Mini Game v9: Lover's Quarrel Mafia ♡ Game Over - Rise of the Yanderes

Grapefruit21 said:
Okay not much happening other than Rosie getting angry at nothing so here goes.

@Rinto-kun asked me if I was mafia and claimed traitor. I did not respond. They then said to do what I was doing on Ruu. They also placed a vote on Ruu in the thread before removing it. I did not respond.

I initially thought Rinto was trying to bait me into scum claiming. But given Rinto's complete lack of town positive behavior, and the relative weakness of the town investigative role I think having a traitor who doesn't know the team as a third scum makes sense.

Because of this I think we should completely ignore Rinto today, because we can use their vote. If they don't vote as we as town want them to we lynch them tomorrow (unless we find scum for sure). I also think that this means Rinto believes that Ruu is town, though I'm not sure what value this has since they thought I was scum. One more note on Rinto and traitors, one source says that if scum NK's them they become full scum, so if there is no NK we should lynch Rinto tomorrow.

So that paints the game state as follows:
Town
Grape
Mile
Sleip

Claire
Ruu
Kit
Suzu

Phraze
Sonata

Rosie
Lam-b

Rinto

I'm amendable to Phraze or Sonata being lynched but I'd much rather we buckled down and figure which one of Rosie and Lam we are lynching toDay.

Grapefruit21 said:
@Kit Suzu was under my radar D1, but I've been pretty impressed by their D2. As for Claire it's kind of the opposite. Actually that same bit is true for you and Ruu as well. Standing by my D1 reads but you guys can do better.

Ruu said:
@Kit you can't prove you are town in this game because claiming means nothing so I think town and scum would be worry. I wouldn't want to get lynch no matter my alignment.

Oyasumi_Rosie said:
okay but I have though. What do you think about my interaction post on Lam b? Do you agree with me that their post seeming more defensive, which I call sharp in my post.

Kit said:
That's not what I'm saying. Knowing that you ARE town and you ARE telling the truth makes you more confident. You know about how people who lie are more nervous? This is like catching a lie 101, of course it doesn't work on everyone though because some people are more confident as scum (Jack for example, although in a way, he also doesn't play calmly as scum either). I have never felt scared of being lynched (yes I have had trains.. sometimes..) so I'm not surprised if Lamb is calm when he has a train if he's town. Our objective is to find scum, not defend ourselves endlessly

Ruu said:


tbh I got scared after a small train was form on me when we were still on RVS xDD and I was town and I soft claim after panicking (obvs I died N1 lol)

Ruu said:
My townread on Claire is getting weaker because of my chat with my D2 lover... I'll wait for them to clarify that but she is going back to neutral/possible scum on my list
Also, after following grape's advise of PoV Phraze/Lamb I'll take a leap of faith and change my vote. I'm hoping this isn't a terrible mistake...

vote change: lamb

Grapefruit21 said:
@Kit I'll work on my town reads, but it will be a while to make the cases again. My notes have gotten lazy while I've been hashing out the Rinto claim.

Kit said:
Huh, what game was that? Tis the season? XD
What about as scum, would you say you are calmer when you are scum and have a train on you?

Kit said:
Can you explain your PoV analysis that lead you to hop on lamb train?

Oyasumi_Rosie said:

Yes. Of course. I didn't even start to see scum till I noticed a weird pattern in the VC D1.

Grapefruit21 said:

I've said it before but defensive scum. Because I can't read you I'm pursuing other reads first. More than happy to consolidate on you if I can't get the lam-b lynch through though.

Also I think I've decided I believe the traitor claim from D1 lover chat. Want to wait and hear back from my D2 lover before divulging who it is though. Reason is I don't believe this person would think they could fool me with that claim into claiming mafia. Plus they floated a possibly unrelated but very strange follow up play when I didn't respond, and acted on it in the thread.

I want opinions on what a traitor would mean for game balance and what town response should be before I say who it is. Because I have a strong opinion on it but want to see others before coloring it with my judgment.

Grapefruit21 said:
@Ruu having confirmed scum doesn't help with our analysis if they don't know the scum team. Which was the claim they made to me asking if I was scum.

Town can have different reads. Claire's defense of Lam-b seems reasonable. I don't agree with it, but I think I'm looking at the lying thing from a different angle to claire.

@_Claire_ Can you do the same exercise I had Ruu do: run through the Phraze/Lam-b lying dichotomy for each player from each alignment and explain their motivations from each side.

Ruu said:


yes but knowing a confirmed scum helps us with our analysis. The lying part is the only think that makes me think they might be town but I can go on just that. Everything else seems scummy to me. I might change my vote to lamby but for now I'm happy with my choice.

I was townreading Claire but after her defense of lamb I'm having second thoughts, what do you think?

Suzune-chan said:
Honestly, I do not see why you are mad. There is no reason for anyone to be angry here. I am a bit perplexed you want to keep talking about it because had to let it die, I would not have responded back. If you ping me I will always respond that is how I play. Let it die.

_Claire_ said:

Alright.

I just wish you werent so defensive when other players are questioning you.
It makes me feel bitter.


This is my first time seeing a game with "traitor" I dont even understand what it exactly means.
A scum becoming town secretly? A town becoming scum secretly? 3rd party? But this game is not a role madness so I am unsure.


Alright

You guys never play with Lamby before?

I will tell you guys a few times when he did almost nothing: in one of my earlier basic mafia. He lied saying he was a cop (the true cop did not try to deny him/ believe there can be more than one cop as his is one shot). He said Chione was scum and caught mechanically. Chione lynched, she was scum. At night Lamby was dead but he was a vanilla townie. An incredible move imo, he was so convincing to both town and scum. It helps town a lot as afterwards it was clear who was scum (not enough to win sadly, due to my scummy game play people tend to distrust me at the end of the game aka PoE. I was town). Also it was a great move as the true cop did not need to come out.

So what I am thinking here based on Lamby being a liar in this game because thats how he plays (Pentaflare and Denjax are another two players who lie to hell regardless of their alignment):Lamby was Phraze's day 1 lover. Lamby told her his flavour/something else. Phraze said she was the lover. Lamby, who obviously didnt want people to know who was his lover (or else why would he be so incredibly vague about it..) denied it. The fact Phraze did not try to fight further told me that Lamby was telling her to shut up and not bring it further. I dont think this is alignment indicative, but I hardly can see both of them are scums. Both towns or one town one scum. The later seems more likely.

This does not tell their alignment, but Lying =/= scum. Town lies too. Scum lies too.
I think you guys are overthinking -- it seems normal for me. Lamby was scum once but he was so passive and lurking.. but he said he was busy at that time and nobody questioned the truth. He was lynched PoE.

Ruu said:
Okay following grape's advice I thought about Phraze/Lamb.

If we think this from Phraze's pov I think she would gain nothing from saying lamb was her D1 lover. She could be discredit inmediately by her actual partner, lamb and lamb's real lover.
Now from Lamb's pov he made Phraze look like a liar, generate confusion and shift the spotlight from him to her (at least I thin that was what he was trying). Also he hinted that he had a pr and that he gave it to his lover. But we have no way to make sure that's true because his lover won't confirm it (if that said lover really exist)
If lamb was town he would be doing something similar to grape's trap to sleip. But I think that by now he would have said he was lying and just testing Phraze...

Kit said:
I think you guys are wasting effort arguing about it but I don't see anyone else doing anything

So obvious you were voting for grape for your "good luck charm" then just didn't bother moving it. Town can do it, scum can do it. I'd like to see someone's reasons for thinking you're scum over it. But I'd like to see you doing something other than defending yourself today

Grapefruit21 said:

But it's one we shouldn't lynch till last because they can't kill or communicate. So leaving them alive till we have to lynch scum is reasonable if we're lynching the useful scum. Plus with their voting we'll get hints unless they vote pure town block or go full lurk.

As for Phraze I think they are town because I can't see their scum motivation for lying in their half of the Lam-b/Phraze lying dichotomy. Lam-b's is easy knowing a PR and them staying alive makes them appear town. I can't figure out why town Lam-b would do what they did though because it gives scum so much PR info because they can POE lover chat's that were claimed and they were in to hunt the PR.

Suzune-chan said:
Honestly, I do not see why you are mad. There is no reason for anyone to be angry here. I am a bit perplexed you want to keep talking about it because had to let it die, I would not have responded back. If you ping me I will always respond that is how I play. Let it die.

Kit said:
Hmm.. this post doesn't explain why you townread them (claire and suzu). All I can remember them doing is actively posting, and scum can do that. And both of them are heckling rosie for something that is hardly even AI imo. Though I guess Sleip did that too. I can't really blame rosie for getting upset when people are on her for the same thing over and over agian. And town sometimes look scummier than scum.

Ruu said:
My townread on Claire is getting weaker because of my chat with my D2 lover... I'll wait for them to clarify that but she is going back to neutral/possible scum on my list
Also, after following grape's advise of PoV Phraze/Lamb I'll take a leap of faith and change my vote. I'm hoping this isn't a terrible mistake...

vote change: lamb

Kit said:

https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1592503&show=450#msg49731844
no post links/10
Dunno what "negative" is supposed to mean, we're catching scum not people you don't like the looks of. How do you have no positives?
I also don't really think he seemed super defensive, do you have specific examples of defensiveness?
You and your neighbor could just be confirming each other's biases making your tunnel stronger =v

edit: ok this is an "interaction" analysis actually so i see why he would have no positives.. i think. lol

_Claire_ said:

I think what Suzune said is on spot for me too, I guess the way I say it is wrong or sth, but Suzune says what I think also. The fact that everybody gives up on her-- is pissing me off too :/ I cant read Rinto but that does not mean I stop figuring things out.

Ruu said:


nop. I'm a scared cat no matter my alignment xDD

Ruu said:


https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1592503&show=500#msg49735388

_Claire_ said:

This is my first time seeing a game with "traitor" I dont even understand what it exactly means.
A scum becoming town secretly? A town becoming scum secretly? 3rd party? But this game is not a role madness so I am unsure.

Alright

You guys never play with Lamby before?

I will tell you guys a few times when he did almost nothing: in one of my earlier basic mafia. He lied saying he was a cop (the true cop did not try to deny him/ believe there can be more than one cop as his is one shot). He said Chione was scum and caught mechanically. Chione lynched, she was scum. At night Lamby was dead but he was a vanilla townie. An incredible move imo, he was so convincing to both town and scum. It helps town a lot as afterwards it was clear who was scum (not enough to win sadly, due to my scummy game play people tend to distrust me at the end of the game aka PoE. I was town). Also it was a great move as the true cop did not need to come out.

So what I am thinking here based on Lamby being a liar in this game because thats how he plays (Pentaflare and Denjax are another two players who lie to hell regardless of their alignment):Lamby was Phraze's day 1 lover. Lamby told her his flavour/something else. Phraze said she was the lover. Lamby, who obviously didnt want people to know who was his lover (or else why would he be so incredibly vague about it..) denied it. The fact Phraze did not try to fight further told me that Lamby was telling her to shut up and not bring it further. I dont think this is alignment indicative, but I hardly can see both of them are scums. Both towns or one town one scum. The later seems more likely.

This does not tell their alignment, but Lying =/= scum. Town lies too. Scum lies too.
I think you guys are overthinking -- it seems normal for me. Lamby was scum once but he was so passive and lurking.. but he said he was busy at that time and nobody questioned the truth. He was lynched PoE.

Lam-B said:


Half or so of this makes sense, minus swinging votes and labeling it a "leap of faith" why not aim to lynch scum instead?
Though it means less coming from myself personally, yes you are making a mistake with this post ^^

Ruu said:


I'm aiming for that lamb. I know one of you is scum. At.first I went with Phraze but after thinking why would either one of you lie you started to look scummier than Phraze.
At.this point if you don't show your cards you are gonna get lynch. If you are town that's not good for us so you should try to fight the lynch a little bit more. Why don't you follow grape's example he confess it was a lie and give motives for it. Do the same and if I'm convince I'll change my vote.

Kit said:
From what I understand, they are mafia-affiliated but do not have access to mafia club and do not have a night kill

I agree with this.. In my short history of mafia I see town lie often. I don't get why people are jumping on him for lying. It's even weirder for Phraze to not lie as town, so...

Ruu said:


I'm aiming for that lamb. I know one of you is scum. At.first I went with Phraze but after thinking why would either one of you lie you started to look scummier than Phraze.
At.this point if you don't show your cards you are gonna get lynch. If you are town that's not good for us so you should try to fight the lynch a little bit more. Why don't you follow grape's example he confess it was a lie and give motives for it. Do the same and if I'm convince I'll change my vote.

Kit said:
he already confessed
https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1592503&show=550#msg49742527

Ruu said:


I'm aiming for that lamb. I know one of you is scum. At.first I went with Phraze but after thinking why would either one of you lie you started to look scummier than Phraze.
At.this point if you don't show your cards you are gonna get lynch. If you are town that's not good for us so you should try to fight the lynch a little bit more. Why don't you follow grape's example he confess it was a lie and give motives for it. Do the same and if I'm convince I'll change my vote.

Ruu said:


That's his confession? @Lam-B what information did you gain with that lie?

Lam-B said:


That much had already been covered....
It was for the most part to reel in a seemingly easy lynch case and who would do what with it, most notable was Rosie's lazily and badly thrown together "reason" which was also fairly late and not what they were originally putting together if I recall.
Though I can't take credit for this part as I already expected much more bite come D2, I also got a better feel for Suzu within those rough grounds as they're usually someone I need to push or pull in and have an easier time reading into outside of D1.
Also it was there to fuhk with the following/D2 lovers perspective and what I could rip out of them in the private group chat and whether or not they'd throw me to the wolves for easy prophet.... though that end of things isn't public, I am for the most part pleased with that.

_Claire_ said:
What do you think? At the moment I am leaning to Phraze being scum, also she has been playing carefully, unlike the last one.

Kit said:
Not sure why you want my opinion on this when it's practically the only thing I've been going on about all day but I think Phraze is scum because she is playing too carefully compared to what she would normally do and I think Lamb is town because he seems to be trying to solve the game in his own way. I think you are right about the interaction but I'm not sure what the purpose of it was.

_Claire_ said:

Lamb just wants reaction, I suppose if I get his post correct.

Ruu said:


So at the end of the day is Phraze scum or town to you?

Sonata said:
So, who is lying then, lamb or phraze?

Catching up.

Oyasumi_Rosie said:
Hmm nobody post anything new...

What do all ya'll think about what me and Claire were talking about? Am I over defensive scum or is Claire looking for problems where they don't exist?

_Claire_ said:

Please disregard my last sentence.
I am confusing the two games.

Anyway this is what I want to try to say:

You say you voted for grapefruit.
You didnt change your vote because nobody else was scummy enough.

My point is...
Why not vote someone who is leaning towards scummy rather than staying on Grape? Yes I know you said you havent scum-read anyone. Right? But Why not change your vote, pretty sure you didnt think everyone was equally neutral?

Suzune-chan said:
Personal thought:

This is abridged from the last time I saw it but I edited it for simpleness.
I do not understand why we get away with saying things like this. As if this statement says something about the game state. Instead, I would much rather see us discuss what they are like right now as opposed to trying to meta read everyone. It is the desire to meta read people that causes comments like this. I will get off my soapbox now.

I have a controversial opinion to this. You can hate me for it, it is fine, I have been criticized for it in other games. Each game is individual. Each moment of each game is that's own. While it might parody a moment from another no situation is exactly the same. Therefore, handwaving something by saying it is like this, or it is the same as that creates a bias. I care not if you are a new player or an old player. I will judge the game based on what has been said in this game using only a little reference from old games as possible. Therefore, because you said something that suggested scum I will push it everytime.

Lam-B said:


That much had already been covered....
It was for the most part to reel in a seemingly easy lynch case and who would do what with it, most notable was Rosie's lazily and badly thrown together "reason" which was also fairly late and not what they were originally putting together if I recall.
Though I can't take credit for this part as I already expected much more bite come D2, I also got a better feel for Suzu within those rough grounds as they're usually someone I need to push or pull in and have an easier time reading into outside of D1.
Also it was there to fuhk with the following/D2 lovers perspective and what I could rip out of them in the private group chat and whether or not they'd throw me to the wolves for easy prophet.... though that end of things isn't public, I am for the most part pleased with that.

Sonata said:




I think she's looking for problem where they don't exist. I'm leaning towards Claire scum tbh. You just said in the post that you didn't have any stronger scum read that day, and she's literally asking if you didn't. Probably wants you to slip up. Unless I am misunderstanding things of course.

I am sorry, but I'm pretty sure you knew what I meant when I said that. Lamb, and the way he passive-agressively expresses himself in his posts, are akin to what I'd call a cop thug irl. He attempts to irritate everyone he questions, repeteadly, and it's impossible to fully know whether he does that for the interests of the town or not. Like, for example, this game. He thrives in chaos, which I personally think benefits mafia more than town 100% of the time, but he plays like this regardless of his alignment every game that I remember of him, that is why I find it hard to describe it in any other way. Case in point: his admitting to his lie this game. Which I find as an attempt to get pressure off him now that he's under serious lynch threat, after it backfired, only to get some "data" that he hasn't shared.



@lam-B which 5 players, who is your lover, what did your lying and wasting the town's time tell you? Are you aware of the confussion you've stirred, with everything we read that has happened since your lie being a twisted depiction of reality and interactions based around a lie that only the mafia could know the falsehood of?

Vote: lam-B

@Grapefruit21 worry not, I think I'll be way past the minimum come night phase.