| That Mashu tho. You will never have a kouhai like her. |
| Here's a higher quality version. Also, EGOIST's full OP got released today. The cover for the album was illustrated by Konoe himself.  |
astroprogsJul 15, 2017 12:54 PM
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My Queens  |
| You guys cant imagine how many retards go around spoiling Amakusa's identity twist. What is wrong with these peopl?e |
| Welcome to the interwebz. |
| Is it me or the salt and "hate" for F/A is decreasing ? as well as score ? even comments are decreasing per episode... @ssjokg doesn't matter they still thinks he's Shirou from Stay Night, and can't understand what he's doing in Apo. |
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| Probaly "haters" saw that even Fate fans dont really care. oooor the lack of ginger kid makes it har dto talk shit about it, dunno. |
Swagernator said: Is it me or the salt and "hate" for F/A is decreasing ? as well as score ? even comments are decreasing per episode... @ssjokg doesn't matter they still thinks he is Shirou from Stay Night. "That Shirou isnt the Emiya from Stay Night" Only if they overthink about it and say"Hm yeah since he is a Kotomine now he cant be like Emiya Shirou" |
| Nasuverse can easily be renamed to "Shirouverse" cuz there is so fucking many of them lol. |
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| That's why you don't debate them or even engage. If they show no ounce of willingness to engage in a debate where both sides are open minded then don't bother. Battle of "my opinion or bias is better than yours" is a waste of time, sanity and brain cells. Reminds me of a moment I had a few hours ago on Guild Wars 2. New person in party: u watch anime? wats ur fav? Me: I really like fate person: hisss u watch that crap? king arthur is a girl LOL watch something better like madoka! Me: Ok. -Pretends to be afk for 20mins, then proceeds to not res the new guy or provide support while laughing for the next hour- |
| I summon thee all the Fate fans please tell me what is so "cool" on Kiritsugu, why kids like him so much. He is in the "OP MC" category which irritates me enormously. To understand the "OP MC" category is where MC from Naruto or One piece and all the lame harems belong, that's why i hate it. Why every people put him in the same edgy category why ? why ? he deserve better. |
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Swagernator said: I summon thee all the Fate fans please tell me what is so "cool" on Kiritsugu, why kids like him so much. He is in the "OP MC" category which irritates me enormously. To understand the "OP MC" category is where MC from Naruto or One piece and all the lame harems belong, that's why i hate it. Why every people put him in the same edgy category why ? why ? he deserve better. Because he's Jack Baur. That's literally it. Kiritsugu isn't even a badly written character. He was written with the idea that these characteristics, while look and feel cool for a character to have, especially when they preach justice as their goal, are what lead him to his miserable end where he, deservedly, lost everything. People just stop at the "Jack Baur" part. Even in their comparison to Shirou they don't stop to think about why F/Z ended the way it ended and just chuck it down for "because Urobuchi likes tragic endings and for his characters to suffer". |
Swagernator said: I summon thee all the Fate fans please tell me what is so "cool" on Kiritsugu, why kids like him so much. I don't have time to collect my thoughts and structure this well but here is my 2 cents on the matter. He is that self insert character that fits what most average people want to be and be viewed as. We gravitate towards winners and those that produce results. We follow what's vocally and visibly popular even though it may have very little to no reason to be, but since everyone is doing it so it must be cool (sheeple effect). He has the coat, he has the attitude, he has fucking guns, the tactical knowledge and can do very little wrong. He has a 'don't give a fuck but secretly does' attitude that guys wish to project to girls to get them wet. I may be such a badass but look, I have flaws too! Wait that's not good enough? Um, oh I treat Saber like shit! Yeah, all you Saber haters, I'm your man, what's so good about her anyway!? Lets trash this overrated bitch together! Western audiences strongly love alpha males as role models. Confidence, resources, experience, a touch of supernatural ability and a easy to understand dark and gritty beginning. Oh hey he's Batman. We love Batman right? If I may make a poor analogy. Shirou is Superman while Kiritsugu is Batman. Guess who of the two is more popular and people verbally jerk off to all the time? Did I mention guns? Fuck yeah m8, I play cod and halo!11! GUN R MIGHTEYY 360 NO SCOPE KEK |
GenkiiJul 21, 2017 3:20 AM
Genkii said: Swagernator said: I summon thee all the Fate fans please tell me what is so "cool" on Kiritsugu, why kids like him so much. I don't have time to collect my thoughts and structure this well but here is my 2 cents on the matter. He is that self insert character that fits what most average people want to be and be viewed as. We gravitate towards winners and those that produce results. We follow what's vocally and visibly popular even though it may have very little to no reason to be, but since everyone is doing it so it must be cool (sheeple effect). He has the coat, he has the attitude, he has fucking guns, the tactical knowledge and can do very little wrong. He has a 'don't give a fuck but secretly does' attitude that guys wish to project to girls to get them wet. I may be such a badass but look, I have flaws too! Wait that's not good enough? Um, oh I treat Saber like shit! Yeah, all you Saber haters, I'm your man, what's so good about her anyway!? Lets trash this overrated bitch together! Western audiences strongly love alpha males as role models. Confidence, resources, experience, a touch of supernatural ability and a easy to understand dark and gritty beginning. Oh hey he's Batman. We love Batman right? If I may make a poor analogy. Shirou is Superman while Kiritsugu is Batman. Guess who of the two is more popular and people verbally jerk off to all the time? Did I mention guns? Fuck yeah m8, I play cod and halo!11! GUN R MIGHTEYY 360 NO SCOPE KEK No Kerry is Punisher while Shirou is Steve Rogers before he became the Captain. But anyway yes, Kerry is a bigger Self insert than FSN Shirou will ever be. |
SabrinaK said: Yeah, as far as character writing goes, I think Iskander is a hell of a lot more overrated than Kiritsugu, who may not be as unique as Shirou but at least has one flawed shade of personality and isn't constantly in “likable mode”. I honestly can't understand the love for Iskandar, myself. Anyone's who's ever lived under a true dictatorial regime IRL would loathe the hell out of this guy with his "inspire by greed" propaganda bullshit. |
astroprogs said: Anyone's who's ever lived under a true dictatorial regime IRL would loathe the hell out of this guy with his "inspire by greed" propaganda bullshit. Well in the Fate version is Iskander portrayed as the "Man chasing his dream to see the ocean". But it's true that he is idealised too much as a hero. |
SwagernatorJul 21, 2017 9:08 AM
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Swagernator said: astroprogs said: Anyone's who's ever lived under a true dictatorial regime IRL would loathe the hell out of this guy with his "inspire by greed" propaganda bullshit. Well in the Fate version is Iskander portrayed as the "Man chasing his dream to see the ocean". But it's true that he is idealised too much as a hero. Which is a shitty desire for a king. His dream should be the welfare of his people, not whatever his own selfish desire is. Chasing your own dreams is great and all, but not when you're responsible for the well-being of literally hundreds of thousands of people. Seriously, such a hypocrite. Between the three kings, Saber is truly the only one with the right to call herself a good Ruler that actually cared for her people. |
astroprogs said: Swagernator said: Well in the Fate version is Iskander portrayed as the "Man chasing his dream to see the ocean". But it's true that he is idealised too much as a hero. Which is a shitty desire for a king. His dream should be the welfare of his people, not whatever his own selfish desire is. Chasing your own dreams is great and all, but not when you're responsible for the well-being of literally hundreds of thousands of people. Seriously, such a hypocrite. Between the three kings, Saber is truly the only one with the right to call herself a good Ruler that actually cared for her people. Gil is also a good ruler or at least would be if he hadnt decided that it would be better to rule by being an ass. For me his Caster version, basically merging his kid and adult characters(called Gil the Wise(by me)) is even better than Saber. |
ssjokg said: astroprogs said: Which is a shitty desire for a king. His dream should be the welfare of his people, not whatever his own selfish desire is. Chasing your own dreams is great and all, but not when you're responsible for the well-being of literally hundreds of thousands of people. Seriously, such a hypocrite. Between the three kings, Saber is truly the only one with the right to call herself a good Ruler that actually cared for her people. Gil is also a good ruler or at least would be if he hadnt decided that it would be better to rule by being an ass. For me his Caster version, basically merging his kid and adult characters(called Gil the Wise(by me)) is even better than Saber. Caster Gil is absolutely better than Saber. Too bad he indeed wasn't who we got in Zero, which is who i meant, but didn't specify. The one we got in Zero and SN doesn't share the same values or even attitude as Caster. There's arrogance, and then there's "let's drink wine and enjoy the view as this worm-guy kills the love of his life". |
astroprogsJul 21, 2017 9:46 AM
Oh Frost pretty much nails it. We're just sick and tired of the generic-frigid-boy-pussy-with-short-brown-hair-and-nerd-glasses-archetypes. Gotta appeal the target Japanese audience sure but it makes it hard for me to enjoy most anime nowadays. I'm looking at you Shota from Re:Creator fffffffff. Save the character development as a flashback or hell just make an interesting and capable mc and give him challenges so we can enjoy the ride. |
| I just take it back to Iskandar. He doesn't need to be a good ruler in a "common" sense. His people (yes those as well) and most importantly soldiers loves him worships him because he is a Conqueror, yeah just like Attila, Caesar they love him because he is winning wars, battles and so expanding imperium/nation/tribe all for his dream to conquer the world (or more idealised, to reach the end of the world - oceanos). Common folk always love when the nation is most powerful in the world, the same goes for ROME and the games in Colosseum. He said to Saber that she rule their knights but she never lead them and that is fucking true. The most treasured Noble phantasm Iskandar have in his possession was the WHOLE army of heroes who fought beside him every battle he won every mountain he cross and that is something saber never have and never will have. The materialized power of friendship. |
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Swagernator said: I just take it back to Iskandar. He doesn't need to be a good ruler in a "common" sense. His people (yes those as well) and most importantly soldiers loves him worships him because he is a Conqueror >Implying Artoria's people didn't love her He said to Saber that she rule their knights but she never lead them and that is fucking true. The most treasured Noble phantasm Iskandar have in his possession was the WHOLE army of heroes who fought beside him every battle he won every mountain he cross and that is something saber never have and never will have. The materialized power of friendship. I don't know what to say to you.... So I'll let Zero do it instead. :) Artoria's NP IS the crystallisation of all that. And it's far more powerful than Ionian Hetairoi has been and will ever be. Anti-Army NPs+ > Reality Marbles. Also, she's a ruler, not a leader. Iskander only leading his people is the exact reason why his kingdom collapsed after his death. Artoria's shortcoming was still the king and country not connecting thing. But even if she had gotten that right, Britain was destined to fall and all she would be doing is postponing the end. |
mira-pyonJul 23, 2017 7:53 AM
The sun is a deadly laser |
mira-pyon said: -Implying Artoria's people didn't love her -Artoria's NP IS the crystallisation of all that. And it's far more powerful than Ionian Hetairoi First of all i never was implying that Artoria's people didn't love her. Second i never said that Iskandar NP is more powerful. I know my shit well. And finally the last: The 50k army of heroes who answer call of their leader is truly something magnificent - and sorry but no saber have nothing like that. She is a "lonely king". She "rule" her country to the civil war and ultimately to destruction... |
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Swagernator said: mira-pyon said: -Implying Artoria's people didn't love her -Artoria's NP IS the crystallisation of all that. And it's far more powerful than Ionian Hetairoi First of all i never was implying that Artoria's people didn't love her. Second i never said that Iskandar NP is more powerful. I know my shit well. Well that's just what it seemed like you were implying. ¯_(ツ)_/¯ And finally the last: The 50k army of heroes who answer call of their leader is truly something magnificent - and sorry but no saber have nothing like that. She is a "lonely king". She "rule" her country to the civil war and ultimately to destruction... I didn't say she could have her army actually appear - her army isn't central to her character in the way it is to Alex, she only fought 12 battles. However, she does have the 'materialised power of friendship' or in her case loyalty, trust, their ideals, whatever. She didn't 'rule' her country to civil war nor to its destruction, though. The country did that itself. What Artoria did was attempt to postpone that. What she did was rule her country away from destruction, only for it to turn its head away and for fate to ultimately fuck everything up. There is definitely the element of her not being the best king, however, best king or not, Britain was done for. Artoria's kingship can't really be compared with Iskander's. Hers was dictated by fate, luck and magic and human error barely even registers in the grand scale of things. Iskander's was relatively based on pure 'humans being human'. Also, where did you get that '50k' number from? At best, all I can find is 15k and everything is less than 5k. |
mira-pyonJul 23, 2017 8:21 AM
The sun is a deadly laser |
mira-pyon said: Artoria's kingship can't really be compared with Iskander's. Hers was dictated by fate, luck and magic and human error barely even registers in the grand scale of things. Iskander's was relatively based on pure 'humans being human'. This sums things pretty well :) |
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Swagernator said: mira-pyon said: Artoria's kingship can't really be compared with Iskander's. Hers was dictated by fate, luck and magic and human error barely even registers in the grand scale of things. Iskander's was relatively based on pure 'humans being human'. This sums things pretty well :) Well then, what even is this discussion. >3> Dammit, my tea is cold now. |
The sun is a deadly laser |
| The problem with Alex(and the narrative) is that his enemies,including the peasants that didnt follow him, were slaughtered, enslaved and humiliated. It is ONLY those that followed him that he and the narrative talks about.The rest are history nobody mentions. Saber on the other hand had the Round Table and both her and the narrative actually mention the problems in it. And even with that bias, it is with her old comrades that we actually see that even among all that hatred, treason and hardship, her knights actually still respected her, even the Knight of Treason. |
mira-pyon said: Also, where did you get that '50k' number from? At best, all I can find is 15k and everything is less than 5k. I was referring to the original size of army in the battle of gaugamela. |
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SabrinaK said: 100% agreed. First of all, there's a difference between conquering and ruling and secondly, "kings should laugh harder and dream bigger than everyone else, I am a hero because I am a tyrant, look at all the soldiers I inspired har har" - yeah, and what about the common folk and starving citizens who I'm pretty sure gave no fucks about your desire for glory and whatnot? Both him and Saber had clearly flawed ideologies in that banquet in Zero, but somehow every discussion about it I've seen has the majority praising the fuck out of Iskander while trashing Saber. Though, again, the main reason for that is probably since Rider was made out to be fun and badass (flexing his muscles, helping Waver, etc), but even as a character and not as a king, I still ended up finding him uninteresting and honestly didn't care when he died lol. Yup. You pretty much have the exact same opinion of him and the entire "Banquet of Kings" scene as me. astroprogs said: FIFY ;D Also, with regards to Caster Gil - the best part is his dialogue, half of which consists of him (hilariously) trying to justify being a lowly Caster. "What? Was Gilgamesh a Magus in life, you ask? Fuhahaha! Fool! I would have never stooped so low as to be a mere Magus!" "I stated as much during the summoning ritual. I summoned myself, mongrel. In this form ― the class of Caster." "You wish to know why I am playing at being a Magus? I shall tell you and you alone. This is an act of spite. You may instead call it ridicule, if you so desire. Still, this form offers a modicum of enjoyment in its own way." (tl;dr to troll Solomon) "Caster, Gilgamesh. I have taken this form in response to the crisis threatening Uruk. I did not heed your summons. Do not think too highly of yourself, mongrel." Original tsundere. True. It's still pretty sick, but for slightly different reason, yeah. Well, apparently the people who have played CCC all agree that Gil's true Tsundere nature is at its best there. He's truly 2/3rd god Tsun. Swagernator said: I just take it back to Iskandar. He doesn't need to be a good ruler in a "common" sense. His people (yes those as well) and most importantly soldiers loves him worships him because he is a Conqueror, yeah just like Attila, Caesar they love him because he is winning wars, battles and so expanding imperium/nation/tribe all for his dream to conquer the world (or more idealised, to reach the end of the world - oceanos). Common folk always love when the nation is most powerful in the world, the same goes for ROME and the games in Colosseum. He said to Saber that she rule their knights but she never lead them and that is fucking true. The most treasured Noble phantasm Iskandar have in his possession was the WHOLE army of heroes who fought beside him every battle he won every mountain he cross and that is something saber never have and never will have. The materialized power of friendship. Pretty sure his people were never in the picture, it's all his army and their own personal glory as "the army of conquerors". I remember having a similar discussion to this at the time UBW was airing. What i said then feels appropriate now still. If you also click on the source of the quote, you'll be linked to the rest of the discussion. Frostbite_ said: I mainly like Kiritsugu because he doesn't act like a fucking idiot all the time. I feel kind of sad when a character who is competent at fighting beyond "MY FRIENDS ARE MY POWER" is considered OP by anime standards (I'd agree on the origin shot, of course, but beyond it...) and that these kind of characters are so rare. That's fair. Anime is absolutely saturated with dense idiotic MCs and any change from that always feels good. My beef with some people's perception of him is that it's almost always: "He's a cool competent adult, therefore he's a good character. Shirou is an idealistic novice teenager with a romance sub-plot, therefore he's a bad character." |
astroprogsJul 23, 2017 2:43 PM
| @astroprogs ou yeah let's read 1000+ comment old thread full of Fate salt... Sorry but in my eyes will Iskandar be always "better" king/ruler/leader than Saber. The glory of his conquest will never be forgotten. Also im pretty sure if we are speaking about common people there were major differences of common life in Britain and In Macedonia. Both also completely in different times. |
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Swagernator said: @astroprogs ou yeah let's read 1000+ comment old thread full of Fate salt... Sorry but in my eyes will Iskandar be always "better" king/ruler/leader than Saber. The glory of his conquest will never be forgotten. Also im pretty sure if we are speaking about common people there were major differences of common life in Britain and In Macedonia. Both also completely in different times. Hey, there are like 4 entire posts completely void of salt in that thread. Seriosuly though, that particular dscussion is like a couple of pages at most, not the entire thread. Pretty sure human nature is the same, no matter the age or culture. People would always look for their own well-being before caring for the "Kingdom's Glory™". It's fine if you like him as a fictional character, but actually consider living under him if you were a commoner and a peasant. I'm sure you'll be more concerned with what you'll be feeding your family, protecting your home made of straws and mud and paying taxes more than whatever the king is doing in a far away land you'll never see or benefit from conquering. Priorities differ when you're poor, like the vast majority of people at the time. |
astroprogs said: but actually consider living under him if you were a commoner and a peasant. Well that's exactly why... commoners and peasants can reach wealth and glory trough conquest, (everyone can enter army) thats the reason those 50k heroes follow him to the borders of India (at least in Fate version). Give me your strength and i'll give you world. |
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Frostbite_ said: You have a really weird idea of the way monarchies distributed loot. Eh ? "(at least in Fate version)" nothing eh ? ok.. |
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Swagernator said: astroprogs said: but actually consider living under him if you were a commoner and a peasant. Well that's exactly why... commoners and peasants can reach wealth and glory trough conquest, (everyone can enter army) thats the reason those 50k heroes follow him to the borders of India (at least in Fate version). Give me your strength and i'll give you world. So, you're saying that Iskandar's answer to the peasant's miserable life is... joining the army? Worst. Ruler. Ever. What about those who aren't in the army and just want a normal life? What about the 95% of people? What about those who don't have a king to listen to them or even be aware of their problems because he's on the other side of the world? |
astroprogs said: What about those who aren't in the army and just want a normal life? What about the 95% of people? What about those who don't have a king to listen to them or even be aware of their problems because he's on the other side of the world? *sigh* Well i guess there are people who maintain Kingdom while he's conquering ? maybe ? To be a good king doesn't necessarily mean to turn back the whole god damn army for a whimp of a peasant. |
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| Suppose I'll torrent ep 4 of fate/apo. I don't normally torrent things thanks to my potato internet, but a man has to watch his fate anime someway. |
My Queens |
| The subs were pretty late for this episode. Not complaining just sayin. |
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SabrinaK said: I'm pretty sure there would be a significant amount of peasants who would take issue with the fact SabrinaK said: Bruh, I don’t know about you, but living a shitty soldier’s life in which I’d probably die an early death SabrinaK said: said about monarchical loot distribution. 1. They are peasants the don't have right to have "take issue". Different age. 2. And yet decades over decades young men enter armies because of ?... 3. Swagernator said: Eh ? "(at least in Fate version)" nothing eh ? ok.. |
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| Thats why is this whole discussion from the start to the end about Iskandar completely pointless. At the end it is the matter of opinion rather than facts. |
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| Υou are a comparing a king that was acting like a general with someone who was acting like a king in everything. Alex is better than Saber in leading armies. Saber is better at leading the whole country. Still wondering who is tge best king? |
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