"Prisma☆Illya: Oath Under Snow" Comptiq Scans      I-It's finally here, guys.  |
astroprogsJul 7, 2017 8:59 AM
| I'm not sure if I'm more hyped for this or Heaven's Feel Part I. Probably this because we can get all the GAR in one movie. And because it's Heaven's Feel done better |
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| I see that the hate of Apo is as retarded as it can get, juts like with every other Fate. I dont know how you can keep up @astroprogs |
When you are not good enough for Food War so you enter Grail War instead. |
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"Heroic Spirit Gordon Ramsey, here to bring you the first seat of the Elite Ten. I ask of you, are you my master?" |
ssjokg said: I see that the hate of Apo is as retarded as it can get, juts like with every other Fate. I dont know how you can keep up @astroprogs I don't really try to. A bit of free time coinciding with a weird comment results in this. I'm sure as hell ain't gonna keep this up throughout all of the show. KaiserNazrin said: When you are not good enough for Food War so you enter Grail War instead. Nah, that's Hanafuda Shirou.  |
ssjokg said: I see that the hate of Apo is as retarded as it can get, juts like with every other Fate. Hah, I saw a retweet earlier along the lines of: "Omg another Saber, can't they be original!? fuck this shitty franchise." I honestly can't tell if it was satire or not. I seriously can't wait for Fate Last Encore. |
Genkii said: ssjokg said: I see that the hate of Apo is as retarded as it can get, juts like with every other Fate. Hah, I saw a retweet earlier along the lines of: "Omg another Saber, can't they be original!? fuck this shitty franchise." I honestly can't tell if it was satire or not. I seriously can't wait for Fate Last Encore. I ran into some gems from a greek reviewer about Shirou... >ends up being the strongest character with little training. >He wasnt training because he was lazy and only did it when Rin told him to >Could face Kuzuki one to one >Same for Servants like Archer and Gil >downplays the importance of Servants and make Saber look weak >Not even his father who was both a truly capable and strong character, did that. >The story doesnt try or can to explain all of this. >Even the excuse that he got it from his father is bs since he was adopted. |
I whole heartedly agree with his sentiments. I still feel a powerful sense of nostalgia when looking through DEEN stay night's visual and music even though at times I still get pissed off about how it diverged a lot towards the second half of the anime. Or glossed over VERY important plot points (eg; Saber not being a true Servant). As for which to introduce newcomers first to, while I strongly agree with his points I went with Zero first for my friends as it perfectly covers introducing and establishing the lore and universe of the franchise. It easily eased them in, made them love the characters and plot, told the whole narrative plus conclusion (no, 'I wonder who that Archer guy is that died fighting Heracles?) and wasn't a convoluted piece of 3. Edit: ahhh lordy, reading the comments, I've forgotten about the cancerous fans that Zero brought in... |
GenkiiJul 9, 2017 7:33 AM
| While I agree with him, I dont see the point of watching Zero after Deen/Night, since it spoils HF. If you are watching Deen in order to avoid spoilers in Zero then what is the point? |
ssjokgJul 9, 2017 8:51 AM
ssjokg said: Whiel I agree with hime, I dont see the point of watching Zero after Deen/Night, since it spoils HF. If you are watching Deen in order to avoid spoilers in Zero then what is the point? Pretty much. I was like "Okay, okay, okay, yep, I agree, eh but i can see your point, yeah, yep, ok, ...........wait, what?" |
| I am going with Zero->UBW recs from now on. ufoUBw flows much better when you can draw parallels with Zero. |
| any of you can pm me if they know a site to direct dll fate/apocrypha pls? cant use torrent |
| bruh |
Genkii said: I whole heartedly agree with his sentiments. I still feel a powerful sense of nostalgia when looking through DEEN stay night's visual and music even though at times I still get pissed off about how it diverged a lot towards the second half of the anime. Or glossed over VERY important plot points (eg; Saber not being a true Servant). As for which to introduce newcomers first to, while I strongly agree with his points I went with Zero first for my friends as it perfectly covers introducing and establishing the lore and universe of the franchise. It easily eased them in, made them love the characters and plot, told the whole narrative plus conclusion (no, 'I wonder who that Archer guy is that died fighting Heracles?) and wasn't a convoluted piece of 3. Edit: ahhh lordy, reading the comments, I've forgotten about the cancerous fans that Zero brought in... "Just read the VN you casuals." |
Genkii said: (no, 'I wonder who that Archer guy is that died fighting Heracles?) Literally what? Come on, Gen, that's exactly what you're supposed to ask after that scene. It's called "mystery". You're not supposed to get all the answers after the first third of the story. ssjokg said: I am going with Zero->UBW recs from now on. ufoUBw flows much better when you can draw parallels with Zero. I'll never ever do that. Ruining HF's reveals is just not alright in my book. kei78 said: any of you can pm me if they know a site to direct dll fate/apocrypha pls? cant use torrent Google "kissanime fate apocrypha". |
astroprogs said: Genkii said: (no, 'I wonder who that Archer guy is that died fighting Heracles?) Literally what? Come on, Gen, that's exactly what you're supposed to ask after that scene. It's called "mystery". You're not supposed to get all the answers after the first third of the story. What? I'm talking about a first time anime experience for a casual who more or less wants a complete package experience that doesn't require outside materials to fill the gap. Zero is where is at if you want to win over people into your franchise. Which it obviously did. It told a complete story. All the casuals in every fate YouTube videos are a testament to this. |
| I will just treat the reveals in HF as tragedy that we know but the characters arent aware of. The narrative of Zero-SN was ruined the moment Ufo/aniplex decided to start with Zero. They could have fixed that a bit by starting with Fate, but they decided to "recognize" the Deen anime. |
Genkii said: Which it obviously did. It told a complete story. Final 2 episodes say Hi~~. |
Genkii said: astroprogs said: Literally what? Come on, Gen, that's exactly what you're supposed to ask after that scene. It's called "mystery". You're not supposed to get all the answers after the first third of the story. What? I'm talking about a first time anime experience for a casual who more or less wants a complete package experience that doesn't require outside materials to fill the gap. Zero is where is at if you want to win over people into your franchise. Which it obviously did. It told a complete story. The complete package is F/SN, not the first route. UBW is already an anime and HF is coming soon, so no outside materials are required. Zero is NOT a complete package too, so there's that to consider on top of spoiling F/SN. F/SN is multiple parts. It's narrative structure is better because of it, not worse. Also, about winning people into the franchise, i hope you're ready for all the people with the wrong expectations completely shitting on F/SN for obvious reasons. The advantage of starting with F/SN is that it sets what it's to be expected from the franchise. ssjokg said: I will just treat the reveals in HF as tragedy that we know but the characters arent aware of. The narrative of Zero-SN was ruined the moment Ufo/aniplex decided to start with Zero. They could have fixed that a bit by starting with Fate, but they decided to "recognize" the Deen anime. And HF is way worse for it, if you do that. Yes, Aniplex's decision is crappy beyond belief and reading the VN is the best course of action, but I'll never be alright with ruining HF's intended experience. That route is way too special to be treated this way. |
| Whooa Astro, you're getting too technical with this and looking at this with a high standard. The elitism shows itself here. The goal was originally here but you seem to have moved it elsewhere. This is precisely why the outside folks and casuals frown on the convoluteness of the fate franchise and us. While I'm sure you'd argue the convoluted structure IS its appeal (it definitely is) it makes it difficult for newcomers. Zero makes the best first impression and introduction and that's an undeniable fact. Come on guys, when I say complete package I meant one story. Not 3 different incomplete stories that complement off each other. >Zero tells it's own story and sets up the plot for FSN. -Simple [Easy mode] V >Fate doesn't address the bigger picture. >UBW doesn't address the greater grail in its entirety BUT does in another source material. >HF will skip all the introductions required knowledge and skip straight to the killing indescriminately. After cooking. V >Fate prototype >Prisma >Prisma movie >Grand Order >Apocrypha >Last Encore IF >Strange fake >Prototype prequel >Hollow Ataraxia anime >Extella anime = Big mess. [Hard mode] And that's not including side stories like Garden of Avalon. Have fun explaining the order and not overwhelm newcomers when this all come into fruition. Also, about winning people into the franchise, i hope you're ready for all the people with the wrong expectations completely shitting on F/SN for obvious reasons. Oh god that reminded me of all the discussions about how Zero should have had its own ending and free itself from the shackles of FSN. Fucking kek. Where is the bleach... |
GenkiiJul 9, 2017 2:44 PM
Genkii said: Whooa Astro, you're getting too technical with this and looking at it with a high standard. The elitism shows itself here. The goal is right here but you seem to have moved it elsewhere. This is precisely why the outside folks and casuals frown on the convoluteness of the fate franchise and us. While I'm sure you'd argue the convoluted structure IS its appeal (it definitely is) it makes it difficult for newcommers. Zero makes the best first impression and that's an undeniable fact. Come on guys, when I say complete package I meant one story. Not 3 different incomplete stories that complement off each other with 'what ifs'. Fate works perfectly for this. Heck, people even complain about how simple it is. Fate is the route that gets you hooked with the premise, female King Arthur and maybe a cool twist by the end. If you like what you see, you go to UBW where you realize that things aren't like what the initially seemed, so you get even more hooked and go for HF that completely changes your prespective you though was solid for solid two routes. Zero gives you none of the above and uses what F/SN worked for 3 entire routes to build up to as it's hook, making all that build uo in F/SN way less impactful. You do NOT need Zero to hook you in. F/SN has plenty of that. Heck, even starting with UBW, which isn't a perfect starting point either, is plenty interesting. And about F/SN being "3 different incomplete stories that complement off each other", every route is conclusive, story wise. You can be completely satisfied after Fate or Fate&UBW and call it a day because you don't know about all the other parts of the story. They're incomplete on their own only when you have the big picture after HF or when you forcefully put Zero in that picture. >Zero tells it's own story and sets up the plot for FSN. -Simple [Easy mode] No, Zero tells a story you aren't supposed to know going into F/SN and F/SN spends three routes gradually revealing it bit by bit. F/SN is the one truly standalone work in the entire franchise. It doesn't Zero to set any plot for it. Genkii said: Have fun explaining the order and not overwhelm newcomers when this all come into fruition. Easy. Fate > UBW > HF > literally wherever you wanna go, it doesn't matter. |
astroprogsJul 9, 2017 2:49 PM
| Oh dear. I know when to concede. |
| "There's no miracle...." "There's no hope...." "My ideals dissolve into the darkness..." "Even so..." "I'm still here!!!" |
 I love Melonpan and all but HAH. I'm glad this ignorance is still prevailing. |
Genkii said: "There's no miracle...." "There's no hope...." "My ideals dissolve into the darkness..." "Even so..." "I'm still here!!!" Unlimited Dick-Hard Works. Shame that even after release we'll still have to wait half a year for BDs to actually watch it subbed. |
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| There are only two episodes of F/A out and the cancer in the discussion is atrocious there, better stay out of it. @Genkii - Is beyond me why still people think Zero is best Fate work... damn plebs |
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Swagernator said: There are only two episodes of F/A out and the cancer in the discussion is atrocious there, better stay out of it. @Genkii - Is beyond me why still people think Zero is best Fate work... damn plebs Yeah I'm doing just that myself. Last Encore might be another matter as I'll probably find it hella amusing to troll there. How bad is it? Anyone wanna trouble themselves and post some gems? No naming and shaming. Also just to be clear to everyone, I love the original FSN more than Zero lol. |
Genkii said: Also just to be clear to everyone, I love the original FSN more than Zero lol. You can rest assure you are not the only one, i count myself in as well. |
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Swagernator said: It get seven worse in other thread where people cry about traps, lolis and ecchi.There are only two episodes of F/A out and the cancer in the discussion is atrocious there, better stay out of it. @Genkii - Is beyond me why still people think Zero is best Fate work... damn plebs |
fejita said: yeah how dare someone watch a fate/ title and expect anything other than pandering to degenerate fetishes fuck those guys amirite I don't know how to tell you this, but welcome to modern anime? Complaining about otaku pandering in anime is liking complaining about CG in movies. Yeah, it's nice if it wasn't there that much, but are you really still complaining about it? I honestly believe that if you're sensitive to this type of content, you should probably stop watching anime, for your mental comfort. |
| And this is why I generally do not participate in anime discussions on MAL. I don't like cancer. |
fejita said: astroprogs said: I'm not sure what standards TM has made you set but not every anime is dragged down by that shit and voicing your gripes with something is a natural part of discussion, this cringey circejerk about "lol zerfags xD" and how cancerous people with standards are is pathetic I don't know how to tell you this, but welcome to modern anime? Complaining about otaku pandering in anime is liking complaining about CG in movies. Yeah, it's nice if it wasn't there that much, but are you really still complaining about it? I honestly believe that if you're sensitive to this type of content, you should probably stop watching anime, for your mental comfort. that one guy complaining about the realism of it is definitely wrong, I agree with you there, but people are in the right for calling them out for unnecessary inclusion of fapbait Then FSN and Extra are worse than Apo. i dont see TM fans having issues with those. But anyway, calling them out for one or two characters is one thing, trashing an entire franchise about this is another. |
fejita said: astroprogs said: I'm not sure what standards TM has made you set but not every anime is dragged down by that shit and voicing your gripes with something is a natural part of discussion, this cringey circejerk about "lol zerfags xD" and how cancerous people with standards are is pathetic I don't know how to tell you this, but welcome to modern anime? Complaining about otaku pandering in anime is liking complaining about CG in movies. Yeah, it's nice if it wasn't there that much, but are you really still complaining about it? I honestly believe that if you're sensitive to this type of content, you should probably stop watching anime, for your mental comfort. that one guy complaining about the realism of it is definitely wrong, I agree with you there, but people are in the right for calling them out for unnecessary inclusion of fapbait It's not even about TM's content, it's about anime in general. Even the top rated shows has otaku pandering, see Steins;Gate, Code Geass, Monogatari series and so on. I feel that this preconceived notion that any show that panders and therefore worse for it is really reductive of those shows' quality. The point is that pandering is NOT bad in itself, it's when it affects the narrative or messes with the intended mood is when it becomes a problem. Also, the issue isn't "standards", it's the unchanging preconceptions. Hating a show that has lolis because it has lolis isn't having standards. Hating it because the show isn't well-written or doesn't have a solid narrative is having standards. Finally, and this is a personal preference, if it doesn't add or distract, leave it be. For example, Fran being female doesn't really add anything to the story of Apocrypha, but it doesn't detract because it has a solid narrative backing, so why this should be a problem? fejita said: Edit: what's funnier still is that when someone mentions their disgust at these things, you see an argument like astroprogs just made, "welcome to anime" or "fate has always been like this" the fuck do you expect people to think about the franchise after that If they think that anime or Fate are bad because of things like otaku pandering and how, just by their existence, ruin entire shows, then the assessment of not being able to enjoy 90% of anime would be correct. "Welcome to anime" is accurate and I'm not going to falsely tell anyone that anime doesn't pander, usually in excessive ways, just to get them to not think badly of it. This is what most anime has, and this is a fact, take it or leave it. |
astroprogsJul 11, 2017 9:16 AM
| @fejita Otaku pandering doesn't just mean lolicon pandering. Otaku pandering is just catering to the demographic by using the usual stock archtypes/stock fanservice shots and even forcing it in if needs to be. S;G has a trap and Code Geass shoves Kallen's ass in our face mid-battles. You don't care about these things because in S;G's case this was used as a plot point and CG was so good, none of this mattered, but the fact still remains that this was obviosuly otaku pandering, regardless of narrative justifications. Fanservice is a fact of life in anime, but it's far from what this medium has to offer, so don't just stop at it. I'm not telling them not to voice their tastes and opinions, I'm telling them to look at the entire picture instead of just a single element of it. About Monogatari and I'll use what you said as a base, when someone says that X is outright worse because of pandering, that's not a discussion. They didn't offer anything to discuss. They obviously already has their mind made. When you say that you enjoyed something less because of the pandering, that's fair as that's a personal preference. However, when you say that it's worse for it without even leaving room for discussion, then it's not fair. Something not being your cup of tea doesn't make it worse. Granted, that line is drawn at the actual relevance of this pandering to the narrative itself. Taking the Apocrypha example, saying that you dislike what they did with Jack because you don't like lolis in thongs is fair. Discarding every single thing about her and even refusing to discuss the narrative nuances just from a glimpse at her design, however, isn't. I really REALLY dislike Yuri on Ice, but I'll never say that it's bad due to the Yaoi pandering when the author knew how to cleverly weave it into the narrative. And finally about "hamfisting imo in every sentence" I don't think the people effectively going all "This is disgusting and everyone who doesn't agree is as disgusting, end of discussion" are really that humble about their personal views. Heck, i don't even care about the pandering and yet these comments manage to make me shake my head. > The point of that sentence was to point out that what you're doing is counterproductive if you want these people to explore the rest of Fate and recognise the truly good parts though, not that the idea behind what you said was wrong. Asking people to remain open minded so they don't constantly be put off by the pandering is the opposite of that, if you want them to stay in this medium for long. People who take a look at Passionlip or Meltlilith and completely write off CCC don't need to be told that Fate never had egregious fanservice and otaku pandering because that's obviously not true to their eyes. They need to be told that yes, it exists, but there's much more if you don't make up your opinion based on a picture of a loli in a thong. |
astroprogsJul 11, 2017 11:15 AM
SabrinaK said: astroprogs said: People who take a look at Passionlip or Meltlilith and completely write off CCC Let’s be real though, unlike Frankenstein, Passionlip's character design really is all sorts of what the actual fuck… even for so-called otaku pandering standards lol And I agree. The point is that it shouldn't make me go "I don't care about her backstory because it's all excuses for her to look like this or CCC because it has her and Melt as main characters". |
astroprogsJul 11, 2017 1:57 PM
fejita said: ssjokg said: I'm not sure where you've been for the past 13 years but FSN's sexual content is constantly mocked - rightfully so, and the slight implication of a sex scene off-screen in extra is hardly worth noting.Then FSN and Extra are worse than Apo. Unless you're specifically referring to the genderbend discussion, which in any case has always been ridiculous and an insult to the legends/figures it touches since the start. Saber was tolerable because she was the first, every other instance barring Da Vinci (probably the best excuse for it so far) is just exhausting an already questionable trope. Altera is cute and all outside her FGO card art but she's just ridiculous and as much as I enjoy Nobunaga I'm really disappointed that they decided to solidify the joke character as canon rather than trying to make a serious depiction. I take very little issue with these compared to lolis in thongs though but I can understand the sentiments of those who complain about it. But anyway, calling them out for one or two characters is one thing, trashing an entire franchise about this is another. Agreed, but so far, Fate/ anime has done little to make an argument for its case Edit: what's funnier still is that when someone mentions their disgust at these things, you see an argument like astroprogs just made, "welcome to anime" or "fate has always been like this" the fuck do you expect people to think about the franchise after that Except that I am talking about all those "veterans" of the series that talk shit about whatever every new spin off does while ignoring that FSN and Extra(because somehow it is treated as old)did that as well. The same goes for the new source material too.More Saberfaces, more ecchi, more genderbents etc. Why should anime have to "fix" stuff? And the slander is always WAY too forced. Yes the VN had sex scenes.Why are people treating is as "JUST PORN" when there are a ton of western series and movies with plenty of sex and nudity and are "normal everyday series"? Every time all I see is "Fate is bad because it was an eroge","I havent read it but it has sex scenes so....". After that the less ignorant rants about how much Shirou sucks for stuff that neither Deen nor Ufotable cant be at fault. I see more constructive criticism coming from old fans that finally snap about something in a specific entry they previously liked. Then you have Fai glorifying Pryllia /Rant Tbh replying to all those shit for brains is just me releasing some stress from all those baits I fall for. I know they dont really care and are just trolling("Apo ep1 is better than FZ's")but I am an easy target. |
fejita said: I'm not sure where you've been for the past 13 years but FSN's sexual content is constantly mocked - rightfully so You're right. I still giggle a lil from reading through these. [NSFW] |
SabrinaK said: astroprogs said: And I agree. The point is that it shouldn't make me go "I don't care about her backstory because it's all excuses for her to look like this or CCC because it has her and Melt as main characters". Not everyone is that open-minded, and I mean that as a compliment. I personally hate forced ecchi and sexualized underaged lolis. It wasn't until I came across your comments a month or two ago that I decided to overlook that stuff if the story was still pretty good (ie: Prisma Illya) - but that, too, was mostly because I was on the fence about overlooking lewd fanservice in general. Whereas the majority of loli/ecchi haters, esp the ones in the Apocrypha threads, have already made up their minds quite strongly. I mean, you have that guy ranting about the decline of morality and calling anyone who enjoys apo "deviant scum" or whatnot. Soo maybe you'll get through to a couple of conflicted people like you did with me, but overall, idk if it's worth your time dude :P Even after having played through Tsukihime and F/SN a long time ago, I still occasionally find it difficult to overlook ecchi fanservice in a series. So people who are even more against it are going to have an even harder time. Note: I'm not talking specifically about Apo, which doesn't even have that much lewdness imo, nor am I only referring to anime, as I'm not a fan of excessive sexual content in Western shows either. That sort of thing is just not my preference in any medium, though I don't mind at all if others like it. In fact, I think the main problem arises not when detractors voice their opinion but when they resort to ad hominem attacks against anyone who likes lolis, traps, and/or ecchi. Well, all i can say is that it's a shame. This is the worst medium to have this mindset. They'll lose out on great stories if they keep taking to heart what essentially boils down to drawn moving fictional characters too much. Prisma Illya being the most prime example i can think of. But yeah, It's not like i can't see your point about how one's tastes affects their impressions of things, it's just that i hope people would look beyond that. SabrinaK said: (Also just noticed this but to clarify, @astroprogs, when I said "not everyone is that open minded and I mean that as a compliment", I was referring to your open-mindedness being a good thing, not the other way around. D: Bad wording on my part, sry.) No worries, that's already what i got when i read that :D And thanks for the compliment :) |
| Hiroyama Hiroshi (Prisma Illya's mangaka for those of you who aren't familiar with the name) announced a new F/GO doujin on his twitter titled "Jinrui Shijou Saikyou Chaldea ☆ Beach Volleyball in Oceanus", scheduled for release on August 13th. And posted a small teaser.     Hiroyama's Nero is one of the things that you didn't know you really wanted until you get it. |
astroprogsJul 15, 2017 12:41 AM
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