Higurashi When They Cry: Festival Accompanying Arc
| Higurashi no Naku Koro ni was basically a puzzle, so it didn't really have to make any sense, but Kai was the solution and it left me a bit more puzzled than the puzzle. If anyone knows why please explain these questions to me, don't read this if you've haven't watch both series. Just to make it clear, I am not trying to hate on this series. Why did Rena and Mion inject that needle into Keiichi if they don't have a cure for the disease? I'm assuming that was the same type of needle that Takano Miyo said had the opposite effect of the cure. Same goes for when Rika injected Rena with the needle, which seemed to make both of their diseases worsen. When Akasaka was saving Rika near the end of Kai, why didn't they just use guns to put him down? Whose body was found at the beginning of the second arc of the first season?, the body with the needles in the hand. If Rika was being under surveillance, why did they let Shion, who was pretending to be Mion, make her suicide? Why happened to the emergency plan after Rika died in that arc? |
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| The question of the syringe is easily explained once you see the scene where Rika tried to do the same to Rena. Basically, it's the drug Satoko is using to stop the worsening of the disease. There's no cure per-se but there's a drug that can control it to a certain degree. There's also a drug that can worsen the disease, and they discovered it as a by-product of the one that can control it. Aside from that some of those can be a little harder to deal with. Do remember the exact details change from world to world, so basically, there's no plotholes, because the details changed. The only thing that remained the same was Tomitake and fake-Takano dying, Rika murdered and the contingency plan being put in effect. The only arc with a big plothole in regards to the aftereffects of Rika dying was the one where Rika commits suicide. I'm not sure if it did go over 48 hours between her deaths and the arc ending. I'd have to watch it over. As for the body in the canal, I always thought it was Satoshi. I took it that it wasn't always set it stone that Irie took him into his clinic. For all we know he could have been killed in one of the alternate worlds by the Sonozaki family. |
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| Higurashi's plot is very well tied together. There are almost no plot holes. It's just that the anime didn't show all the details and some things are left for the reader to piece together. Why did Rena and Mion inject that needle into Keiichi if they don't have a cure for the disease? There was no needle. It was a marker; Mion was going to write on him again. Episode 25 of season one explained this. Same goes for when Rika injected Rena with the needle, which seemed to make both of their diseases worsen. Rika didn't inject Rena. Rena refused to take the shot. If you're referring to Shion and not Rena. A healthy person (Rika) isn't supposed to take it. It's not lethal, it just has nasty side effects. That's not the reason Rika killed herself though. She killed herself to avoid being tortured to death by Shion. Quick and easy death beats a slow and painful one. When Akasaka was saving Rika near the end of Kai, why didn't they just use guns to put him down? Gunshots are too loud and Akasaka caught them off guard. The noise thing was explained with them having to mask the explosion with the sound of the fireworks. Whose body was found at the beginning of the second arc of the first season?, the body with the needles in the hand. Rina, Teppei's whore. The anime made a mistake with the hair color. It was corrected in the DVD release. Even with that mistake, you can still see the star tattoo on her waist. Rina was killed from trying to steal money from the Sonozakis (episode 8 of Kai shows this) If Rika was being under surveillance, why did they let Shion, who was pretending to be Mion, make her suicide? We don't really know how much surveilliance Rika had then. And they have no way of knowing what was happening inside the estate. They wouldn't know about the Mion and Shion situation. Why happened to the emergency plan after Rika died in that arc? Rika's dead body wasn't found within 48 hours so Takano couldn't execute manual 34. Hinamizawa was not gassed and the village didn't go berserk, proving the theory wrong. You could say Watanagashi/Meakashi are worlds where Takano and Rika both lost. |
LunarEmeraldJan 14, 2008 2:21 AM
There's also a good chance that in an alternate world a similar scenario took place, and then Rika didn't commit suicide and Shion tortured her to death. Rika would then kill herself to prevent that. That's right. Another mistake the anime made: Rika does not kill herself in Watanagashi. She was tortured to death by Shion. That's why in Meakashi, she kills herself to avoid being tortured again. Watanagashi and Meakashi are separate but very similar worlds. |
MarthX said: Yeah, I realized there should have been differences. After all, those two chapters were the only ones wich repeated the storyline, which seemed odd considering every other chapter was different, even the two where Keiichi was the one turning crazy. So basically, she knew what was coming and decided to off herself this time and restart it quickly.There's also a good chance that in an alternate world a similar scenario took place, and then Rika didn't commit suicide and Shion tortured her to death. Rika would then kill herself to prevent that. That's right. Another mistake the anime made: Rika does not kill herself in Watanagashi. She was tortured to death by Shion. That's why in Meakashi, she kills herself to avoid being tortured again. Watanagashi and Meakashi are separate but very similar worlds. And I was wondering about the 48 hours thing too. There were too many loose threads on that one to be actually true. In fact, the only one who seemed to believe that garbage was Takano: her employers never believed it for a second, and the only reason they executed the plan was to cover up their illegal research and just in case people did go berserk. Rika had no way of knowing the people didn't need the "queen" anymore either, because she obviously doesn't know anything that occurs during or after she dies. Plus, there's the big question that, yeah, you kill off the closer Hinamizawa residents, but what about every other person who's been in contact? After all, Hinamizawa was a small village, but plenty of people went to and from it and should have been exposed to it to some degree. And wow, totally missed the marker thing. Thought it was true that they called the "Coach" over to treat him. So he was eventually going to get a syringe stuck on him, heh. Whose body was found at the beginning of the second arc of the first season?, the body with the needles in the hand. Rina, Teppei's whore. The anime made a mistake with the hair color. It was corrected in the DVD release. Even with that mistake, you can still see the star tattoo on her waist. Rina was killed from trying to steal money from the Sonozakis (episode 8 of Kai shows this) |
Leon-GunJan 14, 2008 7:46 AM
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| I haven't watched finish this yet, but anyways... >Why did Rena and Mion inject that needle into Keiichi if they don't have a cure for the disease? >>There was no needle. It was a marker; Mion was going to write on him again. Episode 25 of season one explained this. >>>And wow, totally missed the marker thing. Thought it was true that they called the "Coach" over to treat him. So he was eventually going to get a syringe stuck on him, heh. If the needle was a marker, why would Keiichi kill himself via clawing his own throat out? Taking that the needle was... Well, a needle, does this mean that the needle contains the same terminal virus of Level 5 that was injected into Tamitake? But Satoko apparently can survive for longer at least a day without going into the terminal stage of Level 5. If this has got to do with anything pass episode 12, put it with spoilers tags, thanks ^_^ |
FrosteaJan 14, 2008 8:29 AM
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Frostea said: Past Episode 12 of the first or second series? If it if the former, then I haven't watched finish this yet, but anyways... >Why did Rena and Mion inject that needle into Keiichi if they don't have a cure for the disease? >>There was no needle. It was a marker; Mion was going to write on him again. Episode 25 of season one explained this. >>>And wow, totally missed the marker thing. Thought it was true that they called the "Coach" over to treat him. So he was eventually going to get a syringe stuck on him, heh. If the needle was a marker, why would Keiichi kill himself via clawing his own throat out? Taking that the needle was... Well, a needle, does this mean that the needle contains the same terminal virus of Level 5 that was injected into Tamitake? But Satoko apparently can survive for longer at least a day without going into the terminal stage of Level 5. If this has got to do with anything pass episode 12, put it with spoilers tags, thanks ^_^ |
Leon-GunJan 14, 2008 9:52 AM
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If the needle was a marker, why would Keiichi kill himself via clawing his own throat out? Because he's been suffering from Hinamizawa Syndrome all this time and it's progressively gotten worse. Once you reach L5, the terminal stage you begin violently scratching at your throat. When Keiichi thought Mion was about to inject him with whatever killed Tomitake, he snapped, pushing him to L5. But Satoko apparently can survive for longer at least a day without going into the terminal stage of Level 5. Satoko takes injections to keep it suppressed. But when Teppei returns, she's unable to take them. |
Nikhera said: Considering I'm currently on my second rewatch of the whole series, I agree. I can't get enough. I hope they don't screw up the next season.Leon-Gun said: Made me lol, I haven't even thought about that. :) I need to rewatch Onikakushi-hen. I haven't thought about it that way before, but Higurashi has an amazingly high rewatch value... Edit: ThisNameLies said: After re-watching episode 11 of Kai, I realized that perhaps they DID NOT had a close watch on her at all. They figured she didn't knew about it and she wouldn't run away from the people she thought would protect her. In Kai she relies on the very people who kill her and confides a lot of information to them, which causes Takano to be cautious and keep her under surveillance. If Rika was being under surveillance, why did they let Shion, who was pretending to be Mion, make her suicide? |
Leon-GunJan 15, 2008 4:10 PM
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| Thanks for explaining it to me, this might sound arrogant of me but I knew there were a lot of hallucinations in the first season and I'm aware that the conditions change from world to world. Guess I really can't see what's obvious because I thought of those possibilities and dismissed them for the following reasons: I didn't get why Shion was trying to write on Keiichi with a market if they had a needle to oppress the disease, and why they didn't bring him to the clinic when they kidnapped him and brought him back to his house and called the doctor to bring the needle there instead. I just assumed Rena took the needle, I thought Rika was giving it to her to oppress the disease, so I guess if she didn't take the needle everything would make sense. I assumed only explosions were too loud because if gunshots were too loud when Shion and her butler were shooting those guys out of the place people should have started gathering at the noise or showed kind of reaction. It didn't seem like the people were really that caught off guard, because they were charging at Akasaka to get beat up. I don't know, after watching everything I just didn't get the feeling that the Sonozaki family would kill anyone. Maybe I'm just blind. I just thought that Takano would have noticed that Rika went missing in the first 24 hours because she seemed pretty cautious of everything in the last few episodes. I'm probably wrong on a lot of these as I've haven't watched the series more than once, maybe I just don't get to what extent the worlds can be different from each other or how much of their thoughts can actually be controlled by the disease, because Satoshi had it for a long time and still seemed to be able to suppress most of his thoughts until he completed his task. But I do get those explanations, guess I'll try looking at it that way, Thanks a lot. |
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ThisNameLies said: Mion (needed a correction there) and Rena don't know of the disease. I assumed wrong. They actually thought Keiichi was just being a little paranoid and did feel under the weather so they thought they could kid around with him like they ussually do. Their usual games can be pretty damn scary sometimes if taken seriously. I'm still unsure what exactly was the needle in the food though.I didn't get why Shion was trying to write on Keiichi with a market if they had a needle to oppress the disease, and why they didn't bring him to the clinic when they kidnapped him and brought him back to his house and called the doctor to bring the needle there instead. I just assumed Rena took the needle, I thought Rika was giving it to her to oppress the disease, so I guess if she didn't take the needle everything would make sense. Rena gets scared at Rika and tells her to shove off so Rika gives up and tells her to suit herself. I guess they pass those scenes quickly so you can think wrong. I had to watch it twice to get a grip on the whole thing.I assumed only explosions were too loud because if gunshots were too loud when Shion and her butler were shooting those guys out of the place people should have started gathering at the noise or showed kind of reaction. Everyone was gathered in an underground shelter, and the area they were in was actually deeper into the place (there's a few corridors, the torture room and then the big cell area where the main gunfight took place), so nothing can be heard from there. Of course, I won't make much of an argument for Akasaka, except the fact he was on the road, outisde the Sonozaki premises, so there could have been more possibilities of causing a stir (especially since the Festival was cancelled so that wouldn't have been a distraction for the villagers).But really, Akasaki just had an action-hero vibe in that scene, so I will have to admit it felt just a bit unrealistic.I don't know, after watching everything I just didn't get the feeling that the Sonozaki family would kill anyone. Maybe I'm just blind. Well, they're Yakuza. I don't think they deal into assasinations too much, and more blackmailing and laundering. I never really caught who exactly Rina stole from so I can't say whether it really was the Sonozaki family or someone else (currently rewatching).I just thought that Takano would have noticed that Rika went missing in the first 24 hours because she seemed pretty cautious of everything in the last few episodes. You mean why didn't she put the plan in motion? Well, my best guess is that she needs everything to be normal. If you recall all of Hinamizawa was up and busy looking for Rika and Satoko. There was no way to round them up and gas them without anyone noticing and/or escaping.I'm probably wrong on a lot of these as I've haven't watched the series more than once, maybe I just don't get to what extent the worlds can be different from each other or how much of their thoughts can actually be controlled by the disease, because Satoshi had it for a long time and still seemed to be able to suppress most of his thoughts until he completed his task. But I do get those explanations, guess I'll try looking at it that way, Thanks a lot. It's okay, one can always mistake some things, and others aren't completely set in stone. Some are actually left open to guess at. As far as the Hinamizawa Syndrome goes, it seems willpower can stall it and/or reverse it. Ussually, in the first season, the "killers" would stall the "demon" (as Shion reffered to it) until their objective was complete. Once they'd killed the person they wanted they would begin feeling regret and paranoid and would eventually break down to Level 5 (because they no longer had a goal and so their willpower was not there). Esentially, the people are not exactly controlled by the parasite, but rather, they are unable to think rationally and succumb to primal instincts of rage and anger. Aside from that, it is shown that they can indeed think, just not in a rational matter. |
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I didn't get why Shion was trying to write on Keiichi with a market if they had a needle to oppress the disease, and why they didn't bring him to the clinic when they kidnapped him and brought him back to his house and called the doctor to bring the needle there instead. Mion not Shion and they don't know about Hinamizawa Syndrome. They didn't kidnap him. Yamainu knocked him out and Rena brought him to his house. Why Yamainu knocked him out is anybody's guess. I think they knew Keiichi was suffering from HS and were going to bring him to Takano but Rena came along and they left. I assumed only explosions were too loud because if gunshots were too loud when Shion and her butler were shooting those guys out of the place people should have started gathering at the noise or showed kind of reaction The gunfire was only inside the chamber. It wasn't outside so the sound was suppressed. It didn't seem like the people were really that caught off guard, because they were charging at Akasaka to get beat up. They were completely caught off-guard. Charging at someone doesn't mean anything. It doesn't take a second to charge at someone. What I mean by they were caught off-guard is that they hadn't planned someone doing that. Otherwise they would have silencers so they could shoot him without the noise alerting others. I don't know, after watching everything I just didn't get the feeling that the Sonozaki family would kill anyone. Maybe I'm just blind. The Sonozaki family is the yakuza. It extends far beyond what you see in the show. I just thought that Takano would have noticed that Rika went missing in the first 24 hours because she seemed pretty cautious of everything in the last few episodes. Completely different scenario. Takano was cautious in Matsuribayashi because of Operation 48 hours. In Watanagashi and Meakashi nothing was out of the ordinary to her. |
Nikhera said: Ah, I completely forgot that fact. But yes, once you add that factor it could indeed be true that he hallucinated. Leon-Gun said: I'm still unsure what exactly was the needle in the food though. You know how Oishi asked Keiichi to find the needle as evidence, and Keiichi couldn't find it? Ok, I know that it's a needle and it's hard to find, but nobody was home at Keiichi's, so the place would've been undisturbed. If he had combed the floor or the trash bin, he would have eventually found it. It might be possible that the needle was an outright hallucination. |
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| The needle thing was explained more in the game. The ohagi had tabasco sauce in it. The sting of the spiciness made him believe something pricked his lip. The red sauce made him believe it was blood. When Keiichi was younger, he read a manga about someone swallowing a needle. Afterward he was afraid to eat for a while, fearing a needle would be in his food. |
Nikhera said: It's actually exciting to see everything does ties in nicely. It's just a shame the anime had such a short amount of time to work it out. Had they been given some more leeway on the amount of episodes they would have been able to convey all the facts in a more clear way hence not leaving any misunderstandings or loose ties. They still did awesome considering the amount of information they had to pack into 26 episodes.OMG! That's awesome. It just ties together... ...I can't believe I'm getting excited over a needle. XD;; |
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| If Rika dies, then those affected with the Syndrome die within 48 hours. Why did Satoko and Keichii live in the arcs where they were the only ones left? They had the disease and lived past the 48 hour mark. |
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Shockdrake said: I think that's the fundamental flaw in Takano's thesis. Aside from the arcs that ended before Rika died, all the others had survivors. In a sense, it's flawed to have believed only Hinamizawa citizens had to be exterminated, because the people from Okinomiya would have also been exposed, considering it was the closest city to Hinamizawa and citizens from both areas mingled freely. Ooishi also could be considered a local (and in one arc he actually seemed to have been slightly under the effects of the syndrome) and for the most part he ussually survived to see another day.If Rika dies, then those affected with the Syndrome die within 48 hours. Why did Satoko and Keichii live in the arcs where they were the only ones left? They had the disease and lived past the 48 hour mark. In a sense, the only requirement to falling victim to the Syndrome was being subjected to severe amounts of stress. The only case shown to "prove" the whole "if you leave Hinamizawa you'll be cursed" was Rena, and when you look at her case carefully, you realize she actually was under much mental pressure during that time (her parent's divorce specifically, as well as her dad turning into a bum) so obviously she cracked. |
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Shockdrake said: If Rika dies, then those affected with the Syndrome die within 48 hours. Why did Satoko and Keichii live in the arcs where they were the only ones left? They had the disease and lived past the 48 hour mark. That theory is wrong. Killing Rika does not affect the village. |
MarthX said: That's the short version of what I said. :-)Shockdrake said: If Rika dies, then those affected with the Syndrome die within 48 hours. Why did Satoko and Keichii live in the arcs where they were the only ones left? They had the disease and lived past the 48 hour mark. That theory is wrong. Killing Rika does not affect the village. |
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| I was under the impression that the 48 hour theory was right, and that the survivors were anomalies. Why did the townspeople die then? They couldn't have been gassed or killed by the Yamainu, since the Yamainu believed in the 48 hour theory. They weren't put in any large amount of stress either. And the rescuers at one point said "There's a survivor!" implying that they didn't cause the disaster. Volcanic gases was labeled "unlikely" and that theory was put down in the show. If it's something obvious, answer anyway please = ) |
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| They were indeed gassed by the Yamainu. The people who later "rescued" the townspeople were special forces from the actual police forces, and not the ones involved with "Tokyo". The thing is, that the 48 hours theory is an exageration by Miyo. That's proven during the Shion/Mion arcs. When the encounter between the Demon-Mion and Keiichi happened, Keiichi mentions that "a few days" had passed after the dissapearance of Rika and Satoko. Now, of all the survivors from the arcs were the Volcanic gas incident happened, the only one that was shown the fullest was Sotoko during the "Anime only" arc. And she was indeed killed by an officer from the Yamainu. |
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| Okay, after visiting this thread. I only have one hole plot in Kai. The answered hole plot to me is in season 1 episode 9 first part, so it was a mistake of DEEN. It was Rina and not Satoko's uncle. I thought it would be Satoko's uncle because of the blond hair and that because in that arc, Satoko's uncle died. The second is about that needle thing in the 1st chapter of season 1. So all is Keiichi's fault. No one is really psycho there, even when the eyes of Rena or Mion is looking like demons, it was all an hallucination of Keiichi. Then the only hole plot in Kai. Is the last scene, the old Rika-like woman who talked to Takano and was really hot. X_X (I still don't understand what's the purpose of that scene and as I know, the bus got the accident, and they're still alive. The old Rika-like woman told Takano that if she would like to die you'll get the flag. And yet she got the last flag. I still don't understand and for me, it's a pretty big whole left by Kai. And who the hell is that hot-sexy Rika-like woman? "OMOCHI KAERIIII!~") And other hole plot for the season 1: Is that when Keiichi murdered Satoko's uncle, why is it everyone he wished for actually died? And he is hearing the footsteps of Oyashiro-sama there. And to think that the uncle really didn't die. I'm still confused there) Hahahah! I've written a long reply. Oh, well. It's already 4:44AM and just finished Kai in one-marathon. Gonna sleep for now. XD |
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TheBastid said: Shockdrake said: If Rika dies, then those affected with the Syndrome die within 48 hours. Why did Satoko and Keichii live in the arcs where they were the only ones left? They had the disease and lived past the 48 hour mark. What arc was that?? They died in every arc except for the last one. I don't remember the exact names butt satoko lived in the anime-only arc (she saw the people dead though, and someone found her), but she died in the hospital because of the yamainu and keichii survived in the arc which satokos uncle (first) came back There are a lot of things I still wonder about such as -what babykeiji mentioned, with the uncle not being dead. Also in the arc, it seemed that other worlds were kind of mixed (cuz everyone saw him at the festival, and he wasn't there because he killed her uncle) -The pin in his food, which someone has also mentioned:P -The person who came to keichii after the hospital(looked like shion/mion) This part didn't make sense because Mion was already dead, because Shion killed her(made it look like it was her body though) But when Shion stabbed him and came back to the hospital she died didn't she? Since this is the case who came back to Keichii in his room? It could be a hallucination but I wish they had a better explanation-_- --Also Rena survived in one arc, the last arc of season 1(where she went crazy and such) In the 'reunion' episode it showed her older I was also wondering about that, they never fully explained the Rika scene, was that syringe really there or was Rena imagining something like that in Rika's hands because she has the syndrome? Could the syringe be the reason that Rena survived? Or did they have a fight and she never got injected in the end? I'm not sure I'll have to watch that again- Also random questions like did Takano kill Satako's parents? Because Oishi suggested that Satako might've had something to do with it since she lied, and maybe she pushed them I'm not sure if that got answered but yea Also if that woman altered Takano's past wouldn't that mess up the future? I'm not saying what Takano did was a good thing, but if she hadn't done the research, Irie wouldn't have found a cure(well a somewhat cure) and Satoshi would be dead(that is, if it wasn't Takano who killed their parents) and all this random stuff. Can't think of every change but there would be a lot, especially with all those random people who started to have symptoms. Wow, such a thought provoking anime-_- |
hkatJul 15, 2008 8:54 AM
| Thanks guys after reading this thread, i've decided to rewatch Higurashi. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
x-gummybear-x said: Okay, I know I am reviving a super old thread but this merits some attention. IMO it's my belief after seeing Rei that Bernkastel, by saving Miyo from the accident, created the Hinamizawa that Rika is briefly trapped in during the Rei OVA. So I guess that answers that...that said, she only affects one universe by doing that, not the universe Rika eventually wins and remains in.Also if that woman altered Takano's past wouldn't that mess up the future? I'm not saying what Takano did was a good thing, but if she hadn't done the research, Irie wouldn't have found a cure(well a somewhat cure) and Satoshi would be dead(that is, if it wasn't Takano who killed their parents) and all this random stuff. Can't think of every change but there would be a lot, especially with all those random people who started to have symptoms. A little tip for all viewers of Higurashi, all Hinamizawa's are separate universes. It's shown time and again that every world continued after Rika's death, even though by then Rika had already left for a new world. Here's a few examples: - During the Shion/Mion arcs, all crucial events happen several days after Rika has already been either killed or died due to suicide. -During Akasaka's chapter, he returns several decades later to discuss with Ooishi about the events. -During the anime-only extension to Rena's chapter, Rena, Ooishi and Akasaka return 25 years later to Hinamizawa. So as we can see, all previous worlds move on, regardless of the survivors. |
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