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Sep 13, 2021 7:29 AM
#1
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Jul 2016
11
Is there a logical reason as for why not Li Mu can just skip zui and march towards xianyang. Since they are facing difficulty in conquering zui while the priority should be Xianyang.
By doing that he can easily conquer xianyang. And even if the army that is at zui comes from behind, they can easily beat them with numbers.
MrPerfectGamerSep 13, 2021 7:44 AM
Sep 13, 2021 11:26 AM
#2
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Aug 2021
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He can’t skip it because the soldiers wouldn’t let him get past also he’s trying to take over all of qin and zui is a big city so he has to take it sometime he was also under the assumption they were gonna give up as soon as he came and wants to find out what motivated citizens to take up the sword
Sep 14, 2021 1:03 AM
#3
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Sep 2021
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@MrPerfectGamer
He can't skip zui if he does want to skip he must find a different path or if he does skip zui the soldiers of zui might kill all of li mu army using arrows and other it might be a great loss for Li Mu which might fail the war with xianyang
Sep 15, 2021 5:02 PM
#4
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Feb 2021
4
Seeing as Qins king is in Zui, I can't think of a logical reason why he'd want to go to Xianyang at all
Sep 25, 2021 12:35 PM
#5
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Talrasha-030984 said:
Seeing as Qins king is in Zui, I can't think of a logical reason why he'd want to go to Xianyang at all

Well he didn't knew that. He only deduced it after fighting them for 3 days.
Sep 25, 2021 12:46 PM
#6
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Xwill-trk_513 said:
He can’t skip it because the soldiers wouldn’t let him get past also he’s trying to take over all of qin and zui is a big city so he has to take it sometime he was also under the assumption they were gonna give up as soon as he came and wants to find out what motivated citizens to take up the sword

The last statement is the only thing that I think can be considered a reason.
For the first point, they can march at night.
You say zui is a big city and they have to take it sometime, but xianyang is even bigger, and isn't it common knowledge to always go for the enemy leader (which should have been at xianyang, atleast thats what li mu thought.) to end the battle sooner.
Sep 25, 2021 12:48 PM
#7
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Nakamaichi_piece said:
@MrPerfectGamer
He can't skip zui if he does want to skip he must find a different path or if he does skip zui the soldiers of zui might kill all of li mu army using arrows and other it might be a great loss for Li Mu which might fail the war with xianyang

As I said if they can surround zui on all four sides then some of them can definitely skip it. Not to mention they can march at night when enemy is not much active.
I believe a person of Li mu's calliber should understand the value of time so after fighting for 1 day he should have prioritised conquering xianyang instead of wasting time in zui since this was a surprise attack. I think it would have been a brilliant reveal that half of Li Mu army disappeared at night and went ahead.
MrPerfectGamerSep 25, 2021 1:01 PM
Sep 25, 2021 8:09 PM
#8
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Feb 2021
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MrPerfectGamer said:
Is there a logical reason as for why not Li Mu can just skip zui and march towards xianyang. Since they are facing difficulty in conquering zui while the priority should be Xianyang.
By doing that he can easily conquer xianyang. And even if the army that is at zui comes from behind, they can easily beat them with numbers.


It's ego. The way I see it, he took all the castles on their way to the capital very quickly. Zuis resilience caught him off guard. By pulling away from Zui and going past, it would mean that he has a defeat on record. And he has shown time and again that his clout and ego are very important to him.

If your follow-up issue with this is "why not just skip it in the first place", I'm pretty sure that he took every single castle on the way, and didn't skip any. So I'm guessing he wants that completionist trophy lol.
DoobieSamSep 25, 2021 8:12 PM
Sep 26, 2021 9:08 AM
#9
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DoobieSam said:
MrPerfectGamer said:
Is there a logical reason as for why not Li Mu can just skip zui and march towards xianyang. Since they are facing difficulty in conquering zui while the priority should be Xianyang.
By doing that he can easily conquer xianyang. And even if the army that is at zui comes from behind, they can easily beat them with numbers.


It's ego. The way I see it, he took all the castles on their way to the capital very quickly. Zuis resilience caught him off guard. By pulling away from Zui and going past, it would mean that he has a defeat on record. And he has shown time and again that his clout and ego are very important to him.

If your follow-up issue with this is "why not just skip it in the first place", I'm pretty sure that he took every single castle on the way, and didn't skip any. So I'm guessing he wants that completionist trophy lol.

Excerpt from kingdom wiki
"As a strategist though, he is shown to be ruthless to his enemies and willing to utilize so-called UNDERHANDED means for victory. He allowed and commended the idea of attacking Ou Ki from behind in his duel with Hou Ken."
Notice the word Underhanded in above statement. That means he could have definitely skipped zui as that would be considered underhanded.
As for "clout and ego", can you give some examples where his clout and ego is shown as very important to him.
Btw I am anime only so please avoid manga spoilers.
Sep 26, 2021 11:29 AM
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Sep 2019
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Even with low numbers or weak warriors it would be a huge mistake to skip a whole castle like that. Strategically it would be a disaster to skip it. In a huge battle to take the capital there will be times where almost any enemy coming from behind would be horrible. Even if it was a momentary distraction it could be what the enemy needs to win.
Sep 26, 2021 12:29 PM

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There is a river between Zui (Sai) and Xianyang, I think this was rushed to explain in the anime. If Li Mu army tries to skip Zui and go for the capital, they will be hunted down while they try to cross the river. Even if some part of the army surrounds the castle and the rest goes for the capital, it would be a risky move. That's why it's essential to capture Zui first.

Also, after Li Mu learns that the king is in Zui, there is no point in going after the capital at all. After all, it is game over for the kingdom once the king is dead.



Found it where they explain the river part. From chapter 327
LaetaitaSep 26, 2021 12:48 PM
Sep 26, 2021 1:01 PM
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Jul 2016
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Laetaita said:
There is a river between Zui (Sai) and Xianyang, I think this was rushed to explain in the anime. If Li Mu army tries to skip Zui and go for the capital, they will be hunted down while they try to cross the river. Even if some part of the army surrounds the castle and the rest goes for the capital, it would be a risky move. That's why it's essential to capture Zui first.

Also, after Li Mu learns that the king is in Zui, there is no point in going after the capital at all. After all, it is game over for the kingdom once the king is dead.



Found it where they explain the river part. From chapter 327

Alright I get it now, thanks for the explanation.
Apr 8, 10:19 AM
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Jul 2016
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Reply to Laetaita
There is a river between Zui (Sai) and Xianyang, I think this was rushed to explain in the anime. If Li Mu army tries to skip Zui and go for the capital, they will be hunted down while they try to cross the river. Even if some part of the army surrounds the castle and the rest goes for the capital, it would be a risky move. That's why it's essential to capture Zui first.

Also, after Li Mu learns that the king is in Zui, there is no point in going after the capital at all. After all, it is game over for the kingdom once the king is dead.



Found it where they explain the river part. From chapter 327
@Laetaita I recently rewatched 3rd season so regarding your explanation of isui river, iirc li mu had 30000 soldiers and zui had 35000(20k women plus children), if li mu had used 10k soldiers for surrounding zui and the remaining 20000 soldier goes for xianyang by crossing isui river at night then i believe they would have conquered xianyang. What do you think?
Apr 9, 1:01 PM
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Reply to MrPerfectGamer
@Laetaita I recently rewatched 3rd season so regarding your explanation of isui river, iirc li mu had 30000 soldiers and zui had 35000(20k women plus children), if li mu had used 10k soldiers for surrounding zui and the remaining 20000 soldier goes for xianyang by crossing isui river at night then i believe they would have conquered xianyang. What do you think?
@MrPerfectGamer Moving 20000 soldiers across a river in one single night is quite impossibel or atl least a massive logistical nightmare so more time would probably be needed. Also 10000 vs 35000 is a big risk even if the 10000 are the best of zhao army. Of the 35000 a few thousand were still hardened veterans and many prominent fighters remained in the city.

Also not really having a line of supply could easily prove fatal. The fortified zui army could cut the supply to Xianyang by a significant amount. Xianyang is still a very well fortified city with many inner walls so the siege could take a few days in which a lack of food could destroy the moral if not the fighting ability.

Lastly Li Mu was 100% about to win the battle of zui and wasn't in a hurry. He only retreated because the mountain folk came out of nowhere. Zheng and the folk had kept quite minimal if any contact after forming their alliance and Li Mu had no way of knowing they weren't hostile of indifferent towards Qin or any "flatlanders". And if I remember correctly he said he could defeat them but would not have any troops left to conquer Xianyang after that and that was why it was better to retreat with minimal losses.
Apr 11, 7:20 AM
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Jul 2016
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Reply to Jipsi
@MrPerfectGamer Moving 20000 soldiers across a river in one single night is quite impossibel or atl least a massive logistical nightmare so more time would probably be needed. Also 10000 vs 35000 is a big risk even if the 10000 are the best of zhao army. Of the 35000 a few thousand were still hardened veterans and many prominent fighters remained in the city.

Also not really having a line of supply could easily prove fatal. The fortified zui army could cut the supply to Xianyang by a significant amount. Xianyang is still a very well fortified city with many inner walls so the siege could take a few days in which a lack of food could destroy the moral if not the fighting ability.

Lastly Li Mu was 100% about to win the battle of zui and wasn't in a hurry. He only retreated because the mountain folk came out of nowhere. Zheng and the folk had kept quite minimal if any contact after forming their alliance and Li Mu had no way of knowing they weren't hostile of indifferent towards Qin or any "flatlanders". And if I remember correctly he said he could defeat them but would not have any troops left to conquer Xianyang after that and that was why it was better to retreat with minimal losses.
@Jipsi Okay that makes sense, thanks for the explanation.

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