Christian themes in S2 (spoiler discussion)

Tigrrr111 said:
I can't help but notice some overarching christian themes throughout this season, especially the latter half. Themes of self-sacrifice, non-violence and pacifism, growth through abject suffering, facing ones past sins, work ethic, raising up the downtrodden and the moral rejection of slavery (Christians where the first to reject slavery historically) to name what I can count. One scene shows Thorfinn eavesdropping on his masters reading from the bible and being enamored with the content, which signals to me that the scripture aligns with his personal believes to a certain degree. It is clear that certain characters are explicitly christian and shown carrying crosses and owning bibles. I don't feel like it is a coincidence that there is so much that happens to align with what is in my understanding chrisitan. At least the values that the show expresses throughout.

I'm not christian my self so my understanding of the theology is limited but I feel like this season had, though perhaps not intentionally, christian-like themes throughout its story line. That is at least my impression. If you are Christian, I would like to know how you found this season, especially in regards to its themes? if it resonated with your personal believes?

If it is the case, I think this is how you do a "religious show". Not by being overtly preachy but representing core values as virtuous and important and letting the viewer come to their own conclusion, which signals confidence in one's world view as opposed to beating people over their heads with your believes. Often religious media puts the cart before the horse and comes of as more like confirming one's own believes, I.E. propaganda. There is a difference however between propagating certain values instead of manipulating people into believing certain things. If Vinland Saga S2 is "christian" than it is not telling you to be christian but rather dramatizing the importance of certain values that happen to be christian. In that case, Vinland Saga S2 is an example of good religious media because it is non-dogmatic and its morals are correct.

Please keep the discussion free of spoilers for the story beyond S2 of the manga, as I only watch the anime.

Tigrrr111 said:
I can't help but notice some overarching christian themes throughout this season, especially the latter half. Themes of self-sacrifice, non-violence and pacifism, growth through abject suffering, facing ones past sins, work ethic, raising up the downtrodden and the moral rejection of slavery (Christians where the first to reject slavery historically) to name what I can count. One scene shows Thorfinn eavesdropping on his masters reading from the bible and being enamored with the content, which signals to me that the scripture aligns with his personal believes to a certain degree. It is clear that certain characters are explicitly christian and shown carrying crosses and owning bibles. I don't feel like it is a coincidence that there is so much that happens to align with what is in my understanding chrisitan. At least the values that the show expresses throughout.

I'm not christian my self so my understanding of the theology is limited but I feel like this season had, though perhaps not intentionally, christian-like themes throughout its story line. That is at least my impression. If you are Christian, I would like to know how you found this season, especially in regards to its themes? if it resonated with your personal believes?

If it is the case, I think this is how you do a "religious show". Not by being overtly preachy but representing core values as virtuous and important and letting the viewer come to their own conclusion, which signals confidence in one's world view as opposed to beating people over their heads with your believes. Often religious media puts the cart before the horse and comes of as more like confirming one's own believes, I.E. propaganda. There is a difference however between propagating certain values instead of manipulating people into believing certain things. If Vinland Saga S2 is "christian" than it is not telling you to be christian but rather dramatizing the importance of certain values that happen to be christian. In that case, Vinland Saga S2 is an example of good religious media because it is non-dogmatic and its morals are correct.

Please keep the discussion free of spoilers for the story beyond S2 of the manga, as I only watch the anime.

Tigrrr111 said:
I can't help but notice some overarching christian themes throughout this season, especially the latter half. Themes of self-sacrifice, non-violence and pacifism, growth through abject suffering, facing ones past sins, work ethic, raising up the downtrodden and the moral rejection of slavery (Christians where the first to reject slavery historically) to name what I can count. One scene shows Thorfinn eavesdropping on his masters reading from the bible and being enamored with the content, which signals to me that the scripture aligns with his personal believes to a certain degree. It is clear that certain characters are explicitly christian and shown carrying crosses and owning bibles. I don't feel like it is a coincidence that there is so much that happens to align with what is in my understanding chrisitan. At least the values that the show expresses throughout.

I'm not christian my self so my understanding of the theology is limited but I feel like this season had, though perhaps not intentionally, christian-like themes throughout its story line. That is at least my impression. If you are Christian, I would like to know how you found this season, especially in regards to its themes? if it resonated with your personal believes?

If it is the case, I think this is how you do a "religious show". Not by being overtly preachy but representing core values as virtuous and important and letting the viewer come to their own conclusion, which signals confidence in one's world view as opposed to beating people over their heads with your believes. Often religious media puts the cart before the horse and comes of as more like confirming one's own believes, I.E. propaganda. There is a difference however between propagating certain values instead of manipulating people into believing certain things. If Vinland Saga S2 is "christian" than it is not telling you to be christian but rather dramatizing the importance of certain values that happen to be christian. In that case, Vinland Saga S2 is an example of good religious media because it is non-dogmatic and its morals are correct.

Please keep the discussion free of spoilers for the story beyond S2 of the manga, as I only watch the anime.

Tigrrr111 said:
I can't help but notice some overarching christian themes throughout this season, especially the latter half. Themes of self-sacrifice, non-violence and pacifism, growth through abject suffering, facing ones past sins, work ethic, raising up the downtrodden and the moral rejection of slavery (Christians where the first to reject slavery historically) to name what I can count. One scene shows Thorfinn eavesdropping on his masters reading from the bible and being enamored with the content, which signals to me that the scripture aligns with his personal believes to a certain degree. It is clear that certain characters are explicitly christian and shown carrying crosses and owning bibles. I don't feel like it is a coincidence that there is so much that happens to align with what is in my understanding chrisitan. At least the values that the show expresses throughout.

I'm not christian my self so my understanding of the theology is limited but I feel like this season had, though perhaps not intentionally, christian-like themes throughout its story line. That is at least my impression. If you are Christian, I would like to know how you found this season, especially in regards to its themes? if it resonated with your personal believes?

If it is the case, I think this is how you do a "religious show". Not by being overtly preachy but representing core values as virtuous and important and letting the viewer come to their own conclusion, which signals confidence in one's world view as opposed to beating people over their heads with your believes. Often religious media puts the cart before the horse and comes of as more like confirming one's own believes, I.E. propaganda. There is a difference however between propagating certain values instead of manipulating people into believing certain things. If Vinland Saga S2 is "christian" than it is not telling you to be christian but rather dramatizing the importance of certain values that happen to be christian. In that case, Vinland Saga S2 is an example of good religious media because it is non-dogmatic and its morals are correct.

Please keep the discussion free of spoilers for the story beyond S2 of the manga, as I only watch the anime.

Tangerine7225 said:
It’s my own personal headcanon that Thorfinn did convert to Christianity privately at some point in the story. But either way, as a Christian me and my Christian friends thoroughly enjoyed the depiction of scripture and Christian values throughout S2, whether it was intentional or not. It truly brings joy to my heart to see how Thorfinn and “Vinland Saga” have led many young people to Jesus as is evident in social media, and Thorfinn’s depiction of humbleness, recognizing the wrong that one has done, and the conviction he feels for his past actions all very accurately represent what it’s like to be a Christian.

WITHOUT SPOILERS: there’s a scene in the manga past where S2 leaves off in which Thorfinn helps someone out of a dangerous situation. They then ask Thorfinn why he went through the trouble of helping them when it would’ve been far easier and safer for him to leave. He replies something along the lines of “There was a man who spent his life killing people who had no quarrel with him. He was filled with hatred and anger. Compared to what that man has done, helping you is no trouble at all” To me this is a wonderful and heartfelt depiction of our duty as Christians. The Bible tells us that since we have been forgiven when we didn’t deserve it, we must forgive others even if we think they don’t deserve it. We must love because Christ first loved us.

If anyone has any questions about Christianity or other instances where you think Thorfinn embodies what it means to follow Jesus, please share them with me. God bless

MFDOOMED said:
Traditionally, christian media is only seriously embraced by the community when the ideals are firmly stated in the story. A couple people have gotten some acclaim by using "christian-lite" themes, but they never get the respect of a "proud, cross waving christian" media creator. See JRR Tolkien. He may well have created a successful universe respected by people across the world in many languages, but I personally know many christians that consider his works demonic.

Ultimately, any religion, in this case specifically Christianity, is subjective and each individual hand picks which part of the Bible they are going to choose to follow. In that sense, Thorfinn is a "Christian." If you go by the whole accept Jesus into your heart as your lord and savior deal, then he's not. Tho theoretically, he could have done all that stuff off screen.

IMO, the Japanese people have a very conflicted view of religion. A short version of it is that unlike other countries around the world, proselytization only got so far over there, in a country that has traditionally vacillated between polytheism and a version of monotheism(The emperor is "literally" God). There is plenty of info to back up my claims. Feel free to research if you wish.

All that boring stuff leads to many writers over there embracing portions of christianity and not the entire whole. Even the people that do have difficulty with proselytization, a core tenet of the vast majority of Christian works. So regardless of the mangakas personal faiths and belief systems, it would actually be both brave and unusual for any mangaka to outright put their faith out there in black and white.

While I am currently free of the shackles of religion, pentacostal christianity was a major part of roughly 80% of my life. Becoming saved, abstinence, and a lot of other boring stuff. I was supposed to become a pastor in the past and always engaged in my "faith" from a rational and logical perspective, buttressed by a buttload of historical information.

Taking the concept of religion and putting it to the side, many, many former and current soldiers look to religion to "atone" for their "crimes" so that they can justify continuing to stay alive. S2 displayed the ideas very well, but specifically shied away from outright statements about how Thorfinn could move forward using religion. While I personally don't agree that Thorfinn was "wrong" considering both his circumstances as well as the times and situations that he's lived through, I'm not Thorfinn.

Just like in real life, if religion helps you sleep at night, get some into your life.

Last fun fact. The prevailing religions of the viking warriors basically said if you don't kill people and die honorably in battle, you will never get into "heaven" (Valhalla). S1 and S2 focused on these important ideas without dwelling on it in detail.

The_Weekly_Jay said:

I don’t know if it’s intentional or not either, but it’s pretty accurate, historically speaking. The likelihood of Thorfinn running into someone who was Christian was bound to happen with how prevalent Christianity was, geographically, in that part of the world.

As a Christian, I appreciate this season of Vinland Saga’s discussion around morality, values, humanity, atonement, and redemption. Funny enough, this topic was something I was thinking about the other day—with that scene of Thorfinn listening to Snake reading the Bible to Sverkel. I would like to think that at that moment, Thorfinn decided to follow the faith. However, going off what was presented, I don’t think he’s a Christian. Rather, he respects and appreciates what he heard during those times he eavesdropped and even adopted some of the principles into his own way of thinking.

Einar even said that Thorfinn wasn’t Christian, but he liked listening to the stories.