Adressing the "mappa drops chainsaw man", "chainsaw man cancelled", etc...

Igi2137 said:

He is getting to me.

Moxif391 said:
This couldn't sum it up more perfectly, most ppl don't know how much it takes to produce anime, they are human, they require time and they can change unknowingly from direction changes, adding more animators into the project etc.

Igi2137 said:

He is getting to me.

HoesEatinDogFood said:
I was wondering why they didn’t at least announce a second season but after reading this it makes sense. Thanks for the info

Moxif391 said:

to sum it up, it's a bad pr move to announce a second season too early, especially when (in this scenario) the production of it just only started (also a side note, MAPPA does sometimes announce series late but that's just MAPPA)

Piromysl said:

It makes perfect sense.
Haters using some sorry of mental gymnastics and claiming that S2 would be announced now or never is ludicrous.
JJK S2 was announced over a year after S1 finished airing. And it doesn't only apply to MAPPA, because Kaguya-sama, Lycoris Recoil and many others also had their sequels announced much later.

Swagernator said:
Why do we need a thread like this, when some random nobody made another thread about something something being cancelled ?

Are 14 years olds people this much dormant ? If i make a thread about world ending tomorrow, will CSM fans believe me ?

samsince04 said:
I mean you’re doing the same too… Making assumptions. I am relieved to know that the false assumptions you speak of are not true… yet.

UltimateKai said:
If y’all really think a show like this with so much going behind the scenes production wise and so much push to create it will somehow not atleast get a second season to finish the arc off; You are the reason humanity is falling behind… AND IT MAKES ME ANGRY.

MasterDni said:
i recently found this video about the japanese community hating chainsaw man for being cinematic https://youtube.com/shorts/gKxhWNYHtAw

thunderkitten13 said:
This whole message just reads like copium. Why would the CEO express disappointment about the series failing at selling BDs, and even not reaching the core fan base? You realize the actual return of investment Mappa was expecting, right? They spent more on this than JJK. It had its own unique EDs and OS for every episode. They thought it was going to be HUGE, and got slapped in BD sales by a goofy teenager who plays the guitar. Mappa failed to deliver expectations. In fact, they pulled a western move: tailor a beloved IP to an audience that doesn’t spend money on your product in the first place (except they aren’t trying to shoot for social currency/virtue signaling). And just because Mappa claimed it was a “passion project” or “Mappa fitting the bill” doesn’t mean people WITHIN Mappa give a shit about CM. Their only motivation is PROFIT and when one side preached how profitable CM was going to be, they signed the checks and waited patiently for returns, but we know how the BDs turned out. And just because the CEO said it was “profitable” doesn’t mean it was reaching the marks it was supposed to reach. A CEO doesn’t express how successful a series is by mentioning how terrible the BD sales were and missing the target audience, and I think it’s time to see the blood on the wall now that the guy that directed the series was booted lol. I still stand by my theory Chainsaw Man is getting rebooted.

Spoopy69 said:

1. Chainsaw man wasn't just a "profitable" show, it was a financial success, which usually means that it was highly profitable and not just profitable.

2. Yes they put more money into chainsaw man, but that is only obvious. Jujutsu kaisen had a production comittee which paid the production, chainsaw man was funded by mappa itself. so obviously they put more money into chainsaw man

3. Blu-rays of CGDCT anime or idol anime have always outsold major franchises, jujutsu kaisen is actually one of the only exceptions. If you go to blu-ray data of prettt much any week, you will see that the top 5 most selling is always filled with idol or CGDCT shows. There are reasons for this and articles that explain it, if you want me to elaborate you can ask ofcourse but i think if i include it here i am going too far on a tangent. So in short, idol and CGDCT shows will always outsell other big franchises but since one of these extremely rare exceptions is being made as a benchmark for another series half its length with not enough time to fully spread it's wings, you will only see disappointment.

4. another reason for the lackluster performance on the blu-ray side is that chainsaw man is not a show that is focussed on the mainstream audience, jujutsu kaisen is just fighting and an intriguing plot, chainsaw man has more vulgar moments like a barf kiss, a lot of character deaths, teenager getting groomed by adult women, etc... these kinds of scenes can turn off a decent portion of the audience.

i might have missed one of your points, pleasr highlight them if i have so.

thunderkitten13 said:

1. Just because they say it is a financial success doesn’t mean they reached the levels of profitability they wanted. It’s not like you know for certain they made over 50 million over budget, they could’ve only made 1 which is terrible when we are talking distributing media. Not only this but a CEO did not say we were overwhelmed by the support of the fans are even talk about the amount of companies desiring to collab with Mappa/CM, the CEO literally said BUT it didn’t reach the core audience we wanted and the BDs were low, and even expressed his desire to reach the core fanbase, indicating they are not only displeased with the amount of support they are receiving but the fact of the matter that they are catering to people that do not invest money in anime which explains why the BD second volume only sold 300 lol.

2. I don’t know if you know much about the anime industry (or Japanese business in general) but the fact they poured more into an in-house production is actually against the norm, it is usually investors from 3rd parties that pour in investment which they do after they calculate the profit margins that are to be expected, which leads me into my greater point that at the end of the day, mappa is running a bunsiess, and it doesn’t matter who at mappa says how much they love CM because their feelings aren’t going to pay the bills, and when you have someone saying we need the anime to have extremely good animation and unique EDs for every episode, the other person in turn is expecting high profitability and fanfare. We are living in the age of Demon Slayer and MHA, two giant IPs known around the world. Anime is not a niche thing anymore, people are heavily invested into the industry and even “passion projects” (and I don’t believe CM is a passion project, despite how much the big wigs at Mappa wanna say they love Cm) have one goal in mind at the end of the day: make money. The fact is they fired the director and JJK overshadowed CM this past convention, with no word on what the exact sales numbers of the BDs were of Chainsaw Man. You are thinking about this through the wrong lens. If Mappa spent so much on a series while it was poorly received and only sustained by the streaming rights, they are going to feel more inclined to take on investments for productions that they will only oversee but have little stake in because it is less risk. The interview the CEO was not a positive interview, btw. It was damage control.

3. You aren’t wrong about idol anime selling BDs like hotcakes, but you are nitpicking info to cater to your narrative that “idol anime ALWAYS sells”. There are plenty of idol anime that are mixed in reception and have tiny fanbases, like lapus relights and others. That’s not my cup of tea for thr most part, but using the giants of the industry to compare to CM is inaccurate. But even despite this, plenty of shonen sell like hotcakes like Demon Slayer or AOT. Just because idol anime does well doesn’t mean other genres doesn’t, which makes it more obvious how Cm did by selling only 700 copies the first week. How in denial can people be about this number lol, like even if you want to claim people don’t buy BDs anymore, it’s obvious Mappa still understand there’s a market for BDs, which is why they created their own unique BDs with extra goodies. That doesn’t sound like “BDs don’t even matter” when Mappa is producing custom BDs…

4. This point is kinda weird considering AOT is probably one of the top 5 biggest anime in the world and the plot is literally about giant deformed people eating smaller people.

seriouslyjokinn said:

Mappa didn't fired Ryu Nakayama. If you look at his Twitter, he's at a vacation (yes, mappa giving animators their rest). He's still the director. They are going to change some "DIRECTION" of the way story is going to be told now, not the "DIRECTOR". Probably like giving more freedom to key animators for animating fights, like having different variety of animation styles like kannada style animation and more choatic nature, just like manga. For example, Dialogue scenes are going to be like ryu Nakayama way, but key animators are going to frickin crazy while fight and sakuga scenes. And those rumours of Mappa firing Ryu is bullshit. Sakugablog confirmed that Mappa is NEVER going to fire some talented animator like him (ryu literally worked in OPM Season 1, wtf more do you want) and if he's not the director is because he left the CSM production by his own. Devilman Crybaby didn't had much profit like having skyrising bd sales, but I think it's know as the one of the best animes of all time. It's just that CSM is different and doesn't appeal to much audience...

thunderkitten13 said:

Devilman also didn’t have the craziest animation and probably only needed less than half the investment CM needed. Also, the director was unfollowed by the main Cm account (according to JP twitter) and his Twitter is offline, so you saying he is on vacation may be true but not because he’s still working on Mappa, and plenty of directors stay active especially after their productions have aired, and even talk about sales and support of the fans. And the whole issue with MAL’s takes on Cm’s reception is they just don’t understand how much the Japanese audience resents the director and tone of the series. They spoke with their wallet and refused to buy the BDs, something that made the CEO feel regret. At the end of the day, the JP market means more to Mappa than any other one.

seriouslyjokinn said:

I was not talking from the animation perspective. I was talking from the adaptation and story perspective. Devilman Crybaby, if you ignore the bullshit system just for once, is really low rated on Mal, even though it got Crunchyroll Anime of the year (not that it matters but ok). Not only that but also it didn't earned as good as Violet Evergarden, which was airing on the same year as Devilman Crybaby (DC). Why? Because it doesn't appeal to mass audience anyways. Nobody wants to just randomly pick this up and watch some Devil nutting on another devil in the middle of sky, horrendous imagery and gore, nudity and sexual themes, genocide and literally every theme that could enrage every Twitter user. Comparing Chainsaw Man and Jujutsu Kaisen is comparing Hell and Heaven (in context for content shown in season 1). Not only that but also comparing while Chainsaw Man got only 12 episodes while JJK have 24 episodes is totally absurd. I am not complaining about that one because if we are getting this quality for every season, the I'll gladly wait for year or two. Also, you all are totally overestimating the director issue. NOBODY OTHER THAN FIVE PEOPLE HAVING 5 THOUSAND TWITTER ACCOUNTS AND SOME BOTS AND PEOPLE SPECIFICALLY MADE TO HATE MAPPA DOESN'T GIVE A TWO FUCKS ABOUT THE DIRECTOR ISSUE. Ryu Nakayama didn't confirmed himself that he's leaving CSM and if you gladly look at his Twitter he's on a vacation. and believing these rumours is simply having donut brain (I am looking at you "OPM SEASON 3 done by Mappa"). Season 2 of CSM would be there and Ryu would be there. That's it. PLEASE END THIS FUCKING CONVERSATION AND MOVE ON COME ON FOR GOD SAKES.....

thunderkitten13 said:

Are you using Crunchyroll’s award show as supporting your point that Devilman crybaby is a quality anime that didn’t sell that many BDs lmfao? Didn’t Crunchyroll award demon slayer isekai of the year hahaha. I hear what you are trying to say, but you are mistaking the purpose of both these anime. Obviously DC was meant to be a smaller scale production, so the profit margins were always going to be low, hence why the overall production is of lesser quality than say JJK. Chainsaw Man, however, was meant to be extremely profitable. If you really think about the interview with MAPPA’s CEO, he expressed a lot of dissapontment, from the weak BD sales to the anime not reaching the “core” audience. And that’s my whole point: the anime does not reflect the storytelling and action of the manga. The covers were bright and vibrant, the scenes were borederline goofy at times, and had a lot of detailed panels that expressed the characters a lot more than the anime. But even besides that, Chainsaw Man is not that far fetched of a concept that it couldn’t compete with JJK, and I’m really confused by your take that it’s so off putting it would always pull less numbers than JJK. We are talking about an era of anime where giant IPs like AOT reign over the industry, where giants eat humans. The fact is these productions are highly calculated when it comes to cost, as all entertainment productions are. You don’t spend money carelessly, and you also measure the prifits that are to be expected. Chainsaw Man was probably expected to be on par with JJK, which is exactly why the CEO mentioned it in the interview, but did so because it actually made much less than JJK. I’m just baffled at how CM fans are digesting this interview, like nitpicking words to suggest Cm was a breakthrough hit, when in reality the theme of the whole interview was regret. And it’s more plausible that the director was fired than it is there’s a chainsaw man movie in the works, despite what you believe. Japanese Twitter was just an extension of the dissatisfaction that entire Japanese market had for the anime. It’s the entire reason the ceo talks about the low BD sales in the first place, and why he felt the anime missed its desired demographic. This means that nobody is invested in chainsaw man like they want. They made their bags off their streaming rights (which are purchased before the first episode even airs), but if the show does extremely poorly then a next season is less likely to see as big of an investment. Why don’t we use context. Hits like MHA or Demon Slayer see high stream numbers AND high BD sales. Streaming services look at the BDs and think “people reeeeeally live this series, to the point where they want BDs! So let’s keep on this track and secure the next season’s rights while we can” and the success keeps rolling and rolling…but chainsaw man only sold 700 BDs , which is like 5K after production/distribution costs. That’s nothing, especially compared to Bocchi clearing over 10K BDs first week. The Japanese HATED chainsaw man, or at least chose not to support it, and some of it was due to the inappropriate behavior of the director but it was more the change of tone from the manga to the anime which was deliberate. And why are you saying believing rumors is “donut brain”; plenty of rumors have been proving right in the industry over time, it’s not like all rumors are wrong. I don’t know why you closed out your reply in caps but I’m not going to stop talking about things I find interesting lol.

seriouslyjokinn said:

I get it. The tone of CSM was way serious and i get it. the action was not like chaotic in the manga and i also get it. But saying the whole adaptation is bad, is wrong. The best fights of CSM are Leech devil and Eternity devil ( i think you might have liked that at least). Why? Because it was chaotic and messy just like in manga ( which was infact, not all parts but best sequences of both of these fights were done by same man, Keiichiro Watanabe). Episode 8 was very good. Excluding the action sequence, direction wise episode 3 was very good too which matched CSM tone. Episode 4 was just CSM-in-a-nutshell episode. Episode 1 set the tone of CSM very well too because it wants you to sympathize the condition of Denji just like in manga, and dark and grimmy with muted colours were just made it look more good. My only thing is that fights should be atleast be more chaotic. I don't care about muted colours but CSM should be atleast more be gritty-like like Kizumonogatari. I get it but harrassing Ryu Nakayama and cancelling him is just bullshit. Tatsuya Yoshihara and Keiichiro Watanabe are best examples imo. also, I was just giving a example regarding Crunchyroll but I guess it was a bad example...

Igi2137 said:
@thunderkitten13 how is the bocchi season 2 going?