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Attack on Titan
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Nov 26, 2023 10:08 PM
#1
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Apr 2020
395
"You aren't wrong. If you want to, do it. Eren, the difference between your decision and ours is experience. But you don't have to rely on that. Choose. Believe in yourself. Or believe in the Survey Corps and me. I don't know... I never have. I can believe in my own abilities or the choices of companions I trust. But no one ever knows how it will turn out. So choose for yourself whichever decision you'll regret least." - Levi Ackerman

So in Episode 21, Eren chooses to trust his comrades and they die. So by using Eren's mentality, trusting his comrades was "wrong" and he should've fought Annie from the start. So Eren decides to change his choice and fights Annie, and what is the result? He loses, is captured, and has to be rescued by other people. So using the same logic, trusting himself was also "wrong".

Why did Isayama write a scenario in which both choices did not produce a favourable outcome? I think the answer lies with what Levi said earlier. Levi never once said that Eren's decision to fight Annie (in Episode 19) was right or wrong, because he never knows what the outcome will be. Why would humanity's strongest soldier say he isn't certain about the outcome? Because he accepts his own powerlessness; no matter how strong Levi is (because of his Ackerman blood) there will be times when things won't work out because of how the world works. It's massive, unfair and beyond our control. The same thing can be applied to Eren. Even with his Titan powers, Eren isn't immune to losing something.

So let me go back to when Eren considered transforming to fight Annie in Episode 19. What Eren really wanted was that he did not have to trust anyone, that he was so powerful to control every single factor, that he could fight on his own, kill Annie, and not have to suffer the loss of anyone. Quite a scene out of a power fantasy. However, in a world like AoT where there is so much uncertainty, a scene like that can never be guaranteed. What Eren has to learn to accept from this whole experience is his own powerlessness and that there are things that are genuinely out of his control.
Nov 26, 2023 10:22 PM
#2

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Jul 2015
11213
People often a ask for a hero, when a villain is what they truly need.

Nov 27, 2023 12:56 AM
#3
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Jul 2021
624
Very beautiful interpretation, you're right. We overlooked so many scenes where Isayama's genius lies :)
Nov 27, 2023 2:35 AM
#4
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Apr 2021
493
yup, he never tried to sway any side to agree with him, he encouraged all to think critically about the situation and to what conclusion they would reach.
and everyone tought about it and diferent views on the matters surfaced.
Nov 27, 2023 3:35 AM
#5
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May 2022
33
You said it perfectly đź‘Ź
Nov 27, 2023 3:37 AM
#6
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Dec 2022
256
LLBird said:
"You aren't wrong. If you want to, do it. Eren, the difference between your decision and ours is experience. But you don't have to rely on that. Choose. Believe in yourself. Or believe in the Survey Corps and me. I don't know... I never have. I can believe in my own abilities or the choices of companions I trust. But no one ever knows how it will turn out. So choose for yourself whichever decision you'll regret least." - Levi Ackerman

So in Episode 21, Eren chooses to trust his comrades and they die. So by using Eren's mentality, trusting his comrades was "wrong" and he should've fought Annie from the start. So Eren decides to change his choice and fights Annie, and what is the result? He loses, is captured, and has to be rescued by other people. So using the same logic, trusting himself was also "wrong".

Why did Isayama write a scenario in which both choices did not produce a favourable outcome? I think the answer lies with what Levi said earlier. Levi never once said that Eren's decision to fight Annie (in Episode 19) was right or wrong, because he never knows what the outcome will be. Why would humanity's strongest soldier say he isn't certain about the outcome? Because he accepts his own powerlessness; no matter how strong Levi is (because of his Ackerman blood) there will be times when things won't work out because of how the world works. It's massive, unfair and beyond our control. The same thing can be applied to Eren. Even with his Titan powers, Eren isn't immune to losing something.

So let me go back to when Eren considered transforming to fight Annie in Episode 19. What Eren really wanted was that he did not have to trust anyone, that he was so powerful to control every single factor, that he could fight on his own, kill Annie, and not have to suffer the loss of anyone. Quite a scene out of a power fantasy. However, in a world like AoT where there is so much uncertainty, a scene like that can never be guaranteed. What Eren has to learn to accept from this whole experience is his own powerlessness and that there are things that are genuinely out of his control.

Back when the story was simple and good. But then S4 came along and everyone ignores the whole point of free will in the story to form some sort of headcanon about the universe beinf deterministic so no one actually had relevance of choice.
Nov 27, 2023 10:26 AM
#7

Offline
Mar 2023
329
Yeah, seems to be a theme.

But is this even something useful to take away? Accepting that you can never have any control over anything would just be meaningless. In reality, you should pretty much do the opposite of this and try to pick the best choice you can accept and hope it works out.
Nov 27, 2023 3:04 PM
#8
Offline
Apr 2020
395
Reply to watsym
Yeah, seems to be a theme.

But is this even something useful to take away? Accepting that you can never have any control over anything would just be meaningless. In reality, you should pretty much do the opposite of this and try to pick the best choice you can accept and hope it works out.
@watsym I don't think accepting that we don't have complete control over everything means it's meaningless. Levi's words come from the idea that even if we can't control every single factor of the situation, we do have agency in how we respond to uncertainty, focusing on factors we can influence so that we can make a choice with the least regrets. I mean you said it best:

watsym said:
try to pick the best choice you can accept and hope it works out.
Nov 27, 2023 3:12 PM
#9

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Apr 2012
18947
Do we really need to dig that deep when Ishiyama himself has explicitly hinted that Eren's story is about how being overly responsible robs you of choice?
Nov 27, 2023 3:18 PM
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Apr 2022
1508
This is a lot of words to say “genocide good”.
Nov 28, 2023 7:26 PM
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Jun 2023
67
Nothing is ever truly right or wrong. What’s right for someone might be wrong for someone else. Also Levi’s point in this case was that you can’t predict what the outcome of any of your actions will be
Nov 28, 2023 7:27 PM
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Jun 2023
67
Also there are no right side to be on. As it said in the series, everyone has a demon inside of them. They all are bad in some way
Nov 29, 2023 3:50 AM
Offline
Jun 2016
3
LLBird said:
"You aren't wrong. If you want to, do it. Eren, the difference between your decision and ours is experience. But you don't have to rely on that. Choose. Believe in yourself. Or believe in the Survey Corps and me. I don't know... I never have. I can believe in my own abilities or the choices of companions I trust. But no one ever knows how it will turn out. So choose for yourself whichever decision you'll regret least." - Levi Ackerman

So in Episode 21, Eren chooses to trust his comrades and they die. So by using Eren's mentality, trusting his comrades was "wrong" and he should've fought Annie from the start. So Eren decides to change his choice and fights Annie, and what is the result? He loses, is captured, and has to be rescued by other people. So using the same logic, trusting himself was also "wrong".

Why did Isayama write a scenario in which both choices did not produce a favourable outcome? I think the answer lies with what Levi said earlier. Levi never once said that Eren's decision to fight Annie (in Episode 19) was right or wrong, because he never knows what the outcome will be. Why would humanity's strongest soldier say he isn't certain about the outcome? Because he accepts his own powerlessness; no matter how strong Levi is (because of his Ackerman blood) there will be times when things won't work out because of how the world works. It's massive, unfair and beyond our control. The same thing can be applied to Eren. Even with his Titan powers, Eren isn't immune to losing something.

So let me go back to when Eren considered transforming to fight Annie in Episode 19. What Eren really wanted was that he did not have to trust anyone, that he was so powerful to control every single factor, that he could fight on his own, kill Annie, and not have to suffer the loss of anyone. Quite a scene out of a power fantasy. However, in a world like AoT where there is so much uncertainty, a scene like that can never be guaranteed. What Eren has to learn to accept from this whole experience is his own powerlessness and that there are things that are genuinely out of his control.

damn this is fire i never thought about this
Nov 29, 2023 4:16 PM
Offline
May 2022
114
LLBird said:
"You aren't wrong. If you want to, do it. Eren, the difference between your decision and ours is experience. But you don't have to rely on that. Choose. Believe in yourself. Or believe in the Survey Corps and me. I don't know... I never have. I can believe in my own abilities or the choices of companions I trust. But no one ever knows how it will turn out. So choose for yourself whichever decision you'll regret least." - Levi Ackerman

So in Episode 21, Eren chooses to trust his comrades and they die. So by using Eren's mentality, trusting his comrades was "wrong" and he should've fought Annie from the start. So Eren decides to change his choice and fights Annie, and what is the result? He loses, is captured, and has to be rescued by other people. So using the same logic, trusting himself was also "wrong".

Why did Isayama write a scenario in which both choices did not produce a favourable outcome? I think the answer lies with what Levi said earlier. Levi never once said that Eren's decision to fight Annie (in Episode 19) was right or wrong, because he never knows what the outcome will be. Why would humanity's strongest soldier say he isn't certain about the outcome? Because he accepts his own powerlessness; no matter how strong Levi is (because of his Ackerman blood) there will be times when things won't work out because of how the world works. It's massive, unfair and beyond our control. The same thing can be applied to Eren. Even with his Titan powers, Eren isn't immune to losing something.

So let me go back to when Eren considered transforming to fight Annie in Episode 19. What Eren really wanted was that he did not have to trust anyone, that he was so powerful to control every single factor, that he could fight on his own, kill Annie, and not have to suffer the loss of anyone. Quite a scene out of a power fantasy. However, in a world like AoT where there is so much uncertainty, a scene like that can never be guaranteed. What Eren has to learn to accept from this whole experience is his own powerlessness and that there are things that are genuinely out of his control.

Hm. Great catch, i thought this post would be about the moral relativism presented in the conflict between Paradise and Marley but instead it discussed about the powerlessness one possesses when faced with the uncertain. This "theme" if you wanna call it didn't seem all that present to me throughout the show, especially considering that in the last season the exact opposite is happening, eren remains powerless when faced with the certain, but still nice post.
Nov 29, 2023 6:35 PM

Offline
Aug 2019
1695
It's a funny scene, because if you aren't paying attention to what's actually being said, it can go right over your head and sound like some meaningless dialogue that the author pulled out of his ass to make Levi sound edgy.

I remember watching the show for the first time when i was younger and thinking "WTF is this guy actually talking about?"

Good explanation.
Dec 7, 2023 10:42 AM
Offline
Nov 2019
32
xenosys said:
It's a funny scene, because if you aren't paying attention to what's actually being said, it can go right over your head and sound like some meaningless dialogue that the author pulled out of his ass to make Levi sound edgy.

I remember watching the show for the first time when i was younger and thinking "WTF is this guy actually talking about?"

Good explanation.

True. First time watch seems out of context. Worth at least a rewatch.

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