Just so many things that I don&#039;t understand

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1. Johan ran away from the hospital, I believe. He continues to be a serial killer at a smaller scale, but eventually dies (I haven't read it directly, but all of this is apparently mentioned in a sequel novel by the author).

2. For the choice, it doesn't matter. The point of that scene does show that Johan's life wasn't the best, but also shows that he is incapable of being a better person. Tenma has gone through multiple hardships too, but unlike Johan, he doesn't hold on to it and use it as an excuse to be a worse person. Johan will always have the pain of potentially not having his mother's love, but doesn't understand that he can find that love in some other place if he tried.

3. This one goes deeper. The reason Johan asks Nina to shoot him is because she is his "other half". He believes her to be a part of himself. When he kills those foster parents, he asks her to kill him because he wants to check if he himself is capable of loving him. She shoots him. He realises that he doesn't love himself. Nobody does, at that point.
But Tenma saves him. Despite not knowing anything, he saves him. For Johan, Tenma represents the ultimate good of the world. If he is able to convert Tenma, a doctor, into a murderer, he will prove that no good exists into this world. Tenma eventually saving him is Johan's ultimate defeat.

4. Course of events. Everything that happens to him is bad. He doesn't even have a name. He starts believing that no good or love exists in this world. And thus, life isn't worth living. He wants to destroy all of humanity to prove that. If nobody knows his name, nobody can love or know him. It's his patheticness as a person that makes him such a good villain to me, ngl.

5. It isn't impossible. Just very, very difficult. It's fiction, so some exaggeration is necessary. The way Johan does it is the most important thing. He finds a way to bring someone at their worst mental point. And that's what mainly allows him to manipulate them a bit more easily.

Aug 6, 2023 7:41 AM

#5

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PyGno_ said:
1. I think it's confirmed in the "Another Monster" - Novel that he did vanish.

2. To hide the fact that she had two kids. The secret service searched for a single mother with twins. She couldn't keep the children inside at all time, but if they look the same neighbours would just assume she just has one Girl.
Idk if she purposely chose Anna.

3. Tenma represents a kind Human, who believes in the good inside every Human. Johan wants to prove that humans are fundamentally evil and thus tries to get the best person he knows to commit murder.

4. Probably born genius and a whole lot of trauma, so both.

5. Of course it's not completely realistic, but I think his use of mass paranoia (Ruhenheim) and past trauma (Rooftop) is to some extent realistically portayed

thank you, i definitely got a new insight and I'll look into the novel you mentioned

Aug 6, 2023 7:43 AM

#6

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WVM said:
Answer to your Q1 : Yes it actually happened

Answer to your Q2 : Simply just to hide the fact that she had two kids

Answer to your Q3 : It was to be TENMA because JOHAN has lost trust in others and as a kid when he was saved by TENMA...he looked up to him and he was bothered by his personality change and his deeds and wanted TENMA to kill him since he felt he was best suited to be killed by a man like him

Answer to your Q4 : Both as he was intelligent and was also the couse of event that happened with him

Answer to your Q5 : He was born intelligent...and the fact was noticed by the SUPERIOR BEINGS and so he was trained to be a great MANIPULATOR...even though he was at peak before being trained

@Aug1799 : if was able to help you than pls tell also if you still have doubt than pls ask 😁😁😁

you've helped along with others who replied, to put up a reasonable explanation. that's enough, i wasn't aware of the sequel and I'm glad i posted this. now I'll go and look into it.

thanks again :)

Aug 6, 2023 7:51 AM

#7

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RandomPerson9348 said:
1. Johan ran away from the hospital, I believe. He continues to be a serial killer at a smaller scale, but eventually dies (I haven't read it directly, but all of this is apparently mentioned in a sequel novel by the author).

2. For the choice, it doesn't matter. The point of that scene does show that Johan's life wasn't the best, but also shows that he is incapable of being a better person. Tenma has gone through multiple hardships too, but unlike Johan, he doesn't hold on to it and use it as an excuse to be a worse person. Johan will always have the pain of potentially not having his mother's love, but doesn't understand that he can find that love in some other place if he tried.

3. This one goes deeper. The reason Johan asks Nina to shoot him is because she is his "other half". He believes her to be a part of himself. When he kills those foster parents, he asks her to kill him because he wants to check if he himself is capable of loving him. She shoots him. He realises that he doesn't love himself. Nobody does, at that point.
But Tenma saves him. Despite not knowing anything, he saves him. For Johan, Tenma represents the ultimate good of the world. If he is able to convert Tenma, a doctor, into a murderer, he will prove that no good exists into this world. Tenma eventually saving him is Johan's ultimate defeat.

4. Course of events. Everything that happens to him is bad. He doesn't even have a name. He starts believing that no good or love exists in this world. And thus, life isn't worth living. He wants to destroy all of humanity to prove that. If nobody knows his name, nobody can love or know him. It's his patheticness as a person that makes him such a good villain to me, ngl.

5. It isn't impossible. Just very, very difficult. It's fiction, so some exaggeration is necessary. The way Johan does it is the most important thing. He finds a way to bring someone at their worst mental point. And that's what mainly allows him to manipulate them a bit more easily.

to manipulate an individual was believable but managing to pull off a massacre at kinderheim purely based on manipulation seemed to push it too far from reality for me haha.

Though you've given quite detailed explanations, so thank you for providing new insights.

Aug 6, 2023 7:55 AM

#8

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219

Aug1799 said:

RandomPerson9348 said:
1. Johan ran away from the hospital, I believe. He continues to be a serial killer at a smaller scale, but eventually dies (I haven't read it directly, but all of this is apparently mentioned in a sequel novel by the author).

2. For the choice, it doesn't matter. The point of that scene does show that Johan's life wasn't the best, but also shows that he is incapable of being a better person. Tenma has gone through multiple hardships too, but unlike Johan, he doesn't hold on to it and use it as an excuse to be a worse person. Johan will always have the pain of potentially not having his mother's love, but doesn't understand that he can find that love in some other place if he tried.

3. This one goes deeper. The reason Johan asks Nina to shoot him is because she is his "other half". He believes her to be a part of himself. When he kills those foster parents, he asks her to kill him because he wants to check if he himself is capable of loving him. She shoots him. He realises that he doesn't love himself. Nobody does, at that point.
But Tenma saves him. Despite not knowing anything, he saves him. For Johan, Tenma represents the ultimate good of the world. If he is able to convert Tenma, a doctor, into a murderer, he will prove that no good exists into this world. Tenma eventually saving him is Johan's ultimate defeat.

4. Course of events. Everything that happens to him is bad. He doesn't even have a name. He starts believing that no good or love exists in this world. And thus, life isn't worth living. He wants to destroy all of humanity to prove that. If nobody knows his name, nobody can love or know him. It's his patheticness as a person that makes him such a good villain to me, ngl.

5. It isn't impossible. Just very, very difficult. It's fiction, so some exaggeration is necessary. The way Johan does it is the most important thing. He finds a way to bring someone at their worst mental point. And that's what mainly allows him to manipulate them a bit more easily.

to manipulate an individual was believable but managing to pull off a massacre at kinderheim purely based on manipulation seemed to push it too far from reality for me haha.

Though you've given quite detailed explanations, so thank you for providing new insights.

I'd say that the town at the end was more unbelievable, lol. You have to remember that Kinderheim kids were already tortured a lot. Getting them to do something bad would be pretty easy if you used the right words.

And as for the explanations, you're welcome. I believe that Monster is a story that requires quite a bit of psychoanalytical skills to understand completely. Even I had to read multiple different articles to truly understand it all, since I'm not that good at psychology. So it's great to share the knowledge.

Aug 6, 2023 8:39 AM

#9

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SXfffa said:

RandomPerson9348 said:
1. Johan ran away from the hospital, I believe. He continues to be a serial killer at a smaller scale, but eventually dies (I haven't read it directly, but all of this is apparently mentioned in a sequel novel by the author).

You are completely wrong.

Um...okay?

I did say I didn't read the novel, so I know that point isn't the most reliable answer I gave.

Aug 6, 2023 8:41 AM

#10

WVM

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Aug1799 said:

WVM said:
Answer to your Q1 : Yes it actually happened

Answer to your Q2 : Simply just to hide the fact that she had two kids

Answer to your Q3 : It was to be TENMA because JOHAN has lost trust in others and as a kid when he was saved by TENMA...he looked up to him and he was bothered by his personality change and his deeds and wanted TENMA to kill him since he felt he was best suited to be killed by a man like him

Answer to your Q4 : Both as he was intelligent and was also the couse of event that happened with him

Answer to your Q5 : He was born intelligent...and the fact was noticed by the SUPERIOR BEINGS and so he was trained to be a great MANIPULATOR...even though he was at peak before being trained

@Aug1799 : if was able to help you than pls tell also if you still have doubt than pls ask 😁😁😁

you've helped along with others who replied, to put up a reasonable explanation. that's enough, i wasn't aware of the sequel and I'm glad i posted this. now I'll go and look into it.

thanks again :)

yeah this post did helped me too

I will look into ANOTHER MONSTER

Aug 6, 2023 8:51 AM

#11

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SXfffa said:

RandomPerson9348 said:

Um...okay?

I did say I didn't read the novel, so I know that point isn't the most reliable answer I gave.

Yeah but yoıu can be bothered to check the sumamry of the novel onb the net before posting besides you are implyin what you wrote is true.

But you fixed it then, didn't you?

The OP will read your message and know that I was wrong. It's fine. I agree that it was my bad, so chill.

Aug 6, 2023 10:27 AM

#12

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RandomPerson9348 said:

SXfffa said:

Yeah but yoıu can be bothered to check the sumamry of the novel onb the net before posting besides you are implyin what you wrote is true.

But you fixed it then, didn't you?

The OP will read your message and know that I was wrong. It's fine. I agree that it was my bad, so chill.

can confirm, i read this little exchange and I'm glad we all cleared up our thoughts.

no worries folks, it's all good. it's a healthy discussion.

Aug 6, 2023 1:27 PM

#13

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Aug1799 said:
(THIS DISCUSSION CONTAINS SPOILERS)

What exactly happened at the end, was it tenma's imagination that Johan got up from his bed and spoke or did it actually happen?

Why did johan's mother dress Johan as a girl? Is it something to do with her wanting to protect her children in general or protect Johan in specific, the fact that she was not able to decide which child to let go of, just before they took Anna away seems to indicate that Johan was right, the mother was clearly trying to send one of them while trying to retain the other, was she trying to retain Anna or Johan?

What was Johan's obsession with Tenma, why did it have to be Tenma who killed him always?

And finally was Johan born like that or was it ultimately the course of events that made him that way?

Finally i don't hate the show in anyway but the way Johan manipulated some of the victims, how realistic is it at the end of the day? I highly doubt it's as easy, or more like it's just impossible to manipulate someone to the
extent to which he did in this show... In my honest opinion.

TL;DR - Don't bother answering if you don't have the patience to read through my whole question

1. The ending was strictly left up to the readers and watchers interpretation but in my opinion and understanding, Yes it actually happened, johan did survive again via his goal of tryna test his own fate and see if he was the chosen one(rooftop game concept) but after that scene we see an empty bed which us supposed to further the open book ending and interpretation of the audience which is why the story is such a masterpiece. But there is another monster novel which expresses that johan ran away and decided to live his life normally, however idk how much canon that is to agree with but personally I stick with my own interpretation of the ending which is similar to the another monster explanation.

2. Johans mother dressed him like Anna/Nina because she feared and knew people were after her kids but she decided to disguise one of them and made them look identical because she didn’t want them to know that there was two children, but I also believe it ties to johans view that his mother was a monster bc she ended up choosing to give one of her kids away, if u connect that with the mother disguising johan as nina, u can tell the mother seemingly wanted to ignore the reality that she had two children but it obviously didn’t work bc she was still forced to give one away and it seems that the one she wanted to give away was nina because thats who she disguised johan as.

3. Johan wants tenma to kill him bc he knows tenma is good man and never killed a person before and thats left proven true by the series itself, tenma was someone who was a complete antithesis to johans ideology of nihilism and how all human beings are only equal in the value of death and nothing else, tenma believed humans lives were all equal and meaningful thus choosing to kill someone over the other is wrong, he however ends up contradicting himself by choosing to save johan rather than the mayor via a fit of rage and anger at the main doctor and his daughter (evas) was of thinking about human lives not being the same value. These three beliefs by different characters is essentially the setup for the events and actions of these characters. So johan wants tenma, someone who is against choosing one life over the other to shoot and kill him when johan had a child at gun point, tenma ends up not doing what johan wanted and didnt lose to the monster.

4. Johan wasnt born a genius or a monster, he was essentially made into a monster and its evident by bonaportas ideology that “humans can become anything”, obviously johan also gained a lot of knowledge and traumatic events in his life to make him the monster he is.

5. Nah, i think his manipulation techniques are pretty realistic, what kinda seems unrealistic tho is how he leaves no traces behind him, ig that was included to add more thematic suspense and value behind johans mysterious character.

Aug 6, 2023 7:00 PM

#14

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itzswxzy said:
it seems that the one she wanted to give away was nina because thats who she disguised johan as

I didn't get that statement, she wanted to give away Nina because that's what she disguised Johan as? Wouldn't that mean that she liked Nina more?

Aug 6, 2023 7:21 PM

#15

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Aug1799 said:

itzswxzy said:
it seems that the one she wanted to give away was nina because thats who she disguised johan as

I didn't get that statement, she wanted to give away Nina because that's what she disguised Johan as? Wouldn't that mean that she liked Nina more?

Yes and No, the mother I believe loved both her children but its the fact that she had accept that she would he to choosing one over the other and so she decided to disguise johan to look exactly like nina, this further adds to the confusing question johan had as well which is did she want johan or nina? Either case it left the impression that she was choosing one over the other.

Aug 6, 2023 10:08 PM

#16

TRC_Randy

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I recommend you watch this video first

Ofc you can ask me anything else if there's any.

Aug 6, 2023 11:43 PM

#17

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itzswxzy said:

Aug1799 said:

I didn't get that statement, she wanted to give away Nina because that's what she disguised Johan as? Wouldn't that mean that she liked Nina more?

Yes and No, the mother I believe loved both her children but its the fact that she had accept that she would he to choosing one over the other and so she decided to disguise johan to look exactly like nina, this further adds to the confusing question johan had as well which is did she want johan or nina? Either case it left the impression that she was choosing one over the other.

so if that were the case, why did she hesitate before the choice though? her hesitation seems to indicate that she was definitely trying to choose one over the other though.

Aug 6, 2023 11:45 PM

#18

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TRC_Randy said:
I recommend you watch this video first

Ofc you can ask me anything else if there's any.

Ah yes he has explained it very beautifully, i watched that yesterday sometime after posting this discussion.

but thank you for the great recommendation though. : D

Aug 7, 2023 9:44 AM

#19

StarryyChai

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To add to people's answers to the final question..
I may be wrong, but as I remember, the people who Johan directly manipulated were already in a compromised mental state. I feel like if you consider the victim's mental health and motives, it makes Johan's manipulative tactics more believable.

Aug 7, 2023 9:51 AM

#20

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StarryyChai said:
To add to people's answers to the final question..
I may be wrong, but as I remember, the people who Johan directly manipulated were already in a compromised mental state. I feel like if you consider the victim's mental health and motives, it makes Johan's manipulative tactics more believable.

but to be able to influence someone to that extent you'd have to earn their sense of trust right?
It's amazing how he manages to earn people's trust that easily, almost too amazing to be true. Or atleast that's how i feel about it, hehe.

Ofc i may just be ignorant and may be wrong as well.

Aug 7, 2023 9:57 AM

#21

StarryyChai

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Aug1799 said:

StarryyChai said:
To add to people's answers to the final question..
I may be wrong, but as I remember, the people who Johan directly manipulated were already in a compromised mental state. I feel like if you consider the victim's mental health and motives, it makes Johan's manipulative tactics more believable.

but to be able to influence someone to that extent you'd have to earn their sense of trust right?
It's amazing how he manages to earn people's trust that easily, almost too amazing to be true. Or atleast that's how i feel about it, hehe.

Ofc i may just be ignorant and may be wrong as well.

That's very true. Remember, though, that most sane people just when looking at Johan call him unnatural or otherworldly. He has a very dominant presence. Even if he doesn't gain their trust in the traditional friendly sense, his compelling nature might influence people.

I'm just theorizing honestly. This is how I rationalized it when I watched the show, but if you aren't convinced that's totally fine by me haha

Aug 7, 2023 10:00 AM

#22

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StarryyChai said:

Aug1799 said:

but to be able to influence someone to that extent you'd have to earn their sense of trust right?
It's amazing how he manages to earn people's trust that easily, almost too amazing to be true. Or atleast that's how i feel about it, hehe.

Ofc i may just be ignorant and may be wrong as well.

That's very true. Remember, though, that most sane people just when looking at Johan call him unnatural or otherworldly. He has a very dominant presence. Even if he doesn't gain their trust in the traditional friendly sense, his compelling nature might influence people.

I'm just theorizing honestly. This is how I rationalized it when I watched the show, but if you aren't convinced that's totally fine by me haha

no worries, thank you for your insight. : D

Aug 7, 2023 2:40 PM

#23

Sirius_noah

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I want to thank OP for posting this as I also wanted to know these things but didn’t come to mind to post, thnx ^^

Aug 7, 2023 7:41 PM

#24

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Sirius_noah said:
I want to thank OP for posting this as I also wanted to know these things but didn’t come to mind to post, thnx ^^

I'm glad it was helpful. Hopefully more PPL who are confused about anything in the show will find this discussion. :)

Aug 8, 2023 2:27 AM

#25

TRC_Randy

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Aug1799 said:
Ah yes he has explained it very beautifully, i watched that yesterday sometime after posting this discussion.

but thank you for the great recommendation though. : D

great. So to answer your questions

1. That's up to interpretation but storytelling wise it's just showing that that was the starting point where Johan's motivations developed, where the first piece of domino fell.

2.

Aug1799 said:
Why did johan's mother dress Johan as a girl?

probably to confuse those guys from easily choosing either the girl or boy so she's just protecting them in general.

Aug1799 said:
the fact that she was not able to decide which child to let go of,

this is the issue. As a mother who's supposed to love her children she should've protected them regardless yet she let go of one of them and Johan felt betrayed by that (anyone would).

Aug1799 said:
was she trying to retain Anna or Johan?

neither. You can see her hesitance so she most likely let go of Anna randomly, pure chance i.e. "fate" and as seen throughout the story that's one of the major themes propelling Johan's motivations and the show as a whole.

3. Tenma being his saviour and is someone who holds a principle contra to his.

4. The course of events.

5. Well i've never actually manipulated people nor have i seen someone else doing it irl like Johan does so i can't really say. At the end of the day this is fiction so it might not be realistic after all but i thought the show did it good enough.

TRC_RandyAug 8, 2023 2:31 AM

Aug 8, 2023 5:50 AM

#26

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TRC_Randy said:
neither. You can see her hesitance so she most likely let go of Anna randomly, pure chance i.e. "fate" and as seen throughout the story that's one of the major themes propelling Johan's motivations

That was the only part where i felt Johan was right... I feel like he was right and that the mother really preferred one over the other.

Don't know why I feel so strongly that way, but my mind seems to be made up after seeing her hesitate to make a choice. XD

Aug 8, 2023 8:07 PM

#27

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Aug1799 said:

itzswxzy said:

Yes and No, the mother I believe loved both her children but its the fact that she had accept that she would he to choosing one over the other and so she decided to disguise johan to look exactly like nina, this further adds to the confusing question johan had as well which is did she want johan or nina? Either case it left the impression that she was choosing one over the other.

so if that were the case, why did she hesitate before the choice though? her hesitation seems to indicate that she was definitely trying to choose one over the other though.

Because she realized when that moment came she would actually struggle to choose bc there her own children after all.

Aug 9, 2023 1:42 AM

#28

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itzswxzy said:

Aug1799 said:

so if that were the case, why did she hesitate before the choice though? her hesitation seems to indicate that she was definitely trying to choose one over the other though.

Because she realized when that moment came she would actually struggle to choose bc there her own children after all.

all I'm saying is the right choice to make in that situation was to hang on to both of them like her life depended on it and let bonaparta just take one by force instead of actually saying "have this one..." then stopping for a brief whole second reconsidering her decision and then saying.... "No, this one"

that's definitely her making a preference among the two and thus Johan was right.
Or atleast that's how i interpret that.

Aug1799Aug 9, 2023 9:53 AM

Aug 9, 2023 9:01 AM

#29

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Aug1799 said:

itzswxzy said:

Because she realized when that moment came she would actually struggle to choose bc there her own children after all.

all I'm saying is the right choice to make in that situation was to hang on to both of them like her life depended on it and let bonaparta just take one by force instead of actually saying "have this one..." then stopping for a brief whole second reconsidering her decision and then saying.... "No, this one"

that's definitely her making a preference among the two and thus Johan was right.

Thats cool to think that I suppose.

Aug 9, 2023 9:54 AM

#30

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itzswxzy said:

Aug1799 said:

all I'm saying is the right choice to make in that situation was to hang on to both of them like her life depended on it and let bonaparta just take one by force instead of actually saying "have this one..." then stopping for a brief whole second reconsidering her decision and then saying.... "No, this one"

that's definitely her making a preference among the two and thus Johan was right.

Thats cool to think that I suppose.

Wow, now that I read back on my reply, I was in a hurry so I forgot to add the last line.

Sorry if I came off as too Direct or Pushy.

Aug 9, 2023 1:51 PM

#31