Why do people suggest this as a starting point?

Offline

Dec 2020

399

Varisus said:
It's quality as a "standalone work" aside, Fate/Zero is a substandard prequel.

Saber's character is inconsistent with her Stay Night self, with her own backstory and most egregious of all, her own words. It treats her as if she was a clown, and gives the viewers the wrong idea about her, going into Stay Night.

Kirei, iirc, also had a different turning point in Zero than in Stay Night, but my memory here is a bit fuzzy, so I'll leave it at that.

Watching Zero before Stay Night is like watching the Star Wars prequels before the original trilogy (each spoil the other, prequel released after the original), but if Ewan McGregor's Obi-wan was actually a manchild.

Urobuchi also said it himself: "I thought that Fate/Zero was a story you couldn't understand without playing Fate/Stay Night" (https://natalie.mu/comic/pp/elmelloi)

All in all, although every Fate anime failed at at least one thing it was trying to be and any newcomer here for the long run should start with the VN, the adaptations of Fate/Stay Night are still the best anime starting point.

Chief if I remember right several times the characters say they do not remember the previous holy grail wars if any and besides that even if it is a subpar standalone work if you are unable to understand it without watching fate stay night then its best you leave the fate franchise alone considering how convoluted it is

Being human is making mistakes.

Aug 17, 2022 7:10 PM

#7

tonitoni8

Offline

Dec 2021

47

Because It shows the life, personality and actions of Emiya Kiritsugu and some other information you learn what happened before he found Shirou. It's just Logic
Some people are like "don't watch that 1st ,it shows spoilers" I want to know the story I don't like to see an anime that is like "You remember what happened?..... that was bad" and never shows or speak of it again.

Aug 17, 2022 7:10 PM

#8

Saku_k

Offline

Dec 2008

669

Ikarus101 said:

Varisus said:
It's quality as a "standalone work" aside, Fate/Zero is a substandard prequel.

Saber's character is inconsistent with her Stay Night self, with her own backstory and most egregious of all, her own words. It treats her as if she was a clown, and gives the viewers the wrong idea about her, going into Stay Night.

Kirei, iirc, also had a different turning point in Zero than in Stay Night, but my memory here is a bit fuzzy, so I'll leave it at that.

Watching Zero before Stay Night is like watching the Star Wars prequels before the original trilogy (each spoil the other, prequel released after the original), but if Ewan McGregor's Obi-wan was actually a manchild.

Urobuchi also said it himself: "I thought that Fate/Zero was a story you couldn't understand without playing Fate/Stay Night" (https://natalie.mu/comic/pp/elmelloi)

All in all, although every Fate anime failed at at least one thing it was trying to be and any newcomer here for the long run should start with the VN, the adaptations of Fate/Stay Night are still the best anime starting point.

Chief if I remember right several times the characters say they do not remember the previous holy grail wars if any and besides that even if it is a subpar standalone work if you are unable to understand it without watching fate stay night then its best you leave the fate franchise alone considering how convoluted it is

Aug 17, 2022 7:19 PM

#9

KingofSUCC

Offline

Feb 2018

8

Imagine saying fate/zero is a bad place to start then immediately recommending a 60+ hour vn as a starting place lmao.

It honestly doesn’t matter where people start the fate series, with the two best places being either zero or unlimited blade works.
It’s really not that complicated.

Aug 17, 2022 7:42 PM

#10

Sibil_Khan

Offline

Apr 2021

6

KingofSUCC said:
Imagine saying fate/zero is a bad place to start then immediately recommending a 60+ hour vn as a starting place lmao.

It honestly doesn’t matter where people start the fate series, with the two best places being either zero or unlimited blade works.
It’s really not that complicated.

The VN is first of all isnt 60h its 20h or so and second of all with sabers character being changed in zero causes the viewer to see her as a weak and a clown character while in the VN she has her own ideas and goals and she feels empathy for shirou and there is a lot of stuff removed from the VN in the adaptations A LOT If you want to watch the anime you need to first read the VN cause without it Fate is just a mid franchise with good animation but the VN is a masterfully constructed and a beautifully built story while giving in depth reasons why the characters are who they are with an amazing atmosphere every route it will make you cry meanwhile making you smile for the characters its been building up

Aug 17, 2022 7:43 PM

#11

j0sh_183

Offline

May 2021

126

KingofSUCC said:
Imagine saying fate/zero is a bad place to start then immediately recommending a 60+ hour vn as a starting place lmao.

It honestly doesn’t matter where people start the fate series, with the two best places being either zero or unlimited blade works.
It’s really not that complicated.

ong tho, honestly I just don't wanna spend 100+ hours on a VN no matter how good it is, I wont have the patience or time for that tbh I got other things I wanna do 💀

Aug 17, 2022 7:47 PM

#12

Offline

Dec 2020

399

Saku_k said:

Ikarus101 said:

Chief if I remember right several times the characters say they do not remember the previous holy grail wars if any and besides that even if it is a subpar standalone work if you are unable to understand it without watching fate stay night then its best you leave the fate franchise alone considering how convoluted it is

Wasn’t she the one who said that in stay night and if not it doesn’t explain how she wouldn’t have recognized or responded differently when she learned who emiya was/is in UBW

Being human is making mistakes.

Aug 17, 2022 7:55 PM

#13

JeremiahOrange

Offline

Sep 2017

1899

People are too lazy to do the visual novel and they suggest fate zero or any other anime as a recourse.

but the problem is that none of the anime capture the essence of fsn. The true experience can only be achieved by seeing the fate route, then the ubw and the heavens feel route as in the vn. and most people don't want to bother with Deen stay night, even though it does start from the fate route, for consideration that it combines all 3 routes and doesn't have same quality of animation as the other works.

well guess what. fate zero gives off more spoilers and also doesn't fit in with the overall theme of fsn. It is very dark and depressing, compared to other anime of fsn, which follow a hero's journey more nearly. I started from fate zero and I was almost dissuaded from the franchise due to how much I hated the protagonists of fate zero.

fate zero is a good anime in retrospect if you watch it after knowing about the fsn route. but it's completely shit if you watch it first. Imagine if you watch star wars prequels before star wars. That's how watching fate zero before fsn feels like. There's nothing wrong with fate zero, just that it needs to be seen after fate stay night for completion. because you will miss out on a lot of Easter eggs fate zero teases about fate stay night. For instance: Kirei's first target of elimination in the first episode

gives more meaning only if you seen fsn before. similarly, Kiritsugu Emiya is meant to evoke

and so much more details.

Deen stay night isn't perfect. But it captures the fate route well and also explores each characters motivations. It is the first anime that established the voice actors of each character. But nobody recommends it anymore and instead recommend fate zero.

some do recommend the ubw anime as a starting point but I feel that ubw as good as it is, will not give justice to the fate route. Still, nothing's perfect and as far as fsn stands, the anime adaptations are still substandard compared to the vn. Some people recommend ubw because they don't want to throw off newcomers with Deen stay night and I can somewhat see that. but at the very least, they should be able to experience the fate route either from the vn or deen stay night. fate zero is a big no no.

if they find the vn too taxing to download or Play through, they can also use https://fatestaynight.vnovel.org/. For atleast the fate route.

Fate route is important for establishing the connection between saber and the main character and show off a bit about the main characters while also teasing some different characters who receive prominence in later arcs.

ubw abridged is meant to deconstruct the main characters ideologies and it serves as a good backdrop.

heavens feel wraps up the characters from the other arcs and gives another answer for the main character.

Without change,we end up becoming the very person we hate.

I was dead until the moment I met you. I was a powerless corpse pretending to be alive. Living without power, without the ability to change my course, was bound to lead me to a slow death.

Aug 17, 2022 8:03 PM

#14

Saku_k

Offline

Dec 2008

669

Ikarus101 said:

Saku_k said:

Wasn’t she the one who said that in stay night and if not it doesn’t explain how she wouldn’t have recognized or responded differently when she learned who emiya was/is in UBW

I'm guessing you aren't familiar with Saber's route? Considering the 2006 series isn't on your list.

Aug 17, 2022 8:12 PM

#15

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Dec 2020

399

Saku_k said:

Ikarus101 said:

Wasn’t she the one who said that in stay night and if not it doesn’t explain how she wouldn’t have recognized or responded differently when she learned who emiya was/is in UBW

I'm guessing you aren't familiar with Saber's route? Considering the 2006 series isn't on your list.

No I am not familiar with her route I could never find the 2006 version of stay night due to all the different publishing rights

Being human is making mistakes.

Aug 17, 2022 8:18 PM

#16

salad77

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Jan 2021

520

AntiVirgin said:

KingofSUCC said:
Imagine saying fate/zero is a bad place to start then immediately recommending a 60+ hour vn as a starting place lmao.

It honestly doesn’t matter where people start the fate series, with the two best places being either zero or unlimited blade works.
It’s really not that complicated.

ong tho, honestly I just don't wanna spend 100+ hours on a VN no matter how good it is, I wont have the patience or time for that tbh I got other things I wanna do 💀

i finished the vn in 2 weeks, its not that bad in length

Read the visual novel nerd

Aug 17, 2022 8:25 PM

#17

PhantomPoupe

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Oct 2020

117

I haven’t watched any Stay Night adaptation. Only Zero.
But the only thing that confused me when watching Zero was the ending, which was kinda rushed and left me needing to Google a few things.
A lot of people recommend Zero and Zero is a complete story of a nice length (25 episodes) compared to a story with various alternate routes n such. It was a great watch.
It’s hard for me to judge if it was the right decision to watch Zero first having not yet experienced Stay Night, but it was still a great anime that didn’t really confuse me.

Aug 17, 2022 8:32 PM

#18

Aslat24

Offline

Apr 2017

420

I started on Zero and didn’t feel lost or anything with the story. People say watching Zero first spoils Heavens Feel but in my case it just made me enjoy Heavens Feel more.

Aug 17, 2022 8:46 PM

#19

j0sh_183

Offline

May 2021

126

salad_farded said:

AntiVirgin said:

ong tho, honestly I just don't wanna spend 100+ hours on a VN no matter how good it is, I wont have the patience or time for that tbh I got other things I wanna do 💀

i finished the vn in 2 weeks, its not that bad in length

I mean yeah I get that, but I got school and shi, I don't really feel that motivated to play the VN, bro it took me so long to start One Piece cause of it's length

Aug 17, 2022 8:58 PM

#20

Void45_

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Jan 2019

131

It doesnt matter how ppl start tbh,and F/Z is an ok place to start (although far from ideal)

Aug 17, 2022 9:22 PM

#21

chubritsa

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Jan 2021

286

Idk I'm glad i didn't start with zero. I feel like i got more from starting with ubw.

チュブリツァ

Aug 17, 2022 9:37 PM

#22

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Jul 2018

564612

No Fate fan will admit this but it's true, Zero is the only good installment in the entire series. The rest of them are so embarrassingly boring and poorly written it's like a completely different franchise.

Aug 17, 2022 9:41 PM

#23

kakashis_sidehoe

Offline

Aug 2021

417

I watched UBW before zero because I’d heard that zero had a bunch of spoilers but tbh I found UBW spoiled zero more than zero spoiled UBW. I feel like you could honestly go either way though and it won’t matter much.

Aug 18, 2022 12:09 AM

#24

Brextol

Offline

Feb 2018

7

Artorias_SZ said:
No Fate fan will admit this but it's true, Zero is the only good installment in the entire series. The rest of them are so embarrassingly boring and poorly written it's like a completely different franchise.

I actually agree with you 100%.

Aug 18, 2022 12:19 AM

#25

Aruchemist

Offline

May 2021

572

Well yes I do regret watching Fate/Zero first, because it was the best Fate and it raised my standard too high for the other Fates which they failed to achieve. If I could turn back time I would start from 2006.

Don't care if Fate/Zero is non canon, it's still the best Fate anime style and substance wise.

Aug 18, 2022 12:34 AM

#26

Theo1899

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Jun 2016

12772

Because "it's the only good one" and "fate/stay night spoils fate/zero" apparently ingnoring the fact that fate/stay night is the original work.

MEA·MENTVLA·INGENS·EST

Aug 18, 2022 1:08 AM

#27

Offline

Aug 2022

15

Ikarus101 said:

Varisus said:
It's quality as a "standalone work" aside, Fate/Zero is a substandard prequel.

Saber's character is inconsistent with her Stay Night self, with her own backstory and most egregious of all, her own words. It treats her as if she was a clown, and gives the viewers the wrong idea about her, going into Stay Night.

Kirei, iirc, also had a different turning point in Zero than in Stay Night, but my memory here is a bit fuzzy, so I'll leave it at that.

Watching Zero before Stay Night is like watching the Star Wars prequels before the original trilogy (each spoil the other, prequel released after the original), but if Ewan McGregor's Obi-wan was actually a manchild.

Urobuchi also said it himself: "I thought that Fate/Zero was a story you couldn't understand without playing Fate/Stay Night" (https://natalie.mu/comic/pp/elmelloi)

All in all, although every Fate anime failed at at least one thing it was trying to be and any newcomer here for the long run should start with the VN, the adaptations of Fate/Stay Night are still the best anime starting point.

Chief if I remember right several times the characters say they do not remember the previous holy grail wars if any and besides that even if it is a subpar standalone work if you are unable to understand it without watching fate stay night then its best you leave the fate franchise alone considering how convoluted it is

Saber does remember the 4th Grail War. She had some dialogue about Kiri and remembers Kirei.

Aug 18, 2022 1:30 AM

#28

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Aug 2022

15

Artorias_SZ said:
No Fate fan will admit this but it's true, Zero is the only good installment in the entire series. The rest of them are so embarrassingly boring and poorly written it's like a completely different franchise.

You've watched 3 non-Zero Fate works my guy. Watch/read the source materials.

If you get wet from an edgy idealist mc, though, then there's not much here for you.

Aug 18, 2022 1:33 AM

#29

Offline

Jul 2018

564612

Varisus said:

Artorias_SZ said:
No Fate fan will admit this but it's true, Zero is the only good installment in the entire series. The rest of them are so embarrassingly boring and poorly written it's like a completely different franchise.

You've watched 3 non-Zero Fate works my guy. Watch/read the source materials.

If you get wet from an edgy idealist mc, though, then there's not much here for you.

and that's 3 too many, im not going through that again

Aug 18, 2022 1:41 AM

#30

Offline

Aug 2022

15

Artorias_SZ said:

Varisus said:

You've watched 3 non-Zero Fate works my guy. Watch/read the source materials.

If you get wet from an edgy idealist mc, though, then there's not much here for you.

and that's 3 too many, im not going through that again

3 subpar adaptations, (1 of them being 1/80 of the source material's main story length) isn't all the series has to offer, genius.

Aug 18, 2022 1:54 AM

#31

Offline

Aug 2022

15

INSANELYWP said:
ngl getting into fate is confusing asf. it doesn’t matter if you start at stay night or zero u gonna be reallllyyy confused just with the whole plot. so if you’re gonna be confused regardless i think it’s better to do that for the prequel so you can go into the 3 routes already familiar with the holy grail war and characters. at least that’s just what i think idrc which order is “better” nor am i going to berate anyone who watches differently

It isn't. The complexity is overblown by anitubers, "timeline guides" and the "watch the best part first" group.

Just watch 2006 - UBW - HF and branch out to other Fate or even Type-Moon works. Fate isn't supposed to be on any timeline or have a full watch order.

Aug 18, 2022 1:56 AM

#32

Offline

Jul 2018

564612

Varisus said:

Artorias_SZ said:

and that's 3 too many, im not going through that again

3 subpar adaptations, (1 of them being 1/80 of the source material's main story length) isn't all the series has to offer, genius.

Are you sponsored by Fate? your account has nothing on it except comments on this post. You also appear to be upset, try watching a better anime it might help :)

Aug 18, 2022 2:02 AM

#33

Offline

Aug 2022

15

Artorias_SZ said:

Varisus said:

3 subpar adaptations, (1 of them being 1/80 of the source material's main story length) isn't all the series has to offer, genius.

Are you sponsored by Fate? your account has nothing on it except comments on this post. You also appear to be upset, try watching a better anime it might help :)

I lurked here w/o an acc. Just got a little tired of uninformed and ignorant takes.

I'm already watching other anime, most Fate adaptations are terrible anyways.

Aug 18, 2022 4:08 AM

#34

PopCat14

Offline

Nov 2021

29

Because its the best Fate anime

Aug 18, 2022 4:17 AM

#35

offcrack

Offline

Aug 2020

207

It's because most people show some form of dunning kruger, and fate zero secondaries are incapable of looking at shows past their most surface level elements.

KingofSUCC said:
Imagine saying fate/zero is a bad place to start then immediately recommending a 60+ hour vn as a starting place lmao.

It honestly doesn’t matter where people start the fate series, with the two best places being either zero or unlimited blade works.
It’s really not that complicated.

literally everything you wrote in this post is wrong

Artorias_SZ said:

Varisus said:

3 subpar adaptations, (1 of them being 1/80 of the source material's main story length) isn't all the series has to offer, genius.

Are you sponsored by Fate? your account has nothing on it except comments on this post. You also appear to be upset, try watching a better anime it might help :)

kek imagine calling someone else upset after opening their profile to grasp at more straws

Aruchemist said:
it's still the best Fate anime style and substance wise.

>style wise
>has weaker animation than any of the other fate ufotable adaptations
>substance wise
>has weaker themes and characters than stay night
...?

Aug 18, 2022 4:33 AM

#36

Aruchemist

Offline

May 2021

572

offcrack said:

Aruchemist said:
it's still the best Fate anime style and substance wise.

>style wise
>has weaker animation than any of the other fate ufotable adaptations
>substance wise
>has weaker themes and characters than stay night
...?

Style is not solely visual animation, but also consists direction and scoring.

"Weaker themes and characters than Stay Night"
Sure, you are entitled to your opinion.

AruchemistAug 18, 2022 5:01 AM

Aug 18, 2022 5:17 AM

#37

offcrack

Offline

Aug 2020

207

Aruchemist said:

offcrack said:

>style wise
>has weaker animation than any of the other fate ufotable adaptations
>substance wise
>has weaker themes and characters than stay night
...?

Style is not solely visual animation, but also consists direction and scoring.

"Weaker themes and characters than Stay Night"
Sure, you are entitled to your opinion.

gets mogged hard by ubw's direction, 90% of kajiura work is terrible
The themes being explored much more elaborately in stay night is a fact. There is no world in which the battle shounen esque zero ln, nor the anime, can compete with a 100 hour character study visual novel in the way they explore their themes and characters.

Aug 18, 2022 5:23 AM

#38

Offline

Jul 2018

564612

offcrack said:
It's because most people show some form of dunning kruger, and fate zero secondaries are incapable of looking at shows past their most surface level elements.

KingofSUCC said:
Imagine saying fate/zero is a bad place to start then immediately recommending a 60+ hour vn as a starting place lmao.

It honestly doesn’t matter where people start the fate series, with the two best places being either zero or unlimited blade works.
It’s really not that complicated.

literally everything you wrote in this post is wrong

Artorias_SZ said:

Are you sponsored by Fate? your account has nothing on it except comments on this post. You also appear to be upset, try watching a better anime it might help :)

kek imagine calling someone else upset after opening their profile to grasp at more straws

Aruchemist said:
it's still the best Fate anime style and substance wise.

>style wise
>has weaker animation than any of the other fate ufotable adaptations
>substance wise
>has weaker themes and characters than stay night
...?

Hey dumbass, he opened my profile first. I was merely returning the favour to see what Fate shows he considers good. I called him upset because he has been snotty and sarcastic since his first quote. Next time mind your own business, we weren't talking to you.

Aug 18, 2022 5:32 AM

#39

Jhavibi

Offline

Jul 2021

73

Artorias_SZ said:
No Fate fan will admit this but it's true, Zero is the only good installment in the entire series. The rest of them are so embarrassingly boring and poorly written it's like a completely different franchise.

not all fate is bad, but I have to say that it is not good either, it also depends on whether you have played a game or liked an adaptation enough to get into its world

asas

Aug 18, 2022 5:34 AM

#40

YO_MAN_12345

Offline

Jul 2022

178

I actually started with Zero and it convinced me that Fate was a good franchise than I watched all the stay/Night adaptations and realized that Fate was a boring waifubait harem-esque battle royale series like many of it's kind and didn't bother with the rest of the franchise. I agree with you nobody should start fate series with zero as it convinces them that Fate is actually gonna be good when it is just mediocre in reality.

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Aug 18, 2022 6:39 AM

#41

Offline

Aug 2022

15

YO_MAN_12345 said:
I actually started with Zero and it convinced me that Fate was a good franchise than I watched all the stay/Night adaptations and realized that Fate was a boring waifubait harem-esque battle royale series like many of it's kind and didn't bother with the rest of the franchise. I agree with you nobody should start fate series with zero as it convinces them that Fate is actually gonna be good when it is just mediocre in reality.

Ufo did a terrible job with the anime so I can hardly blame you.

Aug 18, 2022 8:00 AM

#42