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Nov 9, 2016 2:44 AM
#1
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This isn't a political debate thread. Trolling or trivializing this thread or anyone in it will result in a club ban and appeals are not guaranteed to be heard.

LGBTQ Youth
Suicide Prevention Lifeline
I'm Alive (Text based? New to me, don't know it well.)

I'm sure there's more and I'm not 100% on how available these are worldwide, feel free to mention anything else you know of.

Other than that, please use this thread for what you need it for. If you're a lurker, you're welcome too. Sorry I can't provide more direction right now, I'm still a bit frazzled myself.
removed-userNov 9, 2016 2:52 AM
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Nov 9, 2016 7:50 AM
#2
Lilium Gardener

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Thanks for these. Donated to Trevor Project. This is a sad and infuriating day for all of us LGBTQ. Actually, for all of those in our country who have sense.
KingYoshiNov 9, 2016 2:39 PM
Nov 9, 2016 6:02 PM
#3

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As someone who is directly influenced by any new anti-LGBT policies, I am pretty terrified for this country.

That being said, I'm also fucking furious.

If you need to seethe, cry, or rage, please feel free to do so here. If you feel the need to express how incredibly hopeless you feel, you can do so here. And if you want to comfort others feeling the same, then by all means do.

My inbox is always open for those who wish to discuss their feelings privately, as sometimes what you're feeling can be too fragile to be put out for all. I understand that.

Please, everyone, take care.
"First of all: I am tired. I am true of heart!

And also: You are tired. You are true of heart!"
Nov 11, 2016 9:56 PM
#4
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I don't appreciate disingenuous discourse. Regardless of the intention, the result will always be wasting peoples efforts into producing more unnecessary discourse, a cycle that makes genuine discourse harder and harder to have. We should be strengthening our societies with real talk with the intention of solving real problems, something the internet should be a great tool for, not dividing ourselves with devil's advocates, shit-posting, concern trolling or regurgitation for the sake of making a strained point.

I'll be cleaning this thread up (both the mess and well intended responses) and we'll be restarting as what this is supposed to be, community initiated support for those who need it. I won't issue a ban but don't push it in the future.
removed-userNov 11, 2016 10:13 PM
Nov 14, 2016 5:27 PM
#5

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Yeah, it's infuriating and frightening. I'm not hopeless, but I'm really doubting all the strength of the good people in the world is enough. Of the two countries I love and would like to think I belong to, in one it became illegal to be gay again and someone who probably killed people for their religion is in charge. The other, the one I live in now, is the USA, so it's better but...
I know I've got lots of support from people I know, and I'm really grateful I have that, but every bit counts so thanks everyone. I can't say let's stay strong, but let's try.
Nov 16, 2016 10:27 AM
#6
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Does anyone else live in low population, homogeneous, outskirts? Have you ever escaped them?
Nov 16, 2016 2:20 PM
#7
Lilium Gardener

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I do live in an area I often refer to as a "shit hole." Basically, the area described. My county voted 82% Trump and is 96.7% white if that tells you anything. I absolutely hate it here and get out of the county every chance I can. Unfortunately, I do not currently have the means to leave permanently. Hopefully, one day, I will leave and never look back. Areas like this trap you in ways most people will never know or see.
KingYoshiJun 29, 2017 9:46 PM
Nov 16, 2016 2:38 PM
#8
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Trapped is the word. I can't even make too long of drives out of town anymore because I'm worried about putting too many more miles on the car. That goes and I'm just fucking done. Everyone talks about escaping but nobody ever manages too, at least not permanently.

I wonder if there are royal liberal millennial displacement charities.
Nov 16, 2016 2:51 PM
#9
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On another note, or maybe it's the same, I'm glad I took a little more from my mom than my dad and I'm glad that, as a child, my shared interest with both of them in late night television exposed me culturally in ways that my surroundings couldn't have. It might not have been much, but damn was I a racism hating four year old.

TV and culture was a bit different back then, keep in mind, because I'm in my late 70s as apparently some people think.
Nov 16, 2016 5:09 PM

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My town was definitely not the worst by any means - lower middle class white suburbia, where everyone has enough that they're trying to keep up with Joneses but are still struggling to put their kids through school. Unfortunately, most of them are staunch conservatives (cough my family) strictly because they worked hard to get somewhere so clearly everyone else can do the same. There's not a lot of blatant racism, but I do very clearly remember my father telling me when I was 12 that he 'wouldn't like it' if I dated a black man. Needless to say the gay thing is still pretty under wraps at this point.

The only way I got out was going massively in debt for school and then finding a semi-urban area that I liked and moved there. My situation is still far from ideal, but I think I would have died in that town if I hadn't done it.
"First of all: I am tired. I am true of heart!

And also: You are tired. You are true of heart!"
Nov 16, 2016 6:26 PM
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anindigomoon said:
he 'wouldn't like it' if I dated a black man.

Goooood news, dad! :V

Yeah, there's a descending tier in the generations here. Apparently my great grandfather was just short of a card carrying klan member that everyone was uncomfortable around. Then my grandfather who's mostly okay to be around at holidays, won't make too much of a fuss over black but Mexican . . . dear lord. Then my father who's almost always okay and won't talk too much about this stuff but the damnedest things just come out now and then.

Like out of nowhere, he one time said he had nothing against gays but they shouldn't raise kids because there's clearly something wrong with their heads. Apparently I wasn't able to hide my "where in the fuck did that come from??" expression because he immediately made a "uh, am I misinformed and just said something incredibly fucking stupid?" expression, followed by a lot of awkward silence.

I always knew it about the male side on his family but what I didn't realize for years was how bad it is on his mother's side. Sweet little old ladies get a little drunk and suddenly it's just a barrage of every slur you can imagine, so casual and unprovoked. Ugh. And of course, like all families as Chris Rock once noted, eventually we grew to where we started having a more diverse makeup. But where as my grandpa seems to be able to make exceptions for family fairly easy, grandma has just been unbearably rude at times.

My mom says things sometimes but I know it's just coming out as ignorance and when I try to explain to her, she 99% of the time she doesn't push back but tries to learn from it. She knows she was raised from a really prejudice family, she was glad to get away from that aspect of it by not living too close to any of them. She makes relatively minor mistakes but instilled on me that people are people.

I'm not doing the kids thing but I guess they'd be better than me somehow. Or way worse, as some sort of counter culture rebellion. Yeah fuck you, imaginary kid, I never wanted you to be real!
Nov 17, 2016 12:16 PM
Lilium Gardener

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My parents are not racist in the slightest, but they are christian, so there is plenty of nonsense that falls more in the bigot category. Primarily the, "I have nothing against gay people, but I just don't agree with it," section. Might as well just say what you really want to say, but I digress. Most of that has kind of stopped recently since they now know I'm an atheist. I didn't really want to say anything, but it was the only way to tone down the bible thumping (and it worked). As far as me being pansexual, I have no desire to tell either of them and doubt I ever will.

As far as the grandparents are concerned, they are quite racist and bigots. I heard my grandfather say "We should just kill them all," referring to gay marriage being legalized. My grandmother quickly agreed. They are divorced and agree on nothing, except killing "the gays" apparently. My grandmother also has been known to use a pen to black out the eyes of mixed race in-laws. Needless to say, I spend very little time with any "family" outside of my mother, father, sister, and my nieces.

I also knew at a young age that it was complete nonsense to dislike anyone for being different. I guess because I always looked at myself as being so much different than everyone around me.
Nov 17, 2016 3:33 PM
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In that regard, I was lucky. Because the normalization/defaultness of our culture, I was sort of a Christian by my own assumptions of not really understanding that there were other real options. It was all told to me in the same sort of way you might tell a kid about Santa Clause, only instead of being a child and crying when I learned one didn't exist, finding out the option of not believing in the other in my early teens was met with the sentiment of "oh thank fuck, this explains everything now!"

When I nervously confronted my mother on my new found lack of believe I was met with the most absurd non-sequitur "Oh, that's nice, I put pot roast in the oven earlier" brand of response I've ever heard. She actually taught me the word atheist, because that's what I didn't know all this time. It was almost embarrassing but I laugh thinking back at every time. Welp, mom's on my side, that's all I need. My dad's response was more of "yeah, me too, I guess. I don't know. If we really believed in God, we'd be Church goers wouldn't we?"

The rest of town wasn't so great about it, but for whatever reason I decided I wasn't keeping this one in and wore it pretty loud, not like I was popular to begin with. Dumbasses aside, I have softened my stances a tad. I don't get into religious battles for the sake of it anymore because I've found that even if I can get terrible people to put their religious shields down, they have no end of excuses for their behavior. If someone isn't being terrible, whatever, I don't get it but I won't pretend to be able to explain myself in full either. Just don't be terrible, for Christ's sake. Literally, if need be.
Nov 17, 2016 10:30 PM
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I remember why I brought this up, this being living in the middle of nowhere. No one to protest with. I can't find any good groups any where near me.
Nov 18, 2016 9:19 AM

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I almost feel bad for telling my story.

I came out of the closet about ten years ago. Wich is about the time Homosexual weddings were legalized in Canada now that I think about it. Strangely family wise it's not with my parents that I had problems with. Well my dad was pretty awkward about it for a while but it was more cute than anything.

No its with some of my aunts and uncles that I had the most problem with. I basically stoped being part of their family the moment they knew that. I had to avoid family christmas parties or things like that in the early years. I think that's when my father started to really understand and when he had to choose between a brother / sister and his daughter he realised he would always choose me.

These days not much as changed, I still have a few aunts that don't even want to look at me but sucks to be them because I'm coming to the parties anyway.

As for outside the family, well, I live in Montréal. A city in wich there's a gay pride parade almost every year. In a country where being racist or homophobiac basically brands you with the mark of satan. Sure there's assholes everywhere, but I feel safe.

I do wish that feeling of safety to all of you. I'm 100% behind you guys :)
Nov 29, 2016 12:21 AM

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I dunno, sorry to everyone reading this shit but it's 2 AM and the thoughts are just swirling around in my head so I'm just going to ramble on about stupid random shit and thoughts about myself for a while and post it.

Your religion story reminds me so much of myself. I'm agnostic (rather than atheist), but not the type of "agnostic" where people say that they believe in something, but that something isn't the Christian God or whatever; no, I'm agnostic because I believe it is as impossible to disprove the existence of a god as to prove it—
"To be certain of the existence of God and to be certain of the nonexistence of God seem to me to be the confident extremes in a subject so riddled with doubt and uncertainty as to inspire very little confidence indeed" (Carl Sagan).
If you look at the word agnostic, a- means "not, without", and gnost means "know"; I am a theistic agnostic in the purest sense of the word in that I doubt that any essential divine truth is knowable.

Recently, it occurred to me that I am agnostic in my convictions and beliefs about the world, humanity, society as well as religion—I've been feeling so incredibly self-conscious recently about my own ignorance. I know that the world is so incredibly complex that no one could ever hope to understand everything, and there are some people who don't understand anything. I had already accepted this, and resolved to strive towards learning as much as I can, to continually try to improve myself and expand my mind. But lately I've been so lacking in confidence, so incredibly diffident, that I doubt whether I even know the things I know, or if I am just one of those people who doesn't understand a single thing in the entire world.

Maybe I should go ahead and mention that I'm just a child. I'm a seventeen-year-old boy in his senior year of high school with no idea of what he wants to do with his life or where he wants to go to college or even if he's going to be able to live on his own at all. I've never been in a romantic relationship of any kind with anyone—I've never kissed a girl or a boy. I'm obsessed with lesbians, so it should come as no surprise that I'm attracted to girls. (Actually, wait, I don't like that sentence—I tried to phrase it as best I could, but it still sounds hetero-normative and prejudiced. Please know that I don't intend for it to be interpreted that way.) However, I've acquired a sort of distaste for heterosexuality (not to say that there is really anything distasteful about heterosexuality—I don't approve of my own prejudice against it), so I don't feel good about the possibility of being in a relationship with a girl, because I'm not a girl. I wouldn't consider any sort of gender transition, though, because I'm quite certain in my own gender: I am male, indeed, but I just wish that I weren't, which I view as quite different from believing that I'm not. I might be attracted to guys, though. I might be pan. I don't really know. I haven't had any sort of romantic experience whatsoever, so it's hard to tell.
WrongPriest Being a filthy male is suffering lol (Hope that doesn't seem creepy—I just read the club comments sometimes when I'm bored and supposed to be doing shit)

I can already see the comments telling me that I'm just young, I need to live life and experience the world in order to figure things out with myself. And they're probably right, that is what I need to do, but damn if it isn't frustrating! Here I am, a regular Raskolnikov. Intelligence is the quality I value the most. I view intelligence as my central character trait. (I'm also suffering from a grandly inflated ego, of course.) I think, and think, and think, and still I know nothing. It's torturous.

Ugh. Disgusting, discursive, disparate, insipid, pretentious, conceited, dramatic trash. But I've wasted too much time already to delete this, so I'm going to be brave and post it. My apologies.
Flip_Flap17Jun 29, 2017 9:46 PM
Nov 29, 2016 5:14 AM
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@ShinyKing Well, since you've already seen them coming, I'll go ahead and get the ball started. You are indeed young and you really shouldn't fret too much about what you don't know about yourself. I understand being in a constant state of deep thought, frustration and self-pondering. That might be what you're stuck with, as you'll always have something to wonder about even when you get to my ripe old age 95. But what you can take solace in is your honesty with yourself, your desire to figure things out and the fact that you're growing up in a generation that's going to be a lot smarter about things, such a gender identities, than any before them. I know it won't always seem like that, stupidity is pretty riled up right now but there's plenty of people on your side right now too, rooting for you. Stay safe and use your youth to your own advantage, there will never be a time more than now for you to keep learning about yourself and finding the people you need in your life.

In regards to Sagan, whom I do respect quite a bit, I think he and some other very smart people miss the forest for the trees sometimes in how they approach the God question. But I don't want to turn this into a huge religion thread, it just gets hard sometimes when part of our suffering has come from surroundings of people who use their religion as an excuse to be terrible. Those bad people aside, I want to stress that this thread is welcoming to those of all faiths, especially those who stand to be marginalized more than they have already been. And yes, to anyone who may not be aware, we've got a wide gamut of different faiths in our club and we always will.
Nov 29, 2016 9:50 PM

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ShinyKing Well, since you've already seen them coming, I'll go ahead and get the ball started. You are indeed young and you really shouldn't fret too much about what you don't know about yourself. I understand being in a constant state of deep thought, frustration and self-pondering. That might be what you're stuck with, as you'll always have something to wonder about even when you get to my ripe old age 95. But what you can take solace in is your honesty with yourself, your desire to figure things out and the fact that you're growing up in a generation that's going to be a lot smarter about things, such a gender identities, than any before them. I know it won't always seem like that, stupidity is pretty riled up right now but there's plenty of people on your side right now too, rooting for you. Stay safe and use your youth to your own advantage, there will never be a time more than now for you to keep learning about yourself and finding the people you need in your life.

In regards to Sagan, whom I do respect quite a bit, I think he and some other very smart people miss the forest for the trees sometimes in how they approach the God question. But I don't want to turn this into a huge religion thread, it just gets hard sometimes when part of our suffering has come from surroundings of people who use their religion as an excuse to be terrible. Those bad people aside, I want to stress that this thread is welcoming to those of all faiths, especially those who stand to be marginalized more than they have already been. And yes, to anyone who may not be aware, we've got a wide gamut of different faiths in our club and we always will.

Thank you, sincerely. I appreciate your kind advice, and I'm really taking it to heart. I realized that I'd been thinking so intensely on this one subject that my field of vision had narrowed until it seemed to eclipse all other thoughts. I need to shift my focus back to my friends and siblings, not only because it's pretty selfish of me to fixate on a particular aspect of myself, but also because they help me to gain a new perspective when we interact and exchange thoughts.
Flip_Flap17Jun 29, 2017 9:45 PM
Nov 30, 2016 6:01 AM
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ShinyKing said:
I need to shift my focus back to my friends and siblings, not only because it's pretty selfish of me to fixate on a particular aspect of myself, but also because they help me to gain a new perspective when we interact and exchange thoughts.

Sometimes the best self help comes from helping others, it could be worth finding out what you may be able to do for your friends and siblings. Either way, best of luck.
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It’s time to ditch the text file.
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