What Animation Production Studio do you think has a better shot at achieving this?
| As pointed out in another thread, it seems that batch produced elements of Shounen and Ecchi have lowered the quality and appeal of Mainstream Anime. This includes all levels of Fans and the General Public. What needs to be done to reach the largest audience, while keeping the quality of the anime consistent and enjoyable. Keeping it simple, let's stick to these Genres: Action and Drama. How steps and precautions would a studio need to take and what should be avoided that has compromised Mainstream Anime in the past. This includes length, art, culture, rating/maturity, music, and availability outlet. Feel free to add additional detail and criteria as you wish. If you know about Licensing Studios as well, such as Funimation and Neflix, feel free to include them in your post. Studios in poll [with some mainstream Titles]: Madhouse Titles include: One Punch Man, Death Note, Cardcaptor Sakura Production I.G Titles include: Ghost in the Shell, Kuroko No Basket, Psycho Pass Bones Titles include: Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood, Cowboy Bebop: The Movie, Soul Eater A-1 Pictures Titles include: Fairy Tail, Sword Art Online, Persona series Sunrise Titles include: Code Geass, Cowboy Bebop, Accel World |
LogicalInjusticeJun 28, 2016 5:49 PM
“There is no greater danger than underestimating your opponent.”― Lao Tzu    |
| make more protags like light and lelouch those oughta show sazae-san who's the boss of mainstream anime Otherwise, looking at past examples, we can see some patterns Length - 2 cour or more, pref 50+ episodes... not many examples in the latest years, and i think this is a bigger problem than "batch produced elements of Shounen and Ecchi " Art - cool guys doing cool stuff Culture - western friendly Rating/maturity - teen/young adult Music - most of the series you listed have really memorable tracks... j-pop-rock is cool Availability outlet is the strangest of the things you listed; the days of kids watching pokemon and naruto on tv are over, now it's all about the internet, where there's so much more non-anime stuff to do. I don't think we will see any 'largest audience' records anytime soon |
romagiaJun 28, 2016 4:47 PM
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| Well, in order to give a confident answer I would have to know more about animation and the technical aspects of creating an anime. Also, I would have to at least know some things about marketing anime...and I don't lol. So I won't speak on what I don't know, but I am pretty sure those would be important to focus on if a studio wanted to create another successful mainstream anime series. I don't think ecchi or shounen series are directly a problem, because you can create a well written ecchi or shounen anime. I'd like to see more anime creators and other staff members have more flexibility to create shows that resonate their emotions to viewers. There are anime series where you could feel something passionate as you watch it, even if it was a simple moe slice of life. It'd be nice to see more of this in anime, and every other entertainment media. Something may appear generic on the surface due to the calmness of the plot, but that doesn't mean there is nothing there to keep your mind stimulated. If the theme has a powerful message to it, and the characters grab your attention from the beginning to end, then that is more important than the genre or demographic it is listed as. I am sure op doesn't think genre and demographic is that much of a factor, but overall it'd be nice to see more creators feeling emotionally attached to their work and conveying that to the audience. ALSO, there aren't a lot of josei anime, but there are a lot of really good josei manga. So it'd also be nice to see more josei manga get adapted into anime series. |
KonaKoffeeJun 28, 2016 5:01 PM
 Banner credit to @turnip |
| Dude no ufotable? seriously why you always make a poll like this smh Also Sunrise needs more Gintama |
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| You mean to make legitimately great mainstream shows or to make things that are successful within large scale audience ? Just asking because some of the examples provided aren't necessarily good per say but they did make a huge boom in the medium. |
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| Actually adapting a finished work so the anime actually has a proper ending without filler maybe? Yeah, I'm kinda screwed finding anyone in the anime business who can pull that off.... |
| "Laws exist only for those who cannot live without clinging onto them." -Souske Aizen "Bleach"  |
KonaKoffee said: Well, in order to give a confident answer I don't think ecchi or shounen series are directly a problem, because you can create a well written ecchi or shounen anime. It'd be nice to see more of this in anime, and every other entertainment media. Something may appear generic on the surface due to the calmness of the plot, but that doesn't mean there is nothing there to keep your mind stimulated. If the theme has a power message to it, and the characters grab your attention from the beginning to end, then that is more important than the genre or demographic it is listed as. I am sure op doesn't think genre and demographic is that much of a factor, but overall it'd be nice to see more creators feeling emotionally attached to their work and conveying that to the audience. I agree, except you have to work in Ecchi slowly into the mainstream audience and eliminate fan service outright. You can have sexy attire or sexual elements, but it is redundant to a mainstream audience. We want as many people to have an opportunity to enjoy it as possible, and using Ecchi as a tool already kills a portion of that audience and possibly attaches a Stigma. Shounen has gotten where the audience range gets pretty narrow. Death Note, Ghost in the Shell, Cowboy Bebop, and others afaik get the balance between action and drama correct. @KingRequiem Making legitimately great mainstream shows. |
LogicalInjusticeJun 28, 2016 5:13 PM
“There is no greater danger than underestimating your opponent.”― Lao Tzu |
What Animation Production Studio do you think has a better shot at achieving this? the one who pours the most money into it. just look at OPM, so sexy. edit: of course, with examples like OPM and fairy tail, it's an adaption from a manga, you can't control the quality of story(unless you change it). you can't pay for good writers though, i thought you just meant animation. the biggest anime are shonen so that seems like a pretty good place to start, you're going to get a small and young demographic, but it's animation so a tad bit expected, historically those seem the most popular. |
ashfrliebertJun 28, 2016 5:07 PM
| ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ |
| Also we are getting closer already. I didn't even know this. Ghost in the Shell Live Action for 2017  So if we can make GOOD Mainstream Anime, we get to see more things like this. An actual BUDGET to make these movies with, instead of how we got Attack on Titan |
“There is no greater danger than underestimating your opponent.”― Lao Tzu |
LogicalInjustice said: don't stuff like game of thrones have plenty of sexual content that can be considered ecchi?KonaKoffee said: Well, in order to give a confident answer I don't think ecchi or shounen series are directly a problem, because you can create a well written ecchi or shounen anime. It'd be nice to see more of this in anime, and every other entertainment media. Something may appear generic on the surface due to the calmness of the plot, but that doesn't mean there is nothing there to keep your mind stimulated. If the theme has a power message to it, and the characters grab your attention from the beginning to end, then that is more important than the genre or demographic it is listed as. I am sure op doesn't think genre and demographic is that much of a factor, but overall it'd be nice to see more creators feeling emotionally attached to their work and conveying that to the audience. I agree, except you have to work in Ecchi solely into the mainstream audience and eliminate fan service outright. You can have sexy attire or sexual elements, but it is redundant to a mainstream audience. We want as many people to have an opportunity to enjoy it as possible, and using Ecchi as a tool already kills a portion of that audience and possibly attaches a Stigma. Shounen has gotten where the audience range gets pretty narrow. Death Note, Ghost in the Shell, Cowboy Bebop, and others afaik get the balance between action and drama correct. @KingRequiem Making legitimately great mainstream shows. fairy tale and code geass from your list have some ecchi elements too... "you have to work in Ecchi solely into the mainstream audience" and this part is weirdly worded... how does one work ecchi into the audience ? |
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| @romagia My bad, wasn't paying attention to the details of my post grammar oops. I meant You have to work in Ecchi slowly into the mainstream audience And those were just examples of the titles those studios have made, not the direction they should go. Some drama anime we have has too much needless ecchi that only serves fun/jokes without enough witty dialog or engagement. |
“There is no greater danger than underestimating your opponent.”― Lao Tzu |
romagia said: "you have to work in Ecchi solely into the mainstream audience" and this part is weirdly worded... how does one work ecchi into the audience ? Step 1: Pay for an all expense ticket to Cancun Step 2: Make sure the ticket is for the same time as Spring Break Step 3: Lots and lots of alcohol Step 4: Beach Step 5: Video camera Step 6: ??? Step 7: Nudity |
I'm also filled with pure-hearted ulterior motives. |
romagia said: don't stuff like game of thrones have plenty of sexual content that can be considered ecchi? fairy tale and code geass from your list have some ecchi elements too... "you have to work in Ecchi solely into the mainstream audience" and this part is weirdly worded... how does one work ecchi into the audience ? in the context of anime, it's used most commonly for more sexually explicit anime i'm pretty sure. which certainty attracts less people |
| ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ |
| First off I would highly disagree that shounen is a problem in terms of spreading shows to the general public, if anything it generally includes the most accessible shows to audiences. Case in point Dragonball Z Kai in recent years saw huge success on Nickelodeon which then led them to acquire YuGiOh and Digimon, granted Digimon was eventually moved from the network into its third season largely due to a lack of advertising. Disney not too long ago started airing Doraemon and Youkai Watch primarily to younger audiences. Cartoon Network still keeps around a handful of kid oriented anime for Saturday mornings but the biggest anime block is probably Toonami. Which currently is made up of dbz, mobile suit gundam iron-blooded orphans, hunter x hunter, samurai champloo (which ends in 2 weeks), naruto shippuden, one piece, and parasyte reruns which will probably be replaced. So out of the biggest anime block over half are mainstream shounen. That being said looking at the shows the block has aired in the past clearly the shows that become mainstream online will eventually make their way into the block. The only way to increase the spread past that point would to have more anime blocks with more accessible times with appropriate advertising. Which is almost entirely up to foreign distributors like Funimation, Sentai Filmworks, VIZ media, etc. which aren't included in the list. Or the cable networks that air the series. The studios I assume have very little influence in this regard aside from improved license negotiations which all of them have on lockdown. |
GamerDLMJun 28, 2016 5:44 PM
ashfrliebert said: romagia said: don't stuff like game of thrones have plenty of sexual content that can be considered ecchi? fairy tale and code geass from your list have some ecchi elements too... "you have to work in Ecchi solely into the mainstream audience" and this part is weirdly worded... how does one work ecchi into the audience ? in the context of anime, it's used most commonly for more sexually explicit anime i'm pretty sure. which certainty attracts less people Exactly. That is one great way of putting it. You use Ecchi/Shounen as much as you want, but remember those Genres start to become niche the more you use, which results in a smaller audience. Kind of the current situation we have with anime right now. GamerDLM said: First off I would highly disagree that shounen is a problem in terms of spreading shows to the general public, if anything it generally includes the most accessible shows to audiences. Case in point Dragonball Z Kai saw huge success on Nickelodeon which then led them to acquire YuGiOh and Digimon, granted Digimon was eventually moved from the network into its third season largely due to a lack of advertising. Disney not too long ago started airing Doraemon and Youkai Watch primarily to younger audiences. Cartoon Network still keeps around a handful of kid oriented anime for Saturday mornings but the biggest anime block is probably Toonami. Which currently is made up of dbz, mobile suit gundam iron-blooded orphans, hunter x hunter, samurai champloo (which ends in 2 weeks), naruto shippuden, one piece, and parasyte reruns which will probably be replaced. So out of the biggest anime block over half are mainstream shounen. That being said looking at the shows the block has aired in the past its clearly the shows that become mainstream online will eventually make their way into the block. The only way to increase the spread past that point would to have more anime blocks with more accessible times with appropriate advertising. Which is almost entirely up to foreign distributors like Funimation, Sentai Filmworks, VIZ media, etc. which aren't included in the list. The studios I assume have very little influence in this regard aside from improved license negotiations which all of them have on lockdown. What you just listed supports the stereotype that "Anime is for Kids". You can make Anime for kids, but that will only go so far. Sample Titles I said in the first post are prime examples of Anime non-fans have watched. That would be the equivalent of getting someone who never listens to X music to listen to a concert by a musician in the X genre. Anime for Kids is not the problem. It's the young adults - adults who will buy Blu-Rays, buy merchandise, and pay to see a movie in theaters. |
LogicalInjusticeJun 28, 2016 5:51 PM
“There is no greater danger than underestimating your opponent.”― Lao Tzu |
LogicalInjustice said: GamerDLM said: First off I would highly disagree that shounen is a problem in terms of spreading shows to the general public, if anything it generally includes the most accessible shows to audiences. Case in point Dragonball Z Kai saw huge success on Nickelodeon which then led them to acquire YuGiOh and Digimon, granted Digimon was eventually moved from the network into its third season largely due to a lack of advertising. Disney not too long ago started airing Doraemon and Youkai Watch primarily to younger audiences. Cartoon Network still keeps around a handful of kid oriented anime for Saturday mornings but the biggest anime block is probably Toonami. Which currently is made up of dbz, mobile suit gundam iron-blooded orphans, hunter x hunter, samurai champloo (which ends in 2 weeks), naruto shippuden, one piece, and parasyte reruns which will probably be replaced. So out of the biggest anime block over half are mainstream shounen. That being said looking at the shows the block has aired in the past its clearly the shows that become mainstream online will eventually make their way into the block. The only way to increase the spread past that point would to have more anime blocks with more accessible times with appropriate advertising. Which is almost entirely up to foreign distributors like Funimation, Sentai Filmworks, VIZ media, etc. which aren't included in the list. The studios I assume have very little influence in this regard aside from improved license negotiations which all of them have on lockdown. What you just listed supports the stereotype that "Anime is for Kids". You can make Anime for kids, but that will only go so far. Sample Titles I said in the first post are prime examples of Anime non-fans have watched. That would be the equivalent of getting someone who never listens to X music to listen to a concert by a musician in the X genre. Anime for Kids is not the problem. It's the young adults - adults who will buy Blu-Rays, buy merchandise, and pay to see a movie in theaters. Shounen is generally aimed at teenagers or young adults. However the past has shown that airing to younger audiences is huge in boosting large scale popularity. It's airing a mix in the same location that tends to draw in more people which could also be interpreted from Toonami's current line-up. However most anime that would be considered mature or violent can only really be aired on very specific networks or at very late time slots, so just like Japan. Quick Edit: Out of the list of series you included I've only seen maybe 7 of the examples aired on TV, the others primarily spread through online influence or word of mouth. So I can't say with confidence that non-anime fans have gotten into those particular series. |
GamerDLMJun 28, 2016 5:53 PM
| Look at the Western standards we currently have for Animation series right now [I'm excluding Comedies/Cartoons like Family Guy etc] Of those examples in the spoiler, Daria is the closest to Slice of Life, but it is pretty witty and sometimes brilliant. The problem with transitioning anime is that it has to be a movie or that it is too long. The standard sweet spot used is between 10 - 18 episodes per season. That is how you bundle them in Blu-Ray/DVD sets, Stream them, or make them readily available. @GamerDLM Western Audience Demographic [my guesses] for a similar series based on maturity: One Punch Man, Fairy Tail, Cardcaptor Sakura: Kid-Teen Code Geass, Sword Art Online, Psycho Pass: Teen - Young Adult Ghost in the Shell, Cowboy Bebop, and Death Note would probably be the standard I would set from the above for Young Adult+ |
LogicalInjusticeJun 28, 2016 6:15 PM
“There is no greater danger than underestimating your opponent.”― Lao Tzu |
LogicalInjustice said: Look at the Western standards we currently have for Animation series right now [I'm excluding Comedies/Cartoons like Family Guy etc] Of those examples in the spoiler, Daria is the closest to Slice of Life, but it is pretty witty and sometimes brilliant. The problem with transitioning anime is that it has to be a movie or that it is too long. The standard sweet spot used is between 10 - 18 episodes per season. That is how you bundle them in Blu-Ray/DVD sets, Stream them, or make them readily available. @GamerDLM Western Audience Demographic [my guesses] for a similar series based on maturity: One Punch Man, Fairy Tail, Cardcaptor Sakura: Kid-Teen Code Geass, Sword Art Online, Psycho Pass: Teen - Young Adult Ghost in the Shell, Cowboy Bebop, and Death Note would probably be the standard I would set from the above for Young Adult+ Your standards for western animation seem to be a bit skewed or dated. Particularly Daria finished airing over 14 years ago, Boondocks was popular and mimicked anime style series while being extremely controversial but also ended about 2 years ago. Robot Chicken and Archer kind of fall right in line with the comedy series you excluded, Archer just has a bit more focus on action. As for the maturity rating I would disagree with the kid-teen series. Cardcaptor Sakura is the only one I could see falling under kid-teen because that's moreso who it was targeted at. But One Punch Man and Fairy Tail would probably be more adult oriented than say SAO due to more lets say mature (lewd/violent) content as well as more adult humor. I mean One Punch Man is considered seinen. |
| @GamerDLM I'm referring to quality. We do not have many animated series besides things like Family Guy, Bob's Burgers etc. Archer, Boondocks, and the such are very rare. I meant dialog wise for the standards and art wise from Boondocks and Archer; i should have been more specific. Oops. Regarding the ratings [again with me failing on specifics], those level themes and animation can be easily catered to those age ranges. Kids - One Punch Man. Dial down the graphics and make it funny. I know watered-down One Punch Man doesn't make the fans happen, but it would sell with the kids. It's an easy concept to figure out, would make great Merchandise, and is quite plausible on the big screen or as an action figure. Fairy Tail. Kind of the same thing, but increase the quality of the animation and story from cartoons like Kirby and Sonic. The rest could say as it or be more tailored to the audience.  Without the adult dialog and violence, I can see it working. Look at Superman. It is multi-age depending on how it's portrayed. |
LogicalInjusticeJun 28, 2016 7:10 PM
“There is no greater danger than underestimating your opponent.”― Lao Tzu |
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