| It's difficult. They immediately become the subjects of lolicon fetishism. In a sense, if we want to depict someone who is affirmative to us, we have no choice but to make them as lovely as possible. But now, there are too many people who shamelessly depict [such heroines] as if they just want [such girls] as pets, and things are escalating more and more. —Hayao Miyazaki, now.... what did miyazaki mean by this? He begins calling it "difficult"... I think what he means to say is that it's not easy to say whether a character is good or not based on cuteness. Often times moe is dismissed as a lesser genre, when often times it isn't. And a lot of characters are dismissed as "moeblobs" based on appearance alone. I don't think miyazaki had issues with how moe girls are drawn, nor moe itself. I interpret this as saying that while moe as an idea could work, often times cuteness is a substitute for characters... Miyazaki made usre all his characters had unique personalities and weren't just there to show cute images in your face. I don't think Miyazaki wanted to bash moe, but rather, that he wanted to affirm that being super cute isn't enough. Being cute is great. I love cuteness. I love anime with cute girls doing cute things... but the problem is that's not enough. You gotta be cute AND original, unique and charismatic. And cuteness isn't just how characters drawn. Milly from Trigun had a bulky, disproportionate and not too appealing body. Her whole design is just off... I don't know if she has thick clothes or is just really big boned. But still... they make her cute due to her personality, not cause of her looks |
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| No that's not what he's saying. He's it hard to draw a cute "moe" protagonist without some lolicon freak sexualizing her. He's bashing how anime is now catered to such creeps. So basically, yes he bashing the huge supply of moe anime in recent years. I don't even understand how you came to that conclusion. |
[center] [/center] |
| Mr. Butthurt is scared of his cute creations being sexualized. He needs to deal with it, no one else but him even cares about a few loli artists drawing porn of any cute characters they created. |
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vitaxlilium said: No that's not what he's saying. He's it hard to draw a cute "moe" protagonist without some lolicon freak sexualizing her. He's bashing how anime is now catered to such creeps. So basically, yes he bashing the huge supply of moe anime in recent years. I don't even understand how you came to that conclusion. because he uses the word "pet".... I think that doesn't just denote the possessive and sexualization of the characters, but also the lack of depth and personality. We don't just sexualize them, but we also make anime where their characters are more 2 dimensional to fit the most basic character archetypes that are considered "cute"... when characterization is a less of a priority than cuteness, it's easier for characters to be looked at as just sexualized loli characters |
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| Why do u keep bringing up this shit? Really? Are you obsessed with lolis and lolicons? Really, who cares? |
PoeticJustice said: Why do u keep bringing up this shit? Really? Are you obsessed with lolis and lolicons? Really, who cares? |
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PoeticJustice said: Why do u keep bringing up this shit? Really? Are you obsessed with lolis and lolicons? Really, who cares? I'm not talking about loli's so much as I'm talking about how a lot of anime puts more of an emphasis on girls being cute than having unique personalities |
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tr1ckst3r said: PoeticJustice said: Why do u keep bringing up this shit? Really? Are you obsessed with lolis and lolicons? Really, who cares? But...this thread isn't even about loli/lolicons, it's about "moe" Eh. Well, whatever. I don't pay attention to these threads. |
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tr1ckst3r said: PoeticJustice said: Why do u keep bringing up this shit? Really? Are you obsessed with lolis and lolicons? Really, who cares? |
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| Thr difficulty here is having his characters and drawings taken in a way that he never meant to be portrayed. He's unhappy that people even begin to think that way when his goal is to make them 'lovely' in the way he thinks they should be. I agree with vitaxlilium His focus is not on personalities of them but their actual physical attributes You're reading way too into this |
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| I agree with Miyazaki. |
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| Miyazaki is basically saying moe is becoming a fetish. Wikipedia explains it the best http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moe_%28slang%29 As the first decade of the 2000s unfolded, moé became increasing popular and recognized, invoking a commercial interest in manufacturing and exploiting moé. As this process occurred, moé evolved from being a non-sexual desire to hug, love, and protect to being a sexually sublimated fascination with cuteness. Moé shifted entirely from a two-way interchange between character and viewer to becoming distinctly a characteristic of particular characters or a focused fetish of viewers. Particularly anime including K-On, Lucky Star, and Moetan deliberately revolved around adorable, whimsical, clumsy, early-adolescent girl characters in order to evoke, enflame, and manipulate the interests and affections of viewers. These characters no longer evoked moé feelings; they were literally moé characters – not characters that naturally and unconsciously evoked a paternal reaction from viewers, but rather characters that were the physical manifestation of the defining characteristics of the moé movement. These girl characters were adorably cute, just a bit sexually appealing, and self-conscious but not yet cynical. They demanded notice and adoration from viewers rather than passively earning adoration and protective feelings. |
DrGeroCreationJan 29, 2015 7:56 PM
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DrGeroCreation said: I agree with Miyazaki. |
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Feaor said: ...and thus the emo-granddad meme was born. |
| Oh look, the honorable internet warriors defending the honor of lolis. You know what? Children are raped and abducted everyday, but you can sit behind your computers and complain about how "Lolis make you uncomfortable, and cater to pedophiles." Flexing like you are goddamn Gandhi on the internet. |
| Finally a thread of yours that didn't make me cringe... PoeticJustice said: Clap Clap Clap* Can i make this my sig?Oh look, the honorable internet warriors defending the honor of lolis. You know what? Children are raped and abducted everyday, but you can sit behind your computers and complain about how "Lolis make you uncomfortable, and cater to pedophiles." Flexing like you are goddamn Gandhi on the internet. |
FragOutFire said: Why am I a Berserk fan? All I ever experience is pain. We are in the eclipse and Miura has sacrificed us |
PoeticJustice said: Oh look, the honorable internet warriors defending the honor of lolis. You know what? Children are raped and abducted everyday, but you can sit behind your computers and complain about how "Lolis make you uncomfortable, and cater to pedophiles." Flexing like you are goddamn Gandhi on the internet. It's what happens when your brain is on morals instead of common sense. |
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| I can't take a guy who has "retired" 1000 times seriously. |
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PoeticJustice said: I don't think this thread has anything to do with morality of liking lolis.Oh look, the honorable internet warriors defending the honor of lolis. You know what? Children are raped and abducted everyday, but you can sit behind your computers and complain about how "Lolis make you uncomfortable, and cater to pedophiles." Flexing like you are goddamn Gandhi on the internet. |
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PriestSlayer said: Clap Clap Clap* Can i make this my sig? sure bruh. |
PoeticJustice said: Oh look, the honorable internet warriors defending the honor of lolis. You know what? Children are raped and abducted everyday, but you can sit behind your computers and complain about how "Lolis make you uncomfortable, and cater to pedophiles." Flexing like you are goddamn Gandhi on the internet. well... sorry if you got that impression... not at all what I was trying to say though. |
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silversongwriter said: PoeticJustice said: Oh look, the honorable internet warriors defending the honor of lolis. You know what? Children are raped and abducted everyday, but you can sit behind your computers and complain about how "Lolis make you uncomfortable, and cater to pedophiles." Flexing like you are goddamn Gandhi on the internet. well... sorry if you got that impression... not at all what I was trying to say though. My bad, I just read the first sentence and I got pissed. |
Hoppy said: Mr. Butthurt is scared of his cute creations being sexualized. He needs to deal with it, no one else but him even cares about a few loli artists drawing porn of any cute characters they created. problem with that is that what anime fans want is often what they get... so when there's a big demand for that sort of things, we get a lot of that sort of things. That's why we see such sexualization of underaged characters... it's why we see bland, unoriginal moe shit too... it's why we get most of the things anime fans complain about. I know this from MLP... fans desire reflect the kind of anime we get. I guess we shouldn't complain about unoriginal moe or loli... it's the fault of anime fans we got them... that's what's wrong with the industry... catering to the lowest common denominator |
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silversongwriter said: Hoppy said: Mr. Butthurt is scared of his cute creations being sexualized. He needs to deal with it, no one else but him even cares about a few loli artists drawing porn of any cute characters they created. problem with that is that what anime fans want is often what they get... so when there's a big demand for that sort of things, we get a lot of that sort of things. That's why we see such sexualization of underaged characters... it's why we see bland, unoriginal moe shit too... it's why we get most of the things anime fans complain about. I know this from MLP... fans desire reflect the kind of anime we get. I guess we shouldn't complain about unoriginal moe or loli... it's the fault of anime fans we got them... that's what's wrong with the industry... catering to the lowest common denominator So who should the industry cater to? Internet anime fans who think moe killed anime? That's not a good market choice. |
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| lol I've seen countless threads around these internet around these fake Miyazaki quotes. "Anime was a mistake, it's nothing but trash" |
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Kagami_Hiiragi said: It should cater to Ping Pong fans!silversongwriter said: problem with that is that what anime fans want is often what they get... so when there's a big demand for that sort of things, we get a lot of that sort of things. That's why we see such sexualization of underaged characters... it's why we see bland, unoriginal moe shit too... it's why we get most of the things anime fans complain about. I know this from MLP... fans desire reflect the kind of anime we get. I guess we shouldn't complain about unoriginal moe or loli... it's the fault of anime fans we got them... that's what's wrong with the industry... catering to the lowest common denominator So who should the industry cater to? Internet anime fans who think moe killed anime? That's not a good market choice. |
FragOutFire said: Why am I a Berserk fan? All I ever experience is pain. We are in the eclipse and Miura has sacrificed us |
| Seriously, why do people keep bringing up this kind of thread? Just when one loli thread dies out, other appears. All you need to to is to mention loli and lolicon and things will go to shit. Now we have to wait another god know how long for this thread to die out. Who will be next you sons of bitches? |
| Ad Astra Per Aspera |
Kagami_Hiiragi said: silversongwriter said: problem with that is that what anime fans want is often what they get... so when there's a big demand for that sort of things, we get a lot of that sort of things. That's why we see such sexualization of underaged characters... it's why we see bland, unoriginal moe shit too... it's why we get most of the things anime fans complain about. I know this from MLP... fans desire reflect the kind of anime we get. I guess we shouldn't complain about unoriginal moe or loli... it's the fault of anime fans we got them... that's what's wrong with the industry... catering to the lowest common denominator So who should the industry cater to? Internet anime fans who think moe killed anime? That's not a good market choice. Most of the complainers don't support the industry. While many of the moe and loli lovers do support it A LOT!!!! |
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Hoppy said: Japanese otaku moe and loli lovers. What proof do you have that most western loli and moe fans always support the industry?Kagami_Hiiragi said: So who should the industry cater to? Internet anime fans who think moe killed anime? That's not a good market choice. Most of the complainers don't support the industry. While many of the moe and loli lovers do support it A LOT!!!! |
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DrGeroCreation said: As if it really matters what overseas fans actually do to support the industry.Japanese otaku moe and loli lovers. What proof do you have that most western loli and moe fans always support the industry? |
Feaor said: Yeah people here always make it abundantly clear that non Japanese fans don't matter to the industry yet still turn around and say that if you want to see certain trends in anime you have to support the industry. SMH (Scratching My Head).DrGeroCreation said: As if it really matters what overseas fans actually do to support the industry.Japanese otaku moe and loli lovers. What proof do you have that most western loli and moe fans always support the industry? |
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DrGeroCreation said: The only real way overseas fans can actually influence production in a meaningful way is through Kickstarters like Little Witch Academia and Under the Dog.Feaor said: Yeah people here always make it abundantly clear that non Japanese fans don't matter to the industry yet still turn around and say that if you want to see certain stuff in anime you have to support the industry. SMH (Scratching My Head).As if it really matters what overseas fans actually do to support the industry. |
DrGeroCreation said: Feaor said: Yeah people here always make it abundantly clear that non Japanese fans don't matter to the industry yet still turn around and say that if you want to see certain trends in anime you have to support the industry. SMH (Scratching My Head).As if it really matters what overseas fans actually do to support the industry. How a foreigner can support the industry? For BDs, manga, and CDs buy whatever you want + Ship to a Japanese address (the easiest way is to use a fowarding service) or just buy it at a store in Japan = supporting industry as it will get counted that way For merchandise, just get at a site based in Japan. Lesson over |
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Hoppy said: Japanese otakus would still have the upper hand and the influence over the industry because they don't have to worry about high shipping fees and have easier access so their consumption would still be greater.DrGeroCreation said: Yeah people here always make it abundantly clear that non Japanese fans don't matter to the industry yet still turn around and say that if you want to see certain trends in anime you have to support the industry. SMH (Scratching My Head). How a foreigner can support the industry? For BDs, manga, and CDs buy whatever you want + Ship to a Japanese address (the easiest way is to use a fowarding service) or just buy it at a store in Japan = supporting industry as it will get counted that way For merchandise, just get at a site based in Japan. Lesson over |
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DrGeroCreation said: Hoppy said: Japanese otakus would still have the upper hand and the influence over the industry because they don't have to worry about high shipping fees and have easier access so their consumption would still be greater.How a foreigner can support the industry? For BDs, manga, and CDs buy whatever you want + Ship to a Japanese address (the easiest way is to use a fowarding service) or just buy it at a store in Japan = supporting industry as it will get counted that way For merchandise, just get at a site based in Japan. Lesson over While true, that doesn't mean you shouldn't try though if you liked an anime. |
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bolbyinc said: tr1ckst3r said: |
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DrGeroCreation said: Feaor said: Yeah people here always make it abundantly clear that non Japanese fans don't matter to the industry yet still turn around and say that if you want to see certain trends in anime you have to support the industry. SMH (Scratching My Head).As if it really matters what overseas fans actually do to support the industry. What bothers me (just certain forums in general) are people who complain how shitty anime is and think moe ruined anime. Its fine if you want to complain, but if you want change support the industry and think about it from a market perspective. I feel the industry is fine and support the industry also. |
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Dojourei said: bolbyinc said: |
   I envy your delusion; I wish I could live in it  |
Hoppy said: Well that's my point . It's BS when people here always say that if someone doesn't like moe or whatever that they should be supporting the industry when the reality is it doesn't matter. The industry is strongly in Japanese otakus' hands.DrGeroCreation said: Japanese otakus would still have the upper hand and the influence over the industry because they don't have to worry about high shipping fees and have easier access so their consumption would still be greater. While true, that doesn't mean you shouldn't try though if you liked an anime. |
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And that's how it should be. @ bold |
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And that's how it should be. @ bold[/quote] Why? Then it could possibly stagnate in the future. Feaor said: That might be the only small way.The only real way overseas fans can actually influence production in a meaningful way is through Kickstarters like Little Witch Academia and Under the Dog. |
DrGeroCreationJan 29, 2015 9:25 PM
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DrGeroCreation said: Why? Then it could possibly stagnate in the future.[/quote]And that's how it should be. @ bold The industry has been fine with a predominately Otaku market for decades. |
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| not this shit again |
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| As long as people over there support it like they do now I doubt it will stop anytime soon (if that's what you mean). I'm not denying the popularity of anime in the west, but anime is mostly a Japan thing and nobody can argue the Japanese should hold the direction of the industry in their palms. What one finds shit, they may like. Just how it is. |
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| Who gives a poop anymore |
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Hoppy said: Kagami_Hiiragi said: So who should the industry cater to? Internet anime fans who think moe killed anime? That's not a good market choice. Most of the complainers don't support the industry. While many of the moe and loli lovers do support it A LOT!!!! I don't hate moe anime.. or loli anime either (as long as it's not too ecchi) I just want more of it to be good. Honestly, so much of it gives moe anime a bad name. I can name plenty of amazing moe anime... and they're amazing is because they know there's more to a good show than "D'awww, dat's cute" |
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Hoppy said: DrGeroCreation said: Why? Then it could possibly stagnate in the future.And that's how it should be. @ bold The industry has been fine with a predominately Otaku market for decades.[/quote] I'm not talking money wise but content wise when I refer to stagnation. |
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Kagami_Hiiragi said: I don't mean the industry would die but probably become stagnant content wise and more niche.As long as people over there support it like they do now I doubt it will stop anytime soon (if that's what you mean). I'm not denying the popularity of anime in the west, but anime is mostly a Japan thing and nobody can argue the Japanese should hold the direction of the industry in their palms. What one finds shit, they may like. Just how it is. |
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