| I agree that visual novels are very hard to translate into anime; much harder than manga and (light) novels. And, as far as I know, some VNs have "true route" (example: Key's visual novels), some don't; but usually, each of the route is alternate story which answers the "What if MC did something differently". For some VN adaptations you can, to a certain extent mix all routes while emphasizing one "true" route (I think Clannad and Little Busters! did this pretty well; I heard Grisaia tried it as well and failed miserably, but as I didn't watch nor read Grisaia I can't comment it), while of others that spells doom to the adaptation (Studio DEEN's Fate/Stay Night is a clear example of what happens when you try to mix routes where it isn't possible). For Fate/Stay Night, animating each route separately is best choice. |
astroprogs said: If HF ended up being a single movie, what would it need to do so it can get a high score from all of you? Not air. |
| I thin S;G also combined elements of multiple routes. But it doesn't work for Fate. |
Insertanamehere said: GrumpyWolf said: Its not about that. Usually in vns theres a true route right? Uuuuh.....not really? Some VN's but not "usually", I don't think. Cant say for sure i dont really have that much experience on vns. The ones i played usually had. ANGRY2011 said: GrumpyWolf said: I see. Imo it doesnt really work in anime format. It still looks pretty though. Ty for clarifying. Eh, it could work just fine. Just think of them as three separate stories that all start from the same point and have related themes, which then form a more cohesive meta-narrative experience. Of course, the problem is the first route isn't properly adapted, so.... Well for people like me who got into Fate with FZ i dont think it really works. The focus of the story is different and u can see people complaining every episode. Im not trying to say F/SN is worse or better its just different. I enjoyed more FZ storytelling and wish there was a similar sequel but F/SN is not that. |
ok000Jan 4, 2015 4:17 PM
GrumpyWolf said: Insertanamehere said: Uuuuh.....not really? Some VN's but not "usually", I don't think. Cant say for sure i dont really have that much experience on vns. The ones i played usually had. Most of Key's Visual novels do this, as well as some others. There are some from Key that would be hard to adapt into Anime without adapting everything. Rewrite would be an example of this. In FSN's case it's more of a 3 separate stories taking place in 3 alternate realities. Fate route deals with Saber mostly, UBW deals with Shirou, Rin, and Archer, HF deals with Ilya, Kotomine, Sakura and Zouken. There stories are all concluded in there seperate routes. There is also an over all story about the Grail that is explained overall 3 routes. The Grail War is the focus in Fate/Zero, plus it is a kind of center point that allows all 3 separate realities to happen. Fate/Zero basically sets up the 3 possibilites. All this is a small story in the overall universe in which it takes place, there are other series in the universe that has all lore connected in a way. They are not really necessary to enjoy one route of FSN, but they do enhance the overall experience since you have a better understanding of how the universe works. I'll use Mystic Eyes for example, there are 2 characters in FSN that can use them in Heaven's Feel... I think. Kara No Kyoukai's Main Character has one of the Mystic Eyes ability there is another character in that series that opposes her with her own type of Mystic Eye ability also. |
 |
GrumpyWolf said: ANGRY2011 said: Eh, it could work just fine. Just think of them as three separate stories that all start from the same point and have related themes, which then form a more cohesive meta-narrative experience. Of course, the problem is the first route isn't properly adapted, so.... Well for people like me who got into Fate with FZ i dont think it really works. The focus of the story is different and u can see people complaining every episode. Im not trying to say F/SN is worse or better its just different. I enjoyed more FZ storytelling and wish there was a similar sequel but F/SN is not that. It is very true that F/SN is a different story from F/Z. Unfortunately, F/SN is not a sequel to F/Z, F/Z is a prequel to F/SN. The distinction may seem subtle or unimportant on the surface, but it is actually very important. F/SN does not seek to continue F/Z, or do anything for F/Z, since it is the original. Rather, F/Z is intended to provide further insight and back story that was only hinted at in F/SN. Such is the danger of watching/experiencing something out of the intended order, but there isn't really anything that can be done about it. You either learn to appreciate F/SN on its own merits, or you complain that the original story isn't like the prequel. |
ANGRY2011Jan 4, 2015 4:24 PM
 |
Adab1za said: GrumpyWolf said: Cant say for sure i dont really have that much experience on vns. The ones i played usually had. not every VN has a true end Grisaia no kajetsu (even the sequel reference to all routes with a bit of changing) and Remember 11(i think ?) don't have one Well i only played the Zero Escape series, Danganronpa series, G-senjou no Maou and Kara no Shoujo. Dangan being the only one without true route or ending. Kamipriest said: Most of Key's Visual novels do this, as well as some others. There are some from Key that would be hard to adapt into Anime without adapting everything. Rewrite would be an example of this. In FSN's case it's more of a 3 separate stories taking place in 3 alternate realities. Fate route deals with Saber mostly, UBW deals with Shirou, Rin, and Archer, HF deals with Ilya, Kotomine, Sakura and Zouken. There stories are all concluded in there seperate routes. There is also an over all story about the Grail that is explained overall 3 routes. The Grail War is the focus in Fate/Zero, plus it is a kind of center point that allows all 3 separate realities to happen. Fate/Zero basically sets up the 3 possibilites. All this is a small story in the overall universe in which it takes place, there are other series in the universe that has all lore connected in a way. They are not really necessary to enjoy one route of FSN, but they do enhance the overall experience since you have a better understanding of how the universe works. I'll use Mystic Eyes for example, there are 2 characters in FSN that can use them in Heaven's Feel... I think. Kara No Kyoukai's Main Character has one of the Mystic Eyes ability there is another character in that series that opposes her with her own type of Mystic Eye ability also. ANGRY2011 said: It is very true that F/SN is a different story from F/Z. Unfortunately, F/SN is not a sequel to F/Z, F/Z is a prequel to F/SN. The distinction may seem subtle or unimportant on the surface, but it is actually very important. F/SN does not seek to continue F/Z, or do anything for F/Z, since it is the original. Rather, F/Z is intended to provide further insight and back story that was only hinted at in F/SN. Such is the danger of watching/experiencing something out of the intended order, but there isn't really anything that can be done about it. You either learn to appreciate F/SN on its own merits, or you complain that the original story isn't like the prequel. I see. I just like FZ focus on the war and every master and servant motivation on winning it. From what Ive seen and heard F/SN focuses on different routes and the message each one tries to send. Anyway even if i had watched F/SN first i would still enjoy FZ more. |
ok000Jan 4, 2015 4:41 PM
GrumpyWolf said: Anyway even if i had watched F/SN first i would still enjoy FZ more. not to be rude or pompous or anything but there's a reason the vast majority of people who say they prefer FZ haven't seen the full FSN story |
| And I mean that in the most sexually painful way possible. |
| F/Z had to be written like that because it has to show how situation in F/SN comes into existance. Once you see both UBW and HF (and hopefully read Fate at one point), you'll probably understand why. ;) EDIT: And by the way, just to clear the misunderstanding: Fate/Stay Night focuses on Shirou's development as a person and his dealing with his own ideal, and also to great extent on Rin's inner conflict between her human self and mage self. Each of the routes just shows how Shirou can develop differently. EDIT 2: Rephrased first sentence of first edit to sound less like an asshole. It wasn't my intent to sound like that. Sorry :/ |
AuriochJan 4, 2015 4:57 PM
astroprogs said: If HF ended up being a single movie, what would it need to do so it can get a high score from all of you? Not air. |
JabonHR said: GrumpyWolf said: Anyway even if i had watched F/SN first i would still enjoy FZ more. not to be rude or pompous or anything but there's a reason the vast majority of people who say they prefer FZ haven't seen the full FSN story The vast majority of people who say they prefer FZ dont explain why they like it. They only say Shirou is horrible or the slice of life ruins it or its more shounen etc... |
GrumpyWolf said: JabonHR said: not to be rude or pompous or anything but there's a reason the vast majority of people who say they prefer FZ haven't seen the full FSN story The vast majority of people who say they prefer FZ dont explain why they like it. They only say Shirou is horrible or the slice of life ruins it or its more shounen etc... Exactly, I mean I don't really mind if someone likes FZ more, but when they say stuff like that it pisses me off. They don't even understand what it's about and attack it with arguments like those. |
|
GrumpyWolf said: I see. I just like FZ focus on the war and every master and servant motivation on winning it. From what Ive seen and heard F/SN focuses on different routes and the message each one tries to send. Anyway even if i had watched F/SN first i would still enjoy FZ more. Yes, F/Z does focus more on telling a "Grail War" story. If that's what you like, that's what you like. It may be a bit of an assumption on your part to say you'd like F/Z more anyway, when you haven't fully experienced F/SN, but your preferences are your preferences, no big deal. As long as you aren't shitposting (and you aren't) feel free to enjoy whatever you want. |
|
Kamipriest said: GrumpyWolf said: The vast majority of people who say they prefer FZ dont explain why they like it. They only say Shirou is horrible or the slice of life ruins it or its more shounen etc... Exactly, I mean I don't really mind if someone likes FZ more, but when they say stuff like that it pisses me off. They don't even understand what it's about and attack it with arguments like those. And I dont mind people liking F/SN more but some people shoud just stop trying to play the ignorant card on someone who hasnt read the vn or dont want to read it. Yeah some are definitely ignorant or just trolls though. |
GrumpyWolf said: Kamipriest said: Exactly, I mean I don't really mind if someone likes FZ more, but when they say stuff like that it pisses me off. They don't even understand what it's about and attack it with arguments like those. And I dont mind people liking F/SN more but some people shoud just stop trying to play the ignorant card on someone who hasnt read the vn or dont want to read it. Yeah some are definitely ignorant or just trolls though. We won't use that anymore AFTER the second cour is finished. Right now, such comments are still ignorant. |
GrumpyWolf said: Kamipriest said: Exactly, I mean I don't really mind if someone likes FZ more, but when they say stuff like that it pisses me off. They don't even understand what it's about and attack it with arguments like those. And I dont mind people liking F/SN more but some people shoud just stop trying to play the ignorant card on someone who hasnt read the vn or dont want to read it. Yeah some are definitely ignorant or just trolls though. We don't though, the ignorant card is only used against people who make claims about the show without knowing what they are talking about. |
|
| I understand. People should stay quiet about specifics and try to focus on a larger scale. For example, i dont enjoy that the characters around Shirou are mainly female. I mean come on why not replace Taiga with a male char? Theres the prez and shinji i guess. Oh and archer. Some people would just say shounen harem anime, waifus everywhere, pick best girl.... I just wanted Shirou to interact with another male char. Shinji maybe in another route? Idk. Just my opinion. |
ok000Jan 4, 2015 5:29 PM
SpaceHamster said: Shirou does that a lot in Fate and HF. I feel UBW is the worst route to watch/look at to see Shirou interacting with other Male Characters. 2 other route also have "girl everywhere" anyway. |
GrumpyWolf said: I understand. People should stay quiet about specifics and try to focus on a larger scale. For example, i dont enjoy that the characters around Shirou are mainly female. I mean come on why not replace Taiga with a male char? Theres the prez and shinji i guess. Oh and archer. Some people would just say shounen harem anime, waifus everywhere, pick best girl.... I just wanted Shirou to interact with another male char. Shinji maybe in another route? Idk. Just my opinion. Taiga is like his sister, plus she deeply cared for kiritsugu. So it wouldn't really work if she was male. You saw her at his grave in episode 12 Sakura is not really part of any story except for Heavens Feel Only Saber and Rin play a big role in all 3 routes so it's only 2 girls he really interacts with. It's really no different than Maiya, Irisviel and Saber in Fate/Zero, although Kerry ignores Saber a lot. |
|
Kamipriest said: GrumpyWolf said: I understand. People should stay quiet about specifics and try to focus on a larger scale. For example, i dont enjoy that the characters around Shirou are mainly female. I mean come on why not replace Taiga with a male char? Theres the prez and shinji i guess. Oh and archer. Some people would just say shounen harem anime, waifus everywhere, pick best girl.... I just wanted Shirou to interact with another male char. Shinji maybe in another route? Idk. Just my opinion. Taiga is like his sister, plus she deeply cared for kiritsugu. So it wouldn't really work if she was male. You saw her at his grave in episode 12 Sakura is not really part of any story except for Heavens Feel Only Saber and Rin play a big role in all 3 routes so it's only 2 girls he really interacts with. It's really no different than Maiya, Irisviel and Saber in Fate/Zero, although Kerry ignores Saber a lot. ^ this If you ignore all the moe shit, Saber plays Maiya's role. RIn plays Irisviel's role. Archer is a big plus I guess. |
Kamipriest said: Taiga is like his sister, plus she deeply cared for kiritsugu. So it wouldn't really work if she was male. You saw her at his grave in episode 12 Sakura is not really part of any story except for Heavens Feel Only Saber and Rin play a big role in all 3 routes so it's only 2 girls he really interacts with. It's really no different than Maiya, Irisviel and Saber in Fate/Zero, although Kerry ignores Saber a lot. What a male cant care about another male? And cant visit graves? She was there though "SENPAIIIII" So now we are talking all routes? I meant this FSN. Maiya, Irisviel and Saber got as much exposition as the other masters and servants in FZ. |
GrumpyWolf said: What a male cant care about another male? And cant visit graves? That would be a little ... awkward... She was there though "SENPAIIIII" Sakura? In this route, yes. But she was out of the picture very fast, so I don't see any problem. So now we are talking all routes? I meant this FSN. Maiya, Irisviel and Saber got as much exposition as the other masters and servants in FZ. Not sure about Maiya though. She is just a plot device like Saber in this anime. Rin has much exposition as Irisviel. Maybe more. |
| UBW finally has the rating it deserves. |
| Lol We should all rank it 10 and get it to the top of MAL and watch the whining. |
antonn said: UBW finally has the rating it deserves. The hate begins so soon... |
| I remember when the ranking of the first cour was like this: |
 |
| We can't see the ranking in that picture. >.> |
Insertanamehere said: We can't see the ranking in that picture. >.> I'm pretty sure it shows it's ranked 11th. And if I remember correctly, it had a rating of 8.98 or something. |
|
-Riptide- said: Insertanamehere said: We can't see the ranking in that picture. >.> I'm pretty sure it shows it's ranked 11th. And if I remember correctly, it had a rating of 8.98 or something. For me it cuts off at "buy @ Rightstuff" |
Insertanamehere said: -Riptide- said: I'm pretty sure it shows it's ranked 11th. And if I remember correctly, it had a rating of 8.98 or something. For me it cuts off at "buy @ Rightstuff" Top right corner. Also, thankfully, time fixes everything. I hope UBW will eventually reach a rating that reflects the decision-making talent at Ufotable: "let's adapt the source material starting from the middle!". |
 |
Insertanamehere said: -Riptide- said: I'm pretty sure it shows it's ranked 11th. And if I remember correctly, it had a rating of 8.98 or something. For me it cuts off at "buy @ Rightstuff" Just look right from the title. It's written "Ranked #11". EDIT: Sniped >.< Again |
astroprogs said: If HF ended up being a single movie, what would it need to do so it can get a high score from all of you? Not air. |
Insertanamehere said: -Riptide- said: I'm pretty sure it shows it's ranked 11th. And if I remember correctly, it had a rating of 8.98 or something. For me it cuts off at "buy @ Rightstuff" Yeah well I'm talking about the ranking located at the upper right portion. |
|
| Oh right. Derp. |
| Anyway, that was when Episode 0 aired so basically, people were rating something that still hasn't aired. |
|
| *sigh* Series shouldn't be rate-able before they air...... |
Shrimperor said: That was before thye split episode 0 from the main entry.*sigh* Series shouldn't be rate-able before they air...... |
 |
StrayBotato said: Shrimperor said: That was before thye split episode 0 from the main entry.*sigh* Series shouldn't be rate-able before they air...... I am talking about S2... |
Shrimperor said: The rating is removed before any ranking happens so it's fine.StrayBotato said: That was before thye split episode 0 from the main entry. I am talking about S2... |
|
StrayBotato said: The rating is removed before any ranking happens so it's fine. Actually, S2 got ranked 1.00 just a bit back. |
Insertanamehere said: StrayBotato said: The rating is removed before any ranking happens so it's fine. Actually, S2 got ranked 1.00 just a bit back. That's "rated" not "ranked". |
|
-Riptide- said: Insertanamehere said: Actually, S2 got ranked 1.00 just a bit back. That's "rated" not "ranked". Well, S1 did get ranked 8.9 something even before it aired, so..... |
| The rating gets calculated and all, but all the votes are removed on the next refresh so unaired shows don't rank. It only happened with season 1 because it changed from "airing" to "not aired yet" after the whole splitting prologue stuff happened. |
|
Insertanamehere said: -Riptide- said: That's "rated" not "ranked". Well, S1 did get ranked 8.9 something even before it aired, so..... Like I said, that's "rated". "Ranked" is where it is on the Top Anime chart on MAL and "rated/rating" is what the average score people give it. |
|
| Dont worry about ratings and ranks, F/SN will be high ranked and top 50 for sure. For every person that rates 1 or 2 theres a counterpart that rates 10 or 9. If people stopped wasting their time on creating accounts so they can underrate or overrate the show we could get a better and believable score/rank. I have been reading some reviews and some people have legit complaints about the 1st half. But yeah it shouldnt be rated based on the 1st half but as a whole show. |
-Riptide- said: Insertanamehere said: Well, S1 did get ranked 8.9 something even before it aired, so..... Like I said, that's "rated". "Ranked" is where it is on the Top Anime chart on MAL and "rated/rating" is what the average score people give it. It was in the top 20 before the actualy airing, remember? Though that was mostly because of MAL splitting the prologue creating some confusion. |
Insertanamehere said: -Riptide- said: Like I said, that's "rated". "Ranked" is where it is on the Top Anime chart on MAL and "rated/rating" is what the average score people give it. It was in the top 20 before the actualy airing, remember? Though that was mostly because of MAL splitting the prologue creating some confusion. The point I'm trying to make is your use of the word "ranked" instead of "rated". Wait, are you messing with me? |
|
More topics from this board
Poll: » Fate/stay night: Unlimited Blade Works (TV) Episode 3 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Stark700 - Oct 25, 2014 |
1042 |
by Alice_Huxley
»»
Feb 13, 4:23 PM |
|
Poll: » Fate/stay night: Unlimited Blade Works (TV) Episode 2 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Stark700 - Oct 18, 2014 |
856 |
by Alice_Huxley
»»
Feb 13, 3:14 PM |
|
Poll: » Fate/stay night: Unlimited Blade Works (TV) Episode 12 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Stark700 - Dec 27, 2014 |
2751 |
by keynutil
»»
Jan 29, 9:06 AM |
|
Poll: » Fate/stay night: Unlimited Blade Works (TV) Episode 11 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Stark700 - Dec 20, 2014 |
903 |
by keynutil
»»
Jan 29, 5:00 AM |
|
Poll: » Fate/stay night: Unlimited Blade Works (TV) Episode 10 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Stark700 - Dec 13, 2014 |
1630 |
by SanessyAdversary
»»
Jan 19, 12:54 PM |