LucianRoy said: Chills. This reminds me of one of host's games where she implemented this one really really insane scum-role that auto-killed players for giving any hints about their own roles. This is like a nerfed version of the exact same thing. No one could claim when they were pushed with votes because they'd just die anyway. It was kinda janky, but I think town won that game....
Yeah i remember a game like that classic role chaos v.2 were you talking about that game?
LucianRoy said: Chills. This reminds me of one of host's games where she implemented this one really really insane scum-role that auto-killed players for giving any hints about their own roles. This is like a nerfed version of the exact same thing. No one could claim when they were pushed with votes because they'd just die anyway. It was kinda janky, but I think town won that game....
Yeah i remember a game like that classic role chaos v.2 were you talking about that game?
Nah, older than that, I think it happened sometime around November of 2014.
I think sleeping bear was in it because he caught one of Pyro's sneaky claims about his role, and Pyro died due to retroactively implementing the scum role.
"Sleepwalk into heaven" were the words that did him in.
Beginning of day 2, Written at 6:40 EST 1/25/16
I wrote this yesterday while I was thinking about this game. It's not directed at anyone, not even the dead player who I wrote it for.
SoulEaterQUEEN said: It be nice if mafia/third party could just kill each other.
Some personal theory from me no-one in the game has to read at all: But they might be interested nonetheless, it's really just my personal thoughts about games like these
That's literally the least optimal scenario for any 2 faction game. Trust me, I've tried this. Multiple times I believe. I've gotten burned baaaadddly. It doesn't work, and only if your scum game is one-hundred percent legit as an entire scum-team might you be able to pull this off. In all reality, the synch is too great to achieve. Thus, as town, I look for other patterns. Trades. Lets assume the teams know for a fact this strategy won't work. Team A will discuss their latent set of players who they're saving for a scum lynch, (because most of the time it's really easy to figure out who's the scum when you're scum, durrr), but team A knows that if they lynch all of these players simultaneously, they're going to get caught. Thus, Team A will go for something more along the lines of 1-parts scum lynches, (or even kills in drastic situations), and 2 to 3-part town lynches, (and obviously night kills). I'm expecting the majority of the town to die early in the game, and people will start to see more scum lynches, and possibly less town lynches as the game goes on. Team B might try not to hit Team A early in the game, because they both know that taking down the entire town relies on both of their unspoken cooperation. Our goal as town is to disrupt this entire process, obviously lynch scum, and f*cking wreck both scum teams. One last note, the downside of this situation for scum, (assuming they've killed the majority of the town, and only have themselves left), is that it'll end up in a shootout between the two opposing factions, which will ultimately be decided by whomever has the most players in their faction at that current moment. There will also be dumb af day-lynches which will also be determined by whomever has the majority of players in their scum-faction. Any remaining town who can see what's going on directly in front of them will probably try to side with the faction with less players, which really just kills everyone and makes everyone unhappy that they're dead. In total, the game setup is a double-edged sword for scum, and there's really no optimal outcome for either team unless they play extremely balanced and well in general. The town, on the other hand, can do what it normally does, except we can't trust anything because at any point in the game the scum might have actual reads on players who are scum, thus we make the best out of what we have, and we advance some-what blindly, hoping we're right. I'm not bashing this set-up, only making it fully apparent why it's just really really hard for both factions, including me as a player especially, as this is not in any way, shape, or form, your usual mafia game.
/mini rant over, this post isn't directed at you Soul, more at the game in general; your hypothetical question caused me to spin into an actual theory post about games like these. This could also tie into how VCA rarely works at all in these conditions.
P-much, in game like these, I expect most town players to die early with the multi-kills. It's just inevitable, really.
There was one multiball game where town fought amongst themselves while scum killed each other and town won.
I was in that game. I caused that to happen.
I suck.
Nah, it was the pokemon game.
Jaysus, I need to get my own games straight. It also happened in H&H, but I was wayyyy more green when that game happened. I loved that game so much, free Fo
I really should've realized that it was only a matter of time before anyone could clearly see I was going off behind the scenes info to lynch scum from a single opposing faction.
One of the reasons why i want to lynch veru is because I can't rely on the vig and I want to get rid of someone who I can safely say is 50% scum. In day 2, veru didn't get lynched, nor did the vig kill one of the twins. Its day 3 and the twins are still not dealt with. I don't want to go into lylo with the twins still alive which is why I would have prefer them to get dealt with earlier. But two days were wasted and I didn't accomplish much and so I'm not wasting time on them again.
Soren said: How much of the game have you read so far Lucian?
It's kind of sporadic, I really picked it up after I saw you were getting lynched for reasons I thought were terrible.
I stated from the beginning of the game, read up to somewhere in the middle, but I couldn't handle all the fluff posting, so I kind of phoned it it after that.
I did, however, take enough time to read Sylph's posts about wanting to lynch you.
I just wanted to point out a single example of one of the votes on Soren's wagon, if anyone on Soren's wagon read this, I ask you to strongly re-consider your vote.
For the sake of time: Sleiph's play so far:
Well that is how i usually play. I usually dont like to talk unless i am asked because it usually end up me being lynched even if i am town. It just became a phobia now. Anyway about the current situation i feel like soren right now is playing extremly scummy and he is doing it opnely. And i find that extremly weird. Everyone knows soren here and he does not play that way unless he is after something. I did not read all of the roles so i dont know but is there any role that can benefit from being lynched. Something like jester. Maybe one of the characters have that as a hidden passive. About the twins i believe willow is the good one but i alo think if one of the twins is converted i believe it is willow. Because if i was a mafia she would be the person i would want in my team. I mean even if willow is not the good twin she would still be the one i would convert. That is my current opinion is there anything specific you want to know?
Fails to support his read on Soren with any examples of him being scummy. Feigns meta reasons which he doesn't point to. "Something something wifom willow is scum for an illegitmate reason." Admits to actively lurking???
I deicded to vote soren for now cuz i believe he is playing this way because he wants to be voted and i want to see what that leads to. If it is just a misunderstanding and he plays that way for another reason i will change my vote to someonelse probably verumir as i think we have to get rid of the twins early game (sorry willow but it is too risky to keep you guys around)
Makes zero sense. "Soren is purposely playing badly because he wants to be voted." I really did a double take.
What's your definition of good play?
I call 681 and 782 good play. The vigs have already proven to be useless. The only way we're going to get anything done is if we do it as a town. Soren's actually trying to do something at the very least.
For these roles, the only thing we have to really be worry about is this: "Win condition: Survive to day 4," which is jank. We really should've taken care of them with a compromise lynch in a much earlier phase instead of screwing around up until now. Oh well. We have to make the best of it. As a last resort, if the evil one fails to die tonight, we need to kill one of them tomorrow and hope we chose correctly. The vig(s) in this game have been 100% useless so far, and really, dealing with this is the only way for them to redeem themselves.
Now we wait and hope they die. I guess.
*cough* someone finally agrees with me *cough*
About Shion and Mion, They were basically 1 innocent child (Mion) and 1 Survivor (Shion) who only had to survive to day 4 to win. To try and keep them from being killed at night, 1 reveals their killer if they are targeted on odd nights and one on even nights.
To stop them from being lynched because we wanted them dead last time (version 2.0) CC has made them back up roles, Mion becomes a non-self-targeting doctor (1-shot I think) once 4 townies are dead and Shion becomes mafia as soon as a mafioso dies (which happened N1).
So now we know for sure 1 of them (verumir and willow) is mafia and he 4-day thing is no longer an issue. A conversion occurred N1, I know this through my role, Dio was lynched yesterday though. I think it's chione so if you don't catch scum today, I'm gonna lynch you. ^^ no pressure
About that stuff with Shion/Mion. We can probably just flip a coin later. Save scum hunting for now, and if a formidable wagon doesn't appear on one of them by the end of the day, we make one.
I just wanted to point out a single example of one of the votes on Soren's wagon, if anyone on Soren's wagon read this, I ask you to strongly re-consider your vote.
For the sake of time: Sleiph's play so far:
Well that is how i usually play. I usually dont like to talk unless i am asked because it usually end up me being lynched even if i am town. It just became a phobia now. Anyway about the current situation i feel like soren right now is playing extremly scummy and he is doing it opnely. And i find that extremly weird. Everyone knows soren here and he does not play that way unless he is after something. I did not read all of the roles so i dont know but is there any role that can benefit from being lynched. Something like jester. Maybe one of the characters have that as a hidden passive. About the twins i believe willow is the good one but i alo think if one of the twins is converted i believe it is willow. Because if i was a mafia she would be the person i would want in my team. I mean even if willow is not the good twin she would still be the one i would convert. That is my current opinion is there anything specific you want to know?
Fails to support his read on Soren with any examples of him being scummy. Feigns meta reasons which he doesn't point to. "Something something wifom willow is scum for an illegitmate reason." Admits to actively lurking???
I deicded to vote soren for now cuz i believe he is playing this way because he wants to be voted and i want to see what that leads to. If it is just a misunderstanding and he plays that way for another reason i will change my vote to someonelse probably verumir as i think we have to get rid of the twins early game (sorry willow but it is too risky to keep you guys around)
Makes zero sense. "Soren is purposely playing badly because he wants to be voted." I really did a double take.
What's your definition of good play?
I call 681 and 782 good play. The vigs have already proven to be useless. The only way we're going to get anything done is if we do it as a town. Soren's actually trying to do something at the very least.
I admit actively lurking why would i refuse something i "always" do it makes playing as scum easier cuz people cant really accuse of being lurking because i am scum. And i also said that i will lurk unless i am called if you want to learn something from just ask me. Ask soren he can prove it he was the one teaching me mafia if i turned out bad i accuse my teacher being not good enough to lead me in a good way :3
@lucian, I might be reading too much into it but I named both sore and suzune as suspects and surely enough, day 2 both players were voted for by several people.
I started the votes on soren and got busy freaking lost another game due to being inactive T_T and came to find the phase had ended.
He voted for queen day 1 which I like but with the conversions, I can't trust anyone.
Oh, VCA? You were always good at that.
Hime wasn't replaced, right? So why isn't she posting and [b]tingles[/s] too.
Vote: Rei
What do you think of the events so far?
@kota, I wasn't scum reading you much but I don't like the self vote, I'll call your bluff if you're gonna do that. If you're town, vote for a suspect of yours.
@kota, I wasn't scum reading you much but I don't like the self vote, I'll call your bluff if you're gonna do that. If you're town, vote for a suspect of yours.
It's 4am,i'm dead tired and i'm not casting real votes here i'm just trying to be funny THAT'S ALL
Soren you know that you will be scum oneday and i will finally get you with one of these theories :]
Lets say you finally get me one game. How much value does that actually hold if you're just going to scum read me every game for the sake that you will be "right" when I actually do flip scum one game.
grave_robber said: @lucian, I might be reading too much into it but I named both sore and suzune as suspects and surely enough, day 2 both players were voted for by several people.
I started the votes on soren and got busy freaking lost another game due to being inactive T_T and came to find the phase had ended.
He voted for queen day 1 which I like but with the conversions, I can't trust anyone.
Oh, VCA? You were always good at that.
Hime wasn't replaced, right? So why isn't she posting and [b]tingles[/s] too.
Vote: Rei
What do you think of the events so far?
@kota, I wasn't scum reading you much but I don't like the self vote, I'll call your bluff if you're gonna do that. If you're town, vote for a suspect of yours.
be back later
Soren has partial Burden of Proficiency here on MS, and with him being in uni and all, I feel like there's the slight inclination people might be scum-reading him for not playing like he usually does as town, which, I can obviously see, is obvious compared to past games. That's why I'm doing a bit of digging and such:
What were your reasons for voting him yesterday?
LucianRoy said: I don't want to IC this game.
I don't want to IC this game.
Why do I feel the legitimate need to IC this game?
what does IC mean?
It just stands for someone who helps newer-players to become generally better players by commenting on their play in the game with full intention of helping them.
It's a job, one that I'm not getting paid for, lol. Unvote: Sleiph
Soren you know that you will be scum oneday and i will finally get you with one of these theories :]
Lets say you finally get me one game. How much value does that actually hold if you're just going to scum read me every game for the sake that you will be "right" when I actually do flip scum one game.
That day will be the day when i pass out from drinking because i was celabrating anyway jokes aside it is like an engraved action to me. I will always find you and kaito scummy doesnt matter which game. I cant think otherwise but that doesnt mean that i am only focusing on you. Let me quote you from the lol game " this is a game between informed party and uninformed party why would i give them advantage by saying what i know" or something like that so unless i am at least 80 percent sure that person is scum i wont be talking unless i am cornered and in order not to get attention you guys will be the ones i will be focusing. If not neither one of you is in the game i will just focus some random player.
LucianRoy said: I don't want to IC this game.
I don't want to IC this game.
Why do I feel the legitimate need to IC this game?
what does IC mean?
It just stands for someone who helps newer-players to become generally better players by commenting on their play in the game with full intention of helping them.
It's a job, one that I'm not getting paid for, lol. Unvote: Sleiph
I believe you, Soren.
oh okay dont even bother than because i wont be listening anyway. I am just getting better myself by playing. When somebody tells me what to do it usually backfires on me so it would just make me a worse player.
Gahh. I'm trying to express my thoughts but I'm too tired to form comprehensible sentences right now. If you have any questions for me, feel free to ask.
I'll contribute more in the morning once I'm rested.