New
Mar 19, 2016 12:39 AM
#1
| I am currently writing an original story and kinda hope it gets made into an anime. Can i have your guyses opinion on it? I havent even made a satisfactory chapter 1 but here is what i have: UPDATED 3/21 Genre: Action, shounen, military, supernatural. Background:it takes place on earth, for a thousand years the Superhuman Empire has ruled over the earth under the reign of the Emperor, who is chosen not by blood, but by his affinity and power of his Master soul. There are two types of powers in the universe. The Master soul, which gets its power from the user's own individual willpower and might. And the divine soul, which derives its power from how much the user is feared and worshipped and how fanatically devoted they are to any supernatural being. Humanity was at its peak, Culture and Science flourished throughout earth. And the individual human was also at its peak physically and mentally. They were strong, proud, smart, and very competitive. But everything changed when GOD[Great Otherworldly Dominion] attacked. The great horde of inhuman monsters[various kinds of monsters, most with vaguely humanoid forms] called Missionis and Deus[basically higher level divine beings]were led by the 3 Guardians of the planet[Aqua the sea gurardian, Ventus the sky guardian and Terra the earth guardian]who have suddenly betrayed humanity and went to serve the Deum Rex, God-King of GOD. The army of GOD used a power called the Divine soul, the very opposite of the Master soul. The sudden and ferocious attacks by GOD happened all over the world, quickly overrunning the Superhuman Military. The immense speed and power which GOD had appeared and beat the superhuman armies and spread fear throughout the empire, leading to whole armies and cities surrendering, weakening the Superhumans and strengthening the GOD. In just 6 days, the empire was overrun, leaving only Stalwartia the imperial capital with the remnants of the Superhuman army and the last Empress Taiyoko Ken. For an entire day they fought, forcing the Deum Rex himself to go out and fight the Emperess. The Emperess was defeated, leaving only a Scar on the Deum Rex's otherwise divine body. But not the empress sealed herself away in her own sword and her companions sacrifced themselves so she'd be sealed away until the day came when someone worthy would find her. Afterwards, humanity became slaves to GOD. The story is about the conquests of a man named Rex who managed to overthrow GOD. Powers:Imagine the 2 as a combination of zanpakuto and spiral power. So in a way it both projects from the soul and increase your physical abilities. There are only 2 types of souls because it is supposed to represent humans with Nietzsche's will to power, or "the belief in the you that believes in you"[master soul]. And the Divine soul represents the power of fear and "believing in something else". They are those who lack the will to power and instead seek to have others give them power and weaken them. To put it simply, its spiral vs anti-spiral. As for the 3 planet guardians, they have special souls called life souls. They are essntially self-defence systems that the planet made to protect and maintain itself. Questions from me to you: MC: Name: Rex Gender: Male Height: 7ft Weight: 270 ib. Body Type: Buff and Muscular Powers: Self-Taught martial arts, and Kinetic Energy Absorption (I got the idea from Needless from that guy who can absorb heat and fire it back. Basically he can do the same with heat, sound, electricity, and even simply movement. If he absorbs heat, it increases his physical capabilities and can shoot fire, can also potentially freeze things when he absorbs. Absorbing sound around him can make things nearby completely silent and can fire it back to disrupt opponents with loud sounds. With electricity he can shut down electric devices and fire electricity, while electricity has more destructive force than heat absorbing electricity and holding it in for too long can shock him. And finally absorbing movement can cause things around him to move slightly slower and can use it to push things back like the force(but not pull things toward him). I was thinking to give him a handicap that while holding all that energy is useful, it can potentially destroy his body when held in for too long or absorbed too much.) Equipment: Elephant sized white horse named Braveheart, Heavy gauntlets. Personality: Boisterous, Determined, Perverted, Confident, Ambitious, Prideful, Kind, and Cool-headed. Flaws: Arrogant, Self-esteem issues, easily Riled, Aggressive, Lonely, and sometimes selfish. Background: Rex was born in a cult specifically meant to worship the Deum Rex and to become his favored servants. He was raised to become what his parents and society want, the perfect boy. One who is submissive, humble, and simple-minded. He was taught from birth that those in the cult were the humans with the most morality and that they were the most compassionate and lving people on earth. However he never fit in with those in his cult due to his natural personality conflicting with what the cult wanted from him. He was quiet, lonely, and sad. His parents would only reward and compliment him if he did what they said. They claim their love is unconditional but it was far from it. Rex was never beaten or abused, but he knew his parents thought him a disappointment and minimized contact with him. One day when he was 10, he attended a special ceremony where one of the children in the audience were chosen to spend a daywith their elders and learn from them. But when happen to stumble upon the elder's room, he saw the elder molesting the child. The elder then said to the child that if she told anyone about this, her and her parents will suffer the Deum Rex's wrath. He also said it would be futile, for it would be her word against his. This exchange awakened something within Rex and over the next 6 years, he would find more evidence of the cult's and the Deus's atrocities throughout history. He also found books about the days of the superhuman empire and the concept of the ideal human. This information hope and pride within him. He then eventually swore that he would overthrow the rule of GOD and make mankind great again. No one payed attention to him, so no one noticed his research. He then decided to fake his suicide in order to run away in exile at the age of 18. No one missed him. He went deep into the mountains and trained himself on honing his master soul and martial arts. After 7 years, he deemed himself a master and eventually found Braveheart, his only companion, and set off on his journey as a new man. Random facts: Has had his fair share of one night stands. Likes meat Has atrocious table manners. Horrible womaizer This post will be edited as i get more ideas. |
OutlawedDrifterMay 9, 2016 11:05 PM
Mar 19, 2016 6:44 AM
#2
| You need to elaborate more on why this things exist and where they're going. Also you need to make this post easier to read, as it is currently just a big ass paragraph filled with grammatical errors lol (granted I know you weren't exactly trying to type a grammatically correct post) Also, you've said things like "There are two types of powers in the universe. The Master soul, which gets its power from the user's own individual willpower and might." What is the other power? It seems like as of right now you just thought of some cool stuff to put into a story that seems to make sense but it's just all bunched together. Also +20 points for Aqua, Terra and Ventus. I award these points because I love Kingdom Hearts and for no other reason lol |
Mar 19, 2016 9:22 AM
#3
| Interesting, certainly interesting for start, but... has quite a few problems, plotholes and stuff. Ok, here are what I noticed. I say before, I mean it as constructive critics, so not get angry or sad on it. (and sorry, it ended up long.) To Concept: I like philosophy, so that thing is interesting, though I'm not an expert in Nietzsche's philosophy. Ok, so you have two kind of power, one is the "Master soul", and the other is the "Divine soul", and if I understood well, it's something along the Übermensch theory of Nietzsche, right? So, people with "Master soul" are the Übermensch, and... who are the other? reading your concept I kind of doubt they would be just "everyone else"? But if the ones with "Divine soul" are the people/army/whatever of "G.O.D."... then what about common folk who are neither Übermensch, nor from the army of "G.O.D."? Or is every human beings are Übermensch there? (that would sound weird though, IMO) Ok, so the Emperor or Empress was choosen based on he or she was the best of the Übermensch, ok, but... choosen by who exactly? Certainly this "individual human" is interesting too, but I'm not sure you meant that as the Emperor/Empress, or as a concept, AKA another name for the Übermensch (as every Übermensch, not just one)? And kinda regarding to the previous question of there are other humans too, not just Übermensch, If there are people who live in collectivistic societies, instead of individualistic? Or it's not important here? Ah, right, is this Empire ruling over the whole Earth? Guardians... what about them? They sound interesting, but I not exactly understood what's their role? If they has no soul, I assume they're some kind of artifical beings? If so, who created them? And again, what they do? Protecting the planet from pollution, external treats, etc., you said, but I just not exactly see in what they play a role regarding your story? Ok, then... "G.O.D."... so suddenly its king's, Deum Rex's army attacked Earth... because? Ok, has an army of monsters and higher divine beings (demigods? angels?) and the three Earth Guardians led them, against the Übermensch, ruling Earth. So, is Deum Rex is just a power hungry ruler who want to capture Earth, or is it some kind of "divine retribution" for something, or? And if the Guardians are made to protect Earth from external treats, shouldn't they protect Earth from "G.O.D." and Deum Rex's army? Is is it not an external treat? So the people with "Master soul" get their power from themselves, from their individuum, and the soldiers of "G.O.D." get it from "Divine soul"... umm... is it that all and every soilders of "G.O.D." has "Divine Soul"? and get their power from "how much the user is feared and worshipped" AKA how the one certain monster/divine being is feared, like one currently attacking humans and humans fear from it, or you meant "Divine soul" as the soul of their ruler only, or as the soul of "G.O.D." (if a country can have a soul?) only, and its (and its armies') power is depends on how much "G.O.D." is "feared and worshipped"? It also makes me wonder about whether the Übermensch only depens on their own power, completely? Why as for one what about teamwork, as long as everyone is considered an idividuum and used in the team for his or her own special power, only he or she can do? And other question, if Übermensch are all Atheist? AKA, not depend on the power of (any) God(s)? And if so, you imagine it as idillic or as bad? So you mean their way of living is (quasi) perfect, or good but not perfect, or? Ok, so after a war of 6 days (Biblical meaning?) "G.O.D."'s army defeated the Übermensch, capturing Earth and enslaving humanity (is Humanity = Übermensch?), but before that, cool badass last Empress left a scar on Deus Rex. So, again, "Master soul"; "the belief in the you that believes in you" "Divine soul"; "represents the power of fear and "believing in something else". They are those who lack the will to power and instead seek to have others give them power and weaken them." - You said. However this makes me wonder, if it's not possible to combine the two? AKA, you believe in your power and at the same time you belive in there are some higher powers too (call them Gods, or whatever), which combination probably would make those are stronger than the other two cathegories, IMO. Animals... you wonder about if they should have a Guardin on their own, or led by alpha animals or something, but I not see what role animals even play in your story to begin with? So, first, decide what role they play in the story, and then deal with whether they should be intelligent, sentient beings or just normal animals. Having the last Empress sealed herself in her sword sounds cool, and though a bit cliché MC founds her and uses her at the final fight, it sounds cool even if a bit chiché. (but what do you meant "she comes with a sword?") As for "present time", how Earth looks like? Is it some "post-apocalyptic" thing, that most things got destroyed in the war, or how exactly it looks like "present time"? As for MC: Why is he named Rex? I assume it has importance, but it also confusing if you call the ruler of "G.O.D." as Deus Rex, so maybe could consider renaming one of them, except if it is intentional that their names should be similar. I mean, ok, in "Deus Rex" it's a title, not a name, but it's still similar. As for personality, I don't know those characters you said as examples, but based on those traits you said, I assume he's your usual shounen protagonist, which is a bit cliché, but it's your main character, and maybe it's what fits the story the best too. I see what his power does (along with the handicap), it sounds cool, not much to note on that. However... As for Story: ...Erm... so... what is it? You told the concept of the backround, and that sounds interesting. You told a bit about MC and that's about ok. But... what's the story? Ok, we have a strong guy named Rex who defeats the ruler of the repressive power, somehow... How? That's the story, I assume, the actual story, and not the backround. So, Where the story starts? Who is this Rex guy? His backround? Why fight against the opressors? What's his motive? Is he the only one main character? Or are there more? - if it's an adventure or sort, I guess a small team of good friends is more interesting than a lonelywolf protagonist, though I guess depending on story that can be good too. But even if he would be a lonelywolf, there must be other characters too, he interacts along the story, even if they not join him, so how about those characters? How does he finds the sword of the Empress if it's sealed so good that "G.O.D."'s army couldn't found it? Does he finds it by chance? Is he some "choosen one"? or just a normal guy who has big dreams, and just found the sword by chance/luck, whatever? (and I checked your profile, you say you're against slice of life and romance, well, for everyone what they like, but don't you plan to add romance to the story? not like you must to, I'm just wondering if you plan to, or not.) So that part, I have many-many questions about it. So, tell me, what's the story? Because you made me curious about it. (And I'm not saying it as sarcasm!) Ok, these are my observations on what you written about it so far. It's interesting for start, as a concept, but has many plotholes and stuff, and not exactly see what's the actual story (so not the backrough) about like. But don't get sad or angry, I told everything as constructive critics. To tell you, I'm also trying writing stories, I started the first about a year ago (though it's not complete yet, because I rewritten it many times and still rewriting it) so, I know about how difficult writing can be at times, but at other times - and that's the more - it's so fun, it worth the time. And before I started writing that said story, I also had a bunch of good ideas I collected in a concept, much like yours, and that also not had an actual story that time yet, just a concept about how that world looks like, etc., so I think, I understood you a bit, and I encourage you to write! Don't give up, because it lacks things now, but think out the missing things, and write them in the concept, and write the story. And re-read it, and if feel that looking at it again, this could be better, do not fear to rewrite parts, more times, if you feel it's necessary. And of course, consulting others about it can be a huge help too. And it's nice aiming high, like "kinda hope it gets made into an anime" - you said - (but chances to that is low, let's be honest. but I mean "low", not "impossible") so, it's nice aiming hight, but don't get discouraged if things won't go as you dreamed about. Worst case scenario, you'll have a novel in the drawer of your desk, but even so, it's Your Novel, and if you had fun while writing it, it already worth the time! And you could try write another one too, as you write more, you gain more experience in it, and your novels will be better and better (that's why the re-read and re-write too, is so important IMO. with more experience you notice flaws you not noticed before, and can write the not so good (or even terrible) parts to be better. With only about one year of experience in writing stories, I not feel I would be much more than a beginner, but if I can help, feel free to ask me, I'll try to help. (By the way, how much experience you has in writing stories? I assumed it is your first story, but say if I assumed wrong. in that case, I appologize for assuming wrong. So it can be you have more experience than I do, if that's the case, sorry for that part. And what I said about I write stories too, not said to brag, but to say I think I can understand you a bit about writing.) |
Mar 19, 2016 11:59 PM
#4
| Thank you for your feedback! I will try my best to answer your questions. @Gabagool The other power you mention is called the divine soul(which i mentioned in the OP) which is powers that are powered by fear and worshipping other things. It is also powered by others fearing and/or worshipping the user. It is essentially the opposite of the master soul. Can you elaborate more on what specifically your confused on please? @Sora_92 this is going to be long so ill answer your questions in a spoiler concept Humans are initially born with master souls. However events that cause someone to grow hateful of how life is and fill their heart with despair and hopelessness can convert a master soul into a divine soul. The Deus and GOD in general are actually not a foreign race but the manifestation of the despair and hate within one who no longer believes in themselves but start to believe in a higher power for miracles and urges to shackle the strong and happy down with them. Basically, the master soul represents nietzche's master morality and self-determination and the divine soul represents slave morality and relying on other things to the point of worshipping them and having no self-esteem. Your either one or the other. Unless your a planet guardian. Its just that each individual has varying levels of power in their respective category. When the emperor dies, a new one is chosen through a series of trials called the naturals election, any human can apply. During the naturals election, the bureaucracy is in control temporarily.It starts with hunger games-esque tournament to weed out the sick and weak that lasts for 3 days. After that the survivors go through a series of mental trials to see who is more mentally fit. The last test is a duel to the death between the survivors. Winner becomes emperor. Howeve if someone wishes to become emperor while the current one is alive, they can. All they have to do is go theough the mental trials(which i havent thought of yet but it will be traumatic and mind rapey.) after that they duel the emperor to the death and the winner is the emperor When i mentioned the individual human, i meant it as a concept. The average human was at their physical peak and fit the ubermensch ideal, following their own code and extremely self-confident. As such, there are a variety of personalities in the empire. The society in the superhuman empire is very individualistic. However people are still willing to serve others because they know it will be best for themselves, and further their own interests. So by following others, they are following themselves. The guardians role is to simply uphold the environment's stability. Nothing more. They have unique souls called planet souls. Each of the planets in the galaxy have souls to maintan and protect themselves. They arent really alive though, they are just self-defence systems with some sentience who know and are satisfied with their purpose. The reason they suddenly betrayed humanity was because the Deum Rex told them that the humans will eventually destroy the planet with their blind vanity and ambitions. This was further worsened with the invention of factories which led to polluting the atmosphere and when one of the Superhuman Empire's research labs exploded and left the land around it unusable and killed all living things within the vicinity of the lab. This convinced the guardians that humans were a threat to the earth and joined the invasion. The reason the GOD invaded was to to fulfill the master plan of converting all of man into one single hive mind called Paradisia, making a being that is nigh omnipotent. However the hive mind can only be achieved with 1,000,000,000 non-Deus born divine souls. In other words, they need to break the spirits of a billion humans to form Paradisia. After enough humans have converted into divinity,the Deum Rex will merge all beings with Divine souls into Paradisia, they will wipe out the remaining humans and then spread their influence across the universe. This plan was concocted by a human named Abraham and his following of other humans who have converted divine souls. They represent the people who lacked the will to achieve their initial dreams and were trampled by stronger humans. They hate people who are individually powerful because they think being strong leads to pain and suffering not just to others but the one eho holds that power. They seek a universe where there is absolute equality in everything. Using their combined power, they created the Deus and all of GOD to subjugate humanity and achieve their plans. I shouldve put this sooner, but the divine soul not only gains power from how much the user is feared and worshipped but also how dependent and devoted they are to those stronger than them but have divine souls as well. A divine soul's power is baiscally a loop. The user fears and worships those stronger than him, giving the target more power from their fear and devotion. And the user also gains power from their fanatic belief in whatever they worship. Those who use the Master soul aren't necessarily locked into working alone. They are able to coordinate with each other, its just that they are able to act independently. Whereas those with divine souls are entirely dependent on their commanders. Without their bosses, they are weak and powerless. Yes all those who werent corrupted by the divine soul are atheists and proud of it. Dependency on the supernatural is considered a sign of weakness and hatred towards how life is. However, they all know that they are ultimately responsible for their actions and consequences. Not taking responsibility for ones own life is considered dishonorable among them. It is not possible to combine the 2. You seem to be under the impression that the ubermensch in the empire considered teamwork and cooperation a sign of weakness and shame. That is not true, most of them know the usefulness of teamming up with other people to achieve their goals. Its just that they prefer to do things on their own if possible. Those who use the divine soul however are entirely dependent on their peers and commanders to assist them to the point of fanatic devotion. They are powerless when alone but dangerous in numbers. Now you see why those 2 powers cant ever mix? I was going to have animals fight mythological monsters in the liberation war against GOD(Dinosaurs vs. Dragons FTW) but im not sure how to go about it. Maybe ill just go with the aplha animal leading the pack thing. Because animals care about their home as well, so i think they deseve to fight as well. Also i just came up with the idea of Dinosaurs being the most powerful animals on earth and went into hiding, enslavement,etc. Got to go my battery is dieing and ill answer the rest of your questions later, but you have made me think of more ideas. Thank you for your support! |
OutlawedDrifterMar 20, 2016 2:16 AM
Mar 20, 2016 12:36 AM
#5
| The excuse "plez ignre teh grammar lolz" isn't acceptable anymore. If its almost unreadable, that's exactly what it is. If you aren't going to put the effort into correcting your mistakes to at least some standard, why should anyone pay attention to it? So if you are serious about writing a story, put some actual effort into making it at least presentable. I suggest you take some time to have a serious thought about the plot, make a rough summary of it. Usually this involves writing a start and a finish, then deciding on the middle as you come to it. Everything is subject to change but this certainly helps with creation. Next time you make a post lay it out with Tag lines so people can get to the information they are interested in quickly. Setting: Future/space/Earth/Date etc Genre: Plot Summary: Characters: Additional Information: Something like that will make it easier for people to digest and maybe even bother helping. Otherwise they'll do exactly what I did, read the first few lines, turn their brain off and rant on about something else. Or you know, something worse.... like not comment at all. Now I don't know how seriously you want to take this, so you can ignore most of this if its just something you had on the fly and probably drop in a week, like usually how I work. But if you want to take this seriously its important to remember the greatest stories took years to make, most started from a single idea and more often than not had nothing to do with their original form. |
| There’s no such thing as miracles, only the inevitable, the accidental and the things we do. |
Mar 20, 2016 1:11 AM
#6
El_Psy said: The excuse "plez ignre teh grammar lolz" isn't acceptable anymore. If its almost unreadable, that's exactly what it is. If you aren't going to put the effort into correcting your mistakes to at least some standard, why should anyone pay attention to it? So if you are serious about writing a story, put some actual effort into making it at least presentable. I suggest you take some time to have a serious thought about the plot, make a rough summary of it. Usually this involves writing a start and a finish, then deciding on the middle as you come to it. Everything is subject to change but this certainly helps with creation. Next time you make a post lay it out with Tag lines so people can get to the information they are interested in quickly. Setting: Future/space/Earth/Date etc Genre: Plot Summary: Characters: Additional Information: Something like that will make it easier for people to digest and maybe even bother helping. Otherwise they'll do exactly what I did, read the first few lines, turn their brain off and rant on about something else. Or you know, something worse.... like not comment at all. Now I don't know how seriously you want to take this, so you can ignore most of this if its just something you had on the fly and probably drop in a week, like usually how I work. But if you want to take this seriously its important to remember the greatest stories took years to make, most started from a single idea and more often than not had nothing to do with their original form. Thank you for your thoughts, i fixed the grammer and reorganized the OP. from now on i shall use the OP to put all of the pieces of the story. You were right about the grammer thing, thanks for telling me. |
OutlawedDrifterMar 20, 2016 1:17 AM
Mar 20, 2016 6:47 AM
#7
El_Psy said: The excuse "plez ignre teh grammar lolz" isn't acceptable anymore. If its almost unreadable, that's exactly what it is. If you aren't going to put the effort into correcting your mistakes to at least some standard, why should anyone pay attention to it? So if you are serious about writing a story, put some actual effort into making it at least presentable. I suggest you take some time to have a serious thought about the plot, make a rough summary of it. Usually this involves writing a start and a finish, then deciding on the middle as you come to it. Everything is subject to change but this certainly helps with creation. Next time you make a post lay it out with Tag lines so people can get to the information they are interested in quickly. Setting: Future/space/Earth/Date etc Genre: Plot Summary: Characters: Additional Information: Something like that will make it easier for people to digest and maybe even bother helping. Otherwise they'll do exactly what I did, read the first few lines, turn their brain off and rant on about something else. Or you know, something worse.... like not comment at all. Now I don't know how seriously you want to take this, so you can ignore most of this if its just something you had on the fly and probably drop in a week, like usually how I work. But if you want to take this seriously its important to remember the greatest stories took years to make, most started from a single idea and more often than not had nothing to do with their original form. This^^^.. The OP is more organized but still has many grammatical errors in it but like I said before you already mentioned you would do that so I'll give you a pass for now :). Power of absorbing Kinetic Energy is interesting but wouldn't that make people who stand still able to defeat him? Kinetic energy is energy an object has BECAUSE of it's motion. |
Mar 20, 2016 9:47 AM
#8
| Your text cleanup is definitelly appreciated! it's a bit better now. Ok, let me say my opinion and notes on your answer. (wall of text again, sorry for that.) If Master soul and Divine soul are made from each other, then is it possible to convert to any side from any side? Again, I'm not an expert in Nietzsche, but I wonder if the world is not just black and white, so I not see why wouldn't it be possible someone believes in himself/herself, and the same time believes in higher power. For example, a confident human who is not atheist, I'm pretty sure there are maany like that, what about them? Aand what about the Emperor/Empress's connection with the people of that Empire? Aren't your Übermensch, while believe in themselves too, put some faith in the Emperor/Empress if they choosen him/her to lead the country? Another question about G.O.D., if the followers are made from Übermensch who left that path, and choosen the path of the Divine soul, from where the monsters and divine beings came from you talked about? And let's try having a definition to what you think Übermensch is? As much as I remember when we were studying about Nietzsche, I remember things Nietzsche said like the Übermensch would be strong, confident, etc., ok, ok, that sounds cool maybe, but not everyone is like that, by nature. There are people who are weak, sick, etc., and as far as I remember, as opposed to Christian morality, Nietzsche said it's not human's duty to protect the weak and heal the sick, as that is merely a waste of time (since they're not Übermensch by nature and can't even be), the Übermensch should focus on other Übermenschen (not sure about the plural, I'm not very good in German). And also, I think that he said something that those people (who are not Übermenschen) also shouldn't reproducate, maybe, since their offsprings will be inperfect too. Why if you would have such an attitude to the Übermensch of yours, it's not a surprise if the weak and sick look for some other way. By Übermenschen (self)definition, they can't be Übermenschen, and if you say there are only two roads (I disagree with that) they literally has no choice but to follow the other road, since they can't walk the road of Übermensch. Of course, if it's only based on if you believe in yourself, it's different, since the weak and sick too, can believe in themselves, but by Nietzsche's standard (say if I remember wrong) they couldn't become Übermensch, since they're not (quasi)perfect (by nature). So how is this in your stories' world again? The election of Emperor/Empress: So, there is this complex procedure "naturals election", having them starve a little to "weed out" the weak and sick goes just as I thought Nietzsche's philosophy would think. Mental trials too, with the possible harshness of causing mindbreak and stuff, and then those who passed that too keeping their sanity and showing their intelligence the same time, fight each other to death! It sure will ensure that only the best becames the ruler. Wow, cool! ...or, wait... not necesarily. Everyone can apply, right? And everyone is Übermensch in the Empire, right? (how can the weak and the sick be that to begin with, by Nietzsche's standard?) they weed out the weak ans sick, who weren't even Übermensch to begin with, then break the mind of the weaker Übermenschen - all of these became broken, and thus aoutomatically cease being Übermensch, (growing the number of the "opposite side") then what remained, the "cream" you grind them all but one, losing the cream of the Empire in just one single event. You have a strong ruler, for sure, but you paid an impossible price for it in the health, sanity, and lives of your own people, some were among the cream of your empire before. If only the Emperor would count, this procedure would make sense, but if every human in the empire is Übermensch and they all count, then this is a rather crazy method potencially weakening the Empire on lower levels than the level of the ruler. Plus what would happen in cases - maybe not impossible - you have friends or lovers reach into the 3rd round. you make them murder each other? Survival of the fittest! The fittest who survived 3 days of starving, shown his/her intelligence while kept his/her sanity, and fought the best, including his/her best friend since childhood, and his/her lover too, and he/she killed them all, the friend too, the lover too, because he/she is not a mere human who feels such unimportant feelings such as frienship and love, a ruler not needs that, a ruler must's even be a... human being anymore... he/she is an überselfish Übermensch, a heartless Emperor/Empress fittest to rule the Empire. Sure, even I agree that feelings are not something a ruler needs to hold the first priority, he/she must see what's the best for the country and the people first of all, but even so, I'm not sure a person so heartless that could kill his/her best friend, lover - just to be on the top - just like that is a "perfect ruler" of a "perfect empire". Sure he/she is certainly Über in some way, but... is that what you think the perfect person is like? Sure if a ruler would be a bleeding heart that probably wouldn't be the best ruler either, but a brute with no feelings, I wouldn't consider that best either. Have some golden middle path, IMO. And so the people follow such an Emperor/Empress, out of? recognising he/she's the best? or out of fear? would you not fear from such a ruler? Then, the people has partly a Divine soul too, the same time. Or Imperial soul, or call it what you want, but not 100% "Master soul". And why, you said "The society in the superhuman empire is very individualistic. However people are still willing to serve others because they know it will be best for themselves, and further their own interests. So by following others, they are following themselves. " Then what's the difference if you follow others anyway, if you follow your boss, the emperor/empress, etc., than if you follow gods? Not in that whether gods exist or not, while you can see the boss and the ruler with your own eyes, but that you do follow someone! Whether you follow gods or other (stronger) humans (or both the same time) you can be an individuum still, so if there is society, (and not complete anarchy) people will both have - by your definition - Master Soul and Divine Soul the same time (which one is the stronger is a thing, but still would have both, not just one) Guardians: If their only purpose is "to simply uphold the environment's stability. Nothing more." then don't see why it's important where (what side) they stand. Aren't they're more neutral then? And if they're some high beings, with high intelligence, would they just believe what someone told them? Even if there's pollution and exploding research labs, then they would just side the other side who destroys everything in their way then? Or what? Ok, G.O.D. has some plan now at least, why they attack, but still. Ok, it sounds grandiose and evil, so guess fit a shounen story's villains role. But if you would have Divine soul, would that mean you have ABSOLUTELY NO self esteem? that you would just give up yourself completely and merging with thousands into a single being? I personally would disagree. Or even if you say that's the definition, Divine soul: no self esteem, Master Soul: has self esteem, but then who is who have absolutely no self esteem? I would assume that's very few people. And then even if you have just a little, then you're already in the other cathegory. A single candle won't light up the whole room, but you can't say it's total darkness either. Ah, and if everyone with Divine soul are like that, how the hierarcy is even useful you talk about? if the comanders etc. are also having Divine sould they're also just blindly following their bosses orders, technically then rank is just decoration as everyone is the same, useless and just followes orders of the big boss on the top... ah, wait, if that big boss has Divine soul too, then what?! Who's the big boss' boss he/she blindly followes? You Said: "Yes all those who werent corrupted by the divine soul are atheists and proud of it. Dependency on the supernatural is considered a sign of weakness and hatred towards how life is. However, they all know that they are ultimately responsible for their actions and consequences. Not taking responsibility for ones own life is considered dishonorable among them." Ok... I might not agree with that, but I don't have to. But you might as well could consider here too, world is not black and white it's not Religious people and Atheists, but rather like Christians (with a ton of sub-cathegories), Buddhists, Deists, etc., etc., and Atheists. there are many and different religions. Then, humans depend on each other many times. When a human being is born he/she is weeeak, very weeeak, would die without taken care of. He/she simply must depend on others (mom the most, I think). A student must at least partly depend on the teacher, to learn basic things that are not unique to him/her therefore can't learn on his/her own, like writing, reading, etc. of course there are many things you can learn alone too, and often school is repressing which is bad, it shouldn't be repressing. but there are basics you can't just replace with whatever unique idea of yours, reading, writing are basics like that. Then in society, we do depend on each other more or less, a scientist maybe a wonderful individuum who has wonderful unique ideas and invent great stuff, but he/she just depends on the shop at the corner to buy his/her food. And what about the ruler, you added an Emperor/Empress, aren't the people depend on him/her too, believing he/she is a great ruler and will rule the country to be prosperous and great for them. Sure the humans can be all wonderful individuums but as have constraints, why must co-work at least with a few. How much, depends on many things, and society and all. a farmer might could live completely alone growing his/her own food, and be independent from everyone. but if we're speaking about people in a city, if one focuses on this or that, like science, art, anything, they likely have to depend on others at least a bit in other things. And aren't we kind of depend on supernatural too? or at least things we don't know and can't predict. A sudden sickness, an accident, natural catastrophes, and of course positive things too, like a scientifical breakthrough, or winning on the lottery. You could say these are only depend on luck, say if you want, but they're still not in our hands to have power on them. You said and asked: "It is not possible to combine the 2. You seem to be under the impression that the ubermensch in the empire considered teamwork and cooperation a sign of weakness and shame. That is not true, most of them know the usefulness of teamming up with other people to achieve their goals. Its just that they prefer to do things on their own if possible. Those who use the divine soul however are entirely dependent on their peers and commanders to assist them to the point of fanatic devotion. They are powerless when alone but dangerous in numbers. Now you see why those 2 powers cant ever mix?" Why just as I said upper too, I not see it would be all black-and-white. The Übermensch you say do depend on others a bit too, even if that's just a little by your standard, that's a breadcrumb of that Divine soul at least. And how could the army of G.O.D. completely devote themselves to their comanders and all? I think there are very few humans who COMPLETELY would devote themselves like that, just blindly follow every orders (but on the other hand, in the army I think that is what they would want from übermenschen too, aren't? strategy requires obeying soilders, a soilder doing something on his/her own could broke a good strategy, though also could save a bad one too. But in civillans, who would COMPLETELY devote their live and everything to others? No, I would think they have at least a breadcrumb-worth of individuality too, maybe just tiny things, like dunno, taste, like if your boss say you must eat this soup but you hate this type of soup, you might still will eat it. but if the boss say you must love it, honestly, from the deepest depth of your heart, will you do so? will you love the soup you hate just because boss said so? you might will eat it, because, but you won't start to love it just because your boss said so. (assuming you hate that soup and not just said so but never tried and by trying by boss' order you realised it's good. but that you tried it, and hate it, but you should change your heart and love it just because others told so). And you just won't depend on your boss in everything, right? would you ask for permissin to cough or sneeze? Animals: Still no see their point. Ok, they are territorial or whatever, ok, but aren't they're connected to environment the 3 guardians supposed to protect, and if they got convinced human will destroy the planes eventually wouldn't animals too, got convinced about that? Dinosaurs are cool too but only if they have a point being in the story. Ah, and right, what does enslavement (of humans) by G.O.D. means? I was wondering about it before too, but forgot to ask. Ok... wall of text, we can argue about the plotholes and such for long - I hope you see it as contructive critics. Sorry if I might end up a bit harsh pointing out certain things I seen as controversy and all, but if I find it so, maybe reader would too, hence deal with them now, rather than have them in the completed novel and reader point them out as he/she not understands this and/or that. But you know what would I advice you to do? Write up the gist of the story of your MC, and once you have that, you'll see better what things are necessary from your concept and what has no role at all. If something has no role you might could consider omitting it, or replacing with something that has role. In other words see what background would fit to the story, rather than what story would fit the background. Afterall, the story is the center, the background is just the background. Sure background is important, very much, but pointless things has little importance and rather just end up as lose threads than anything important to the story. to the kinetic energy stuff, if others noted on too, I guess if MC's power has weaknesses too (like for example can't defeat just everyone) makes it more interesting. (IMO) |
Mar 20, 2016 8:17 PM
#9
Sora_92 said: Your text cleanup is definitelly appreciated! it's a bit better now. Ok, let me say my opinion and notes on your answer. (wall of text again, sorry for that.) If Master soul and Divine soul are made from each other, then is it possible to convert to any side from any side? Again, I'm not an expert in Nietzsche, but I wonder if the world is not just black and white, so I not see why wouldn't it be possible someone believes in himself/herself, and the same time believes in higher power. For example, a confident human who is not atheist, I'm pretty sure there are maany like that, what about them? Aand what about the Emperor/Empress's connection with the people of that Empire? Aren't your Übermensch, while believe in themselves too, put some faith in the Emperor/Empress if they choosen him/her to lead the country? Another question about G.O.D., if the followers are made from Übermensch who left that path, and choosen the path of the Divine soul, from where the monsters and divine beings came from you talked about? And let's try having a definition to what you think Übermensch is? As much as I remember when we were studying about Nietzsche, I remember things Nietzsche said like the Übermensch would be strong, confident, etc., ok, ok, that sounds cool maybe, but not everyone is like that, by nature. There are people who are weak, sick, etc., and as far as I remember, as opposed to Christian morality, Nietzsche said it's not human's duty to protect the weak and heal the sick, as that is merely a waste of time (since they're not Übermensch by nature and can't even be), the Übermensch should focus on other Übermenschen (not sure about the plural, I'm not very good in German). And also, I think that he said something that those people (who are not Übermenschen) also shouldn't reproducate, maybe, since their offsprings will be inperfect too. Why if you would have such an attitude to the Übermensch of yours, it's not a surprise if the weak and sick look for some other way. By Übermenschen (self)definition, they can't be Übermenschen, and if you say there are only two roads (I disagree with that) they literally has no choice but to follow the other road, since they can't walk the road of Übermensch. Of course, if it's only based on if you believe in yourself, it's different, since the weak and sick too, can believe in themselves, but by Nietzsche's standard (say if I remember wrong) they couldn't become Übermensch, since they're not (quasi)perfect (by nature). So how is this in your stories' world again? The election of Emperor/Empress: So, there is this complex procedure "naturals election", having them starve a little to "weed out" the weak and sick goes just as I thought Nietzsche's philosophy would think. Mental trials too, with the possible harshness of causing mindbreak and stuff, and then those who passed that too keeping their sanity and showing their intelligence the same time, fight each other to death! It sure will ensure that only the best becames the ruler. Wow, cool! ...or, wait... not necesarily. Everyone can apply, right? And everyone is Übermensch in the Empire, right? (how can the weak and the sick be that to begin with, by Nietzsche's standard?) they weed out the weak ans sick, who weren't even Übermensch to begin with, then break the mind of the weaker Übermenschen - all of these became broken, and thus aoutomatically cease being Übermensch, (growing the number of the "opposite side") then what remained, the "cream" you grind them all but one, losing the cream of the Empire in just one single event. You have a strong ruler, for sure, but you paid an impossible price for it in the health, sanity, and lives of your own people, some were among the cream of your empire before. If only the Emperor would count, this procedure would make sense, but if every human in the empire is Übermensch and they all count, then this is a rather crazy method potencially weakening the Empire on lower levels than the level of the ruler. Plus what would happen in cases - maybe not impossible - you have friends or lovers reach into the 3rd round. you make them murder each other? Survival of the fittest! The fittest who survived 3 days of starving, shown his/her intelligence while kept his/her sanity, and fought the best, including his/her best friend since childhood, and his/her lover too, and he/she killed them all, the friend too, the lover too, because he/she is not a mere human who feels such unimportant feelings such as frienship and love, a ruler not needs that, a ruler must's even be a... human being anymore... he/she is an überselfish Übermensch, a heartless Emperor/Empress fittest to rule the Empire. Sure, even I agree that feelings are not something a ruler needs to hold the first priority, he/she must see what's the best for the country and the people first of all, but even so, I'm not sure a person so heartless that could kill his/her best friend, lover - just to be on the top - just like that is a "perfect ruler" of a "perfect empire". Sure he/she is certainly Über in some way, but... is that what you think the perfect person is like? Sure if a ruler would be a bleeding heart that probably wouldn't be the best ruler either, but a brute with no feelings, I wouldn't consider that best either. Have some golden middle path, IMO. And so the people follow such an Emperor/Empress, out of? recognising he/she's the best? or out of fear? would you not fear from such a ruler? Then, the people has partly a Divine soul too, the same time. Or Imperial soul, or call it what you want, but not 100% "Master soul". And why, you said "The society in the superhuman empire is very individualistic. However people are still willing to serve others because they know it will be best for themselves, and further their own interests. So by following others, they are following themselves. " Then what's the difference if you follow others anyway, if you follow your boss, the emperor/empress, etc., than if you follow gods? Not in that whether gods exist or not, while you can see the boss and the ruler with your own eyes, but that you do follow someone! Whether you follow gods or other (stronger) humans (or both the same time) you can be an individuum still, so if there is society, (and not complete anarchy) people will both have - by your definition - Master Soul and Divine Soul the same time (which one is the stronger is a thing, but still would have both, not just one) Guardians: If their only purpose is "to simply uphold the environment's stability. Nothing more." then don't see why it's important where (what side) they stand. Aren't they're more neutral then? And if they're some high beings, with high intelligence, would they just believe what someone told them? Even if there's pollution and exploding research labs, then they would just side the other side who destroys everything in their way then? Or what? Ok, G.O.D. has some plan now at least, why they attack, but still. Ok, it sounds grandiose and evil, so guess fit a shounen story's villains role. But if you would have Divine soul, would that mean you have ABSOLUTELY NO self esteem? that you would just give up yourself completely and merging with thousands into a single being? I personally would disagree. Or even if you say that's the definition, Divine soul: no self esteem, Master Soul: has self esteem, but then who is who have absolutely no self esteem? I would assume that's very few people. And then even if you have just a little, then you're already in the other cathegory. A single candle won't light up the whole room, but you can't say it's total darkness either. Ah, and if everyone with Divine soul are like that, how the hierarcy is even useful you talk about? if the comanders etc. are also having Divine sould they're also just blindly following their bosses orders, technically then rank is just decoration as everyone is the same, useless and just followes orders of the big boss on the top... ah, wait, if that big boss has Divine soul too, then what?! Who's the big boss' boss he/she blindly followes? You Said: "Yes all those who werent corrupted by the divine soul are atheists and proud of it. Dependency on the supernatural is considered a sign of weakness and hatred towards how life is. However, they all know that they are ultimately responsible for their actions and consequences. Not taking responsibility for ones own life is considered dishonorable among them." Ok... I might not agree with that, but I don't have to. But you might as well could consider here too, world is not black and white it's not Religious people and Atheists, but rather like Christians (with a ton of sub-cathegories), Buddhists, Deists, etc., etc., and Atheists. there are many and different religions. Then, humans depend on each other many times. When a human being is born he/she is weeeak, very weeeak, would die without taken care of. He/she simply must depend on others (mom the most, I think). A student must at least partly depend on the teacher, to learn basic things that are not unique to him/her therefore can't learn on his/her own, like writing, reading, etc. of course there are many things you can learn alone too, and often school is repressing which is bad, it shouldn't be repressing. but there are basics you can't just replace with whatever unique idea of yours, reading, writing are basics like that. Then in society, we do depend on each other more or less, a scientist maybe a wonderful individuum who has wonderful unique ideas and invent great stuff, but he/she just depends on the shop at the corner to buy his/her food. And what about the ruler, you added an Emperor/Empress, aren't the people depend on him/her too, believing he/she is a great ruler and will rule the country to be prosperous and great for them. Sure the humans can be all wonderful individuums but as have constraints, why must co-work at least with a few. How much, depends on many things, and society and all. a farmer might could live completely alone growing his/her own food, and be independent from everyone. but if we're speaking about people in a city, if one focuses on this or that, like science, art, anything, they likely have to depend on others at least a bit in other things. And aren't we kind of depend on supernatural too? or at least things we don't know and can't predict. A sudden sickness, an accident, natural catastrophes, and of course positive things too, like a scientifical breakthrough, or winning on the lottery. You could say these are only depend on luck, say if you want, but they're still not in our hands to have power on them. You said and asked: "It is not possible to combine the 2. You seem to be under the impression that the ubermensch in the empire considered teamwork and cooperation a sign of weakness and shame. That is not true, most of them know the usefulness of teamming up with other people to achieve their goals. Its just that they prefer to do things on their own if possible. Those who use the divine soul however are entirely dependent on their peers and commanders to assist them to the point of fanatic devotion. They are powerless when alone but dangerous in numbers. Now you see why those 2 powers cant ever mix?" Why just as I said upper too, I not see it would be all black-and-white. The Übermensch you say do depend on others a bit too, even if that's just a little by your standard, that's a breadcrumb of that Divine soul at least. And how could the army of G.O.D. completely devote themselves to their comanders and all? I think there are very few humans who COMPLETELY would devote themselves like that, just blindly follow every orders (but on the other hand, in the army I think that is what they would want from übermenschen too, aren't? strategy requires obeying soilders, a soilder doing something on his/her own could broke a good strategy, though also could save a bad one too. But in civillans, who would COMPLETELY devote their live and everything to others? No, I would think they have at least a breadcrumb-worth of individuality too, maybe just tiny things, like dunno, taste, like if your boss say you must eat this soup but you hate this type of soup, you might still will eat it. but if the boss say you must love it, honestly, from the deepest depth of your heart, will you do so? will you love the soup you hate just because boss said so? you might will eat it, because, but you won't start to love it just because your boss said so. (assuming you hate that soup and not just said so but never tried and by trying by boss' order you realised it's good. but that you tried it, and hate it, but you should change your heart and love it just because others told so). And you just won't depend on your boss in everything, right? would you ask for permissin to cough or sneeze? Animals: Still no see their point. Ok, they are territorial or whatever, ok, but aren't they're connected to environment the 3 guardians supposed to protect, and if they got convinced human will destroy the planes eventually wouldn't animals too, got convinced about that? Dinosaurs are cool too but only if they have a point being in the story. Ah, and right, what does enslavement (of humans) by G.O.D. means? I was wondering about it before too, but forgot to ask. Ok... wall of text, we can argue about the plotholes and such for long - I hope you see it as contructive critics. Sorry if I might end up a bit harsh pointing out certain things I seen as controversy and all, but if I find it so, maybe reader would too, hence deal with them now, rather than have them in the completed novel and reader point them out as he/she not understands this and/or that. But you know what would I advice you to do? Write up the gist of the story of your MC, and once you have that, you'll see better what things are necessary from your concept and what has no role at all. If something has no role you might could consider omitting it, or replacing with something that has role. In other words see what background would fit to the story, rather than what story would fit the background. Afterall, the story is the center, the background is just the background. Sure background is important, very much, but pointless things has little importance and rather just end up as lose threads than anything important to the story. to the kinetic energy stuff, if others noted on too, I guess if MC's power has weaknesses too (like for example can't defeat just everyone) makes it more interesting. (IMO) @Sora_92 Thank you for your feedback. You are really helping me form more ideas! (also yes it is possile to defect from master to divine and vice versa I think watching this video will help you understand the Ubermensch better: Elections: You know what? you are right i should not have them fight to the death. There will still be a duel between the finalists, but the losers have the option of becoming one of the Emperor's knights/top generals/companions. I think that sounds better, you still get a higher social rank after all your suffering in the elections. Yes the people follow the Emperor out of respect, loyalty, and somewhat fear, but they are master soul dominant. I agree that no being in this universe would fall completely into one side, but the little bit of fear that powers the divine soul remains dormant and insignificant as long as they dont see the emperor as something to fanatically worship. Note i said that Divine soul is fuelled when you start WORSHIPPING something as a supernatural being. The emperor is not a god, nor the leader of some religion. The emperor is supposed to be a purely secular authority figure, not something to pray to. For example, we respect the president of the USA right? does that we worship him? no it does not. Does that answer this question for you? For the individualistic society question, the difference between following a supernatural being is that the motive i guess. If you follow a human, you are most likely doing it for your own benefit. Following a god however, you are doing it because you want to the safety and comfort of being told what to do when it comes to morality rather than go by your own code. When you go to church or any religious site, why do you go there? You go there because it comforts you to know that there is an otherworldly power watching over you and so you can focus on comforting fantasies rather than harsh reality. Also why do you go to school to get taught by human teachers? its normally because you know it would be best for you in this world, not some otherworldliness, but to help you deal with life's problems rather than ignore them. Guardians:I did not say the guardians had higher intelligence. They are basically robots made by the planet as protection. Their loyalty is to the planet, not to those that live on it. If they deem an outside influence good for the planet, then they will side with them. In the story, i was planning on having the MC fight the 3 and convince them that the Deus ultimately dont care about the planet and that humans are not the enemy. G.O.D: The reason they havent achieved their goals yet despite having control over the planet is because they need to have 1,000,000,000 humans voluntartrily submit to them. Throughout their thousand year reign they have been doing all they can to stamp out all self-esteem in humans through Education centers, propaganda, fear, beatings, threats, gifts, etc. Their oppressive influence has been hammered into most of humanity through these fear tactics. At the point where the story begins, humanity is very much been "neutered" so to speak. And there are only tiny pockets of resistance groups in hiding and various bandit gangs to fight. Those people are the only ones left who still actively fight GOD. One of the MC's goals is to restore the people's will to power. The Deum Rex is the only one of the Deus who does not need to worship anyone since it is compensated with so many people worshipping him. Rank is not just decoration. A higher ranked member of god has less people to worship and fear and more people worshipping and fearing him. Probably shouldve mentioned this but there are no promotions on the GOD's army. I guess what im trying to say is that the golden rule among the GOD is to simply be obedient to those higher than you and do whatever you want with those below you. Again, im not saying that the superhumans hate things like companionship, cooperation, and teamwork. They know that no matter how powerful you are, you are only one human. They are also aware that a society depends on cooperation, they are not against the idea of teamwork. Its just its preferable if you can do things alone, for you alone are responsible for actions. Its just the thought of leaning on some supernatural being for help is considered weakness and laziness. To put it simply, its okay to believe in other humans because it benefits both of you and you know that they are real. Its not okay to believe in gods however, because it shows that you want an otherworldly and magical solution to your problems, showing just how weak-willed you are. To counter your argument on things we cant see or feel, we cant see or feel gravity but we know its there. And there are also things we dont have power over but know are not supernatual. Like the planet's rotation, sunrises, sunsets, stars, gravity, etc. That is the goal of GOD, to make all humans entirely dependant on the Deum Rex in order to form Paradisia. That is why they spent 1000 years trying to make humans more and more subservient. Your right, as i said earlier, no one is completely on one side. Even the most independent and rebellious individual relys on others to a small degree. And the even most weak-willed people desire a small smigeon of individuality. However, again, GOD's goal is too make humans completely dependent on the Deus so he can form Paradisia. By enslavement, meant literally and mentally. GOD has been doing all they can to squelch 1,000,000,000 human souls of individuality and will. During the story, Most Humans will be shown as scared, close-minded, and submissive sheep. Hey, i just came up with this cool idea: what if you can actually be overtaken by your master soul if you let your will and powers run wild and unrestrained. And you become essentially a disobedient, unreasonable, and aggressive berserker. Those overtaken by their master soul will gain great power but at the cost of being an angry monster. What do you think? Any other ideas/ questions? I really like how we are having a thinly veiled philosophical debate with this. It gets my brain going. If this story ever takes off, ill make sure to include you in the credits :D Thank you so much! |
OutlawedDrifterMar 21, 2016 10:57 AM
Mar 21, 2016 3:59 PM
#10
| See, we're progressing with the story too, now we already have some more info on MC. Though... those also brings new questions, I think. We still not know how he will accomplish his goal though, and that is the story itself, so that should be answered the soonest. (Wall of text again, sorry for that) As for the backround; Certainly, it was a wise idea to link those videos, (not just this here, but the other too you linked in a profile comment). True, I'm not an expert in Nietzsche's philosophy, though studied about it too in school, but not that much. And these both refreshed those a bit, and I got a little better focus on what things I should look at regarding Nietzsche's philosophy and the background of your story. But I would like to add here, right at the start, whether you want to use Nietzsche's ideas, way of thinking, theories, etc. as they are as "finished products", and without critics, OR you want to use it as an element, but handle it with critics, and add your own opinion and ideas to it in your story's background? That's very important, because Nietzsche's ideas are not your own ideas, and though they might have points in common, might similar, I'm pretty sure there are things you think different than him at least in some things, and those things will ends up creating problems like controversies in your story. So that's why I would recommend do not take such a complex phylosophy as Nietzsche's without critics as a "finished product", but use it as a resource, you took some ideas from, but add your own ideas to the mix too. I personally not agree with Nietzsche in some (quite some?) of his points. Some definitelly makes sense, sure, being selfish (on some levels) is not a bad thing, if not exceeds some border, being envious too, certainly can be something to inspire you to became as successful as that other person you're envious to (if you're envious to things you can get, like money and stuff you can buy on money. if you would be envious to things like artistic talent, intelligence, well... that's a different thing. certainly you can do exercises to be better, but if you would lack the talent... things are not so very easy...) I don't care much about alcohol he said it would be something bad, I'm pretty much an antialcoholist myself, but rarely, a little glass of wine or beer won't hurt either. Of course if drinking is all a certain person does, sure he/she won't accomplish anything big in life, certainly alcoholism is a problem, but drinking with moderation, alcohol is not necessarily bad. And if Nietzsche already compared it to religion, I think maybe religion with "moderation" won't hurt either. Not because it's important what you or me believe here, but probably our discussion would go smoother if we note a few minor things? I assume (say if I assume wrongly!) that you're Atheist, right? And by my posts, you might could assume I'm not Atheist. But I wouldn't really consider myself a Christian like that either, I'm not always good with definitions, but I think I would considered a Deist. Believing in God doesn't means you're not individuum, and neither does means that, you blindly follow everything some holly book says, sure there are people like that too, but if you not just take everything without critics, and all, I think you can be (and most people are) veery individual, and the same time believe that there is at least one God. Certainly you can say that what Nietzsche said is about Christians blindly follow the Bible and priests, but putting aside neither that would be true completely (IMO) (Christians are all individuums too, just like the followers of any other religion, and Atheists too), but why I said, there are more religions, and believing in gods doesn't means you give up yourself and serve them blindly (IMO). Also, if you remove religion completely it will leave a gap, a disturbing gap. I think it was Sartre who was wondering about that - he was an Atheist, but he took it realy seriously too, to look at the whole structure how it looks like if we remove religion and God, and the structure after is bitter, he believed true, but find it bitter. How he said again, "Human condemned to freedom. And this freedom is pressing." (or something like that), since if there would be no God, what's good and what's bad? there isn't something moral and immoral, you're free to choose what you do, as there is no consequence anyway (of course there are laws, but that's still a bit different.) you're free to choose whatever road you want, and there is no "good road" and "bad road", you decide what's good and what's bad, every decision depends on you and presses you... I'm not an expert in Sartre eirther and we weren't even talkin about him right now, his philosophy too is very complex, you can look it up if you're curious, what I just want to say it's not so easy to just remove God and religion from society, because that will make a gap, and hit morality very hard too. I don't think I can explain it well, sorry... I'm not saying anything like you shouldn't be an Atheist, if you believe so, then it's all great. Atheists are great people who can think much more freely, and thus, accomplish great things without their mind would be bothered by religion. But on society's level removing religion alltogether, I'm not sure if that society can run as good and smooth. Ok, let's return to the backrougd of your story. Election: start to looks better, for sure. I still wonder about the 1st and the 2nd stages though, especially regarding the 2nd, if you torture the articipants' mind, turning some low level Übermensch into mindbroken, thus, not Übermensch anymore. You're creating people for the other side this way, it's just not wise. Ok, sure, you follow the emperor/empress, but not worship him/her as some god. Alright, agree. I guess that's not "Divine soul", but I wouldn't be exactly sure if that's 100% "Master soul" either, maybe it has some percent of something else, not "Divine soul", not "Master soul" something else. You follow the ruler for... your own benefit, but not only that, from fear and other things too, you follow a religion not only from fear in most cases IMO, but for well, you own benefit too, like, if nothing else, such things so others who follow it not look bad of you (in cases like if they're the mayority around you), but also, knowing there is a higher power who helps you if you need it, gives you ease, that ease is for your own benefit, so won't fear as much. You said that too, right? Kinda. You said: "Following a god however, you are doing it because you want to the safety and comfort of being told what to do when it comes to morality rather than go by your own code. When you go to church or any religious site, why do you go there? You go there because it comforts you to know that there is an otherworldly power watching over you and so you can focus on comforting fantasies rather than harsh reality." And, hey, doesn't you want safety? comfort? ease? do humans value comfort so much? sure. and is it bad? not necessarily. That they rather stay in comfort than fight? sure they do, is it bad? is it good? hmm... who knows, but that's how humans are. But hey, would you only progress if you fight giving up on your comfort? No, because comfort too is a motive, why else would human invent such things such as washing machine, vacuum cleaner and a bunch of other moder stuff? And, hey, it's right to be selfish? then, I'm soooo selfish, I want comfort too, and progress and stuff too! And why not? World is again, not all black and white, we can have both, IMO. And I mentioned Sartre, right? he talks about something what you note here, that morality thing is not easy at all. I can't explain what he said well, sorry. look it up if you're curious. And if I would visit churches or holly sites - I not really do so, since IMO, if God is omnipresent, you can pray any place you want - but let's say, for example if I pray or think about God, sure, partly to feel that power watching over me, but not to cloack myself in delusions, but to feel safer in this real world. But you won't tell me when or where I should pray, what things to do regarding praying and all, I'm doing all that the way I feel so. Aren't I'm an individuum this way too? No "finished product" religion I believe in, but I believe in the way I believe in. I won't pray because others said so, I will if I feel the need to. And if we're talking about anyone following religions like Christianity with the Bible, (or any other religions) neither that means they will necessarily follow everything the way as told. Some maybe, but I think, most not. You Said this too to it: "Also why do you go to school to get taught by human teachers? its normally because you know it would be best for you in this world, not some otherworldliness, but to help you deal with life's problems rather than ignore them." But hey, don't say school teaches about "real life" and "real world" things I will sure need, there are such things too we learn about, but for example I not seen sine-cosine since I graduated from highschool, I never used it to anything since. I'm not saying it's useless, it's not that, but it's not something you really need in everyday life (except if you have certain jobs that require it). Religious problems might or might not important, we at least can wonder about morality, what's good and what's bad, etc., they won't do thaat much with our life on the otside (or maybe they will do), but they will do a looooot in the inside, I would think. Guardians: Ok, ok, good, but forget not, there are humans who follow Deus too, so you can't say "human" like that. And how to convince the Guardians and stuff? G.O.D.: They can do whatever they want, there will be very few humans who COMPLETELY give up themselves, especially voluntarily. You won't find 1 000 either so fast, not 1,000,000,000! You can do anything, brainwash them from little age, they still will somehow keep some individuality (at least a little) if they're humans. ...well, thinking more you might could get them have absolutely no self esteem and all if you rise babies the way as animals, if you make them not even develop being humans, then maybe they will have no self esteem, but be like animals. but even so, they has things as selfishness, really do, animals are selfish, and then those "wild children" won't give up on themselves either. Ok, Deum Rex don't need to worship anyone... well, ok. But hey! You said "simply be obedient to those higher than you and do whatever you want with those below you" Then, what's "whatever you want"? If you WANT something, you're already an individuum on a way! - Similarly as Deum Rex himself, he has rather ambitious dreams, isn't he technically an Übermensch too? Ok, team work is ok, sure thing, I understood. But why, believing in God not means you want "magical" solutions, but there are questions science just can't answer alone, so why at places finding a solution with religion might not bad. And you won't start waiting for the roast pidgeon to magically fly into your open mouth just because you're believing there is a God, you will work similarly to others, there is no magic, and no miracles either, but there is Divine Providence you can feel giving you a bit ease. You won't just sit down doing nothing waiting for God do it instead of you, you will do things the way you do anyway. You Said: "To counter your argument on things we cant see or feel, we cant see or feel gravity but we know its there. And there are also things we dont have power over but know are not supernatual. Like the planet's rotation, sunrises, sunsets, stars, gravity, etc." Irrelevant whether you see them or not, my point was, you have no power to do anything with them. Supernatural or not, you have no power over such things like accidents. That was my point. It's not whether stuff like gravity exists though you can't see it. Sure it's that way. But what I meant was that there are things you have no power over. Maybe some are supernatural, maybe not, but even if natural, you have no power over them. You Said: "That is the goal of GOD, to make all humans entirely dependant on the Deum Rex in order to form Paradisia. That is why they spent 1000 years trying to make humans more and more subservient. Your right, as i said earlier, no one is completely on one side. Even the most independent and rebellious individual relys on others to a small degree. And the even most weak-willed people desire a small smigeon of individuality. However, again, GOD's goal is too make humans completely dependent on the Deus so he can form Paradisia." Now, at least our points get closer. Yeah, that's about what I meant. And also, that's how G.O.D.'s plan is nearly impossible, just as pointed out upper too. To be COMPLETELY dependent, COMPLETELY give up self, etc. there might be a few people doing so, but only a very few. COMPLETELY, that's it. if it's just partly that's a different question... Master soul berserker: Hmm... don't know... I personally wouldn't agree. A berserker I not see as the best unit on a battlefield. To look for some example, you know Heroes of Might and Magic 4? Berserker there is the strongest lvl1 unit, and you can't command them. sure so far would fit your Übermensch, but berserkers tend to die in battles like flies, because they run into the battle and face stronger enemies too, but... ermm... lvl.1 berserker with 20HP against a lvl4 black dragon with some 400HP and significantly huge attack, - ah, forgot, berserker also capable to attack twice - but he won't get the chance to attack twice, he will be toast as soon as the dragon retaliates. Power is nearly nothing if you not has the necessary mind to use it wise too. A berserker I would personally find veeeery far from perfect. Having that as ultimate form, would be rather a burden than a blessing. Let's look at your MC too, if you already written some info on him. Background: Ok, raised the way you said, ok. Seen elder molesting a little girl and saying those stuff, why it's just one precedent, you won't necessarily change your heart from only this - though if we include he not felt happy in his life before, and stuff, then maybe. But how exactly a 10 year old would do much research? Ok, he could find about other atricites in news, books whatever, but how would he find about the previous kind of society? In G.O.D.'s cheifs' place, I would either destroy everything from that world, or seal any info so very well, only certain autorized people have access to it, certainly a 10 years old kid would have no chance to read about such things. So, he wouldn't get the chance to read about such, but even if, self taught, everything? just don't know. However! There is something I just noticed. As I not think that society you describe the Übermenschen lived in would be quasi-perfect, BUT if you have a 10 years old bitter kid who can only compare with the current (there) society and the current is terrible (in his eyes at least for sure), might will accept that other as only alternative and as perfect. IMO, that's something veery interesting. Plus, by self study, he would understood things on his own way. Then he would fight for something he thinks perfect, despite it wasn't perfect (IMO). BUUT though the story he could learn a lot, and his opinion on things could change as infulenced by others he met along the way. Cleaning up controversies and such, adding other new things, omitting weird things he not agrees ('cuz, hey! accepting those ideas as they are without questioning anything, without criticism, would be just the very same as accepting other books Deus put in front of him) So in the end, have a philosophical view of his own. Ah, one more thing. How can he be a womanizer if he's as he is and does what he does? I mean, he did secret researches from little age, then moved out to the mountains in the middle of nowhere. As for one, when he had time to seduce anyone? And not to mention, considering that society, how things are again? I will just say again what I said before, "Write up the gist of the story of your MC, and once you have that, you'll see better what things are necessary from your concept and what has no role at all. If something has no role you might could consider omitting it, or replacing with something that has role. In other words see what background would fit to the story, rather than what story would fit the background. Afterall, the story is the center, the background is just the background. Sure background is important, very much, but pointless things has little importance and rather just end up as lose threads than anything important to the story." And I mean, the gist of the story, not just the backstory of MC, but the gist of the story how he walks along his journey, and eventually menages to overthrow Deum Rex, and free humans. And I would say, for now, let's put the background in brackets (like these ()). Focus on you have your MC, who wants to overthrow some repressive ruler and his goverment or anything, without all the philosophical background. Let's see the story, the gist, without the background. and once you have that, let's add the background, considering where it's important and drop things from it that is not important, because those will end up creating just lose ends. And solve controversies too. I would think you should reconsider the whole background, on the line how I said upper, be it as YOU think, not as Nietzsche think. But before, write down the gist of the story, because it will help a lot to see what things you should care about in the background, a lot, a little, or not at all. |
Sora_92Mar 21, 2016 4:10 PM
Apr 14, 2016 7:17 PM
#11
| hey havent read any of the walls of text so far cause its currently 2:00am here in england but you look like you have alot of constructive criticism, other than that guy that just told you to fix your grammar and get to the point quicker. tommorrow ill probs be able to get reading on the bulk of these walls and be able to contribute to the discussion. |
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