Steins;Gate or DARK

CyborgSaber said:

Ah gotcha. Well yeah work right now is slow so I was bored I also didn't like how he was acting. Plus it's not very time consuming if I'm being honest. But if your referring to what I said to you I was just telling you that you can't state your opinion as a fact that's all. I wasn't trying to start anything at all honestly.

nishant0 said:
That fact belongs to my view, like a self-created fact

MauriceA7 said:
Can anyone tell me the full name of this “Dark” anime because I wanna watch it too.

nishant0 said:
I know both these shows are diffrent and uniqe and there is nothing to compare b/w them.

Still im wondering which one of these shows use time travel better


THE ONLY THING IM INTERSTED IN WHCH ONE OF THESE SHOWS USE THE CONCEPT OF TIME TRAVEL BETTER TO MAKE STORY GOOD
if you haven't watched these two then ignore this

Mack_Yeager said:


If stein's;gate author wrote stein's;gate in 2017 then stein's;gate would have been easily better than dark , remember stein's gate came earlier than dark

S;G in 2011 and dark in 2017

Mack_Yeager said:


If stein's;gate author wrote stein's;gate in 2017 then stein's;gate would have been easily better than dark , remember stein's gate came earlier than dark

S;G in 2011 and dark in 2017

Kot_Schlyopa said:
Dark has most plot holes I've ever seen in a show and those plot holes are enormous. Its a pretty boring soap opera in disguise. Onlyl major redeeming factor is the bleak atmosphere. So Steins;gate.

SpiritVanished said:

What exactly are the plot holes in Dark

Kot_Schlyopa said:


1) Why did tanhauss' time machine create only 2 new worlds? Why specifically 2?

2) What determines the state of the 2 worlds i.e. How things will unfold in both these worlds.

3) According to butterfly effect a small change in past can lead to severe changes in future. Time travellers do things differently in both the worlds, so everything in the 2 worlds should be different including the people and how they look like, because different sperm and egg will fertilize each other.

4) A loop is formed by the resultant interactions of various time travellers but why did the time travellers in the 2 worlds made such horrible decisions that it lead to such horrible situations? For eg: I want to mug up everything a night before exam but light goes out, and there's no matchstick. However luckily i get a time machine in future so my future self travels to me to give me a matchstick (not the question paper since I am an honest person) and I decide to do the same when i get the machine. My will decides how the loop of time will play out. Similarly the resultant time loop is shaped by the will of all time travellers but why was the will of time travellers in this show so stupid that everything goes wrong? Whose will caused Jonas and Eva's child to exist in the 1st place?

5) Eva wants to destroy the world for her child whose chemistry with his mother we never get to see. Its a pathetic motivation.

6) Adam thinks he can break the loop by killing the child using energy of the 2 worlds' apocalypse. Firstly if he had made right decisions or someone else (in case he didn't exist) none of this would've happen. Also its shouldn't be possible to break the loop. Why would it be different this time? Also why energy of apocalypse? Why not a simple abortion? Dumb motivation and actions of adam.

7) The time machine in jonas' world created two wormholes. It wasn't designed to do that. It isn't explained what determines the position of those 2 wormholes. A person like him creating a time machine or its fuel is ridiculous.

8) How did eva's time machine travel across worlds? Did tranhauss there know that another world exist which was created from the origin world?

9) What machine were noah and helge were experimenting in the bunker?

10) The case of Charlotte and Elisabeth being mother and daughter of each other. Why does it exist?

11) Why didn't Ulrich tell the police about what was going on to escape from there?

12) How does time stopping for a moment break the loop? Time stopping simply means that it will resume from where it stopped at. It doesn't mean the loop can be broken.

13) How does time being stopped for a moment split Eva's world into 2? What did she have to do to ensure that? She said martha had two choices so it happened? Does that mean anyone in dilemma would create multiple worlds?

14) How did claudia break the loop? Even if that pathetic time stopping argument is assumed to be true, why only this specific claudia could break free?

15) Why didn't both the world collapse as soon as the loop was broken? Whats with the stupid fragmentation into yellow orbs? What determines which piece of matter turns into yellow orb 1st? At which moment everything will change anyway when the loop breaks since a moment can't be defined?

16) Why did claudia know about origin world? Next level deduction right here.

17) Why didn't claudia save tranhauss' children herself? Why seek adam to seek jonas and martha? For MCs to save the world? Also even if she saved the children, doesn't mean that tranhauss would be unable to create the time machine in origin world. She took a big gamble. It would've been better to kill him or talk to him. Also someone else might try to do the same things i.e. Make the time machine and fail. Not like tranhauss is the only intelligent person in the world.

18) Whats with that stupid time tunnel connected to jonas and marthas' closet? Why the closet? Why could only their younger self see them in there and not their parents?

19) What they did in the end would lead to grandfather paradox. If they saved the children of tanhauss then they wouldn't exist in the 1st place then how will they save them?

20) Hannah dreamt about all of that. Ridiculous.

Kot_Schlyopa said:
Steins;gate even though its flawed. I have never seen a show with more plot holes than Dark.

SpiritVanished said:


I'm by no means an expert on this but most of your questions are not plot holes whatsoever. I'll go through and answer them one by one because they all have in-universe explanations that make perfect sense. I think many of your issues also come from desiring science fiction to be scientifically realistic. I hope I don't have to explain how this is a bad standard to hold anything to, especially considering it's like expecting FMAB to obey the laws of physics.

1) Why did tanhauss' time machine create only 2 new worlds? Why specifically 2?
The importance of the triquetra is emphasized over and over in seasons 1, 2, and 3. It's shown on the doors in the cave and in the Sic Mundus photograph. The triquetra in seasons 1 and 2 represent the 33-year gap between the 3 eras traveled to through the cave. It comes to represent the 3 worlds in season 3. Since the importance of the number 3 and the triquetra is emphasized throughout the entire show, it would make the most sense for there to be 3 worlds. World 1: Origin world, World 2: Adam's world, and World 3: Eva's world.

2) What determines the state of the 2 worlds i.e. How things will unfold in both these worlds.
When tanhauss' time machine goes wrong, two worlds get created. These worlds are very similar to the origin world but allow for time travel and exhibit slight differences such as the side of the road the bus stop is on. These are two parallel universes but are not exact copies of each other. These differences get exaserbated over time as each causal loop is not 100% perfect (I'll get back to this later).

3) According to butterfly effect a small change in past can lead to severe changes in future. Time travellers do things differently in both the worlds, so everything in the 2 worlds should be different including the people and how they look like, because different sperm and egg will fertilize each other.
The butterfly effect does not exist in Dark. Instead, Dark relies on a series of causal loops. In the butterfly effect, a small change in the initial conditions causes a random outcome. In a casual loop, everything is predetermined and there is no chaotic outcome. Not all time travel stories need to use the butterfly effect. This is like questioning why Steins;Gate doesn't use causal loops and instead has the butterfly effect. You cannot have both in a story since together they would produce contradictory outcomes. This is nonsense.

4) A loop is formed by the resultant interactions of various time travelers but why did the time travelers in the 2 worlds make such horrible decisions that it lead to such horrible situations?
None of the time travelers in the 2 worlds made horrible decisions which led to horrible outcomes. As demonstrated by Ulrich trying to save his Son from murder, every character works for their own interest and/or what they believe is good. There are causal loops that PREDETERMINE the fate of these characters. Most of their actions have already occurred in the past, so they only have the illusion of free will.

Similarly the resultant time loop is shaped by the will of all time travelers but why was the will of time travelers in this show so stupid that everything goes wrong?
The time loop is not shaped by the will of all time travelers, it exists eternally and without regard to any particular will. In addition, the older versions of the characters work to preserve their own existence by facilitating the proliferation of the loop.

Whose will cause Jonas and Eva's child to exist in the 1st place?
The existence of Jonas and Martha's child is predetermined in the causal loop. It exists eternally without regard to the free will of any of the characters. And if you don't like that answer: You can think about it like Jonas and Martha's will.

5) Eva wants to destroy the world for her child whose chemistry with his mother we never get to see. Its a pathetic motivation.
This demonstrates a complete and utter failure to understand even the most basic plot elements of the show. Eva does not want to destroy the knot, she wants to preserve it. She wants to preserve it for her child, this is a totally realistic thing for any mother to want. We don't need to see their chemistry to understand why a mother would want to save her child. That's like questioning why a mother saved her child on the news by saying "well, we didn't actually get to see their chemistry, so this mother has an illegitimate motivation". Complete nonsense, again.

6) Adam thinks he can break the loop by killing the child using energy of the 2 worlds' apocalypse. Dumb motivation and actions of adam.
Adam wants to kill pregnant Martha to prevent the further proliferation of these casual loops. His goal is to end the suffering of the world.

Firstly if he had made right decisions or someone else (in case he didn't exist) none of this would've happen.
If Adam didn't exist, the parallel worlds would continue indefinitely as their existence is sustained by the casual loops that Eva supports.

Also its shouldn't be possible to break the loop.
Adam believes that the source of the loop is Martha's child, so in his view, killing Martha and her child would break the loop.

Also why energy of apocalypse?
This is because during the apocalypse the loophole occurs, which allows for any character to freely make any decision that they want.

Why not a simple abortion?
Adam wants to kill Martha as well to prevent her from achieving her goal of sustaining the loop.

7) The time machine in jonas' world created two wormholes. It wasn't designed to do that. It isn't explained what determines the position of those 2 wormholes. A person like him creating a time machine or its fuel is ridiculous.
I'm not sure how it's "ridiculous" for Jonas to activate the time machine. The time machine creates a wormhole that allows for travel 33 years in the past or the future, the existence of 2 wormholes is perfectly consistent with logic "1 wormhole in the present, 1 in the past/future".

8) How did Eva's time machine travel across worlds?
The golden time travel sphere allows for travel across worlds. It doesn't need an explanation. This is sci-fi.

Did tranhauss there know that another world exist which was created from the origin world?
No, the origin world was destroyed upon the creation of the 2 parallel worlds.

9) What machine were noah and helge were experimenting in the bunker?
A time machine

10) The case of Charlotte and Elisabeth being mother and daughter of each other. Why does it exist?
This is a causal loop.

11) Why didn't Ulrich tell the police about what was going on to escape from there?
Did you watch the show? He tried many times to tell the police what was going on and they all thought he was insane. This is how he ended up in an insane asylum.

12) How does time stopping for a moment break the loop? Time stopping simply means that it will resume from where it stopped at. It doesn't mean the loop can be broken.
If time stops for a second, fate is no longer predetermined and characters are free to make any decision that they want. The deterministic nature of this universe is determined by the existence of time. Again, this is sci-fi.

13) How does time being stopped for a moment split Eva's world into 2?
I'm not really sure what you're talking about.

14) How did claudia break the loop? Even if that pathetic time stopping argument is assumed to be true, why only this specific claudia could break free?
She realized that each loop is not identical and uses this information to send information to her past self. Here's a video which explains it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOmBvsdWgME

15) Why didn't both the world collapse as soon as the loop was broken?
It did.

What determines which piece of matter turns into yellow orb 1st?
This doesn't happen, it all happens at once

At which moment everything will change anyway when the loop breaks since a moment can't be defined?
I don't understand

16) Why did claudia know about origin world? Next level deduction right here.
Simple, thousands of iterations of collecting knowledge.

17) Why didn't claudia save tranhauss' children herself? Why seek adam to seek jonas and martha? For MCs to save the world? Jonas and Martha are essential for the existence of the knot, so if they go to the origin world they are able to break it.

Also even if she saved the children, doesn't mean that tranhauss would be unable to create the time machine in origin world.
Yes, this is the point

She took a big gamble. It would've been better to kill him or talk to him.
Why would she have to kill him???? And talking to him might not work. This is silly.

Also someone else might try to do the same things i.e. Make the time machine and fail. Not like tranhauss is the only intelligent person in the world.
Yeah this is true, but it isn't a plot hole.

18) Whats with that stupid time tunnel connected to jonas and marthas' closet? Why the closet? Why could only their younger self see them in there and not their parents?
This is symbolic of their predetermined fate to be together.

19) What they did in the end would lead to grandfather paradox. If they saved the children of tanhauss then they wouldn't exist in the 1st place then how will they save them?
It isn't a grandfather paradox. The time machine was created after tanhauss' children died. Jonas and Martha went back and >>changed<< the timeline to a world where they do not exist. This is why they disappear at the end of the show.

20) Hannah dreamt about all of that. Ridiculous.
Not sure how this is a plot hole.