Shocked's Blog

Jul 15, 2013 2:00 AM
Anime Relations: Serial Experiments Lain




What is the difference between childish and mature anime?


Trick question. There isn't any. Anyone can enjoy anything, tastes are subjective, "anime" is more akin to being a style, anime isn't necessarily only made in Japan, "cartoons" is too vague of a term, cartoons can have dramatic plots, anime can have toilet humor, people in their 70s and beyond can enjoy anime, blah blah blah.

We've seen this many times. Because of that, let's change the question a bit. Instead, let me ask this:




What makes an anime childish or mature?




Now we're getting somewhere.

This topic came about when I encountered the problem of recommending shows to people who don't know a thing about anime beyond "Chinese cartoons." It's a joke, but there's something underlying in that joke. Obviously, the first impression we want them to have would ideally be that anime is mature and is nothing like a "cartoon," a stigma that has linked Serial Experiments Lain to the Rugrats. I've seen plenty of arguments trying to define anime and cartoons as two different entities, but it always comes down to anime being a cartoon, while not all cartoons are anime. After all, both anime and cartoons are capable of mature and childish things. So, I believe that the question itself goes deeper then that, and I believe that's the argument of childish vs. mature.


The Futility of Defining Childish and Mature

In my mind, both these terms, when put together, are completely meaningless. Sure, you can have shows targeted at children and shows targeted at adults, but in reality, people watch whatever they want, and intended audiences, while present, are never the only ones watching. Rather, the concept of "childish" and "mature" appeal to certain mindsets that seek specific elements in what they watch, whether if it's a family-friendly message, or a violent slugfest between two testosterone-powered mechas.

There is no age attached to anime. Obviously, kids shouldn't watch shows like Elfen Lied or Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica. Still, we've probably watched similar stuff when we were kids anyways. It made us feel like we've matured, like we've stepped into a new world beyond that of Saturday morning cartoons. It allowed us to hang out with the older crowd. The cooler crowd. Made us feel smarter, more important, and most of all, more likely to be taken seriously.

On the flip side, adults shouldn't find anything entertaining about Cardcaptor Sakura or Crayon Shin-chan. Yet, we can still watch them just because they're fun. We got enough complexity in our lives, we don't need to see more drama in our entertainment. Plus, with maturity, I believe that everyone has, or will, come to the conclusion that "maturity" itself and the idea of "being adult" is just silly. When it all comes down to it, life is life. When it's great, it's great. When it sucks, holy crap it sucks. There's no greater meaning to everyday life, just as there's no greater meaning to target audiences. We like what we like, just because we like them.

With that, the labels of "childish" and "mature" breakdown.

Actually, it's strange. Isn't "childish" the label that many anime fans try to divorce from anime? Isn't that why we always rally for shows that are introspective, intelligent, or simply make anime seem separate from things like Rugrats? We see this when fans endorse shows for being bloody, sexual in nature, or intelligent in its execution. We see this when fans criticize shows for having cute girls doing cute things, or for having long-winded friendship speeches and super powerful finishing moves. Despite all this, we still can't lose that term "childish," and even if we despise that term, we still use it. So, let's do away with it.

For the remainder of this post, I will use the terms "mature" and "not mature" to describe anime. First though, let's define them.


Mature and Not Mature

You can compare specific anime and call one more mature than the other, but when generalizing, it becomes too messy to create a single answer. Art style, presentation, subject matter, delivery/execution of said subject matter, content, the behavior of the characters, the target age of the work, and other similar surface aspects of anime have no bearing on maturity. If they do, then the reasoning behind why that anime is mature or not goes deeper.

The underlying element that makes an anime mature, at least in my belief, is how said anime addresses its viewers. In other words, what does the anime ask of the audience? What sort of experience or prior knowledge is required of the audience to fully experience the anime? What sort of mental work is the anime asking of viewers to fully enjoy the show? These types of things determine how mature or not an anime is, and is one of the integral things that draw people towards specific anime.



In defining mature and not mature, I will label anime that are not mature as ones that do not ask much of the audience. This includes constant flashbacks and comments describing recent events. This, of course, excludes flashbacks and comments from complex and psychological anime, since they're used to explain events, not simply describe them. In other words, they explain the "why," not the "what." Anime that I would describe as not mature spoon-feed simple, easy-to-digest bits of information to the viewers.

Mature anime rely on the "why," not the "what." Mature anime assume that the audience is capable of thought and critical thinking, as well as the appreciation and awareness of whatever sounds and visuals are being used. This can be a complex monologue explaining one's moralities, such as Kiritsugu's and Saber's debate on chivalry from Fate/zero. It could also be flashy battles that have undertones beneath the action, such as the duels in Revolutionary Girl Utena exploring the characters and themes surrounding Shoujo works.

This ability to ask "why" also lends itself to ambiguity, where viewers are asked to decipher what a certain scene or action meant. This ignores authorial intent, of course, since even if the writer intended for a certain message, the relationship between the execution and the audience's reception cannot be controlled completely. Instead, it becomes a dialogue between the writer and the audience, where the audience is invited to solve the writer's mystery while the writer tries to clue the audience in on the answers. The cliche of "show, don't tell" comes into play here, and asks the audience to exercise mental thought.

For an anime to be mature, it needs to treat its audience as mature people. Appearance and content have no bearing. Mindless violence is not mature. It's pure entertainment at its best, giving violence junkies their fill on good old fashion brawls and beat downs. Mindless ecchi is not mature. It gives people something entertaining that relieves their sexual desires without having to resort to hentai, since they leave nothing to the imagination. Simply addressing concepts of death or moral ambiguity does not make something mature. If it's shallow, it'll, at most, serve as the foundation for discussions surrounding that issue, but it'll offer nothing new to the table. In the worst case scenario, it'll simply be the basis for the work to grow off of, never getting explored past a monologue about how people should think or act about death. It becomes a tool, rather than a concept.



There is a trust formed between a mature anime and its viewers. The anime must have trust in the audience to have a pre-existing understanding of what they're talking about. If an anime needs to explain a mundane concept in detail, it assumes that the audience doesn't understand it.

That's the philosophical baseball bat shows like Yu-Gi-Oh used to beat the concept of friendship into viewers. Anyone who has lived long enough has encountered this, and by the end of elementary school, everyone probably have had this preached to them by various people ranging parents to politicians. Going into high school and college, it has become second nature and often disregarded since we're aware of it, but acting upon it is something completely different. We can be reminded of them at times, but having such ideas preached to us like it's our first time hearing them is insulting.

It's also the subtly that Princess Mononoke used with the conflict between man and nature having no concept of good or evil. No where was it explicitly stated, and at the surface, the story very much looks like a pro-environmental message. Yes, Studio Ghibli is pro-environment, but the beauty of this movie is how humans are depicted as greedy while nature is depicted as vengeful. The interactions of the main characters Ashitaka and San, whom represent humans and nature respectively, further express how humans and nature should ideally interact, as suggested by the movie. No spoilers, but while humans and nature exist as separate entities with different goals, it doesn't mean that they can't co-exist. That's a message of friendship in of itself, and it wasn't delivered by a philosophical baseball bat.


A Final Warning about Maturity

Mature anime, both in appearance and thought, are great in their own rights. Suggesting them as entry gates to the world of anime is even better, since it gives new viewers a good first impression of the world of anime, but don't go overboard. Yes, having people acknowledge the medium as diverse and respectable is great, but it also falls upon us to take caution as to how we present anime.

What I mean by this is to cater to the person or audience you're trying talking to. It would be easy to show someone hardcore hentai to convince them that anime is completely different from Saturday morning cartoons, but that is one of the worst things an anime fan could do. For the love of crap, stop showing hentai to non-anime fans. It's funny to us, but it doesn't benefit the medium in the long term. And yeah, not everyone does that, nor do I believe it's even a noticeable amount. Still, it happens, and while it can make for some funny reactions, it doesn't even help us. It's a joke, yeah, but seriously, stop. It's the reason why we also have the stigma of anime being tentacle porn and a collection of weird fetishes. That's not what we want. If you see something like that, call it out for what it is. A bad joke. Please.

Also, don't immediately show them stuff like Serial Experiments Lain or Fate/zero. Yes, they're great stuff that would get anyone unfamiliar with anime to acknowledge that there's some smart stuff in this medium, but unless your goal is to immediately impress them, having these types of shows as their entry-level anime gives them unrealistic expectations of the medium. Many of us started off with the simple shows like Dragon Ball Z and worked out way up, and new anime fans need to do the same. It's important to know a large breadth of variety in anime before jumping into the greats, since if one is conditioned immediately to expect the best, they'd never be impressed again. It's understandable to show people our favorites and such, but start them off slow. We want them to know the extent of anime, so let's not leave them disappointed. Give them a taste, and let them crave more by themselves. Anime is rich and ever growing, so let's do anime some justice. Let them learn to love anime the same way we have: slow and steady.


Ending Thoughts

Kids aren't stupid. After all, we all used to be kids. Some of us are probably still kids too, whether physically or at heart. Perhaps we also know or knew kids that were wiser beyond their years, or perhaps had experiences that had forced them to mature quickly. I'm sure that writers know this, and they keep that in mind while they write. That's why anime can be entertaining for people who want to just relax, and intelligent for people who want to read deeper into the writer's intent. It's also the magic of how anime allows us to bring in our own experiences and compare them with characters in our favorite works. It's a sign of a mature anime to have messages only make sense if we, the viewer, have already lived through them. To an average, well to do viewer, NieA_7 would be a comedy about a girl in poverty that slowly turns into a realistic drama. To someone who knows poverty and the hardship and embarrassment it brings, this anime would instead seem like a dark comedy about someone just like them, which slowly turns into realistic drama that they could relate to.



Anime is a medium capable of great things. Let's always remember why we got into anime and why we still stick around.



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tl;dr - "Childish" and "mature" don't mean anything to me in the same sentence. Anime that are mature require viewers to either really think about to get, or need to have prior experiences to really understand and relate to. Anime that not mature is presented in an easy-to-follow way or in a manner that doesn't require much thought to enjoy.



Posted by Shocked | Jul 15, 2013 2:00 AM | 3 comments
cardemonde | May 16, 2018 4:30 AM
"For an anime to be mature, it needs to treat its audience as mature people. Appearance and content have no bearing. Mindless violence is not mature. It's pure entertainment at its best, giving violence junkies their fill on good old fashion brawls and beat downs. Mindless ecchi is not mature. It gives people something entertaining that relieves their sexual desires without having to resort to hentai, since they leave nothing to the imagination. Simply addressing concepts of death or moral ambiguity does not make something mature. If it's shallow, it'll, at most, serve as the foundation for discussions surrounding that issue, but it'll offer nothing new to the table. In the worst case scenario, it'll simply be the basis for the work to grow off of, never getting explored past a monologue about how people should think or act about death. It becomes a tool, rather than a concept."

Lord yes. This is ofc not only a problem within anime, but in many other media (novels, live-action movies), that some creators seem to be of the opinion that if you put in certain elements, it makes a work mature. They are misguided in that respect.

(Also, re: Lain: I dropped it because at the time it was too difficult to watch. It was good, but... I don't think I was in the proper mindset for it. I may resume it one day.)
 
Shocked | Dec 23, 2016 8:52 PM
Austershalin said:
Very insightful post. I haven't thought of it that way. Maturity not from the content by rather from how the show treats the audience. Usually I'm content with sitting back and just enjoying a show, but there are a few shows where I feel like I have to put more effort/mull over to fully appreciate. Speaking of Lain, I had recently started the show but put it on hold. In retrospect, it might be that I did not have more active investment and thus did not really get Lain. I'll try tackling it once more.


Thanks for your comment! Rather than judging maturity based solely by content, other ways I've started looking at anime was through the way anime speaks to viewers. This speaks a lot more on how mature an anime portrays itself, ignoring fan interpretation at the same time. I find that important because I know of a number of titles, like Naruto or Elfen Lied for example, be talked about and analyzed in-depth in spite of not necessarily being mature in thought. Similarly, I've seen titles such as Evangelion or Cowboy Bebop called not mature based on personal interpretations as well. As such, grey areas begin arising as peoples' interpretations start intersecting, creating difficulty in trying to judge and classify titles. It just becomes easier to talk about maturity in terms of anime by referring to how an anime speaks to its audience and what it requires to get the experience.

Though, the arbitrary classification of anime is an issue for another time. With Lain, it's certainly a title I hold in high regard, but it's nt something you'd necessarily feel obligated to watch if it didn't hold your investment. At the end of the day, anime is still supposed to entertain, so hopefully you can get into the mindset for a post-modernist theoretical discourse on urbanicity and connectivity
 
Graumann | Dec 23, 2016 8:03 PM
Very insightful post. I haven't thought of it that way. Maturity not from the content by rather from how the show treats the audience. Usually I'm content with sitting back and just enjoying a show, but there are a few shows where I feel like I have to put more effort/mull over to fully appreciate. Speaking of Lain, I had recently started the show but put it on hold. In retrospect, it might be that I did not have more active investment and thus did not really get Lain. I'll try tackling it once more.
 
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