Shuuka said: woah woah woah Welcome back. Any thoughts so far? |
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SoulEaterQUEEN said: Not for me.Soren said: Jack is amongst players like grave, Luna and Chione who I have a hard time reading. Because they replicate a town game extremely well as scum. And I do not have a working method to work out these type of player's alignment. Hmm, really? I think Jack's pretty transparent as town. |
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| And jack has changed his playstyle, which makes me extra cautious in reading him as I haven't played with him much recently. |
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Soren said: Jackrito said: Another misrepresentation. I find it strange how you spend nearly all your playtime on day one on a null read Jackrito said: Null reads needs to be worked out too. surely you would move onto someone else and pressure them. Jackrito said: I didn't really have a method to pressure you.Or add a lot more pressure onto me then you did both are what I expect a "town " to do. Jackrito said: I don't know what you're saying here. Can you say it again in other words please?The whole policy lynch not somethign I would expect either they is small evidence to use on you and none of it helps your case imo. Who else did you scumread in that phase then or pressure, All I saw was a fear of scumreading incase it led back to you. If you had no ideas to pressure me why bother so much, I just see stuff here that makes no sense you say you did not spend all your time pressureing me, you did apart from some twlight talk. You say nullreads need to be worked out too which is true so why not spread it out more since you know reading me is a waste of time and had no real plans to. On the last point I don't see a town, you policy lynching which added with the lack of overall scuhunting does not make me read you as town. It just reads to me as a fear to commit to something which an townie should not have and I know you don't normally. |
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| Also this twilight phase is really anti-climatic. Activity really has died down given that we have a really powerful weapon at our hands. It makes me feel as though people are a lot more calm knowing that the attention isn't on them for once. @aa-dono I hope you wake up soon, I can't wait to hear your post-day 1 thoughts are. |
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Why not work with town to figure it the alignment together? Why do you have to go off in the corner and do your own thing, hmmmmm? I can't discern your alignment if you act like a loner. |
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| Going to catchup in a bit. My biggest fear right now is that aa-dono and Soren are both randomly town. |
Crossbell said: Going to catchup in a bit. My biggest fear right now is that aa-dono and Soren are both randomly town. Then we lynch the weaker link/most likely to give more info on connections, sounds okay? |
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| Yeah, but mislynching always sucks. I really hope I'm wrong, but that's what my gut is telling me. |
Soren said: And jack has changed his playstyle, which makes me extra cautious in reading him as I haven't played with him much recently. ehehe, I like his "new" playstyle, I feel like I understand him ^^ |
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not yet; will read back in a bit |
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| 461, bio says he'd be fine for double voting shin and dono in the twilight phase because he agrees with both the arguments against them. Are you still going to double vote now that it's shifted to Soren and Dono? Still comfortable with the dono but when i was reading soren my phone died, now that im back home im reading more of sorens posts to get a feel for them.' |
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Soren said: Shinichi Shinichi-Kun said: Here you display absolute zero understanding behind my reasoning for the policy lynch I proposed. But I explained it later and you responded to it. So I will not count this as a reason for scum reading me. Soren The posts of all posts 79, not sure why you wanna policy lynch someone its extremely scummy unless you have some way to prove he's scum this is -1 point for you. Shinichi said: And what if it works because of accurate reads? Honestly, people are so scared to try things in the game because they are so scared of it backfiring. Just like the old days with day 1 lynching, everyone was so against it because people were too afraid of the chances of lynching town. But time and time again we have proven that day 1 lynching is absolutely crucial to progressing the game. 214 This is a huge if and what happen's if it back fire cause of wrong reads? And the plan was very simple. If confident scum reads, then lynch both. If unconfident scum reads, then don't lynch both. Whats the problem? Additionally, here you display that you have a problem with my thought process but fail to demonstrate the most important thing, and that is how that makes me scum. Shinchi said: Tries to discredit my reasoning by saying that you don't think it's true but then say that you doubt it. So you actually agree with me then?219 I don't think this is true because people could just be like reality and say nothing though i doubt that lol Shinichi-Kun said: Again I'm going to just say that you're too scared that this will backfire on town. I'm taking every chance we get in the game where a situation will prove to be beneficial to town. All I see here is that we have a difference in opinion here. If you think that there is something more and that it makes me scum, please do offer some further insight. curious why your so into taking the risk knowing it could hurt town greatly. Conclusion: Disagrees with my thought process but does not explain how that makes me scum. Tbf at first ya I didn't understand the policy lynch cause it wasn't you but when you said the reason behind it i kinda understand but at the same time jack also brought up good points on why did u leave you rvs for so long. Reason I think it makes you scum is because you as town I can't see you willing to sacrifice 2 town at the chance of catching 1 or 2 scum, but scum soren now I can see him risking people than defending himself by saying the reads I got will help town and so on. Cause it's a possbiiliy but i doubt you nor dono will keep quite, so this is different because ur part of the twilight anyways lol. Of course i'm scare because I don't want 2 or 3 townies to die at the chance of catching scum like day 1 lynching is one thing but if we double lynch 2 townies and then they nk another we get put into a bad position. The fact that your ok with that risk makes me think your scum who doesn't care about the consequences because he wants to get rid of town. SoulEaterQUEEN said: Also a lot more compliant as town, as scum (based on hosting exp/reading past games) he seems to have his own agenda in mind and acts on a more independent volition that "supports" town. I think jack is compliant regardless of his alignment. Shuuka said: woah woah woah Hi \o miss vanishing voter |
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SoulEaterQUEEN said: Crossbell said: Going to catchup in a bit. My biggest fear right now is that aa-dono and Soren are both randomly town. Then we lynch the weaker link/most likely to give more info on connections, sounds okay? IF they both put up enough defense to make me think they are both town then i'm voting no lynch lol, because we won't get any reads since everyone is gonna vote the weaker link. Why even throw away the weaker link when either way it won't give us much information. |
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| I think people are reading too much into Soren's lack of presence. To be honest, he's a null read to me at best since there was literally nothing but his "policy lynch" act that we can go on. My feelings say that he is town & is being pushed for all the wrong reasons. His defences are pretty genuine looking to me too. Those are my two cents after all. @Soren - Who are some of your bigger town reads & why? How do you feel about both Shinichi & Dono? |
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SoulEaterQUEEN said: Also this twilight phase is really anti-climatic. Activity really has died down given that we have a really powerful weapon at our hands. It makes me feel as though people are a lot more calm knowing that the attention isn't on them for once. @aa-dono I hope you wake up soon, I can't wait to hear your post-day 1 thoughts are. I'm awake but I'll post after class, in about 4 hours. Wish me luck for my quiz. |
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aa-dono said: Wish me luck for my quiz. gl <3 |
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Arrisu Crossbell SoulEaterQUEEN Jackrito LucianRoy Shinichi-kun Togs Followind Soren SightlessReality Shuuka Bee-Boy Bioshade Dono |
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aa-dono said: SoulEaterQUEEN said: Also this twilight phase is really anti-climatic. Activity really has died down given that we have a really powerful weapon at our hands. It makes me feel as though people are a lot more calm knowing that the attention isn't on them for once. @aa-dono I hope you wake up soon, I can't wait to hear your post-day 1 thoughts are. I'm awake but I'll post after class, in about 4 hours. Wish me luck for my quiz. Good luck, Dono. |
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Arrisu said: Arrisu Crossbell SoulEaterQUEEN Jackrito LucianRoy Shinichi-kun Togs Followind Soren SightlessReality Shuuka Bee-Boy Bioshade Dono Why do u get a slight town read from lucian I just don't feel like theres enough to analyze to put an alignment on him, so just curious what gives off the vibe. Cause both him and wind are neutral since they are lacking enough for me to give them any kind of read. |
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Shinichi-Kun said: Arrisu said: Arrisu Crossbell SoulEaterQUEEN Jackrito LucianRoy Shinichi-kun Togs Followind Soren SightlessReality Shuuka Bee-Boy Bioshade Dono Why do u get a slight town read from lucian I just don't feel like theres enough to analyze to put an alignment on him, so just curious what gives off the vibe. Cause both him and wind are neutral since they are lacking enough for me to give them any kind of read. Are you scum reading Lucian >_> |
Shinichi-Kun said: Why do u get a slight town read from lucian I just don't feel like theres enough to analyze to put an alignment on him, so just curious what gives off the vibe. Cause both him and wind are neutral since they are lacking enough for me to give them any kind of read. I see the fact that he is genuinely trying to catch up and providing us with actual game relevant information as pretty town like. Normally, scum Lucian likes to do intensive mechanics discussion & I haven't seen him do so thus far. Therefore I am calling him as a slight town for the time being. What do you think about what I said? And the rest of my reads list? Are you surprised that I have a slight town read on you? |
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| So I did some quick math regarding the set up and came up with this. Scum right now need 5 town to die in order to win. There are 14 players of which 11 are town and 3 are scum. Scum win when towns numbers are only double theirs. So that would mean right now they need to get town 6. Now this is all obvious but the main purpose I did this is to figure out the time frame for scum to get to lylo. Assuming 1 town dies per day/ twilight and another dies during night then Day 3 would be when lylo is reached. That in the grand scheme of things is pretty close by. This math doesn't take into account Vig Shot or Double lynch in which case if worse comes to worse Scum could win as early as Night 2. |
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Bee-Boy said: Shinichi-Kun said: Why do u get a slight town read from lucian I just don't feel like theres enough to analyze to put an alignment on him, so just curious what gives off the vibe. Cause both him and wind are neutral since they are lacking enough for me to give them any kind of read. Are you scum reading Lucian >_> This directed at me or ari? |
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You. |
Arrisu said: Shinichi-Kun said: Why do u get a slight town read from lucian I just don't feel like theres enough to analyze to put an alignment on him, so just curious what gives off the vibe. Cause both him and wind are neutral since they are lacking enough for me to give them any kind of read. I see the fact that he is genuinely trying to catch up and providing us with actual game relevant information as pretty town like. Normally, scum Lucian likes to do intensive mechanics discussion & I haven't seen him do so thus far. Therefore I am calling him as a slight town for the time being. What do you think about what I said? And the rest of my reads list? Are you surprised that I have a slight town read on you? The rest of yoru read list is fine we both have different opinions but still see cross and alice as town. I guess you have a point there but i'm waiting for him to catch up before i decide anything. Not really lol not like it's gonna change my view on you in the slightess. SightlessReality said: So I did some quick math regarding the set up and came up with this. Scum right now need 5 town to die in order to win. There are 14 players of which 11 are town and 3 are scum. Scum win when towns numbers are only double theirs. So that would mean right now they need to get town 6. Now this is all obvious but the main purpose I did this is to figure out the time frame for scum to get to lylo. Assuming 1 town dies per day/ twilight and another dies during night then Day 3 would be when lylo is reached. That in the grand scheme of things is pretty close by. This math doesn't take into account Vig Shot or Double lynch in which case if worse comes to worse Scum could win as early as Night 2. Let's worry about that after we see what the outcome of twilight phase is like. |
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I pointed out literally in my reponse to ari that i have a neutral read on lucian XD, did you not see that? |
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| @ari depending on who gets lynched and what they flip will decide if i'm just being dumb with my read on you or if your actualyl scum. Cause if soren flips scum or dono flips town then that will just strenghten my read on you but if that doesn't happen i'll drop my scum read on you for npw. |
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Shinichi-Kun said: SightlessReality said: So I did some quick math regarding the set up and came up with this. Scum right now need 5 town to die in order to win. There are 14 players of which 11 are town and 3 are scum. Scum win when towns numbers are only double theirs. So that would mean right now they need to get town 6. Now this is all obvious but the main purpose I did this is to figure out the time frame for scum to get to lylo. Assuming 1 town dies per day/ twilight and another dies during night then Day 3 would be when lylo is reached. That in the grand scheme of things is pretty close by. This math doesn't take into account Vig Shot or Double lynch in which case if worse comes to worse Scum could win as early as Night 2. Let's worry about that after we see what the outcome of twilight phase is like. This is just the kind of stuff I like to think about. And it's a pretty important thing to put out there to keep on everyone's mind. |
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Crossbell said: I had to do a double take when I saw that Arrisu used the same colors as me when I do town/scum lists. Can someone link me to a Lucian scum game? The only times I've played with him are when he is neutral. @Arrisu: Why do you think Bee-Boy is scum? Hm. From what I see, he isn't very invested in the game though he remains to be quite active. To me, a player who avoids spotlight but still posts enough to be considered active is a bit odd. I have other reasoning but I want to keep that to myself for now, since I'd like to observe him more in the upcoming phases. @Shinichi-kun - You do realize that town make more mistakes in their town reads then actual scum right? The fact that you say this makes me think that you are indeed mafia & so is Soren and you are using this to paint me black when the time comes. So basically you are saying that I am not allowed to make mistakes. Why do you insist on being to harsh & strict with me all the time? :/ |
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Shinichi-Kun said: I pointed out literally in my reponse to ari that i have a neutral read on lucian XD, did you not see that? No >.< This is usually a scum tell honestly.... Saying a read is wrong when you don't feel strongly either way. |
Bee-Boy said: Shinichi-Kun said: I pointed out literally in my reponse to ari that i have a neutral read on lucian XD, did you not see that? No >.< This is usually a scum tell honestly.... Saying a read is wrong when you don't feel strongly either way. I find it strange how you don't like people questionin others they is nothing wrong with asking someone why they Townread someone. Espically if you don't think they is enough info he never said it was wrong just wanted to understand it. |
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Arrisu said: Crossbell said: I had to do a double take when I saw that Arrisu used the same colors as me when I do town/scum lists. Can someone link me to a Lucian scum game? The only times I've played with him are when he is neutral. @Arrisu: Why do you think Bee-Boy is scum? Hm. From what I see, he isn't very invested in the game though he remains to be quite active. To me, a player who avoids spotlight but still posts enough to be considered active is a bit odd. I have other reasoning but I want to keep that to myself for now, since I'd like to observe him more in the upcoming phases. @Shinichi-kun - You do realize that town make more mistakes in their town reads then actual scum right? The fact that you say this makes me think that you are indeed mafia & so is Soren and you are using this to paint me black when the time comes. So basically you are saying that I am not allowed to make mistakes. Why do you insist on being to harsh & strict with me all the time? :/ Not being harsh and strict with you lol ugh i'm sorry i just see it like uhm Since you see soren as neutral and dono as scum theirs a high chance you could be scum if they flip the opposite read you have of them that's all, my read's are not definite so don't let me get to you at all when i play this game my way cause I mean no harm no matter how serious i seem. Also I'm not mafia lol why would I buss my partner and save dono if I knew she was def town. |
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Jackrito said: Bee-Boy said: No >.< This is usually a scum tell honestly.... Saying a read is wrong when you don't feel strongly either way. I find it strange how you don't like people questionin others they is nothing wrong with asking someone why they Townread someone. Espically if you don't think they is enough info he never said it was wrong just wanted to understand it. I am saying I usually see scum trying to convince people there town reads are wrong when they don't even have a scum read on said player. |
| He wasn't asking about the read he was literally saying his problems with it which is what my problem is. |
Arrisu said: Shinichi-Kun said: Why do u get a slight town read from lucian I just don't feel like theres enough to analyze to put an alignment on him, so just curious what gives off the vibe. Cause both him and wind are neutral since they are lacking enough for me to give them any kind of read. I see the fact that he is genuinely trying to catch up and providing us with actual game relevant information as pretty town like. Normally, scum Lucian likes to do intensive mechanics discussion & I haven't seen him do so thus far. Therefore I am calling him as a slight town for the time being. What do you think about what I said? And the rest of my reads list? Are you surprised that I have a slight town read on you? Lucian will do game reveant info gathering as scum the trick is if he does it with purpose to use later. Or doing it just to appear town and active the Harry potter game is a great example of him doing it without purpose. I need to check his posts to see which it is this time but that will come tomorrow. |
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Bee-Boy said: Shinichi-Kun said: I pointed out literally in my reponse to ari that i have a neutral read on lucian XD, did you not see that? No >.< This is usually a scum tell honestly.... Saying a read is wrong when you don't feel strongly either way. Never said ari read was wrong tho I was just asking how she came to that conclusion <_< |
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Shinichi-Kun said: Not being harsh and strict with you lol ugh i'm sorry i just see it like uhm Since you see soren as neutral and dono as scum theirs a high chance you could be scum if they flip the opposite read you have of them that's all, my read's are not definite so don't let me get to you at all when i play this game my way cause I mean no harm no matter how serious i seem. Also I'm not mafia lol why would I buss my partner and save dono if I knew she was def town. In all seriousness, I do feel constantly tunnelled by you in the last few games. It's not fun, especially when I'm no the one who is really targeting you to begin with. Let's leave it here for now. |
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Arrisu said: Shinichi-Kun said: Not being harsh and strict with you lol ugh i'm sorry i just see it like uhm Since you see soren as neutral and dono as scum theirs a high chance you could be scum if they flip the opposite read you have of them that's all, my read's are not definite so don't let me get to you at all when i play this game my way cause I mean no harm no matter how serious i seem. Also I'm not mafia lol why would I buss my partner and save dono if I knew she was def town. In all seriousness, I do feel constantly tunnelled by you in the last few games. It's not fun, especially when I'm no the one who is really targeting you to begin with. Let's leave it here for now. Ik but you give off strong vibes when i play with you so i try not to dismiss though's espically if scum ari and town ari play the same sometime's i gotta look past your meta and use it as a read if only a little read. Also you didn't reply to later in the first phase I wasnt really tunneling you I had other prorities. Just some of the stuff you said made me think you might be scum so i persued it. |
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Arrisu said: Shinichi-Kun said: Not being harsh and strict with you lol ugh i'm sorry i just see it like uhm Since you see soren as neutral and dono as scum theirs a high chance you could be scum if they flip the opposite read you have of them that's all, my read's are not definite so don't let me get to you at all when i play this game my way cause I mean no harm no matter how serious i seem. Also I'm not mafia lol why would I buss my partner and save dono if I knew she was def town. In all seriousness, I do feel constantly tunnelled by you in the last few games. It's not fun, especially when I'm no the one who is really targeting you to begin with. Let's leave it here for now. I'm sorry if I come off that way but with all due respect i don't do it out of spite or hate it just alot of the stuff you say or do gives off vibes that other's seem to dismiss. |
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| Anyways the problem at hand is dono and soren lol i'm jsut waiting for dono to get back so i can see what she has to say. |
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Shinichi-Kun said: Arrisu said: In all seriousness, I do feel constantly tunnelled by you in the last few games. It's not fun, especially when I'm no the one who is really targeting you to begin with. Let's leave it here for now. I'm sorry if I come off that way but with all due respect i don't do it out of spite or hate it just alot of the stuff you say or do gives off vibes that other's seem to dismiss. Alright. I can understand that. Thanks for explaining it a bit better. :) |
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LucianRoy said: Only less than half of Page 10 Not sure if Bee-boy is still reading Jack as scum for his lack of scum-hunting, but he just walled a shit-ton of analysis at the top of page ten that looks a lot like trying to figure out the scum in the game. Speaking of the wall, I really liked Jack's points about Soren's early game-play from the perspective of Soren reading Jack as scum. I also liked the reaction to the push from Bee-boy on him, I can see town!Jack raising his eyebrows in confusion over the entire thing. Dono gets slightly defensive in 454 after Jack pointed out her play in this as being "anti-town" towards the strategy for the double lynching mechanic at play, and in return she takes a much more neutral stance about double lynching. Is it odd that she would get caught up over something like this? 461, bio says he'd be fine for double voting shin and dono in the twilight phase because he agrees with both the arguments against them. Are you still going to double vote now that it's shifted to Soren and Dono? Soul accuses Shin of guilt-tripping in 464 saying it's super scummy. Remind me about the mindset behind that please. I feel like there wasnt enough on soren to classify them one way or another and i wouldnt want to risk a double town lynch so ill probably just be going for the single lynch. |
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Shinichi-Kun said: Arrisu said: In all seriousness, I do feel constantly tunnelled by you in the last few games. It's not fun, especially when I'm no the one who is really targeting you to begin with. Let's leave it here for now. Ik but you give off strong vibes when i play with you so i try not to dismiss though's espically if scum ari and town ari play the same sometime's i gotta look past your meta and use it as a read if only a little read. Also you didn't reply to later in the first phase I wasnt really tunneling you I had other prorities. Just some of the stuff you said made me think you might be scum so i persued it. Past tense here. Have you arrived at a different conclusion currently? |
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bioshade2 said: LucianRoy said: Only less than half of Page 10 Not sure if Bee-boy is still reading Jack as scum for his lack of scum-hunting, but he just walled a shit-ton of analysis at the top of page ten that looks a lot like trying to figure out the scum in the game. Speaking of the wall, I really liked Jack's points about Soren's early game-play from the perspective of Soren reading Jack as scum. I also liked the reaction to the push from Bee-boy on him, I can see town!Jack raising his eyebrows in confusion over the entire thing. Dono gets slightly defensive in 454 after Jack pointed out her play in this as being "anti-town" towards the strategy for the double lynching mechanic at play, and in return she takes a much more neutral stance about double lynching. Is it odd that she would get caught up over something like this? 461, bio says he'd be fine for double voting shin and dono in the twilight phase because he agrees with both the arguments against them. Are you still going to double vote now that it's shifted to Soren and Dono? Soul accuses Shin of guilt-tripping in 464 saying it's super scummy. Remind me about the mindset behind that please. I feel like there wasnt enough on soren to classify them one way or another and i wouldnt want to risk a double town lynch so ill probably just be going for the single lynch. Do you have thoughts on who may be a better target to lynch this phase? |
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Crossbell said: I had to do a double take when I saw that Arrisu used the same colors as me when I do town/scum lists. Can someone link me to a Lucian scum game? The only times I've played with him are when he is neutral. @Arrisu: Why do you think Bee-Boy is scum? The game was mentioned, but not linked so here it is: http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1496937 |
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Shinichi-Kun said: @ari depending on who gets lynched and what they flip will decide if i'm just being dumb with my read on you or if your actualyl scum. Cause if soren flips scum or dono flips town then that will just strenghten my read on you but if that doesn't happen i'll drop my scum read on you for npw. I really don't like this attitude. So you are holding Ari accountable what happens this day phase. How is that even fair? Town is in it together, town is not fully certain on any alignment. Sure there are reads but nothing is certain they are just mere thoughts based on events that happened D1. Town chose both Soren/dono to go into the twilight phase. Ari thinks Soren is mostly neutral with slight town vibe, and Ari thinks dono is scummy based on how she is acting which fair because the more I read how she reacted to the votes, the worse vibes I got as well. So you are basically telling me that if Arrisu doesn't end up being an ultra scum hunter and make the right choice by not lynching scum today then she is scum? You are basically tunnelling into her the exact same way she tunnelled into dono, but yet you keep screaming how you are town quite a bit. If you are townie, you need to keep an open mind that town CAN make mistakes too with their actions, but the way they recover from it should help re-evaluate their alignment in your eyes. You have to remember as town you should not feel confident in any read you make and should be prepared to re-evaluate every little moment something new has happened. |
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SoulEaterQUEEN said: If you are townie, you need to keep an open mind that town CAN make mistakes too with their actions, but the way they recover from it should help re-evaluate their alignment in your eyes. You have to remember as town you should not feel confident in any read you make and should be prepared to re-evaluate every little moment something new has happened. I do tend to keep an open mind my opinion isn't firm its subject to change. Aggresive players like ari normally are quite confident so I know she wouldn't train someone as hard as dono unless she had complete confidence in her view. I will not hold it against her if she is wrong but doesn't mean I'll also over look any alignment indictiveness either from the lynch. I'm prepared to evaluate all my reads during and after the twilight phase because people are subjected to changed based on these lynch results unless both are town then at that point not sure what to think XD. |
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SoulEaterQUEEN said: Shinichi-Kun said: @ari depending on who gets lynched and what they flip will decide if i'm just being dumb with my read on you or if your actualyl scum. Cause if soren flips scum or dono flips town then that will just strenghten my read on you but if that doesn't happen i'll drop my scum read on you for npw. I really don't like this attitude. So you are holding Ari accountable what happens this day phase. How is that even fair? Town is in it together, town is not fully certain on any alignment. Sure there are reads but nothing is certain they are just mere thoughts based on events that happened D1. Town chose both Soren/dono to go into the twilight phase. Ari thinks Soren is mostly neutral with slight town vibe, and Ari thinks dono is scummy based on how she is acting which fair because the more I read how she reacted to the votes, the worse vibes I got as well. So you are basically telling me that if Arrisu doesn't end up being an ultra scum hunter and make the right choice by not lynching scum today then she is scum? You are basically tunnelling into her the exact same way she tunnelled into dono, but yet you keep screaming how you are town quite a bit. If you are townie, you need to keep an open mind that town CAN make mistakes too with their actions, but the way they recover from it should help re-evaluate their alignment in your eyes. You have to remember as town you should not feel confident in any read you make and should be prepared to re-evaluate every little moment something new has happened. Also, sorry if I sound pissed here, I just find it unfair that some people get more pressure than others when it comes to these games. |
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