A "Reason to Believe" is the weak link of Season 2 Pt 2

Emilia is now changed character because Subaru semi-forces a kiss on her after being a jerk and a hypocrite in their argument

Okeanix said:

Re-watch entire series again.

SatouMatsuzaka said:


It wasn't a good episode, you can be critical of your favorite anime too, you know. A fan to a fan.

SatouMatsuzaka said:
Before you write me off as just a S2 "hater" that cares only about action or suspense, I gave S2 Part 1 a 10/10. Ever since they released ep 15, I could not get it out of my mind that something didn't work for me. My point has to due with the dialogue itself. Cringe is not the right word I would use, but Subaru had some really out of character lines that destroyed any romantic tension in this scene. It doesn't help at all that he broke his promise to her the night before. I have argued since I watched S1 how he's an incredible protagonist, and how he develops into a respectable hero, but here it felt like regression of some of the progress he made. The thing that sucks even more is that this scene serves as the set up for the rest of Emilia's arc, and it's mediocre execution weakens her potential development significantly for the rest of the season. Emilia is now changed character because Subaru semi-forces a kiss on her after being a jerk and a hypocrite in their argument. I pinpoint two lines that really didn't work for me.

1) "I'm suffering for you here! At least try to look cute as I hoped you would."

Pretty jerky line there, what was he really expecting to get out of her when Subaru said this?


2) "Who the hell would go through all that suffering to help a pain in the ass like you?"

Really strange comment, that almost feels like Subaru wanted to manufacture some sort of insult so she'd believe he was being critical of her. I don't recall that he has ever given her any actual constructive criticism. Also, does he REALLY have any right to say that when he's the one who broke his promise just the night before? I would think not.

All throughout the conversation, Subaru is avoiding her question about why he broke it and it further sours the eventual kiss, even with the really nice insert song "Door" playing.
As far as the camera angles go, the scene could have been more dynamic instead of majority face shots, but that's a minor thing.

I am well aware that I'm in the minority with this opinion, but I wanted to get this off of my chest. If I look at only WHAT happened in this episode, it would have been a 10/10. Subaru finally kissing the person he says he loves, and encouraging Emilia to continue her trial, how could one dislike that? The execution matters, and here it didn't work.

Subaru screams the whole of his feelings in desperation, only for Emilia to yell over him. How great of a detour had he once taken for the sake of voicing these feelings? How great an obstacle had Subaru overcome for the sake of telling what ought to be told? These love confessions, thrown around so much they practically look cheap, were all entirely Subaru's truest sentiments, spoken from the whole of him, seeped through to every portion of his soul in their legitimacy

Not a fragment of logical debate, this is a collision of emotional reasoning.
Like two tantruming children showering insults on the other, Subaru and Emilia both loudly assert their feelings.

Her voice shakes, her eyes waver, as Emilia attempts to reject Subaru. His words are not communicating this. His attitude would not convince her either. In that case, the only way to convey his feelings for her was through action.
And so,

Saber_Evergarden said:


wow so big brain never knew one could do that wow

QcDiablo said:
I had to go in the middle of writing this post so hopefully I didn't miss anything.
You can ask me anything you want... if you want.

foxyahoo said:
Damn how can someone be so wrong in so many words.

Are you going to ignore all the shit he was doing by breaking the promise? Pandora is an asshole but if something that she said was true is that no always you can keep promises.

The line about suffering makes sense, it's to make Emilia realize that he likes her even with all her flaws and how hard is to deal with her and everything that happens around her.

He avoided talking about it because it was supossed to be a surprise that he wrote in the tomb for her, did you miss that part?

The kiss was to prove her that he was serious, it was not even mean to be a romance development.

Emilia fully changed because her memories returning and accepting her past, Subaru had some motivations on that but it was mostly Emilia and her love to her mother what made her change.

And the only weakest link is the Roswall/Ryuzu flashback for me, the execution was super meh on that one.

QcDiablo said:
Don't listen too much to the elitists who only know how to trash talk people.

I'll try to remove some dust from the issue and hopefully I'll be able to shift your view toward Reason to Believe a little.

There is a lot of smaller details that were present in the novels that were either harder to understand in the anime or simply not present.
This lack made it seem like Subaru was a total jerk toward Emilia and generally speaking, made misunderstandings much easier, while it was frankly impossible to view the scene as such in the novels.

First, the novels explicitly explain that the two of them are having a "children's argument". The scene was never meant to a confession from Subaru and mostly, it was absolutely never meant to be romantic: that was EP 25 of season 1.
Instead, it's Subaru trying to find the right words so Emilia doesn't feel alone and overprotected like a useless princess. Subaru's emotions end up explosing and he uses "love" as a reason all over the place but his goal was to give courage to Emilia explaining she'll always be there whatever happens.
The point of the argument was never the broken promise either, but Emilia's insecurities. The reason the broken promise mattered is because it's part of the insecurities, but it was never the main subject itself.
You can also see Subaru having multiple tone shifts during the argument, going from positive to negative in an instant; that's him choosing his words to please Emilia's expections of Subaru's reaction. Subaru really thinks those insults, but they're not what he would normally say in his current mood (glad that he found Emilia). He consciously chose those words as he analysed Emilia's reactions (more on this below).

Taking the argument from the start:

1) Emilia is unhappy to hear that Subaru wasn't angry against her. She finds herself useless because she didn't get to be into the action in the previous events of the series (Subaru casted her away in every previous arc so she wouldn't get in danger), so she has a complex where she also thinks people around her finds her useless and won't expect anything from her.
Therefore, she's saddened as she thinks Subaru treats her 1) as someone who he doesn't have expectations from and 2) as someone special (she absolutely despises having a special treatment due to what she's endured from her lineage)

Subaru stumbles that he doesn't think like that, but Emilia quickly cuts him short.

2) Emilia is angry that Subaru (and Puck, etc.) broke his promise and asks him why he broke his.

Subaru can't answer why he broke the promise 1) because of his plan with Otto and 2) to draw tons of encouragement messages on the inner walls of the trial grounds. Both of which wouldn't be satisfying answers toward Emilia's distress.

Subaru has his first tone shift. He understands that he won't be able to help Emilia with sweet words. Instead, he starts acting (emphasis on acting) angrily to refute the first point Emilia brought up. He tells her that he loves her and starts explaining that she's "all talk". He tells her she's useless and that he can't bear with it anymore, in a way that shows he had at least some expectations toward her.

Emilia weakly accepts the insults like she's a child who wants to calm Subaru down so he doesn't add more to his speech that's hurting her.

Then Subaru's true colors surface and he tells her again that he loves her despite all that. He proceeds to list a series of really superficial qualities of Emilia (her beauty, etc.) but ends up with one or two actually decent compliments (her kindness and her selflessness).

3) Emilia reacts strongly and with some anger that Subaru changed the subject to give her random compliments instead of sticking to the "Emilia is useless" argument.

Second tone shift. Subaru agrees to Emilia's sentence and goes back to what he was saying previouslty (thatshe's useless, etc.)

Emilia asks him why he would forgive her since she's so useless. This line implies that she thinks Subaru is protecting her like a princess and expecting nothing of her.

The two exchange a bit, Subaru ends up telling he believes in her because he loves her and that there's no other reason anyone would be willing to go through everything that Subaru went through for "a pain in the ass like [Emilia]". This is one of the two lines you found controversial. However I believe it is very fitting: Subaru really went through a lot and if it's not a proof he loves her then what is? This is one of the only lines without a proper monologue explaining it in depth but I'm pretty sure "pain in the ass" wasn't just an insult for the sake of being an insult. It's really Subaru's truest sentiments, even though the phrasing is strange without context. I am certain it refers to how Emilia is far from being perfect and how she has been totally useless up to that point in the story. Therefore I don't think the comment strange, quite the contrary: it's fitting to the narrative, the characters' current objectives, Subaru's and Emilia's exploding emotions at the moment and it seems like a line Subaru would say out of desperation (he is desperate at that moment).

Subaru goes on about how even now he's suffering (because he doesn't have the qualifications for the trials anymore).

4) Emilia responds that she didn't ask for that and that what Subaru is doing is selfish since this doesn't go along Emilia's own emotions.

Then, Subaru drops a bomb by saying he doesn't care of her feelings of uselessness because he's the one suffering and that she should try to look more cute as a "reward" or something.
The WN has a different line for this. It's fairly similar but has a different connotation. Subaru still tells her that he tries to look cool in front of her and what would make her think best of him, but he also mentions that he tries to do what will make her the happiest. Instead of being focused on himself, he says that "people" are going through a lot of effort and suggests her to look cute once in a while. Like I said, it's quite similar, but the connotation of the "try to be cute" part is slightly different and it's in reality more of a "please appreciate what we're doing for you" but mixed with Subaru's idiocy and his exploding emotions. Despite that it's such a jarring line (I still have a hard time with this one), it's within of the limits of Subaru's character and has some meaning and truth to it.

Subaru and Emilia share three or four hate/love lines. Then:


Those two quotes explain how it's not a logical argument and give a big hint that both's emotions are exploding.

We jump in time a bit until right before the kiss.

This shows that Subaru really wasn't trying to be a dick and try to manipulate Emilia.
Subaru does not know if Emilia actually wants to be kissed at first (which is why he asks her to dodge if she doesn't want it) but after the act is done, Emilia really is grateful that Subaru kissed her, this is shown in the narrative a few times afterwards.

...

I had to go in the middle of writing this post so hopefully I didn't miss anything.
You can ask me anything you want... if you want.