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Feb 29, 2008 10:18 AM
#1
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Dec 2007
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Pro-level Japanese players were asked how they ranked their character match-ups. Here's the source:
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/5539/tierlistmaybecopyvb9.jpg

Some dudes at MeltyBread.com have taken that info and built a tier list out of it. Here's one of them:
http://www.meltybread.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1170.0;attach=1679

(How to read the chart:
Best out of 10 games. If Aoko is 4.38 to V. Akiha, then Aoko would win 4.38 games out of 10. Obviously, this is if two equally skilled players went at it.)

*********

Take note that tier lists only matter at high-level play. It's not impossible for a low-tier character to win against top-tier, it's just that the odds are stacked against low-tier. And that's because a low-tier character has less options and worse risk/reward than top-tier.

Among non-pro players, tier lists don't matter. It's because advanced tactics aren't being used and there aren't as many mind games going on. If anything, you could say there's a whole other tier list for lower-level play where Nero would probably be top-tier just because people hit the panic button and get destroyed by Mantis Legs, Wolf Claws and HHHHUUUUAAAAAAAAAAAA's all day long.

For myself, I am definitely NOT a pro. There is no shame to losing to a Satsuki and/or White Len player.
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Mar 1, 2008 10:37 PM
#2

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Oct 2007
169
Oh, Christ... not that list again :(
Mar 2, 2008 4:01 AM
#3

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Feb 2008
590
Wow, interesting. No wonder Ciel is #1, she has the most options. I didn't think Satsuki would be the worst character though :/

Mar 2, 2008 6:06 AM
#4

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Feb 2008
561
I think V Sion is the worst.
She has almost no special moves and her arc drive sucks. ( But even like that i'm preaty good whit her right now. )

Dosn't has the most options.
Mech-Hisui dose. But Ciel has bater ex drives.
( if by option you men the amount of moves you can use. )
Mar 2, 2008 6:46 AM
#5

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Feb 2008
590
Not just number, but qualities. V.Sion is probably really useful in professional gameplay where they make real good use of her agile movements.

Mar 2, 2008 7:01 AM
#6
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Dec 2007
22
amcsi said:
Wow, interesting. No wonder Ciel is #1, she has the most options. I didn't think Satsuki would be the worst character though :/


She's statistically the worst character in the game, but SBO '07 was won by a Satsuki player:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sU36JWBJHoU

Revillo_Phoenix said:
I think V Sion is the worst.
She has almost no special moves and her arc drive sucks. ( But even like that i'm preaty good whit her right now. )

Dosn't has the most options.
Mech-Hisui dose. But Ciel has bater ex drives.
( if by option you men the amount of moves you can use. )


V.Sion's got an incredibly fast dash, decent high/low mix-up and a good okizeme game with her summons.

By options, I don't mean how many moves you can use total, but how many moves are useful to you in that specific matchup. for example:

Mech-Hisui has a good match-up vs. Nero because Nero can't get in - Mech-Hisui will spam projectiles and keep him at bay the entire game. Nero's forward dash is a slow teleport. Nero can try an aerial approach, but Mech-Hisui's jetpacks dominate the air. And Nero's large hitboxes do not help him. If Nero tries to summon anything from a distance, Mech-Hisui's optic blast and/or crossbow can hit him during startup animation. Most of Mech-Hisui's moves are fairly safe to use vs. Nero since he can't punish them, so she has more options in this matchup. For the record, Mech-Hisui vs. Nero is: 6.50

Now take Mech-Hisui vs. Ciel. (4.25 vs. Ciel) Ciel has an incredibly fast forward dash which can punish Mech-Hisui's jetpacks during startup frames. Ciel's dash will also dash under Mech-Hisui's optic blast. And it's fast enough to punish Mech-Hisui if she misses crossbow. Nearly all of Mech-Hisui's projectiles can be punished by Ciel's EX Hiero from a distance. All of the options Mech-Hisui had available vs. Nero are risky vs. Ciel. Mech-Hisui still has the same amount of moves, but they are more risky vs. Ciel.. which is why she has less options in this match up. Mech-Hisui vs. Ciel is 4.25.

-----------

In the end, tier lists can be referenced, but they shouldn't be taken as facts. This tier list was compiled by pure opinions of Japanese pro-level players. It's possible SBO '07 was won by a Satsuki player because no one in Japan played her seriously, so everyone underestimated Satsuki's potential - and as a result, lost to a Satsuki player (Denpa) who spent the time to master her.

Or it could be true that Satsuki actually really sucks, it's just that Denpa is an amazing player and would have won regardless of what character he was using. Or maybe he got lucky at the right moments.
Mar 2, 2008 9:44 AM
#7

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Feb 2008
590
Actually it all depends on skill. Some characters are easier to play with, some are harder, but with the right effort, can kick ass. There's no limit to how good you can play in the end.

Mar 2, 2008 10:57 AM
#8

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Apr 2007
182
Tier Lists are full of crap. Basically all you need to know is that Sion's at the top and the Nekos are at the bottom. The rest doesn't mean anything.
Mar 2, 2008 4:47 PM
#9

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Feb 2008
486
Well good to know Red Arcueid is on 2nd :D
V. Akiha is 8th only...but hey she is B class almost B+.
Well above V. Akiha is: Ciel, Red Arcueid, Ren, Sion, M Hisui, Miyako, Hisui.
I don't have a clue how Ren, Hisui and Miyako are above V. Akiha? I can understand Ciel, Red Arcueid and Mech Hisui. Sion is equal to her.
Ciel:
She has broken EX drives and High dmg combos: 4,5k-5,5k, and annoying moves. If you lack of defense your're a dead man.

Red Arcueid:
She is simply strong, high combo dmg 4k-4,5k, strong EX's and annoying teleports. I know this char, since it's my 2nd best char (before V. Akiha she was my 1st best char). So for me it's not a big deal. I know every moves of her, and how to counter them.

M Hisui :
She has range moves, lots of options, and got high variety moves + EX's. But V. Akiha has the chance to fight back with her speed.

Sion:
- She is equal to V. Akiha. Both fast and got some good moves, mid-high combos 4k

Ren:
She got advantage cuz of her height, but that's all. You have to modify your combo's to fit her, that's the key. Disadvantage: She's receives high dmg, just like V. Akiha.

Hisui:
She is better with Kohaku. Not a big deal. You can easyly counter her moves with V. Akiha's speed and rush.

Miyako:
Simply a useless char. I only fought once against a "pro" Miyako player, but after a few matches I can manage to analize his tactics and I'm able to beat him. Altou it needed high concentration due to Miyako's moves, cuz I don't have any clue what her moves does...(example: anti-air etc). But a lil anilze after in practice, and no Miyako can beat me ever again...

Relunx
Mar 2, 2008 5:02 PM

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Feb 2008
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Ciel: Ok that is perfectly right.

WArc: Ok that's still can be right.

M Hisui: I think that is correct as well but now this one i based on situations. M Hisui might be use full in more situation do to her great range in blast and meele attacks but some times V Akihas speed can help out more.

Ren: Not right...She has no advatige ovr Akiha that would make her bater.

Myako: Maybe those anoyng I go to your other side moves but still she sucks. ( I just tried her out again today and she sucked ass. )

Sion: Not right. Lot's of her moves are hardly usable. Arc drive is anty air and in pro most people are in the air but that's still not a good enough.

Hisui: Not right. She has sme anyng move but they are anoyng at best. And she is bater off whit out Kohaku btw. ( But Kohaku is bater whit hisui since in that way one can borow hisuis arc drive since Kohakus arc sucks. )
Mar 2, 2008 6:33 PM

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Apr 2007
182
I wanna take on that Miyako challenge Relunx.
Mar 2, 2008 11:37 PM
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Dec 2007
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Relunx said:

I don't have a clue how Ren, Hisui and Miyako are above V. Akiha?


- Len's aerials have good range and mad priority. Even though V.Akiha has two air dashes, she's gonna have trouble facing Len in the air. Len's crouching hitboxes also make harder to hit her. she takes damage, but she GIVES damage as well. Her combos hurt. And if you're in the corner, they can be extended to hurt even more.

- Hisui's higher on the list than V.Akiha, but she's still 4.75. V.Akiha has a slight advantage over Hisui in this matchup.

- Miyako's damage output is high. Her throw is very good. And if your opponent knows how to tech punish, you WILL be afraid when his Miyako has you in the corner.

-------------

Dont' take the tier list TOO seriously, guys. It shouldn't be an excuse for why you win/lose a certain matchup, it should be there for you to prepare and study why you may need extra practice vs. a certain character : p
Mar 3, 2008 8:43 PM

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Feb 2008
561
Or I could use it to always chose the most suitable character in a fight. ( Since I can use almost all characters in the game. ) But I would be an asshole if I do that so I won't. ^^"
I always just use the one I feal like using.
( I don't like using one character for many matches straight for 2 reson.
1: I'll get bored of that character. Playng whit a different character whit different moves against the enemy is always a new challenge. I can have a fun time tryng out the moves of the new character on the enemy to see wich one works the best. Also I can see wich character works the best so I can change my own character rank list.
2: My enemy will get used to that characters moves and will predict them after some time. At least I usually do that when my enemy is using 1 char. So it's an advetige for me to change characters often. )
Mar 3, 2008 9:44 PM

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Oct 2007
169
Mailorder said:

By options, I don't mean how many moves you can use total, but how many moves are useful to you in that specific matchup. for example:

Mech-Hisui has a good match-up vs. Nero because Nero can't get in - Mech-Hisui will spam projectiles and keep him at bay the entire game. Nero's forward dash is a slow teleport. Nero can try an aerial approach, but Mech-Hisui's jetpacks dominate the air. And Nero's large hitboxes do not help him. If Nero tries to summon anything from a distance, Mech-Hisui's optic blast and/or crossbow can hit him during startup animation. Most of Mech-Hisui's moves are fairly safe to use vs. Nero since he can't punish them, so she has more options in this matchup. For the record, Mech-Hisui vs. Nero is: 6.50



Exhibit A: West Toast X Kjiea vs Arlieth :D
Mar 3, 2008 11:37 PM
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Dec 2007
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Vladimir_Putin said:
Exhibit A: West Toast X Kjiea vs Arlieth :D


Kijea is pretty darn good : p He's a Korean player who doesn't speak very much English. Another excellent Korean Ciel player named CL (clever, eh?) says Kijea is probably the best Mech Hisui in Korea. And I have no idea why, but he's living in southern CA right now. So yep.

I played Arlieth at West Toast 4 and he destroyed me. So that's proof that tier lists only matter at high-level play. It's been a year now, but I have no doubt in my mind that Arlieth would still murder me with Nero. I just haven't practiced enough.
Dec 7, 2009 8:46 PM

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amcsi said:
Not just number, but qualities. V.Sion is probably really useful in professional gameplay where they make real good use of her agile movements.


her normals are strong shes like mid tier

normal sion is top tho

Mech lacks a way to get out of pressure

Also that tier list is Terribad
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