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Haikyuu is basically a conscious attempt by Furudate to improve on Slam Dunk's shortcomings

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Apr 7, 12:08 AM
#1

Offline
Dec 2020
1353
I actually uploaded this in the general anime discussion forums but since I think basically nobody is going to reply there I'm putting it here as well XD.
PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE COMMENTING. I don't mean that Haikyuu is inherently better than Slam Dunk because of what I'm going to try to convey in this thread (as both mangas are incredible), it was just an interesting thing to think about and I was curious if anyone else had thought about this before. I have both mangas rated as a 9 for anyone wondering so this is not a slander in any way.
A couple of years ago I watched Haikyuu until the Inarizaki match and later read the rest of the manga. Of course I always heard about how legendary Slam Dunk is but I never really got to reading it until recently. While reading it I naturally noticed all of the similarities between both stories (as I would presume Haikyuu was greatly influenced by Slam Dunk) and it was a great read. But after finishing it I actually had some complaints about the story as a whole that I discussed with some of my friends and a thought came to me: Haikyuu actually solves all of Slam Dunk's big problems.

SPOILERS AHEAD (in any case XD)

The complaints I have regarding Slam Dunk are basically 3 big problems that I have with the story: the first 70-ish chapters (of 276 total chapters, so it is a pretty big part), the lack of more character development for basically every important character and the ending of the story. The 3 points would be basically fixed if the manga had 100 more chapters, but I will get to that later.
Now, starting about the complaints, there is practically no basketball until you get to chapter 75 (or smth like that) and before that the story only revolves around Sakuragi being an idiot and not knowing a single thing about basketball, and a 25-30 chapter boring fist fight between the team and some 3rd rate punks. So imo basically 1/4 of the manga is already really bad and wasted. Then, even if the characters are pretty entertaining and they certainly fill their roles pretty well, they don't have character development or anything close to what they should have. Only Sakuragi has really important character development and even with him it feels like there could have been much more to actually be explored. The only other guy that perhaps had a character arc was Mitsui and even that felt pretty rushed. The rest of the cast, even though they are pretty good characters, had only what felt like the start of an interesting character arc or had no arc at all. Finally, the end of the story. The final match against Sannoh is one of the greatest things I've ever read, but the aftermath is just striaght up bad. We have no follow ups, Sakuragi is left on the shadows and 'rushed' would be an understatement.
Of course Haikyuu has some problems of its own, but I would actually say that as a story Haikyuu is much better structured. It feels like Furudate saw all these shortcomings that I already mentioned and 'consciously' improved on them. We get volleyball from day one, no weird tangents, no weird fist fights, straight up character interactions and actual practice matches. Haikyuu has an insanely big cast with a plethora of developments and arcs from basically every team and every important character. We have several backstories, practice camps and improvements from players from all over the vast cast of the show. To name a few: Hinata, Tsukishima, Oikawa, Daichi, Asahi, Kenma, Nishinoya, Tanaka, etc. Every character has an important character arc, great developments inside of matches and is very fleshed out throughout the manga. Finally, the ending. After Kamomedai's match we have 30+ chapters of aftermath, where we basically have all of the payoff of the story as a whole. No rushed endings, nothing left in the dark, just straight up a really cohesive and planned out ending to the story, respecting every character and every plot point.
My point is that when you finish reading Slam Dunk, imo of course, you feel like it could have been much more, something that doesn't really happen with Haikyuu. The ending of Slam Dunk felt like if Haikyuu ended after the Shiratorizawa match. Just when things were going perfectly and the story felt like it hit its stride, it just ends. You feel that characters were left half-finished. There could have been so much more to explore with Sakuragi, Rukawa, Akagi, Mitsui and the rest of the crew. And that is my "it would have been better with 100+ more chapters" argument. The bad start wouldn't have been so damaging, the characters could have been more fleshed out and the story wouldn't have had such a rushed and unexpected ending had it simply been longer.
Well, that basically summarizes my thoughts at the very least. It is a pretty long yapping session but I had to say everything.
"Those words are meant for those that dare defy god's final warning... An epigraph of their stubbornness"
- Maho Hiyajo (Steins;Gate 0)
Apr 7, 6:59 AM
#2
Offline
Mar 2019
11
DarkFirefly72 said:
I actually uploaded this in the general anime discussion forums but since I think basically nobody is going to reply there I'm putting it here as well XD.
PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE COMMENTING. I don't mean that Haikyuu is inherently better than Slam Dunk because of what I'm going to try to convey in this thread (as both mangas are incredible), it was just an interesting thing to think about and I was curious if anyone else had thought about this before. I have both mangas rated as a 9 for anyone wondering so this is not a slander in any way.
A couple of years ago I watched Haikyuu until the Inarizaki match and later read the rest of the manga. Of course I always heard about how legendary Slam Dunk is but I never really got to reading it until recently. While reading it I naturally noticed all of the similarities between both stories (as I would presume Haikyuu was greatly influenced by Slam Dunk) and it was a great read. But after finishing it I actually had some complaints about the story as a whole that I discussed with some of my friends and a thought came to me: Haikyuu actually solves all of Slam Dunk's big problems.

SPOILERS AHEAD (in any case XD)

The complaints I have regarding Slam Dunk are basically 3 big problems that I have with the story: the first 70-ish chapters (of 276 total chapters, so it is a pretty big part), the lack of more character development for basically every important character and the ending of the story. The 3 points would be basically fixed if the manga had 100 more chapters, but I will get to that later.
Now, starting about the complaints, there is practically no basketball until you get to chapter 75 (or smth like that) and before that the story only revolves around Sakuragi being an idiot and not knowing a single thing about basketball, and a 25-30 chapter boring fist fight between the team and some 3rd rate punks. So imo basically 1/4 of the manga is already really bad and wasted. Then, even if the characters are pretty entertaining and they certainly fill their roles pretty well, they don't have character development or anything close to what they should have. Only Sakuragi has really important character development and even with him it feels like there could have been much more to actually be explored. The only other guy that perhaps had a character arc was Mitsui and even that felt pretty rushed. The rest of the cast, even though they are pretty good characters, had only what felt like the start of an interesting character arc or had no arc at all. Finally, the end of the story. The final match against Sannoh is one of the greatest things I've ever read, but the aftermath is just striaght up bad. We have no follow ups, Sakuragi is left on the shadows and 'rushed' would be an understatement.
Of course Haikyuu has some problems of its own, but I would actually say that as a story Haikyuu is much better structured. It feels like Furudate saw all these shortcomings that I already mentioned and 'consciously' improved on them. We get volleyball from day one, no weird tangents, no weird fist fights, straight up character interactions and actual practice matches. Haikyuu has an insanely big cast with a plethora of developments and arcs from basically every team and every important character. We have several backstories, practice camps and improvements from players from all over the vast cast of the show. To name a few: Hinata, Tsukishima, Oikawa, Daichi, Asahi, Kenma, Nishinoya, Tanaka, etc. Every character has an important character arc, great developments inside of matches and is very fleshed out throughout the manga. Finally, the ending. After Kamomedai's match we have 30+ chapters of aftermath, where we basically have all of the payoff of the story as a whole. No rushed endings, nothing left in the dark, just straight up a really cohesive and planned out ending to the story, respecting every character and every plot point.
My point is that when you finish reading Slam Dunk, imo of course, you feel like it could have been much more, something that doesn't really happen with Haikyuu. The ending of Slam Dunk felt like if Haikyuu ended after the Shiratorizawa match. Just when things were going perfectly and the story felt like it hit its stride, it just ends. You feel that characters were left half-finished. There could have been so much more to explore with Sakuragi, Rukawa, Akagi, Mitsui and the rest of the crew. And that is my "it would have been better with 100+ more chapters" argument. The bad start wouldn't have been so damaging, the characters could have been more fleshed out and the story wouldn't have had such a rushed and unexpected ending had it simply been longer.
Well, that basically summarizes my thoughts at the very least. It is a pretty long yapping session but I had to say everything.

I understand that. I also watched/read Haikyuu before Slam Dunk and the similarities are pretty clear when you compare them, even the story arcs. BUT I will defend Slam Dunk 'cause we had a match in the 30s chapters (just like Haikyuu), before the fight between that delinquents, and after that arc, the matches, the characters and their relationships improve a lot, though Rukawa never had a real background story and Miyagi had one only in the movie, but the story never was about the background, but the character's growth as a team in Shohoku, especially Sakuragi's growth.

Having said all that, yes, Haikyuu had a better pay off in the end, but that was only because the story had reasons for it. Slam Dunk had its most important match at the end, and Haikyuu always tried to build something more, but I love both ends and their quirks.
Apr 7, 7:10 AM
#3
Offline
Dec 2018
94
I only watched haikyuu until the end of the shiratorizawa arc, so I won’t comment on the quality or depth of the manga or anime (although I wasn’t a big fan and didn’t think it was particularly interesting or stand-out).

Regardless, Slam Dunk is a very realistic and grounded story. Does it extensively flesh out every single character? No, but it doesn’t really need to, since the story is focused on Sakuragi. However, each main character is given enough story time to make them interesting, endearing, and help the reader understand exactly who they are. For example, Mitsui re-discovers his love for basketball, Ryota overcomes his insecurity and grows into more of a leader, Rukawa learns patience, to trust and believe in his teammates and share the load, and Akagi softens up, and becomes even moreso the pillar of the team.

The first arc of the story doesn’t dip heavily into basketball because Sakuragi knows nothing about basketball. Would you expect a newcomer to the game to become a starting player right off the bat? No, because they wouldn’t be good enough, they would have to learn all the basics. Again, the story is a realistic one, so this would be the case. Sakuragi needs to learn, and we get to see his love for basketball grow and blossom as he learns more, and develops better more intimate relationships and bonds with his teams.

Adding to this idea of realism, this story takes place over 1 year in real time. A lot happens in that span, but not too much that would make it obscene or unreasonable. In that time, the characters grow, learn, and pick up skills in their own way. If you feel it’s a slow burn, it’s because learning new things, bonding with a new team and developing new skills takes a looong time. It’s a slower build up, for a big payoff.

Since it’s just one year of story, it’s just a snapshot of the characters’ lives. We don’t get closure, because they wouldn’t get closure in real life. Their stories are not over, we just don’t get to see the rest.

The ending (at least I don’t think) wasn’t rushed. Sakuragi’s (the heart of the team) injury made him unable to play. Losing one of your core players, and facing the best team in the country, would be a recipe for overwhelming defeat. Therefore, we don’t need to see that game, we already know what the outcome would be.

Each character grows, has their own arc, and it culminates in the end of the story, where they all get payoff. Their payoff is the Sannoh game. What happens after that is just the natural conclusion. Their stories are not over. I don’t personally see any issues with the ending.

Not saying the story doesn’t have flaws. More could have been done, sure, but I don’t think any more chapters needed to be added, certainly not 100. We already know that in the future, rukawa and Sakuragi will lead the team as 2 aces. And we can imagine, from all the character development throughout the story, how each of the characters’ future stories will play out.

Would love to discuss more w u! Pm me if ur interested.
Apr 7, 9:07 AM
#4

Offline
Dec 2020
1353
Reply to PinesDevoker
DarkFirefly72 said:
I actually uploaded this in the general anime discussion forums but since I think basically nobody is going to reply there I'm putting it here as well XD.
PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE COMMENTING. I don't mean that Haikyuu is inherently better than Slam Dunk because of what I'm going to try to convey in this thread (as both mangas are incredible), it was just an interesting thing to think about and I was curious if anyone else had thought about this before. I have both mangas rated as a 9 for anyone wondering so this is not a slander in any way.
A couple of years ago I watched Haikyuu until the Inarizaki match and later read the rest of the manga. Of course I always heard about how legendary Slam Dunk is but I never really got to reading it until recently. While reading it I naturally noticed all of the similarities between both stories (as I would presume Haikyuu was greatly influenced by Slam Dunk) and it was a great read. But after finishing it I actually had some complaints about the story as a whole that I discussed with some of my friends and a thought came to me: Haikyuu actually solves all of Slam Dunk's big problems.

SPOILERS AHEAD (in any case XD)

The complaints I have regarding Slam Dunk are basically 3 big problems that I have with the story: the first 70-ish chapters (of 276 total chapters, so it is a pretty big part), the lack of more character development for basically every important character and the ending of the story. The 3 points would be basically fixed if the manga had 100 more chapters, but I will get to that later.
Now, starting about the complaints, there is practically no basketball until you get to chapter 75 (or smth like that) and before that the story only revolves around Sakuragi being an idiot and not knowing a single thing about basketball, and a 25-30 chapter boring fist fight between the team and some 3rd rate punks. So imo basically 1/4 of the manga is already really bad and wasted. Then, even if the characters are pretty entertaining and they certainly fill their roles pretty well, they don't have character development or anything close to what they should have. Only Sakuragi has really important character development and even with him it feels like there could have been much more to actually be explored. The only other guy that perhaps had a character arc was Mitsui and even that felt pretty rushed. The rest of the cast, even though they are pretty good characters, had only what felt like the start of an interesting character arc or had no arc at all. Finally, the end of the story. The final match against Sannoh is one of the greatest things I've ever read, but the aftermath is just striaght up bad. We have no follow ups, Sakuragi is left on the shadows and 'rushed' would be an understatement.
Of course Haikyuu has some problems of its own, but I would actually say that as a story Haikyuu is much better structured. It feels like Furudate saw all these shortcomings that I already mentioned and 'consciously' improved on them. We get volleyball from day one, no weird tangents, no weird fist fights, straight up character interactions and actual practice matches. Haikyuu has an insanely big cast with a plethora of developments and arcs from basically every team and every important character. We have several backstories, practice camps and improvements from players from all over the vast cast of the show. To name a few: Hinata, Tsukishima, Oikawa, Daichi, Asahi, Kenma, Nishinoya, Tanaka, etc. Every character has an important character arc, great developments inside of matches and is very fleshed out throughout the manga. Finally, the ending. After Kamomedai's match we have 30+ chapters of aftermath, where we basically have all of the payoff of the story as a whole. No rushed endings, nothing left in the dark, just straight up a really cohesive and planned out ending to the story, respecting every character and every plot point.
My point is that when you finish reading Slam Dunk, imo of course, you feel like it could have been much more, something that doesn't really happen with Haikyuu. The ending of Slam Dunk felt like if Haikyuu ended after the Shiratorizawa match. Just when things were going perfectly and the story felt like it hit its stride, it just ends. You feel that characters were left half-finished. There could have been so much more to explore with Sakuragi, Rukawa, Akagi, Mitsui and the rest of the crew. And that is my "it would have been better with 100+ more chapters" argument. The bad start wouldn't have been so damaging, the characters could have been more fleshed out and the story wouldn't have had such a rushed and unexpected ending had it simply been longer.
Well, that basically summarizes my thoughts at the very least. It is a pretty long yapping session but I had to say everything.

I understand that. I also watched/read Haikyuu before Slam Dunk and the similarities are pretty clear when you compare them, even the story arcs. BUT I will defend Slam Dunk 'cause we had a match in the 30s chapters (just like Haikyuu), before the fight between that delinquents, and after that arc, the matches, the characters and their relationships improve a lot, though Rukawa never had a real background story and Miyagi had one only in the movie, but the story never was about the background, but the character's growth as a team in Shohoku, especially Sakuragi's growth.

Having said all that, yes, Haikyuu had a better pay off in the end, but that was only because the story had reasons for it. Slam Dunk had its most important match at the end, and Haikyuu always tried to build something more, but I love both ends and their quirks.
PinesDevoker said:
but the story never was about the background, but the character's growth as a team in Shohoku
Yes, maybe it appeared that I focused too much on backgrounds in my expanation. I didn't mean that "Slam Dunk" is lackluster in that aspect, but rather that even though the characters themselves are pretty good (because I like every one of them) I felt that their growth simply was cut short. Having said all that Slam Dunk is incredible and even though I would probably pick Haikyuu is you asked me which one I "like more", they are both amazing stories.
"Those words are meant for those that dare defy god's final warning... An epigraph of their stubbornness"
- Maho Hiyajo (Steins;Gate 0)
Apr 11, 11:01 AM
#5
Offline
Dec 2020
1
what a horrible opinion. if anything, haikyuu, as much as I love it, is very obviously based on several ideas directly copied from Slam dunk, except they're done horribly since they're aimed at women and younger audiences. slam dunk is very realistic and fleshed out in every aspect. although the ending was unsatisfying, I'd say it's the closest thing towards perfection amongst every fictional media in existence.
Apr 11, 12:06 PM
#6

Offline
Dec 2020
1353
Reply to GyroZ2A
what a horrible opinion. if anything, haikyuu, as much as I love it, is very obviously based on several ideas directly copied from Slam dunk, except they're done horribly since they're aimed at women and younger audiences. slam dunk is very realistic and fleshed out in every aspect. although the ending was unsatisfying, I'd say it's the closest thing towards perfection amongst every fictional media in existence.
GyroZ2A said:
except they're done horribly since they're aimed at women and younger audiences.
I mean, you say my opinion is horrible but this is straight up sexism XD. And I never said that Slam Dunk was bad, it is a great manga, and I literally said that Haikyuu takes a lot of ideas from it, that is basically the point of the forum. But rather than actually stating arguments and start a discussion (like other people have) you just say stupid shit and attack me. Steins;Gate is the closest thing to perfection for me and I can easily discuss about it, about its flaws and about its greatest parts.
"Those words are meant for those that dare defy god's final warning... An epigraph of their stubbornness"
- Maho Hiyajo (Steins;Gate 0)

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It’s time to ditch the text file.
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