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Aug 9, 6:54 PM
#1
At the moment I’m watching the series in release order & so far ngl I’m really enjoying it, I wanted to ask you guys once completing this series is it recommended/good to watch the series again in chronological order? |
Aug 9, 8:41 PM
#2
you should watch it again to fully understand what is happening in the story |
Aug 9, 8:43 PM
#3
Aug 9, 8:58 PM
#4
I think its a good idea, I did the same thing back in the day. |
Aug 9, 10:04 PM
#5
No. or yes. I understood it so I didn't. others didn't so they watched again. that's pretty much it |
Aug 9, 10:41 PM
#6
NotoriousAkh said: I wanted to ask you guys once completing this series is it recommended/good to watch the series again in chronological order? Good; yeah. Recommended; it depends if you understood the story of not, especially as there is the Remix (chronological recap of Movies 1-6, teaser for Movie 7). I'd personally recommend to re-watch Movie 1 at some point tho, as i believe a lot of people did not liked it much because of how confused they were at that time. |
"Genius lives only one storey above madness." – Arthur Schopenhauer. "Stupidity is a talent for misconception." – Edgar Allan Poe. "I'm tired... and hungry." – Alexioos95. |
Aug 10, 1:24 AM
#7
It just depends on your preference or if you understood everything that happened. Personally I watched it in release and understood everything that had happened, so I didn’t rewatch in chronological order because I felt like it would ruin my experience that I had enjoyed with release order. |
Aug 10, 7:51 AM
#8
NotoriousAkh said: At the moment I’m watching the series in release order & so far ngl I’m really enjoying it, I wanted to ask you guys once completing this series is it recommended/good to watch the series again in chronological order? Watch it in chronological order, release order literally makes no sense and is very confusing. |
Aug 10, 8:10 AM
#10
filthyfrank8142 said: release order literally makes no sense and is very confusing. Uh, it does make sense, and the confusion is done on purpose... I really don't get why would someone watch a show in a "chronological order", when the Author literally did not want that. All you are doing is trashing his intents, and downplaying his storytelling. It's especially true for series which goes back and forth multiple times in the timeline, which is done to add a layer to suspense, mystery, and impact on the reveals, on top of artificially complexifying the plotlines. It's even worse for Kara no Kyoukai, as you literally can't escape the time jump in Movies 5 (!) & 7 (and Mirai Fukuin & Extra Chorus), anyway... Just the idea of watching something in a chronological order is crazy, in reality. Do you really imagine yourself doing so for a series like Shingeki no Kyojin, for example ? It would not be the same story (and quality) at all... |
"Genius lives only one storey above madness." – Arthur Schopenhauer. "Stupidity is a talent for misconception." – Edgar Allan Poe. "I'm tired... and hungry." – Alexioos95. |
Aug 10, 8:27 AM
#11
Alexioos95 said: filthyfrank8142 said: release order literally makes no sense and is very confusing. Uh, it does make sense, and the confusion is done on purpose... I really don't get why would someone watch a show in a "chronological order", when the Author literally did not want that. All you are doing is trashing his intents, and downplaying his storytelling. It's especially true for series which goes back and forth multiple times in the timeline, which is done to add a layer to suspense, mystery, and impact on the reveals, on top of artificially complexifying the plotlines. It's even worse for Kara no Kyoukai, as you literally can't escape the time jump in Movies 5 (!) & 7 (and Mirai Fukuin & Extra Chorus), anyway... Just the idea of watching something in a chronological order is crazy, in reality. Do you really imagine yourself doing so for a series like Shingeki no Kyojin, for example ? It would not be the same story (and quality) at all... Bro there’s no way u would watch the first 2 movies and tell me whatever happened to shiki at the end of the first movie and see her in hs in the 2nd movie and tell me oh yea it makes sense when it doesn’t. Also I’m not trashing at the author, I like kara no Kyoukai, but I’m just tired seeing ppl recommending to watch it in release order when it’s confusing and might make ppl not watch the series. That’s why knk never received the popularity that it got. |
Aug 10, 8:54 AM
#12
filthyfrank8142 said: Bro there’s no way u would watch the first 2 movies and tell me whatever happened to shiki at the end of the first movie and see her in hs in the 2nd movie and tell me oh yea it makes sense when it doesn’t. There is nothing peculiar to decrypt about her at the end of Movie 1, and Movie 2 is made clear to be a Prequel; through the date displayed, and the younger appearance of the characters. The time jump confuses the reader/viewer, and make him think about the reasons of it, but that's all, there is nothing that does not make sense. It's even more true if talking about storytelling; Movie 1 is here to showcase the type of story it'll be; a dark, oppressive and horror-ish urban supernatural thriller, with a bit of psychology and action on top. It also shows how the characters are, but without presenting them; it's only letting you see a glimpse of them. And then comes Movie 2, which actually does present the 2 main characters, and build them, while also establishing their connection and root. Of course, it's confusing; it's a very weird and uncommon way to tell a story, and as a watcher, you are not sure about what really happened, and what was they trying to tell you, but it's also pretty good, and is very highly interesting for people who likes mysteries. filthyfrank8142 said: Also I’m not trashing at the author, I like kara no Kyoukai That's not what comes out of your post, from my point of view. The disjunctive storytelling is what makes Kara no Kyoukai so special and loved (on top of the characterization of Shiki, which is hugely impactful because of this exactly non-linear storytelling). But it's a fact that you are not respecting the work as it is by trying to change the orders of things. filthyfrank8142 said: but I’m just tired seeing ppl recommending to watch it in release order when it’s confusing and might make ppl not watch the series. That’s why knk never received the popularity that it got. Not all series are made to be liked by everyone. Each work has a specific target; they must be sold to them, and if they sell to someone else too, then that's good. The confusion is done on purpose, and there is a lot of people (like me), who loves that; who loves to have to think a lot about what is (actually) happening despite the Author putting spokes in the wheels. If someone does not like that, then he does not. Trying to twist the story so that it appeal to more people is a damn crazy thing to do, and is highly disheartening as an Author... |
Alexioos95Aug 10, 8:58 AM
"Genius lives only one storey above madness." – Arthur Schopenhauer. "Stupidity is a talent for misconception." – Edgar Allan Poe. "I'm tired... and hungry." – Alexioos95. |
Aug 10, 12:35 PM
#13
Reply to Alexioos95
filthyfrank8142 said:
Bro there’s no way u would watch the first 2 movies and tell me whatever happened to shiki at the end of the first movie and see her in hs in the 2nd movie and tell me oh yea it makes sense when it doesn’t.
Bro there’s no way u would watch the first 2 movies and tell me whatever happened to shiki at the end of the first movie and see her in hs in the 2nd movie and tell me oh yea it makes sense when it doesn’t.
There is nothing peculiar to decrypt about her at the end of Movie 1, and Movie 2 is made clear to be a Prequel; through the date displayed, and the younger appearance of the characters. The time jump confuses the reader/viewer, and make him think about the reasons of it, but that's all, there is nothing that does not make sense.
It's even more true if talking about storytelling; Movie 1 is here to showcase the type of story it'll be; a dark, oppressive and horror-ish urban supernatural thriller, with a bit of psychology and action on top. It also shows how the characters are, but without presenting them; it's only letting you see a glimpse of them. And then comes Movie 2, which actually does present the 2 main characters, and build them, while also establishing their connection and root.
Of course, it's confusing; it's a very weird and uncommon way to tell a story, and as a watcher, you are not sure about what really happened, and what was they trying to tell you, but it's also pretty good, and is very highly interesting for people who likes mysteries.
filthyfrank8142 said:
Also I’m not trashing at the author, I like kara no Kyoukai
Also I’m not trashing at the author, I like kara no Kyoukai
That's not what comes out of your post, from my point of view. The disjunctive storytelling is what makes Kara no Kyoukai so special and loved (on top of the characterization of Shiki, which is hugely impactful because of this exactly non-linear storytelling). But it's a fact that you are not respecting the work as it is by trying to change the orders of things.
filthyfrank8142 said:
but I’m just tired seeing ppl recommending to watch it in release order when it’s confusing and might make ppl not watch the series. That’s why knk never received the popularity that it got.
but I’m just tired seeing ppl recommending to watch it in release order when it’s confusing and might make ppl not watch the series. That’s why knk never received the popularity that it got.
Not all series are made to be liked by everyone. Each work has a specific target; they must be sold to them, and if they sell to someone else too, then that's good. The confusion is done on purpose, and there is a lot of people (like me), who loves that; who loves to have to think a lot about what is (actually) happening despite the Author putting spokes in the wheels. If someone does not like that, then he does not. Trying to twist the story so that it appeal to more people is a damn crazy thing to do, and is highly disheartening as an Author...
@Alexioos95 but like u said there are ppl that like the way how u watched it and there are ppl who enjoyed it the way how they felt the most comfortable watching it (chronologically). also, it's not crazy to recommend the average viewer to watch it in chronological order where they can understand the story, the average viewer isn't going to care what the author's intentions are (that's only for elitist/reviewers) and it's good bc it will make more ppl watch it. it sounds almost like if ur gatekeeping this anime. I'm sure if the average viewer were to watch this in release order they would be confused and finish the series and realize that all these events are mixed up and will most likely end up watching it again but in chronological order. I get ur point and im not saying that ur wrong, but my point is that the average viewer isn't going to care about that. |
Aug 10, 1:11 PM
#14
filthyfrank8142 said: but like u said there are ppl that like the way how u watched it and there are ppl who enjoyed it the way how they felt the most comfortable watching it (chronologically). Oh sure, i don't deny it, but i question the relevance of changing the orders of things to "simplify" a story. filthyfrank8142 said: also, it's not crazy to recommend the average viewer to watch it in chronological order where they can understand the story, Of course it is... You are quite literally saying "I can't follow the story, but by changing that here and there, i do and like it". The fact that you do not realize how crazy it is is quite mindblowing, to be honest. And mind you, we're not talking about a 200 IQ enigma there, if the average viewer makes a minimum of effort, and actually tries to think about the story and pay attention, they can easily understand everything. filthyfrank8142 said: the average viewer isn't going to care what the author's intentions are (that's only for elitist/reviewers) and it's good bc it will make more ppl watch it. it sounds almost like if ur gatekeeping this anime. You lost me there. What's understanding a media doing to do with elitism, reviewers, and gatekeeping ? What's the point of watching a story if you do not understand what the Author is trying to tell through it ? (If there is something to understand to begin with, which is why Isekais are so hated, for example.) filthyfrank8142 said: I'm sure if the average viewer were to watch this in release order they would be confused and finish the series and realize that all these events are mixed up and will most likely end up watching it again but in chronological order. And that's great; this is quite exactly what the Author want them to feel. Most of these average viewers will probably drop it way before finishing it, and that's not a bad thing, it's just that it was not something that appealed to them; it was not meant for them. filthyfrank8142 said: I get ur point and im not saying that ur wrong, but my point is that the average viewer isn't going to care about that. From my end, i also got what you are saying, but that's not something acceptable. For some reason, everyone i've talked to tries to pass off chronological orders as valid, but only on series cut into several entries. With the same reasoning of chronological order and story simplification, we could totally start Shingeki no Kyojin with the basement's reveals and the flashback, or Naruto with the story of the Chakra with the Utsutsuki. That would greatly simplify the story that happens after too... but that would also completely change the story told by the Author, and ruins many things (especially for Shingeki no Kyojin, which is an heavy mystery-based story), and they do not realize that it does the same thing to stories such as Kara no Kyoukai. The Fate/Series also has the same problem, with Zero. Edit; TLDR : They can follow some chronological order if they want to, but that's not something that should be encouraged. Sure, you can enjoy the story like that, but you also can by watching without sounds, colors, from the end to the beginning, in 2x speed, so on and so forth. That doesn't makes it more recommended. |
Alexioos95Aug 10, 1:24 PM
"Genius lives only one storey above madness." – Arthur Schopenhauer. "Stupidity is a talent for misconception." – Edgar Allan Poe. "I'm tired... and hungry." – Alexioos95. |
Aug 10, 2:00 PM
#15
Reply to Alexioos95
filthyfrank8142 said:
but like u said there are ppl that like the way how u watched it and there are ppl who enjoyed it the way how they felt the most comfortable watching it (chronologically).
but like u said there are ppl that like the way how u watched it and there are ppl who enjoyed it the way how they felt the most comfortable watching it (chronologically).
Oh sure, i don't deny it, but i question the relevance of changing the orders of things to "simplify" a story.
filthyfrank8142 said:
also, it's not crazy to recommend the average viewer to watch it in chronological order where they can understand the story,
also, it's not crazy to recommend the average viewer to watch it in chronological order where they can understand the story,
Of course it is...
You are quite literally saying "I can't follow the story, but by changing that here and there, i do and like it". The fact that you do not realize how crazy it is is quite mindblowing, to be honest.
And mind you, we're not talking about a 200 IQ enigma there, if the average viewer makes a minimum of effort, and actually tries to think about the story and pay attention, they can easily understand everything.
filthyfrank8142 said:
the average viewer isn't going to care what the author's intentions are (that's only for elitist/reviewers) and it's good bc it will make more ppl watch it. it sounds almost like if ur gatekeeping this anime.
the average viewer isn't going to care what the author's intentions are (that's only for elitist/reviewers) and it's good bc it will make more ppl watch it. it sounds almost like if ur gatekeeping this anime.
You lost me there.
What's understanding a media doing to do with elitism, reviewers, and gatekeeping ? What's the point of watching a story if you do not understand what the Author is trying to tell through it ? (If there is something to understand to begin with, which is why Isekais are so hated, for example.)
filthyfrank8142 said:
I'm sure if the average viewer were to watch this in release order they would be confused and finish the series and realize that all these events are mixed up and will most likely end up watching it again but in chronological order.
I'm sure if the average viewer were to watch this in release order they would be confused and finish the series and realize that all these events are mixed up and will most likely end up watching it again but in chronological order.
And that's great; this is quite exactly what the Author want them to feel. Most of these average viewers will probably drop it way before finishing it, and that's not a bad thing, it's just that it was not something that appealed to them; it was not meant for them.
filthyfrank8142 said:
I get ur point and im not saying that ur wrong, but my point is that the average viewer isn't going to care about that.
I get ur point and im not saying that ur wrong, but my point is that the average viewer isn't going to care about that.
From my end, i also got what you are saying, but that's not something acceptable.
For some reason, everyone i've talked to tries to pass off chronological orders as valid, but only on series cut into several entries. With the same reasoning of chronological order and story simplification, we could totally start Shingeki no Kyojin with the basement's reveals and the flashback, or Naruto with the story of the Chakra with the Utsutsuki. That would greatly simplify the story that happens after too... but that would also completely change the story told by the Author, and ruins many things (especially for Shingeki no Kyojin, which is an heavy mystery-based story), and they do not realize that it does the same thing to stories such as Kara no Kyoukai. The Fate/Series also has the same problem, with Zero.
Edit; TLDR : They can follow some chronological order if they want to, but that's not something that should be encouraged. Sure, you can enjoy the story like that, but you also can by watching without sounds, colors, from the end to the beginning, in 2x speed, so on and so forth. That doesn't makes it more recommended.
@Alexioos95 "What's understanding a media doing to do with elitism, reviewers, and gatekeeping ? What's the point of watching a story if you do not understand what the Author is trying to tell through it ?" Nothing really but that's not the point that I was trying to make, it's just the fact that ur saying it's supposed to be watched this way bc the author made it to be that way and it's almost comparable as to reading a book, ppl who watch shows (the average viewer) doesn't care about that (in other words they're braindead) also " What's the point of watching a story if you do not understand what the Author is trying to tell through it ?" is the same question that the average viewer is going to make. "And that's great; this is quite exactly what the Author want them to feel. Most of these average viewers will probably drop it way before finishing it, and that's not a bad thing, it's just that it was not something that appealed to them; it was not meant for them." it is a bad thing bc that's where ppl spread misinformation and lies about the series and the series ends up having negative reviews and makes the score lower. |
Aug 10, 2:12 PM
#16
filthyfrank8142 said: it is a bad thing bc that's where ppl spread misinformation and lies about the series Like what ? It is true that the series is confusing, and that is not the more straightforward story ever. Never saw any misinformation or lies about it. filthyfrank8142 said: and the series ends up having negative reviews and makes the score lower. Uh, so... ? The reviews and the score are merely an indicator of what the viewers thought about the work; a general representation, that's all. A story that is so specific, so uncommon and weird as Kara no Kyoukai can not be loved by the majority, it is absolutely impossible. Mind you that you are also talking about only a small percentage of users of the site (those who watched the series), which itself is only a (very) small percentage of Animes consumers in the world. The reviews and score on MAL are not important at all. |
"Genius lives only one storey above madness." – Arthur Schopenhauer. "Stupidity is a talent for misconception." – Edgar Allan Poe. "I'm tired... and hungry." – Alexioos95. |
Aug 10, 2:22 PM
#17
Reply to Alexioos95
filthyfrank8142 said:
it is a bad thing bc that's where ppl spread misinformation and lies about the series
it is a bad thing bc that's where ppl spread misinformation and lies about the series
Like what ? It is true that the series is confusing, and that is not the more straightforward story ever. Never saw any misinformation or lies about it.
filthyfrank8142 said:
and the series ends up having negative reviews and makes the score lower.
and the series ends up having negative reviews and makes the score lower.
Uh, so... ? The reviews and the score are merely an indicator of what the viewers thought about the work; a general representation, that's all. A story that is so specific, so uncommon and weird as Kara no Kyoukai can not be loved by the majority, it is absolutely impossible.
Mind you that you are also talking about only a small percentage of users of the site (those who watched the series), which itself is only a (very) small percentage of Animes consumers in the world. The reviews and score on MAL are not important at all.
@Alexioos95 that's bc u never bothered spending time looking at the bs reviews, maybe if u did that u would get what I'm talking about, MAL isn't the only website to review anime yk. also yes ur right about that scores don't matter, at least for me, but u need to understand that there's genuinely ppl that actually do care about that, as stupid as it sounds. |
Aug 10, 10:56 PM
#18
filthyfrank8142 said: that's bc u never bothered spending time looking at the bs reviews, maybe if u did that u would get what I'm talking about, MAL isn't the only website to review anime yk. There is bad reviews, made by people looking for attention, on absolutely every entry. Did you took a look at Berserk's or Sousou no Frieren's ? And that's despite them being the highest entries for the 2 category... And the few negative reviews i've seen were not totally wrong, each Movies is heavily lackluster on some point, because they are meant to be taken as a whole. There is also very good reviews too, especially the ones by Archaeon. Like, heck, this very Movie has 8 positive, 1 mixed and 0 negative reviews, and are pinpointing the good aspects of the Movie. filthyfrank8142 said: also yes ur right about that scores don't matter, at least for me, but u need to understand that there's genuinely ppl that actually do care about that, as stupid as it sounds. That's a mentality problem that goes way further than just Kara no Kyoukai. But i don't get your point there, why should it matters; what's the relation with recommending a chronological order ? At worst, these people won't try to watch the Movies (the 5 and 7 are high rated tho), or watch them and end up not liking it, and who cares; as i said above, Kara no Kyoukai is not the type of work that can be incredibly worldwide popular and well liked, and that's ok. You are trying to infantilize them; "They are too stupid to follow the series, so let's simplify it so they like it too"... Are you actually telling me you are doing the same thing for other series ? Recommending Shingeki no Kyojin or Naruto in chronological order, because they are too "hard to understand" ? Dunno what you are thinking about, but reading your posts looks like you want everyone to watch and love the Movies, even if they have to butcher Author's intents... What's the point ? To be honest, it looks like you are the very "average viewer" and obsessed with ratings you are trying to describe... |
Alexioos95Aug 10, 11:14 PM
"Genius lives only one storey above madness." – Arthur Schopenhauer. "Stupidity is a talent for misconception." – Edgar Allan Poe. "I'm tired... and hungry." – Alexioos95. |
Aug 11, 7:39 AM
#19
Alexioos95 said: filthyfrank8142 said: that's bc u never bothered spending time looking at the bs reviews, maybe if u did that u would get what I'm talking about, MAL isn't the only website to review anime yk. There is bad reviews, made by people looking for attention, on absolutely every entry. Did you took a look at Berserk's or Sousou no Frieren's ? And that's despite them being the highest entries for the 2 category... And the few negative reviews i've seen were not totally wrong, each Movies is heavily lackluster on some point, because they are meant to be taken as a whole. There is also very good reviews too, especially the ones by Archaeon. Like, heck, this very Movie has 8 positive, 1 mixed and 0 negative reviews, and are pinpointing the good aspects of the Movie. filthyfrank8142 said: also yes ur right about that scores don't matter, at least for me, but u need to understand that there's genuinely ppl that actually do care about that, as stupid as it sounds. That's a mentality problem that goes way further than just Kara no Kyoukai. But i don't get your point there, why should it matters; what's the relation with recommending a chronological order ? At worst, these people won't try to watch the Movies (the 5 and 7 are high rated tho), or watch them and end up not liking it, and who cares; as i said above, Kara no Kyoukai is not the type of work that can be incredibly worldwide popular and well liked, and that's ok. You are trying to infantilize them; "They are too stupid to follow the series, so let's simplify it so they like it too"... Are you actually telling me you are doing the same thing for other series ? Recommending Shingeki no Kyojin or Naruto in chronological order, because they are too "hard to understand" ? Dunno what you are thinking about, but reading your posts looks like you want everyone to watch and love the Movies, even if they have to butcher Author's intents... What's the point ? To be honest, it looks like you are the very "average viewer" and obsessed with ratings you are trying to describe... No just no, ur comparison on aot and naruto doesn't make any sense and its a horrible comparison bc ur talking about flashbacks. Only fate makes sense bc ppl complain if u start at fate zero or ubw and end up arguing. Knk is written differently, u could've compared it to something like monogatari and it would've made more sense. Idk if ur here still to argue, bc it doesn't even sound like ur trying to respect the fact that there's 2 ways that u can watch the show. It doesn't matter if ur recommending the show in what order, the only thing that matters is that ppl are watching it. Also idk why ur still dragging the argument, ur a nobody, the person is going to watch the way how they want to bc of the way how they feel, not bc someone told them. I was basically warning them that the series is confusing and they might not know whats going on, I'm not holding a gun to their head and forcing them to watch it this way. Also I'm not the average viewer, I watch more than just shounen. I watched parts (1-5) like 3 times 2 release order and 1 in chronological order. Like u said the average viewer would've dropped this. Anyway that's why I was saying that ur not wrong but neither are u right, so stop pretending to be right and trying to twist it as in I'm the problem bc there has been multiple times that you've done that. |
Aug 11, 8:14 AM
#20
filthyfrank8142 said: No just no, ur comparison on aot and naruto doesn't make any sense and its a horrible comparison bc ur talking about flashbacks. Only fate makes sense bc ppl complain if u start at fate zero or ubw and end up arguing. Knk is written differently, u could've compared it to something like monogatari and it would've made more sense. Like, a Prequel works the exact same way as a flashback. It's a "Prequel" because it's released as a Spin-Off rather than directly included in the work, otherwise it would be a "Flashback". Kara no Kyoukai's 2nd Movie is a Prequel to the 1st, but in the Light Novel, it's just the next chapter in the same book; it is a flashback of their highschool time. Same for Monogatari, Kizu is a Prequel to Bake; a flashback of what happened to Araragi at that time with Kiss-Shot. You just proved what i said above; for some reasons, people defend chronological orders for series released into multiple parts, but not for the rest, when it's exactly the same case... filthyfrank8142 said: Idk if ur here still to argue, bc it doesn't even sound like ur trying to respect the fact that there's 2 ways that u can watch the show. There is a 2nd way because you (people talking about chronological orders) are creating it. Do you actually believe it would be realistically good to recommend people to start a book at page 60, before going over at page 1 later, because it's chronological and "less complicate" like that... ? We can create a 3rd way if you want : Watch from Movie 7 to 1; because why not. filthyfrank8142 said: Also idk why ur still dragging the argument [...] so stop pretending to be right and trying to twist it as in I'm the problem bc there has been multiple times that you've done that. Sorry dude, but you keep writing outrageous things (and seems to lose yourself, like for these reviews things) while quoting me, just like what i answered to above... Fact is that i'm right, the damn Author wrote his story like that, and the Movies are even numbered (for a good reason). That's quite sad to see that some people do not even understand something as simple as that. Anyway, i guess this end this discussion. |
"Genius lives only one storey above madness." – Arthur Schopenhauer. "Stupidity is a talent for misconception." – Edgar Allan Poe. "I'm tired... and hungry." – Alexioos95. |
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