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Oct 10, 5:22 AM
#1
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Apr 2023
49
The original series wasn't exactly small potatoes. I'm saddened to see the dwindling number of users that have the sequels on their list. Seriously, only 234 (at the time of writing) users after the show has already started airing? That's beyond sad.

I get that the series has strayed even further from "realistic" tennis in this sequel, all the moves are just getting more ridiculous really, but to think there's so few people who watched the original series that have even tried the newer stuff is depressing.

It can't be because things have gotten more ridiculous, if that was the case there's a ton of hit anime that have retained their popularity or even gotten more popular after their internal logic became questionable or outright violated that one would expect to have died off quite quickly like this show.

And it's not like this show ever aspired to be a realistic portrayal of tennis in the first place - sure it's come a long way, but still, backwards-arm shots that injure the opponent's wrists/send their racket flying, zero-bounce drop shots, and around-the-post shots hit by a 13 something y/o? Come on now. The original anime never set itself any limits in the first place, so its evolution into something like this especially given how many other shounens have evolved isn't exactly unpredecented.

And it's not like the plot or general characters suck either, if anything I think the latter is the strongest point of this show.

So, what gives?
Oct 10, 5:41 AM
#2

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Oct 2011
9072
Vipadus said:
The original series wasn't exactly small potatoes. I'm saddened to see the dwindling number of users that have the sequels on their list. Seriously, only 234 (at the time of writing) users after the show has already started airing? That's beyond sad.

I get that the series has strayed even further from "realistic" tennis in this sequel, all the moves are just getting more ridiculous really, but to think there's so few people who watched the original series that have even tried the newer stuff is depressing.

It can't be because things have gotten more ridiculous, if that was the case there's a ton of hit anime that have retained their popularity or even gotten more popular after their internal logic became questionable or outright violated that one would expect to have died off quite quickly like this show.

And it's not like this show ever aspired to be a realistic portrayal of tennis in the first place - sure it's come a long way, but still, backwards-arm shots that injure the opponent's wrists/send their racket flying, zero-bounce drop shots, and around-the-post shots hit by a 13 something y/o? Come on now. The original anime never set itself any limits in the first place, so its evolution into something like this especially given how many other shounens have evolved isn't exactly unpredecented.

And it's not like the plot or general characters suck either, if anything I think the latter is the strongest point of this show.

So, what gives?

Fan here🤝

Agree . Not everyone has seen the original series/ National arc etc. so they’ll ignore the sequel.
Oct 10, 7:06 AM
#3
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May 2022
204
It’s because the writing and characters are terrible, no one wants to watch a series about a group of 12 to 17 year old narcissists with the personalities of supervillains.
Oct 10, 5:32 PM
#4
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Apr 2023
49
Reply to ajw215799
It’s because the writing and characters are terrible, no one wants to watch a series about a group of 12 to 17 year old narcissists with the personalities of supervillains.
@ajw215799 That's not the impression I got at all from this show, not the original nor the sequel, and like I said above if writing had anything to do with it Naruto and Bleach would've fallen off towards the end of their respective runs but the opposite happened for those series.

AnimeFan500 said:
Fan here🤝

Agree . Not everyone has seen the original series/ National arc etc. so they’ll ignore the sequel.

My brother got me into the original series, I see from the reviews some people are diving straight into this without having watched them which I think is a massive mistake.
VipadusOct 10, 5:40 PM
Oct 11, 7:36 AM
#5
Offline
Apr 2013
901
Combination of factors

1: The original aired in 2001. I highly doubt the zoomers are there.
Even myself, I've "only" watched about 120 eps, and to be honest I dont remember most of them.

2: There are so many eps is daunting.

3: Most of the fans are probably watching silently and/or not using animelist

4: Honestly the quality went downhill after the nationals. 2012, Genius 10, U17WC, its been really tough. 2012 was over 10 years ago as well.

5: Style choices. The anime is the anime.
What I mean is, even if you like tennis in real life, the anime is very different from real life tennis so it wont really translate/carry over very well.
So naturally this makes it kinda difficult for people who are expecting "realistic" tennis

6: Sequel syndrome. Sequels naturally have a falloff. Between all the factors, the nationals (24 eps), 2012 (12 eps), genius 10, and u17wc (12 eps)? Thats a LOT of eps.

(7): cast is basically entirely boys
Oct 11, 4:51 PM
#6
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Apr 2023
49
Reply to CocoaGalaxy
Combination of factors

1: The original aired in 2001. I highly doubt the zoomers are there.
Even myself, I've "only" watched about 120 eps, and to be honest I dont remember most of them.

2: There are so many eps is daunting.

3: Most of the fans are probably watching silently and/or not using animelist

4: Honestly the quality went downhill after the nationals. 2012, Genius 10, U17WC, its been really tough. 2012 was over 10 years ago as well.

5: Style choices. The anime is the anime.
What I mean is, even if you like tennis in real life, the anime is very different from real life tennis so it wont really translate/carry over very well.
So naturally this makes it kinda difficult for people who are expecting "realistic" tennis

6: Sequel syndrome. Sequels naturally have a falloff. Between all the factors, the nationals (24 eps), 2012 (12 eps), genius 10, and u17wc (12 eps)? Thats a LOT of eps.

(7): cast is basically entirely boys
@CocoaGalaxy As I said if quality was a factor so many anime like naruto and bleach would've fallen off but didn't. And I don't really think the new prince of tennis stuff is even much worse, or worse at all really. Sure it's more ridiculous and the battles are perhaps a bit more predictable but I quite like the plot and where they took it. I don't get why so many old fans think this is so much worse. It's not like the original series was amazing either, it had its moments and arcs sure but so does the new stuff IMO

boruto and the fullbring arc are a million times worse than anything in the new prince of tennis, but boruto and the stuff after fullbring is still very popular. i can't speak for tybw cause i haven't read manga and am waiting for the anime adaptation to complete. I know it's not too fair to compare such extremely popular series to a more modestly popular show but still the falloff in interest compared to those things is a little extreme.
VipadusOct 11, 4:56 PM
Oct 11, 9:52 PM
#7
Offline
Apr 2013
901
Reply to Vipadus
@CocoaGalaxy As I said if quality was a factor so many anime like naruto and bleach would've fallen off but didn't. And I don't really think the new prince of tennis stuff is even much worse, or worse at all really. Sure it's more ridiculous and the battles are perhaps a bit more predictable but I quite like the plot and where they took it. I don't get why so many old fans think this is so much worse. It's not like the original series was amazing either, it had its moments and arcs sure but so does the new stuff IMO

boruto and the fullbring arc are a million times worse than anything in the new prince of tennis, but boruto and the stuff after fullbring is still very popular. i can't speak for tybw cause i haven't read manga and am waiting for the anime adaptation to complete. I know it's not too fair to compare such extremely popular series to a more modestly popular show but still the falloff in interest compared to those things is a little extreme.
Aside from what I said previously

The best I can say is its a genre thing.

I think most people dont even know prince of tennis exists.

And the people that do, they either watched one episode and dont have time or am not interested

Its not really something that can be quantified in numbers


Individually its kinda soso really.

Usually the expectation is that the sequels are better, and while 2012 onwards might be "ok" its not necessarily better or even equal to nationals
Like I will say there are some ok/good moments, the thing is overall or something its debatable.

For 2012 for example, its not that bad. Its just a few silly moments. From what I recall, in the entire 12 episodes we only get 3 "full" matches, tezuka vs yamato, atobe vs irie, and ryoma vs migi, and even then its debatable how quality or iconic those matches are.

Genius 10 flipped it around and almost every episode has a match. The thing is most of the matches are just whatever now. nio and atobe doubles, I dont even remember most of the rest of them. Kintaro vs oni singles, sanada and akutsu doubles, the random one with kite, tokugawa vs byodoin singles, eh.

And then u17wc is really the sad one. Exhibition vs germany, fuji and duke doubles, then atobe gets wiped out, then tokugawa and yukimura vs volk.
The silly horse tennis. Greece loses 3 matches in one ep, then australia, then losing to swiss. and the rest of the episodes are france. Even ryoma vs prince is kinda meh and sanada wins singles offscreen.
CocoaGalaxyOct 11, 9:57 PM
Oct 11, 11:07 PM
#8
Offline
Apr 2023
49
CocoaGalaxy said:
The best I can say is its a genre thing.

I certainly get that many people aren't quite expecting the level of ridiculousness that PoT offers in relation to other sports anime, though I feel that would (and probably has) deterred a lot of viewers of the original show, even if it started off a lot more grounded than it eventually ended up becoming. That's partly why I said above it's a huge mistake for people to be jumping into this stuff without having watched the initial series first. Though I tend to like starting from the beginning anyway, I don't know why people just nosedive into a new season of a series without getting the context first...

CocoaGalaxy said:
I think most people dont even know prince of tennis exists.

Yeah, especially newer anime fans, like me for instance I only began watching in 2020, the only reason I know about it is because my brother who has watched far longer than me watched and liked PoT back in the day. Still, you'd expect even a modestly popular series to retain a little more popularity. I suppose one could argue that the most popular series are more prone to attracting the crazed fans who like basically everything they consume uncritically.

CocoaGalaxy said:
Usually the expectation is that the sequels are better, and while 2012 onwards might be "ok" its not necessarily better or even equal to nationals
Like I will say there are some ok/good moments, the thing is overall or something its debatable.

This is true, though in practice... sometimes they tend not to be :P It is certainly subjective to an extent though.

CocoaGalaxy said:
For 2012 for example, its not that bad. Its just a few silly moments. From what I recall, in the entire 12 episodes we only get 3 "full" matches, tezuka vs yamato, atobe vs irie, and ryoma vs migi, and even then its debatable how quality or iconic those matches are.

Agree, I might even find it on the whole better on average than the original series, although the original series did have higher peaks. I liked the whole part where "the losers" thought they were getting sent home but actually got sent to the rougher training camp and came back stronger, even if it was telegraphed pretty strongly that they weren't actually gonna leave.

CocoaGalaxy said:
Genius 10 flipped it around and almost every episode has a match. The thing is most of the matches are just whatever now. nio and atobe doubles, I dont even remember most of the rest of them. Kintaro vs oni singles, sanada and akutsu doubles, the random one with kite, tokugawa vs byodoin singles, eh.

I mean I don't remember a lot of the matches either, even from the previous series. I thought there were some cool ones, though maybe that was in 2012, but I tend to forget about them after some time unless they really stuck out. I liked it while I was watching it though.

CocoaGalaxy said:
And then u17wc is really the sad one. Exhibition vs germany, fuji and duke doubles, then atobe gets wiped out, then tokugawa and yukimura vs volk.
The silly horse tennis. Greece loses 3 matches in one ep, then australia, then losing to swiss. and the rest of the episodes are france. Even ryoma vs prince is kinda meh and sanada wins singles offscreen.

Ah, yes, the one where I share a pretty distinct opinion from most of MAL, apparently. TBF it's probably the worst out of the three, certainly worse than 2012. From what you've said there was certainly some missed opportunity and it focused quite a bit on other teams, but even though I don't remember much of the matches in this one either I still think I liked most of them. Even the horse one, of course that would never fly IRL but tons of stuff in the series wouldn't either, particularly the BS where you're just allowed to injure your opponent with the ball and even declare your intent blatantly and the judge has zero problem with it...

I do resonate with that one negative review that said there's too many that start from 5-0 down though. That's just lazy. And omitting the Sanada match was cringe.

Maybe it was partially an expectation thing, I expected the anime to fall off HARD given that most anime of this rating on MAL, especially if they're now, suck pretty bad, but even u17wc is certainly far better than most anime rated this low...
Oct 12, 12:16 AM
#9
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Apr 2013
901
Reply to Vipadus
CocoaGalaxy said:
The best I can say is its a genre thing.

I certainly get that many people aren't quite expecting the level of ridiculousness that PoT offers in relation to other sports anime, though I feel that would (and probably has) deterred a lot of viewers of the original show, even if it started off a lot more grounded than it eventually ended up becoming. That's partly why I said above it's a huge mistake for people to be jumping into this stuff without having watched the initial series first. Though I tend to like starting from the beginning anyway, I don't know why people just nosedive into a new season of a series without getting the context first...

CocoaGalaxy said:
I think most people dont even know prince of tennis exists.

Yeah, especially newer anime fans, like me for instance I only began watching in 2020, the only reason I know about it is because my brother who has watched far longer than me watched and liked PoT back in the day. Still, you'd expect even a modestly popular series to retain a little more popularity. I suppose one could argue that the most popular series are more prone to attracting the crazed fans who like basically everything they consume uncritically.

CocoaGalaxy said:
Usually the expectation is that the sequels are better, and while 2012 onwards might be "ok" its not necessarily better or even equal to nationals
Like I will say there are some ok/good moments, the thing is overall or something its debatable.

This is true, though in practice... sometimes they tend not to be :P It is certainly subjective to an extent though.

CocoaGalaxy said:
For 2012 for example, its not that bad. Its just a few silly moments. From what I recall, in the entire 12 episodes we only get 3 "full" matches, tezuka vs yamato, atobe vs irie, and ryoma vs migi, and even then its debatable how quality or iconic those matches are.

Agree, I might even find it on the whole better on average than the original series, although the original series did have higher peaks. I liked the whole part where "the losers" thought they were getting sent home but actually got sent to the rougher training camp and came back stronger, even if it was telegraphed pretty strongly that they weren't actually gonna leave.

CocoaGalaxy said:
Genius 10 flipped it around and almost every episode has a match. The thing is most of the matches are just whatever now. nio and atobe doubles, I dont even remember most of the rest of them. Kintaro vs oni singles, sanada and akutsu doubles, the random one with kite, tokugawa vs byodoin singles, eh.

I mean I don't remember a lot of the matches either, even from the previous series. I thought there were some cool ones, though maybe that was in 2012, but I tend to forget about them after some time unless they really stuck out. I liked it while I was watching it though.

CocoaGalaxy said:
And then u17wc is really the sad one. Exhibition vs germany, fuji and duke doubles, then atobe gets wiped out, then tokugawa and yukimura vs volk.
The silly horse tennis. Greece loses 3 matches in one ep, then australia, then losing to swiss. and the rest of the episodes are france. Even ryoma vs prince is kinda meh and sanada wins singles offscreen.

Ah, yes, the one where I share a pretty distinct opinion from most of MAL, apparently. TBF it's probably the worst out of the three, certainly worse than 2012. From what you've said there was certainly some missed opportunity and it focused quite a bit on other teams, but even though I don't remember much of the matches in this one either I still think I liked most of them. Even the horse one, of course that would never fly IRL but tons of stuff in the series wouldn't either, particularly the BS where you're just allowed to injure your opponent with the ball and even declare your intent blatantly and the judge has zero problem with it...

I do resonate with that one negative review that said there's too many that start from 5-0 down though. That's just lazy. And omitting the Sanada match was cringe.

Maybe it was partially an expectation thing, I expected the anime to fall off HARD given that most anime of this rating on MAL, especially if they're now, suck pretty bad, but even u17wc is certainly far better than most anime rated this low...
Sequel bias means, on average, they are Expected to have higher score
Having a same score on the sequel, is already a disappointment

And having a negative score means the sequel is really bleh...

Its hard to say. A bit of biases here and there, and animelist does slightly make changes here and there.

I dont read the manga, from what im told a fair bit of s1 is anime original and/or they made changes, particularly I believe ryoma vs sanada.

Like some time ago I rewatched s1 and its not nearly as great as I remember. Nostalgia bias and cherry picking for sure, on top of the fact that s1 is just old at this point, and a large quantity of matches and pacing means its not aged as well.

Even say the nationals, not all matches are equal, out of the 20 matches

The main problem with u17wc is it just feels very rough. The ryoma match felt kinda mediocre all things considered, and the others were like eh.
Oct 12, 1:16 AM
Offline
Apr 2023
49
Reply to CocoaGalaxy
Sequel bias means, on average, they are Expected to have higher score
Having a same score on the sequel, is already a disappointment

And having a negative score means the sequel is really bleh...

Its hard to say. A bit of biases here and there, and animelist does slightly make changes here and there.

I dont read the manga, from what im told a fair bit of s1 is anime original and/or they made changes, particularly I believe ryoma vs sanada.

Like some time ago I rewatched s1 and its not nearly as great as I remember. Nostalgia bias and cherry picking for sure, on top of the fact that s1 is just old at this point, and a large quantity of matches and pacing means its not aged as well.

Even say the nationals, not all matches are equal, out of the 20 matches

The main problem with u17wc is it just feels very rough. The ryoma match felt kinda mediocre all things considered, and the others were like eh.
@CocoaGalaxy Certainly rewatches can give us a clearer picture of things, I wasn't blown away by the original series either but I still like it well enough. It along with the new prince of tennis stuff is still firmly in the bottom half of my list (watched over 40 anime so far) but as I said I do like most things I watch.
You're certainly right that not only is much of the original series anime-original but they changed lots of things. Which is why new "Best Games" matches were released, redos of some of the best OG series matches to be far more faithful to the manga. Can't find a good sub anywhere though, nor is it on any streaming platforms to my knowledge.
Oct 12, 3:01 AM
Offline
Oct 2013
2
no more Ryouma Echizen chapters and ridiculous matches is the problem, i dont care about any otro characther bro i just wanna see to ryouma playing

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