Zerith>Clerith

Dec 5, 2008 4:49 AM

Offline

Mar 2008

389

Can we post our proofs here that Zerith way more canon than Clerith? I believe so. We should compile all the evidences from the whole FFVII compilation and other reliable sources as well.

Please separate personal opinion from fact :)

"One way, Jesus, You're the only one that I could live for! You are the way, the truth and the life. We live by faith and not by sight... "

Mar 14, 2009 1:44 AM

Ansfair

Offline

Mar 2009

Of course they are! Clerith is really a BIG NO!!!
Wanna proof? I've got all the proofs from the game that's undeniable.
1. In FF7 Aerith still wears her pink ribbon from Zack.
2. Aerith always wears pink dress as she promised with Zack to wear pink dress when they're gonna meet.
3. She wrote 89 letters to Zack for 4 years, it's love isn't it?
4. At Gongaga, she told Cloud about Zack. She describes him like she's really worried about him and kinda jealous, like, "He likes women, a really lady's man..."
5. On the date scene, Aerith said she sees Zack in Cloud, she waited for him, she wanted to meet Zack again (actually I watched it on You tube, coz I've got Tifa for Cloud. Yay Cloti!)

So? How could there be Clerith? It's all Zaerith from the very beginning till the end! Just let Cloti be! They're cute to be together ^w^
ZAERITH IS LOOOOVEEEEE!!!!

Nov 30, 2009 8:50 PM

walnut_tree

Offline

Nov 2009

258

Zerith > Clerith, most importantly, because that's SE's stance.

Aerith falls for Cloud almost immediately because he reminds her of Zack. SE drove this point home by intentionally connecting the circumstances of her meetings with both men.

The scene from this game where Zack falls from the sector 5 mako reactor down to the slum church and meets Aerith is basically the same situation in which Cloud and Aerith meet in “FFVII”. According to Mr. Nojima from the development staff, this was made as a scene to intentionally connect them, and in the same way Zack’s “one date” line connects to Aerith’s “one date” line to Cloud in “FFVII.”

SE has deliberately connected almost every one of Aerith's iconic aspects to Zack.

The reason she sells flowers in VII:

In this game, through her meeting with Zack, she is seen experiencing
the joy of selling flowers (closer to the joy of giving flowers to more people, rather than of monetary gains). It is probably because of this experience that she continues to sell flowers in “FFVII”.

Her clothes:

Zack’s specific suggestion was that Aerith wear pink. Ultimately this promise was not fulfilled, but Aerith–who continued to wait for Zack’s return–starts to wear pink after making this promise (as demonstrated in this game, “FFVII, “”BC”, etc).

Her ribbon:

The pink ribbon given to Aerith in Scene 04-09 as a ‘one day anniversary gift’. In “FFVII” and “BC” she wears the White Materia, a memento of her mother, with this ribbon.

It's a common claim that Aerith wasn't very serious about Zack, and that she was without a doubt over him by VII. But her instant crush on Cloud proves otherwise; she admits to Cloud himself that she saw Zack in him, and that she didn't know who Cloud really was.

"First off, it bothered me how you looked exactly like. Two completely different people, but look exactly the same. The way you walk, gesture... I think I must have seen him again, in you..."

And if Zack was no more than a small crush, would she have written him so many letters, and wore his ribbon and the pink he requested in anticipation for their next meeting?

The letters Aerith wrote to Zack after he went missing following the Nibelheim incident. She wrote a total of 89 letters over 4 years; 88 of those were left with Tseng, and the final letter was given to the Angeal Copy that had settled in the church.

If SE wanted us to believe that Aerith hadn't formed an unbreakable bond with Zack, why would they write these things in?

Aerith's and Zack's character bio pages are full of comments about the love between them. There is NOTHING discussing love between her and Cloud. If Zack were the light crush and Cloud was the true love, why would they repeatedly hammer in one bond and ignore the other?

(Crisis Core)The dull life in the Slum, the love with a SOLDIER who fell from the sky.

At that chosen day, she accidentally met Zack, SOLDIER 1st Class, and they were attracted to each other…

Aerith gently embraced Zack, who came back sad. The atmosphere makes them feel like a couple….

Zack seems to have a number of girlfriends, but especially informing his home means there’s no doubt that the partner is a special one.

“A guy who loves girls a lot” – That was what Aerith reflected on in FFVII, that Zack had a flirtatious streak, and was experienced in the treatment of the fairer sex. In BC, he gave compliments enough to set one’s teeth on edge to a female Turk member who was together with him on the same mission. As expected, there was a scene whereby he invited Cissnei, a young lady from the Turks, to a meal in CC. As a result of being able to surmise everything from each small deed, Aerith, who was in love with Zack, might perhaps have been jealous many times seeing all that…

Aerith, the girl whom he met at the slum’s church. The existence of the girl, who had earnestly come to love Zack with sincerity, eventually became irreplaceable to him.

She joined the Lifestream, but even then she carries on watching over the planet and Cloud. At all times, her first love Zack is always by her side.

“CC” shows her meeting and relationship with Zack, and the budding love between them. However, fate would tear the couple apart.

Aerith's meeting with Zack occurred on "the chosen day", but her meeting with Cloud was described as "a mere brief exchange of words."

Another huge strike against Clerith is the fact that Cloud-and-Tifa has been hammered in inside Cloud's character profile pages in the Ultimania, in a similar fashion to how Zack and Aerith's love is in their profiles.

In Tifa's profile there are paragraphs discussing how good she is for Cloud, how she understands him better than anyone else, is responsible for motivating him to fight in AC, etc.. In Cloud's it discusses Tifa's importance to Cloud, that they realized their feelings at the end of the story and decided to live and raise children together due to those feelings with Cloud being the one to take the iniative and ask her to be with him in "in a different way than before", that she's important to him as a woman and the mother of their family, that he is afraid to lose her and the happiness they've found together, etc... Mentions of Aerith in Cloud's profile describe her as a motherly presence to him, a fallen friend and comrade, and are most often linked with his feelings for Zack as two people he failed to save.

There are no mentions of love for her.

Credit goes to thelifestream.net's hitoshura for the translations he did of official SE materials that confirm that SE has been promoting two canon couples for VII- Cloud Strife with Tifa Lockhart, and Aerith Gainsborough with Zack Fair.

Sorry for the long post! x_x

walnut_treeDec 2, 2009 3:13 AM

Dec 1, 2009 12:22 AM

danceljoy

Offline

Mar 2008

389

EPIC POST Walnut! Nice one! Long posts are good, much more foolproof than comments like "OMG Clerith forever because they're so cute!" Good job for showing those proofs!

And here's another one from chibipinkbunny from the Neoseeker forums in the "Who does Aerith Love Thread?"

Part 1

chibipinkbunny said:

This thread gave me a good laugh because I'm glad I'm not the only one who cares about this topic ' I played FF7 years ago, and all I can remember is that there was sort of something going on between Aeris and Cloud, and Cloud and Tifa. It was never strong though, which bothered me at the time. I never really liked FF 7 much, but I picked up Crisis Core because it had good ratings. The Zack, and Aerith love story had me completely heartbroken by the end. I felt that Zack and Aerith belonged together. Anyway there are a few things that people have said that I disagree with.

1. It was only a light crush between Aerith, and Zack
What do people do when they're in love? Normal things. That's exactly what was so appealing with the whole Zack, and Aerith relationship; it felt real. True love isn't just saying I love you. He even ran around with a stupid little kid gathering the things to build a wagon. C'mon, what guy would do that for a girl if they weren't madly in love. Anyway, it certainly wasn't a light crush for Zack.
He spent all his free time with her. Everyone in Shinra knew that he had a "thing" with her. Even Sephiroth knew as evidenced by that one scene where he grants Zack permission to go back to Midgar. He died trying to get back to her. He might have been safer, and more clear thinking if he wasn't so eager to get back to Midgar. His last thoughts were of her. His passion, and intensity for her was obvious in the game. Aerith writes him 89 letters. That wasn't a mild crush. Zack's love for Aerith might have been stronger than her love for him, but it was still fairly strong for both of them.

2. They were too young for it to be true love.
I met my first love when I was 17. It was my first love, and only love, and we're married now. Romeo and Juliet were far younger than Zack, and Aerith, but they're not discounted because of their age. Also, I think Zack, and Aerith were fairly mature for their age. Look at what Zack was doing at 16. I'm an old soul though so it didn't strike me as odd that I met my "true love" at such a young age. I think Aerith was an old soul too. I don't think Zack was, but he seemed mature for his age.

3. They had a brother/sister relationship
Well there's a lot that probably went on that we weren't privy to in the video game. We didn't hear his every phone call, and we didn't see his every meeting with her. Besides Square couldn't make it too sappy if they still wanted to appeal to guys.

4. Aerith knew Cloud for two months
I read this in Final Fantasy Wiki. Wait, how can you fall in love with someone in two months? Maybe something was starting, but the starting phase. How do you know that someone really loves you in two months. . .She knew Zack for at least a year, and then spent the next 4 years writing him letters. . .

5. After death he tells Cloud (or someone else?) to say hi to Aerith if he sees her.
Actually this bothered me a bit. I thought that was kind of a cold thing to say to someone you were so in love with, however in the Japanese version he says, "When you meet Aerith I'm depending on you to look after her." Not sure why they changed it in the English version. I guess that part is what it is. The Zack/Cissnei scenes were toned down in the English version too.

6. She tones down/denies her love for Zack in FF 7.
So if CC never came out I might have thought Zack was just a former boyfriend. I never knew she spent 4 years writing him 89 letters that she wasn't even sure if he got. I think she was in denial about the whole thing in FF 7. She admits that Zack was her first love, but thinks he ran away with another girl. She must have known that he died though, but she couldn't function normally with that thought so she had to lie to herself to make things easier.

Also I thought Zack/Aerith matched better personality wise than Aerith/Cloud. Zack was super confident, while Aerith kind of lacked confidence. Zack had a strong personality, and Aerith seemed to be a bit softer. Cloud was super soft. He needed someone to tell him what to do. Ha, ha, that's why I think Tifa and Cloud would be a better item, but that's a whole other story. I think Cloud is too broken inside to love anyone in Advent Children. How could he fully love someone else when he's clinically depressed, and rotting inside from the guilt. There's a scene in Advent Children where Sephiroth asks Cloud what he cherishes most, and images of Aerith, Tifa, Marlene & Denzel, and Zack pop up. I think Cloud really loved Aerith, and Zack. (I could go on, and on about the whole Zack/Cloud dynamic, which was almost as touching as the Zack/Aerith relationship). I just don't think it was true love between Cloud and Aerith. Also Zack/Aerith appear in the Lifestream together. Was it just me, or did it look like he was reaching out to hold her hand? Anyway, the whole Zack/Aerith love story has moved me more than any other RPG so I felt I had to comment on it.

Part 2

chibipinkbunny said:

If you haven't played Crisis Core it's understandable that you might feel the way you do. I didn't care much for Zack until Crisis Core. Since its been so many years since I played FF 7 I recently watched a Youtube video of Zack, and Cloud's escape from the original FF 7. I almost laughed. It was very non-emotional, and Zack seems a bit like an arrogant punk. I can see why not many people cared about Zack until Crisis Core. Ha, ha, you're not the only one to say Crisis Core shouldn't change things because its in the past. I think the past is important though. If I never played Crisis Core I would have thought Zack was merely an acquaintance of Cloud, and just a first boyfriend for Aerith that she didn't care too much about. FF 7 didn't really do his character justice. Watching random scenes, or reading the script doesn't do Zack's character justice either. Crisis Core made him real. They gave him emotions, and he was just such a likeable character. He had such passion for life, and loved Cloud, and Aerith very much. Viewing the present in light of the past gives one a much different perspective. If we didn't know about Cloud's past we'd have a much different opinion of his character. Knowing the pain that Cloud went through in the past we can better appreciate his character, just like Zack. Knowing Zack's past gives one a much different perspective of his character also.

One of the more interesting things about Crisis Core is that they changed Aerith's perspective of Zack's death. Without playing Crisis Core it seems that she never finds out what happens to Zack, and she thinks that he ran off with some other girl. However in light of Crisis Core it seems like she's in severe denial instead. Here's my interpretation. One of the better arguments for the fact that Aerith probably knew about Zack's death was that she knew about Elmyra's husband's death. If she could sense that as a child, then she most likely sensed Zack's death as an adult. Plus the fact that she had a horrified look on her face, and put her hands up in prayer as Zack's life was slowly draining away. If she didn't know that he died, she obviously knew something REALLY bad happened to him. Taking the original FF7 viewpoint that Aerith simply felt her relationship with Zack wasn't serious makes her seem a bit callous. I mean Zack dies just trying to get back to her, she's the last thing in his memory before death, and she has the audacity to tell Cloud her relationship with Zack isn't serious?! That just doesn't jive with Aerith's character. Further proof of the fact that the Zack/Aerith relationship was serious is that when Elmyra meets Cloud she doesn't like him because she said that Aerith was hurt very bad by someone in SOLDIER. Aerith told Cloud her relationship with Zack wasn't serious, but why would she be hurt so bad if it wasn't serious, you know. If I remember correctly there's a message you get from the Zack fan club after Zack's confirmed death, and the flower girl refuses to believe it. Her wagon breaks, and she won't let anyone fix it because she's waiting for Zack to come back and do it. If you notice she carries a flower basket in FF 7 instead of a dragging along a flower wagon like she did in Crisis Core. After Zack died she wouldn't let anyone else fix it. He also asks her in the game to wear a pink dress. She tells him it's silly. What does she end up wearing at the end of the game? A pink dress. It's like she's still waiting for him. Also, why would anyone write 89 letters to someone that isn't writing back if they didn't truly love them. Aerith is nice, but not that nice. That's obsession, passion, and love.

You do realize the reason that Zack never wrote Aerith back right? He, and Cloud were imprisoned in the tortuous depths of Hojo's lab, and experimented on for four years. I think the game makes it cleaner than it really was. They most likely were not stuck in Mako tubes for four years. When Cissnei asks Zack what they did to him in the lab he says, "A lot of things," (Japanese version) or "This, and that," (English version). That implies torture to me, but that's a whole other issue though. Poor Zack

Yes I agree that Aerith got over Zack's death somewhat by FF7. I mean if my husband died now would I remain single for the rest of my life to preserve my memory of him? Would I be sad every day for the rest of my life? Maybe, I don't know. I don't think about it much. People often do remarry after a spouse dies. It doesn't mean that you ever stop loving your first love though. I think you always have a special place in your heart for a loved one that dies. You may get over them in the sense that you can move on, but you never stop loving them, and you certainly don't forget them or the memories.

danceljoyDec 1, 2009 12:30 AM

"One way, Jesus, You're the only one that I could live for! You are the way, the truth and the life. We live by faith and not by sight... "

Zerith>Clerith

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