Umineko no Naku Koro ni Episode 24 Discussion

June_1983 said:


I can't believe there's no Worldenddominator though. They used it multiple times and I did like the remix.

We really do need an ost thread :D :D :D

Darklight0303 said:
Woah track 24 I can't remember when that plays in the anime but I LOVE it @_@

hirahira said:


And Battler also called Kinzo Goldsmith in EP1 and Kyrie mentions "The North Wind and The Sun"

And there's some foreshadowing for EP5 stuff too

Darklight0303 said:
We can only hope that's what will happen.

MarthX said:
I get the feeling this is going to be one of the episodes where the VN fans hate it and people who haven't read the VN will love it.

wakka9ca said:


Nope, I haven't read the VN but I'm not impressed by the episode....still too many unknowns to start a "logical" deduction...and stuffs happening at random... plot holes that should have existed...

MarthX said:


It's not supposed to be easy. And there aren't any plot holes. If there's inconsistencies, then they're inconsistent for a reason.

If a detective has some clues but decides it's not enough and doesn't even try to work with what he's given, then he's a lousy detective.

This is going to be a COMPLETE shot in the dark, but I'm just going to say it. I think MARIA is the culprit behind ALL OF THIS. If you pay attention to the Sakutaro incident, he was created of ZERO. She is the witch who can create something out of nothing. I think that Maria created Beatrice and all the witches, so her family will believe in her magic, and take her seriously. Being that NONE OF THEM actually believe in her nor her magic. SHE is Beatrice.

VERY good guess, but Im not sure if thats true.
Maria was a human. She met beatrice, and Beato and Virgilia made her a witch.
Then..Was Maria a fake witch..?
IDK.

yeah..it's a very cloudy, unclear guess. But this CONSTANT theme with Maria just keeps poping up far too often. the 'Happy halloween Maria' death is one. Not to mention, the Siestas for example, HIGHLY resemble that of her bunny ceramic figures. And they have HIGH respect for Maria, and carry out orders for her. It's far too fishy. Obviously she's in on a pact with Beatrice, OR she's the main person in charge of this forever tormenting 'game'.

Zonak said:

What do you guys think about it?

"But this also opens another interesting trail of thought : what happened to Asumu's son, the "real" Battler ? What if he didn't die, and was still around somewhere ? This guy would carry the mother of all grudges against Battler first, and the Ushiromiya family as a whole second, wouldn't he ?

It's too bad we don't have on the island a young man, about 18, conveniently an orphan, refusing to tell his real name to anyone, whose whereabouts are suspect in nearly every scenario, and who seems to despise the whole Ushiromiya family apart from the two girls who might be "Beatrice" (ie, in a situation similar to his own)...

Oh, wait."

Zonak said:
What do you guys think about it?

MarthX said:
An interesting theory.

vinesage said:
might as well stop making theory~

my first thought was it cant be, but thinking about it for a sec, I realize I have no obvious argument to counter it and Kanon indeed has no alibi anywhere if the problem about his name is to be considered... further more the theory makes sense: orphanage, his age, his character etc... But have to say I still dont like it~ yeah, I dont like the theory doubting his "fake" name to begin with and I dont like how Jessica or Shanon have died but that could apply to anyone else (but indeed only in arc 2 or arc1)
anyway, would be a real surprise for me if that turns out to be true and its indeed interesting~

Edit: just realize a question: does anyone still know if the human Beatrice still showed up somewhere after Jessica died in arc2? (not that Im really into that theory -_-')

Darklight0303 said:
Kanon is confirmed DEAD by the RED every time though so he can't be the culprit. He might be an accomplice though >_>

you mean apart from when she pops up in Kinzo's study and calls Battler over to accept his defeat?

noteDhero said:
Can't that be side-stepped by saying, "The person known as Kanon is dead, as he then took the mantle of Ushiromiya Battler, head of the family"?

vinesage said:
Edit: just realize a question: does anyone still know if the human Beatrice still showed up somewhere after Jessica died in arc2? (not that Im really into that theory -_-')

vinesage said:
^´don't wanna read your spoiler~ -_-'

vinesage said:
I am thinking about the theory that some many seem to have: Kanon is not his real name just like Shanon isnt. Shanon is called Sayo or so~

ok, thx for that info :-)

When Beatrice says in red "this person" is dead, then he is dead. No way around. Point. but theres also the theory saying that Beatrice never really refers to the Kanon we know cause that name is not his real name. and thats about the same theory when people doubting about the time point of death when a dead is named in red.
But...if you ask me, i dont like that theory at all.

Darklight0303 said:
Plus Kanon was raised in an orphanage RUN BY KINZO.

Darklight0303 said:
There's also another thing. Who would tell Kanon that he is a member of the Ushiromya? @,@ He's supposedly an orphan that was taken in at Kinzo's oprhanage

vinesage said:
about the same theory when people doubting about the time point of death when a dead is named in red.

Dark_Requiem said:


Well it's made by Ryukishi07 so I'm expecting some crazy plot twist that seems unlikely but ultimately can be backed up by small information gathered throughout the story. Personally I think Kanon is the culprit (especially because of EP1) and that as NoteDhero says he forsakes his name "Kanon" partway through the story and becomes "Battler". That way the person known as "Kanon" is dead because he is now "Battler" (can easily explain EP3 Nanjo's murder too).

Darklight0303 said:

in episode 1 it's unlikely. Remember Shanon dies. Yes she IS the real once since only half her face is smashed off so no body double

Enchant said:


That's what the problem was in the last arc. Remember Nanjo is the one doing the autopsies, there's a chance he could be an accomplice and lie. He's said before that there maybe a misdiagnosis because he lacks the proper tools or he could just make a mistake.

Dark_Requiem said:
Shannon's body is seen by only Nanjo and Hideyoshi. And the red text says


and think back on how Kanon died, the placement of the stake, and if you read the VN the red text.

Darklight0303 said:


The way I see it he was an accomplice. Rember his monologue before he died. How he didn't care about their game but that he made a promise that if Shanon died he would smash the roulette. That sounds like something along the lines that he worked with the real culprit as long as Shanon remained alive and well

Darklight0303 said:
The placement of the stake? It was right in the middle of his chest perforating his lungs. That's a killing move. >_>

The way I see it he was an accomplice. Remember his monologue before he died. How he didn't care about their game but that he made a promise that if Shanon died he would smash the roulette. That sounds like something along the lines that he worked with the real culprit as long as Shanon remained alive and well

vinesage said:

I dont see problem with any murder in arc3 except the one of Nanjo, that was a real problem. So I cant see why you think Nanjo's diagnosis is particularly important there. (personally I think his diagnosis changes a lot more in arc 1 and 2)

Darklight0303 said:
if that were true Eva would not have survived in episode 3 since she virtually became the heir

Darklight0303 said:

in episode 1 it's unlikely. Remember Shanon dies. Yes she IS the real once since only half her face is smashed off so no body double

Also no if that were true then a piece of the Red text would not work.
the part with Battler not being a murderer and how he was keeping an eye on Eva

MarthX said:


None of the 6 victims in the first twilight of game 1 have been confirmed in red. The only people who saw Shannon's corpse were Nanjo (maybe), Hideyoshi and Kanon. If for some reason, they're lying then you have absolutely no proof that Shannon was killed.

Enchant said:


If we can trust piece-Battler's perspective, what he sees and investigates is the truth, unless he's drunk. The family seems to put their utmost trust in Nanjo and don't seem to investigate the corpses themselves and come into physical contact with them unless they're mourning. So if Nanjo says that Kyrie is dead and no one else bothers to check, they believe him. But even if they do, it isn't to say that they won't make the same error or lie.

Some injuries aren't fatal. The area of the body, the type of wound, time of death and possible murder weapon used are important.

In the hallway of the mansion, Hideyoshi was staked in the chest, Rudolf was staked in the head and Kyrie was staked in the stomach. What we saw, were the Siesta's killing them with 'golden threads', but stakes are now in those wounds.

Episode 17:


Battler asks Ronove to confirm something:


Ronove never answered in red and this was later forgotten by Battler.

vinesage said:
...And if anyone survived, I would think it was Kyrie. I think she was shot and stabbd in the belly, while the other 2 are stab in the heart and head....

Alexstratz said:
Gaap and Ronove, you have my respect for being master trolls.