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Anime Stats
Days: 65.3
Mean Score: 7.85
  • Total Entries66
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  • Episodes3,932
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Naruto: Shippuuden Movie 5 - Blood Prison
Naruto: Shippuuden Movie 5 - Blood Prison
May 27, 6:08 AM
Completed 1/1 · Scored 8
Mahoutsukai no Yome
Mahoutsukai no Yome
May 27, 6:07 AM
Completed 24/24 · Scored 8
Isekai Quartet
Isekai Quartet
May 26, 3:16 PM
Watching 6/12 · Scored 8
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All Comments (4) Comments

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Calal-Chan May 26, 11:35 PM
Don't worry about getting back so late XD. Also my word what I typed is terrible. Just forwarning that I honestly didn't understand most of your points. It is probably just a me thing not being able to understand your thought process, but I hope that is a good enough reason that you understand why some of what I say below is just whatever. I will state it here since I just have no idea where this is gonna go since I feel being in an actual call would have been better, but we might just want to agree to disagree. Since I don't feel text is going to work here for me. It was an interesting time for sure and I apprecaite you being nice about it and all. Anyway enjoy the mess below.

1. I wasn't stating it was 100% self-centered though. At the start, it wasn't but because of Shichika, she changed a lot. Yeah, all you are saying here is stuff I mostly agree with. It is what makes her a good character XD. I don't see why making it successful would make it different considering it tends to be "successful in most shounen, but I do know even though she loved Shichika that she might have still killed him out of her own selfishness. But I don't really think this is on my first point anyway. My point here is that the show breaks your expectations on purpose. Kind of confused what you are arguing here as for the most part it isn't countering my original point but instead bringing up different ones. Your points above even describe why I think Togame is a great character lol.

2. Yeah my knowledge on OPM is pretty limited. So I won't try to debate you on any of that. I can't quite agree with you on Mob though. Most shounen is about maturing and growing up through various things. Also, you do realize that is the point of Katanagatari right? It is basically saying look how shounen I am when in reality if you look at what it is actually doing with its subversion it isn't. Katanagatari isn't about growing up. It is about Humanization of its characters. The point of them failing, in the end, is to break the expectation of what they describe in the first episode. Heck, the story is 12 episodes long and there are 12 swords. It is even episodic. It is trying to make you think oh they will always get a sword in an episode.

You mentioning his power up isn't a typical power-up actually helps my point too. It isn't even a real power up. It is just his normal strength.

3. The story kind of trolls on that. It even states that Shichika definitely lived, but we don't know for how long. I don't think we need a clear cut answer here. Not much is clear cut in the ending and it relies on the viewer to try and interpret his thoughts and how he viewed Togames final statements. So no I don't think it is that clear. If he had gone on and actually died then sure it would have been clear. But that would make his character less complex. Losing someone isn't a simple thing. His emotions were going haywire. Having the feeling of wanting to die but still wanting to live is very common actually. I mean he doesn't even want to "die". He wanted to be killed by the same guy who killed the love of his life.

4. I honest to god don't understand anything you said here lol. I never said a story needs good morals to be a high-quality story.

5. I don't understand how you are confused about what Katanagatri is doing with this and why I said it was contradictory for you. The show is acting like it is doing what a normal shounen would do. And instead, it does something different. This is why the ending feels like it breaks promises left and right. Because the show really isn't a shounen. Also, a story breaking too many "promises" are fine. Just because Togame states her revenge will be a success doesn't mean it will be. That is too idealistic, Which shounens are known for. Shounens are idealistic because of the demographic they are written for.

Honestly, if you got this far I am kind of sorry about all above, but I honestly can't really interpret your points very well. I don't feel like most of them even relate to most of what I have said.

In my final opinion here I think you are kind of putting Katanagatari in a box. I feel like you wanted the ending to deliver on the promise of success, but if Katanagatari did that then it would have just been another generic shounen. Instead if plays with your expectations as a viewer and throws it all out the window. Which you view as a big negative, but that is always what the show was doing. It does it here and there throughout the story. It even has an episode that spoils the episode after it and then meets those expectations. The show just lies to the viewer. While hilariously also telling the truth. It gives a big of truths and lies. Some of those truths then actually being lies and the lies sometimes being truths. I know that sounds like a bunch of bs, but it is literally what has been happening. Especially with Togame as a character. Every time her eye is changing she is "scheming". We never really 100% know what is going on with her as a character. What parts of her really care for people around her or what parts of her are genuine. The show isn't just saying oh here is the 12 swords. Let's go collect them. I hope I don't sound triggered, I am just honestly confused at most of your thoughts that I can't really comment on them to well.
Calal-Chan May 22, 10:43 PM
Alright just got home from work and free to respond. Glad to hear you are open for discussion. Always keep in mind during this that I am not trying to be a crazed fanboy. (granted I kind of am)

“Regardless of its attempts to mock the shounen genre, there is a reason why the shounen genre has been so successful. Its how the set-up works with the ending. Typically, a shounen anime/manga isn't about what will happen at the end.”

I actually think Katanagatari’s ending reflects this theme really well. Considering how “bad” the ending is. If you pay more attention to their relationship and how he developed as a human along the journey then I would say the journey in katanagatari is similar to shounens in that. The only thing it subverts from shounens is that instead of collecting all the swords and gaining their goals they don’t attain them due to Togame’s self-centered revenge. Which revenge plots are very common in shounens. Katanagatari just handles it differently. Not to mention the show breaks promises left and right. I mean the show literally hypes up a fight scene for 3 episodes and then says screw you to the watcher.

“Personally, I believe one punch man is a much better representation of an anime that mocks the shounen medium. Instead of overdoing the talking between fights, it manipulates the troupes of the genre in a way that makes it clear that its attempting to mock the genre.”

I can’t say since I dropped OPM out of boredom, but if it is anything like how Mob Psycho is handled I would guess it turns into a regular shounen. Since they are done by the same author. But I can’t agree with this statement. From what little I have seen from OPM it seemed to be an over the top comedy relying on using very similar jokes to get quick laughs while sort of embracing shounens. Kind of like Mob Psycho except I thought Mob was better. Katanagatari is doing more than just mocking the genre. It is taking the troupes and making you expect it is going to follow the shounen cliches and then subverting your expectations and doing something different. The whole I am OP now because I can break the swords is subverting that the main character in a shounen usually has some “hidden” power. Naruto's Jinchuriki, Bleaches Bankai, Mob’s 100%, HeroAca’s going beyond 100%, Luffy having more and more gears, etc. I was simply just talking about the talking during fights since most shounens do that, but Katana is more subversion than a pure parody like OPM or Mob.

“One of my biggest problems with the ending was something I could not mention in my review as it contained too many spoilers. After breaking the promises made throughout the entire story, it also broke the promise made in the final episode. Specifically, when he says that he didn't come to the castle for revenge, but to die. Which is broken in the post-credit scene when you see him journeying with princess Hitei. While still not my most preferable ending, it relates back to his sister's death, and maintains a sense of connection to an earlier point in the story. “

The ending is very trolly from the author, but it can be seen kind of like this. His initial reaction was to commit what I call the Romeo and Juliet curse, but after failing to do so he decided to listen to Togame one last time and live his life. You can also note that he kind of reverted back to his old ways from the first couple episodes. This is to show how much Togame changed him as a person.

“Finally, It's not that I didn't enjoy this anime, actually I believe enjoyment was the criteria that I rated the highest, however, overall enjoyment is not what I value the most. As a writer myself, what is most important to me is what I can learn from every story that I watch/read/listen to, and I feel that what I learned the most from this were things not to do. I'm open to discussing this further, however, by that point you may already be torn to pieces.”

I can’t stand 100% by that since I feel it is all subjective reasoning anyway. Due to different life experiences and how we all view the world differently, but I feel there's a lot to learn from Katanagatari. The major one being don’t let revenge or jealousy or any of those negative emotions rule your life. If so it will only lead down a path of misery and failure. If the ending was more positive at all such as them getting all the swords and “winning” it would have ruined that major theme and left the show in a sort of weird problem where revenge is the right answer. Which I don’t feel to be the case.

Another big aspect we can learn is the people around us can change us so much. That we should cherish what little we might have and hold on to it as we don’t know when it will be taken from us. And as life is finite it will either be taken or we will die before that. Basically we should cherish what we have. I feel you can look at this show as in what not to do which helps us learn. Granted I think you might have been talking about writing but even then I think just letting it be an actual shounen would make this show give negative values to people.

Shounen themselves are about the journey. Something like HeroAca is what it takes to really be a hero. The villains and world around it reflect that. So do the new trainees trying to understand what it means while making mistakes along the way. Something like Naruto is about family and especially later war themes.

The last thing I will touch on in these sentences together. Even if they are “separate”

“After breaking the promises made throughout the entire story, it also broke the promise made in the final episode.”

“Typically, a shounen anime/manga isn't about what will happen at the end.”

These are fairly contradictory as the first one makes it like you are expecting a specific ending. Based off what the show has told you, but if it even went with that then it would have been an actual normal shounen. When as I said above it really isn’t. Your thoughts here reflect you were expecting a specific ending like something similar to Naruto, but I feel that shouldn’t be the case if it is about the Journey instead.

Thanks for dealing with my rambling. I tried to keep it coherent but I had a long day and I am tired as all get out. You are welcome for the essay XD. I hope some of what I said makes sense.

Calal-Chan May 21, 5:13 PM
I hope I don't come off as a crazed fanboy. I just love this show.

All I am going to say about your review on Katanagatari is that I feel you missed the whole point of the show. Most of the talking during fights is to mock shounen series for doing the same. (especially stuff like naruto with the talk no jutsu) Granted it is also being self-aware with that concept. Basically, the whole show is a subversion of the shounen demographic which the ending reflects by breaking your expectation of what the ending should be.

You also misrepresented the ending too. It has multiple meanings. One of the biggest being how seeking revenge leads to misfortune and unhappiness. The other being that sometimes effort alone isn't enough to attain your goals. It basically shows the cruel side of our world. I could actually write you an essay on everything the show did, but I think at that point I will have annoyed you to pieces. (please tell me you got that)