Attack on Titan
Deadbones1226 said: I think it's just some people that felt guilty after the staff at MAPPA recieved death threats because of little details, after all this IS the most toxic fanbase there is. Exactly, my thoughts. Things wouldn't have gone this way if the AOT fandom wasn't this toxic. |
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| You can call it what you like but people throwing the talent MAPPA has under the bus because the AOT wasn't up to par despite the awful production schedule that has been there even in the WIT days (which is why production was dropping even back in S3 Part 2 it was only after the titans became CG people noticed) in my opinion is unreasonable. It's the same reason I think people who go after A-1 (despite recent good work on Kaguya or 86 ignoring the production issues) or Cloverworks (when idiots only can bring up the pacing of the plot something they aren't in control of) are dumb too. MAPPA has plenty of issues regarding overwork and training which can be said about a good portion of this industry though they are in another extreme. Doesn't mean their work is in large trash especially as a lot of people are just hype battle shonen fans who only became aware of them recently and don't know of their past work before they got stuff like JJK or AOT. DavePro has had critics, Ufotable hasn't of the moment but if they adapt something not up to par people will come out and whine. WIT has also in the past gotten bashed because of work on stuff like Iron Fortress. |
BilboBaggins365Jan 12, 2022 7:40 AM
| I mean it’s not really weird, plenty of studios have big fanbases that follow everything they do because their output is always top tier. I’d consider myself a bit MAPPA fan, same goes for KyoAni and Shaft. |
| even if that's the case, i still prefer it over shitting on mappa |
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| People do so because dumb AOT stans thinks Mappa is the worst studio. Almost like they haven't seen other animes like JJK or God of Highschool. |
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| I don't get mappa having a defence force BUT I'm a self proclaimed member of the DEEN defence force which is even more weird so I guess it makes some sense. |
| MEA·MENTVLA·INGENS·EST |
| I guess it's because of JJK where MAPPA are god-like and many other reasons that have nothing to do with AoT. |
| Imagine normies saying: "Peaky Blinders is mid and overhyped. Just another typical crime drama show. Breaking Bad is much better lol.". |
Newcummerr said: bernkastelrika said: kyoani, trigger, and ghibli has fanbase too so it's normal Its kinda different in many ways tho. Mappas fanbase is toxic to the point they'll do anything to destroy those who criticize mappa. Kyoani, trigger and ghibli fans are mostly very chill and don't spread so much toxicity. I never saw this so-called MAPPA fanbase before the final season of Attack on Titan started airing. And, when you'll have a toxic fandom as AOT, you'll find people who will defend the studio as well. So, it's safe to say that the MAPPA fanbase arrived along with the haters who spread toxicity about a certain studio or production committee. |
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Newcummerr said: Pre_Yum said: I never saw this so-called MAPPA fanbase before the final season of Attack on Titan started airing. And, when you'll have a toxic fandom as AOT, you'll find people who will defend the studio as well. So, it's safe to say that the MAPPA fanbase arrived along with the haters who spread toxicity about a certain studio or production committee. Because in a way AoT made mappa as famous as it is today. And that's also when people started seeing how terribly the studio treats its staff and that may have also been a trigger for the "dedicated" fanbase mappa has now. No, even before AOT, MAPPA had things like GOH, Dorohedoro, Dororo where they have done an outstanding job in animation. Yes, AOT has brought them into the spotlight but at a very unfortunate time. Also, terribly treating their staff is something that you've heard from so many butthurt MAPPA haters because they can't seem to enjoy the spotlight that MAPPA is getting. Another thing is that I know how the animation industry is overworked and stuff but taking into consideration, one person saying that MAPPA is treating them badly doesn't speak for everyone. So, comments like these that "MAPPA treats their staff horribly" spread the hatred towards the staff that's working on the project and the studio itself. |
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| Nothing wrong with appreciating animators. Better than hating any day. |
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| This is such a useless thread again. I have seen these threads several times last year. Don't waste your time on this shit, just ket it slide and let other people enjoy what they want. |
LightSkinHokage_ said: I’m pretty most if not all top tier studios like Ghibli, BONES, Pierrot, Toei, Madhouse, Ufotable ..etc .. have a fanbase. I don’t think it’s solely a MAPPA/AOT thing. You seriously ppace Pierrot in the same list as Ufotable. Get out of here |
| Ufotable has plenty of fans that will defend their honor, just look above^ |
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Newcummerr said: I believe the treatment of employees in every studio is essentially the same with some few exceptions. Regardless I don't think calling out a studio for it is a bad thing, it brings attention to a bigger problem that needs to be addressed. It just so happens that the attention is on mappa, mostly due to the fact that it has become the largest studio in the industry currently. While yes people do take it too far by hating on the staff members, I think the studio itself should be held accountable, and that it is a good thing that many are starting to realize how terrible the industry is in general. Problem is that some fans are hypocrites about it and actually don't care about work place standards. Madhouse was for long the darling of some within the community because of the works they created. Doesn't matter if the studio was incredibly abusive and worked it's employees to the bone they made good anime so they are a good studio. Less the case now because Madhouse in large isn't as relevant though I have heard older fans who haven't been in the medium for awhile talking about them like they were one of the best studios ever. The only reason why there is all this drama around MAPPA now is because they brought on a bunch of big projects that hype action fans care about. Science Saru another studio responsible for making good anime but also overworking it's employees isn't getting the same amount of attention because outside of Devilman most of it's projects are smaller and nicher. A lot of fans only care to defend their anger to the studio over not adapting something properly in their eyes or supporting hype for anything future the studio does. Most don't truly care about what is going on with the industry. You see people fanboy for WIT and how bad MAPPA is while ignoring they were killing their animators on this project as well. As long as the product turns out good that is all that matters to them. |
BilboBaggins365Jan 12, 2022 11:05 AM
Newcummerr said: BilboBaggins365 said: Problem is that most people are hypocrites about it and actually don't care about work place standards. Madhouse was for long the darling of some within the community because of the works they created. Doesn't matter if the studio was incredibly abusive and worked it's employees to the bone they made good anime so they are a good studio. The only reason why there is all this drama around MAPPA now is because they brought on a bunch of big projects that hype action fans care about. Science Saru another studio responsible for making good anime but also overworking it's employees isn't getting the same amount of attention because again it hasn't taken on a big action shonen title. A lot of fans only care to defend their anger to the studio over not adapting something properly in their eyes or supporting hype for anything future the studio does not the actually what is going on with the industry. As long as that results in a big change in the industry I couldn't care less. People can hate all they want, it's their opinion, even tho I do agree with you on a lot of things. Either way I think being a fan of an animation studio is stupid, it's just another factor that fuels toxicity in this community. Can't believe people stopped doing anime wars and have now started studio wars. It's just laughable. There isn't anything wrong with assuming if x studio has done shows I have really liked I probably will like more for them. Though of course staff is what truly matters but studios can work with similar staff or have good in staff creations like Kyoto Animation. I am not even saying we shouldn't go after MAPPA for what they are doing. We should. The industry needs to be held to a higher standard I am just questioning why some studios get attention and not others. Often it's just who the masses hate today because of some wronged adaption. If you produce gold people don't care how many people you have to beat to get it done. If AOT was this ideal perfect adaption I don't think it would get the same level of attention. WIT's struggles over AOT's production to me didn't seem to get as much attention as MAPPA did. One had 2D titans the other didn't though so now it's a big issue. Personally I value when studios do try to improve the standards of the industry. Kyoto Animation has made a lot of shows I really like but at the same time they haven't made some my absolute favourite shows. I will still put them above Studios like WIT (maybe WIT is getting better since Wada got reassigned and they got off AOT IDK) or Science Saru who have adapted some of my favourite works like Vinland Saga of Ping Pong the Animation. |
Newcummerr said: BilboBaggins365 said: There isn't anything wrong with assuming if x studio has done shows I have really liked I probably will like more for them. Though of course staff is what truly matters but studios can work with similar staff or have good in staff creations like Kyoto Animation. I am not even saying we shouldn't go after MAPPA for what they are doing. We should. The industry needs to be held to a higher standard I am just questioning why some studios get attention and not others. Often it's just who the masses hate today because of some wronged adaption. If you produce gold people don't care how many people you have to beat to get it done. If AOT was this ideal perfect adaption I don't think it would get the same level of attention. WIT's struggles over AOT's production to me didn't seem to get as much attention as MAPPA did. One had 2D titans the other didn't though so now it's a big issue. Personally I value when studios do try to improve the standards of the industry. Kyoto Animation has made a lot of shows I really like but at the same time they haven't made some my absolute favourite shows. I will still put them above Studios like WIT or Science Saru who have adapted some of my favourite works like Vinland Saga of Ping Pong the Animation. Yeah I agree. I think popularity is the main reason why some studios get called out for their wrongdoings and some don't. Studios like Mappa, Ufotable, Bones, Kyoani etc are always the center of attention, and they'll inevitably get the most hate or support. Although Kyoani is pretty much the only exception here. At the end of the day people will keep hating on studios they don't like regardless if the industry changes or not. Yeah Bones is another good example of studio that was getting a lot of praise after the first seasons of MHA and their previous legacy on FMA. Now I have seen some bash them as a trash studio just over S5 ignoring they have been doing good work on Vanitas. |
| its more pity like people already mention but its a wrong directed pity since MAPPA higher ups should be blamed and not praise because they accepted the project that even WIT studio denied now read this thread here by the director of Vinland Saga now working for MAPPA https://twitter.com/yabshu55/status/1480629029409812482 in short praise the staff list and not the studio and i may add since majority of professionals in the anime industry are freelancers anyway MAPPA is a big company but they overwork and underpay their workers but that is their strategy too to make their company big so a lot of the Sakuga Community is educating the public about that they are not necessarily spreading hate but saying stop idolizing the studio and start praising individual staff members instead because even those are just slaves of MAPPA |
| idk Mabey its because everyone is hating on them when the job they did was not really that bad. this "Mappa fanbase" you talk about are just people who don't think the animation was shit like you do. |
| It might be because some people are insulting MAPPA and its staff. |
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| being a fan of shit animation is indeed odd, maybe they are sadists? |
I do agree with you that the staff members should be praised, not the studio itself. Then, again a studio is also somewhat responsible for how an adaptation will look or be adapted, will it do good or bad? But, again, we can't just blatantly say and pull out the 'they're underpaying and overworking the staff' card at every single thing when that incident occurred once. Yes, the industry itself is underpaid but is it MAPPA's fault that the animators are underpaid? Like Yabuta sensei said, "For many anime titles, the studio's Investment ratio is close to 0%. Regardless of the quality or success of the title, in most cases there will be no return to studios, so studios cannot have retained earnings to make a sufficient investment." Looking at his own statement, we can't put the whole blame on MAPPA for underpaying them when they themselves aren't making a lot from the projects they're working on. Nearly all of the money goes to the investors and the producers who've invested in the project. The thing we can call MAPPA out for is taking on too many projects, but then again we come with another obstacle is that 'If you want to keep a studio running especially if the studio has more than 250+ employees, you need to take multiple projects in a year', it's not the case of Kyoani and Ufotable with them where everything happens inside their own pipeline and the profits stay with them. And, ufotable who has multiple ways to earn their income not just animation business. So, considering everything, it's a huge dilemma in the industry, if we want MAPPA to stop pushing themselves, either they'll have to become a smaller studio with smaller staff or they need to work on more projects like CHAINSAW MAN which is their own passion project where everything is in house and the profits will stay in the studio itself, that again will depend on the success of the project. If Chainsaw Man succeeds, that will encourage them to do more stuff like that. |
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Pre_Yum said: I do agree with you that the staff members should be praised, not the studio itself. Then, again a studio is also somewhat responsible for how an adaptation will look or be adapted, will it do good or bad? But, again, we can't just blatantly say and pull out the 'they're underpaying and overworking the staff' card at every single thing when that incident occurred once. Yes, the industry itself is underpaid but is it MAPPA's fault that the animators are underpaid? Like Yabuta sensei said, "For many anime titles, the studio's Investment ratio is close to 0%. Regardless of the quality or success of the title, in most cases there will be no return to studios, so studios cannot have retained earnings to make a sufficient investment." Looking at his own statement, we can't put the whole blame on MAPPA for underpaying them when they themselves aren't making a lot from the projects they're working on. Nearly all of the money goes to the investors and the producers who've invested in the project. The thing we can call MAPPA out for is taking on too many projects, but then again we come with another obstacle is that 'If you want to keep a studio running especially if the studio has more than 250+ employees, you need to take multiple projects in a year', it's not the case of Kyoani and Ufotable with them where everything happens inside their own pipeline and the profits stay with them. And, ufotable who has multiple ways to earn their income not just animation business. So, considering everything, it's a huge dilemma in the industry, if we want MAPPA to stop pushing themselves, either they'll have to become a smaller studio with smaller staff or they need to work on more projects like CHAINSAW MAN which is their own passion project where everything is in house and the profits will stay in the studio itself, that again will depend on the success of the project. If Chainsaw Man succeeds, that will encourage them to do more stuff like that. the thing is it depends if they are part of the production committee aka the owners of the anime project, if MAPPA is part of the production committee of Chainsaw Man then they will have more profit like right now they are in the production committee of both Jujutsu Kaisen and Attack on Titan Final Season you said the exceptions that are Ufotable and KyoAni too, both of this studios do everything in-house and they also have like 200 employees but they do not overwork their staff since they only do few anime each season and this studios make sure they are part of the production committee of every anime they make MAPPA did the cheapest way possible to have 200 employees or become a big company and its not sustainable since they go for quantity of projects more, unlike with Ufotable and KyoAni where less is more motto but still they have 200 employees too (sure KyoAni lost like 40-50 employees from the fire incident though so now they only have like 150-160 employees at the moment which is still big compared to the likes of BONES or WIT) |
| not true. david productions and ufotable do have a “fan base” that throws complements all over. i think mappa’s is the loudest due to the drama of the first part of the season. plus mappas just really good imo. |
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deg said: Pre_Yum said: I do agree with you that the staff members should be praised, not the studio itself. Then, again a studio is also somewhat responsible for how an adaptation will look or be adapted, will it do good or bad? But, again, we can't just blatantly say and pull out the 'they're underpaying and overworking the staff' card at every single thing when that incident occurred once. Yes, the industry itself is underpaid but is it MAPPA's fault that the animators are underpaid? Like Yabuta sensei said, "For many anime titles, the studio's Investment ratio is close to 0%. Regardless of the quality or success of the title, in most cases there will be no return to studios, so studios cannot have retained earnings to make a sufficient investment." Looking at his own statement, we can't put the whole blame on MAPPA for underpaying them when they themselves aren't making a lot from the projects they're working on. Nearly all of the money goes to the investors and the producers who've invested in the project. The thing we can call MAPPA out for is taking on too many projects, but then again we come with another obstacle is that 'If you want to keep a studio running especially if the studio has more than 250+ employees, you need to take multiple projects in a year', it's not the case of Kyoani and Ufotable with them where everything happens inside their own pipeline and the profits stay with them. And, ufotable who has multiple ways to earn their income not just animation business. So, considering everything, it's a huge dilemma in the industry, if we want MAPPA to stop pushing themselves, either they'll have to become a smaller studio with smaller staff or they need to work on more projects like CHAINSAW MAN which is their own passion project where everything is in house and the profits will stay in the studio itself, that again will depend on the success of the project. If Chainsaw Man succeeds, that will encourage them to do more stuff like that. the thing is it depends if they are part of the production committee aka the owners of the anime project, if MAPPA is part of the production committee of Chainsaw Man then they will have more profit like right now they are in the production committee of both Jujutsu Kaisen and Attack on Titan Final Season you said the exceptions that are Ufotable and KyoAni too, both of this studios do everything in-house and they also have like 200 employees but they do not overwork their staff since they only do few anime each season and this studios make sure they are part of the production committee of every anime they make MAPPA did the cheapest way possible to have 200 employees or become a big company and its not sustainable since they go for quantity of projects more, unlike with Ufotable and KyoAni where less is more motto but still they have 200 employees too (sure KyoAni lost like 40-50 employees from the fire incident though so now they only have like 150-160 employees at the moment which is still big compared to the likes of BONES or WIT) This is what I'm saying the MAPPA approach towards this is taking more projects which eventually leads them to overwork where Kyoani and Ufotable's approach is completely different. Kyoani and Ufotable pick up the projects where they see the most profit coming their way and work on those projects to their best whereas MAPPA takes projects which are given to them (the higher-ups who decide to work on which project) it doesn't matter how many projects are coming their way, they don't say "NO" for some reason whether it could be greed or the hunger to become one of the big dogs in the industry ignoring the fact that it is actually backfiring on them. That's why I said, either work on stuff that's actually profiting them or just go with the Kyoani or Ufotable approach and don't take too many projects and focus on the one thing you're doing. |
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Pre_Yum said: deg said: the thing is it depends if they are part of the production committee aka the owners of the anime project, if MAPPA is part of the production committee of Chainsaw Man then they will have more profit like right now they are in the production committee of both Jujutsu Kaisen and Attack on Titan Final Season you said the exceptions that are Ufotable and KyoAni too, both of this studios do everything in-house and they also have like 200 employees but they do not overwork their staff since they only do few anime each season and this studios make sure they are part of the production committee of every anime they make MAPPA did the cheapest way possible to have 200 employees or become a big company and its not sustainable since they go for quantity of projects more, unlike with Ufotable and KyoAni where less is more motto but still they have 200 employees too (sure KyoAni lost like 40-50 employees from the fire incident though so now they only have like 150-160 employees at the moment which is still big compared to the likes of BONES or WIT) This is what I'm saying the MAPPA approach towards this is taking more projects which eventually leads them to overwork where Kyoani and Ufotable's approach is completely different. Kyoani and Ufotable pick up the projects where they see the most profit coming their way and work on those projects to their best whereas MAPPA takes projects which are given to them (the higher-ups who decide to work on which project) it doesn't matter how many projects are coming their way, they don't say "NO" for some reason whether it could be greed or the hunger to become one of the big dogs in the industry ignoring the fact that it is actually backfiring on them. That's why I said, either work on stuff that's actually profiting them or just go with the Kyoani or Ufotable approach and don't take too many projects and focus on the one thing you're doing. if they continue to overproduce and overwork then MAPPA will implode like MadHouse did and funny because MAPPA was made by the former CEO of MadHouse to not repeat the mistake of MadHouse which they are doing again there at MAPPA and obviously its the greed of the higher ups at MAPPA |
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