Attack on Titan
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Jun 25, 2021 12:31 AM
#101
Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: no paridis getting attacked in the future doesn’t make the moral eren should have killed everyone. it makes the moral that you’ll never end conflict. Were you really expecting armin to manage to end war forever? Lol, that’s dumb and you know the chapter ends with someone finding the tree so clearly not everyone on the island is dead.Nobody5464 said: deg said: except it wasn’t pro genocide. Arjun thanks eren yes but he calls erens actions a mistake and stops him from finishing them. He was more thanking him for caring about them so much. And the message isn’t that eren should have killed everyone it’s that conflict won’t ever disappear.for me i just hate the pro-genocide message of the finale especially the extra 8 pages showing that the consequence of not doing The Rumbling all the way leads to the destruction of Paradis centuries later anyway as for Ymir she is still a mystery i think what she revealed about her past to Eren and Mikasa are different like we saw Ymir fail to save the King on Mikasas revelation while in Eren she got stockholm syndrome the final chapter goes like the consequence of not doing the full Rumbling is the destruction of Paradis a century later so a lot of fans will say Eren should have done the full Rumbling instead aka pro genocide you basically do not understand the genocide message there in the final chapter then, i do not know how much more simple i can word it for you basically genocide becomes a Necessary Evil for either paradis or his friends to live long No nothing about the ending makes genocide necessary. Literally every character in the entire story agrees there had to be different ways to handle this and also that even if there actually wasn’t genocide would still be wrong. That’s why they stop him. Paradis getting involved in a war a century or more later after they stop him doesn't in any way make stopping him the wrong choice. That’s nonsense. You can never stop conflict and that was a running theme in the story. It was even pointed out that even if eren had succeeded eventually paradis would just start having civil wars and killing each other anyway. Nothing stops conflict. So no conflict still being around at the end doesn't send the message that genocide is right. dude The Rumbling is Genocide its that simple wtf and youre telling me Genocide is not necessary here in the story when Eren decided its needed and the story ending justifies The Rumbling whether 80% or full Rumbling Eren was specifically shown as being in the wrong for doing it and was killed to stop it. And no war not ceasing to exist dosent equal the rumbling was necessary. Conflict was never gonna disappear wether eren did the Rumbling or not. That’s a consistent theme of the story. That human conflict will never disappear. but The Rumbling is ONE of the solutions provided by the story itself also if the genocide for the rest of the world was successful then Paradis will have no enemies for even thousands of years Someone trying to do something in a story doesn't mean the story approves of that thing. Yes eren thought genocide was an option and some crazy people like flock and the yeagerists agreed but the story explicitly goes out of its way to show their in the wrong. So no it doesn’t support genocide. And dude did you even read the story? Paradi was on tract to have a full blown civil war even had eren succeeded and this was called out by several characters you including most of the surviving main characters and that asian lady who straight up says killing everyone won’t end conflict your just making the world smaller. Even had the rumbling succeeded the people of paradi would have eventually started killing each other. This is one of the core story themes of the work. and did you read the final chapter of the manga? Historia united the whole Paradis to become a Military State and shouting that motto of Eren "if they do not win or fight then they will lose and die" and Eren himself said the rest of the world will not be able to make war with Paradis for decades because the Rumbling is 80% done on humanity so obviously the fans of Eren and The Rumbling will say why not Eren did 100% of the Rumbling for the rest of the world i do not know how this simple thoughts gets overlook by you dont be a blind fanboy |
Jun 25, 2021 12:32 AM
#102
Most haters are Yeagerists who wanted Eren to kill everybody and go back to Paradise to have sex in a barn with Historia. I think it was bad but for objective reasons. There was never going to be a satisfying ending since the Marley arc. AoT is a war story that failed to expound on reasons for it. |
Jun 25, 2021 12:41 AM
#103
deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: no paridis getting attacked in the future doesn’t make the moral eren should have killed everyone. it makes the moral that you’ll never end conflict. Were you really expecting armin to manage to end war forever? Lol, that’s dumb and you know the chapter ends with someone finding the tree so clearly not everyone on the island is dead.Nobody5464 said: deg said: except it wasn’t pro genocide. Arjun thanks eren yes but he calls erens actions a mistake and stops him from finishing them. He was more thanking him for caring about them so much. And the message isn’t that eren should have killed everyone it’s that conflict won’t ever disappear.for me i just hate the pro-genocide message of the finale especially the extra 8 pages showing that the consequence of not doing The Rumbling all the way leads to the destruction of Paradis centuries later anyway as for Ymir she is still a mystery i think what she revealed about her past to Eren and Mikasa are different like we saw Ymir fail to save the King on Mikasas revelation while in Eren she got stockholm syndrome the final chapter goes like the consequence of not doing the full Rumbling is the destruction of Paradis a century later so a lot of fans will say Eren should have done the full Rumbling instead aka pro genocide you basically do not understand the genocide message there in the final chapter then, i do not know how much more simple i can word it for you basically genocide becomes a Necessary Evil for either paradis or his friends to live long No nothing about the ending makes genocide necessary. Literally every character in the entire story agrees there had to be different ways to handle this and also that even if there actually wasn’t genocide would still be wrong. That’s why they stop him. Paradis getting involved in a war a century or more later after they stop him doesn't in any way make stopping him the wrong choice. That’s nonsense. You can never stop conflict and that was a running theme in the story. It was even pointed out that even if eren had succeeded eventually paradis would just start having civil wars and killing each other anyway. Nothing stops conflict. So no conflict still being around at the end doesn't send the message that genocide is right. dude The Rumbling is Genocide its that simple wtf and youre telling me Genocide is not necessary here in the story when Eren decided its needed and the story ending justifies The Rumbling whether 80% or full Rumbling Eren was specifically shown as being in the wrong for doing it and was killed to stop it. And no war not ceasing to exist dosent equal the rumbling was necessary. Conflict was never gonna disappear wether eren did the Rumbling or not. That’s a consistent theme of the story. That human conflict will never disappear. but The Rumbling is ONE of the solutions provided by the story itself also if the genocide for the rest of the world was successful then Paradis will have no enemies for even thousands of years Someone trying to do something in a story doesn't mean the story approves of that thing. Yes eren thought genocide was an option and some crazy people like flock and the yeagerists agreed but the story explicitly goes out of its way to show their in the wrong. So no it doesn’t support genocide. And dude did you even read the story? Paradi was on tract to have a full blown civil war even had eren succeeded and this was called out by several characters you including most of the surviving main characters and that asian lady who straight up says killing everyone won’t end conflict your just making the world smaller. Even had the rumbling succeeded the people of paradi would have eventually started killing each other. This is one of the core story themes of the work. and did you read the final chapter of the manga? Historia united the whole Paradis to become a Military State and shouting that motto of Eren "if they do not win or fight then they will lose and die" and Eren himself said the rest of the world will not be able to make war with Paradis for decades because the Rumbling is 80% done on humanity so obviously the fans of Eren and The Rumbling will say why not Eren did 100% of the Rumbling for the rest of the world i do not know how this simple thoughts gets overlook by you dont be a blind fanboy The island United because they were high on a “victory”/martyrdom of eren but that unity didn’t make everyone happy and the country wasn’t stable. Eventually they’d start in fighting. Just look at the date of the island earlier in the series for proof of that. They genuinely believes they were the only humans on earth and they even had a common enemy in the Titans and yet they were killing each other all the time. Killing everyone would not have made the island eternally peaceful. Do you not know how countries work? Fans of eren wanting him to have killed everyone doesn't mean the story supports genocide. Fans do not define a story. The story never once says genocide is acceptable and in fact even eren the perpetrator of said genocide goes out of his way to say that his actions are unjustifiable and unforgivable. You are looking for ways to say the story promotes something it doesn't to justify your outrage rather than basing your response on what actually is shown. |
Jun 25, 2021 12:45 AM
#104
Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: no paridis getting attacked in the future doesn’t make the moral eren should have killed everyone. it makes the moral that you’ll never end conflict. Were you really expecting armin to manage to end war forever? Lol, that’s dumb and you know the chapter ends with someone finding the tree so clearly not everyone on the island is dead.Nobody5464 said: deg said: except it wasn’t pro genocide. Arjun thanks eren yes but he calls erens actions a mistake and stops him from finishing them. He was more thanking him for caring about them so much. And the message isn’t that eren should have killed everyone it’s that conflict won’t ever disappear.for me i just hate the pro-genocide message of the finale especially the extra 8 pages showing that the consequence of not doing The Rumbling all the way leads to the destruction of Paradis centuries later anyway as for Ymir she is still a mystery i think what she revealed about her past to Eren and Mikasa are different like we saw Ymir fail to save the King on Mikasas revelation while in Eren she got stockholm syndrome the final chapter goes like the consequence of not doing the full Rumbling is the destruction of Paradis a century later so a lot of fans will say Eren should have done the full Rumbling instead aka pro genocide you basically do not understand the genocide message there in the final chapter then, i do not know how much more simple i can word it for you basically genocide becomes a Necessary Evil for either paradis or his friends to live long No nothing about the ending makes genocide necessary. Literally every character in the entire story agrees there had to be different ways to handle this and also that even if there actually wasn’t genocide would still be wrong. That’s why they stop him. Paradis getting involved in a war a century or more later after they stop him doesn't in any way make stopping him the wrong choice. That’s nonsense. You can never stop conflict and that was a running theme in the story. It was even pointed out that even if eren had succeeded eventually paradis would just start having civil wars and killing each other anyway. Nothing stops conflict. So no conflict still being around at the end doesn't send the message that genocide is right. dude The Rumbling is Genocide its that simple wtf and youre telling me Genocide is not necessary here in the story when Eren decided its needed and the story ending justifies The Rumbling whether 80% or full Rumbling Eren was specifically shown as being in the wrong for doing it and was killed to stop it. And no war not ceasing to exist dosent equal the rumbling was necessary. Conflict was never gonna disappear wether eren did the Rumbling or not. That’s a consistent theme of the story. That human conflict will never disappear. but The Rumbling is ONE of the solutions provided by the story itself also if the genocide for the rest of the world was successful then Paradis will have no enemies for even thousands of years Someone trying to do something in a story doesn't mean the story approves of that thing. Yes eren thought genocide was an option and some crazy people like flock and the yeagerists agreed but the story explicitly goes out of its way to show their in the wrong. So no it doesn’t support genocide. And dude did you even read the story? Paradi was on tract to have a full blown civil war even had eren succeeded and this was called out by several characters you including most of the surviving main characters and that asian lady who straight up says killing everyone won’t end conflict your just making the world smaller. Even had the rumbling succeeded the people of paradi would have eventually started killing each other. This is one of the core story themes of the work. and did you read the final chapter of the manga? Historia united the whole Paradis to become a Military State and shouting that motto of Eren "if they do not win or fight then they will lose and die" and Eren himself said the rest of the world will not be able to make war with Paradis for decades because the Rumbling is 80% done on humanity so obviously the fans of Eren and The Rumbling will say why not Eren did 100% of the Rumbling for the rest of the world i do not know how this simple thoughts gets overlook by you dont be a blind fanboy The island United because they were high on a “victory”/martyrdom of eren but that unity didn’t make everyone happy and the country wasn’t stable. Eventually they’d start in fighting. Just look at the date of the island earlier in the series for proof of that. They genuinely believes they were the only humans on earth and they even had a common enemy in the Titans and yet they were killing each other all the time. Killing everyone would not have made the island eternally peaceful. Do you not know how countries work? Fans of eren wanting him to have killed everyone doesn't mean the story supports genocide. Fans do not define a story. The story never once says genocide is acceptable and in fact even eren the perpetrator of said genocide goes out of his way to say that his actions are unjustifiable and unforgivable. You are looking for ways to say the story promotes something it doesn't to justify your outrage rather than basing your response on what actually is shown. "thank you for being a mass murderer for us Eren" - Armin and no matter what other translation or words they replace it with the message is clear that Armin is thankful for The Rumbling or Eren that did the genocide damn i know fiction can be interpreted in many ways but youre not even considering how controversial this Rumbling stuff is lol and the fact that many Eren and Yeagerist fans wants The Rumbling to be 100% done on the rest of the world do tell how much they interpret the story message that way |
Jun 25, 2021 1:10 AM
#105
deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: no paridis getting attacked in the future doesn’t make the moral eren should have killed everyone. it makes the moral that you’ll never end conflict. Were you really expecting armin to manage to end war forever? Lol, that’s dumb and you know the chapter ends with someone finding the tree so clearly not everyone on the island is dead.Nobody5464 said: deg said: except it wasn’t pro genocide. Arjun thanks eren yes but he calls erens actions a mistake and stops him from finishing them. He was more thanking him for caring about them so much. And the message isn’t that eren should have killed everyone it’s that conflict won’t ever disappear.for me i just hate the pro-genocide message of the finale especially the extra 8 pages showing that the consequence of not doing The Rumbling all the way leads to the destruction of Paradis centuries later anyway as for Ymir she is still a mystery i think what she revealed about her past to Eren and Mikasa are different like we saw Ymir fail to save the King on Mikasas revelation while in Eren she got stockholm syndrome the final chapter goes like the consequence of not doing the full Rumbling is the destruction of Paradis a century later so a lot of fans will say Eren should have done the full Rumbling instead aka pro genocide you basically do not understand the genocide message there in the final chapter then, i do not know how much more simple i can word it for you basically genocide becomes a Necessary Evil for either paradis or his friends to live long No nothing about the ending makes genocide necessary. Literally every character in the entire story agrees there had to be different ways to handle this and also that even if there actually wasn’t genocide would still be wrong. That’s why they stop him. Paradis getting involved in a war a century or more later after they stop him doesn't in any way make stopping him the wrong choice. That’s nonsense. You can never stop conflict and that was a running theme in the story. It was even pointed out that even if eren had succeeded eventually paradis would just start having civil wars and killing each other anyway. Nothing stops conflict. So no conflict still being around at the end doesn't send the message that genocide is right. dude The Rumbling is Genocide its that simple wtf and youre telling me Genocide is not necessary here in the story when Eren decided its needed and the story ending justifies The Rumbling whether 80% or full Rumbling Eren was specifically shown as being in the wrong for doing it and was killed to stop it. And no war not ceasing to exist dosent equal the rumbling was necessary. Conflict was never gonna disappear wether eren did the Rumbling or not. That’s a consistent theme of the story. That human conflict will never disappear. but The Rumbling is ONE of the solutions provided by the story itself also if the genocide for the rest of the world was successful then Paradis will have no enemies for even thousands of years Someone trying to do something in a story doesn't mean the story approves of that thing. Yes eren thought genocide was an option and some crazy people like flock and the yeagerists agreed but the story explicitly goes out of its way to show their in the wrong. So no it doesn’t support genocide. And dude did you even read the story? Paradi was on tract to have a full blown civil war even had eren succeeded and this was called out by several characters you including most of the surviving main characters and that asian lady who straight up says killing everyone won’t end conflict your just making the world smaller. Even had the rumbling succeeded the people of paradi would have eventually started killing each other. This is one of the core story themes of the work. and did you read the final chapter of the manga? Historia united the whole Paradis to become a Military State and shouting that motto of Eren "if they do not win or fight then they will lose and die" and Eren himself said the rest of the world will not be able to make war with Paradis for decades because the Rumbling is 80% done on humanity so obviously the fans of Eren and The Rumbling will say why not Eren did 100% of the Rumbling for the rest of the world i do not know how this simple thoughts gets overlook by you dont be a blind fanboy The island United because they were high on a “victory”/martyrdom of eren but that unity didn’t make everyone happy and the country wasn’t stable. Eventually they’d start in fighting. Just look at the date of the island earlier in the series for proof of that. They genuinely believes they were the only humans on earth and they even had a common enemy in the Titans and yet they were killing each other all the time. Killing everyone would not have made the island eternally peaceful. Do you not know how countries work? Fans of eren wanting him to have killed everyone doesn't mean the story supports genocide. Fans do not define a story. The story never once says genocide is acceptable and in fact even eren the perpetrator of said genocide goes out of his way to say that his actions are unjustifiable and unforgivable. You are looking for ways to say the story promotes something it doesn't to justify your outrage rather than basing your response on what actually is shown. "thank you for being a mass murderer for us Eren" - Armin and no matter what other translation or words they replace it with the message is clear that Armin is thankful for The Rumbling or Eren that did the genocide damn i know fiction can be interpreted in many ways but youre not even considering how controversial this Rumbling stuff is lol and the fact that many Eren and Yeagerist fans wants The Rumbling to be 100% done on the rest of the world do tell how much they interpret the story message that way He calls it a mistake that same line. He’s thanking eren for caring about them enough to do something that ridiculous for them he isn’t condoning it. If he condoned it he wouldn’t have tried to stop him. What the fans wanted to happen doesn't matter in a discussion of what the story tried to present. It wouldn’t matter if literally every fan wanted the rumbling to succeed if the story tells us it’s not a good thing and shouldn’t happen the story isn’t condoning it just because some fans are. The story tells us over and over that it’s not ok so it’s not condoning it. |
Jun 25, 2021 1:13 AM
#106
Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: no paridis getting attacked in the future doesn’t make the moral eren should have killed everyone. it makes the moral that you’ll never end conflict. Were you really expecting armin to manage to end war forever? Lol, that’s dumb and you know the chapter ends with someone finding the tree so clearly not everyone on the island is dead.Nobody5464 said: deg said: except it wasn’t pro genocide. Arjun thanks eren yes but he calls erens actions a mistake and stops him from finishing them. He was more thanking him for caring about them so much. And the message isn’t that eren should have killed everyone it’s that conflict won’t ever disappear.for me i just hate the pro-genocide message of the finale especially the extra 8 pages showing that the consequence of not doing The Rumbling all the way leads to the destruction of Paradis centuries later anyway as for Ymir she is still a mystery i think what she revealed about her past to Eren and Mikasa are different like we saw Ymir fail to save the King on Mikasas revelation while in Eren she got stockholm syndrome the final chapter goes like the consequence of not doing the full Rumbling is the destruction of Paradis a century later so a lot of fans will say Eren should have done the full Rumbling instead aka pro genocide you basically do not understand the genocide message there in the final chapter then, i do not know how much more simple i can word it for you basically genocide becomes a Necessary Evil for either paradis or his friends to live long No nothing about the ending makes genocide necessary. Literally every character in the entire story agrees there had to be different ways to handle this and also that even if there actually wasn’t genocide would still be wrong. That’s why they stop him. Paradis getting involved in a war a century or more later after they stop him doesn't in any way make stopping him the wrong choice. That’s nonsense. You can never stop conflict and that was a running theme in the story. It was even pointed out that even if eren had succeeded eventually paradis would just start having civil wars and killing each other anyway. Nothing stops conflict. So no conflict still being around at the end doesn't send the message that genocide is right. dude The Rumbling is Genocide its that simple wtf and youre telling me Genocide is not necessary here in the story when Eren decided its needed and the story ending justifies The Rumbling whether 80% or full Rumbling Eren was specifically shown as being in the wrong for doing it and was killed to stop it. And no war not ceasing to exist dosent equal the rumbling was necessary. Conflict was never gonna disappear wether eren did the Rumbling or not. That’s a consistent theme of the story. That human conflict will never disappear. but The Rumbling is ONE of the solutions provided by the story itself also if the genocide for the rest of the world was successful then Paradis will have no enemies for even thousands of years Someone trying to do something in a story doesn't mean the story approves of that thing. Yes eren thought genocide was an option and some crazy people like flock and the yeagerists agreed but the story explicitly goes out of its way to show their in the wrong. So no it doesn’t support genocide. And dude did you even read the story? Paradi was on tract to have a full blown civil war even had eren succeeded and this was called out by several characters you including most of the surviving main characters and that asian lady who straight up says killing everyone won’t end conflict your just making the world smaller. Even had the rumbling succeeded the people of paradi would have eventually started killing each other. This is one of the core story themes of the work. and did you read the final chapter of the manga? Historia united the whole Paradis to become a Military State and shouting that motto of Eren "if they do not win or fight then they will lose and die" and Eren himself said the rest of the world will not be able to make war with Paradis for decades because the Rumbling is 80% done on humanity so obviously the fans of Eren and The Rumbling will say why not Eren did 100% of the Rumbling for the rest of the world i do not know how this simple thoughts gets overlook by you dont be a blind fanboy The island United because they were high on a “victory”/martyrdom of eren but that unity didn’t make everyone happy and the country wasn’t stable. Eventually they’d start in fighting. Just look at the date of the island earlier in the series for proof of that. They genuinely believes they were the only humans on earth and they even had a common enemy in the Titans and yet they were killing each other all the time. Killing everyone would not have made the island eternally peaceful. Do you not know how countries work? Fans of eren wanting him to have killed everyone doesn't mean the story supports genocide. Fans do not define a story. The story never once says genocide is acceptable and in fact even eren the perpetrator of said genocide goes out of his way to say that his actions are unjustifiable and unforgivable. You are looking for ways to say the story promotes something it doesn't to justify your outrage rather than basing your response on what actually is shown. "thank you for being a mass murderer for us Eren" - Armin and no matter what other translation or words they replace it with the message is clear that Armin is thankful for The Rumbling or Eren that did the genocide damn i know fiction can be interpreted in many ways but youre not even considering how controversial this Rumbling stuff is lol and the fact that many Eren and Yeagerist fans wants The Rumbling to be 100% done on the rest of the world do tell how much they interpret the story message that way He calls it a mistake that same line. He’s thanking eren for caring about them enough to do something that ridiculous for them he isn’t condoning it. If he condoned it he wouldn’t have tried to stop him. What the fans wanted to happen doesn't matter in a discussion of what the story tried to present. It wouldn’t matter if literally every fan wanted the rumbling to succeed if the story tells us it’s not a good thing and shouldn’t happen the story isn’t condoning it just because some fans are. The story tells us over and over that it’s not ok so it’s not condoning it. lol a story is meant to be openly interpreted by its fans wtf are you saying heck the editor and Isayama himself makes excuses for this pro genocide interpretation if you do not want to call it a message youre too bias with your own interpretation |
Jun 25, 2021 11:20 AM
#107
deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: no paridis getting attacked in the future doesn’t make the moral eren should have killed everyone. it makes the moral that you’ll never end conflict. Were you really expecting armin to manage to end war forever? Lol, that’s dumb and you know the chapter ends with someone finding the tree so clearly not everyone on the island is dead.Nobody5464 said: deg said: except it wasn’t pro genocide. Arjun thanks eren yes but he calls erens actions a mistake and stops him from finishing them. He was more thanking him for caring about them so much. And the message isn’t that eren should have killed everyone it’s that conflict won’t ever disappear.for me i just hate the pro-genocide message of the finale especially the extra 8 pages showing that the consequence of not doing The Rumbling all the way leads to the destruction of Paradis centuries later anyway as for Ymir she is still a mystery i think what she revealed about her past to Eren and Mikasa are different like we saw Ymir fail to save the King on Mikasas revelation while in Eren she got stockholm syndrome the final chapter goes like the consequence of not doing the full Rumbling is the destruction of Paradis a century later so a lot of fans will say Eren should have done the full Rumbling instead aka pro genocide you basically do not understand the genocide message there in the final chapter then, i do not know how much more simple i can word it for you basically genocide becomes a Necessary Evil for either paradis or his friends to live long No nothing about the ending makes genocide necessary. Literally every character in the entire story agrees there had to be different ways to handle this and also that even if there actually wasn’t genocide would still be wrong. That’s why they stop him. Paradis getting involved in a war a century or more later after they stop him doesn't in any way make stopping him the wrong choice. That’s nonsense. You can never stop conflict and that was a running theme in the story. It was even pointed out that even if eren had succeeded eventually paradis would just start having civil wars and killing each other anyway. Nothing stops conflict. So no conflict still being around at the end doesn't send the message that genocide is right. dude The Rumbling is Genocide its that simple wtf and youre telling me Genocide is not necessary here in the story when Eren decided its needed and the story ending justifies The Rumbling whether 80% or full Rumbling Eren was specifically shown as being in the wrong for doing it and was killed to stop it. And no war not ceasing to exist dosent equal the rumbling was necessary. Conflict was never gonna disappear wether eren did the Rumbling or not. That’s a consistent theme of the story. That human conflict will never disappear. but The Rumbling is ONE of the solutions provided by the story itself also if the genocide for the rest of the world was successful then Paradis will have no enemies for even thousands of years Someone trying to do something in a story doesn't mean the story approves of that thing. Yes eren thought genocide was an option and some crazy people like flock and the yeagerists agreed but the story explicitly goes out of its way to show their in the wrong. So no it doesn’t support genocide. And dude did you even read the story? Paradi was on tract to have a full blown civil war even had eren succeeded and this was called out by several characters you including most of the surviving main characters and that asian lady who straight up says killing everyone won’t end conflict your just making the world smaller. Even had the rumbling succeeded the people of paradi would have eventually started killing each other. This is one of the core story themes of the work. and did you read the final chapter of the manga? Historia united the whole Paradis to become a Military State and shouting that motto of Eren "if they do not win or fight then they will lose and die" and Eren himself said the rest of the world will not be able to make war with Paradis for decades because the Rumbling is 80% done on humanity so obviously the fans of Eren and The Rumbling will say why not Eren did 100% of the Rumbling for the rest of the world i do not know how this simple thoughts gets overlook by you dont be a blind fanboy The island United because they were high on a “victory”/martyrdom of eren but that unity didn’t make everyone happy and the country wasn’t stable. Eventually they’d start in fighting. Just look at the date of the island earlier in the series for proof of that. They genuinely believes they were the only humans on earth and they even had a common enemy in the Titans and yet they were killing each other all the time. Killing everyone would not have made the island eternally peaceful. Do you not know how countries work? Fans of eren wanting him to have killed everyone doesn't mean the story supports genocide. Fans do not define a story. The story never once says genocide is acceptable and in fact even eren the perpetrator of said genocide goes out of his way to say that his actions are unjustifiable and unforgivable. You are looking for ways to say the story promotes something it doesn't to justify your outrage rather than basing your response on what actually is shown. "thank you for being a mass murderer for us Eren" - Armin and no matter what other translation or words they replace it with the message is clear that Armin is thankful for The Rumbling or Eren that did the genocide damn i know fiction can be interpreted in many ways but youre not even considering how controversial this Rumbling stuff is lol and the fact that many Eren and Yeagerist fans wants The Rumbling to be 100% done on the rest of the world do tell how much they interpret the story message that way He calls it a mistake that same line. He’s thanking eren for caring about them enough to do something that ridiculous for them he isn’t condoning it. If he condoned it he wouldn’t have tried to stop him. What the fans wanted to happen doesn't matter in a discussion of what the story tried to present. It wouldn’t matter if literally every fan wanted the rumbling to succeed if the story tells us it’s not a good thing and shouldn’t happen the story isn’t condoning it just because some fans are. The story tells us over and over that it’s not ok so it’s not condoning it. lol a story is meant to be openly interpreted by its fans wtf are you saying heck the editor and Isayama himself makes excuses for this pro genocide interpretation if you do not want to call it a message youre too bias with your own interpretation Isiyama apolofized for not getting his message across clearly enough which is why people like you think it was pro genocide not for actually having the story be pro genocide, He never did that. Also fans wanting eren to have killed everyone because their edgy isn’t the same thing as the story telling them he should have killed everyone. |
Jun 25, 2021 11:24 AM
#108
engich said: You continue with your "genocide is shown to be bad" when Yama made every plan except the full rumbling impossible for Paradis survival. What's the difference between Eren's rumbling and Zeke's plan? It's Armin's life. Basically Eren's plan -> next Paradis generations are dead, Eren's friends managed to live for some time, 80% of human population is dead. Zeke's plan -> there's no next generations, Armin is dead in ~8-9 years but other friends probably will live, 80% of human population is alive (well, there'll be much less casualties if Eren only rumbled military bases, so it's not 80% for sure). Isayama didn't even bother to give alliance some plan for Paradis. Their whole agenda is "yeah, Paradis will be fucked but genocide is bad!". Yeah, it's bad but you can't write full rumbling as the only solution for Paradis, make alliance literally agree with Floch that they'll doom Paradis by stopping Eren and hope for all your audience to root for alliance. And no, civil wars don't destroy countries to dust. Civil war in not full carpet bombing like shown in extra pages. Cycle of hatred was never between people in general, it was between Paradis and outside world. Stopping the first one is impossible when stopping the second one is possible only with Paradis/outside world annihilation. If you want to show that people will always fight you can just write full rumbling ending and show that in a few decades people will fight in a civil war. Dude the extra pages clearly show someone on paradi finding the tree. So clearly not everyone died. And man you seriously need to reread the whole manga. The message that you’ll never stop conflict between people is a consistent theme from the earliest parts of the story. The message is genocide both is never justifiable and wouldn’t have stopped conflict anyway so if you have any kind of morality you stop it from happening and deal with the future when it happens. Zelda plan is also genocide so you also can’t condone it. |
Jun 25, 2021 11:57 AM
#109
Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: no paridis getting attacked in the future doesn’t make the moral eren should have killed everyone. it makes the moral that you’ll never end conflict. Were you really expecting armin to manage to end war forever? Lol, that’s dumb and you know the chapter ends with someone finding the tree so clearly not everyone on the island is dead.Nobody5464 said: deg said: except it wasn’t pro genocide. Arjun thanks eren yes but he calls erens actions a mistake and stops him from finishing them. He was more thanking him for caring about them so much. And the message isn’t that eren should have killed everyone it’s that conflict won’t ever disappear.for me i just hate the pro-genocide message of the finale especially the extra 8 pages showing that the consequence of not doing The Rumbling all the way leads to the destruction of Paradis centuries later anyway as for Ymir she is still a mystery i think what she revealed about her past to Eren and Mikasa are different like we saw Ymir fail to save the King on Mikasas revelation while in Eren she got stockholm syndrome the final chapter goes like the consequence of not doing the full Rumbling is the destruction of Paradis a century later so a lot of fans will say Eren should have done the full Rumbling instead aka pro genocide you basically do not understand the genocide message there in the final chapter then, i do not know how much more simple i can word it for you basically genocide becomes a Necessary Evil for either paradis or his friends to live long No nothing about the ending makes genocide necessary. Literally every character in the entire story agrees there had to be different ways to handle this and also that even if there actually wasn’t genocide would still be wrong. That’s why they stop him. Paradis getting involved in a war a century or more later after they stop him doesn't in any way make stopping him the wrong choice. That’s nonsense. You can never stop conflict and that was a running theme in the story. It was even pointed out that even if eren had succeeded eventually paradis would just start having civil wars and killing each other anyway. Nothing stops conflict. So no conflict still being around at the end doesn't send the message that genocide is right. dude The Rumbling is Genocide its that simple wtf and youre telling me Genocide is not necessary here in the story when Eren decided its needed and the story ending justifies The Rumbling whether 80% or full Rumbling Eren was specifically shown as being in the wrong for doing it and was killed to stop it. And no war not ceasing to exist dosent equal the rumbling was necessary. Conflict was never gonna disappear wether eren did the Rumbling or not. That’s a consistent theme of the story. That human conflict will never disappear. but The Rumbling is ONE of the solutions provided by the story itself also if the genocide for the rest of the world was successful then Paradis will have no enemies for even thousands of years Someone trying to do something in a story doesn't mean the story approves of that thing. Yes eren thought genocide was an option and some crazy people like flock and the yeagerists agreed but the story explicitly goes out of its way to show their in the wrong. So no it doesn’t support genocide. And dude did you even read the story? Paradi was on tract to have a full blown civil war even had eren succeeded and this was called out by several characters you including most of the surviving main characters and that asian lady who straight up says killing everyone won’t end conflict your just making the world smaller. Even had the rumbling succeeded the people of paradi would have eventually started killing each other. This is one of the core story themes of the work. and did you read the final chapter of the manga? Historia united the whole Paradis to become a Military State and shouting that motto of Eren "if they do not win or fight then they will lose and die" and Eren himself said the rest of the world will not be able to make war with Paradis for decades because the Rumbling is 80% done on humanity so obviously the fans of Eren and The Rumbling will say why not Eren did 100% of the Rumbling for the rest of the world i do not know how this simple thoughts gets overlook by you dont be a blind fanboy The island United because they were high on a “victory”/martyrdom of eren but that unity didn’t make everyone happy and the country wasn’t stable. Eventually they’d start in fighting. Just look at the date of the island earlier in the series for proof of that. They genuinely believes they were the only humans on earth and they even had a common enemy in the Titans and yet they were killing each other all the time. Killing everyone would not have made the island eternally peaceful. Do you not know how countries work? Fans of eren wanting him to have killed everyone doesn't mean the story supports genocide. Fans do not define a story. The story never once says genocide is acceptable and in fact even eren the perpetrator of said genocide goes out of his way to say that his actions are unjustifiable and unforgivable. You are looking for ways to say the story promotes something it doesn't to justify your outrage rather than basing your response on what actually is shown. "thank you for being a mass murderer for us Eren" - Armin and no matter what other translation or words they replace it with the message is clear that Armin is thankful for The Rumbling or Eren that did the genocide damn i know fiction can be interpreted in many ways but youre not even considering how controversial this Rumbling stuff is lol and the fact that many Eren and Yeagerist fans wants The Rumbling to be 100% done on the rest of the world do tell how much they interpret the story message that way He calls it a mistake that same line. He’s thanking eren for caring about them enough to do something that ridiculous for them he isn’t condoning it. If he condoned it he wouldn’t have tried to stop him. What the fans wanted to happen doesn't matter in a discussion of what the story tried to present. It wouldn’t matter if literally every fan wanted the rumbling to succeed if the story tells us it’s not a good thing and shouldn’t happen the story isn’t condoning it just because some fans are. The story tells us over and over that it’s not ok so it’s not condoning it. lol a story is meant to be openly interpreted by its fans wtf are you saying heck the editor and Isayama himself makes excuses for this pro genocide interpretation if you do not want to call it a message youre too bias with your own interpretation Isiyama apolofized for not getting his message across clearly enough which is why people like you think it was pro genocide not for actually having the story be pro genocide, He never did that. Also fans wanting eren to have killed everyone because their edgy isn’t the same thing as the story telling them he should have killed everyone. and that is the thing Isayama has not made it clear plus Isayama got far right political views anyway so you cannot blame people for interpreting it that way you keep saying Armin is just thankful for Eren for saving them but you cannot deny that they are saved through genocide |
Jun 25, 2021 12:01 PM
#110
deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: no paridis getting attacked in the future doesn’t make the moral eren should have killed everyone. it makes the moral that you’ll never end conflict. Were you really expecting armin to manage to end war forever? Lol, that’s dumb and you know the chapter ends with someone finding the tree so clearly not everyone on the island is dead.Nobody5464 said: deg said: except it wasn’t pro genocide. Arjun thanks eren yes but he calls erens actions a mistake and stops him from finishing them. He was more thanking him for caring about them so much. And the message isn’t that eren should have killed everyone it’s that conflict won’t ever disappear.for me i just hate the pro-genocide message of the finale especially the extra 8 pages showing that the consequence of not doing The Rumbling all the way leads to the destruction of Paradis centuries later anyway as for Ymir she is still a mystery i think what she revealed about her past to Eren and Mikasa are different like we saw Ymir fail to save the King on Mikasas revelation while in Eren she got stockholm syndrome the final chapter goes like the consequence of not doing the full Rumbling is the destruction of Paradis a century later so a lot of fans will say Eren should have done the full Rumbling instead aka pro genocide you basically do not understand the genocide message there in the final chapter then, i do not know how much more simple i can word it for you basically genocide becomes a Necessary Evil for either paradis or his friends to live long No nothing about the ending makes genocide necessary. Literally every character in the entire story agrees there had to be different ways to handle this and also that even if there actually wasn’t genocide would still be wrong. That’s why they stop him. Paradis getting involved in a war a century or more later after they stop him doesn't in any way make stopping him the wrong choice. That’s nonsense. You can never stop conflict and that was a running theme in the story. It was even pointed out that even if eren had succeeded eventually paradis would just start having civil wars and killing each other anyway. Nothing stops conflict. So no conflict still being around at the end doesn't send the message that genocide is right. dude The Rumbling is Genocide its that simple wtf and youre telling me Genocide is not necessary here in the story when Eren decided its needed and the story ending justifies The Rumbling whether 80% or full Rumbling Eren was specifically shown as being in the wrong for doing it and was killed to stop it. And no war not ceasing to exist dosent equal the rumbling was necessary. Conflict was never gonna disappear wether eren did the Rumbling or not. That’s a consistent theme of the story. That human conflict will never disappear. but The Rumbling is ONE of the solutions provided by the story itself also if the genocide for the rest of the world was successful then Paradis will have no enemies for even thousands of years Someone trying to do something in a story doesn't mean the story approves of that thing. Yes eren thought genocide was an option and some crazy people like flock and the yeagerists agreed but the story explicitly goes out of its way to show their in the wrong. So no it doesn’t support genocide. And dude did you even read the story? Paradi was on tract to have a full blown civil war even had eren succeeded and this was called out by several characters you including most of the surviving main characters and that asian lady who straight up says killing everyone won’t end conflict your just making the world smaller. Even had the rumbling succeeded the people of paradi would have eventually started killing each other. This is one of the core story themes of the work. and did you read the final chapter of the manga? Historia united the whole Paradis to become a Military State and shouting that motto of Eren "if they do not win or fight then they will lose and die" and Eren himself said the rest of the world will not be able to make war with Paradis for decades because the Rumbling is 80% done on humanity so obviously the fans of Eren and The Rumbling will say why not Eren did 100% of the Rumbling for the rest of the world i do not know how this simple thoughts gets overlook by you dont be a blind fanboy The island United because they were high on a “victory”/martyrdom of eren but that unity didn’t make everyone happy and the country wasn’t stable. Eventually they’d start in fighting. Just look at the date of the island earlier in the series for proof of that. They genuinely believes they were the only humans on earth and they even had a common enemy in the Titans and yet they were killing each other all the time. Killing everyone would not have made the island eternally peaceful. Do you not know how countries work? Fans of eren wanting him to have killed everyone doesn't mean the story supports genocide. Fans do not define a story. The story never once says genocide is acceptable and in fact even eren the perpetrator of said genocide goes out of his way to say that his actions are unjustifiable and unforgivable. You are looking for ways to say the story promotes something it doesn't to justify your outrage rather than basing your response on what actually is shown. "thank you for being a mass murderer for us Eren" - Armin and no matter what other translation or words they replace it with the message is clear that Armin is thankful for The Rumbling or Eren that did the genocide damn i know fiction can be interpreted in many ways but youre not even considering how controversial this Rumbling stuff is lol and the fact that many Eren and Yeagerist fans wants The Rumbling to be 100% done on the rest of the world do tell how much they interpret the story message that way He calls it a mistake that same line. He’s thanking eren for caring about them enough to do something that ridiculous for them he isn’t condoning it. If he condoned it he wouldn’t have tried to stop him. What the fans wanted to happen doesn't matter in a discussion of what the story tried to present. It wouldn’t matter if literally every fan wanted the rumbling to succeed if the story tells us it’s not a good thing and shouldn’t happen the story isn’t condoning it just because some fans are. The story tells us over and over that it’s not ok so it’s not condoning it. lol a story is meant to be openly interpreted by its fans wtf are you saying heck the editor and Isayama himself makes excuses for this pro genocide interpretation if you do not want to call it a message youre too bias with your own interpretation Isiyama apolofized for not getting his message across clearly enough which is why people like you think it was pro genocide not for actually having the story be pro genocide, He never did that. Also fans wanting eren to have killed everyone because their edgy isn’t the same thing as the story telling them he should have killed everyone. and that is the thing Isayama has not made it clear plus Isayama got far right political views anyway so you cannot blame people for interpreting it that way you keep saying Armin is just thankful for Eren for saving them but you cannot deny that they are saved through genocide Armin is thankful eren cares about them so much and knows now he won’t be able to stop 80% of people from dying only stop 100% from dying so he thanks eren for caring and promises not to waste the opportunity erens colossal mistake will give him. |
Jun 25, 2021 12:18 PM
#111
Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: no paridis getting attacked in the future doesn’t make the moral eren should have killed everyone. it makes the moral that you’ll never end conflict. Were you really expecting armin to manage to end war forever? Lol, that’s dumb and you know the chapter ends with someone finding the tree so clearly not everyone on the island is dead.Nobody5464 said: deg said: except it wasn’t pro genocide. Arjun thanks eren yes but he calls erens actions a mistake and stops him from finishing them. He was more thanking him for caring about them so much. And the message isn’t that eren should have killed everyone it’s that conflict won’t ever disappear.for me i just hate the pro-genocide message of the finale especially the extra 8 pages showing that the consequence of not doing The Rumbling all the way leads to the destruction of Paradis centuries later anyway as for Ymir she is still a mystery i think what she revealed about her past to Eren and Mikasa are different like we saw Ymir fail to save the King on Mikasas revelation while in Eren she got stockholm syndrome the final chapter goes like the consequence of not doing the full Rumbling is the destruction of Paradis a century later so a lot of fans will say Eren should have done the full Rumbling instead aka pro genocide you basically do not understand the genocide message there in the final chapter then, i do not know how much more simple i can word it for you basically genocide becomes a Necessary Evil for either paradis or his friends to live long No nothing about the ending makes genocide necessary. Literally every character in the entire story agrees there had to be different ways to handle this and also that even if there actually wasn’t genocide would still be wrong. That’s why they stop him. Paradis getting involved in a war a century or more later after they stop him doesn't in any way make stopping him the wrong choice. That’s nonsense. You can never stop conflict and that was a running theme in the story. It was even pointed out that even if eren had succeeded eventually paradis would just start having civil wars and killing each other anyway. Nothing stops conflict. So no conflict still being around at the end doesn't send the message that genocide is right. dude The Rumbling is Genocide its that simple wtf and youre telling me Genocide is not necessary here in the story when Eren decided its needed and the story ending justifies The Rumbling whether 80% or full Rumbling Eren was specifically shown as being in the wrong for doing it and was killed to stop it. And no war not ceasing to exist dosent equal the rumbling was necessary. Conflict was never gonna disappear wether eren did the Rumbling or not. That’s a consistent theme of the story. That human conflict will never disappear. but The Rumbling is ONE of the solutions provided by the story itself also if the genocide for the rest of the world was successful then Paradis will have no enemies for even thousands of years Someone trying to do something in a story doesn't mean the story approves of that thing. Yes eren thought genocide was an option and some crazy people like flock and the yeagerists agreed but the story explicitly goes out of its way to show their in the wrong. So no it doesn’t support genocide. And dude did you even read the story? Paradi was on tract to have a full blown civil war even had eren succeeded and this was called out by several characters you including most of the surviving main characters and that asian lady who straight up says killing everyone won’t end conflict your just making the world smaller. Even had the rumbling succeeded the people of paradi would have eventually started killing each other. This is one of the core story themes of the work. and did you read the final chapter of the manga? Historia united the whole Paradis to become a Military State and shouting that motto of Eren "if they do not win or fight then they will lose and die" and Eren himself said the rest of the world will not be able to make war with Paradis for decades because the Rumbling is 80% done on humanity so obviously the fans of Eren and The Rumbling will say why not Eren did 100% of the Rumbling for the rest of the world i do not know how this simple thoughts gets overlook by you dont be a blind fanboy The island United because they were high on a “victory”/martyrdom of eren but that unity didn’t make everyone happy and the country wasn’t stable. Eventually they’d start in fighting. Just look at the date of the island earlier in the series for proof of that. They genuinely believes they were the only humans on earth and they even had a common enemy in the Titans and yet they were killing each other all the time. Killing everyone would not have made the island eternally peaceful. Do you not know how countries work? Fans of eren wanting him to have killed everyone doesn't mean the story supports genocide. Fans do not define a story. The story never once says genocide is acceptable and in fact even eren the perpetrator of said genocide goes out of his way to say that his actions are unjustifiable and unforgivable. You are looking for ways to say the story promotes something it doesn't to justify your outrage rather than basing your response on what actually is shown. "thank you for being a mass murderer for us Eren" - Armin and no matter what other translation or words they replace it with the message is clear that Armin is thankful for The Rumbling or Eren that did the genocide damn i know fiction can be interpreted in many ways but youre not even considering how controversial this Rumbling stuff is lol and the fact that many Eren and Yeagerist fans wants The Rumbling to be 100% done on the rest of the world do tell how much they interpret the story message that way He calls it a mistake that same line. He’s thanking eren for caring about them enough to do something that ridiculous for them he isn’t condoning it. If he condoned it he wouldn’t have tried to stop him. What the fans wanted to happen doesn't matter in a discussion of what the story tried to present. It wouldn’t matter if literally every fan wanted the rumbling to succeed if the story tells us it’s not a good thing and shouldn’t happen the story isn’t condoning it just because some fans are. The story tells us over and over that it’s not ok so it’s not condoning it. lol a story is meant to be openly interpreted by its fans wtf are you saying heck the editor and Isayama himself makes excuses for this pro genocide interpretation if you do not want to call it a message youre too bias with your own interpretation Isiyama apolofized for not getting his message across clearly enough which is why people like you think it was pro genocide not for actually having the story be pro genocide, He never did that. Also fans wanting eren to have killed everyone because their edgy isn’t the same thing as the story telling them he should have killed everyone. and that is the thing Isayama has not made it clear plus Isayama got far right political views anyway so you cannot blame people for interpreting it that way you keep saying Armin is just thankful for Eren for saving them but you cannot deny that they are saved through genocide Armin is thankful eren cares about them so much and knows now he won’t be able to stop 80% of people from dying only stop 100% from dying so he thanks eren for caring and promises not to waste the opportunity erens colossal mistake will give him. sure that is your own interpretation youre denying they are saved through genocide big time and replace it with the words "colossal mistake" lol you cannot even properly say colossal titans aka the rumbling ever heard of the saying "hate the sin and not the sinner?" that is what Armin is trying to do here he knows too that genocide is wrong but its what saved them so genocide here becomes a necessary evil you even ignored the far right political views of Isayama too so im tired already with talking with you about this, thats all for me |
Jun 25, 2021 2:32 PM
#112
deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: no paridis getting attacked in the future doesn’t make the moral eren should have killed everyone. it makes the moral that you’ll never end conflict. Were you really expecting armin to manage to end war forever? Lol, that’s dumb and you know the chapter ends with someone finding the tree so clearly not everyone on the island is dead.Nobody5464 said: deg said: except it wasn’t pro genocide. Arjun thanks eren yes but he calls erens actions a mistake and stops him from finishing them. He was more thanking him for caring about them so much. And the message isn’t that eren should have killed everyone it’s that conflict won’t ever disappear.for me i just hate the pro-genocide message of the finale especially the extra 8 pages showing that the consequence of not doing The Rumbling all the way leads to the destruction of Paradis centuries later anyway as for Ymir she is still a mystery i think what she revealed about her past to Eren and Mikasa are different like we saw Ymir fail to save the King on Mikasas revelation while in Eren she got stockholm syndrome the final chapter goes like the consequence of not doing the full Rumbling is the destruction of Paradis a century later so a lot of fans will say Eren should have done the full Rumbling instead aka pro genocide you basically do not understand the genocide message there in the final chapter then, i do not know how much more simple i can word it for you basically genocide becomes a Necessary Evil for either paradis or his friends to live long No nothing about the ending makes genocide necessary. Literally every character in the entire story agrees there had to be different ways to handle this and also that even if there actually wasn’t genocide would still be wrong. That’s why they stop him. Paradis getting involved in a war a century or more later after they stop him doesn't in any way make stopping him the wrong choice. That’s nonsense. You can never stop conflict and that was a running theme in the story. It was even pointed out that even if eren had succeeded eventually paradis would just start having civil wars and killing each other anyway. Nothing stops conflict. So no conflict still being around at the end doesn't send the message that genocide is right. dude The Rumbling is Genocide its that simple wtf and youre telling me Genocide is not necessary here in the story when Eren decided its needed and the story ending justifies The Rumbling whether 80% or full Rumbling Eren was specifically shown as being in the wrong for doing it and was killed to stop it. And no war not ceasing to exist dosent equal the rumbling was necessary. Conflict was never gonna disappear wether eren did the Rumbling or not. That’s a consistent theme of the story. That human conflict will never disappear. but The Rumbling is ONE of the solutions provided by the story itself also if the genocide for the rest of the world was successful then Paradis will have no enemies for even thousands of years Someone trying to do something in a story doesn't mean the story approves of that thing. Yes eren thought genocide was an option and some crazy people like flock and the yeagerists agreed but the story explicitly goes out of its way to show their in the wrong. So no it doesn’t support genocide. And dude did you even read the story? Paradi was on tract to have a full blown civil war even had eren succeeded and this was called out by several characters you including most of the surviving main characters and that asian lady who straight up says killing everyone won’t end conflict your just making the world smaller. Even had the rumbling succeeded the people of paradi would have eventually started killing each other. This is one of the core story themes of the work. and did you read the final chapter of the manga? Historia united the whole Paradis to become a Military State and shouting that motto of Eren "if they do not win or fight then they will lose and die" and Eren himself said the rest of the world will not be able to make war with Paradis for decades because the Rumbling is 80% done on humanity so obviously the fans of Eren and The Rumbling will say why not Eren did 100% of the Rumbling for the rest of the world i do not know how this simple thoughts gets overlook by you dont be a blind fanboy The island United because they were high on a “victory”/martyrdom of eren but that unity didn’t make everyone happy and the country wasn’t stable. Eventually they’d start in fighting. Just look at the date of the island earlier in the series for proof of that. They genuinely believes they were the only humans on earth and they even had a common enemy in the Titans and yet they were killing each other all the time. Killing everyone would not have made the island eternally peaceful. Do you not know how countries work? Fans of eren wanting him to have killed everyone doesn't mean the story supports genocide. Fans do not define a story. The story never once says genocide is acceptable and in fact even eren the perpetrator of said genocide goes out of his way to say that his actions are unjustifiable and unforgivable. You are looking for ways to say the story promotes something it doesn't to justify your outrage rather than basing your response on what actually is shown. "thank you for being a mass murderer for us Eren" - Armin and no matter what other translation or words they replace it with the message is clear that Armin is thankful for The Rumbling or Eren that did the genocide damn i know fiction can be interpreted in many ways but youre not even considering how controversial this Rumbling stuff is lol and the fact that many Eren and Yeagerist fans wants The Rumbling to be 100% done on the rest of the world do tell how much they interpret the story message that way He calls it a mistake that same line. He’s thanking eren for caring about them enough to do something that ridiculous for them he isn’t condoning it. If he condoned it he wouldn’t have tried to stop him. What the fans wanted to happen doesn't matter in a discussion of what the story tried to present. It wouldn’t matter if literally every fan wanted the rumbling to succeed if the story tells us it’s not a good thing and shouldn’t happen the story isn’t condoning it just because some fans are. The story tells us over and over that it’s not ok so it’s not condoning it. lol a story is meant to be openly interpreted by its fans wtf are you saying heck the editor and Isayama himself makes excuses for this pro genocide interpretation if you do not want to call it a message youre too bias with your own interpretation Isiyama apolofized for not getting his message across clearly enough which is why people like you think it was pro genocide not for actually having the story be pro genocide, He never did that. Also fans wanting eren to have killed everyone because their edgy isn’t the same thing as the story telling them he should have killed everyone. and that is the thing Isayama has not made it clear plus Isayama got far right political views anyway so you cannot blame people for interpreting it that way you keep saying Armin is just thankful for Eren for saving them but you cannot deny that they are saved through genocide Armin is thankful eren cares about them so much and knows now he won’t be able to stop 80% of people from dying only stop 100% from dying so he thanks eren for caring and promises not to waste the opportunity erens colossal mistake will give him. sure that is your own interpretation youre denying they are saved through genocide big time and replace it with the words "colossal mistake" lol you cannot even properly say colossal titans aka the rumbling ever heard of the saying "hate the sin and not the sinner?" that is what Armin is trying to do here he knows too that genocide is wrong but its what saved them so genocide here becomes a necessary evil you even ignored the far right political views of Isayama too so im tired already with talking with you about this, thats all for me deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: no paridis getting attacked in the future doesn’t make the moral eren should have killed everyone. it makes the moral that you’ll never end conflict. Were you really expecting armin to manage to end war forever? Lol, that’s dumb and you know the chapter ends with someone finding the tree so clearly not everyone on the island is dead.Nobody5464 said: deg said: except it wasn’t pro genocide. Arjun thanks eren yes but he calls erens actions a mistake and stops him from finishing them. He was more thanking him for caring about them so much. And the message isn’t that eren should have killed everyone it’s that conflict won’t ever disappear.for me i just hate the pro-genocide message of the finale especially the extra 8 pages showing that the consequence of not doing The Rumbling all the way leads to the destruction of Paradis centuries later anyway as for Ymir she is still a mystery i think what she revealed about her past to Eren and Mikasa are different like we saw Ymir fail to save the King on Mikasas revelation while in Eren she got stockholm syndrome the final chapter goes like the consequence of not doing the full Rumbling is the destruction of Paradis a century later so a lot of fans will say Eren should have done the full Rumbling instead aka pro genocide you basically do not understand the genocide message there in the final chapter then, i do not know how much more simple i can word it for you basically genocide becomes a Necessary Evil for either paradis or his friends to live long No nothing about the ending makes genocide necessary. Literally every character in the entire story agrees there had to be different ways to handle this and also that even if there actually wasn’t genocide would still be wrong. That’s why they stop him. Paradis getting involved in a war a century or more later after they stop him doesn't in any way make stopping him the wrong choice. That’s nonsense. You can never stop conflict and that was a running theme in the story. It was even pointed out that even if eren had succeeded eventually paradis would just start having civil wars and killing each other anyway. Nothing stops conflict. So no conflict still being around at the end doesn't send the message that genocide is right. dude The Rumbling is Genocide its that simple wtf and youre telling me Genocide is not necessary here in the story when Eren decided its needed and the story ending justifies The Rumbling whether 80% or full Rumbling Eren was specifically shown as being in the wrong for doing it and was killed to stop it. And no war not ceasing to exist dosent equal the rumbling was necessary. Conflict was never gonna disappear wether eren did the Rumbling or not. That’s a consistent theme of the story. That human conflict will never disappear. but The Rumbling is ONE of the solutions provided by the story itself also if the genocide for the rest of the world was successful then Paradis will have no enemies for even thousands of years Someone trying to do something in a story doesn't mean the story approves of that thing. Yes eren thought genocide was an option and some crazy people like flock and the yeagerists agreed but the story explicitly goes out of its way to show their in the wrong. So no it doesn’t support genocide. And dude did you even read the story? Paradi was on tract to have a full blown civil war even had eren succeeded and this was called out by several characters you including most of the surviving main characters and that asian lady who straight up says killing everyone won’t end conflict your just making the world smaller. Even had the rumbling succeeded the people of paradi would have eventually started killing each other. This is one of the core story themes of the work. and did you read the final chapter of the manga? Historia united the whole Paradis to become a Military State and shouting that motto of Eren "if they do not win or fight then they will lose and die" and Eren himself said the rest of the world will not be able to make war with Paradis for decades because the Rumbling is 80% done on humanity so obviously the fans of Eren and The Rumbling will say why not Eren did 100% of the Rumbling for the rest of the world i do not know how this simple thoughts gets overlook by you dont be a blind fanboy The island United because they were high on a “victory”/martyrdom of eren but that unity didn’t make everyone happy and the country wasn’t stable. Eventually they’d start in fighting. Just look at the date of the island earlier in the series for proof of that. They genuinely believes they were the only humans on earth and they even had a common enemy in the Titans and yet they were killing each other all the time. Killing everyone would not have made the island eternally peaceful. Do you not know how countries work? Fans of eren wanting him to have killed everyone doesn't mean the story supports genocide. Fans do not define a story. The story never once says genocide is acceptable and in fact even eren the perpetrator of said genocide goes out of his way to say that his actions are unjustifiable and unforgivable. You are looking for ways to say the story promotes something it doesn't to justify your outrage rather than basing your response on what actually is shown. "thank you for being a mass murderer for us Eren" - Armin and no matter what other translation or words they replace it with the message is clear that Armin is thankful for The Rumbling or Eren that did the genocide damn i know fiction can be interpreted in many ways but youre not even considering how controversial this Rumbling stuff is lol and the fact that many Eren and Yeagerist fans wants The Rumbling to be 100% done on the rest of the world do tell how much they interpret the story message that way He calls it a mistake that same line. He’s thanking eren for caring about them enough to do something that ridiculous for them he isn’t condoning it. If he condoned it he wouldn’t have tried to stop him. What the fans wanted to happen doesn't matter in a discussion of what the story tried to present. It wouldn’t matter if literally every fan wanted the rumbling to succeed if the story tells us it’s not a good thing and shouldn’t happen the story isn’t condoning it just because some fans are. The story tells us over and over that it’s not ok so it’s not condoning it. lol a story is meant to be openly interpreted by its fans wtf are you saying heck the editor and Isayama himself makes excuses for this pro genocide interpretation if you do not want to call it a message youre too bias with your own interpretation Isiyama apolofized for not getting his message across clearly enough which is why people like you think it was pro genocide not for actually having the story be pro genocide, He never did that. Also fans wanting eren to have killed everyone because their edgy isn’t the same thing as the story telling them he should have killed everyone. and that is the thing Isayama has not made it clear plus Isayama got far right political views anyway so you cannot blame people for interpreting it that way you keep saying Armin is just thankful for Eren for saving them but you cannot deny that they are saved through genocide Armin is thankful eren cares about them so much and knows now he won’t be able to stop 80% of people from dying only stop 100% from dying so he thanks eren for caring and promises not to waste the opportunity erens colossal mistake will give him. sure that is your own interpretation youre denying they are saved through genocide big time and replace it with the words "colossal mistake" lol you cannot even properly say colossal titans aka the rumbling ever heard of the saying "hate the sin and not the sinner?" that is what Armin is trying to do here he knows too that genocide is wrong but its what saved them so genocide here becomes a necessary evil you even ignored the far right political views of Isayama too so im tired already with talking with you about this, thats all for me With all due respect, thats no novelty. the alliance were hipocrites that wanted the results even if half assed, but not the means. It was impossible for them to "win" and not reap anything from erens deeds. Thats exactly what the yeagerist had been vocal for years, either genocide was framed superficially but actually praised in a meta narrative way (alliance win), or it was framed alongside the world as an horrible outcome seeked by a objectively terrible world, no matter if it superficially seemed otherwise (ANR). Every other mid ground, like the alliance being killed either by the rest of the world or executed by the island after finishing eren, would conduce to paradis extinctiond and thus genocide being uphold passively once again. |
Jun 25, 2021 2:43 PM
#113
Vinicius234 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: no paridis getting attacked in the future doesn’t make the moral eren should have killed everyone. it makes the moral that you’ll never end conflict. Were you really expecting armin to manage to end war forever? Lol, that’s dumb and you know the chapter ends with someone finding the tree so clearly not everyone on the island is dead.Nobody5464 said: deg said: except it wasn’t pro genocide. Arjun thanks eren yes but he calls erens actions a mistake and stops him from finishing them. He was more thanking him for caring about them so much. And the message isn’t that eren should have killed everyone it’s that conflict won’t ever disappear.for me i just hate the pro-genocide message of the finale especially the extra 8 pages showing that the consequence of not doing The Rumbling all the way leads to the destruction of Paradis centuries later anyway as for Ymir she is still a mystery i think what she revealed about her past to Eren and Mikasa are different like we saw Ymir fail to save the King on Mikasas revelation while in Eren she got stockholm syndrome the final chapter goes like the consequence of not doing the full Rumbling is the destruction of Paradis a century later so a lot of fans will say Eren should have done the full Rumbling instead aka pro genocide you basically do not understand the genocide message there in the final chapter then, i do not know how much more simple i can word it for you basically genocide becomes a Necessary Evil for either paradis or his friends to live long No nothing about the ending makes genocide necessary. Literally every character in the entire story agrees there had to be different ways to handle this and also that even if there actually wasn’t genocide would still be wrong. That’s why they stop him. Paradis getting involved in a war a century or more later after they stop him doesn't in any way make stopping him the wrong choice. That’s nonsense. You can never stop conflict and that was a running theme in the story. It was even pointed out that even if eren had succeeded eventually paradis would just start having civil wars and killing each other anyway. Nothing stops conflict. So no conflict still being around at the end doesn't send the message that genocide is right. dude The Rumbling is Genocide its that simple wtf and youre telling me Genocide is not necessary here in the story when Eren decided its needed and the story ending justifies The Rumbling whether 80% or full Rumbling Eren was specifically shown as being in the wrong for doing it and was killed to stop it. And no war not ceasing to exist dosent equal the rumbling was necessary. Conflict was never gonna disappear wether eren did the Rumbling or not. That’s a consistent theme of the story. That human conflict will never disappear. but The Rumbling is ONE of the solutions provided by the story itself also if the genocide for the rest of the world was successful then Paradis will have no enemies for even thousands of years Someone trying to do something in a story doesn't mean the story approves of that thing. Yes eren thought genocide was an option and some crazy people like flock and the yeagerists agreed but the story explicitly goes out of its way to show their in the wrong. So no it doesn’t support genocide. And dude did you even read the story? Paradi was on tract to have a full blown civil war even had eren succeeded and this was called out by several characters you including most of the surviving main characters and that asian lady who straight up says killing everyone won’t end conflict your just making the world smaller. Even had the rumbling succeeded the people of paradi would have eventually started killing each other. This is one of the core story themes of the work. and did you read the final chapter of the manga? Historia united the whole Paradis to become a Military State and shouting that motto of Eren "if they do not win or fight then they will lose and die" and Eren himself said the rest of the world will not be able to make war with Paradis for decades because the Rumbling is 80% done on humanity so obviously the fans of Eren and The Rumbling will say why not Eren did 100% of the Rumbling for the rest of the world i do not know how this simple thoughts gets overlook by you dont be a blind fanboy The island United because they were high on a “victory”/martyrdom of eren but that unity didn’t make everyone happy and the country wasn’t stable. Eventually they’d start in fighting. Just look at the date of the island earlier in the series for proof of that. They genuinely believes they were the only humans on earth and they even had a common enemy in the Titans and yet they were killing each other all the time. Killing everyone would not have made the island eternally peaceful. Do you not know how countries work? Fans of eren wanting him to have killed everyone doesn't mean the story supports genocide. Fans do not define a story. The story never once says genocide is acceptable and in fact even eren the perpetrator of said genocide goes out of his way to say that his actions are unjustifiable and unforgivable. You are looking for ways to say the story promotes something it doesn't to justify your outrage rather than basing your response on what actually is shown. "thank you for being a mass murderer for us Eren" - Armin and no matter what other translation or words they replace it with the message is clear that Armin is thankful for The Rumbling or Eren that did the genocide damn i know fiction can be interpreted in many ways but youre not even considering how controversial this Rumbling stuff is lol and the fact that many Eren and Yeagerist fans wants The Rumbling to be 100% done on the rest of the world do tell how much they interpret the story message that way He calls it a mistake that same line. He’s thanking eren for caring about them enough to do something that ridiculous for them he isn’t condoning it. If he condoned it he wouldn’t have tried to stop him. What the fans wanted to happen doesn't matter in a discussion of what the story tried to present. It wouldn’t matter if literally every fan wanted the rumbling to succeed if the story tells us it’s not a good thing and shouldn’t happen the story isn’t condoning it just because some fans are. The story tells us over and over that it’s not ok so it’s not condoning it. lol a story is meant to be openly interpreted by its fans wtf are you saying heck the editor and Isayama himself makes excuses for this pro genocide interpretation if you do not want to call it a message youre too bias with your own interpretation Isiyama apolofized for not getting his message across clearly enough which is why people like you think it was pro genocide not for actually having the story be pro genocide, He never did that. Also fans wanting eren to have killed everyone because their edgy isn’t the same thing as the story telling them he should have killed everyone. and that is the thing Isayama has not made it clear plus Isayama got far right political views anyway so you cannot blame people for interpreting it that way you keep saying Armin is just thankful for Eren for saving them but you cannot deny that they are saved through genocide Armin is thankful eren cares about them so much and knows now he won’t be able to stop 80% of people from dying only stop 100% from dying so he thanks eren for caring and promises not to waste the opportunity erens colossal mistake will give him. sure that is your own interpretation youre denying they are saved through genocide big time and replace it with the words "colossal mistake" lol you cannot even properly say colossal titans aka the rumbling ever heard of the saying "hate the sin and not the sinner?" that is what Armin is trying to do here he knows too that genocide is wrong but its what saved them so genocide here becomes a necessary evil you even ignored the far right political views of Isayama too so im tired already with talking with you about this, thats all for me deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: Nobody5464 said: deg said: no paridis getting attacked in the future doesn’t make the moral eren should have killed everyone. it makes the moral that you’ll never end conflict. Were you really expecting armin to manage to end war forever? Lol, that’s dumb and you know the chapter ends with someone finding the tree so clearly not everyone on the island is dead.Nobody5464 said: deg said: except it wasn’t pro genocide. Arjun thanks eren yes but he calls erens actions a mistake and stops him from finishing them. He was more thanking him for caring about them so much. And the message isn’t that eren should have killed everyone it’s that conflict won’t ever disappear.for me i just hate the pro-genocide message of the finale especially the extra 8 pages showing that the consequence of not doing The Rumbling all the way leads to the destruction of Paradis centuries later anyway as for Ymir she is still a mystery i think what she revealed about her past to Eren and Mikasa are different like we saw Ymir fail to save the King on Mikasas revelation while in Eren she got stockholm syndrome the final chapter goes like the consequence of not doing the full Rumbling is the destruction of Paradis a century later so a lot of fans will say Eren should have done the full Rumbling instead aka pro genocide you basically do not understand the genocide message there in the final chapter then, i do not know how much more simple i can word it for you basically genocide becomes a Necessary Evil for either paradis or his friends to live long No nothing about the ending makes genocide necessary. Literally every character in the entire story agrees there had to be different ways to handle this and also that even if there actually wasn’t genocide would still be wrong. That’s why they stop him. Paradis getting involved in a war a century or more later after they stop him doesn't in any way make stopping him the wrong choice. That’s nonsense. You can never stop conflict and that was a running theme in the story. It was even pointed out that even if eren had succeeded eventually paradis would just start having civil wars and killing each other anyway. Nothing stops conflict. So no conflict still being around at the end doesn't send the message that genocide is right. dude The Rumbling is Genocide its that simple wtf and youre telling me Genocide is not necessary here in the story when Eren decided its needed and the story ending justifies The Rumbling whether 80% or full Rumbling Eren was specifically shown as being in the wrong for doing it and was killed to stop it. And no war not ceasing to exist dosent equal the rumbling was necessary. Conflict was never gonna disappear wether eren did the Rumbling or not. That’s a consistent theme of the story. That human conflict will never disappear. but The Rumbling is ONE of the solutions provided by the story itself also if the genocide for the rest of the world was successful then Paradis will have no enemies for even thousands of years Someone trying to do something in a story doesn't mean the story approves of that thing. Yes eren thought genocide was an option and some crazy people like flock and the yeagerists agreed but the story explicitly goes out of its way to show their in the wrong. So no it doesn’t support genocide. And dude did you even read the story? Paradi was on tract to have a full blown civil war even had eren succeeded and this was called out by several characters you including most of the surviving main characters and that asian lady who straight up says killing everyone won’t end conflict your just making the world smaller. Even had the rumbling succeeded the people of paradi would have eventually started killing each other. This is one of the core story themes of the work. and did you read the final chapter of the manga? Historia united the whole Paradis to become a Military State and shouting that motto of Eren "if they do not win or fight then they will lose and die" and Eren himself said the rest of the world will not be able to make war with Paradis for decades because the Rumbling is 80% done on humanity so obviously the fans of Eren and The Rumbling will say why not Eren did 100% of the Rumbling for the rest of the world i do not know how this simple thoughts gets overlook by you dont be a blind fanboy The island United because they were high on a “victory”/martyrdom of eren but that unity didn’t make everyone happy and the country wasn’t stable. Eventually they’d start in fighting. Just look at the date of the island earlier in the series for proof of that. They genuinely believes they were the only humans on earth and they even had a common enemy in the Titans and yet they were killing each other all the time. Killing everyone would not have made the island eternally peaceful. Do you not know how countries work? Fans of eren wanting him to have killed everyone doesn't mean the story supports genocide. Fans do not define a story. The story never once says genocide is acceptable and in fact even eren the perpetrator of said genocide goes out of his way to say that his actions are unjustifiable and unforgivable. You are looking for ways to say the story promotes something it doesn't to justify your outrage rather than basing your response on what actually is shown. "thank you for being a mass murderer for us Eren" - Armin and no matter what other translation or words they replace it with the message is clear that Armin is thankful for The Rumbling or Eren that did the genocide damn i know fiction can be interpreted in many ways but youre not even considering how controversial this Rumbling stuff is lol and the fact that many Eren and Yeagerist fans wants The Rumbling to be 100% done on the rest of the world do tell how much they interpret the story message that way He calls it a mistake that same line. He’s thanking eren for caring about them enough to do something that ridiculous for them he isn’t condoning it. If he condoned it he wouldn’t have tried to stop him. What the fans wanted to happen doesn't matter in a discussion of what the story tried to present. It wouldn’t matter if literally every fan wanted the rumbling to succeed if the story tells us it’s not a good thing and shouldn’t happen the story isn’t condoning it just because some fans are. The story tells us over and over that it’s not ok so it’s not condoning it. lol a story is meant to be openly interpreted by its fans wtf are you saying heck the editor and Isayama himself makes excuses for this pro genocide interpretation if you do not want to call it a message youre too bias with your own interpretation Isiyama apolofized for not getting his message across clearly enough which is why people like you think it was pro genocide not for actually having the story be pro genocide, He never did that. Also fans wanting eren to have killed everyone because their edgy isn’t the same thing as the story telling them he should have killed everyone. and that is the thing Isayama has not made it clear plus Isayama got far right political views anyway so you cannot blame people for interpreting it that way you keep saying Armin is just thankful for Eren for saving them but you cannot deny that they are saved through genocide Armin is thankful eren cares about them so much and knows now he won’t be able to stop 80% of people from dying only stop 100% from dying so he thanks eren for caring and promises not to waste the opportunity erens colossal mistake will give him. sure that is your own interpretation youre denying they are saved through genocide big time and replace it with the words "colossal mistake" lol you cannot even properly say colossal titans aka the rumbling ever heard of the saying "hate the sin and not the sinner?" that is what Armin is trying to do here he knows too that genocide is wrong but its what saved them so genocide here becomes a necessary evil you even ignored the far right political views of Isayama too so im tired already with talking with you about this, thats all for me With all due respect, thats no novelty. the alliance were hipocrites that wanted the results even if half assed, but not the means. It was impossible for them to "win" and not reap anything from erens deeds. Thats exactly what the yeagerist had been vocal for years, either genocide was framed superficially but actually praised in a meta narrative way (alliance win), or it was framed alongside the world as an horrible outcome seeked by a objectively terrible world, no matter if it superficially seemed otherwise (ANR). Every other mid ground, like the alliance being killed either by the rest of the world or executed by the island after finishing eren, would conduce to paradis extinctiond and thus genocide being uphold passively once again. and thats the whole point the story justifies genocide as a necessary evil |
Jun 26, 2021 9:55 PM
#114
you have to be braindead to think eren was putting on an act even in his inner monologues. |
I sacrifice |
Jun 27, 2021 6:42 AM
#115
Of course, because of Plotholes plus if I wanted to read a rom-com, I would've already read something else, I didn't want for years for a romcom ending |
“You know, the only thing that matters is the ending. It's the most important part of the story, the ending.” -Johnny Depp - Mort Rainey | Secret Window (2004) And Attack on Titan failed miserably in doing so. Its fate will be the same as Game of Thrones. |
Jun 27, 2021 10:00 AM
#116
BlossomBurst said: I don’t hate it. I’m just disappointed in Eren. He was a complete idiot who achieved a meaningless outcome. Also his goals don’t make any senseI just finished, and though I didn't love the final battle and the weird way no one hated Eren nor care for the little glowing spine worm, but like, what was so bad about it? It worked and was alright, even if it wasn't mindblowing or unexpected. For one, I really liked how Eren failed in the end to end all war by making himself the one shared enemy. Also I really like how Eren's stoic facade falls apart similarly to what happened after Sasha in the airboat, and how the ending makes it so that they don't need titan solutions to human issues, but human solutions (i.e. diplomacy). Even with the extra 8 pages with Ymir and the future adding even more, why do people hate this? edit: also it's cool how titans and the desire for life are intertwined |
Jul 6, 2021 11:51 AM
#117
For me it kind of rendered the whole series meaningless. Its a clusterfuck of bad writing such as pointless plot that doesn't contribute to the main storyline, twist and new revelation that jeopardize whole character development and the Ymir arc is fucking horrible it was like a wuxia novel trash. |
Yata_RangaJul 6, 2021 11:55 AM
Jul 9, 2021 4:49 AM
#118
Because the ending made everything pointless and completely destroyed Eren's character |
Jul 9, 2021 4:53 AM
#119
PeaceForeverMe said: He didn’t fuck the generic blonde waifu. That’s why they hate it. People were just mad because Eren get cucked twice |
Jul 9, 2021 7:05 PM
#120
They’re angry because “muh emo boy.” They’re mad eren wasnt a one dimensional edgelord doing evil for the sake of being an edgy little shit. People like requiem more because it shits on the kind of character eren originally was: a sympathetic villain. He didn’t want to do any of what he was doing but he was bound by the shackles of fate. He even begs Hange for another way because he *doesn’t want to go through with the genocide.* But requiem shits all over that and it becomes erens *choice* to proceed with it rather than his path being paved by the hands of fate. He becomes the shitty fakedeep edgelord people are mad he never was in canon. Sure, the ending wasn’t great but AOT is still going to go down as a classic and it’s still enjoyable all the way through whether or not the ending was what you were expecting. |
Jul 10, 2021 4:59 PM
#121
Just out of curiosity, to anyone who thinks this ending is good, what exactly is "badly written" to you? |
Jul 11, 2021 9:48 AM
#122
Honestly, if you ask me, for a while the manga was going to shit. The development and pacing on things just got weirdddd. And it was trying to do too much. Like, make Eren the villain, fine, but then don't try to pull a Code Geass and it actually turns out that he made himself the villain to 'save' everyone. Also his plan to 'save' Paradis sucked ass. As far as plans go, fairly terrible. There were just a lot of things that didn't need to happen. Not at all. But I just absolutely mad about Isayama trying to redeem his character. Before that point, shit was bad. But it became the worst when that happened. |
Jul 11, 2021 10:19 AM
#123
Ermatica said: They’re angry because “muh emo boy.” They’re mad eren wasnt a one dimensional edgelord doing evil for the sake of being an edgy little shit. People like requiem more because it shits on the kind of character eren originally was: a sympathetic villain. He didn’t want to do any of what he was doing but he was bound by the shackles of fate. He even begs Hange for another way because he *doesn’t want to go through with the genocide.* But requiem shits all over that and it becomes erens *choice* to proceed with it rather than his path being paved by the hands of fate. He becomes the shitty fakedeep edgelord people are mad he never was in canon. Sure, the ending wasn’t great but AOT is still going to go down as a classic and it’s still enjoyable all the way through whether or not the ending was what you were expecting. Sigh lots of people have given their reasons and no it's not just because emo boy didn't win. Literally you can read in this thread why I didn't like it but fanboys going to fanboy and strawman anyone who disagrees with them. Also making it about fate kinda kills a lot of the actual drama once again as it kinda undermines the whole journey of Eren as a character down to I had to do all of this and wasn't influenced by the elements of the story at all. It just makes his whole character cheap which fine but if anything that keeps undermining the quality of the story as a whole. I think FMAB has a vastly better story/end and that was a happy end so again it's not just because I want my EDGE it's just that is how Isayama set the story up to end. If he wanted to avoid that he really needed to do a better job setting up the alliance which he didn't. In the end story ends in a edge fest anyway lol if you count the last chapters it's just not a very good one. Regardless sure AOT might be remembered like Death Note and Naruto in that it was very popular and had influence on the industry but like DN and Naruto I will be surprised if people totally accept that ending as amazing compared to say series that get praise for their endings like Bebop or FMA but again it's all a matter of opinion. |
BilboBaggins365Jul 11, 2021 1:18 PM
Jul 11, 2021 10:47 PM
#124
BilboBaggins365 said: Ermatica said: They’re angry because “muh emo boy.” They’re mad eren wasnt a one dimensional edgelord doing evil for the sake of being an edgy little shit. People like requiem more because it shits on the kind of character eren originally was: a sympathetic villain. He didn’t want to do any of what he was doing but he was bound by the shackles of fate. He even begs Hange for another way because he *doesn’t want to go through with the genocide.* But requiem shits all over that and it becomes erens *choice* to proceed with it rather than his path being paved by the hands of fate. He becomes the shitty fakedeep edgelord people are mad he never was in canon. Sure, the ending wasn’t great but AOT is still going to go down as a classic and it’s still enjoyable all the way through whether or not the ending was what you were expecting. Sigh lots of people have given their reasons and no it's not just because emo boy didn't win. Literally you can read in this thread why I didn't like it but fanboys going to fanboy and strawman anyone who disagrees with them. Also making it about fate kinda kills a lot of the actual drama once again as it kinda undermines the whole journey of Eren as a character down to I had to do all of this and wasn't influenced by the elements of the story at all. It just makes his whole character cheap which fine but if anything that keeps undermining the quality of the story as a whole. I think FMAB has a vastly better story/end and that was a happy end so again it's not just because I want my EDGE it's just that is how Isayama set the story up to end. If he wanted to avoid that he really needed to do a better job setting up the alliance which he didn't. In the end story ends in a edge fest anyway lol if you count the last chapters it's just not a very good one. Regardless sure AOT might be remembered like Death Note and Naruto in that it was very popular and had influence on the industry but like DN and Naruto I will be surprised if people totally accept that ending as amazing compared to say series that get praise for their endings like Bebop or FMA but again it's all a matter of opinion. If you didn’t want the EDGE then I wasn’t referring to you. But I’ve seen too many people dismiss the ending *just* because Eren wasn’t a heartless genocidal edgelord maniac. I’m not a fanboy and I don’t think the ending of the series was godteir but it wasn’t unbearably bad and I think Requiem butchers Erens character as well as the ending more than Isayama did. |
Jul 11, 2021 11:00 PM
#125
Ermatica said: BilboBaggins365 said: Ermatica said: They’re angry because “muh emo boy.” They’re mad eren wasnt a one dimensional edgelord doing evil for the sake of being an edgy little shit. People like requiem more because it shits on the kind of character eren originally was: a sympathetic villain. He didn’t want to do any of what he was doing but he was bound by the shackles of fate. He even begs Hange for another way because he *doesn’t want to go through with the genocide.* But requiem shits all over that and it becomes erens *choice* to proceed with it rather than his path being paved by the hands of fate. He becomes the shitty fakedeep edgelord people are mad he never was in canon. Sure, the ending wasn’t great but AOT is still going to go down as a classic and it’s still enjoyable all the way through whether or not the ending was what you were expecting. Sigh lots of people have given their reasons and no it's not just because emo boy didn't win. Literally you can read in this thread why I didn't like it but fanboys going to fanboy and strawman anyone who disagrees with them. Also making it about fate kinda kills a lot of the actual drama once again as it kinda undermines the whole journey of Eren as a character down to I had to do all of this and wasn't influenced by the elements of the story at all. It just makes his whole character cheap which fine but if anything that keeps undermining the quality of the story as a whole. I think FMAB has a vastly better story/end and that was a happy end so again it's not just because I want my EDGE it's just that is how Isayama set the story up to end. If he wanted to avoid that he really needed to do a better job setting up the alliance which he didn't. In the end story ends in a edge fest anyway lol if you count the last chapters it's just not a very good one. Regardless sure AOT might be remembered like Death Note and Naruto in that it was very popular and had influence on the industry but like DN and Naruto I will be surprised if people totally accept that ending as amazing compared to say series that get praise for their endings like Bebop or FMA but again it's all a matter of opinion. If you didn’t want the EDGE then I wasn’t referring to you. But I’ve seen too many people dismiss the ending *just* because Eren wasn’t a heartless genocidal edgelord maniac. I’m not a fanboy and I don’t think the ending of the series was godteir but it wasn’t unbearably bad and I think Requiem butchers Erens character as well as the ending more than Isayama did. You didn't make any differentiation and again while sure some people just always want edge Isayama didn't help matters. I highly doubt ANR is going to be that well written but having a tragic Eren kills everyone outside the walls ending would have been vastly better than how the current ending is. It keeps his character consistent and the theme of the story as well (going back to what Erwin and Pixis have said). If he wanted to go for more heart warming the world is better off ending he needed to do things differently. He wrote himself into a corner. As annoying as overt Eren fanboys ended up becoming it's not like Isayama didn't cultivate them. |
Jul 12, 2021 12:23 AM
#126
BilboBaggins365 said: The guy you replied is correct on Eren's part about the Anr.Ermatica said: BilboBaggins365 said: Ermatica said: They’re angry because “muh emo boy.” They’re mad eren wasnt a one dimensional edgelord doing evil for the sake of being an edgy little shit. People like requiem more because it shits on the kind of character eren originally was: a sympathetic villain. He didn’t want to do any of what he was doing but he was bound by the shackles of fate. He even begs Hange for another way because he *doesn’t want to go through with the genocide.* But requiem shits all over that and it becomes erens *choice* to proceed with it rather than his path being paved by the hands of fate. He becomes the shitty fakedeep edgelord people are mad he never was in canon. Sure, the ending wasn’t great but AOT is still going to go down as a classic and it’s still enjoyable all the way through whether or not the ending was what you were expecting. Sigh lots of people have given their reasons and no it's not just because emo boy didn't win. Literally you can read in this thread why I didn't like it but fanboys going to fanboy and strawman anyone who disagrees with them. Also making it about fate kinda kills a lot of the actual drama once again as it kinda undermines the whole journey of Eren as a character down to I had to do all of this and wasn't influenced by the elements of the story at all. It just makes his whole character cheap which fine but if anything that keeps undermining the quality of the story as a whole. I think FMAB has a vastly better story/end and that was a happy end so again it's not just because I want my EDGE it's just that is how Isayama set the story up to end. If he wanted to avoid that he really needed to do a better job setting up the alliance which he didn't. In the end story ends in a edge fest anyway lol if you count the last chapters it's just not a very good one. Regardless sure AOT might be remembered like Death Note and Naruto in that it was very popular and had influence on the industry but like DN and Naruto I will be surprised if people totally accept that ending as amazing compared to say series that get praise for their endings like Bebop or FMA but again it's all a matter of opinion. If you didn’t want the EDGE then I wasn’t referring to you. But I’ve seen too many people dismiss the ending *just* because Eren wasn’t a heartless genocidal edgelord maniac. I’m not a fanboy and I don’t think the ending of the series was godteir but it wasn’t unbearably bad and I think Requiem butchers Erens character as well as the ending more than Isayama did. You didn't make any differentiation and again while sure some people just always want edge Isayama didn't help matters. I highly doubt ANR is going to be that well written but having a tragic Eren kills everyone outside the walls ending would have been vastly better than how the current ending is. It keeps his character consistent and the theme of the story as well (going back to what Erwin and Pixis have said). If he wanted to go for more heart warming the world is better off ending he needed to do things differently. He wrote himself into a corner. As annoying as overt Eren fanboys ended up becoming it's not like Isayama didn't cultivate them. Eren never put his own freedom above his friends, there's not even one scene where he prioritized himself over his friends and this scene clearly shows that Eren would have never went the Anr route- Eren's Goal was never just to save Paradise. His goal was to save 'Mikasa, Armin' and everyone on the Paradise Island and AnR completely contradicts Eren's goal and just make him into a Heartless Monster who'd do anything for his freedom which he is clearly not. |
Jul 12, 2021 1:14 AM
#127
-X3RX3S- said: BilboBaggins365 said: The guy you replied is correct on Eren's part about the Anr.Ermatica said: BilboBaggins365 said: Ermatica said: They’re angry because “muh emo boy.” They’re mad eren wasnt a one dimensional edgelord doing evil for the sake of being an edgy little shit. People like requiem more because it shits on the kind of character eren originally was: a sympathetic villain. He didn’t want to do any of what he was doing but he was bound by the shackles of fate. He even begs Hange for another way because he *doesn’t want to go through with the genocide.* But requiem shits all over that and it becomes erens *choice* to proceed with it rather than his path being paved by the hands of fate. He becomes the shitty fakedeep edgelord people are mad he never was in canon. Sure, the ending wasn’t great but AOT is still going to go down as a classic and it’s still enjoyable all the way through whether or not the ending was what you were expecting. Sigh lots of people have given their reasons and no it's not just because emo boy didn't win. Literally you can read in this thread why I didn't like it but fanboys going to fanboy and strawman anyone who disagrees with them. Also making it about fate kinda kills a lot of the actual drama once again as it kinda undermines the whole journey of Eren as a character down to I had to do all of this and wasn't influenced by the elements of the story at all. It just makes his whole character cheap which fine but if anything that keeps undermining the quality of the story as a whole. I think FMAB has a vastly better story/end and that was a happy end so again it's not just because I want my EDGE it's just that is how Isayama set the story up to end. If he wanted to avoid that he really needed to do a better job setting up the alliance which he didn't. In the end story ends in a edge fest anyway lol if you count the last chapters it's just not a very good one. Regardless sure AOT might be remembered like Death Note and Naruto in that it was very popular and had influence on the industry but like DN and Naruto I will be surprised if people totally accept that ending as amazing compared to say series that get praise for their endings like Bebop or FMA but again it's all a matter of opinion. If you didn’t want the EDGE then I wasn’t referring to you. But I’ve seen too many people dismiss the ending *just* because Eren wasn’t a heartless genocidal edgelord maniac. I’m not a fanboy and I don’t think the ending of the series was godteir but it wasn’t unbearably bad and I think Requiem butchers Erens character as well as the ending more than Isayama did. You didn't make any differentiation and again while sure some people just always want edge Isayama didn't help matters. I highly doubt ANR is going to be that well written but having a tragic Eren kills everyone outside the walls ending would have been vastly better than how the current ending is. It keeps his character consistent and the theme of the story as well (going back to what Erwin and Pixis have said). If he wanted to go for more heart warming the world is better off ending he needed to do things differently. He wrote himself into a corner. As annoying as overt Eren fanboys ended up becoming it's not like Isayama didn't cultivate them. Eren never put his own freedom above his friends, there's not even one scene where he prioritized himself over his friends and this scene clearly shows that Eren would have never went the Anr route- Eren's Goal was never just to save Paradise. His goal was to save 'Mikasa, Armin' and everyone on the Paradise Island and AnR completely contradicts Eren's goal and just make him into a Heartless Monster who'd do anything for his freedom which he is clearly not. Except the problem with that is that he basically allowed them to live on for their existence and maybe their kids existence dooming the next or next next generation to death when all the enemies Eren made come home to wipe out their grand children. I mean if that was the end result I would be kinda horrified as Mikasa what I am leaving my kids or grand kids to. If the goal was just to ensure Mikasa and Armin have peace Zeke's plan is better and doesn't require massive amounts of death for everyone. Sure Mikasa can't have kids but they basically are doomed anyway and it's not like they can go outside even after the rumbling considering the likely destruction. They are isolated on the island either way. So what was gained? Mikasa got to have kids that were doomed to oblivion because Eren couldn't finish the job even though he already destroyed 80% of the world's population in the greatest genocide ever just for his friends. Honestly again I don't really care about the ANR freedom narrative my point is that if he is already going to the the extent he is it doesn't make sense to just leave the situation as is if he even just cared about only his friends. It's not about whether he put x freedom about everyone else he screwed his friends too in the end along with Paradise. I am just arguing that this ending is bad not that ANR is good. |
BilboBaggins365Jul 12, 2021 1:18 AM
Jul 12, 2021 6:58 PM
#128
It's not just the ending the whole last arc was shit |
Jul 12, 2021 8:17 PM
#129
Seha_123 said: That's debatable. Tell me what exactly was so wrong with Chapters 125, 127, 128, 129, 130, 131, 132, 133 and 134?It's not just the ending the whole last arc was shit I'll wait. |
Jul 13, 2021 5:41 AM
#130
Tbh it wasnt as bad as everyone made it out to be... its ok a lil corny but its ok |
Jul 13, 2021 10:12 AM
#131
BlossomBurst said: Non-aggressive said: I also like the ending. I think you should come to your own conclusions and not let other people calling you brain dead on reddit for like it influence your I opinions. It didn't influence my opinion, I was just curious why everyone overhyped how bad it was not only the ending is bad it just makes previous themes, events and happenings way way worse even laughable. you may watch for YouTube videos to see some constructive criticism over the finale. |
Jul 13, 2021 10:39 AM
#132
@Nobody5464 have you forgotten that Armin thanked Eren for becoming a murderer Mikasa continued to love the mass maniac who destroyed 80% of the planet, what about the alliance who mourned Eren's death, Eren's actions weren't condemned by the alliance, this disgusting story glorifies hypocrisy? |
Jul 13, 2021 11:22 AM
#133
JosephSaber40 said: @Nobody5464 have you forgotten that Armin thanked Eren for becoming a murderer Mikasa continued to love the mass maniac who destroyed 80% of the planet, what about the alliance who mourned Eren's death, Eren's actions weren't condemned by the alliance, this disgusting story glorifies hypocrisy? They all worked together to kill him in order to stop him and armin thanked him for committing such a massive mistake for their sakes. He was thanking his childhood friend, almost brother, eren in their final moments together, for caring so much about them, not justifying his action. |
Jul 13, 2021 12:31 PM
#134
engich said: Nobody5464 said: They all worked together to kill him in order to stop him and armin thanked him for committing such a massive mistake for their sakes. He was thanking his childhood friend, almost brother, eren in their final moments together, for caring so much about them, not justifying his action. Sorry sister but all alliance members went from "perish nightmare" to "I wanted to talk to him... (sob)" in like 2 chapters, they only wanted to stop Eren because he threatened their parents. You can pull your mental gymnastics as much as you want but narratively Eren is treated as a hero for murdering 80% humanity, his own familty and sacrificing Paradis for his ~7 friends (yeah, including Pieck, Annie and other warriors). It’s not mental gymnastics to see that none of his friends wanted him to kill the world. |
Jul 13, 2021 1:26 PM
#135
Nobody5464 said: engich said: Nobody5464 said: They all worked together to kill him in order to stop him and armin thanked him for committing such a massive mistake for their sakes. He was thanking his childhood friend, almost brother, eren in their final moments together, for caring so much about them, not justifying his action. Sorry sister but all alliance members went from "perish nightmare" to "I wanted to talk to him... (sob)" in like 2 chapters, they only wanted to stop Eren because he threatened their parents. You can pull your mental gymnastics as much as you want but narratively Eren is treated as a hero for murdering 80% humanity, his own familty and sacrificing Paradis for his ~7 friends (yeah, including Pieck, Annie and other warriors). It’s not mental gymnastics to see that none of his friends wanted him to kill the world. Except Armin later goes pretty much almost to say it was a necessary evil Eren had to take on for everyone. I mean the original plan I thought Armin believed in was to use the Titans as deterrent while they tried to make diplomatic relations with those that may be opposed to Marley. You are right they didn't want him to kill the world so why do they still see him in a light that isn't incredibly negative? The fact he isn't insanely at Eren for killing billions of people goes against his character in my opinion. Though honestly again Isayama never really I think built up the world enough to see how valid some of the other options were. |
Jul 13, 2021 11:04 PM
#136
engich said: "Sorry but nobody gave a fuck about outside world people and especially about Paradis people." Tell that to the Survey Corps, who went as far as to becoming criminals to their own hometown, killing many of their own comrades, and all to try and reach Eren before he completed his genocide. And only decided to kill him after Eren himself made it clear the only way to stop him was by death.Nobody5464 said: It’s not mental gymnastics to see that none of his friends wanted him to kill the world. Half of the alliance just wanted to be heroes and the other one stopped Eren just for their parents. Sorry but nobody gave a fuck about outside world people and especially about Paradis people. "They wanted to be heroes" Who wanted that? Show me any page from the rumbling arc where the alliance specifically says they want to become heroes and that's the reason they're risking it all to stop Eren. Because as far as i can remember, they all beat themselves down constantly, they are portrayed as hypocrites by Yelena, they constantly blame themselves for not being able to find another solution for Eren to use, and some like Connie feel mortified because of the awful things he's had to do. In 131 it goes so far that Armin tells Annie he's not a good person, that he's a monster just like Eren, and in 133 they all apologize to Eren and beg him to stop. So your whole "they changed their entire demeanor toward him all of a sudden" is invalidated as shown by the manga, the Corps didn't hate Eren, they didn't before the battle and certainly didn't after his death. |
Jul 13, 2021 11:09 PM
#137
engich said: Nobody5464 said: It’s not mental gymnastics to see that none of his friends wanted him to kill the world. Half of the alliance just wanted to be heroes and the other one stopped Eren just for their parents. Sorry but nobody gave a fuck about outside world people and especially about Paradis people. Dude that’s just literally lies. Maybe reread the last arc |
Jul 14, 2021 9:31 PM
#138
Ermatica said: BilboBaggins365 said: Ermatica said: They’re angry because “muh emo boy.” They’re mad eren wasnt a one dimensional edgelord doing evil for the sake of being an edgy little shit. People like requiem more because it shits on the kind of character eren originally was: a sympathetic villain. He didn’t want to do any of what he was doing but he was bound by the shackles of fate. He even begs Hange for another way because he *doesn’t want to go through with the genocide.* But requiem shits all over that and it becomes erens *choice* to proceed with it rather than his path being paved by the hands of fate. He becomes the shitty fakedeep edgelord people are mad he never was in canon. Sure, the ending wasn’t great but AOT is still going to go down as a classic and it’s still enjoyable all the way through whether or not the ending was what you were expecting. Sigh lots of people have given their reasons and no it's not just because emo boy didn't win. Literally you can read in this thread why I didn't like it but fanboys going to fanboy and strawman anyone who disagrees with them. Also making it about fate kinda kills a lot of the actual drama once again as it kinda undermines the whole journey of Eren as a character down to I had to do all of this and wasn't influenced by the elements of the story at all. It just makes his whole character cheap which fine but if anything that keeps undermining the quality of the story as a whole. I think FMAB has a vastly better story/end and that was a happy end so again it's not just because I want my EDGE it's just that is how Isayama set the story up to end. If he wanted to avoid that he really needed to do a better job setting up the alliance which he didn't. In the end story ends in a edge fest anyway lol if you count the last chapters it's just not a very good one. Regardless sure AOT might be remembered like Death Note and Naruto in that it was very popular and had influence on the industry but like DN and Naruto I will be surprised if people totally accept that ending as amazing compared to say series that get praise for their endings like Bebop or FMA but again it's all a matter of opinion. If you didn’t want the EDGE then I wasn’t referring to you. But I’ve seen too many people dismiss the ending *just* because Eren wasn’t a heartless genocidal edgelord maniac. I’m not a fanboy and I don’t think the ending of the series was godteir but it wasn’t unbearably bad and I think Requiem butchers Erens character as well as the ending more than Isayama did. No be they spittin tho 😳 Seriously, you're totally right |
Jul 14, 2021 10:07 PM
#139
Everything was so bad about it...people who paid attention to the story are the ones who are disappointed. So...Everyone hates the ending because it sucks... |
Jul 26, 2021 7:45 AM
#140
BilboBaggins365 said: Nobody5464 said: engich said: Nobody5464 said: They all worked together to kill him in order to stop him and armin thanked him for committing such a massive mistake for their sakes. He was thanking his childhood friend, almost brother, eren in their final moments together, for caring so much about them, not justifying his action. Sorry sister but all alliance members went from "perish nightmare" to "I wanted to talk to him... (sob)" in like 2 chapters, they only wanted to stop Eren because he threatened their parents. You can pull your mental gymnastics as much as you want but narratively Eren is treated as a hero for murdering 80% humanity, his own familty and sacrificing Paradis for his ~7 friends (yeah, including Pieck, Annie and other warriors). It’s not mental gymnastics to see that none of his friends wanted him to kill the world. Except Armin later goes pretty much almost to say it was a necessary evil Eren had to take on for everyone. I mean the original plan I thought Armin believed in was to use the Titans as deterrent while they tried to make diplomatic relations with those that may be opposed to Marley. You are right they didn't want him to kill the world so why do they still see him in a light that isn't incredibly negative? The fact he isn't insanely at Eren for killing billions of people goes against his character in my opinion. Though honestly again Isayama never really I think built up the world enough to see how valid some of the other options were. I don't think you understand that the rumbling was necessary to happen in order for the power of the titans to disappear. The reason it doesn't go against Armin's character is because he understands that there was no other way for the power of the titans to disappear. It's like Avengers Endgame where there was only one way to win and that involved the death of Tony Stark, etc (despite being a remarkably small price to pay). So it's either do you want the power of the titans to continue to exist in human history and cause as much if not more cumulative damage than the rumbling or do you want to rid the titans once and for all, although Isayama does suggest with the extra pages that the cycle is once again to begin which from my perspective as a student of history is fascinating thematically because it captures the repetitive nature of history. |
Jul 26, 2021 7:47 AM
#141
BilboBaggins365 said: Ermatica said: They’re angry because “muh emo boy.” They’re mad eren wasnt a one dimensional edgelord doing evil for the sake of being an edgy little shit. People like requiem more because it shits on the kind of character eren originally was: a sympathetic villain. He didn’t want to do any of what he was doing but he was bound by the shackles of fate. He even begs Hange for another way because he *doesn’t want to go through with the genocide.* But requiem shits all over that and it becomes erens *choice* to proceed with it rather than his path being paved by the hands of fate. He becomes the shitty fakedeep edgelord people are mad he never was in canon. Sure, the ending wasn’t great but AOT is still going to go down as a classic and it’s still enjoyable all the way through whether or not the ending was what you were expecting. Sigh lots of people have given their reasons and no it's not just because emo boy didn't win. Literally you can read in this thread why I didn't like it but fanboys going to fanboy and strawman anyone who disagrees with them. Also making it about fate kinda kills a lot of the actual drama once again as it kinda undermines the whole journey of Eren as a character down to I had to do all of this and wasn't influenced by the elements of the story at all. It just makes his whole character cheap which fine but if anything that keeps undermining the quality of the story as a whole. I think FMAB has a vastly better story/end and that was a happy end so again it's not just because I want my EDGE it's just that is how Isayama set the story up to end. If he wanted to avoid that he really needed to do a better job setting up the alliance which he didn't. In the end story ends in a edge fest anyway lol if you count the last chapters it's just not a very good one. Regardless sure AOT might be remembered like Death Note and Naruto in that it was very popular and had influence on the industry but like DN and Naruto I will be surprised if people totally accept that ending as amazing compared to say series that get praise for their endings like Bebop or FMA but again it's all a matter of opinion. You have no understanding of fate if you think one's destiny does not involve one being influenced by the elements of their story. |
Jul 26, 2021 10:50 AM
#142
ABDoesThings said: BilboBaggins365 said: Nobody5464 said: engich said: Nobody5464 said: They all worked together to kill him in order to stop him and armin thanked him for committing such a massive mistake for their sakes. He was thanking his childhood friend, almost brother, eren in their final moments together, for caring so much about them, not justifying his action. Sorry sister but all alliance members went from "perish nightmare" to "I wanted to talk to him... (sob)" in like 2 chapters, they only wanted to stop Eren because he threatened their parents. You can pull your mental gymnastics as much as you want but narratively Eren is treated as a hero for murdering 80% humanity, his own familty and sacrificing Paradis for his ~7 friends (yeah, including Pieck, Annie and other warriors). It’s not mental gymnastics to see that none of his friends wanted him to kill the world. Except Armin later goes pretty much almost to say it was a necessary evil Eren had to take on for everyone. I mean the original plan I thought Armin believed in was to use the Titans as deterrent while they tried to make diplomatic relations with those that may be opposed to Marley. You are right they didn't want him to kill the world so why do they still see him in a light that isn't incredibly negative? The fact he isn't insanely at Eren for killing billions of people goes against his character in my opinion. Though honestly again Isayama never really I think built up the world enough to see how valid some of the other options were. I don't think you understand that the rumbling was necessary to happen in order for the power of the titans to disappear. The reason it doesn't go against Armin's character is because he understands that there was no other way for the power of the titans to disappear. It's like Avengers Endgame where there was only one way to win and that involved the death of Tony Stark, etc (despite being a remarkably small price to pay). So it's either do you want the power of the titans to continue to exist in human history and cause as much if not more cumulative damage than the rumbling or do you want to rid the titans once and for all, although Isayama does suggest with the extra pages that the cycle is once again to begin which from my perspective as a student of history is fascinating thematically because it captures the repetitive nature of history. Again the smart thing would be to then use it either to kill everyone or use it as a bargaining chip through diplomacy and threat of the titans. Even the Zeke plan would be possible just using it as deterrent waiting for everyone to die off and it's likely the other nations would have agreed to leave them alone if they had proof and Zeke was leading it. You keep saying we don't understand but fail to explain why none of these outcomes which would have led to better situations either for Paradise or the world in general are considered. Instead Eren commits mass genocide to basically ensure only his friends get happy lives (again something you could do with Zeke's plan someone else like freaking instructor dude could have taken on the Titans after Eren's death if he didn't want to condemn his friends specifically) and the entire world isn't obliterated. If he wanted to ensure they had a longer term future the other choices are better but instead he just condemns his friend's kids and grand kids to oblivion for no explained reason. Eren left the future generations out to dry with no sense of recourse. It does go against Armin's character because they had a plan that doesn't leave most of humanity dead and it doesn't seem like he ever changed his mind on trying to work with other nations like Eren does. Plus it just says you did what was necessary which was entirely out of character what was the point of even fighting him lol if he agreed? There was never a prerequisite you must kill x % to end it. |
BilboBaggins365Jul 26, 2021 11:03 AM
Aug 1, 2021 11:03 PM
#143
BilboBaggins365 said: if Eren only made enemies than he wouldn't have been able to accomplish 200 years of peace and that's no joke looking at how the world was constantly at war before Marley Invasion. Full Rumbling also have the danger of Civil War, so I would be kinda horrified as Mikasa what I am leaving my kids or grand kids to.Except the problem with that is that he basically allowed them to live on for their existence and maybe their kids existence dooming the next or next next generation to death when all the enemies Eren made come home to wipe out their grand children. I mean if that was the end result I would be kinda horrified as Mikasa what I am leaving my kids or grand kids to. If the goal was just to ensure Mikasa and Armin have peace Zeke's plan is better and doesn't require massive amounts of death for everyone. Sure Mikasa can't have kids but they basically are doomed anyway and it's not like they can go outside even after the rumbling considering the likely destruction. They are isolated on the island either way. So what was gained? Mikasa got to have kids that were doomed to oblivion because Eren couldn't finish the job even though he already destroyed 80% of the world's population in the greatest genocide ever just for his friends. Honestly again I don't really care about the ANR freedom narrative my point is that if he is already going to the the extent he is it doesn't make sense to just leave the situation as is if he even just cared about only his friends. It's not about whether he put x freedom about everyone else he screwed his friends too in the end along with Paradise. I am just arguing that this ending is bad not that ANR is good. No Zeke's plan would sacrifice Historia and Eren don't want his friends to die. Also Zeke's planned everything assuming that Marley and the world would cower in fear and won't do anything to them in 100 years whereas there's a big [possibility that they could've even develop nuclear bombs when Paradis gets to their current level in 50 years. 200 years of peace was gained. His friends lived a peaceful life. Curse was broken. Also even with full rumbling Paradis was doomed if we go by the themes of AoT. There was a potential for civil war as Paradis is a Goody Two shoes, there's racism, corruption, discrimination and they can destroy a nation's economy, citizens, law and order, food supply resulting in famines and much much more which is a slow death. Racism and discrimination is of various kinds. Do you remember People living inside the Wall Sina and Rose were living a completely different luxurious life compared to people living in Wall Maria. Whole Uprising arc was how people revolt against there own people. Not to forget Eren himself destroyed a big chunk of Paradis while activating Rumbling. So sooner or LATER it was gonna happen and by later I meant 200 years also but eternal peace is not possible resulting in civil war. I didn't said you think AnR is better. I was pointing this line out- 'having a tragic Eren kills everyone outside the walls ending would have been vastly better than how the current ending is.' |
Aug 1, 2021 11:22 PM
#144
-X3RX3S- said: BilboBaggins365 said: if Eren only made enemies than he wouldn't have been able to accomplish 200 years of peace and that's no joke looking at how the world was constantly at war before Marley Invasion. Full Rumbling also have the danger of Civil War, so I would be kinda horrified as Mikasa what I am leaving my kids or grand kids to.Except the problem with that is that he basically allowed them to live on for their existence and maybe their kids existence dooming the next or next next generation to death when all the enemies Eren made come home to wipe out their grand children. I mean if that was the end result I would be kinda horrified as Mikasa what I am leaving my kids or grand kids to. If the goal was just to ensure Mikasa and Armin have peace Zeke's plan is better and doesn't require massive amounts of death for everyone. Sure Mikasa can't have kids but they basically are doomed anyway and it's not like they can go outside even after the rumbling considering the likely destruction. They are isolated on the island either way. So what was gained? Mikasa got to have kids that were doomed to oblivion because Eren couldn't finish the job even though he already destroyed 80% of the world's population in the greatest genocide ever just for his friends. Honestly again I don't really care about the ANR freedom narrative my point is that if he is already going to the the extent he is it doesn't make sense to just leave the situation as is if he even just cared about only his friends. It's not about whether he put x freedom about everyone else he screwed his friends too in the end along with Paradise. I am just arguing that this ending is bad not that ANR is good. No Zeke's plan would sacrifice Historia and Eren don't want his friends to die. Also Zeke's planned everything assuming that Marley and the world would cower in fear and won't do anything to them in 100 years whereas there's a big [possibility that they could've even develop nuclear bombs when Paradis gets to their current level in 50 years. 200 years of peace was gained. His friends lived a peaceful life. Curse was broken. Also even with full rumbling Paradis was doomed if we go by the themes of AoT. There was a potential for civil war as Paradis is a Goody Two shoes, there's racism, corruption, discrimination and they can destroy a nation's economy, citizens, law and order, food supply resulting in famines and much much more which is a slow death. Racism and discrimination is of various kinds. Do you remember People living inside the Wall Sina and Rose were living a completely different luxurious life compared to people living in Wall Maria. Whole Uprising arc was how people revolt against there own people. Not to forget Eren himself destroyed a big chunk of Paradis while activating Rumbling. So sooner or LATER it was gonna happen and by later I meant 200 years also but eternal peace is not possible resulting in civil war. I didn't said you think AnR is better. I was pointing this line out- 'having a tragic Eren kills everyone outside the walls ending would have been vastly better than how the current ending is.' How would Full Rumbling guarantee a civil war more so than any other alternative where the Eren loyalists and those against him would still be alive? Sure Mikasa and everyone would be horrified but that's hardly different that what he left them to. 80% or 100% you are still the greatest mass murderer in history. It's like saying Hitler isn't so bad because he didn't kill every single Jew in existence. I also don't know what you mean by if he only made enemies also where did you get that it was 200 years of peace? If you could point me to the panel because the world that they are left in looks like our world I guess the world would be in much worse state but it would be like 100 years at most into the future. It's been awhile since I read it. Yeah I know Zeke's plan would require sacrifice but again Eren still condemns future generations of people he cares about to death plus you know the mass genocide of innocents thing. I mean if the point he could care less about his friend's descendants and just his friends fine that still incredibly stupid, dumb and short sighted when again he had the possibility of ending the conflict permanently. If I was Mikasa I would deeply hate him. Plus people might say it's in character but sorry killing literally billions of people because of one girl he developed an emotion bond with again just makes me think this douche bag lol. That is really terrible character writing and an incredibly morally bankrupted individual. Sure I guess that could be a good character but I didn't feel that was at all developed in the case of Eren. Full Rumbling would guarantee peace for the Eldians for a time. There would be conflict possibly yes but here is the thing like I previously said why wasn't there conflict already in the canon timeline when the Yeagerists basically nationalists realized what Eren condemned them too? A non full rumbling doesn't just give Eldia more unity than if it was full. Plus if they went with original plan of using it as deterrent you might have gotten some of the more nationalists to come around by slaughtering Marley's invading force of the oppressors and directly working with the moderates within the government. Sure not forever but the series is right that while an external threat doesn't guarantee peace forever once you especially defeat it that threat still is incredibly useful in terms of unity. Like you argue somehow Isayama's canon ending stops all of what you are talking about it doesn't. At least even in the event of civil war some of their descedents could survive they had no such chance against the rest of the world. Ultimately I will continue to hold to this Isayama doesn't know how to write a good political thriller/war drama because stuff like this isn't considered. Also yeah a final Eren kills everyone tragic ending would have been better because it would at least make sense and would fit the themes of AOT better (the whole people won't stop fighting until only one is left) than whatever this current garbage is. |
BilboBaggins365Aug 1, 2021 11:31 PM
Aug 2, 2021 12:56 AM
#145
BilboBaggins365 said: I never said that current ending does not gurantee that. Ofc. it can happen as you said- people won't stop fighting until only one is left. What I am getting at is that Eren accomplished nothing more with Full rumbling than 80%. Heck he even accomplished less as he couldn't accomplish his friends' long life. Yes he is still the greatest mass murder who disagreed with you lol. I was saying killing everyone is just nonsense if the outcome is going to be same or worse.How would Full Rumbling guarantee a civil war more so than any other alternative where the Eren loyalists and those against him would still be alive? Sure Mikasa and everyone would be horrified but that's hardly different that what he left them to. 80% or 100% you are still the greatest mass murderer in history. It's like saying Hitler isn't so bad because he didn't kill every single Jew in existence. I also don't know what you mean by if he only made enemies also where did you get that it was 200 years of peace? If you could point me to the panel because the world that they are left in looks like our world I guess the world would be in much worse state but it would be like 100 years at most into the future. It's been awhile since I read it. Yeah I know Zeke's plan would require sacrifice but again Eren still condemns future generations of people he cares about to death plus you know the mass genocide of innocents thing. I mean if the point he could care less about his friend's descendants and just his friends fine that still incredibly stupid, dumb and short sighted when again he had the possibility of ending the conflict permanently. If I was Mikasa I would deeply hate him. Plus people might say it's in character but sorry killing literally billions of people because of one girl he developed an emotion bond with again just makes me think this douche bag lol. That is really terrible character writing and an incredibly morally bankrupted individual. Sure I guess that could be a good character but I didn't feel that was at all developed in the case of Eren. Full Rumbling would guarantee peace for the Eldians for a time. There would be conflict possibly yes but here is the thing like I previously said why wasn't there conflict already in the canon timeline when the Yeagerists basically nationalists realized what Eren condemned them too? A non full rumbling doesn't just give Eldia more unity than if it was full. Plus if they went with original plan of using it as deterrent you might have gotten some of the more nationalists to come around by slaughtering Marley's invading force of the oppressors and directly working with the moderates within the government. Sure not forever but the series is right that while an external threat doesn't guarantee peace forever once you especially defeat it that threat still is incredibly useful in terms of unity. Like you argue somehow Isayama's canon ending stops all of what you are talking about it doesn't. At least even in the event of civil war some of their descedents could survive they had no such chance against the rest of the world. Ultimately I will continue to hold to this Isayama doesn't know how to write a good political thriller/war drama because stuff like this isn't considered. Also yeah a final Eren kills everyone tragic ending would have been better because it would at least make sense and would fit the themes of AOT better (the whole people won't stop fighting until only one is left) than whatever this current garbage is. Its not explicitly mentioned 200 years but its somewhat between 150-200 not 100 years since in rumbling timeline there were only Horse carts but in the last pages there's cars from 80's and 90's and the plane looks like modern fighter jets. How can he end the conflict permanently when you yourslef stated that- 'people won't stop fighting until only one is left'. Eternal peace is an impossible thing to begin with. Well don't you think Historia would hate him even more if he did full rumbling and still there were civil war happening in the paradis for the reasons i already mentioned. You are just decreasing his character so much dude. Here's the analysis, read it as to why I think you are wrong- https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1941504 Like I said conflict was possible in canon timeline also, its just that Yams decided to portray it differently. No it was already stated that other nations do not want to have any connections with Paradis and Hizuru won't let Paradis to make connection. The threat is useful until they don't develop Nukes after that even Founding titan can't do shit. In civil war some descendants would survive but like you said- 'people won't stop fighting until only one is left' so it does not really make any difference, also we only saw Shiganshina or any other town getting bombed so we don't really know that everyone died or not. If whole paradis was bombed that child shouldn't be alive. How?? It will contradict- - chapter 089 - the owl said to grisha to do the plan in order to save mikasa, armin and others - chapter 108 - eren wants his friends to live long lives so he will not pass the attack titan to any of them With full rumbling Civil war might happen which will continue the cycle of hatred as 'people won't stop fighting until only one is left' making Eren's action much more useless as he couldn't even save his friends. Trashier end than the supposedly 'current garbage end'. The Extra pages fit the themes of SnK really well as it also shows us that- 'people won't stop fighting until only one is left', 'Humanity will never learn', Eternal peace and breaking the cycle of hatred is impossible. Its not like world will become lovey-dovey after Paradis is gone [which is not even fully confirmed]. They will still wage war with each other like how Marley and Fort Slava were in war for 4 years. |
MorphemeAug 2, 2021 1:49 AM
Aug 2, 2021 1:12 AM
#146
Aug 2, 2021 10:46 AM
#147
-X3RX3S- said: BilboBaggins365 said: I never said that current ending does not gurantee that. Ofc. it can happen as you said- people won't stop fighting until only one is left. What I am getting at is that Eren accomplished nothing more with Full rumbling than 80%. Heck he even accomplished less as he couldn't accomplish his friends' long life. Yes he is still the greatest mass murder who disagreed with you lol. I was saying killing everyone is just nonsense if the outcome is going to be same or worse.How would Full Rumbling guarantee a civil war more so than any other alternative where the Eren loyalists and those against him would still be alive? Sure Mikasa and everyone would be horrified but that's hardly different that what he left them to. 80% or 100% you are still the greatest mass murderer in history. It's like saying Hitler isn't so bad because he didn't kill every single Jew in existence. I also don't know what you mean by if he only made enemies also where did you get that it was 200 years of peace? If you could point me to the panel because the world that they are left in looks like our world I guess the world would be in much worse state but it would be like 100 years at most into the future. It's been awhile since I read it. Yeah I know Zeke's plan would require sacrifice but again Eren still condemns future generations of people he cares about to death plus you know the mass genocide of innocents thing. I mean if the point he could care less about his friend's descendants and just his friends fine that still incredibly stupid, dumb and short sighted when again he had the possibility of ending the conflict permanently. If I was Mikasa I would deeply hate him. Plus people might say it's in character but sorry killing literally billions of people because of one girl he developed an emotion bond with again just makes me think this douche bag lol. That is really terrible character writing and an incredibly morally bankrupted individual. Sure I guess that could be a good character but I didn't feel that was at all developed in the case of Eren. Full Rumbling would guarantee peace for the Eldians for a time. There would be conflict possibly yes but here is the thing like I previously said why wasn't there conflict already in the canon timeline when the Yeagerists basically nationalists realized what Eren condemned them too? A non full rumbling doesn't just give Eldia more unity than if it was full. Plus if they went with original plan of using it as deterrent you might have gotten some of the more nationalists to come around by slaughtering Marley's invading force of the oppressors and directly working with the moderates within the government. Sure not forever but the series is right that while an external threat doesn't guarantee peace forever once you especially defeat it that threat still is incredibly useful in terms of unity. Like you argue somehow Isayama's canon ending stops all of what you are talking about it doesn't. At least even in the event of civil war some of their descedents could survive they had no such chance against the rest of the world. Ultimately I will continue to hold to this Isayama doesn't know how to write a good political thriller/war drama because stuff like this isn't considered. Also yeah a final Eren kills everyone tragic ending would have been better because it would at least make sense and would fit the themes of AOT better (the whole people won't stop fighting until only one is left) than whatever this current garbage is. Its not explicitly mentioned 200 years but its somewhat between 150-200 not 100 years since in rumbling timeline there were only Horse carts but in the last pages there's cars from 80's and 90's and the plane looks like modern fighter jets. How can he end the conflict permanently when you yourslef stated that- 'people won't stop fighting until only one is left'. Eternal peace is an impossible thing to begin with. Well don't you think Historia would hate him even more if he did full rumbling and still there were civil war happening in the paradis for the reasons i already mentioned. You are just decreasing his character so much dude. Here's the analysis, read it as to why I think you are wrong- https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1941504 Like I said conflict was possible in canon timeline also, its just that Yams decided to portray it differently. No it was already stated that other nations do not want to have any connections with Paradis and Hizuru won't let Paradis to make connection. The threat is useful until they don't develop Nukes after that even Founding titan can't do shit. In civil war some descendants would survive but like you said- 'people won't stop fighting until only one is left' so it does not really make any difference, also we only saw Shiganshina or any other town getting bombed so we don't really know that everyone died or not. If whole paradis was bombed that child shouldn't be alive. How?? It will contradict- - chapter 089 - the owl said to grisha to do the plan in order to save mikasa, armin and others - chapter 108 - eren wants his friends to live long lives so he will not pass the attack titan to any of them With full rumbling Civil war might happen which will continue the cycle of hatred as 'people won't stop fighting until only one is left' making Eren's action much more useless as he couldn't even save his friends. Trashier end than the supposedly 'current garbage end'. The Extra pages fit the themes of SnK really well as it also shows us that- 'people won't stop fighting until only one is left', 'Humanity will never learn', Eternal peace and breaking the cycle of hatred is impossible. Its not like world will become lovey-dovey after Paradis is gone [which is not even fully confirmed]. They will still wage war with each other like how Marley and Fort Slava were in war for 4 years. Uh no if he goes 100% the possibility of being killed off by the outside world is gone. Sure there is the possibility of civil war but even in that circumstance there would be no racial cleansing for the Eldians at least and likely his friends children would survive unlike the future 80% condemns them to which is guaranteed destruction at some point. Secondly again if we are just basing this off judgement if time moves like it did in our timeline which seems to be the case when you consider the other jumps in the AOT world the series takes place in an advanced version of the maybe the late 1910's or 1920s. To get to the period the ending takes place in which looks like our own it's only likely 80 to 100 years ahead. That is how long Eren guaranteed peace so while Mikasa and co might get to live out their lives their children and children's children are fucked. Also I think Historia would hate him that their future children are doomed and again either way he hasn't stopped a civil war. If Historia or anyone else cared about being humane then again Zeke or the deterrant plan is better. At least full rumbling Eldia to some degree survives the other choice saved no one long term and 80% of the world died just so a few people got to live their lives in peace confined likely on the island. Real freedom they got there lol. Also I am not going to read another poster you are free to actually explain to me because if you can't undermine this fact there is no way his characterization is good because this doesn't make sense and it's the most crucial point for his character and the ending. Finally Hizuru was to some degree willing they just wanted to exploit them partially to get Mikasa (regardless it would have been fun to have some actual political bargaining and intrigue in the story more so than what we got) in the end but again if Isayama's world it partially doesn't make sense why nations under Marley wouldn't try to use the titans that Eldia has to overthrow them. It's something that should be explored because while some of them view them as monsters any pragmatic politician would see yesterday's enemies as tomorrow's friends. You look at nations like India which have made friends with Anglo allies like the UK and USA to counter current China despite the past or Japan with the USA. Ultimately if Eren just uses the Rumbling to destroy invading forces it would show restraint and a lack of care for domination and smaller nations would jump at that. Sure in the future weapons could out pace and would out pace the titans but the heroes don't know how long that will take. You kinda hope for relations to be somewhat normalized and enemies defeated at least to the point of we don't want to exterminate you. Isayama only really develops the Marley and Eldia side so we never get to see if the titans really are just enough for people to choose likely domination by Marley over maybe potential freedom supporting groups that oppressed them in the past. Like there were former solidiers willing to help them from other nations to argue it would be just these few dudes doesn't seem logical to me especially when you look at the history of international relations. That said again personally above all even though this is possible way of developing the story for a simple end would be to have Armin and co stop Eren from using the Rumbling because then at that point it at least could have been reasonable for maybe some people in the Marlyean military who had sympathies to save them or again full destruction of the world. Again also full Rumbling guarantees not future annihilation that is the only difference between them. So how is it the trashier end? Again explain this because you have failed to in both posts. |
BilboBaggins365Aug 2, 2021 11:43 AM
Aug 2, 2021 11:01 AM
#148
because reiner survived |
Aug 2, 2021 10:04 PM
#149
BilboBaggins365 said: So you are saying Killing each other is fine as long as its not racial. That's wierd. At what basis are saying that- 'his friends children would survive unlike the future 80% condemns them to which is guaranteed destruction at some point.' Why can they survive the civil war, Oh wait his friend's children don't exist since he killed his friend lol. Leaving only historia's child behind and she can also get killed.Uh no if he goes 100% the possibility of being killed off by the outside world is gone. Sure there is the possibility of civil war but even in that circumstance there would be no racial cleansing for the Eldians at least and likely his friends children would survive unlike the future 80% condemns them to which is guaranteed destruction at some point. Secondly again if we are just basing this off judgement if time moves like it did in our timeline which seems to be the case when you consider the other jumps in the AOT world the series takes place in an advanced version of the maybe the late 1910's or 1920s. To get to the period the ending takes place in which looks like our own it's only likely 80 to 100 years ahead. That is how long Eren guaranteed peace so while Mikasa and co might get to live out their lives their children and children's children are fucked. Also I think Historia would hate him that their future children are doomed and again either way he hasn't stopped a civil war. If Historia or anyone else cared about being humane then again Zeke or the deterrant plan is better. At least full rumbling Eldia to some degree survives the other choice saved no one long term and 80% of the world died just so a few people got to live their lives in peace confined likely on the island. Real freedom they got there lol. Also I am not going to read another poster you are free to actually explain to me because if you can't undermine this fact there is no way his characterization is good because this doesn't make sense and it's the most crucial point for his character and the ending. Finally Hizuru was to some degree willing they just wanted to exploit them partially to get Mikasa (regardless it would have been fun to have some actual political bargaining and intrigue in the story more so than what we got) in the end but again if Isayama's world it partially doesn't make sense why nations under Marley wouldn't try to use the titans that Eldia has to overthrow them. It's something that should be explored because while some of them view them as monsters any pragmatic politician would see yesterday's enemies as tomorrow's friends. You look at nations like India which have made friends with Anglo allies like the UK and USA to counter current China despite the past or Japan with the USA. Isayama only really develops the Marley and Eldia side so we never get to see if the titans really are just enough for people to choose likely domination by Marley over maybe potential freedom supporting groups that oppressed them in the past. Like there were former solidiers willing to help them from other nations to argue it would be just these few dudes doesn't seem logical to me especially when you look at the history of international relations. That said again personally above all even though this is possible way of developing the story for a simple end would be to have Armin and co stop Eren from using the Rumbling because then at that point it at least could have been reasonable for maybe some people in the Marlyean military who had sympathies to save them or again full destruction of the world. Again also full Rumbling guarantees not future annihilation that is the only difference between them. So how is it the trashier end? Again explain this because you have failed to in both posts. No, its not based on 1910 or 1920 because in WW1 had heavy usage of Aircrafts whereas there's no aircraft during the rumbling timeline. Also Telephone was invented in 1875 and there's no usage of telephone up until the end. So yeah My point still stands. You are really stuck up on Zeke's plan when I clearly mentioned it was based on a big assumption that Marley and the world would cower in fear in place of developing better arsenal. Okay I'll explain but it will be long ass- Structured in parts by laying out eren’s main desires/motivators by the end (freedom, long lives for friends, securing paradis, finish the titan cycle), and working back through his life to see how it was formed and how it ties to his ending. Part 1: Freedom Probably one of the most misrepresented concepts in the community imo. A flawed, childish concept that he never managed to fully escape from, however also somewhat sympathetic. The indignation of being trapped by your environment, powerless to do anything. He formed his idea of freedom around Armin’s book, an aimless child given hope and a potential purpose. He consistently gained strength from his conviction, which only further pushed him down this rabbit hole of his own creation. However Eren wanted a boundless freedom that is impossible to attain, he wanted to fly and not be tied down in any way, hence the overt bird symbolism. There are always limiters to human existence so Eren’s ideal was one that could never have been achieved This is partly why eren is so broken at the sea, if he kills everyone would that actually be freedom? Reaching it isn’t enough anymore. It isn’t a retcon, this is eren honestly questioning his future, before he’s fully accepted what he’s seen but the realisation is catching up. Freedom’ is impossible to define objectively and eren, even with the power of a God, can’t have the limitless freedom he wanted because his own desires contradict each other. He’s prevented from carrying out one desire fully by the existence of another desire. In fact, any concept along these lines such as true freedom, utopia etc, is fundamentally flawed as they go against human nature. If we aren’t tied down by others we tie ourselves down and humans as a species aren’t able to overcome themselves. I wrote something on the freedom panel earlier and this seems like a good place to put it. [His Thread on the Freedom panel: The freedom panel is something that i’ve seen criticised after 139 so i thought i’d share my opinion. he was flying high above the clouds and seeing the entire world/remaking it in the image of his childhood dream. he’s so broken by paths and the atrocity he’s committing that he reverts into his child form as a coping method and that child feels that this is freedom to some extent despite how fucked up it is due to childish ignorance and a much simpler view of the world/morality. he’s always struggled with the inherent contradiction of selfishness v selflessness and i think this is where we see that come to head. despite him knowing he’s going to die and having seen the fate before him it’s still something he wants to do/would’ve done anyway. he WAS disappointed in humanity beyond the walls and wanted to make the word a blank canvas like armins books, which are all things he equates to freedom and he celebrates that in his child form despite it being ‘temporary’ (as shown by the change in his face in the next panel). it shows an ugly and innately human side of a childhood dream taken to a horrific extreme and eren knows this, which i see as added nuance/complexity, not contradiction. 139 ties this all together perfectly and the lack of nuance when discussing it is upsetting.] It’s a coping mechanism, a childhood dream turned horrifying from the boy who could never fully accept the world that has birthed him (a similar mindset but opposite reaction to Zeke). I know people might argue that ‘oh his concept of freedom developed, he wants freedom to live for him & his people’, however 131 makes it overwhelmingly clear that isn’t the case. Deep down, beyond it all, this is a selfish and childish dream and he freely confesses to this. Even the context of the confession scene heightens this. The person eren confesses his true feelings to is someone who can’t understand his words (ramzi doesn’t speak the same language). It’s a selfish desire to offload guilt, but he doesn’t truly want to be understood/stopped. In essence eren by the end of the story is limited by no one other than himself. He’s tortured by the weight of his own guilt, his victim - perpetrator arc comes full circle by ‘allowing’ his mother to be killed as a result of bertholt living, and he dies with regret.He admits at the end that he doesn’t know why he’s always sought freedom, as he’s repeated multiple times throughout the manga. It’s a commentary on nature v nurture which ties his parallels to reiner even more closely. The selfish desire that they may have just been born with.It’s been staring us all in the faces pts. He’s never had a valid answer for why he does what he does. He rebukes zeke as he ‘just can’t accept an end like that’, he was ‘born into this world’, or ‘i am just me’. He is not a philosopher and 139 is consistent in that The final nail in his freedom coffin is his inability to change the future. Everyone is a slave to something and eren is a slave to the concept of freedom, but more so he’s a slave to himself. He cannot change the future because, for all his guilt, he cannot change HIMSELF. It’s the truth of eren yeager in all it’s ugliness. He wanted everything that he did. Free will and determinism are not mutually exclusive for yams, in fact it’s only due to eren’s free will that this future is possible. He is who he is and he can never escape from that. Slight headcanon/side point, but i like to think his desire was so strong that is retroactively impacted all holders of the attack titan, much like Karl and his ideology. Ties into ‘to you 2000 years from now’ with eren being the embodiment of ymir’s desire for freedom. p1 end. Part 2: He Wants His Friends To Live Long Lives Something that, again, was weirdly twisted by a portion of the fan base. As he says multiple times, all post time skip btw, this is a core and driving motivator for him. Probably the most selfless of them all in fact Eren has wanted to protect those closest to him from the beginning. He tries to push Mikasa away from the SC, he ‘protects’ armin from bullies, and he even jumps into a titans mouth to save him. It’s a part of his nature, he also fights for those he loves Jumping ahead but this part of his nature is also the reason he can’t stop himself from saving Ramzi. At his core he is also somebody who is unwilling to do nothing when an injustice like this is thrust in his face, no matter how hypocritical that may be. There’s so many instances of eren showing his love for his friends that it would be ridiculous to try to list them but the important thing is that this aspect of his character DOESN’T change post timeskip. All surface level but the takes i see. Cue 130. Zeke asks what he will do about Mikasa’s feelings and he says he will die so there’s no point. He thinks of a new life being brought into this world to enforce the idea that life will go on after he is done, along with his friends. It’s not a retcon but a hint to the ending Sasha and Hange are normally pointed out to ‘disprove’ this but those arguments are flawed. Eren, just like with the blank canvas + securing paradis, has to compromise on this desire or he wouldn’t be able to find a balance between the three of them This is why he gets so angry at Sasha’s death. He hates himself for doing this therefore he laughs at his uselessness like he did with Hannes’ death, he feels the same way. It’s an unavoidable consequence for him to achieve some part of each goal despite how much it hurts him. Each part ties into the ending once again. When armin asks if he did this for them eren doesn’t reply because it’s not the whole truth. Yes it was the most ‘selfless’ aspect of his goals but it wasn’t his only goal and he’s not about to lie and say it is He even openly admits he didn’t know the fate of each of his friends. All he knew was that Mikasa, kills him, and Armin, ‘saviour’, would survive (his two biggest priorities). He was willing to accept that outcome, despite him not WANTING that fate for the rest. The train/cart scene is the most overt display of this desire and there’s really not much else to be added beyond that. He wants to save his friends, even if he knows he can’t fulfil that to the extent he would prefer. end of p2 Part 3: Securing Paradis’ Future + Ending the Titan Cycle I’ve put these into the same category because it best exemplifies the contradictory nature of what eren wants. 100% security from outside threat means no end to the curse. The same thing applies vice versa People will point to chapter 90 as proof eren grew past his desire to wipe out titans but 139 recontextualises this in a way that far better suits his character. He left him alive because he knew there was a chance he’d be turned back. Titans have been the focal point of his trauma since shiganshina, but it’s not just the titans themselves. It’s being forced into 13 years, forced to eat each other and forced to maintain something that turns them into cattle Eren has always wanted to make a difference, from his childhood onwards, so he’s not willing to pass the burden of the TITANS into further generations. He has the power now and he will end it with his own hands This attitude harkens back to the deaths of levi squad. Eren trusted in the ones around him and their deaths made him regret that. However he gets beaten anyway. He can’t trust others and he can’t trust himself either This realisation is pushed to the brink in the cave. World view shattered, lamenting his existence and suicidal, it takes others to give him the courage to move forward again. To be able to trust in himself again, however briefly. Bystanders is vital because it presents an escape from eren’s depression. The story of uselessness is something that resonated with him but Carla’s words allow him to have a more balanced view. He IS special, but not due to his abilities. He’s special because he was born. Pts challenges this improved outlook once again. If he (and everyone else) are special, why must they die purely BECAUSE they were born? It’s wrong, unjust, and unforgivable in his mind. He must do something, it’s his duty, with the power he has.The problem arises here. If he rumbles the entire world, his people would still be forced into eating each other and the objects of his trauma would go unpunished & all his friends may die, but he’ll be able to achieve the blank canvas he selfishly desires. Cue 80% and why it’s accepted as a compromise in his mind. It’s a great tie in of his growth to accept help from others but also his selfishness and need to contribute. He makes them unable to counter immediately, and trusts his friends to find another solution after that. There’s so much hate for this concept when it’s perfectly in line with his characterisation throughout the entire story. He even uses the exact same words at the start of the rumbling that he used as a child screaming post Carla’s death. + end of p3 Conclusion Eren is multifaceted, with contradictory desires, but that doesn’t make him a worse character it makes him more human in a story predicated upon not dehumanising others - literally the point of the titan allegory in the first place 139 shows us the man who’d seen beyond the hell, who had stopped moving forward after achieving his goals (compromised as they were) and was left to be tortured timelessly by the weight of his own guilt. His selfish outburst about mikasa is just that, an outburst, which he immediately takes back. He even says the exact opposite to mikasa herself, canonically after this event. He’s getting his years worth of pent up desires, which he’s never intending to act on, off of his chest before he dies while talking to his best friend. It’s just human and about as out of character as erwin saying he wants to see the basement and letting levi decide 139 also isn’t approval of eren jeager’s actions. He’s painted as lost and regretful, the product of trauma and the ultimate perpetrator. Armin being able to sympathise despite immediately condemning his actions is just a step away from the cycle that’s bound them. Eren holds the duality of almost all of themes of the show within himself by the end which is also a cool interpretation of transcendence. God/Devil, Selfish/Selfless, Victim/Perpetrator, Beauty/Cruelty, Freedom/Slavery and i love that.He ends riddled with hypocrisy, willingly killed at the hands of the one he loved and wanted to protect, with himself as his only true enemy. A fittingly tragic conclusion for the tragic story of Eren Jeager There will be people saying ‘oh it meant nothing who cares’ (like trying to attribute meaning isn’t a huge theme of the manga) but i honestly don’t care for such superficial takes. Eren was WRONG. Just as ymir was too submissive and twisted by her need for connection (not her fault), eren too was broken by his own trauma and his nature. The final pages shows us humans don’t change, but we will also never stop striving for a solution. END Reasons why Other nation won't make peace treaty with Paradis- - Marley already had the support of most of the other nation except Hizuru as we saw in DoW, even if we assume that 1 or 2 more nation joins paradis, Marley still have the upper hand with rest of the world. - Titans were becoming worthless day by day and with invention of Nukes each and every titan would be worthless let it be Founding titan. - So Why'd they try to make friends with those they think are devils instead of developing their arsenal even more. - They think of them as Devils. - Willy Already presented Eren and Paradis as the enemy of the world - No Hizuru literally rejected Hanje's proposal for business with other nation - Paradis need a representative outside of Paradis who is not an Eldian for negotiation and they have got none. - Politicians may want to be friends with Paradis but I think they will take control of whole paradis. Leaving Paradis as just some colony. Paradis can't retaliate to them as they have already developed Nukes. Also your Japan and America argument is wrong bc It was Japan who was not backing off of WW2, so America had no choice but to nuke them to make them surrender. India never had any fearful powers like Titan Power and UK was not taking revenge from India like Marley was taking from Eldians. We got the freedom group, Zeke's group was that only. Yelena, Onyankopon and others were from different nation but you saw how it went. Lol Ymir won't let your end happen and Eren will still do it, as its necessary for uplifting Ymir's curse. Also the world don't trust Paradis a bit. They'd think they are just putting an act or something and would force Paradis to do what the world wants to prove themselves. So Paradis ain't free. My God how many times do I have to tell you that Paradis is not 'annihilated', we only saw a town getting bombed. If the whole Paradis was annihilated that kid won't be unscathed. Now why Full rumbling is trash- - Contradicting these important scenes resulting in Eren's character retcon- chapter 089 - the owl said to grisha to do the plan in order to save mikasa, armin and others - chapter 108 - eren wants his friends to live long lives so he will not pass the attack titan to any of them - Eren couldn't save his friends - Ymir's curse is not broken since he killed Mikasa - Due to Civil War Paradis ruins itself and Yes Historia's child or Grand Children are no exception since its War. No one gives a damn who they are. - Racism or not Paradis got wrecked. Now tell me what did Eren accomplished? How is this end better than the one we got lol |
MorphemeAug 2, 2021 10:10 PM
Aug 2, 2021 10:22 PM
#150
-X3RX3S- said: BilboBaggins365 said: So you are saying Killing each other is fine as long as its not racial. That's wierd. At what basis are saying that- 'his friends children would survive unlike the future 80% condemns them to which is guaranteed destruction at some point.' Why can they survive the civil war, Oh wait his friend's children don't exist since he killed his friend lol. Leaving only historia's child behind and she can also get killed.Uh no if he goes 100% the possibility of being killed off by the outside world is gone. Sure there is the possibility of civil war but even in that circumstance there would be no racial cleansing for the Eldians at least and likely his friends children would survive unlike the future 80% condemns them to which is guaranteed destruction at some point. Secondly again if we are just basing this off judgement if time moves like it did in our timeline which seems to be the case when you consider the other jumps in the AOT world the series takes place in an advanced version of the maybe the late 1910's or 1920s. To get to the period the ending takes place in which looks like our own it's only likely 80 to 100 years ahead. That is how long Eren guaranteed peace so while Mikasa and co might get to live out their lives their children and children's children are fucked. Also I think Historia would hate him that their future children are doomed and again either way he hasn't stopped a civil war. If Historia or anyone else cared about being humane then again Zeke or the deterrant plan is better. At least full rumbling Eldia to some degree survives the other choice saved no one long term and 80% of the world died just so a few people got to live their lives in peace confined likely on the island. Real freedom they got there lol. Also I am not going to read another poster you are free to actually explain to me because if you can't undermine this fact there is no way his characterization is good because this doesn't make sense and it's the most crucial point for his character and the ending. Finally Hizuru was to some degree willing they just wanted to exploit them partially to get Mikasa (regardless it would have been fun to have some actual political bargaining and intrigue in the story more so than what we got) in the end but again if Isayama's world it partially doesn't make sense why nations under Marley wouldn't try to use the titans that Eldia has to overthrow them. It's something that should be explored because while some of them view them as monsters any pragmatic politician would see yesterday's enemies as tomorrow's friends. You look at nations like India which have made friends with Anglo allies like the UK and USA to counter current China despite the past or Japan with the USA. Isayama only really develops the Marley and Eldia side so we never get to see if the titans really are just enough for people to choose likely domination by Marley over maybe potential freedom supporting groups that oppressed them in the past. Like there were former solidiers willing to help them from other nations to argue it would be just these few dudes doesn't seem logical to me especially when you look at the history of international relations. That said again personally above all even though this is possible way of developing the story for a simple end would be to have Armin and co stop Eren from using the Rumbling because then at that point it at least could have been reasonable for maybe some people in the Marlyean military who had sympathies to save them or again full destruction of the world. Again also full Rumbling guarantees not future annihilation that is the only difference between them. So how is it the trashier end? Again explain this because you have failed to in both posts. No, its not based on 1910 or 1920 because in WW1 had heavy usage of Aircrafts whereas there's no aircraft during the rumbling timeline. Also Telephone was invented in 1875 and there's no usage of telephone up until the end. So yeah My point still stands. You are really stuck up on Zeke's plan when I clearly mentioned it was based on a big assumption that Marley and the world would cower in fear in place of developing better arsenal. Okay I'll explain but it will be long ass- Structured in parts by laying out eren’s main desires/motivators by the end (freedom, long lives for friends, securing paradis, finish the titan cycle), and working back through his life to see how it was formed and how it ties to his ending. Part 1: Freedom Probably one of the most misrepresented concepts in the community imo. A flawed, childish concept that he never managed to fully escape from, however also somewhat sympathetic. The indignation of being trapped by your environment, powerless to do anything. He formed his idea of freedom around Armin’s book, an aimless child given hope and a potential purpose. He consistently gained strength from his conviction, which only further pushed him down this rabbit hole of his own creation. However Eren wanted a boundless freedom that is impossible to attain, he wanted to fly and not be tied down in any way, hence the overt bird symbolism. There are always limiters to human existence so Eren’s ideal was one that could never have been achieved This is partly why eren is so broken at the sea, if he kills everyone would that actually be freedom? Reaching it isn’t enough anymore. It isn’t a retcon, this is eren honestly questioning his future, before he’s fully accepted what he’s seen but the realisation is catching up. Freedom’ is impossible to define objectively and eren, even with the power of a God, can’t have the limitless freedom he wanted because his own desires contradict each other. He’s prevented from carrying out one desire fully by the existence of another desire. In fact, any concept along these lines such as true freedom, utopia etc, is fundamentally flawed as they go against human nature. If we aren’t tied down by others we tie ourselves down and humans as a species aren’t able to overcome themselves. I wrote something on the freedom panel earlier and this seems like a good place to put it. [His Thread on the Freedom panel: The freedom panel is something that i’ve seen criticised after 139 so i thought i’d share my opinion. he was flying high above the clouds and seeing the entire world/remaking it in the image of his childhood dream. he’s so broken by paths and the atrocity he’s committing that he reverts into his child form as a coping method and that child feels that this is freedom to some extent despite how fucked up it is due to childish ignorance and a much simpler view of the world/morality. he’s always struggled with the inherent contradiction of selfishness v selflessness and i think this is where we see that come to head. despite him knowing he’s going to die and having seen the fate before him it’s still something he wants to do/would’ve done anyway. he WAS disappointed in humanity beyond the walls and wanted to make the word a blank canvas like armins books, which are all things he equates to freedom and he celebrates that in his child form despite it being ‘temporary’ (as shown by the change in his face in the next panel). it shows an ugly and innately human side of a childhood dream taken to a horrific extreme and eren knows this, which i see as added nuance/complexity, not contradiction. 139 ties this all together perfectly and the lack of nuance when discussing it is upsetting.] It’s a coping mechanism, a childhood dream turned horrifying from the boy who could never fully accept the world that has birthed him (a similar mindset but opposite reaction to Zeke). I know people might argue that ‘oh his concept of freedom developed, he wants freedom to live for him & his people’, however 131 makes it overwhelmingly clear that isn’t the case. Deep down, beyond it all, this is a selfish and childish dream and he freely confesses to this. Even the context of the confession scene heightens this. The person eren confesses his true feelings to is someone who can’t understand his words (ramzi doesn’t speak the same language). It’s a selfish desire to offload guilt, but he doesn’t truly want to be understood/stopped. In essence eren by the end of the story is limited by no one other than himself. He’s tortured by the weight of his own guilt, his victim - perpetrator arc comes full circle by ‘allowing’ his mother to be killed as a result of bertholt living, and he dies with regret.He admits at the end that he doesn’t know why he’s always sought freedom, as he’s repeated multiple times throughout the manga. It’s a commentary on nature v nurture which ties his parallels to reiner even more closely. The selfish desire that they may have just been born with.It’s been staring us all in the faces pts. He’s never had a valid answer for why he does what he does. He rebukes zeke as he ‘just can’t accept an end like that’, he was ‘born into this world’, or ‘i am just me’. He is not a philosopher and 139 is consistent in that The final nail in his freedom coffin is his inability to change the future. Everyone is a slave to something and eren is a slave to the concept of freedom, but more so he’s a slave to himself. He cannot change the future because, for all his guilt, he cannot change HIMSELF. It’s the truth of eren yeager in all it’s ugliness. He wanted everything that he did. Free will and determinism are not mutually exclusive for yams, in fact it’s only due to eren’s free will that this future is possible. He is who he is and he can never escape from that. Slight headcanon/side point, but i like to think his desire was so strong that is retroactively impacted all holders of the attack titan, much like Karl and his ideology. Ties into ‘to you 2000 years from now’ with eren being the embodiment of ymir’s desire for freedom. p1 end. Part 2: He Wants His Friends To Live Long Lives Something that, again, was weirdly twisted by a portion of the fan base. As he says multiple times, all post time skip btw, this is a core and driving motivator for him. Probably the most selfless of them all in fact Eren has wanted to protect those closest to him from the beginning. He tries to push Mikasa away from the SC, he ‘protects’ armin from bullies, and he even jumps into a titans mouth to save him. It’s a part of his nature, he also fights for those he loves Jumping ahead but this part of his nature is also the reason he can’t stop himself from saving Ramzi. At his core he is also somebody who is unwilling to do nothing when an injustice like this is thrust in his face, no matter how hypocritical that may be. There’s so many instances of eren showing his love for his friends that it would be ridiculous to try to list them but the important thing is that this aspect of his character DOESN’T change post timeskip. All surface level but the takes i see. Cue 130. Zeke asks what he will do about Mikasa’s feelings and he says he will die so there’s no point. He thinks of a new life being brought into this world to enforce the idea that life will go on after he is done, along with his friends. It’s not a retcon but a hint to the ending Sasha and Hange are normally pointed out to ‘disprove’ this but those arguments are flawed. Eren, just like with the blank canvas + securing paradis, has to compromise on this desire or he wouldn’t be able to find a balance between the three of them This is why he gets so angry at Sasha’s death. He hates himself for doing this therefore he laughs at his uselessness like he did with Hannes’ death, he feels the same way. It’s an unavoidable consequence for him to achieve some part of each goal despite how much it hurts him. Each part ties into the ending once again. When armin asks if he did this for them eren doesn’t reply because it’s not the whole truth. Yes it was the most ‘selfless’ aspect of his goals but it wasn’t his only goal and he’s not about to lie and say it is He even openly admits he didn’t know the fate of each of his friends. All he knew was that Mikasa, kills him, and Armin, ‘saviour’, would survive (his two biggest priorities). He was willing to accept that outcome, despite him not WANTING that fate for the rest. The train/cart scene is the most overt display of this desire and there’s really not much else to be added beyond that. He wants to save his friends, even if he knows he can’t fulfil that to the extent he would prefer. end of p2 Part 3: Securing Paradis’ Future + Ending the Titan Cycle I’ve put these into the same category because it best exemplifies the contradictory nature of what eren wants. 100% security from outside threat means no end to the curse. The same thing applies vice versa People will point to chapter 90 as proof eren grew past his desire to wipe out titans but 139 recontextualises this in a way that far better suits his character. He left him alive because he knew there was a chance he’d be turned back. Titans have been the focal point of his trauma since shiganshina, but it’s not just the titans themselves. It’s being forced into 13 years, forced to eat each other and forced to maintain something that turns them into cattle Eren has always wanted to make a difference, from his childhood onwards, so he’s not willing to pass the burden of the TITANS into further generations. He has the power now and he will end it with his own hands This attitude harkens back to the deaths of levi squad. Eren trusted in the ones around him and their deaths made him regret that. However he gets beaten anyway. He can’t trust others and he can’t trust himself either This realisation is pushed to the brink in the cave. World view shattered, lamenting his existence and suicidal, it takes others to give him the courage to move forward again. To be able to trust in himself again, however briefly. Bystanders is vital because it presents an escape from eren’s depression. The story of uselessness is something that resonated with him but Carla’s words allow him to have a more balanced view. He IS special, but not due to his abilities. He’s special because he was born. Pts challenges this improved outlook once again. If he (and everyone else) are special, why must they die purely BECAUSE they were born? It’s wrong, unjust, and unforgivable in his mind. He must do something, it’s his duty, with the power he has.The problem arises here. If he rumbles the entire world, his people would still be forced into eating each other and the objects of his trauma would go unpunished & all his friends may die, but he’ll be able to achieve the blank canvas he selfishly desires. Cue 80% and why it’s accepted as a compromise in his mind. It’s a great tie in of his growth to accept help from others but also his selfishness and need to contribute. He makes them unable to counter immediately, and trusts his friends to find another solution after that. There’s so much hate for this concept when it’s perfectly in line with his characterisation throughout the entire story. He even uses the exact same words at the start of the rumbling that he used as a child screaming post Carla’s death. + end of p3 Conclusion Eren is multifaceted, with contradictory desires, but that doesn’t make him a worse character it makes him more human in a story predicated upon not dehumanising others - literally the point of the titan allegory in the first place 139 shows us the man who’d seen beyond the hell, who had stopped moving forward after achieving his goals (compromised as they were) and was left to be tortured timelessly by the weight of his own guilt. His selfish outburst about mikasa is just that, an outburst, which he immediately takes back. He even says the exact opposite to mikasa herself, canonically after this event. He’s getting his years worth of pent up desires, which he’s never intending to act on, off of his chest before he dies while talking to his best friend. It’s just human and about as out of character as erwin saying he wants to see the basement and letting levi decide 139 also isn’t approval of eren jeager’s actions. He’s painted as lost and regretful, the product of trauma and the ultimate perpetrator. Armin being able to sympathise despite immediately condemning his actions is just a step away from the cycle that’s bound them. Eren holds the duality of almost all of themes of the show within himself by the end which is also a cool interpretation of transcendence. God/Devil, Selfish/Selfless, Victim/Perpetrator, Beauty/Cruelty, Freedom/Slavery and i love that.He ends riddled with hypocrisy, willingly killed at the hands of the one he loved and wanted to protect, with himself as his only true enemy. A fittingly tragic conclusion for the tragic story of Eren Jeager There will be people saying ‘oh it meant nothing who cares’ (like trying to attribute meaning isn’t a huge theme of the manga) but i honestly don’t care for such superficial takes. Eren was WRONG. Just as ymir was too submissive and twisted by her need for connection (not her fault), eren too was broken by his own trauma and his nature. The final pages shows us humans don’t change, but we will also never stop striving for a solution. END Reasons why Other nation won't make peace treaty with Paradis- - Marley already had the support of most of the other nation except Hizuru as we saw in DoW, even if we assume that 1 or 2 more nation joins paradis, Marley still have the upper hand with rest of the world. - Titans were becoming worthless day by day and with invention of Nukes each and every titan would be worthless let it be Founding titan. - So Why'd they try to make friends with those they think are devils instead of developing their arsenal even more. - They think of them as Devils. - Willy Already presented Eren and Paradis as the enemy of the world - No Hizuru literally rejected Hanje's proposal for business with other nation - Paradis need a representative outside of Paradis who is not an Eldian for negotiation and they have got none. - Politicians may want to be friends with Paradis but I think they will take control of whole paradis. Leaving Paradis as just some colony. - Paradis can't retaliate to them as they have already developed Nukes. Also your Japan and America argument is wrong bc It was Japan who was not backing off of WW2, so america had no choice to nuke them to make them surrender. India never had any fearful powers like Titan Power and UK was not taking revenge from India like marley was taking from Eldians. We got the freedom group, Zeke's group was that only Yelena, Onyankopon and others but you saw how it went. Lol Ymir won't let your end happen and Eren will still do it, as its necessary for uplifting Ymir's curse. Also the world don't trust Paradis a bit. They'd think they are just putting an act or something and would force Paradis do to what the world wants to prove themselves. So Paradis ain't free. My God how many times do I have to tell you that Paradis is not 'annihilated', we only saw a town getting bombed. If the whole Paradis was annihilated that kid won't be unscathed. Now why Full rumbling is trash- - Contradicting these important scenes resulting in Eren's character retcon- chapter 089 - the owl said to grisha to do the plan in order to save mikasa, armin and others - chapter 108 - eren wants his friends to live long lives so he will not pass the attack titan to any of them - Eren couldn't save his friends - Ymir's curse is not broken since he killed Mikasa - Due to Civil War Paradis ruins itself and Yes Historia's child or Grand Children are no exception since its War. No one gives a damn who they are. - Racism or not Paradis is got wrecked. Now tell me what did Eren accomplished? How is this end better than the one we got lol For the first case no I am saying if the goal is that he cares for his friends and their descendents stoping a potential racial war that will guarantee their destruction is kinda the most important thing. Again even in the canon ending he hasn't prevented a civil war at all. None seems to have happened anyway so at least up to that point in a full rumbling ending yeah they would have had peace. Civil Wars are bad but it's completely different from a war that would be about two different racial groups trying to entirely eliminate the other. Secondly they have armored trains, bolt action rifles, machine guns, airships and also while not the manga they do show off biplanes in the anime ending S3 Part 2 though it wasn't used beyond that. Even before the timeskip the series took place in a 19th century parallel when you consider the clothing (gas lamps) which makes sense considering everything else. So yeah it's in the 1910's or 20's equivalent. As for your reasons I know that it was established in lore but one doesn't make sense why tons of tiny nations would buddy up with the current world oppressor. It's like saying Vietnam would totally accept Chinese domination because of the Vietnam War. Secondly sure it's evident they are becoming less useful but they don't know actually how long military progression isn't always incredibly obvious. They don't know of nukes at this point they haven't been invented yet. Plus even in the event of nukes it wouldn't be hard to just put Eren on some boat and use the founding titan. Those gigantic titans consider what they are able to shave off would need pretty high grade ballistics I would argue to kill all of them. Also they don't have it which is why it makes sense to play former enemies off each other while they develop them. Again why does the world actually trust Willy an Eldian if said world wouldn't be able to trust other Eldians from Paraidse if they showed their power just against Marley and didn't act the aggressor? The guy is a devil right? Why do all of the world's politicians trust him when you can't trust devils right? The fact they can shows it would be possible for Paradise to eventually ingratiate themselves in the world play. Again more negotiating is possible and I mean they do Onyankopon I think would be up for it. You had the dude Sasha seduced. Plus again in reality I don't buy that everyone would still be beyond working with Eldia to suit their own goals. People will do it with former enemies that are nuclear powers all the time. The only way I can buy it is if people think Eren is insane but again ways to show that you are just acting in a defensive manner. Also again sure they might end up as colony but that's better than again fucking annihilation. Finally I don't see how talking about the nukes is relevant at all. My point is that again enemies become friends very quickly when looking at other powers they don't trust. Again why then can the world tolerate some Eldians it's because they don't know their intent and think they are going to try and kill them all. That's a theme of AOT right? Though again that mean's a defensive posture is still possible in some cases. Also dude it's highly likely after a group killed 80% of the world they aren't just going in there to destroy the state. Everyone else would want total genocide in revenge. Their ancestors would have brought them up in pure hate and the ecosystems out there probably were devastated. Also for your full: That doesn't contradict it at all? He can save his friends with full rumbling. Secondly again using full doesn't mean he has to pass the Attack Titan at all that's only the case for deterant or Zeke. The others WTF are you talking about. Eren if he truly wanted to ensure peace would just use the powers of the titans to keep his friends out of harms way through Paths and then use it to wipe out the world. He may value freedom but his friends easily could have died in the OG ending if he screwed up even a bit when they were zipping around. He was content to throw them in prison while he did his thing. He really valued their freedom lol. Also again Civil War is not ensured to be prevented in what Eren did. Plus again dude how is Paradise getting wrecked everyone else is fucking dead. I am not going to respond to that essay on Eren until you actually explain this crucial factor because it's worthless if this can't be explained. Will be honest even a Code Geass intentional or not where Mikasa and co defeat him before he puts it into action would make more sense and I would have been semi content with that. I could at least see the world not being total gun ho on killing everyone if the titans were gone and the primary antagonist Eren was out of the way. Even if that meant Eldia likely would be treated unlikely that well in the end. Marley probably would fall apart eventually like most Imperial powers. |
BilboBaggins365Aug 2, 2021 10:39 PM
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