I don't get it. Why did everyone hate the ending?

Nobody5464 said:

Someone trying to do something in a story doesn't mean the story approves of that thing. Yes eren thought genocide was an option and some crazy people like flock and the yeagerists agreed but the story explicitly goes out of its way to show their in the wrong. So no it doesn’t support genocide. And dude did you even read the story? Paradi was on tract to have a full blown civil war even had eren succeeded and this was called out by several characters you including most of the surviving main characters and that asian lady who straight up says killing everyone won’t end conflict your just making the world smaller. Even had the rumbling succeeded the people of paradi would have eventually started killing each other. This is one of the core story themes of the work.

deg said:


and did you read the final chapter of the manga? Historia united the whole Paradis to become a Military State and shouting that motto of Eren "if they do not win or fight then they will lose and die" and Eren himself said the rest of the world will not be able to make war with Paradis for decades because the Rumbling is 80% done on humanity so obviously the fans of Eren and The Rumbling will say why not Eren did 100% of the Rumbling for the rest of the world

i do not know how this simple thoughts gets overlook by you dont be a blind fanboy

Nobody5464 said:


The island United because they were high on a “victory”/martyrdom of eren but that unity didn’t make everyone happy and the country wasn’t stable. Eventually they’d start in fighting. Just look at the date of the island earlier in the series for proof of that. They genuinely believes they were the only humans on earth and they even had a common enemy in the Titans and yet they were killing each other all the time. Killing everyone would not have made the island eternally peaceful. Do you not know how countries work? Fans of eren wanting him to have killed everyone doesn't mean the story supports genocide. Fans do not define a story. The story never once says genocide is acceptable and in fact even eren the perpetrator of said genocide goes out of his way to say that his actions are unjustifiable and unforgivable. You are looking for ways to say the story promotes something it doesn't to justify your outrage rather than basing your response on what actually is shown.

deg said:


"thank you for being a mass murderer for us Eren" - Armin and no matter what other translation or words they replace it with the message is clear that Armin is thankful for The Rumbling or Eren that did the genocide

damn i know fiction can be interpreted in many ways but youre not even considering how controversial this Rumbling stuff is lol and the fact that many Eren and Yeagerist fans wants The Rumbling to be 100% done on the rest of the world do tell how much they interpret the story message that way

Nobody5464 said:


He calls it a mistake that same line. He’s thanking eren for caring about them enough to do something that ridiculous for them he isn’t condoning it. If he condoned it he wouldn’t have tried to stop him. What the fans wanted to happen doesn't matter in a discussion of what the story tried to present. It wouldn’t matter if literally every fan wanted the rumbling to succeed if the story tells us it’s not a good thing and shouldn’t happen the story isn’t condoning it just because some fans are. The story tells us over and over that it’s not ok so it’s not condoning it.

deg said:


lol a story is meant to be openly interpreted by its fans wtf are you saying heck the editor and Isayama himself makes excuses for this pro genocide interpretation if you do not want to call it a message

youre too bias with your own interpretation

engich said:
You continue with your "genocide is shown to be bad" when Yama made every plan except the full rumbling impossible for Paradis survival.

What's the difference between Eren's rumbling and Zeke's plan? It's Armin's life. Basically Eren's plan -> next Paradis generations are dead, Eren's friends managed to live for some time, 80% of human population is dead. Zeke's plan -> there's no next generations, Armin is dead in ~8-9 years but other friends probably will live, 80% of human population is alive (well, there'll be much less casualties if Eren only rumbled military bases, so it's not 80% for sure).

Isayama didn't even bother to give alliance some plan for Paradis. Their whole agenda is "yeah, Paradis will be fucked but genocide is bad!". Yeah, it's bad but you can't write full rumbling as the only solution for Paradis, make alliance literally agree with Floch that they'll doom Paradis by stopping Eren and hope for all your audience to root for alliance.

And no, civil wars don't destroy countries to dust. Civil war in not full carpet bombing like shown in extra pages.

Cycle of hatred was never between people in general, it was between Paradis and outside world. Stopping the first one is impossible when stopping the second one is possible only with Paradis/outside world annihilation.

If you want to show that people will always fight you can just write full rumbling ending and show that in a few decades people will fight in a civil war.

Nobody5464 said:


Isiyama apolofized for not getting his message across clearly enough which is why people like you think it was pro genocide not for actually having the story be pro genocide, He never did that. Also fans wanting eren to have killed everyone because their edgy isn’t the same thing as the story telling them he should have killed everyone.

deg said:


and that is the thing Isayama has not made it clear plus Isayama got far right political views anyway so you cannot blame people for interpreting it that way

you keep saying Armin is just thankful for Eren for saving them but you cannot deny that they are saved through genocide

Nobody5464 said:


Armin is thankful eren cares about them so much and knows now he won’t be able to stop 80% of people from dying only stop 100% from dying so he thanks eren for caring and promises not to waste the opportunity erens colossal mistake will give him.

deg said:


sure that is your own interpretation youre denying they are saved through genocide big time and replace it with the words "colossal mistake" lol you cannot even properly say colossal titans aka the rumbling

ever heard of the saying "hate the sin and not the sinner?" that is what Armin is trying to do here he knows too that genocide is wrong but its what saved them so genocide here becomes a necessary evil

you even ignored the far right political views of Isayama too

so im tired already with talking with you about this, thats all for me

deg said:


sure that is your own interpretation youre denying they are saved through genocide big time and replace it with the words "colossal mistake" lol you cannot even properly say colossal titans aka the rumbling

ever heard of the saying "hate the sin and not the sinner?" that is what Armin is trying to do here he knows too that genocide is wrong but its what saved them so genocide here becomes a necessary evil

you even ignored the far right political views of Isayama too

so im tired already with talking with you about this, thats all for me

Vinicius234 said:



With all due respect, thats no novelty. the alliance were hipocrites that wanted the results even if half assed, but not the means. It was impossible for them to "win" and not reap anything from erens deeds. Thats exactly what the yeagerist had been vocal for years, either genocide was framed superficially but actually praised in a meta narrative way (alliance win), or it was framed alongside the world as an horrible outcome seeked by a objectively terrible world, no matter if it superficially seemed otherwise (ANR).

Every other mid ground, like the alliance being killed either by the rest of the world or executed by the island after finishing eren, would conduce to paradis extinctiond and thus genocide being uphold passively once again.

BlossomBurst said:
I just finished, and though I didn't love the final battle and the weird way no one hated Eren nor care for the little glowing spine worm, but like, what was so bad about it? It worked and was alright, even if it wasn't mindblowing or unexpected.

For one, I really liked how Eren failed in the end to end all war by making himself the one shared enemy. Also I really like how Eren's stoic facade falls apart similarly to what happened after Sasha in the airboat, and how the ending makes it so that they don't need titan solutions to human issues, but human solutions (i.e. diplomacy).

Even with the extra 8 pages with Ymir and the future adding even more, why do people hate this?

edit: also it's cool how titans and the desire for life are intertwined

PeaceForeverMe said:
He didn’t fuck the generic blonde waifu. That’s why they hate it.

Ermatica said:
They’re angry because “muh emo boy.” They’re mad eren wasnt a one dimensional edgelord doing evil for the sake of being an edgy little shit. People like requiem more because it shits on the kind of character eren originally was: a sympathetic villain. He didn’t want to do any of what he was doing but he was bound by the shackles of fate. He even begs Hange for another way because he *doesn’t want to go through with the genocide.* But requiem shits all over that and it becomes erens *choice* to proceed with it rather than his path being paved by the hands of fate. He becomes the shitty fakedeep edgelord people are mad he never was in canon. Sure, the ending wasn’t great but AOT is still going to go down as a classic and it’s still enjoyable all the way through whether or not the ending was what you were expecting.

BilboBaggins365 said:


Sigh lots of people have given their reasons and no it's not just because emo boy didn't win. Literally you can read in this thread why I didn't like it but fanboys going to fanboy and strawman anyone who disagrees with them.

Also making it about fate kinda kills a lot of the actual drama once again as it kinda undermines the whole journey of Eren as a character down to I had to do all of this and wasn't influenced by the elements of the story at all. It just makes his whole character cheap which fine but if anything that keeps undermining the quality of the story as a whole.

I think FMAB has a vastly better story/end and that was a happy end so again it's not just because I want my EDGE it's just that is how Isayama set the story up to end. If he wanted to avoid that he really needed to do a better job setting up the alliance which he didn't. In the end story ends in a edge fest anyway lol if you count the last chapters it's just not a very good one.

Regardless sure AOT might be remembered like Death Note and Naruto in that it was very popular and had influence on the industry but like DN and Naruto I will be surprised if people totally accept that ending as amazing compared to say series that get praise for their endings like Bebop or FMA but again it's all a matter of opinion.

Ermatica said:


If you didn’t want the EDGE then I wasn’t referring to you. But I’ve seen too many people dismiss the ending *just* because Eren wasn’t a heartless genocidal edgelord maniac. I’m not a fanboy and I don’t think the ending of the series was godteir but it wasn’t unbearably bad and I think Requiem butchers Erens character as well as the ending more than Isayama did.

BilboBaggins365 said:


You didn't make any differentiation and again while sure some people just always want edge Isayama didn't help matters. I highly doubt ANR is going to be that well written but having a tragic Eren kills everyone outside the walls ending would have been vastly better than how the current ending is. It keeps his character consistent and the theme of the story as well (going back to what Erwin and Pixis have said).

If he wanted to go for more heart warming the world is better off ending he needed to do things differently. He wrote himself into a corner. As annoying as overt Eren fanboys ended up becoming it's not like Isayama didn't cultivate them.

-X3RX3S- said:
The guy you replied is correct on Eren's part about the Anr.

Eren never put his own freedom above his friends, there's not even one scene where he prioritized himself over his friends and this scene clearly shows that Eren would have never went the Anr route-



Eren's Goal was never just to save Paradise. His goal was to save 'Mikasa, Armin' and everyone on the Paradise Island and AnR completely contradicts Eren's goal and just make him into a Heartless Monster who'd do anything for his freedom which he is clearly not.

Seha_123 said:
It's not just the ending the whole last arc was shit

BlossomBurst said:

It didn't influence my opinion, I was just curious why everyone overhyped how bad it was

JosephSaber40 said:
@Nobody5464

have you forgotten that Armin thanked Eren for becoming a murderer Mikasa continued to love the mass maniac who destroyed 80% of the planet, what about the alliance who mourned Eren's death, Eren's actions weren't condemned by the alliance, this disgusting story glorifies hypocrisy?

engich said:


Sorry sister but all alliance members went from "perish nightmare" to "I wanted to talk to him... (sob)" in like 2 chapters, they only wanted to stop Eren because he threatened their parents. You can pull your mental gymnastics as much as you want but narratively Eren is treated as a hero for murdering 80% humanity, his own familty and sacrificing Paradis for his ~7 friends (yeah, including Pieck, Annie and other warriors).

Nobody5464 said:


It’s not mental gymnastics to see that none of his friends wanted him to kill the world.

engich said:


Half of the alliance just wanted to be heroes and the other one stopped Eren just for their parents. Sorry but nobody gave a fuck about outside world people and especially about Paradis people.

engich said:


Half of the alliance just wanted to be heroes and the other one stopped Eren just for their parents. Sorry but nobody gave a fuck about outside world people and especially about Paradis people.

Ermatica said:


If you didn’t want the EDGE then I wasn’t referring to you. But I’ve seen too many people dismiss the ending *just* because Eren wasn’t a heartless genocidal edgelord maniac. I’m not a fanboy and I don’t think the ending of the series was godteir but it wasn’t unbearably bad and I think Requiem butchers Erens character as well as the ending more than Isayama did.

ABDoesThings said:


I don't think you understand that the rumbling was necessary to happen in order for the power of the titans to disappear. The reason it doesn't go against Armin's character is because he understands that there was no other way for the power of the titans to disappear. It's like Avengers Endgame where there was only one way to win and that involved the death of Tony Stark, etc (despite being a remarkably small price to pay). So it's either do you want the power of the titans to continue to exist in human history and cause as much if not more cumulative damage than the rumbling or do you want to rid the titans once and for all, although Isayama does suggest with the extra pages that the cycle is once again to begin which from my perspective as a student of history is fascinating thematically because it captures the repetitive nature of history.

-X3RX3S- said:
if Eren only made enemies than he wouldn't have been able to accomplish 200 years of peace and that's no joke looking at how the world was constantly at war before Marley Invasion. Full Rumbling also have the danger of Civil War, so I would be kinda horrified as Mikasa what I am leaving my kids or grand kids to.

No Zeke's plan would sacrifice Historia and Eren don't want his friends to die. Also Zeke's planned everything assuming that Marley and the world would cower in fear and won't do anything to them in 100 years whereas there's a big [possibility that they could've even develop nuclear bombs when Paradis gets to their current level in 50 years.

200 years of peace was gained. His friends lived a peaceful life. Curse was broken. Also even with full rumbling Paradis was doomed if we go by the themes of AoT. There was a potential for civil war as Paradis is a Goody Two shoes, there's racism, corruption, discrimination and they can destroy a nation's economy, citizens, law and order, food supply resulting in famines and much much more which is a slow death.

Racism and discrimination is of various kinds. Do you remember People living inside the Wall Sina and Rose were living a completely different luxurious life compared to people living in Wall Maria. Whole Uprising arc was how people revolt against there own people. Not to forget Eren himself destroyed a big chunk of Paradis while activating Rumbling. So sooner or LATER it was gonna happen and by later I meant 200 years also but eternal peace is not possible resulting in civil war.

I didn't said you think AnR is better. I was pointing this line out- 'having a tragic Eren kills everyone outside the walls ending would have been vastly better than how the current ending is.'

BilboBaggins365 said:

How would Full Rumbling guarantee a civil war more so than any other alternative where the Eren loyalists and those against him would still be alive? Sure Mikasa and everyone would be horrified but that's hardly different that what he left them to. 80% or 100% you are still the greatest mass murderer in history. It's like saying Hitler isn't so bad because he didn't kill every single Jew in existence.

I also don't know what you mean by if he only made enemies also where did you get that it was 200 years of peace? If you could point me to the panel because the world that they are left in looks like our world I guess the world would be in much worse state but it would be like 100 years at most into the future. It's been awhile since I read it.

Yeah I know Zeke's plan would require sacrifice but again Eren still condemns future generations of people he cares about to death plus you know the mass genocide of innocents thing. I mean if the point he could care less about his friend's descendants and just his friends fine that still incredibly stupid, dumb and short sighted when again he had the possibility of ending the conflict permanently. If I was Mikasa I would deeply hate him.

Plus people might say it's in character but sorry killing literally billions of people because of one girl he developed an emotion bond with again just makes me think this douche bag lol. That is really terrible character writing and an incredibly morally bankrupted individual. Sure I guess that could be a good character but I didn't feel that was at all developed in the case of Eren.

Full Rumbling would guarantee peace for the Eldians for a time. There would be conflict possibly yes but here is the thing like I previously said why wasn't there conflict already in the canon timeline when the Yeagerists basically nationalists realized what Eren condemned them too? A non full rumbling doesn't just give Eldia more unity than if it was full.

Plus if they went with original plan of using it as deterrent you might have gotten some of the more nationalists to come around by slaughtering Marley's invading force of the oppressors and directly working with the moderates within the government. Sure not forever but the series is right that while an external threat doesn't guarantee peace forever once you especially defeat it that threat still is incredibly useful in terms of unity.

Like you argue somehow Isayama's canon ending stops all of what you are talking about it doesn't. At least even in the event of civil war some of their descedents could survive they had no such chance against the rest of the world. Ultimately I will continue to hold to this Isayama doesn't know how to write a good political thriller/war drama because stuff like this isn't considered.

Also yeah a final Eren kills everyone tragic ending would have been better because it would at least make sense and would fit the themes of AOT better (the whole people won't stop fighting until only one is left) than whatever this current garbage is.

-X3RX3S- said:
I never said that current ending does not gurantee that. Ofc. it can happen as you said- people won't stop fighting until only one is left. What I am getting at is that Eren accomplished nothing more with Full rumbling than 80%. Heck he even accomplished less as he couldn't accomplish his friends' long life. Yes he is still the greatest mass murder who disagreed with you lol. I was saying killing everyone is just nonsense if the outcome is going to be same or worse.

Its not explicitly mentioned 200 years but its somewhat between 150-200 not 100 years since in rumbling timeline there were only Horse carts but in the last pages there's cars from 80's and 90's and the plane looks like modern fighter jets.

How can he end the conflict permanently when you yourslef stated that- 'people won't stop fighting until only one is left'. Eternal peace is an impossible thing to begin with. Well don't you think Historia would hate him even more if he did full rumbling and still there were civil war happening in the paradis for the reasons i already mentioned.

You are just decreasing his character so much dude. Here's the analysis, read it as to why I think you are wrong- https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1941504

Like I said conflict was possible in canon timeline also, its just that Yams decided to portray it differently.

No it was already stated that other nations do not want to have any connections with Paradis and Hizuru won't let Paradis to make connection. The threat is useful until they don't develop Nukes after that even Founding titan can't do shit. In civil war some descendants would survive but like you said- 'people won't stop fighting until only one is left' so it does not really make any difference, also we only saw Shiganshina or any other town getting bombed so we don't really know that everyone died or not. If whole paradis was bombed that child shouldn't be alive.

How?? It will contradict-

- chapter 089 - the owl said to grisha to do the plan in order to save mikasa, armin and others
- chapter 108 - eren wants his friends to live long lives so he will not pass the attack titan to any of them

With full rumbling Civil war might happen which will continue the cycle of hatred as 'people won't stop fighting until only one is left' making Eren's action much more useless as he couldn't even save his friends. Trashier end than the supposedly 'current garbage end'.

The Extra pages fit the themes of SnK really well as it also shows us that- 'people won't stop fighting until only one is left', 'Humanity will never learn', Eternal peace and breaking the cycle of hatred is impossible. Its not like world will become lovey-dovey after Paradis is gone [which is not even fully confirmed]. They will still wage war with each other like how Marley and Fort Slava were in war for 4 years.

BilboBaggins365 said:

Uh no if he goes 100% the possibility of being killed off by the outside world is gone. Sure there is the possibility of civil war but even in that circumstance there would be no racial cleansing for the Eldians at least and likely his friends children would survive unlike the future 80% condemns them to which is guaranteed destruction at some point.

Secondly again if we are just basing this off judgement if time moves like it did in our timeline which seems to be the case when you consider the other jumps in the AOT world the series takes place in an advanced version of the maybe the late 1910's or 1920s. To get to the period the ending takes place in which looks like our own it's only likely 80 to 100 years ahead. That is how long Eren guaranteed peace so while Mikasa and co might get to live out their lives their children and children's children are fucked.

Also I think Historia would hate him that their future children are doomed and again either way he hasn't stopped a civil war. If Historia or anyone else cared about being humane then again Zeke or the deterrant plan is better. At least full rumbling Eldia to some degree survives the other choice saved no one long term and 80% of the world died just so a few people got to live their lives in peace confined likely on the island. Real freedom they got there lol.

Also I am not going to read another poster you are free to actually explain to me because if you can't undermine this fact there is no way his characterization is good because this doesn't make sense and it's the most crucial point for his character and the ending.

Finally Hizuru was to some degree willing they just wanted to exploit them partially to get Mikasa (regardless it would have been fun to have some actual political bargaining and intrigue in the story more so than what we got) in the end but again if Isayama's world it partially doesn't make sense why nations under Marley wouldn't try to use the titans that Eldia has to overthrow them. It's something that should be explored because while some of them view them as monsters any pragmatic politician would see yesterday's enemies as tomorrow's friends. You look at nations like India which have made friends with Anglo allies like the UK and USA to counter current China despite the past or Japan with the USA. Isayama only really develops the Marley and Eldia side so we never get to see if the titans really are just enough for people to choose likely domination by Marley over maybe potential freedom supporting groups that oppressed them in the past. Like there were former solidiers willing to help them from other nations to argue it would be just these few dudes doesn't seem logical to me especially when you look at the history of international relations.

That said again personally above all even though this is possible way of developing the story for a simple end would be to have Armin and co stop Eren from using the Rumbling because then at that point it at least could have been reasonable for maybe some people in the Marlyean military who had sympathies to save them or again full destruction of the world.

Again also full Rumbling guarantees not future annihilation that is the only difference between them. So how is it the trashier end? Again explain this because you have failed to in both posts.

-X3RX3S- said:
So you are saying Killing each other is fine as long as its not racial. That's wierd. At what basis are saying that- 'his friends children would survive unlike the future 80% condemns them to which is guaranteed destruction at some point.' Why can they survive the civil war, Oh wait his friend's children don't exist since he killed his friend lol. Leaving only historia's child behind and she can also get killed.

No, its not based on 1910 or 1920 because in WW1 had heavy usage of Aircrafts whereas there's no aircraft during the rumbling timeline. Also Telephone was invented in 1875 and there's no usage of telephone up until the end. So yeah My point still stands.

You are really stuck up on Zeke's plan when I clearly mentioned it was based on a big assumption that Marley and the world would cower in fear in place of developing better arsenal.

Okay I'll explain but it will be long ass-



Reasons why Other nation won't make peace treaty with Paradis-

- Marley already had the support of most of the other nation except Hizuru as we saw in DoW, even if we assume that 1 or 2 more nation joins paradis, Marley still have the upper hand with rest of the world.
- Titans were becoming worthless day by day and with invention of Nukes each and every titan would be worthless let it be Founding titan.
- So Why'd they try to make friends with those they think are devils instead of developing their arsenal even more.
- They think of them as Devils.
- Willy Already presented Eren and Paradis as the enemy of the world
- No Hizuru literally rejected Hanje's proposal for business with other nation
- Paradis need a representative outside of Paradis who is not an Eldian for negotiation and they have got none.
- Politicians may want to be friends with Paradis but I think they will take control of whole paradis. Leaving Paradis as just some colony.
- Paradis can't retaliate to them as they have already developed Nukes.

Also your Japan and America argument is wrong bc It was Japan who was not backing off of WW2, so america had no choice to nuke them to make them surrender. India never had any fearful powers like Titan Power and UK was not taking revenge from India like marley was taking from Eldians.

We got the freedom group, Zeke's group was that only Yelena, Onyankopon and others but you saw how it went.

Lol Ymir won't let your end happen and Eren will still do it, as its necessary for uplifting Ymir's curse. Also the world don't trust Paradis a bit. They'd think they are just putting an act or something and would force Paradis do to what the world wants to prove themselves. So Paradis ain't free.

My God how many times do I have to tell you that Paradis is not 'annihilated', we only saw a town getting bombed. If the whole Paradis was annihilated that kid won't be unscathed.

Now why Full rumbling is trash-

- Contradicting these important scenes resulting in Eren's character retcon- chapter 089 - the owl said to grisha to do the plan in order to save mikasa, armin and others
- chapter 108 - eren wants his friends to live long lives so he will not pass the attack titan to any of them

- Eren couldn't save his friends
- Ymir's curse is not broken since he killed Mikasa
- Due to Civil War Paradis ruins itself and Yes Historia's child or Grand Children are no exception since its War. No one gives a damn who they are.
- Racism or not Paradis is got wrecked.

Now tell me what did Eren accomplished? How is this end better than the one we got lol