Forum SettingsEpisode Information
Forums
Attack on Titan
Available on Manga Store
New
This topic has been locked and is no longer available for discussion.
Pages (136) « First ... « 132 133 [134] 135 136 »
Dec 9, 2020 12:37 PM
Offline
Nov 2019
798
HyperL said:
MironBiron said:

No no no! It's decent! It just isn't something that I would normally watch if it wasn't for the source material. I look for certain, cinematographic elements in anime and Attack on Titan used to have a lot of them, but those seem to be lacking in the first episode of its Final Season.


Cinematographic elements such as what? Unorthodox and changing angles ala Eren vs Reiner in S2? Zoom out scenes like whenever a bunch of soldiers traveled on horseback? Multiframe sakuga moments like whenever Levi was the focus?
MironBiron said:
HyperL said:
Is this season really that fucked to you?

No no no! It's decent! It just isn't something that I would normally watch if it wasn't for the source material. I look for certain, cinematographic elements in anime and Attack on Titan used to have a lot of them, but those seem to be lacking in the first episode of its Final Season.
lacking? Are you sure you watched the episode? Did you miss that huge cinematic shot of the bird and camera flying over the fort? That was amazing, and this is only the first episode so I don't think it's fair to judge how the cinematography will be based on what is arguably the weakest episode in terms of story and action
Dec 9, 2020 1:00 PM
Offline
Oct 2015
1221
MironBiron said:
MAQS said:
Animation quality is important, but AOT did not became the beloved series it is today with S1 or 2 or s3 p1 but with S3 p2, despite that season having a clear downgrade in animation, it still managed to enthroned AOT as a great series,

But S3P2 still had its very own and distinct audiovisual identity that had been crafted by a group of talented individuals over a period of 7 years. It might be lacking in animation but literally every frame is filled with so much research and identity that it can easily withstand its animation-bond limits.

mab03 said:
Mostly agree with you.the second season was in different level but don't act like all of the seasons were that good.s3p2 lacked the most of things you mentioned too.storyboards were copy of manga panels ,no creative choice except imai action work),some scenes weren't translated good from manga to anime,the art was't as good as before,a lot of off models.at least for me the show lost a lot of its positive things(which made the show different with others) in s3 p2.

I don't agree with this. S3P2, while being a much more limited adaptation, is still exploding with solid cinematographic and directional choices that all carry within them the distinctive identity of Attack on Titan.

Whether that's the beautiful camerawork during the transformation in "The Town Where It All Began", the perfectly scored monologue in "Thunder Spears", the easily readable layers of poetic flashbacks in "Descent", the clouds of blood in "Perfect Game", the perfectly staged, overwhelmingly tragic character moments in "Hero", the intense and deeply personal usage of close-ups in "Midnight Sun", the scenery/ruin porn in "The Basement", the fairytale-like storyboards in "That Day", the dancing, cloudy skies in "The Attack Titan" or the brightly saturated faces and backgrounds in "To the Other Side of the Wall", Attack on Titan: Season 3 Part 2 is still filled with identity in each and every corner.


S3 p2 is the most shot for shot remake of the manga the anime has ever gotten, it still great because Isayama paneling is great, but its nowhere near the level of even S3p1 which was also a downgrade in that perspective from S2.

In those aspect the first ep of the final season is better, only S2 or 1 surpass it imo.

You are elevating the technical aspects of S3p2 while downplaying its story.

I remember the first time I watched S3 p2 and overall I had mixed feeling when it ended because I could tell from a first watch how low the adaption had fallen from S2, of course I already read the manga so I knew what was gonna happen, so I focused on the adaptation watching it weekly, My sister whom I introduced to AOT and 2 of my other friends loved it to bits, they also were manga readers, but not that into anime overall like me, to them it looked just as good as the previous seasons.

Afterward when I marathoned it all, going in with a kinda disappointing mood, and behold, I felt the same way I felt when I read ch 82 and 83. even better because I was focusing on the story, and the voice acting, OST it all hit just as hard, specially ep 59, hearing the way Eren spoke those final words, oh man I still get goosebumps.

Dec 9, 2020 1:07 PM
Offline
Apr 2018
403
I_Am_Freeballing said:

The Reiner transformation is easily one of the best of the series to me, coupled with the score which, although overused, was never misplaced. The added anime only scenes of harsh treatment of Eldians along with the inhumane airborne operation were handled beautifully, again using the very same score. It was extremely uncomfortable.


Agree with these points a lot. The Reiner transformation itself looked fantastic but the sudden floppy looking armoured titan in the air was jarring to say the least
Dec 9, 2020 1:08 PM

Offline
Oct 2013
12258
SethBigBoss said:
@keragamming
the first episode of snk looks 10x times better.


Lmao with all the blurr and cgi it looks 10x better than jjk? Yeah sure


Maybe its because of the art style but it just doesn't impress me, looks like your typical anime if that makes sense and the sakuga scenes weird as if they skip some frames. I have only watch 3 episodes though.

deg said:
keragamming said:


The same for jjk as well and no one is going pointing out that since persons always said, jjk is being priotize more than snk, so to them jjk production is perfect, but on a second thought jjk is much easier to produce than snk, because it looks really average looking and the first episode of snk looks 10x times better. Though I only watch 3 episodes of that series.

Also the production schedule has always been hell, acting like this is news when we new this all along.

I still come to this thread for interesting info, but if it's all about how the production is hellish, then its best I avoid it.


dude lol im just stating a fact that JJK is still top priority of MAPPA because they are more higher in the production committee of it thats it i do not mean anything more than that just stating a fact lol

heck they are just slightly ahead than in the production committee of Attack on Titan so the final season will get priority for them too since the profit will be crazy if they delivered good

also in terms of first episode JJK has better animation or movements than Attack on Titan final season for sure

yes the production has always been hell but now its more hellish that even WIT studio quit and now MAPPA uses 3DCG for all main titans just to speed up the production (but personally im fine with 3DCG) and the 2D animation is just average on the first episode compared to other high profile shows and for a 1 cour show too


That is not facts! First of all there is a high chance that snk budget is far bigger than jjk, you said it yourself cgi cost more money and we are hearing all titans are cgi, so not because jjk is third in another production committee does not mean its budget or that it is being priotiaze more than snk.

Not to mention snk required way more resource and time than jjk, here is how you see it jjk is priotize more simple because it is 3rd in the production committee, this is a flase way of looking at it not knowing if the production committee for snk is far bigger/ putting in way more money than the production committee for jjk, meaning Mappa could be putting in more money in snk than jjk, jjk could be third in their committee but the money mappa is putting in is still lower than what they are putting in for snk.

FYI Cao himself said that its a completely different team working on snk, your statement would make more sense if it was the same team working on it.
keragammingDec 9, 2020 1:21 PM
Dec 9, 2020 1:13 PM

Offline
Nov 2008
940
I_Am_Freeballing said:
I dare say you wouldn't be nearly as critical as you are had you gone into this as an anime only. While the manga is great, both WIT and Mappa so far have improved upon it.

I switched to the manga out of fear that the anime would become what it is right now and I'm happy because of that.

I don't think Reiner's transformation was close to being one of the best in the entire series. The texture was missing from his face, the jolts of lightning are less detailed than they used to be, and the transformation itself looked less fleshy, less realistic, more cartoony than previous ones. The treatment of Eldians was shown hastily, with no focus or patience, the triumphant music didn't quite reflect the war crimes either. They literally sucked the horror out of that scene using the PV score, not having the patience or focus to pause and reflect during a single shot. I mean it's all decent because of the incredible source material but it isn't even nearly handled with the mature treatment that it deserved for being the amazing and poetic work of literature that it is.

Tthe two-dimensional storyboarding/framing during the battlefield scenes as well as some of the trench scenes didn't quite make the episode as immersive as it should've been either.

The trench setting was amazing (although the character drawings had to be blurred to shit to make the difference in quality between the two less apparent), and so was the inside (although only shown rapidly) of Fort Slava, as well as the airship's interior (still, frames were blurred to shit to make the quality difference between background and character design less apparent).

The actual in-between backgrounds and overviews aren't very good though. You won't be able to find a single background shot in WIT Studio's Attack on Titan that lacks as much detail as the following one:



My least favorite thing about the episode/preview of the next episode is probably the usage of static manga expressions on moving characters. Animated images ask for a different approach to facial expression, using the frozen and extremely characteristic expressions in moving images gives off amateurish, unrealistic vibes. It isn't completely bad by any means but it isn't quite smart either. The staff already spoke about their struggle to animate the character expressions from the manga and probably had to resort to the least time consuming solution.

This just isn't the kind of production that I would watch if I didn't happen to love its source material. It's decent but not unique in any sense, which is sad.
Dec 9, 2020 1:16 PM

Offline
Sep 2012
74
I_Am_Freeballing said:
MironBiron said:

But S3P2 still had its very own and distinct audiovisual identity that had been crafted by a group of talented individuals over a period of 7 years. It might be lacking in animation but literally every frame is filled with so much research and identity that it can easily withstand its animation-bond limits.


I don't agree with this. S3P2, while being a much more limited adaptation, is still exploding with solid cinematographic and directional choices that all carry within them the distinctive identity of Attack on Titan.

Whether that's the beautiful camerawork during the transformation in "The Town Where It All Began", the perfectly scored monologue in "Thunder Spears", the easily readable layers of poetic flashbacks in "Descent", the clouds of blood in "Perfect Game", the perfectly staged, overwhelmingly tragic character moments in "Hero", the intense and deeply personal usage of close-ups in "Midnight Sun", the scenery/ruin porn in "The Basement", the fairytale-like storyboards in "That Day", the dancing, cloudy skies in "The Attack Titan" or the brightly saturated faces and backgrounds in "To the Other Side of the Wall", Attack on Titan: Season 3 Part 2 is still filled with identity in each and every corner.

You are still the most reasonable person here but you speak as if S4E1 had none of those. The Reiner transformation is easily one of the best of the series to me, coupled with the score which, although overused, was never misplaced. The added anime only scenes of harsh treatment of Eldians along with the inhumane airborne operation were handled beautifully, again using the very same score. It was extremely uncomfortable. The censorship was done really well too, close-ups and backgrounds were as great and reminded me of WIT IMO. They changed the whole trench setting and have improved upon it and while skies may not be as 'popping' as WIT's, I find them much more fitting and realistic. The deeply contrasted/saturated color palette of WIT is not something I will miss, as I believe the duller one Mappa uses along with the infamous blur effect makes the whole package somehow 'lived in' if you will. IMO, in the worst case, S4E1 is still only as bad as the average WIT episode. Saying this, I believe your disappointment comes from reading the manga during the transition period from WIT to Mappa. I dare say you wouldn't be nearly as critical as you are had you gone into this as an anime only. While the manga is great, both WIT and Mappa so far have improved upon it.


basically my thoughts, thank you.
Dec 9, 2020 1:19 PM
Offline
Oct 2015
1221
MironBiron said:
I_Am_Freeballing said:
I dare say you wouldn't be nearly as critical as you are had you gone into this as an anime only. While the manga is great, both WIT and Mappa so far have improved upon it.

I switched to the manga out of fear that the anime would become what it is right now and I'm happy because of that.

I don't think Reiner's transformation was close to being one of the best in the entire series. The texture was missing from his face, the jolts of lightning are less detailed than they used to be, and the transformation itself looked less fleshy, less realistic, more cartoony than previous ones. The treatment of Eldians was shown hastily, with no focus or patience, the triumphant music didn't quite reflect the war crimes either. They literally sucked the horror out of that scene using the PV score, not having the patience or focus to pause and reflect during a single shot. I mean it's all decent because of the incredible source material but it isn't even nearly handled with the mature treatment that it deserved for being the amazing and poetic work of literature that it is.

Tthe two-dimensional storyboarding/framing during the battlefield scenes as well as some of the trench scenes didn't quite make the episode as immersive as it should've been either.

The trench setting was amazing (although the character drawings had to be blurred to shit to make the difference in quality between the two less apparent), and so was the inside (although only shown rapidly) of Fort Slava, as well as the airship's interior (still, frames were blurred to shit to make the quality difference between background and character design less apparent).

The actual in-between backgrounds and overviews aren't very good though. You won't be able to find a single background shot in WIT Studio's Attack on Titan that lacks as much detail as the following one:



My least favorite thing about the episode/preview of the next episode is probably the usage of static manga expressions on moving characters. Animated images ask for a different approach to facial expression, using the frozen and extremely characteristic expressions in moving images gives off amateurish, unrealistic vibes. It isn't completely bad by any means but it isn't quite smart either. The staff already spoke about their struggle to animate the character expressions from the manga and probably had to resort to the least time consuming solution.

This just isn't the kind of production that I would watch if I didn't happen to love its source material. It's decent but not unique in any sense, which is sad.


Genuine question here, would you say LOGH deserves to be a masterpiece?

Speaking on anime community standards ofc
Dec 9, 2020 1:19 PM
Offline
Oct 2020
526
JJ_jose said:
HyperL said:


Cinematographic elements such as what? Unorthodox and changing angles ala Eren vs Reiner in S2? Zoom out scenes like whenever a bunch of soldiers traveled on horseback? Multiframe sakuga moments like whenever Levi was the focus?
MironBiron said:

No no no! It's decent! It just isn't something that I would normally watch if it wasn't for the source material. I look for certain, cinematographic elements in anime and Attack on Titan used to have a lot of them, but those seem to be lacking in the first episode of its Final Season.
lacking? Are you sure you watched the episode? Did you miss that huge cinematic shot of the bird and camera flying over the fort? That was amazing, and this is only the first episode so I don't think it's fair to judge how the cinematography will be based on what is arguably the weakest episode in terms of story and action


I don't know why @MironBiron was so upset and disapointed, because I was thinking that is because of the concept that he worrying for the use of CGI Titans, but the other things that he seems upset, I really don't see any problems.


I think he judge this so much quickly and influenced by the topics!?
Dec 9, 2020 1:30 PM

Offline
Nov 2008
940
JJ_jose said:
Did you miss that huge cinematic shot of the bird and camera flying over the fort?

You mean the one with the horrid CG mountains that looked like somebody had 3D printed them on top of my screen?

MAQS said:
S3 p2 is the most shot for shot remake of the manga the anime has ever gotten, it still great because Isayama paneling is great, but its nowhere near the level of even S3p1 which was also a downgrade in that perspective from S2.

I just mentioned all those beautiful things bro. What are you trying to say?

All I'm saying is that, despite it being the most poorly produced of all of WIT Studio's seasons, it's still exploding with beautiful and unique displays of identity left and right. We're probably agreeing with each-other when it comes to S3P2, but I just chose to highlight some of its details as an example of things that I personally look for in an anime.

It's definitely the weakest out of all of WIT Studio's seasons but the talent, vision, research and identity in the staff allowed it to keep a distinct look throughout the entire 10 episodes. The story is fantastic, absolutely incredible, but the passion, vision, research and talent (even if it wasn't used as properly as during previous season) that went into its production is just as important as the quality of its story.

MAQS said:
specially ep 59, hearing the way Eren spoke those final words, oh man I still get goosebumps.

It's fucking beautiful and one of the greatest scenes in any anime ever but it wouldn't be as epic as it is right now without Araki's direction, Kazuhiro's compositing and Imai's key animation. Their schedule might've been horrible and Season 3 Part 2 might've suffered from it immensely, but the foundational core of the staff, its experience and its research, still allowed for these moments of brilliance to happen more than one time in the series.

I'm a bit lost right now though.

I'm not trying to bash the current staff after having hyped them up for months, I'm just disappointed in KODANSHA and the higher-ups of MAPPA for proposing/agreeing with a deadline that wouldn't allow for the development of an identity nearly as distinct and classic as the one Attack on Titan needs in order for it to breathe the same air as the renowned masterpieces.
Dec 9, 2020 1:31 PM

Offline
Oct 2013
12258
@MironBiron

Dude I have been watching live reaction been on social media and everywhere possible, the only complaints I have heard is the cgi titans and even then they said it was good or atleast decent I rarely saw comments where people say "the cgi is shit I can't enjoy the series because of it" those are rare comments.

So whether you like it or not, as long they stay faithful and keep doing what they do it will be a classic whether you like it or not.

Also the normal titans don't look cg to me? they look hand drawn? I simple believe they were cgi since the leakers said all titans will be cgi but the normal titans are not cgi at all, I guess they meant all titan shifters are cgi and I misunderstand? If that is the case the Levi scene can still look great and basically titan fights with normal titans.





Can anyone else confirm if the normal titans are cgi? Because they don't look cgi to me, so it seems only titan shifters will be cgi and not all titans.
keragammingDec 9, 2020 1:42 PM
Dec 9, 2020 1:31 PM

Offline
Oct 2020
2066
MironBiron said:
I_Am_Freeballing said:
I dare say you wouldn't be nearly as critical as you are had you gone into this as an anime only. While the manga is great, both WIT and Mappa so far have improved upon it.

I switched to the manga out of fear that the anime would become what it is right now and I'm happy because of that.

I don't think Reiner's transformation was close to being one of the best in the entire series. The texture was missing from his face, the jolts of lightning are less detailed than they used to be, and the transformation itself looked less fleshy, less realistic, more cartoony than previous ones. The treatment of Eldians was shown hastily, with no focus or patience, the triumphant music didn't quite reflect the war crimes either. They literally sucked the horror out of that scene using the PV score, not having the patience or focus to pause and reflect during a single shot. I mean it's all decent because of the incredible source material but it isn't even nearly handled with the mature treatment that it deserved for being the amazing and poetic work of literature that it is.

Tthe two-dimensional storyboarding/framing during the battlefield scenes as well as some of the trench scenes didn't quite make the episode as immersive as it should've been either.

The trench setting was amazing (although the character drawings had to be blurred to shit to make the difference in quality between the two less apparent), and so was the inside (although only shown rapidly) of Fort Slava, as well as the airship's interior (still, frames were blurred to shit to make the quality difference between background and character design less apparent).

The actual in-between backgrounds and overviews aren't very good though. You won't be able to find a single background shot in WIT Studio's Attack on Titan that lacks as much detail as the following one:



My least favorite thing about the episode/preview of the next episode is probably the usage of static manga expressions on moving characters. Animated images ask for a different approach to facial expression, using the frozen and extremely characteristic expressions in moving images gives off amateurish, unrealistic vibes. It isn't completely bad by any means but it isn't quite smart either. The staff already spoke about their struggle to animate the character expressions from the manga and probably had to resort to the least time consuming solution.

This just isn't the kind of production that I would watch if I didn't happen to love its source material. It's decent but not unique in any sense, which is sad.
I was merely arguing that if you didn't familiarize yourself with the source material out of worry, you wouldn't be worrying as much now, because I'm assuming the worry comes from the comparison.
For the rest of the stuff I disagree, or should I say I agree with the criticism but don't think it's necessarily bad. For example, the picture you gave, obviously WIT's are more detailed. What I'm saying is that Mappa one fits, even if less detailed. WIT's is inherently and technically better because it is more detailed, but IMO the detail doesn't need to be there for it to look good, which it does and fits the aesthetic of the whole episode.
Dec 9, 2020 1:41 PM

Offline
Nov 2008
940
MAQS said:
Genuine question here, would you say LOGH deserves to be a masterpiece?

Hell yeah. Best fucking thing ever. It's handled with so much care and every frame is a beauty. LOGH is another show that's exploding with identity.

I_Am_Freeballing said:
I was merely arguing that if you didn't familiarize yourself with the source material out of worry, you wouldn't be worrying as much now, because I'm assuming the worry comes from the comparison.

I'm not worried. It just isn't the type of production that I would ever rank as excellent, or as a classic.

I_Am_Freeballing said:
WIT's is inherently and technically better because it is more detailed, but IMO the detail doesn't need to be there for it to look good, which it does and fits the aesthetic of the whole episode.

How does the detail not need to be there when it's such an ambitious and mature work of fantasy literature with roots grounded in realism? That's like saying Game of Thrones or Berserk don't need detail. Like, how does a background lacking in detail fit the aesthetic of a series drenched in mature themes and realism?
Dec 9, 2020 1:46 PM

Offline
Nov 2008
940
z7ProSpyce said:
I don't know why @MironBiron was so upset and disapointed, because I was thinking that is because of the concept that he worrying for the use of CGI Titans, but the other things that he seems upset, I really don't see any problems.


I think he judge this so much quickly and influenced by the topics!?

My favorite series of all time got sacrificed in favor of a billion dollar company's greed and desperation. That's why I'm disappointed.
Dec 9, 2020 1:52 PM

Offline
Nov 2008
940
keragamming said:
Dude I have been watching live reaction been on social media and everywhere possible, the only complaints I have heard is the cgi titans and even then they said it was good or atleast decent I rarely saw comments where people say "the cgi is shit I can't enjoy the series because of it" those are rare comments.

So whether you like it or not, as long they stay faithful and keep doing what they do it will be a classic whether you like it or not.

First reactions from super fans don't dictate whether something becomes a classic or not.
Dec 9, 2020 1:53 PM

Offline
Jan 2019
778
@keragamming
Yes, the regular titans were 2D most if not all the time, even far away shots were made in 2D. If there were any CGI regular titans, then I don't remember seeing them or I missed them.
Karnox001Dec 9, 2020 1:56 PM
Dec 9, 2020 2:01 PM

Offline
Oct 2020
2066
MironBiron said:

How does the detail not need to be there when it's such an ambitious and mature work of fantasy literature with roots grounded in realism? That's like saying Game of Thrones or Berserk don't need detail. Like, how does a background lacking in detail fit the aesthetic of a series drenched in mature themes and realism?

There is detail in the backgrounds, there are beautiful crisp backgrounds in this episode, there just wasn't in that one and some others. But since I look at it as something that's 'out of focus', I have no problems with it being less detailed. I don't buy that Mappa couldn't create a static detailed background shot, they chose to make this specific background like that to create a depth of field. While Wit's are prettier I do argue the blurred ones are more realistic and I guess that's what I'm trying to say when I say the backgrounds don't all need to be detailed, since they're not detailed intentionally.
Dec 9, 2020 2:03 PM

Offline
Sep 2018
577
Why are you guys even arguing? The only thing people who liked this episode keep saying is:

"I mean, it's not that bad! You are overreacting. I accept CGI was a downgrade, I would prefer 2D titans to but the rest was decent."

The only arguments being this makes it clear that the episode didn't deliver compared to previous seasons. Not everybody may care about the downgrade but people like MironBiron and I do, we didn't want just "decent". You can't convince people to suddenly lower their standards and like the episode when even you would prefer the previous seasons. That's not the say episode was 0/10 and trash, but simply underwhelming.

Also, I'd like to add something as an anime only -I read up to 96 yesterday, otherwise I was anime-only up to this point-: Wit doesn't really altering the panels unless they really improved upon them was the BEST choice if you ask me. You might want to experience some differences because you were already familiar with the manga, but they were fresh to me and Isayama's great panels kept intact was a plus. For example, I read ch91 and ch92 before the first episode and I can confidently say they fucked up the cinematography by heavily changing panels for the worse. Every shot looked like a mugshot, almost every one of them were frontal-zero angle shots with wall/trench behind the characters, and it was plain bad. So, changing the panels isn't always a clear plus, and it's certainly a preference.
Dec 9, 2020 2:04 PM
Offline
Oct 2015
1221
MironBiron said:
MAQS said:
Genuine question here, would you say LOGH deserves to be a masterpiece?

Hell yeah. Best fucking thing ever. It's handled with so much care and every frame is a beauty. LOGH is another show that's exploding with identity.

I_Am_Freeballing said:
I was merely arguing that if you didn't familiarize yourself with the source material out of worry, you wouldn't be worrying as much now, because I'm assuming the worry comes from the comparison.

I'm not worried. It just isn't the type of production that I would ever rank as excellent, or as a classic.

I_Am_Freeballing said:
WIT's is inherently and technically better because it is more detailed, but IMO the detail doesn't need to be there for it to look good, which it does and fits the aesthetic of the whole episode.

How does the detail not need to be there when it's such an ambitious and mature work of fantasy literature with roots grounded in realism? That's like saying Game of Thrones or Berserk don't need detail. Like, how does a background lacking in detail fit the aesthetic of a series drenched in mature themes and realism?


Despite being incredible jarring between the remade scenes and the originals? Ones using cell animation and the others using digital early 2000s animation, and also the fact LOGH has barely anything similar to Sakuga scenes.

And I am talking about my favorite series of all time right here, compare those with the final season and from a technical perspective the final season is quite above LOGH, and that is my point, what matters is the story, the animation is secondary besides it.

And well you know very well the heights this final season can reach with its story, which can still be botched, but judging by ep 1 they can do it.

The problem you have right now is you dont know how to come to terms with it, I hope eventually it happens to you the same thing it happened to me with S3p2

But then again you can also out right reject this season and that would be fine, however speaking our opinions on critical reception, I do think you are having tunnel vision in terms of what people enjoy from anime, that is why I used LOGH example, because it fits so well.
Dec 9, 2020 2:10 PM

Offline
Oct 2020
2066
SirTristram said:
Why are you guys even arguing?
No one is arguing. If you want to notice, we are having a civilized discussion.
Dec 9, 2020 2:11 PM
Offline
Oct 2015
1221
SirTristram said:
Why are you guys even arguing? The only thing people who liked this episode keep saying is:

"I mean, it's not that bad! You are overreacting. I accept CGI was a downgrade, I would prefer 2D titans to but the rest was decent."

The only arguments being this makes it clear that the episode didn't deliver compared to previous seasons. Not everybody may care about the downgrade but people like MironBiron and I do, we didn't want just "decent". You can't convince people to suddenly lower their standards and like the episode when even you would prefer the previous seasons. That's not the say episode was 0/10 and trash, but simply underwhelming.

Also, I'd like to add something as an anime only -I read up to 96 yesterday, otherwise I was anime-only up to this point-: Wit doesn't really altering the panels unless they really improved upon them was the BEST choice if you ask me. You might want to experience some differences because you were already familiar with the manga, but they were fresh to me and Isayama's great panels kept intact was a plus. For example, I read ch91 and ch92 before the first episode and I can confidently say they fucked up the cinematography by heavily changing panels. Every shot looked like a mugshot, almost everyone of them were frontal-zero angle shots with wall/trench behind the characters, and it was plain bad. So, changing the panels isn't always a clear plus, and it's certainly a preference.


The reason I dont argue with you is because you are open to your own ideas being challenged and have a completely cemented opinion on what you like, which is great, we do need your perspective, this thread would be so boring without it

@Miron I tend to reply to you because I feel you are in a different spot.
Dec 9, 2020 2:16 PM
Offline
May 2019
661
I believe what Vercreek said about the schedule is shit or some correction frames were bad are true, but I don`t think he was right about comparing it with OPM S2.

First, we all know about how bad the schedule in AOT, and without the passion of the staff, it would be a disaster. Also, do I think some scenes will look poor? yes as always. But, take into consideration these scenes were not corrected from the CAD yet "as Ajay said".

Now, the main problem is comparing with OPM S2, people until now didn`t know why we didn`t like OPM S2, if the only problem was the lack of 2D animation in some EPs, we will still like it, but the directing, Composition, Background "a little bit", sound choice, were all bad with the lack of animation "Aoki carry the show by himself", so we should know which terms in specific EPs did he compare the finals season with OPM S2 before jumping in the wrong conclusion.

Give a conclusion by looking at some corrections before the CAD role is not the Right Choice for me.
Dec 9, 2020 2:18 PM

Offline
Sep 2018
577
MAQS said:
The reason I dont argue with you is because you are open to your own ideas being challenged and have a completely cemented opinion on what you like, which is great, we do need your perspective, this thread would be so boring without it

@Miron I tend to reply to you because I feel you are in a different spot.


It's not my opinions are cemented, they only can change with a great episode of AoT and not people saying why this episode was good. I think everyone is the same in this regard. For example, you wouldn't hate the episode if I said what I think sucked about it, and me or MironBiron -I'm assuming for him, he can corrects me if I'm wrong- wouldn't love the episode just because you guys are saying what you think was great about it. That's what I meant by my first line. Everyone is persistent and will be persistent, it's natural.

What do you mean by "you are open to your own ideas being challenged"? Rest of the sentence doesn't really make sense considering you said that.
Dec 9, 2020 2:28 PM
Offline
Oct 2015
1221
SirTristram said:
MAQS said:
The reason I dont argue with you is because you are open to your own ideas being challenged and have a completely cemented opinion on what you like, which is great, we do need your perspective, this thread would be so boring without it

@Miron I tend to reply to you because I feel you are in a different spot.


It's not my opinions are cemented, they only can change with a great episode of AoT and not people saying why this episode was good. I think everyone is the same in this regard. For example, you wouldn't hate the episode if I said what I think sucked about it, and me or MironBiron -I'm assuming for him, he can corrects me if I'm wrong- wouldn't love the episode just because you guys are saying what you think was great about it. That's what I meant by my first line. Everyone is persistent and will be persistent, it's natural.

What do you mean by "you are open to your own ideas being challenged"? Rest of the sentence doesn't really make sense considering you said that.


Yes, I was looking for other word aside from opinion.

You have said many times if the season rocks you will be there saying you were wrong, but ofc that can only happen if it meets your expectations, not mine of anyone else on this thread thats what I meant when I said you have a cemented opinion of what you like.
Dec 9, 2020 2:29 PM
Offline
Oct 2020
526
keragamming said:
@MironBiron

Dude I have been watching live reaction been on social media and everywhere possible, the only complaints I have heard is the cgi titans and even then they said it was good or atleast decent I rarely saw comments where people say "the cgi is shit I can't enjoy the series because of it" those are rare comments.

So whether you like it or not, as long they stay faithful and keep doing what they do it will be a classic whether you like it or not.

Also the normal titans don't cg to me? they look hand drawn? I simple believe they were cgi since the leakers said all titans will be cgi but the normal titans are not cgi at all, I guess they meant all titan shifters are cgi and I misunderstand? If that is the case the Levi scene can still look great and basically titan fights with normal titans.






No, this shot when the Titans fall is hand drawn, they used Titans in 2D in this episode for 4 or 5 minutes, this is why I keep saying that we probally have 2D battles and with a GOD clean animation but if the battles is going from full CGI I'm fine with it. I'm curious.

This sequences is 2D:

www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/138878

www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/138868
z7ProSpyceDec 9, 2020 2:42 PM
Dec 9, 2020 2:33 PM
Offline
Oct 2015
1221
z7ProSpyce said:
keragamming said:
@MironBiron

Dude I have been watching live reaction been on social media and everywhere possible, the only complaints I have heard is the cgi titans and even then they said it was good or atleast decent I rarely saw comments where people say "the cgi is shit I can't enjoy the series because of it" those are rare comments.

So whether you like it or not, as long they stay faithful and keep doing what they do it will be a classic whether you like it or not.

Also the normal titans don't cg to me? they look hand drawn? I simple believe they were cgi since the leakers said all titans will be cgi but the normal titans are not cgi at all, I guess they meant all titan shifters are cgi and I misunderstand? If that is the case the Levi scene can still look great and basically titan fights with normal titans.






No, this shot when the Titans fall is hand drawn, they used Titans in 2D in this episode for 4 or 5 minutes, this is why I keep saying that we probally have 2D battles and with a GOD clean animation that no other seasons have, but if the battles is going from full CGI I'm fine with it.

This sequences is 2D:

www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/138878

www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/138868


There was a guy on twitter I dont recall who he was who went to the MAPPA showcase and saw the 3DCGI exhibition, and confirmed Eren is also 3DCGI like Reiner.

This was 2 days ago, after the first ep released.
Dec 9, 2020 2:34 PM
Offline
Nov 2020
43
keragamming said:
@MironBiron


No, this shot when the Titans fall is hand drawn, they used Titans in 2D in this episode for 4 or 5 minutes, this is why I keep saying that we probally have 2D battles and with a GOD clean animation that no other seasons have, but if the battles is going from full CGI I'm fine with it.

This sequences is 2D:

www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/138878

www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/138868


I think the shifters are going to be completely CGI, with just the mindless titans being 2D. There's barely any 2D shots of shifters, and they refrained from using the shots they already had developed just for consistency purposes. I hope the Attack Titan and Warhammer titan are able to look good with this new style.
Dec 9, 2020 2:35 PM

Offline
Sep 2018
577
MAQS said:
Yes, I was looking for other word aside from opinion.

You have said many times if the season rocks you will be there saying you were wrong, but ofc that can only happen if it meets your expectations, not mine of anyone else on this thread thats what I meant when I said you have a cemented opinion of what you like.


I said if this season really surpasses the previous ones like many people were claiming, I would accept I was wrong and apologize for being a negative asshole for no reason. Seeing the first ep now, I don't think anyone who is objective and unbiased could say this was an indeed better start than Wit, so I don't think I was wrong.

What I basically mean is, I materialised my expectations by setting a bar, the bar being the previous seasons. Otherwise it wouldn't make sense and I could say it wasn't good enough for me no matter how great it was

This isn't really relevant to the general direction of the discussion happening here, but I just wanted to clear this since you brought it up. I'm not planning to involve myself with the discussion or hinder it anymore than this.
Dec 9, 2020 2:39 PM
Offline
Oct 2015
1221
SirTristram said:
MAQS said:
Yes, I was looking for other word aside from opinion.

You have said many times if the season rocks you will be there saying you were wrong, but ofc that can only happen if it meets your expectations, not mine of anyone else on this thread thats what I meant when I said you have a cemented opinion of what you like.


I said if this season really surpasses the previous ones like many people were claiming, I would accept I was wrong and apologize for being a negative asshole for no reason. Seeing the first ep now, I don't think anyone who is objective and unbiased could say this was an indeed better start than Wit, so I don't think I was wrong.

What I basically mean is, I materialised my expectations by setting a bar, the bar being the previous seasons. Otherwise it wouldn't make sense and I could say it wasn't good enough for me no matter how great it was

This isn't really relevant to the general direction of the discussion happening here, but I just wanted to clear this since you brought it up. I'm not planning to involve myself with the discussion or hinder it anymore than this.


Never said you were wrong, I actually agree the season is a downgrade, I just have lower standards.
Dec 9, 2020 2:42 PM

Offline
Oct 2013
12258
Karnox001 said:
@keragamming
Yes, the regular titans were 2D most if not all the time, even far away shots were made in 2D. If there were any CGI regular titans, then I don't remember seeing them or I missed them.


This is good news, when I saw the titans I just assume they are cgi, but after looking closer to it I realize they are not, the style of the titans are just different which is why I thought they were cgi, in this case we can still get a lot of sakuga scenes with 3d gears vs titans then, only the titan vs titan battle will be full cgi, that's not that bad.

I already even accepted full cgi, so the trade off overall isn't so bad then, because I had in mind that Mappa went full cgi in all titans, now with it just for titan shifters this doesn't seem too bad at all imo.

@MAQS
We already know all titan shifters will be cgi, what we did thought was all titans will be cgi, but now it seems only titan shifters will be the only ones in cgi. Now I'm thinking if I would rather titan shifters as 2d and normal titans as cgi.... or the opposite, I may pic having normal titan as 2d as I think it would look more jarring with seeing so many cgi titans on screen.

MironBiron said:
keragamming said:
Dude I have been watching live reaction been on social media and everywhere possible, the only complaints I have heard is the cgi titans and even then they said it was good or atleast decent I rarely saw comments where people say "the cgi is shit I can't enjoy the series because of it" those are rare comments.

So whether you like it or not, as long they stay faithful and keep doing what they do it will be a classic whether you like it or not.

First reactions from super fans don't dictate whether something becomes a classic or not.


Agree the story does, logh looks like garbage but that doesn't stop it from being a classic, why? Because the story was that good to many.
keragammingDec 9, 2020 2:47 PM
Dec 9, 2020 2:43 PM
Offline
Oct 2015
1221
What I now wanna bet on is what will they chose to go with, movie/s or part 2....


I guess we will have to wait until march 28, pretty sure they will announced it then.
Dec 9, 2020 2:49 PM

Offline
Jan 2019
778
keragamming said:
Karnox001 said:
@keragamming
Yes, the regular titans were 2D most if not all the time, even far away shots were made in 2D. If there were any CGI regular titans, then I don't remember seeing them or I missed them.


This is good news, when I saw the titans I just assume they are cgi, but after looking closer to it I realize they are not, the style of the titans are just different which is why I thought they were cgi, in this case we can still get a lot of sakuga scenes with 3d gears vs titans then, only the titan vs titan battle will be full cgi, that's not that bad.

I already even accepted full cgi, so the trade off overall isn't so bad then, because I had in mind that Mappa went full cgi in all titans, now with it just for titan shifters this doesn't seem too bad at all imo.


Titan shifters full CGI makes sense because it's same the design everytime. However making every single regular titan in CGI would cost them way more time than just drawing them I think. Also regular titans expressions would be a nightmare to do in CGI. I'm sure regular titans in 2D are way easier to do.

Also I can show you an easy example of why they are 2D if you want.
Dec 9, 2020 2:56 PM

Offline
Oct 2013
12258
Karnox001 said:
keragamming said:


This is good news, when I saw the titans I just assume they are cgi, but after looking closer to it I realize they are not, the style of the titans are just different which is why I thought they were cgi, in this case we can still get a lot of sakuga scenes with 3d gears vs titans then, only the titan vs titan battle will be full cgi, that's not that bad.

I already even accepted full cgi, so the trade off overall isn't so bad then, because I had in mind that Mappa went full cgi in all titans, now with it just for titan shifters this doesn't seem too bad at all imo.


Titan shifters full CGI makes sense because it's same the design everytime. However making every single regular titan in CGI would cost them way more time than just drawing them I think. Also regular titans expressions would be a nightmare to do in CGI. I'm sure regular titans in 2D are way easier to do.

Also I can show you an easy example of why they are 2D if you want.


Go ahead and show me.
Dec 9, 2020 2:56 PM

Offline
Jan 2009
91622
keragamming said:
SethBigBoss said:
@keragamming


Lmao with all the blurr and cgi it looks 10x better than jjk? Yeah sure


Maybe its because of the art style but it just doesn't impress me, looks like your typical anime if that makes sense and the sakuga scenes weird as if they skip some frames. I have only watch 3 episodes though.

deg said:


dude lol im just stating a fact that JJK is still top priority of MAPPA because they are more higher in the production committee of it thats it i do not mean anything more than that just stating a fact lol

heck they are just slightly ahead than in the production committee of Attack on Titan so the final season will get priority for them too since the profit will be crazy if they delivered good

also in terms of first episode JJK has better animation or movements than Attack on Titan final season for sure

yes the production has always been hell but now its more hellish that even WIT studio quit and now MAPPA uses 3DCG for all main titans just to speed up the production (but personally im fine with 3DCG) and the 2D animation is just average on the first episode compared to other high profile shows and for a 1 cour show too


That is not facts! First of all there is a high chance that snk budget is far bigger than jjk, you said it yourself cgi cost more money and we are hearing all titans are cgi, so not because jjk is third in another production committee does not mean its budget or that it is being priotiaze more than snk.

Not to mention snk required way more resource and time than jjk, here is how you see it jjk is priotize more simple because it is 3rd in the production committee, this is a flase way of looking at it not knowing if the production committee for snk is far bigger/ putting in way more money than the production committee for jjk, meaning Mappa could be putting in more money in snk than jjk, jjk could be third in their committee but the money mappa is putting in is still lower than what they are putting in for snk.

FYI Cao himself said that its a completely different team working on snk, your statement would make more sense if it was the same team working on it.


sure ok i can understand your points there but still saying SNK is better than JJK in first episode alone is so wrong though especially on the movements or animation factor

still the fact is 3rd rank is higher than 4th rank
Dec 9, 2020 2:57 PM

Offline
Dec 2018
777
Nobody mentioned it before because most of people here are manga readers but I'm angry on MAPPA because of the trailer that was filled with spoilers and as the story progresses, you can guess many things, making a trailer of the first two episodes mostly like WIT was a best idea I can imagine.
Dec 9, 2020 2:59 PM
Offline
Oct 2020
526
MironBiron said:
z7ProSpyce said:
I don't know why @MironBiron was so upset and disapointed, because I was thinking that is because of the concept that he worrying for the use of CGI Titans, but the other things that he seems upset, I really don't see any problems.


I think he judge this so much quickly and influenced by the topics!?

My favorite series of all time got sacrificed in favor of a billion dollar company's greed and desperation. That's why I'm disappointed.


Man, seriously, I not understand, You say like this is a disaster, your worrying is the concept in the first time when I talk with you, right!?

But I not understand the other things, I don't see any problems, you talk about so much and the storyboard not have a inspiration

... like ... what???

Jun Shishido make a great and solid storyboard for this episode.

I follow your works a long time ago and I notice that this was not your fully potencial but was a great work, I see various things that you said, and everything that you said can be easy refutable, and now I strange that because your arguments before all this discussions have been so strong. So I not understand, because now for me you are being very vague, is like you are lost in your thoughs because this cause a impact in you.

I don't understand why people keep saying that the schedule was bad, they have 1 year to make SnK, this is a decent time, Wit only had 6 months, the one problem is that MAPPA not have a reference of pre production that Wit had, because they are making everything from the zero, in scratch.
z7ProSpyceDec 9, 2020 3:10 PM
Dec 9, 2020 3:09 PM
Offline
Nov 2020
270
I wondered if the first 3 seasons are not handled by Wit , will this series still be a classic or huge as it is with its story alone....

It is undeniable WIT has done a great job adapting the first 3 seasons and leading it to its crowned position among other anime & no offence to isayama, his art style in early days doesn't in the slightest impress me in any ways, i only managed to pick up manga after end of season 3, so i gotta say VISUALS does play a big role despite people been claiming the story content is the primary factor to keep the readers attached....but manga and anime are ultimately 2 different visual mediums as manga relied hugely on the authors art style and story board skills but anime itself can deliver more than that through music, voice acting, story board & animation etc.., so honestly to a regular fans like me, ANY studio that had adapted the early seasons of AOT anime gonna triumph the manga regardless ...and the thing with mappa right now is we been assessing it comparatively with WIT works...which is understandable because that's what the fans expected it to be...

but my point is the whole scenario would probably reversed if it wasn't WIT doing the first 3 seasons but some other mediocre studio and with mappa handling this final season, fans will probably praise them for the level of works they had done now, so what I am trying to say here is how should we asses this anime objectively?
i do think this first ep has flaws too but i am comparing that with manga rather to wit past seasons because isayama's work at this point has really come to surpass even the anime itself, i can enjoy the manga as much with only ost playing in the back of it...

Also, in the Mappa staff interviews even Cao himself are stressing things gonna be different this season, so constantly comparing the wit works and mappa's are not wrong but does it really do justice to mappa ???

To me, the manga shall be the reference criteria to judge if this anime adaptation is done well, in that sense mappa are doing a pretty good job so far despite some of the flaws in it...how do you guys think? should we judge the anime with manga or with the past seasons quality?
Tsubaki86Dec 9, 2020 3:15 PM
Dec 9, 2020 3:10 PM

Offline
Jan 2019
778
keragamming said:

Go ahead and show me.


Focus on the details (nose or neck for example), these are clearly different drawings of the same model. All titans in the background are 2D as well, I checked their movement and it's animated with 2-3 looped frames (pretty much the same as hair animations).




I'm no expert in CGI but I've watched the 2nd part of the episode like 7 times or so, and I'm still seeing all regular titans full 2D. (And the more I see the CGI the more I like it tbh, even though I liked it since the very first watch)
Karnox001Dec 9, 2020 3:15 PM
Dec 9, 2020 3:16 PM
Offline
Nov 2020
43
MironBiron said:
z7ProSpyce said:
I don't know why @MironBiron was so upset and disapointed, because I was thinking that is because of the concept that he worrying for the use of CGI Titans, but the other things that he seems upset, I really don't see any problems.


I think he judge this so much quickly and influenced by the topics!?

My favorite series of all time got sacrificed in favor of a billion dollar company's greed and desperation. That's why I'm disappointed.


Everyone here is so overdramatic lol. People are acting like the quality of the adaptation is Berserk 2016 level or something. It's not perfect by any means, but it's still far above watchable. If your love for the show gets sacrificed because of some unimaginative shots and underwhelming backgrounds in an otherwise stellar episode, then that's really a shame. The alternative would have been that we wouldn't have gotten an animated Season 4 in the near future... maybe ever. Also, again, I'd say, Kodansha and Pony Canyon are the companies you should be aiming your weapons at, since it is their decision to rush out a season, despite COVID, that we have MAPPA working in such conditions (it's no coincidence that every other studio turned down this anime). Who knows maybe if the production committee was willing to wait a year or two, we could have gotten a fully 2D-animated season (although considering the content in the later parts of the manga - I doubt that would be possible even then).
DanBukDec 9, 2020 3:19 PM
Dec 9, 2020 3:20 PM
Offline
Aug 2019
45
I_Am_Freeballing said:
MironBiron said:

I switched to the manga out of fear that the anime would become what it is right now and I'm happy because of that.

I don't think Reiner's transformation was close to being one of the best in the entire series. The texture was missing from his face, the jolts of lightning are less detailed than they used to be, and the transformation itself looked less fleshy, less realistic, more cartoony than previous ones. The treatment of Eldians was shown hastily, with no focus or patience, the triumphant music didn't quite reflect the war crimes either. They literally sucked the horror out of that scene using the PV score, not having the patience or focus to pause and reflect during a single shot. I mean it's all decent because of the incredible source material but it isn't even nearly handled with the mature treatment that it deserved for being the amazing and poetic work of literature that it is.

Tthe two-dimensional storyboarding/framing during the battlefield scenes as well as some of the trench scenes didn't quite make the episode as immersive as it should've been either.

The trench setting was amazing (although the character drawings had to be blurred to shit to make the difference in quality between the two less apparent), and so was the inside (although only shown rapidly) of Fort Slava, as well as the airship's interior (still, frames were blurred to shit to make the quality difference between background and character design less apparent).

The actual in-between backgrounds and overviews aren't very good though. You won't be able to find a single background shot in WIT Studio's Attack on Titan that lacks as much detail as the following one:



My least favorite thing about the episode/preview of the next episode is probably the usage of static manga expressions on moving characters. Animated images ask for a different approach to facial expression, using the frozen and extremely characteristic expressions in moving images gives off amateurish, unrealistic vibes. It isn't completely bad by any means but it isn't quite smart either. The staff already spoke about their struggle to animate the character expressions from the manga and probably had to resort to the least time consuming solution.

This just isn't the kind of production that I would watch if I didn't happen to love its source material. It's decent but not unique in any sense, which is sad.
I was merely arguing that if you didn't familiarize yourself with the source material out of worry, you wouldn't be worrying as much now, because I'm assuming the worry comes from the comparison.
For the rest of the stuff I disagree, or should I say I agree with the criticism but don't think it's necessarily bad. For example, the picture you gave, obviously WIT's are more detailed. What I'm saying is that Mappa one fits, even if less detailed. WIT's is inherently and technically better because it is more detailed, but IMO the detail doesn't need to be there for it to look good, which it does and fits the aesthetic of the whole episode.
MironBiron said:


The actual in-between backgrounds and overviews aren't very good though. You won't be able to find a single background shot in WIT Studio's Attack on Titan that lacks as much detail as the following one:



My least favorite thing about the episode/preview of the next episode is probably the usage of static manga expressions on moving characters. Animated images ask for a different approach to facial expression, using the frozen and extremely characteristic expressions in moving images gives off amateurish, unrealistic vibes. It isn't completely bad by any means but it isn't quite smart either. The staff already spoke about their struggle to animate the character expressions from the manga and probably had to resort to the least time consuming solution.

This just isn't the kind of production that I would watch if I didn't happen to love its source material. It's decent but not unique in any sense, which is sad.


Lmao now I remember why I didn‘t get what was happening in these last few minutes of the episode. I can’t see sh*t. This is like an image from a PS2 game where the background isn‘t rendered properly because you‘re still too far away. The blur doesn’t help either. Also the CGI looks only good when there is little to no movement otherwise it‘s just clunky. Why do you think they use so much blur?

If you’re not a manga reader like me without watching the scenes before and after you wouldn’t even know what is happening in this shot. You can‘t even tell the ships in the background. It‘s just like @MironBiron said: You can have the best storyline, music, voice acting, etc. However anime is a visual medium and the animation is a big part of the storytelling and makes a big difference for the whole experience at least for me. Details in art and composition helps me to understand and putting together what I‘m watching. Remember the boulder throw in S3P2 where the camera zooms on Erwin? Compare the impact and effect of that with this regarding visual storytelling and you see what I mean.

This isn‘t about the animation or CGI either it‘s just bad visual composition and effects the whole experience as a viewer for me.
Dec 9, 2020 3:24 PM

Offline
Jan 2009
91622
ThatShiny_Hex one of the users i see here on MAL ask this from the MAPPA affiliated key animator

How much of a downgrade can I expect in comparison to episode 1?

A: Quite a lot~

First episode is the hook for viewers so they focus most of the best staff here and take the most care in this episode (aside from a climax or the final episode)

You will see the anime for what it really is right around the 3 episode mark

https://twitter.com/Vercreek/status/1336758747947913216

yep after the first 3-6 episodes normally the quality drop happens in most anime that is
Dec 9, 2020 3:28 PM
Offline
Nov 2020
43
For the sake of a proper comparison, you should at least take the image from a high-quality source and not a pixelated YouTube video with terrible color correction.

Actual shot:

DanBukDec 9, 2020 3:32 PM
Dec 9, 2020 3:30 PM
Offline
Oct 2020
526
berutoruto said:
I wondered if the first 3 seasons are not handled by Wit , will this series still be a classic or huge as it is with its story alone....

It is undeniable WIT has done a great job adapting the first 3 seasons and leading it to its crowned position among other anime & no offence to isayama, his art style in early days doesn't in the slightest impress me in any ways, i only managed to pick up manga after end of season 3, so i gotta say VISUALS does play a big role despite people been claiming the story content is the primary factor to keep the readers attached....but manga and anime are ultimately 2 different mediums as manga relied hugely on the authors art style and story board skills but anime itself can deliver more than that, so honestly to a regular fans like me, ANY studio that had adapted the early seasons of AOT anime gonna triumph the manga regardless ...and the thing with mappa right now is we been assessing it comparatively with WIT works...which is understandable because that what the fans expected it to be...

but my point is the whole scenario would probably reversed if it wasn't WIT doing the first 3 seasons but some other mediocre studio and with mappa handling this final season, fans will probably praise them for the level of works they had done now, so what I am trying to say here is how should we asses this anime objectively?
i do think this first ep has flaws too but i am comparing that with manga rather to wit past seasons because isayama's work at this point has really come to surpass even the anime itself, i can enjoy the manga as much with only ost playing in the back of it...

Also, in many of the Mappa staff interviews even Cao himself are stressing things gonna be different this season, so constantly comparing the wit works and mappa's are not wrong but doesn't really do justice to mappa either.

To me, the manga shall be the reference criteria to judge if this anime adaptation is done well, in that sense mappa are doing a pretty good job so far despite some of the flaws in it...how do you guys think? should we judge the anime with manga or with the past seasons quality?


Personally (I think) is wrong compare, because is two different studios, you not want that MAPPA become Wit and Wit become MAPPA because they have your unique identity, so I think is more correctly compare the source material if you want,but I personally don't want compare this season with nothing because I don't like compare manga vs anime, so I like the individual vision of the director.
Dec 9, 2020 3:31 PM
Offline
Nov 2020
403
berutoruto said:
I wondered if the first 3 seasons are not handled by Wit , will this series still be a classic or huge as it is with its story alone....

It is undeniable WIT has done a great job adapting the first 3 seasons and leading it to its crowned position among other anime & no offence to isayama, his art style in early days doesn't in the slightest impress me in any ways, i only managed to pick up manga after end of season 3, so i gotta say VISUALS does play a big role despite people been claiming the story content is the primary factor to keep the readers attached....but manga and anime are ultimately 2 different visual mediums as manga relied hugely on the authors art style and story board skills but anime itself can deliver more than that through music, voice acting, story board & animation etc.., so honestly to a regular fans like me, ANY studio that had adapted the early seasons of AOT anime gonna triumph the manga regardless ...and the thing with mappa right now is we been assessing it comparatively with WIT works...which is understandable because that's what the fans expected it to be...

but my point is the whole scenario would probably reversed if it wasn't WIT doing the first 3 seasons but some other mediocre studio and with mappa handling this final season, fans will probably praise them for the level of works they had done now, so what I am trying to say here is how should we asses this anime objectively?
i do think this first ep has flaws too but i am comparing that with manga rather to wit past seasons because isayama's work at this point has really come to surpass even the anime itself, i can enjoy the manga as much with only ost playing in the back of it...

Also, in the Mappa staff interviews even Cao himself are stressing things gonna be different this season, so constantly comparing the wit works and mappa's are not wrong but does it really do justice to mappa ???

To me, the manga shall be the reference criteria to judge if this anime adaptation is done well, in that sense mappa are doing a pretty good job so far despite some of the flaws in it...how do you guys think? should we judge the anime with manga or with the past seasons quality?


Yeah agreed with most of what you said, as a manga reader myself i cared more about the story development in manga at this point and i believe a faithful adaptation to the manga content will easily earn AOT series the best anime title regardless of the studio handling it as long as it's NOT seven deadly sins s3 quality lmaaoo XD

but the thing is, we manga readers can compare the anime adaptation to manga. then how about the anime onlys?

I think this is why there are so much debates now because most anime onlys are used to WIT style in that 3 seasons and those are the only source they can refer to in judging the finals season quality and isayama himself too referring the anime as the final form of his work..so this posed a really tough scenario here such that people split on the opinions of whether to judge this anime from its predecessor or the source material itself ...😕
Dec 9, 2020 3:35 PM
Offline
Nov 2020
329
berutoruto said:
I wondered if the first 3 seasons are not handled by Wit , will this series still be a classic or huge as it is with its story alone....

It is undeniable WIT has done a great job adapting the first 3 seasons and leading it to its crowned position among other anime & no offence to isayama, his art style in early days doesn't in the slightest impress me in any ways, i only managed to pick up manga after end of season 3, so i gotta say VISUALS does play a big role despite people been claiming the story content is the primary factor to keep the readers attached....but manga and anime are ultimately 2 different visual mediums as manga relied hugely on the authors art style and story board skills but anime itself can deliver more than that through music, voice acting, story board & animation etc.., so honestly to a regular fans like me, ANY studio that had adapted the early seasons of AOT anime gonna triumph the manga regardless ...and the thing with mappa right now is we been assessing it comparatively with WIT works...which is understandable because that what the fans expected it to be...

but my point is the whole scenario would probably reversed if it wasn't WIT doing the first 3 seasons but some other mediocre studio and with mappa handling this final season, fans will probably praise them for the level of works they had done now, so what I am trying to say here is how should we asses this anime objectively?
i do think this first ep has flaws too but i am comparing that with manga rather to wit past seasons because isayama's work at this point has really come to surpass even the anime itself, i can enjoy the manga as much with only ost playing in the back of it...

Also, in many of the Mappa staff interviews even Cao himself are stressing things gonna be different this season, so constantly comparing the wit works and mappa's are not wrong but doesn't really do justice to mappa either.

To me, the manga shall be the reference criteria to judge if this anime adaptation is done well, in that sense mappa are doing a pretty good job so far despite some of the flaws in it...how do you guys think? should we judge the anime with manga or with the past seasons quality?


I think just like you. I think that because its different studio, different ste up for the story, we should judge the manga in comparison rather with the previous seasons. The Wit's 3 seasons were amazingly set the mood for the series, but WIT left the project.We should get used to MAPPA stype & move on, but i know some People wont. So i think that even the first ep of the final season was not near perfect it was just "decent" i think MAPPA improve especially in this episode. For example they added more scenes to set how cruel nation like Marley is. Like:

-The soldiers preparing for the attack but they were in fear

-The soldier who climber the corpse to see the awful view of war

-The Armoder Titan scene where he was shot by the armored train (in the manga was just another cannor, Check it if you dont believe it)

-and I especially loved the irony they putted when the armored used tackled armored train as shield because the cannons still Can piece his armor.


-Also another scene the i think they improved out of these 2 chapters (May be some more scenes yet, but i only think of those) is how Reiner AT used the armored train to wreck the People shooting him from the walls with cannos. In the manga he used watchtower or something like this. I THINK that scene was improvement. But still i think i could be fine with this adaptation but it lost it touch the moment when they decided to make all titans in CG. I mean later as the story progress inevitably they will use tons of CG, but for the titan shifters they could make them 2d, but the time has not enough and I am respectful for the passioned Hard work they the staff put to make it at least this good.

One throught from me: It always could have been worse. So at least it's not SDS
S3 level type of shit.

1 episode is not enough to jugde entire season if will be bad, good, decent or masterpiece. It either they nailed some important scenes of they will cracked over the hard overworking & stress they have been put for months/year.
Dec 9, 2020 3:38 PM

Offline
Jan 2009
91622
confirmation from the animator that 3DCG is use to speed up the production

Sorry if this has been asked before or is a dumb question but has MAPPA's choice to use CG for the titans helped out in any way?

When a studio does this kind of things, its either so that they can finish things quicker or there is not enough people who are able to draw these scenes. The titans are very hard you know! Rare are the times this is done for a creative reason ( such as houseki no kuni!)

https://twitter.com/Vercreek/status/1336752524594843648
Dec 9, 2020 3:39 PM
Offline
Dec 2020
1141
deg said:
ThatShiny_Hex one of the users i see here on MAL ask this from the MAPPA affiliated key animator

How much of a downgrade can I expect in comparison to episode 1?

A: Quite a lot~

First episode is the hook for viewers so they focus most of the best staff here and take the most care in this episode (aside from a climax or the final episode)

You will see the anime for what it really is right around the 3 episode mark

https://twitter.com/Vercreek/status/1336758747947913216

yep after the first 3-6 episodes normally the quality drop happens in most anime that is
this cant be true at all. The staff for the second episode was leaked todax and it looks more promising than the first episode. I think we will see the best animation in episode 5-7, 11/12 and 14-17 considering the manga content.
Attack on Titan ended with chapter 123 and 130/131 is the epilogue
Dec 9, 2020 3:39 PM
Offline
Oct 2020
526
DanBuk said:
For the sake of a proper comparison, you should at least take the image from a high-quality source and not a pixelated YouTube video with terrible color correction.

Actual shot:



Yes man I really don't understand this, I think I will quit the site lol ... I can't stay here anymore, really.
Dec 9, 2020 3:42 PM

Offline
Sep 2018
577
MAPPA_Enthusiast said:
One throught from me: It always could have been worse. So at least it's not SDS S3 level type of shit.


You just jinxed it...

Seriously though, I expect an inevitable collapse at some point. If not, it'll be a huge surprise to me. And yes, I think it might even be SDS S3 levels of collapse.
Dec 9, 2020 3:45 PM

Offline
Jan 2009
91622
yaegerist-15 said:
deg said:
ThatShiny_Hex one of the users i see here on MAL ask this from the MAPPA affiliated key animator

How much of a downgrade can I expect in comparison to episode 1?

A: Quite a lot~

First episode is the hook for viewers so they focus most of the best staff here and take the most care in this episode (aside from a climax or the final episode)

You will see the anime for what it really is right around the 3 episode mark

https://twitter.com/Vercreek/status/1336758747947913216

yep after the first 3-6 episodes normally the quality drop happens in most anime that is
this cant be true at all. The staff for the second episode was leaked todax and it looks more promising than the first episode. I think we will see the best animation in episode 5-7, 11/12 and 14-17 considering the manga content.


he is not pointing out episode 2 though he is pointing out around episode 3 and beyond
Dec 9, 2020 3:48 PM
Offline
Nov 2020
270
hinako49 said:
berutoruto said:
I wondered if the first 3 seasons are not handled by Wit , will this series still be a classic or huge as it is with its story alone....

It is undeniable WIT has done a great job adapting the first 3 seasons and leading it to its crowned position among other anime & no offence to isayama, his art style in early days doesn't in the slightest impress me in any ways, i only managed to pick up manga after end of season 3, so i gotta say VISUALS does play a big role despite people been claiming the story content is the primary factor to keep the readers attached....but manga and anime are ultimately 2 different visual mediums as manga relied hugely on the authors art style and story board skills but anime itself can deliver more than that through music, voice acting, story board & animation etc.., so honestly to a regular fans like me, ANY studio that had adapted the early seasons of AOT anime gonna triumph the manga regardless ...and the thing with mappa right now is we been assessing it comparatively with WIT works...which is understandable because that's what the fans expected it to be...

but my point is the whole scenario would probably reversed if it wasn't WIT doing the first 3 seasons but some other mediocre studio and with mappa handling this final season, fans will probably praise them for the level of works they had done now, so what I am trying to say here is how should we asses this anime objectively?
i do think this first ep has flaws too but i am comparing that with manga rather to wit past seasons because isayama's work at this point has really come to surpass even the anime itself, i can enjoy the manga as much with only ost playing in the back of it...

Also, in the Mappa staff interviews even Cao himself are stressing things gonna be different this season, so constantly comparing the wit works and mappa's are not wrong but does it really do justice to mappa ???

To me, the manga shall be the reference criteria to judge if this anime adaptation is done well, in that sense mappa are doing a pretty good job so far despite some of the flaws in it...how do you guys think? should we judge the anime with manga or with the past seasons quality?


Yeah agreed with most of what you said, as a manga reader myself i cared more about the story development in manga at this point and i believe a faithful adaptation to the manga content will easily earn AOT series the best anime title regardless of the studio handling it as long as it's NOT seven deadly sins s3 quality lmaaoo XD

but the thing is, we manga readers can compare the anime adaptation to manga. then how about the anime onlys?

I think this is why there are so much debates now because most anime onlys are used to WIT style in that 3 seasons and those are the only source they can refer to in judging the finals season quality and isayama himself too referring the anime as the final form of his work..so this posed a really tough scenario here such that people split on the opinions of whether to judge this anime from its predecessor or the source material itself ...😕


lolllll i totally forgot about the anime onlys.....yeah it's true for anime-onlys they could only refer to the past seasons quality to judge , because to them it is unfair to get a downgrade treatment after you had such great animation feast in early seasons, so probably the studio change is minor and adaptable to regular fans who are more attached to story , but for some other fans that cared more than that would be deeply disappointed for what they are getting here from Mappa :/
Tsubaki86Dec 9, 2020 3:52 PM
This topic has been locked and is no longer available for discussion.
Pages (136) « First ... « 132 133 [134] 135 136 »

More topics from this board

» Falco and Gabi…

Arddaa52 - Jul 25, 2021

20 by Adrena »»
Yesterday, 6:50 AM

Poll: » Shingeki no Kyojin: The Final Season Episode 16 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )

Koito91 - Mar 28, 2021

691 by Apreggi »»
Mar 23, 11:07 PM

Poll: » Shingeki no Kyojin: The Final Season Episode 15 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )

anime-prime - Mar 21, 2021

464 by Apreggi »»
Mar 23, 10:39 PM

Poll: » Shingeki no Kyojin: The Final Season Episode 14 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )

anime-prime - Mar 14, 2021

507 by Apreggi »»
Mar 23, 10:09 PM

Poll: » Shingeki no Kyojin: The Final Season Episode 13 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )

anime-prime - Mar 7, 2021

511 by Apreggi »»
Mar 23, 9:43 PM

Preview MangaManga Store

It’s time to ditch the text file.
Keep track of your anime easily by creating your own list.
Sign Up Login