| https://myanimelist.net/anime/37517/Happy_Sugar_Life - nihilistic comedy story, no happy end https://myanimelist.net/anime/2238/Fuyu_no_Semi - yaoi tag on a history tragedy https://myanimelist.net/anime/634/Koi_Kaze - age gap incest, otherwise one of the best romances in anime https://myanimelist.net/anime/2341/Choujin_Densetsu_Urotsukidouji - hentai tag, rape and other sexualized violence https://myanimelist.net/anime/790/Ergo_Proxy - requires side reading and at least one rewatch, otherwise no chance to understand the plot. You simply need to know what you are doing beforehand. And so on, I tend to like polarizing anime and am not afraid to rate them well. Same way around for disliking some popular anime I could never recommend. |
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| Probably Gintama, it starts pretty slow and get's better after, so many people don't have any motivation to watch it. Second is Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinju. Most people think that it is just about rakugo and nothing else. It's actually one of the greatest drama anime you can find. |
| A lot of my favorite anime came out before the 2000s but it seems that a lot of people especially newer watchers show irrational disdain for cel animation which makes them harder to recommend. |
| MEA·MENTVLA·INGENS·EST |
| @NamikazeHime Gintama is the easiest anime to recommend, anyone who asks funny anime? will get answered with Gintama as #1 anywhere. @Sinankooesa I think what pretty hard to recommend would be mediocre/less well known anime, as they always get shadowed by the well known best top tier show. For example if someone asks Comedy Anime recommendation, the answer would be most likely: Gintama, Saiki Kusuo, Nichijou, Danshi Koukousei, One Punch Man, and Konosuba Its very rare to see the answer: Mahoujin Guru Guru, Chio chan no Tsuugakuro, Binbougami ga, Punch Line, Seizei Ganbare Mahou Shoujo Kurumi Even tho they are all actually very funny too, just little less well known. |
lswarmrulerMar 22, 2020 7:49 AM
 Try reading Spy x Family Manga ^_^ U will love it, i promise... |
| Rov, Maria-Sama, Onee-sama, Gokinjo Monogatari, More or less every Nippon show, Saiunkoku Monogatari, Glass no Kamen, Kaleido Star etc. Shows 99,9% of this community is ignoring and will never watch. |
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| Legend of the Galactic Heroes. Too old, too long and space opera. Almost no one of my friends would seriously consider watching it. Also pretty much any slice of life series/ series with many slice of life elements , normies think of them as "gay" lol. |
One Piece episode 914 & 915 & 1027 were a mistake and 957 brought the salvation - FMmatron |
| Monogatari for multiple reasons despite it being great |
What a beautiful Duwang |
NamikazeHime said: Probably Gintama, it starts pretty slow and get's better after, so many people don't have any motivation to watch it. Second is Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinju. Most people think that it is just about rakugo and nothing else. It's actually one of the greatest drama anime you can find. I really relate to both anime that you mentioned! I found Gintama hard to recommend too for that reason. If I said you need tens of episodes to finally get into it, they won't want to watch it. But if I don't let them know in advance, it's likely for them to give up too early before it gets good :( For Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinju, I was the one being recommended to and my friend had to sit me down and watch together haha because before that I thought it sounded boring and kept refusing to try. My perceptions turned out to be so wrong and I'm glad my friend forced me to watch it. |
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lswarmruler said: @NamikazeHime Gintama is the easiest anime to recommend, anyone who asks funny anime? will get answered with Gintama as #1 anywhere. I think I can't agree with you on that. @tinyfin explained the reason pretty great here: tinyfin said: NamikazeHime said: Probably Gintama, it starts pretty slow and get's better after, so many people don't have any motivation to watch it. Second is Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinju. Most people think that it is just about rakugo and nothing else. It's actually one of the greatest drama anime you can find. I really relate to both anime that you mentioned! I found Gintama hard to recommend too for that reason. If I said you need tens of episodes to finally get into it, they won't want to watch it. But if I don't let them know in advance, it's likely for them to give up too early before it gets good :( For Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinju, I was the one being recommended to and my friend had to sit me down and watch together haha because before that I thought it sounded boring and kept refusing to try. My perceptions turned out to be so wrong and I'm glad my friend forced me to watch it. |
FMmatron said: Legend of the Galactic Heroes. Too old, too long and space opera. Almost no one of my friends would seriously consider watching it. Also pretty much any slice of life series/ series with many slice of life elements , normies think of them as "gay" lol. Yeah OP is easier to answer if we're talking about anime recommendation to normies. I can't share anything I truly like with my RL family and friends because they'd immediately get the wrong idea and call the FBI Something like Made in Abyss particularly would be a bad idea to recommend to a normie |
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| Isekai wa Smartphone. It's the ultimate escapism for people with no ambition in life. It's actually very different from most other escapism series that look similar on the surface because where the other series cave in and give you the standard power fantasy with strong villains and what not Isekai wa Smarphone doubles down leading to an odd slice of life iyashikei adventure isekai thingy with zero stakes. I can understand why most people hate it but it clearly serves a purpose which I haven't seen done better elsewhere. |
| All the good stuff cause people are tasteless plebs basically :> |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| most really muh deep psychological genre shows like Ergo Proxy, Lain etc. cause most people (me included) aren't really willing to go out of their way to look up tons of explanations of stuff just to get even a basic understanding of the show itself |
 'On-Hold' is another way for a completionist to say 'Dropped' |
| Something with a 50% dropped:completed ratio despite them having a relatively good score. https://myanimelist.net/anime/9996/Hyouge_Mono https://myanimelist.net/anime/34102/Sakurada_Reset https://myanimelist.net/anime/30895/HaruChika__Haruta_to_Chika_wa_Seishun_suru And then there is fairy gone with more dropped than completed despite it being actually good. https://myanimelist.net/anime/39063/Fairy_Gone |
| Can't think of anything. Most of the stuff in this medium is accessible. Unless the person in question is close minded, I wouldn't find anything in particular hard to recommend. |
| I can't easily recommend anything that I've given a seven or higher, except for Fullmetal Alchemist, Escaflowne, Azumanga Daioh, The Girl Who Leapt Through Time, and maybe Perfect Blue and Paprika if the general consensus on Neon Genesis Evangelion is more positive than I think it is these days. Other than that, specific shows for specific tastes only. |
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| I want to recommend school days to my friends but they know that it is considered one of the worst animes to exist. |
Profile Anime List Manga List AWC 100th Completed Anime: Ore no Imouto ga Konnani Kawaii Wake ga Nai. Specials |
| Koi Kaze - Too many people hold worldviews and ideologies which would prevent them either from watching the show without bringing preconceived notions into and casting judgment on it from astride a moralizing high horse. And even for many of those who are not like this explicitly and overtly, that mentality and those sentiments are residual and latent enough to prevent them from being able to enjoy it to its full capacity. Due to the obvious - Incest and age gap. Serial Experiments Lain - Too slow, dry, abstract in its audiovisual presentation, and revolving around topics like transhumanism that people going into it either have to some established interest in, foreknowledge of, or both, to even be willing to give it a real chance Haibane Renmei - Too slow and Slice of Lifey. The people who normally like SoLs will be put off because it isn't a contemporary work life or recreational type anime. And won't like the direction into psychological drama it goes into particularly in the latter half of the series. Those who dislike SoLs in the first place will see the first six or so episodes as boring and a barrier for entry. Most from both camps will be frustrated that for a show billed as a Mystery it doesn't actually solve or answer most mysteries and instead wades in allegory and the process of inquiry. And for a Fantasy it's more concerned with the mysteries of life which are in fact fantastical when you look at them that way then more recognizable, established mythology. Ergo Proxy - Too slow, not as narratively confusing or abstract as Lain but will be frustrating and appear deceiving to many people since most reviews I've read excoriate the second half of the series since what looks like a more traditional cyberpunk Sci-Fi crime thriller at first transitions to a string of episodes that seem disconnected and disjointed at first, refuses to be contained within one genre and in fact the show as a whole experiments with probably too many genres for most to consider coherent and abandons its plot on the surface in exchange for ruminating on philosophical schools of thought and theories and an atmosphere many would consider too bleak and depressing to be rewarding or enjoyable. Legend of the Galactic Heroes - Space operas especially nowadays are somewhat niche by default. Also long, older 80s and early 90s animation which puts a lot of folks off today, and is better if you have an almost fanboy or otaku-level interest in history, politics/geopolitics, philosophy, etc., which again most people don't. Elfen Lied - This one is despised by both large and vocal camps of people - Camp A which would deplore any depiction of graphic violence and murder of innocents and children, child rape, sexual abuse or molestation, etc., and Camp B who watched the show when they were first young teenagers precisely to see those very things to be cool and rebellious and now as older teens/young adults/etc. may not see any value in the show beyond that. I'm on record as stating numerous times I think the widespread criticism of this show is completely unfounded and it doesn't just have violence for violence's sake and actually does have a lot of emotional richness and depth, truisms in observations about life and human nature, and intelligent and pretty original thoughts and writing, but it can't be denied it has a nihilistic edge and flair that most will see as overly gratuitous, cynical and jaded for its own sake, and inflammatory and ethically offensive for that reason. I feel like this has a very specific audience of those who will watch it for the exploitation factor - exploding limbs and guts, breasts and sexually suggestive poses by hot mutant girls (mostly young teens but even some adults who just love that stuff) and those who don't mind that stuff but aren't watching it for that, but thoroughly just enjoy horror, thriller, crime, and/or action stories which don't sugarcoat and put the ugliness and multifaceted ways humans can be brutal and ruthless to one another on full display. That's bound to limit its appeal as a lot of folks don't like to acknowledge this side of humanity or if they do, consider it as "entertainment". Happy Sugar Life - Pretty much the same as Koi Kaze without the incest factor but the stigma with lolis may be almost as great or greater for many. A lot of people, because of their politics, religion, or other forms of moral/ethical belief systems have views which preclude them from watching anything depicting the acts and themes it depicts without going in negatively from the beginning. In this case, as a transgressive romance and horror, it's both the violence and sex-related content. Age gap, kidnapping, pedophilia, rape, domestic abuse, masochism, and just a lot of pathos people consider degenerate, anti-social, destructive, and provocative, like adult exhibition of sexual behavior toward children in the form of soliciting, blackmail, and grooming. Aku no Hana - Many people judge from the first by art style and the rotoscoping is near-universally reviled. Traditional anime fans will be put off because it's not more standard anime style and doesn't match the manga. Technical purists will criticize the quality of the rotoscoping itself. Even apart from that, it's just too slow and wading in teen neuroses and somehwhat atypical deviant concerns. Kodomo no Jikan - Age gap and lolis. This will always be seen as child pornography or close to it and never receive widespread acceptance by the contingent of many who consider depiction of any romantic relationship, even one which doesn't cross the boundary into explicitly sexual or become abusive, between an adult and a young child as abhorrent, disgusting, troubling, and upsetting. Hyouge Mono - On the longer side, but that's a fairly minor issue. It's moreso that it's super dense and packed with dates, place names of historic/cultural sites and battlefield sites, and names of historical figures that will bore or confuse most without any interest in specifically Japanese medieval history, or general military history or art history. The show will probably be very dry and tedious to those who don't have anything more than a passing or superficial interest, if any at all, with those things, since it's a slow burn period piece. |
WatchTillTandavaMar 22, 2020 11:35 AM
| Everything feels difficult to recommend to me. The first half of the issue is that I have to have a reason for recommending it to them. I am not fucking stupid and I don't go tossing out recs to people who aren't my friends. Do I think they'll like it? Are they looking for something new, or something similar to something else they've watched, i.e. is offering them a rec in the circumstances, y'know, not retarded? It's not hard when the opportunity pops up, but it's not on me to actually have that opportunity pop up. It's on other people. So I have little control over when to make the rec, because I don't fucking plan recs for all of my friends and that's the only time it isn't going tobe kind of sudden. The second half is that it feels like an uphill climb in a lot of cases. I feel like people tend to like rec'd anime less than anime they themselves discovered and can identify with on their own merit. So you're sitting here, tailoring a rec around a specific individual, and it has to live up to those expectations when it's coming from you and not them. It feels like a rec'd anime is just going to inherently be less special on average. And on a personal level? A lot of people I know really view me as disagreeable. Which isn't unfair, but it does make it even harder to shoot off a rec to someone whenever it's easy for them to become convinced that they and I agree on very few things. Basically, I didn't spec into the rec build. I am not the character to pick if you want to play a recommendation-oriented playstyle. And that's fine because I think it's the most fucking retarded build to spec into in the first place. WatchTillTandava said: Koi Kaze - Too many people hold worldviews and ideologies which would prevent them either from watching the show without bringing preconceived notions into and casting judgment on it from astride a moralizing high horse. I mean, Koi Kaze fucking agrees with them, so that probably isn't going to be the issue. It doesn't hide it and it certainly isn't a balanced take on the topic of an incestuous relationship. What people often interpret as realism in that series is the same way they interpret partisan news outlets being "the only ones telling it how it really is." The only issue they'd actually have is having to watch an incestuous relationship in the first place. Which is an acceptable way to feel considering it's entertainment, but it isn't related to Koi Kaze's complete lack of nuance on the topic at all. |
ManabanMar 22, 2020 11:32 AM
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| Ping Pong the Animation getting people into this masterpiece is so damn hard just because its unique animation. and Kill La Kill hard to explain how the excessive fanservice is the second thing to the ultimate plot and epic animation it had |
trust me, I'm a moon expert |
wasabikelabu said: and Kill La Kill hard to explain how the excessive fanservice is the second thing to the ultimate plot and epic animation it had KLK is meme-tier fanservice when it comes to how accessible it makes it. I feel like it's made so accessible that it retroactively feels shallow and unexciting compared to a lot of other ecchi because of how little it actually has going for it in not pushing itself very far in that regard. Also, the "camera"-work is shoddy at best, and the best parts about its expressions of sexuality come from fucking dialogue instead of using it visually, which feels kind of wasteful for a show trying to be an ecchi. If *that's* the fanservicey show you're having trouble recommending to people, I feel like you should aim for a different demo than your Sunday School friends. |
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Manaban said: wasabikelabu said: and Kill La Kill hard to explain how the excessive fanservice is the second thing to the ultimate plot and epic animation it had KLK is meme-tier fanservice when it comes to how accessible it makes it. I feel like it's made so accessible that it retroactively feels shallow and unexciting compared to a lot of other ecchi because of how little it actually has going for it in not pushing itself very far in that regard. Also, the "camera"-work is shoddy at best, and the best parts about its expressions of sexuality come from fucking dialogue instead of using it visually, which feels kind of wasteful for a show trying to be an ecchi. If *that's* the fanservicey show you're having trouble recommending to people, I feel like you should aim for a different demo than your Sunday School friends. well most of my friends are non-anime watcher, they watch shows like naruto, one piece, mainstream etc. Having them to watch this KLK that straight up shove ass, boobs, right in your face is pretty hard to call. they just think klk was quite silly and dropped it like few episodes in. i don't have many weeb friends irl lmao. sad kek |
trust me, I'm a moon expert |
wasabikelabu said: well most of my friends are non-anime watcher, they watch shows like naruto, one piece, mainstream etc. Having them to watch this KLK that straight up shove ass, boobs, right in your face is pretty hard to call. they just think klk was quite silly and dropped it like few episodes in. i don't have many weeb friends irl lmao. sad kek Yeah, of course it's too much for them. It's why I'm saying to not recommend it to people you met at Sunday School. Rod and Todd Flanders are the types of kids to squeal at the outline of a breast that's being poorly shown in the frame or any unfocused display of skin, after all. The other case where it'd make sense would be Amish people, but obviously they're not watching anime. |
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Manaban said: I mean, Koi Kaze fucking agrees with them, so that probably isn't going to be the issue. It doesn't hide it and it certainly isn't a balanced take on the topic of an incestuous relationship. What people often interpret as realism in that series is the same way they interpret partisan news outlets being "the only ones telling it how it really is." I disagree, but what are you alleging that it doesn't hide? Manaban said: The only issue they'd actually have is having to watch an incestuous relationship in the first place. Which is an acceptable way to feel considering it's entertainment, but it isn't related to Koi Kaze's complete lack of nuance on the topic at all. Whether it's an "acceptable" way to feel or not isn't really the point though - This is about what shows would be difficult to recommend - It's because of many folks' established beliefs and opinions in this case. Whether or not one agrees with them or what form that disagreement takes is really a whole other topic. You say "considering it's entertainment" but that opens up a whole other arena about whether everyone agrees (they don't) about what constitutes entertainment or whether all art should strive to be synonymous with entertainment in the first place. Entertainment means different things to different people and some aren't looking for entertainment in all the art and media they consume anyway. |
WatchTillTandava said: I disagree, but what are you alleging that it doesn't hide? That it's fundamentally an anti-incest show and exclusively explores the concept from a perspective that's decisively against it. It's why I say it isn't nuanced. Saying Koi Kaze is nuanced is like saying a news outlet that exclusively reports a right-wing stance on political topics is nuanced. Which is why I made that comparison in the first place. It's not wrong for existing, but it's not the explorative take on incest that people hype it up as being. The entire notion of it being that is ludicrous. It has a stance, it expresses that stance, it doesn't bother with anything else. It doesn't explore, it tells. WatchTillTandava said: Whether it's an "acceptable" way to feel or not isn't really the point though That's right, and it's not my point. That's just tacked on to indicate that I don't think it's wrong to feel that way, considering how overtly hostile I can be about people's prudishness. You're the one who's writing the bulk of your response on something I just said to make it clear I wasn't trying to shame people for being put off by seeing incestuous relationships, whenever the bulk of my post was focused on a different point entirely - that being that Koi Kaze is a series that is going to agree with the people you're worried that it's going to put off. Because it very, very clearly does. We are literally talking about a series where the main narrative is an incestuous relationship between two characters that are both mentally unwell to some extent, with overtones of abusive behavior and exploiting naivety in an age-gap relationship. Their issue would just be having to see an incestuous relationship play out to communicate that point. |
ManabanMar 22, 2020 12:06 PM
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Manaban said: That it's fundamentally an anti-incest show and exclusively explores the concept from a perspective that's decisively against it. It's why I say it isn't nuanced. It's like saying a news outlet that exclusively reports a right-wing stance on political topics is nuanced. I definitely do not see it as an "anti-incest" show at all even remotely or believe that can be substantiated by anything depicted within it. The relationship in the show is neither glorified nor condemned - it does depict societal condemnation and implied or overt rejection of it in several instances, but nothing apart from that. I remember in the past you commented regarding the show that because you disliked or saw the relationship featured between the protagonists as not a positive one that this was the show's stance and therefore it's anti-incest, but I believe you're projecting your ideas about the characters' actions and motivations and what is or is not a good or worthwhile relationship on to the show writers/creators. I don't see it that way at all and unless the mangaka or show creators ever came out and explicitly said that to be the case, this will remain an opinion on your part and far from a fact universally agreed upon or established by the show itself. Manaban said: You're the one who's writing the bulk of your response on something I just said to make it clear I wasn't trying to shame people for being put off by seeing incestuous relationships, whenever the bulk of my post was focused on a different point entirely - that being that Koi Kaze is a series that is going to agree with the people you're trying to recommend it to. Because it is. Their issue would just be having to see it play out. I disagree with your interpretation of the show fundamentally and do not believe it in any way, shape, or form agrees with that position. I understand why you believe what you're saying if you hold the views you do about the show, but for anyone who sees the series quite differently and with a completely different interpretation of what's on screen, it's entirely off the mark. If you believe the show condemns the relationship it features, then sure it would be a great recommendation for those who want to see such a thing condemned. If you don't, which I do not (and don't believe such can be justified or substantiated in anything shown), then it isn't. |
| All of the anime that I like they have a tendency to trigger normies. |
  Ecchi till I die all these loli's call me senpai (βΏ!βΏ) Τ (ββΏβΤ ) |
| Cross Ange - very emotional and anger-inciting in a very effective way. But also known for shocking scenes. Yosuga no Sora - infamous for scenes depicting a certain sort of sexuality at the end of the series. Ironically, the sex scenes are not actually the focus, but rather the characters' various relationships and their evolution. Umi Monogatari - the magical girl elements are mainly there to present a premise to be subverted, and to be discussed through interpersonal relationships and explored through plot revelations. This may be boring to some. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
| Texhnolyze. I try to recommend this anime when I can but it is hard since it is just so unpleasant. |
  YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE |
Lalazee said: This is highly dependent on your peer group, there are not only a few people actively searching for this kind. Which includes myself and most people I friend. @WatchTillTandava has posted a fine list, and I found that not only I've seen almost all of them, but also that I rated them pretty high.Slow paced, philosophical or psychological animes (...) some people would find them uninteresting. |
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| I dont even bother with this shit,..... that one time I did, it was like that "BUT WHEN I DO" meme told a giurl to watch cirtus, dont think bitch finished it, but stopped talking to me...... I randomly tell ppl to watch candy boy also |
| 80s shows because people, for some reason think they're old and they don't wanna bother watching it, but weirdly enough they would read literature from the 1890s |
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WatchTillTandava said: I definitely do not see it as an "anti-incest" show at all even remotely or believe that can be substantiated by anything depicted within it. Ok, but what about, Iunno, the entirity of the fucking narrative? We are literally talking about a series where the main narrative is an incestuous relationship between two characters that are both mentally unwell to some extent, with overtones of abusive behavior and exploiting naivety in an age-gap relationship. We could add strong social disapproval/ostracization from friends and family alike to that, I guess, but it's less relevant to the fact that it's literally premising its incestuous relationship on a foundation that's saying that the relationship itself is being birthed from two mentally unhealthy individuals engaging in behaviors that are very unhealthy. Incest is a side-arm to the fact that the two leads aren't mentally stable individuals in the first place, especially Koushirou. WatchTillTandava said: The relationship in the show is neither glorified nor condemned - it does depict societal condemnation and implied or overt rejection of it in several instances, but nothing apart from that. I repeat. Two of the primary components of their relationship are exploiting naivety in an age gap relationship and generally abusive behavior being directed at Nanoka. Is it damning the characters to hell or something because god wills it? No, but they're decisively portrayed as unhealthy individuals who are building a relationship that's taboo as a result of their mental shortcomings. It's not hard to grasp where it's coming from. WatchTillTandava said: I remember in the past you commented regarding the show that because you disliked or saw the relationship featured between the protagonists as not a positive one that this was the show's stance and therefore it's anti-incest, but I believe you're projecting your ideas about the character's actions and motivations and what is or is not a good or worthwhile relationship on to the show writers/creators. Lmao, what bullshit. Empty accusations of projecting don't do anything to strengthen your point, and if anything it just tries to accuse the other party of arguing in bad faith. In this case, without any proper basis other than saying that you simply don't see it that way. It doesn't need to be positive to be an acceptable/nuanced portrayal. I've never said anything to indicate that I think as much, here or elsewhere, because I don't think that and I've been complaining about this series like this since before you were a regular. Repeating myself: I say that it isn't nuanced or explorative precisely because it's an extremely negative portrayal that has people convinced it's the most realistic portrayal of incest you can find. I find that all very draconian and rooted in fearmongering moral standards with ulterior motives that we should be attempting to detach ourselves from, if anything. It doesn't encourage you to think about the topic it broaches. It doesn't attempt to understand or discuss the topic from perspectives other than the pre-determined one that it's hinging its narrative on, which is that it's a very unhealthy relationship. It tells you how the topic it broaches is. So it's not nuanced and it's not explorative. WatchTillTandava said: I don't see it that way at all and unless the mangaka or show creators ever came out and explicitly said that to be the case, this will remain an opinion on your part and far from a fact universally agreed upon or established by the show itself. I'm not an 19th century critic, sweetie. I do really love DotA. But DotA isn't needed to see where it's coming from here. WatchTillTandava said: I disagree with your interpretation of the show fundamentally and do not believe it in any way, shape, or form agrees with that position. You already said this. WatchTillTandava said: I understand why you believe what you're saying if you hold the views you do about the show, but for anyone who sees the series quite differently and with a completely different interpretation of what's on screen, it's entirely off the mark. Well, no shit. If somebody sees the series differently, they see it differently. But the thing is that I'm not having to reach deep into the show's narrative to illustrate this conclusion. I'm just stating the premise of their relationship and two of the most consistent elements of their relationship that are very overtly displayed at multiple points in the series. It's the fucking narrative of the relationship. It's like saying Naruto is a series about Ninjas where they believe in the power of friendship and fight evildoers to protect their village, and the protag wants to have the biggest dick and rule the village some day. WatchTillTandava said: If you believe the show condemns the relationship it features, then sure it would be a great recommendation for those who want to see such a thing condemned. If you don't, which I do not (and don't believe such can be justified or substantiated in anything shown), then it isn't. I don't think most people who aren't looking to harp on it as a realistic take from the outset are going to see it that way. Again, you don't have to do some deep analysis to see these things. It's probably why I condemn the idea of it being explorative of incest. It isn't doing that. It's telling a tale of an unhealthy relationship from mentally unwell people, and it's tying that to the incest wagon. |
ManabanMar 22, 2020 12:27 PM
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Manaban said: And why you keep flogging the dead horse your opinion is then?WatchTillTandava said: You already said this.I disagree with your interpretation of the show fundamentally and do not believe it in any way, shape, or form agrees with that position. Manaban said: And your point is? Messiah complex much, or why else you are trying to tell adults what to like? Now that would be a truly unhealthy attitude, wouldn't it.It's probably why I condemn the idea of it being explorative of incest. It isn't doing that. It's telling a tale of an unhealthy relationship from mentally unwell people, and it's tying that to the incest wagon. |
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| I find it very hard to recommend one of my favourites - Hyouge Mono -because how specific it's appeal is to things I already like outside of anime (the history of Japanese aesthetics). It's a shame because there's more to the show than that, but if you don't care for the art history stuff then there's a chance you will not enjoy it. There must be a few anime like and their niche appeal is a double edged sword. As in unless you're totally invested in that one subject then people might think it's not for you, but if you're totally into that one subject then people will recommend it to you all the time for that shallow reason. If you like mahjong then watch Akagi, if you're interested in motorbikes watch Bakuon!!, if weight ligting is your thing then watch Dumbbell Nan Kilo Moteru? etc. The quality of this stuff can sometimes be secondary for the person recommending them. |
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inim said: And why you keep flogging the dead horse your opinion is then? Because I'm being presented with the non-descript variations of relativism and pointless assertions of disagreement that don't add anything to that point. Unlike just being straight-up repetitive, I'm kind of asserting an ultimatum - fucking explain to me why I'm wrong instead of beating around the bush with it, or fuck off in asserting that I'm wrong. I'm trying to force this discussion into being productive instead of what it currently is. Or, if nothing else, not letting them try to assert themselves as correct over me in a way that seems counter-productive to actually discussing a topic like this. Because simply appealing to relativism and saying that I'm wrong doesn't justify continued accusations of being incorrect - if they want to stay here and say I'm incorrect, they should actually attempt to explain why they think that instead of "other people might see it differently" and "I don't agree" being repeated ad nauseam. If they're not interested in actually talking out the disagreement and want to die on that hill that they've been arguing on so far, then they should stop responding, given they have every right to. inim said: And your point is? Messiah complex much, or why else you are trying to tell adults what to like? Now that would be a truly unhealthy attitude, wouldn't it. Because I have every reason to believe that describing it as explorative or nuanced is a misrepresentation of the contents of the series tself. And I've stated why and haven't gotten a proper retort to that, either. Since when is accusing people of misrepresenting something telling them what they can and can't like? What the fuck does that even have to do with the conversation we're having here? How is that even *tangentially* related? |
ManabanMar 22, 2020 12:34 PM
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Manaban said: We could add strong social disapproval/ostracization from friends and family alike to that Which is a neutral observation of the factual widespread societal condemnation/ostracization of it. Not an affirmation that those attitudes are correct in any way. It neither agrees with nor dismisses prevalence of such attitudes, but just depicts that that is what they are, because it's of course factually the case. Manaban said: it's literally premising its incestuous relationship on a foundation that's saying that the relationship itself is being birthed from two mentally unhealthy individuals engaging in behaviors that are very unhealthy. Incest is a side-arm to the fact that the two leads aren't mentally stable individuals in the first place, especially Koushirou. I repeat. Two of the primary components of their relationship are exploiting naivety in an age gap relationship and generally abusive behavior being directed at Nanoka. The fact that it portrays two people who aren't mentally the norm doesn't serve as a condemnation of either those characters as individuals or of the relationship they build. To me it seems rather realistic that even those, an extreme minority, who find themselves in such a relationship in real life may be non-neurotypical individuals in many ways. I don't see that as in any way a condemnation of them or the relationship. Also, "behaviors that are very unhealthy" is your stance and your opinion - Not the creators/'show's. As for abuse, what abuse? Immaturity and an immature display of or failure to cope with one's own feelings and verbal arguing? I would say this again would be more realistic and factual, and even widespread outside of specifically incestuous relationships. Any "abuse" shown is extremely mild and I don't believe either the show is holding that up as reason to reject or condemn the relationship of the protagonists featured or believes its audience should or will. |
WatchTillTandavaMar 22, 2020 12:34 PM
| For me, I'd say Full Metal Panic, Fafner, and Symphogear, since the first seasons of all three are ok at best, but their sequel material all blows the original completely out of the water, and a lot of people just don't want to watch something that's meh to start. Egao no Daika, which is a show that admittedly has a lot of issues with QUALITY and the Yuki episodes being dudu, but I just enjoyed the Stella episodes so much that it made up the show for me, although it has a bad rep even among mecha fans so I hesitate to recommend it to people. Same with Aquarion Logos, although that had much better production values and was more consistent than EnD |
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Manaban said: That is not how the adult world works. Nobody owes you any explaination, and repeating your opinion in ever more verbose and shrill forms is flat out the behaviour of a child with a tantrum. It was made abundantly clear that some people disagree with every single word you say, in no unclear way. Learn to accept other opinions, they are as good as your own. All of them. inim said: I'm kind of asserting an ultimatum - fucking explain to me why I'm wrongAnd why you keep flogging the dead horse your opinion is then? inim said: And your point is? Messiah complex much, or why else you are trying to tell adults what to like? Now that would be a truly unhealthy attitude, wouldn't it. Manaban said: So you are trying to tell me you understand a work of art, and everybody else is wrong. Interesting. Grow up and call back when you did.Because I have every reason to believe that describing it as explorative or nuanced is a misrepresentation of the contents of the series tself. |
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WatchTillTandava said: Which is a neutral observation of the factual widespread societal condemnation/ostracization of it. Not an affirmation that those attitudes are correct in any way. It neither agrees with nor dismisses prevalence of such attitudes, but just depicts that that is what they are, because it's of course factually the case. Re-read the entirity of the point on that. We could add strong social disapproval/ostracization from friends and family alike to that, I guess, but it's less relevant to the fact that it's literally premising its incestuous relationship on a foundation that's saying that the relationship itself is being birthed from two mentally unhealthy individuals engaging in behaviors that are very unhealthy. Incest is a side-arm to the fact that the two leads aren't mentally stable individuals in the first place, especially Koushirou. Christ. Of course people are likely to condemn it. Probably because of perceptions like the ones Koi Kaze advocates. The main reason I assert that it's not an explorative show, but rather one that's directly telling its audience about something, is precisely because of the mental instability. If you wanted to reach, you could add the idea that showcasing strong social disapproval and abandonment by one's family/peers is to reinforce the idea that it's wrong by pointing to Japanese social concepts like wa, but I'm hesitating to assert that as being the case precisely because people are likely to condemn it without grasping the nuances of it even in a non-lopsided portrayal regardless of location, and more importantly, it's far less relevant than the heart of what the issue I have with Koi Kaze's depiction of an incestuous relationship is. I don't even see where the offense is in that assertion, honestly, especially now that - later in your post - you start telling me that "Yes, it does this and it's correct in doing so." But apparently I've pissed everyone off again and offended people by saying that Koi Kaze is a show that illustrates a decisive stance against incestuous relationships by portraying the foundation of their relationship as stemming from mental instability, instead of saying that Koi Kaze was being explorative or nuanced about incestuous relationships because it portrayed the foundation of their relationship as stemming from mental instability. WatchTillTandava said: The fact that it portrays two people who aren't mentally the norm doesn't serve as a condemnation of either those characters as individuals or of the relationship they build. To me it seems rather realistic that even those, an extreme minority, who find themselves in such a relationship in real life may be non-neurotypical individuals in many ways. I don't see that as in any way a condemnation of them or the relationship. And this is exactly my point about how it portrays the relationship. The implication is that it's stemming from their poor mental states. That's what it asserts. That's what it communicates. What you're asserting as realistic is what I'm asserting as what it's playing into telling people that they already think would constitute a realistic depiction. You are saying it's correct/factual in doing so. You agree with it's predispostion. Of course you're more likely to find it realistic. But this is why I'm saying it's lacking elements of exploration or nuance - it plays directly into these preconceptions by having the two leads being people who are showcasing a large degree of mental instability and building the taboo relationship on that foundation. WatchTillTandava said: Also, "behaviors that are very unhealthy" is your stance and your opinion - Not the creators/'show's. I mean, is it really that fucking revolutionary to think that constantly lashing out at your S/O in screaming fits as a result of your own personal problems in coping with the relationship, or invading her privacy by sniffing her fucking underwear when she isn't around are unhealthy behaviors? WatchTillTandava said: As for abuse, what abuse? Invasions of privacy, verbal escalation. Y'know. The entire way Koushirou responded to this struggles at coping with wanting to bone his sister and what it spent a good few episodes focusing on before he moved out. WatchTillTandava said: I would say this again would be more realistic and factual, and even widespread outside of specifically incestuous relationships. Any "abuse" shown is extremely mild and I don't believe either the show is holding that up as reason to reject or condemn the relationship of the protagonists featured or believes its audience should or will. And I'll just repeat myself. The assertion of this relationship being realistic or factual hinges on agreeing with the idea that incestuous relationships are for mentally unhealthy individuals who treat each other poorly. Which is why I'm saying it's a show that's decisively against incest, unless, somehow, I'm supposed to believe that portraying something as stemming from poor mental health is supposed to be laudatory or neutral. Which is a giant fucking stretch to make. inim said: That is not how the adult world works. Nobody owes you any explaination, and repeating your opinion in ever more verbose and shrill forms is flat out the behaviour of a child with a tantrum. You're right. They don't owe me an explanation. But because this *is* a discussion board and we're attempting to hold a discussion on something that the continuously assert their disagreement on, then they can walk right out of the fucking conversation entirely if they don't feel the need to explain themselves. Which is what I was getting at with that - it's kind of the point of a fucking forum, and I'm not obligated to be patient if they want to just use me to shout into the void instead of use a discussion board to, y'know, discuss shit. If somebody is attempting to tell you that you're incorrect - again, in a place primarily designed for talking about these things - and you explain why you think you're correct, and they continuously just respond with "no you're wrong" and "there are people who don't think the same way you do," is it really that insane to think that they should just drop out of the conversation? It's not convincing. It's not even really discussing. It's just yelling out that they think I'm wrong over and over again. There's no point in sticking around if you're not willing to say much more than that. Ignore me and move on instead of repeatedly trying to tell me I'm wrong while refusing to expand on that or discuss it further. We're not talking at that point, and I'm actually interested in holding this conversation and asserting my stance on the series, whereas the responses of the other tells me that they're less interested in having this discussion in more interested in just trying to tell me I'm wrong. inim said: Manaban said: So you are trying to tell me you understand a work of art, and everybody else is wrong. Interesting. Grow up and call back when you did.Because I have every reason to believe that describing it as explorative or nuanced is a misrepresentation of the contents of the series tself. Re-read what you're quoting. Ich glaube. Ich denke. "I believe I have every reason to think I'm right here." You need to improve your reading comprehension if you think that this is an absolute, concrete assertion of being correct. I'm halfway convinced you're just trying to throw shit at me now and outright twist what I'm saying, if you're going to miss the mark by such a wide margin. |
ManabanMar 22, 2020 1:16 PM
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Manaban said: You are again trying to tell an adult what to do. Obviously nobody agrees with your "rules" on how to use a forum either. Your problem seems to be that you assume to set the rules. You don't.inim said: There's no point in sticking around if you're not willing to say much more than that. Ignore me and move on instead of repeatedly trying to tell me I'm wrongrepeating your opinion in ever more verbose and shrill forms is flat out the behaviour of a child with a tantrum. |
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inim said: You are again trying to tell an adult what to do. Obviously nobody agrees with your "rules" on how to use a forum either. Your problem seems to be that you assume to set the rules. You don't. It's not really that insane to suggest that a discussion forum should be used to discuss things, and that arguments that don't actually discuss things - and instead, actually just clog up the discussion and force it into stagnation - is counter-intuitive to hosting discussion itself. People are attracted to things on a central basis still, and there's plenty of ways to participate in a fandom without using a discussion board if they don't have any interest in expanding on or talking about their opinions, and are instead perfectly content with just holing themselves up behind an asinine sense of relativism. That's all perfectly fine, but there's no need to subject me to it under the premise of discussing differing perspectives of the show. Ignore me and move on if that's how they want to respond to an opinion. It's all fucking relative, anyway, according to what you've both been telling me. Hence, the criticism of Tandeva's earlier responses on that basis hold up well enough for me to be satisfied with maintaining them. If they're going to quote me and say I'm wrong, I explain my stance, and they continue quoting me without actually saying anything or bringing anything new to the conversation to warrant continuing it, then it's a waste of everyone's fucking time. Just saying "you're telling them what to do" and "your way of using a discussion forum isn't absolute" isn't really convincing enough to make me wanna backtrack on that. |
ManabanMar 22, 2020 1:57 PM
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| I know plenty of people have already said Lain before but hey, it's true. I love it nonetheless. I also agree with the other posters about Koi Kaze. I really enjoyed it but there aren't many people who want to watch slow paced incest anime with a big age gap. |
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