Chihayafuru
| I'm so glad to see this was finally fixed! Not only for Chihayafuru but for the rest of the shows that were affected. |
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| @jkeisan, @FurbyOfDeth, @Punkero, @LoganMcClure21 Is it now? These are the obvious troll/bot accounts taken only from last few hours and only from Chihayafuru 3 scoring panel: https://myanimelist.net/profile/ardi100 https://myanimelist.net/profile/daybitspunch https://myanimelist.net/profile/nabilah100 https://myanimelist.net/profile/ahli100 https://myanimelist.net/profile/panij2844 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Papipapo https://myanimelist.net/profile/RICEMON13 https://myanimelist.net/profile/KuronoKira https://myanimelist.net/profile/Futa_Angel https://myanimelist.net/profile/ShinuKage488 https://myanimelist.net/profile/damex14 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Thorhof Does that look like the issue has been fixed to you? |
Linaeris said: @jkeisan, @FurbyOfDeth, @Punkero, @LoganMcClure21 Is it now? These are the obvious troll/bot accounts taken only from last few hours and only from Chihayafuru 3 scoring panel: https://myanimelist.net/profile/ardi100 https://myanimelist.net/profile/daybitspunch https://myanimelist.net/profile/nabilah100 https://myanimelist.net/profile/ahli100 https://myanimelist.net/profile/panij2844 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Papipapo https://myanimelist.net/profile/RICEMON13 https://myanimelist.net/profile/KuronoKira https://myanimelist.net/profile/Futa_Angel https://myanimelist.net/profile/ShinuKage488 https://myanimelist.net/profile/damex14 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Thorhof Does that look like the issue has been fixed to you? The bot ratings are not removed but they are not counted in the weighted score, did you read the statement released today? |
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| @ACasualViewer Lets be generous and assume you are correct (in my opinion you are not simply by comparing Chihayafuru's rating on 30th of January which was 8,67 according to MAL staff with a current one 8,65 after 2 really good episodes of Chihayafuru), I will wait with celebrations until: a) they (bots) are removed, b) the proper rules regarding rating shows are implemented |
| Also the individual episode's ratings are still an issue which hasn't been fixed. @LoganMcClure21 Considering that a show like Chihayafuru 3 has like ~50-60 new ratings per day then 12 in a few hours is circa 50% of all the new ratings. I wouldn't have called that mostly fixed. |
Rafiti1231 said: Mayuka said: do you feel the same way towards chess, go, mahjong and other table sports? I do not understand why do people try to defend the anime saying that karuta is interesting. The truth is that for most peaople sports like chess or any other table/card games are boring and they don't even treat it as a sport. The point is that chihayafuru and many other anime about weird stuff, make that stuff interesting to watch (mostly thanks to great characters). For an example, let's take ballromm e youkoso. It's a great anime but most peaople who watched it didnt consider ballroom dancing as something interesting and they probably still don't (at least I do not) yet they still enjoyed the show. I still haven't watched the third season of chihayafuru (I prefer to watch anime after they are finished) but I've watched it's previous seasons a few year ago and they were really awesome but not because they were about Karuta, it's because they were extremely well made. I think that everyone who watch something more than popular/seasonal anime can make a simple conclusion, anime can be interesting even if it's about collecting garbage. Ballroom adaptation is horrible tho, how disappointing for one of my favorites manga... But I follow your development for the rest. |
Linaeris said: @ACasualViewer Lets be generous and assume you are correct (in my opinion you are not simply by comparing Chihayafuru's rating on 30th of January which was 8,67 according to MAL staff with a current one 8,65 after 2 really good episodes of Chihayafuru), I will wait with celebrations until: a) they (bots) are removed, b) the proper rules regarding rating shows are implemented It's actually pretty easy to tell that the bot scores are no longer counting, just check Chihayafuru's stats. There's still close to 1000 accounts giving it a 1, yet the score is back up to an 8.65. The new system is evidently not for deleting bot accounts, but rather making them not affect the score. I'm willing to bet that if you checked Ishuzoku Reviewers, it still has a ridiculous number of 10s, but it doesn't affect the score |
| You have shit taste, and then I have taste so shit it makes your taste look good |
Rafiti1231 said: Mayuka said: do you feel the same way towards chess, go, mahjong and other table sports? I do not understand why do people try to defend the anime saying that karuta is interesting. The truth is that for most peaople sports like chess or any other table/card games are boring and they don't even treat it as a sport. The point is that chihayafuru and many other anime about weird stuff, make that stuff interesting to watch (mostly thanks to great characters). For an example, let's take ballromm e youkoso. It's a great anime but most peaople who watched it didnt consider ballroom dancing as something interesting and they probably still don't (at least I do not) yet they still enjoyed the show. I still haven't watched the third season of chihayafuru (I prefer to watch anime after they are finished) but I've watched it's previous seasons a few year ago and they were really awesome but not because they were about Karuta, it's because they were extremely well made. I think that everyone who watch something more than popular/seasonal anime can make a simple conclusion, anime can be interesting even if it's about collecting garbage. Where exactly someone did argue that karuta was interesting? There were only reactions to some very poor baiting. Otherwise, karuta is not a random card game, it is quite a complex one if you take in accounts the combinatorics's complexity of possible strategies concerning card placing or the huge role taken by memory and listening skills. But yes, I agree with you that it is only by a good adaptation that a specific sport (or any other human activity) may shine, but this is quite independent of the "intrinsic" interest that most people have in the subject. There are many bland adaptations of popular sports. Otherwise, one could argue that karuta is interesting because you can present it well and people actually playing karuta in competitions seem to really enjoy it. By the way, I find the poetry part of it quite fascinating, just as much as the Japanese pronunciation makes it so challenging to guess many cards based on first syllable, but who cares. So the image that the majority may or not have about a specific subject is not much relevant to the success of a work of fiction about it (easy example; before reading Proust, I did not imagine that genealogy or that the etymology of the names of towns could be so interesting). I could imagine very well some shounen manga version of the life of a young researcher (in a beloved subject for many, say mathematics) reach great success and even improve the visibility of a commonly hated field of science. Why? Well, most people don't know yet that they love maths. |
MaskOfIce said: Linaeris said: @ACasualViewer Lets be generous and assume you are correct (in my opinion you are not simply by comparing Chihayafuru's rating on 30th of January which was 8,67 according to MAL staff with a current one 8,65 after 2 really good episodes of Chihayafuru), I will wait with celebrations until: a) they (bots) are removed, b) the proper rules regarding rating shows are implemented It's actually pretty easy to tell that the bot scores are no longer counting, just check Chihayafuru's stats. There's still close to 1000 accounts giving it a 1, yet the score is back up to an 8.65. The new system is evidently not for deleting bot accounts, but rather making them not affect the score. I'm willing to bet that if you checked Ishuzoku Reviewers, it still has a ridiculous number of 10s, but it doesn't affect the score That is not what I meant. The previous ones - from before implementing yes, those bot ratings have been mostly dealt with. I am having doubts about the ones that have been created in the last few days. Meaning that the implemented feature "scans" the ratings like an antivirus only once you turn it on and not constantly. |
shinobusanime said: They fixed the scores today, but it was 8.67 this morning and now it's 8.65, there's still people trolling. It's easy to notice, people are now trolling 3s. There are 1 percent 3s compared to 0.2 percent 2s and 4s¡! I believe that the fix works only for 10s and 1s! Kind of laughable that it took them 3+ months to come up with this shoddy fix!! |
| 'I have no bonds tying me down. That's why I can see things as they are!!' - Yugami |
shubh_jain_2 said: shinobusanime said: They fixed the scores today, but it was 8.67 this morning and now it's 8.65, there's still people trolling. It's easy to notice, people are now trolling 3s. There are 1 percent 3s compared to 0.2 percent 2s and 4s¡! I believe that the fix works only for 10s and 1s! Kind of laughable that it took them 3+ months to come up with this shoddy fix!! There have been nine people rating it below a 5/10 in the last 10 hours though and way more people rating it high, so it doesn't seem like people have been fiddling with the score again. |
Gator said: shubh_jain_2 said: It's easy to notice, people are now trolling 3s. There are 1 percent 3s compared to 0.2 percent 2s and 4s¡! I believe that the fix works only for 10s and 1s! Kind of laughable that it took them 3+ months to come up with this shoddy fix!! There have been nine people rating it below a 5/10 in the last 10 hours though and way more people rating it high, so it doesn't seem like people have been fiddling with the score again. And how many of those people that you stated are actually new ratings and not a case of just increasing a number of episodes watched without changing a rating? I am pretty sure you didn't bother to check that. Most of those "way more people rating it high" are not new ratings. Please refrain from spreading misinformation. |
Linaeris said: Gator said: There have been nine people rating it below a 5/10 in the last 10 hours though and way more people rating it high, so it doesn't seem like people have been fiddling with the score again. And how many of those people that you stated are actually new ratings and not a case of just increasing a number of episodes watched without changing a rating? I am pretty sure you didn't bother to check that. Most of those "way more people rating it high" are not new ratings. Please refrain from spreading misinformation. Well I don't really get why that matters. If those 9 people are old ratings and they just increased the episode count, then the rating won't change at all. If those 9 people are new ratings, they won't matter enough with the other 50.000 people to change the score by 0.02. So people rating 3/10 can't possibly be the reason why the score changed in the last hours. If you accuse me of spreading misinformation, please prove the opposite. |
-MEHMET- said: shubh_jain_2 said: It's easy to notice, people are now trolling 3s. There are 1 percent 3s compared to 0.2 percent 2s and 4s¡! I believe that the fix works only for 10s and 1s! Kind of laughable that it took them 3+ months to come up with this shoddy fix!! Uchuu Senkan Yamato 2199 and Aria The Natural downvoted with 4 & 5 scores from the same guy. If USY 2199 and ATN's score increase soon, this means new system works with every type of scores. If these animes' score don't increase we can inform admins about this sitution. I don't see any anamoly for 4s and 5s in there rating distribution, it's standard. Further they have too many 1s and there score should obviously increase |
| 'I have no bonds tying me down. That's why I can see things as they are!!' - Yugami |
| I think that there is indeed something suspicious since the announced fixed score was 8.67, but at the exact moment where it came back to normal, the score was already 8.65. So the suspicion of score manipulation seems quite high to me (seems that people created bots/fake accounts in the meantime between the announcement and the implementation). But it does not seem to be a big issue at the moment, so we should maybe a wait a little bit before being too picky about the fix. |
-MEHMET- said: Meusnier said: I think that there is indeed something suspicious since the announced fixed score was 8.67, but at the exact moment where it came back to normal, the score was already 8.65. So the suspicion of score manipulation seems quite high to me (seems that people created bots/fake accounts in the meantime between the announcement and the implementation). But it does not seem to be a big issue at the moment, so we should maybe a wait a little bit before being too picky about the fix. Most of the announced fixed scores have ±0.02 tolerance so there's nothing suspicious yet. Thank you very much for your reply. You are right, I have just checked the top 10 and comparing to Kineta's post and we see indeed discrepancies ( -0.1 for Kimi no na ha and Ginga Eiyuu Densetsu, and the rest is correct). |
-MEHMET- said: shubh_jain_2 said: I don't see any anamoly for 4s and 5s in there rating distribution, it's standard. Further they have too many 1s and there score should obviously increase In Chihayafuru 3's case, most of the 3s are from bot accounts, not 4s and 5s. Yeah, I know, I posted that :) . I was talking about the other 2 shows. |
| 'I have no bonds tying me down. That's why I can see things as they are!!' - Yugami |
Rafiti1231 said: Nah, I agree. Tabletop games are generally pretty boring (unless you're already into it)Mayuka said: do you feel the same way towards chess, go, mahjong and other table sports? I do not understand why do people try to defend the anime saying that karuta is interesting. The truth is that for most peaople sports like chess or any other table/card games are boring and they don't even treat it as a sport. The point is that chihayafuru and many other anime about weird stuff, make that stuff interesting to watch (mostly thanks to great characters). For an example, let's take ballromm e youkoso. It's a great anime but most peaople who watched it didnt consider ballroom dancing as something interesting and they probably still don't (at least I do not) yet they still enjoyed the show. I still haven't watched the third season of chihayafuru (I prefer to watch anime after they are finished) but I've watched it's previous seasons a few year ago and they were really awesome but not because they were about Karuta, it's because they were extremely well made. I think that everyone who watch something more than popular/seasonal anime can make a simple conclusion, anime can be interesting even if it's about collecting garbage. I'm not defending the anime saying Karuta is interesting but at the same time, I truly don't think people should be making arguments that "this anime sucks because the card game sucks". That is not a valid argument lmfao. Meusnier said: I said chess first, so I hope that you are ready to pay me some royalties. The price would be a good anime recommendation! This is gonna be a stretch but Free! is one of the most similar anime to Chihayafuru. They handle drama and character building the same way. It's also more about the team than the individual. |
Mayuka said: Rafiti1231 said: Nah, I agree. Tabletop games are generally pretty boring (unless you're already into it)I do not understand why do people try to defend the anime saying that karuta is interesting. The truth is that for most peaople sports like chess or any other table/card games are boring and they don't even treat it as a sport. The point is that chihayafuru and many other anime about weird stuff, make that stuff interesting to watch (mostly thanks to great characters). For an example, let's take ballromm e youkoso. It's a great anime but most peaople who watched it didnt consider ballroom dancing as something interesting and they probably still don't (at least I do not) yet they still enjoyed the show. I still haven't watched the third season of chihayafuru (I prefer to watch anime after they are finished) but I've watched it's previous seasons a few year ago and they were really awesome but not because they were about Karuta, it's because they were extremely well made. I think that everyone who watch something more than popular/seasonal anime can make a simple conclusion, anime can be interesting even if it's about collecting garbage. I'm not defending the anime saying Karuta is interesting but at the same time, I truly don't think people should be making arguments that "this anime sucks because the card game sucks". That is not a valid argument lmfao. Meusnier said: I said chess first, so I hope that you are ready to pay me some royalties. The price would be a good anime recommendation! This is gonna be a stretch but Free! is one of the most similar anime to Chihayafuru. They handle drama and character building the same way. It's also more about the team than the individual. Ha ha, thanks you, really a title that I did not expect! In the recommendation, there is an anime I had never heard off Fukumenkei Noise (the ratings are quite low, but whatever, I need to wait for April...). I guess that you might write a recommendation on Free!, because it seems a priori quite far from Chihayafuru. |
| Justice finally served. |
| Why did people even downvote it in the first place? I'm really curious about what was going on.. |
Mayuka said: Meusnier said: I said chess first, so I hope that you are ready to pay me some royalties. The price would be a good anime recommendation! This is gonna be a stretch but Free! is one of the most similar anime to Chihayafuru. They handle drama and character building the same way. It's also more about the team than the individual. Isn't this the only thing similar to chihayafuru? :P Free doesn't have the romance part and what's the most important, in my opinion in free! the sport part isn't as nearly as good as it is in chihayafuru. I'm a big fan of sports anime and that's probably why chihayafuru was so surprising. It's a shoujo/josei anime but the sport part is made like in the most epic shounen. I think I've never seen any other show when the main character is a girl and the sport part is done seriously. |
Rafiti1231 said: Chihayafuru doesn't have much romance and I never found it the main focus of the series. I agree, Chihayafuru is much better in terms of sports but both of those anime felt similar to each other when it was about character growth. Out of all the sports anime I've seen, Free! is the most similar to Chihayafuru.Mayuka said: This is gonna be a stretch but Free! is one of the most similar anime to Chihayafuru. They handle drama and character building the same way. It's also more about the team than the individual. Isn't this the only thing similar to chihayafuru? :P Free doesn't have the romance part and what's the most important, in my opinion in free! the sport part isn't as nearly as good as it is in chihayafuru. I'm a big fan of sports anime and that's probably why chihayafuru was so surprising. It's a shoujo/josei anime but the sport part is made like in the most epic shounen. I think I've never seen any other show when the main character is a girl and the sport part is done seriously. |
| Looking through the stats list it seems like theres still some guys voting 1/10's, I dont think those have any affect on the score anymore tho right? |
Rafiti1231 said: Mayuka said: This is gonna be a stretch but Free! is one of the most similar anime to Chihayafuru. They handle drama and character building the same way. It's also more about the team than the individual. Isn't this the only thing similar to chihayafuru? :P Free doesn't have the romance part and what's the most important, in my opinion in free! the sport part isn't as nearly as good as it is in chihayafuru. I'm a big fan of sports anime and that's probably why chihayafuru was so surprising. It's a shoujo/josei anime but the sport part is made like in the most epic shounen. I think I've never seen any other show when the main character is a girl and the sport part is done seriously. Right, the shounen part is quite awesome at times (like Taichi's final match in S2, or Chihaya's unparalleled motivation and dedication which reminded me strongly Bakuman actually). Otherwise, there is a reason why there is a whole thread comparing it to 3-gatsu no Lion; both anime provide a quite similar vibe and deal with competition extremely well, although 3-gatsu does not try to make the shougi matches "shounen" but chooses rather a more realistic description of the characters's growth as players, and treats depression at a whole different level (it is just seen from far with Arata, but depicts quite well the loss of motivation of players too). |
Gator said: Linaeris said: And how many of those people that you stated are actually new ratings and not a case of just increasing a number of episodes watched without changing a rating? I am pretty sure you didn't bother to check that. Most of those "way more people rating it high" are not new ratings. Please refrain from spreading misinformation. Well I don't really get why that matters. If those 9 people are old ratings and they just increased the episode count, then the rating won't change at all. If those 9 people are new ratings, they won't matter enough with the other 50.000 people to change the score by 0.02. So people rating 3/10 can't possibly be the reason why the score changed in the last hours. If you accuse me of spreading misinformation, please prove the opposite. I already did that in this discussion posts number #1148-1152 (11 out of 12 listed bot/troll ratings are from accounts made less than 7 days ago as far as I remember) And you continue to spread misinformation. Currently Chihayafuru 3 has been rated by 9458 people (not 50000) out of which a little over 2000 are bots which ratings are not taken into account that leaves us with around 7400 accounted ratings. Chihayafuru 3 started airing on 23rd of October which means 112 days ago. 7400/112=66 ratings/day. If you take into account that approx 1-1,5k people rated it in the 1st week after it started airing it leaves us with approx 6000/100=60 ratings/day. I had listed there only the most obvious bots/trolls, there were 3 or 4 more ratings x=<3 in a span of around 8 hours. Lets be generous and assume 30/day. In your observation it was 9 ratings in 10 hours => approx 20/day. 20-30/day out of around 60 which is 30%-50%. Even if we go with 20 out of 100 it still is 20%. I don't think there is anything to be happy about in the current state of the matter (I know it is suppose to be only the 1st stage of the planned features). Even if those bots were MAL staff's test runs (which is unlikely) it still shows that the implemented feature worked only on already existing bot ratings and only by making most of them excluded from calculating the final rating which is worse state of affairs than a year ago when illegitimate accounts after confirmation were deleted. |
| Chihayafuru is back to its rightful place. Now.. How long can this score hold on until these stupid degenerates try to find another workaround to downvote this? |
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| See like what i said if theres no troll votes on Chihayafuru 3 it will be higher than 8.50+ Finally it back where it belongs Thanks to shitty nox fans for waking up the mods that had been sleeping for a very long time |
| B O C C H I S W E E P |
| YESSSS!!!!!!! Finally we have Chihayafuru 3 legit score back, thank you mods for all your hard work and dedication of fixing the issue, MAL scoreboard is shining once again. |
| Can't wait to see Chihayafuru 3's score once the show finish airing. |
| Finally a decent legit 8.++ score. It may still has a few trolls around but this is much better than undeserving 7.25 score. |
| And the score is starting to drop again. How long did this last, 3 days? |
Fionavar said: And the score is starting to drop again. How long did this last, 3 days? Check the scores for yourself over the last 24 hours. Most of them are between the 7-10 score range. Either these are genuine scores, or the trolls are becoming more sophisticated with their voting patterns. I'd say it's the former. |
xenosys said: Fionavar said: And the score is starting to drop again. How long did this last, 3 days? Check the scores for yourself over the last 24 hours. Most of them are between the 7-10 score range. Either these are genuine scores, or the trolls are becoming more sophisticated with their voting patterns. I'd say it's the former. Maybe im overreacting but I fear now that some of those trolls see they CAN still manipulate the score I doubt they will pass up that opportunity. |
-MEHMET- said: xenosys said: Check the scores for yourself over the last 24 hours. Most of them are between the 7-10 score range. Either these are genuine scores, or the trolls are becoming more sophisticated with their voting patterns. I'd say it's the former. Most of the scores in stats are old scores from the people who updating their watched episodes. Right, and there is an quite ridiculous argument going on the about the -0.01 of FMBA on the score fix thread. Better wait for a substantial score drop before complaining in my opinion. Furthermore, highly rated series will always attract salty people and fanboys (not bots) who will put low score without even watching them. |
Fionavar said: And the score is starting to drop again. How long did this last, 3 days? I noticed that the score dropped only by 0.01, so it's not that much. From what I saw after checking out scores given by other people, many people who actually watch Chihayafuru 3 and are up to date with the newest episodes have already rated it quite high. As @xenosys noticed, most of the scores are between 7-10 score range, so in example if there were many 7/10 given, then it's obvious that Chihayafuru 3's score would go slightly down. But yeah, I was worried at first as well. I know drops and rises happen all the time and it's normal, but after seeing what happened with Chihayafuru 3 some time ago I wanted to check whether it was natural drop or another troll(s) wanted to mess with the scoring system again. I'm relieved it is most likely natural display of preferences of people who actually watch this show. The newly implemented system works great and I'm happy it fixed everything. When I read the announcement about it finally working I was very happy indeed, but I though "too good to be true" and really hoped the new protection about voting manipulators will stay as strong as it was some time after implementing it. Fortunately, it worked, is working and let's hope it will work for eternity, heh. :) |
Fionavar said: People were probably trying to counteract trolls by rating this a 10. Now that botting isn't that big of an issue, they probably changed their rating to something else (probably from 7-9).And the score is starting to drop again. How long did this last, 3 days? Same probably happened to Hagaren/FMAB |
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| Why is 3/10 growing, I wonder... That's suspicious. |
Afloo said: Fionavar said: People were probably trying to counteract trolls by rating this a 10. Now that botting isn't that big of an issue, they probably changed their rating to something else (probably from 7-9).And the score is starting to drop again. How long did this last, 3 days? Same probably happened to Hagaren/FMAB Oh that makes sense! Didnt even thought about that, thanks! :D |
| https://myanimelist.net/profile/Tiergod2 people rly has free time holy god, i guess he put many shows to deceive the system https://myanimelist.net/profile/Tiergod3 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Tiergod4 here he restricted the list to hide it |
| A person's life is not comprised of four repeating season, but a year-long winter wilderness, whether or not you stop to wipe your blood or tears, they will inevitably freeze over. |
| I'm glad that it's fixed. |
 |
Mayuka said: If the system was really fixed (i.e. using statistically proved mechanics, theorems and algorhytms), any sudden change in the trend that falls outside of the error/tendency margin (like the sudden growth in 3s and 5s) should not be accounted.Why is 3/10 growing, I wonder... That's suspicious. |
| Anime was a mistake. Heil Manga. |
| I wonder why Season 3? What about seasons 1 & 2? The logic on these people |
animelly said: I wonder why Season 3? What about seasons 1 & 2? The logic on these people Probably because this season is currently airing and is an easier target to downvote compared to the other 2 seasons that have accumulated ratings throughout the last several years. The score is fixed now though. |
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