Magia Record: Mahou Shoujo Madoka☆Magica Gaiden (TV) Episode 2 Discussion

xergiokw said:
I don't know why there are so many comparing this with the original series. It's a different story, f***. Shut up and enjoy.

Phosphollite said:


"Shut up and enjoy" is probably the least helpful comment you can make imo. People are, obviously, allowed to express their opinions and criticize Magia Record. Especially when their criticisms are exactly WHY they can't enjoy the anime. Also, it's completely reasonable for people to compare the original and Magia Record, they're from the same series. Sure, they're not from the same writer, but they're still in the same universe and (will eventually) include the original cast. Nevermind that to watch Magia record, you have to have watched the original to understand the universe (magical girls, witches, etc), thus it literally can't be judged simply on its own merits in the same way an original anime can be.

xergiokw said:


I'm not new to the universe, so there's no need to explain all of that. My scarce words wanted to say that it's not fair to say that this show is bad or unenjoyable because it's not as deep as the original series. Come on, the truth is no longer a secret, what did they expect? Why putting all these expectations and pressure on a show with just 2 episodes? Why judging an anime for what they think it should have been?

If they want something as good as madoka magica they and their pessimism can go and watch madoka magica.

Nox0s said:
So did both of the girls that got in the fight get put into the stairs or only the red haired girl?

Ryoketsu said:


Is that an official source? It doesn't seem to be. Has anyone from the studio officially confirmed this?

AyumiVk said:


I don't know, but judging by the pacing that the story is going i can garantee you this will not have just one cour.
If anything i think it'll be 2 cours with some months in between the first and the second.

xergiokw said:
I don't know why there are so many comparing this with the original series. It's a different story, f***. Shut up and enjoy.

salarx said:

Remember Kyoko's father? He was boycotted only because he preached different. Same is the fate of Magia Record.

Also the original series was able to pull a surprise because people didn't expect a magical girl show to be like that. Now there's Magia Record, which is not only a Magical Girl show but a Madoka Magica show, and it'll be hard to pull a same level of trick when people are analyzing each scene and episode. Still, I'll have faith in Shaft and next episode is gonna be exciting.

Phosphollite said:


"He was boycotted only because he preached different", like I said to xergiokw, dismissing criticism as being in bad faith just because it doesn't align with how you experience or enjoy the anime is pretty puerile. From what I've seen, the people who have criticized Magia Record (on this forum specifically) enjoyed the original and thus probably didn't go into this anime thinking or wanting to hate it. Myself included. It's dishonest, hand-waving away any sort articulate critiques or reasons as to why people aren't enjoying Magia Record, even when they enjoyed the original.

"Also the original series was able to pull a surprise because people didn't expect a magical girl show to be like that". While that was part of the appeal of the original, subverting the viewer's expectations of what the show was going to be like, it's only part of what made Madoka Magica so beloved. It's not a detective story, it's not a mystery, it doesn't have to rely solely on "deconstructing the magical girl genre" to be enjoyable and have narrative depth that, currently, Magia Record doesn't seem to be having. There's so much more to Madoka Magica than simply the episode three twist (even the two episodes before that twist were enjoyable and had their own narrative depth), so Magia Record shouldn't be given a free pass for questionable writing decisions just because "the jig is up".

salarx said:


You're on point, and I'm sure most of us have seen Madoka Magica here and is one of the most favorite show for many of us. The only general issue I see here is the fast pacing, for everything else, everyone is biased on the matter why they like / dislike the show so far (even I'm biased).

As player of the game, I guess I'm more focusing on the various additions and symbolism that adds depth to this episode, so the episode is exciting to me. I guess people not familiar with game would not find anything exciting, because many things are unknown to them.

That's why I feel Madoka Magica is not a one time watch show, and I can say the same about Magia Record as of now. If I had watched Madoka Magica only once, I would have given it an 8.5 or 9, but only after watching it many times, there are many things I had missed the last time I watched it. That's why I feel commenting on the subject of depth is too early, since we don't know what you've overlooked. But that's my own opinion, feel free to disagree with me (don't want to argue further so probably my last reply to you on this episode thread).

Phosphollite said:

The characters, of course, need to be given the time to develop, but the original gave every girl individual intrigue (except Homura, whose arc was continued in Rebellion) and introduced them seperately. So, as the audience, we're not asked to distribute our attention over three seperate new characters. This cast just ends up feeling cluttered and forgettable, even when you don't compare them to the original cast.

"As player of the game", well considering the anime is (currently) not following the story progression of the game, it should be able to stand on its own, even without knowing anything about the game.

salarx said:

So you're claiming that characters need time to develop, but you also agree the development can take place later too. And then you're comparing main characters to non-main characters. So according to you it becomes an issue if character development is handled in different way than original series, and it's a rule to develop characters in same way as the original Madoka Magica, even for the non-main characters. Man I hate they didn't develop the character of the grey hair girl that Rena had transformed into (I really do hate it, since she's my favorite, but she's not main character so can't really complain).

And ofcourse, it should be able to stand on its own, and probably it will. But the problem is not that it lacks information or depth, but simply, you're inability to detect it. Pay a little more attention and you won't find the episode boring (you don't need prior knowledge of game, it only makes the detection easy and exciting).

We have different opinions here, and while you're trying to convince me why this episode was bad, I'll try to convince you and others why it isn't.

Phosphollite said:
I guess people not familiar with game would not find anything exciting, because many things are unknown to them". By your own admission, the anime literally can't stand on its own, because it's not enjoyable without having played the game.

Phosphollite said:

The characters, of course, need to be given the time to develop, but the original gave every girl individual intrigue (except Homura, whose arc was continued in Rebellion) and introduced them seperately. So, as the audience, we're not asked to distribute our attention over three seperate new characters. This cast just ends up feeling cluttered and forgettable, even when you don't compare them to the original cast.

salarx said:


If I may just throw my two cents in here, I don't think this read is an objective fact. NOT SAYING you're reading it incorrectly, rather I'm reinforcing the idea that art is an amorphous blob with which the consumer is allowed to press their own interpretations upon it.

I'm sure I don't need to explain this though, as reading through your replies you're clearly very intelligent! I'm only preceding my point with this so you know where I'm coming from.

I don't believe the existence of an interpersonal conflict between side characters asks the audience to be "emotionally invested" within the conflict itself, as though we're back to pitying Sayaka after seeing her struggle for six episodes. That's unrealistic. Rather, in introducing this plot point with this "rumor," we see it's embodied by an actual Witch (thus lending more intrigue to the narrative regarding the large number of powerful witches in Kamihama), and it was used to characterize these new girls without us having them exposit to us. In terms of stakes, I don't think we're supposed to be scared for Kaede beyond her being a kind, fragile girl who put Iroha's interests before her own and is now in danger - in a similar vain, it asks us to care as much as we did about Hitomi in episode 4 of Madoka Magica.

In terms of emotional investment, however, the narrative of the episode was evidently putting more focus on the Rena character. And in my opinion, it did that well and with much subtlety: she uses her powers to avoid her classmates, is close enough with her teammates to be friends with them outside of work (opposing Iroha's distant relationship with Kuroe), and their banter and argument implies a deep familiarity with one another. We're even told right off the bat that Rena has a forceful personality, but it's not out of animosity. And in light of her argument, and her apparent writing of their names upon the staircase, it becomes clear she's not a good people person, she knows it, and hates it. She hates herself - as evidenced by her power, I think, as in typical Madoka fashion they often speak of the girls' character (whether it's by outfits or theme their magical girl persona goes for).

Anybody willing to do the work and meet the narrative halfway will find themselves empathizing with and pitying Rena, and coming back next week to see her reaction to having Kaede be taken by a Witch.

The cast might be cluttered now, I agree - we have six girls so far, after all, with more to clearly come. But rather than giving everybody something to work with, it gives us a general idea of all of them while, for the sake of the current narrative, placing emphasis on Rena and Iroha.

In my opinion, it did the same thing with the OG show: Madoka was meek and unremarkable, but she wanted to do more. Sayaka is charismatic and loud, but passionate and honest. Homura is mysterious and distant. Mami, by this point, was an angel of justice who lived alone and sought to comfort the victims of Witches - which, at the time, wasn't as special as we would eventually realize it'd be.

When you look at Magia Record's characters so far, you can summarize everybody in much the same way: Iroha is hard-working and kind, a pushover and lonely, whose closest friend seemed to have been a sister she only just remembered - something, knowing her, makes her feel horrible for that alone.

Yachiyo is clearly mature and skilled, having done this for a while and her want of protecting outside magical girls from Kamihama witches suggests a painful history.

Kuroe is softspoken and distant; her wish and current relationship status - not just with her boyfriend but Iroha - implies regret which she uses now to keep others at arms length. Her eagerness to know of the rumor about magical girls, and current silence whereas before she answered, has unfortunate implications that she bought into it.

Momoko, the big sister type, clearly doesn't know what she's doing but she tries her best. If she's friends with someone like Rena and Kaede, she might not have others who are as close.

Kaede initially comes off as the meek and clumsy pushover, only to bare her fangs when it comes to something she knows - that being Rena. Her wish and passion for nature suggests a relatively solitary and oft-dismissed lifestyle with which she lives for, and is willing to trade her life for.

And I already went over Rena.

Don't mistake my larger paragraphs on the MR girls for my saying they're better characters so far than the MM ones. I'm only trying to show there's plenty subtlety you can glean from the girls in their hobbies and behaviors just as you can in the MM girls.

Personally, PERSONALLY mind you, I do think there is a bias in some people that can't be ignored and critiqued. I'm NOT saying "shut up and enjoy stop comparing it." Because that's asinine, and of course, for obvious reasons you don't need to explain again, people are going to compare the two.

What I am saying, and hope comes across for you, is that there's going to be people unfairly critiquing MR for not doing what they want it to do, and dressing these complaints as sophisticated, objective flaws just because it doesn't have the twists and suffering the OG show had.

Because, guess what? Given that she's in the opening, I think it's safe to say they're going to get Kaede back safe and sound. And it's not going to matter how well-written it is, how much sense it makes, or how much it services the characters involved - because there's certainly going to be some people who see that, remember MM, and say this show is bad JUST BECAUSE Kaede didn't die when she certainly would have if Gen the Butcher were at the helm.

Ignoring the fact that the suffering served the characters in MM, which is what people should focus on, rather than only exist to shock the audience.

Hell, I saw one person in this thread drop this show from a 9 to a 7, apparently because it occurred to them that this wasn't going to be a show about little girls suffering and ascending to godhood.

Like, for corn's sake - this isn't going to be the same story as Madoka Magica! I get the criticisms about the pacing and the cast size, I do and I agree as of right now. But I don't agree this show feels hollow and its characters forgettable just because the shoe hasn't dropped yet.

That's my two cents anyway.

ysphyr said:
Outstanding visuals and soundtrack! I'm really enjoying this one so far.

"Love" people like Rena - they'll pick fight with you and then act all offended like it's your fault, pathetic. I feel like Kaede will get killed because of her(

Also what's up with Ui, why is she gone? Does that staircase thing has anything to do with that? I'm so confused

ShukugawaMeguri said:
it is sequel from madoka magica, maybe Madoka not wake up or showing at this time, maybe xD.

Nemesis16 said:
And that those characters are 12 years old.

ysphyr said:


She started it with insultinhg her family, no? Why are you defending that bish anyway? She said some harsh words to sweet girl Kaede, then went on that staircase and wrote her name on it.

Haha I feel so fired up. I live for teeny drama!

Casul_Noob1997 said:

and it was used to characterize these new girls without us having them exposit to us. In terms of stakes, I don't think we're supposed to be scared for Kaede beyond her being a kind, fragile girl who put Iroha's interests before her own and is now in danger - in a similar vain, it asks us to care as much as we did about Hitomi in episode 4 of Madoka Magica.

salarx said:


If I may just throw my two cents in here, I don't think this read is an objective fact. NOT SAYING you're reading it incorrectly, rather I'm reinforcing the idea that art is an amorphous blob with which the consumer is allowed to press their own interpretations upon it.

I'm sure I don't need to explain this though, as reading through your replies you're clearly very intelligent! I'm only preceding my point with this so you know where I'm coming from.

I don't believe the existence of an interpersonal conflict between side characters asks the audience to be "emotionally invested" within the conflict itself, as though we're back to pitying Sayaka after seeing her struggle for six episodes. That's unrealistic. Rather, in introducing this plot point with this "rumor," we see it's embodied by an actual Witch (thus lending more intrigue to the narrative regarding the large number of powerful witches in Kamihama), and it was used to characterize these new girls without us having them exposit to us. In terms of stakes, I don't think we're supposed to be scared for Kaede beyond her being a kind, fragile girl who put Iroha's interests before her own and is now in danger - in a similar vain, it asks us to care as much as we did about Hitomi in episode 4 of Madoka Magica.

In terms of emotional investment, however, the narrative of the episode was evidently putting more focus on the Rena character. And in my opinion, it did that well and with much subtlety: she uses her powers to avoid her classmates, is close enough with her teammates to be friends with them outside of work (opposing Iroha's distant relationship with Kuroe), and their banter and argument implies a deep familiarity with one another. We're even told right off the bat that Rena has a forceful personality, but it's not out of animosity. And in light of her argument, and her apparent writing of their names upon the staircase, it becomes clear she's not a good people person, she knows it, and hates it. She hates herself - as evidenced by her power, I think, as in typical Madoka fashion they often speak of the girls' character (whether it's by outfits or theme their magical girl persona goes for).

Anybody willing to do the work and meet the narrative halfway will find themselves empathizing with and pitying Rena, and coming back next week to see her reaction to having Kaede be taken by a Witch.

The cast might be cluttered now, I agree - we have six girls so far, after all, with more to clearly come. But rather than giving everybody something to work with, it gives us a general idea of all of them while, for the sake of the current narrative, placing emphasis on Rena and Iroha.

In my opinion, it did the same thing with the OG show: Madoka was meek and unremarkable, but she wanted to do more. Sayaka is charismatic and loud, but passionate and honest. Homura is mysterious and distant. Mami, by this point, was an angel of justice who lived alone and sought to comfort the victims of Witches - which, at the time, wasn't as special as we would eventually realize it'd be.

When you look at Magia Record's characters so far, you can summarize everybody in much the same way: Iroha is hard-working and kind, a pushover and lonely, whose closest friend seemed to have been a sister she only just remembered - something, knowing her, makes her feel horrible for that alone.

Yachiyo is clearly mature and skilled, having done this for a while and her want of protecting outside magical girls from Kamihama witches suggests a painful history.

Kuroe is softspoken and distant; her wish and current relationship status - not just with her boyfriend but Iroha - implies regret which she uses now to keep others at arms length. Her eagerness to know of the rumor about magical girls, and current silence whereas before she answered, has unfortunate implications that she bought into it.

Momoko, the big sister type, clearly doesn't know what she's doing but she tries her best. If she's friends with someone like Rena and Kaede, she might not have others who are as close.

Kaede initially comes off as the meek and clumsy pushover, only to bare her fangs when it comes to something she knows - that being Rena. Her wish and passion for nature suggests a relatively solitary and oft-dismissed lifestyle with which she lives for, and is willing to trade her life for.

And I already went over Rena.

Don't mistake my larger paragraphs on the MR girls for my saying they're better characters so far than the MM ones. I'm only trying to show there's plenty subtlety you can glean from the girls in their hobbies and behaviors just as you can in the MM girls.

Personally, PERSONALLY mind you, I do think there is a bias in some people that can't be ignored and critiqued. I'm NOT saying "shut up and enjoy stop comparing it." Because that's asinine, and of course, for obvious reasons you don't need to explain again, people are going to compare the two.

What I am saying, and hope comes across for you, is that there's going to be people unfairly critiquing MR for not doing what they want it to do, and dressing these complaints as sophisticated, objective flaws just because it doesn't have the twists and suffering the OG show had.

Because, guess what? Given that she's in the opening, I think it's safe to say they're going to get Kaede back safe and sound. And it's not going to matter how well-written it is, how much sense it makes, or how much it services the characters involved - because there's certainly going to be some people who see that, remember MM, and say this show is bad JUST BECAUSE Kaede didn't die when she certainly would have if Gen the Butcher were at the helm.

Ignoring the fact that the suffering served the characters in MM, which is what people should focus on, rather than only exist to shock the audience.

Hell, I saw one person in this thread drop this show from a 9 to a 7, apparently because it occurred to them that this wasn't going to be a show about little girls suffering and ascending to godhood.

Like, for corn's sake - this isn't going to be the same story as Madoka Magica! I get the criticisms about the pacing and the cast size, I do and I agree as of right now. But I don't agree this show feels hollow and its characters forgettable just because the shoe hasn't dropped yet.

That's my two cents anyway.

Phosphollite said:


"Rather, in introducing this plot point with this "rumor," we see it's embodied by an actual Witch (thus lending more intrigue to the narrative regarding the large number of powerful witches in Kamihama), and it was used to characterize these new girls without us having them exposit to us". While I see where you're coming from, and I agree with your idea of it being an establishment of these "rumors" without having them sit down and dumping exposition on Iroha (and in turn, the audience), I still don't believe it's handled as well as it could've been, which I'll try to explain in my next item;

"In terms of emotional investment, however, the narrative of the episode was evidently putting more focus on the Rena character". This doesn't exactly take away from the fact that (in my opinion) the last scene of episode two felt melodramatic and stilted exactly because, as a viewer, I don't know Kaede or Rena very long or very well. I don't think you can written off (not exactly the right words to use, but I hope you understand what I'm trying to say) as being simply narrative tools to do non-verbal exposition, because the chain witch scene does rely on the viewer empathizing with Rena, which is pretty difficult when the anime doesn't really give the audience the time or room to start to become more attached to her. Otherwise it'll end up feeling like how I felt it was, melodramatic and awkward. Only after completing the episode and rewatching it did I get the time and space to really dig deeper into Rena as a character, but even then, the ending still doesn't really have much impact on me. Besides that, I still feel like giving the witches voices takes away from their horrifying, alien nature and instead makes the whole scene feel really cheesy and the witches less intimidating.

salarx said:


I hear what you're saying in regards to everything I didn't quote (thus why I didn't, as there's nothing more for me to say - we both grok each other here!).

For me though, in regards to the emotional investment of the final scene, empathizing with Rena is more just a bonus if a viewer had been able to do that up to this point - I have, for example. However, the tone and execution of the scene seemed to be more about showcasing this strange "rumor-witch" and gutting the audience, and Rena, with the horrific reality that it's an actual thing.

It was a creepy scene, as many have said, and a gripping part to end the episode on. In terms of the emotion though, it was one of those things where I can watch it and say, "there's a lot of history between these two if Kaede is going this far to confront Rena." It, at the very least, makes me believe in their friendship we only just met, which is more important for this point in time than getting us to care on an emotional level about what amounts to a verbal sparring between high school girls.

As far as the melodrama and the talking Witch is concerned, I think you might have some info mixed up here. Witches have spoken before (and I don't mean Walpurgis Night's laughter). Remember the first Witch Homura ever encountered, and it told her to kill herself? All Witches do this, they whisper in their victims' ears.

And there's an interesting bit of shot composition with Kaede and Rena speaking with one another - in one, they're shrouded in fog and surrounded by Familiars. They're saying all these things to Rena like "Kaede is the reason people hate me," and, "she's so weak and helpless." Rena is crying out for these things to stop, while Kaede is saying her name over and over - implying that these things are being spoken to in Rena's head, that they're her real feelings which she hates to have.

Kaede shows no reaction to these things, these Familiars, and the composition of a shot where they're surrounded by fog repeats, this time back in "reality." Given that Kaede was introduced running scared from an actual Witch, we have reason to believe Rena was the only one who saw this Witch and its Familiars.

All I'm saying is, it's subtle, but there's more to this then what appears on the surface. Melodramatic? Yes, but like that time with Homura it's playing on the victim's fears.

Regardless, I appreciate you giving MR credit where it's due!

Phosphollite said:
But what I meant with "denying criticism as being in bad faith", specifically in my comments towards salarx and xergiokw, is that both of them seemed to handwave criticism by accusing MR's detractors to be too "biased" or "pessimistic", even attempting to paint themselves (salarx specifically, not xergiokw in this case) as righteous victims by equating themselves to a "boycotted" preacher. I felt like it was dishonest to suggest that all previous criticism (from me and from some of the other commenters) was unfounded, thus why I said what I said about dismissing criticism.

milkclub said:

This is a good way to put it. It's not because two cute characters that might be important later on are fighting that the anime necessarily expects the audience to be emotionally invested. Introducing characters by showing how they react to conflicts is as valid as taking your time letting the audience know them before throwing problems their way.

Nemesis16 said:
Seriously, people shouldn't compare it to Madoka Magica. It isn't even a sequel but a side story with complete different characters. It needs to be good on its own as an adaptation of the mobile game, not better than the original series.

JayBlue said:
My only real complaint with this anime so for is that they haven't presented us with new music that can match Kajiura did and still fit the mood, so they're relying on the original PMMM tracks from the TV series.

AyumiVk said:


I don't know, but judging by the pacing that the story is going i can garantee you this will not have just one cour.
If anything i think it'll be 2 cours with some months in between the first and the second.