| Just a note, people weren't calling him a tyrant. That was Merlin. And he was lying because he's a troll, he knew from the beginning that he was just scaring Ritsuka and that Gilgamesh isn't the irrational tyrant anymore. Also yes, this series shows how people in Uruk are great, they are strong willed but kind people, and it makes you see why Gilgamesh hates the modern era and modern humans. Doesn't justify trying to murder them all tho, and that is still an exaggeration of his character that he wouldn't normally do: he decides to do it in stay night because he's incarnated and that makes him more angry and violent. You see that, normally summoned as a Servant like in Zero, he still hates the modern era but he wouldn't actually plan for a genocide. In Extra CCC he's even more chill, like a mix between his Zero version and his Babylonia version. There are layers of reasons behind his actions (in every series but specifically in stay night, in every route, not only UBW), while he thinks that most moder humans are a waste, he finds the world a bit amusing. He's not a psychopath that immediately decides to kill everyone just because they aren't like in his times. He didn't even want to "win" the war at first in Zero, just prevent the other from winning. And those were all thoughs of his youth. Here in Babylonia, his ideals aren't the same. He's still arrogant, but he cares for his people, and people in general, as he is kinda the guardian of humanity. Here we can see why he is the King of Heroes and why he really is a great king of Uruk. |
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| No it doesn't, because this singularity never happened. |
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Vorpality said: No it doesn't, because this singularity never happened. Except that characters act the same way they would even in proper history |
ssjokg said: Vorpality said: No it doesn't, because this singularity never happened. Except that characters act the same way they would even in proper history That's where Grand Order gets sketchy. Maybe he would have acted differently, maybe he wouldn't have. This is one of the only timeline in the Nasuverse where Gil isn't a complete asshole, so it's possible he just was just younger and more innocent before the fuckery that did canonically happen, buuuuuuut, it's also totally possible he'd still be the pompous child murdering asshole we know and love/hate. |
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Vorpality said: That's where Grand Order gets sketchy. Maybe he would have acted differently, maybe he wouldn't have. This is one of the only timeline in the Nasuverse where Gil isn't a complete asshole, so it's possible he just was just younger and more innocent before the fuckery that did canonically happen, buuuuuuut, it's also totally possible he'd still be the pompous child murdering asshole we know and love/hate. Timelines dont get fucked over since day 1. All timelines are the same up till the grail from the Mage King appears and causes all sort of trouble. Gil was as we see in Babylonia even before demonic beasts and the 3 Goddesses tried to kill his people. He has no reason to go from arrogant to kind,people loving king just because a catastrophe is coming. And what do you mean younger and innocent?? This Gil is older than his Archer version. |
| >This series kinda proves Gilgamesh right Counter point: Like Gil, he's a servant given a 2nd life. But where Gil concluded that modern world is shit, he walked the earth and came to the opposite conclusion. In fact, during the even Gil himself end up acknowledging that his view point in Fate wasn't entirely correct. Here's the real (meta) explanation: Nasu haven't really thought much about the characterization of Gil during FSN. It's only with Urobuchi's FZ and later on in CCC that Nasu decides to actually develop Gil has a more nuanced character that has some semblance of a depth. Yeah, Babylonia does affirm that Uruk was indeed a strong nation with citizens that all have value, but at the same time, FSN Gil's actions and attitude weren't seen as 'right' either. |
LeloTheUnamused said: Just a note, people weren't calling him a tyrant. That was Merlin. And he was lying because he's a troll, he knew from the beginning that he was just scaring Ritsuka and that Gilgamesh isn't the irrational tyrant anymore. Also yes, this series shows how people in Uruk are great, they are strong willed but kind people, and it makes you see why Gilgamesh hates the modern era and modern humans. Doesn't justify trying to murder them all tho, and that is still an exaggeration of his character that he wouldn't normally do: he decides to do it in stay night because he's incarnated and that makes him more angry and violent. You see that, normally summoned as a Servant like in Zero, he still hates the modern era but he wouldn't actually plan for a genocide. In Extra CCC he's even more chill, like a mix between his Zero version and his Babylonia version. There are layers of reasons behind his actions (in every series but specifically in stay night, in every route, not only UBW), while he thinks that most moder humans are a waste, he finds the world a bit amusing. He's not a psychopath that immediately decides to kill everyone just because they aren't like in his times. He didn't even want to "win" the war at first in Zero, just prevent the other from winning. And those were all thoughs of his youth. Here in Babylonia, his ideals aren't the same. He's still arrogant, but he cares for his people, and people in general, as he is kinda the guardian of humanity. Here we can see why he is the King of Heroes and why he really is a great king of Uruk. Gilgamesh role in FSN must be the most controversial thing after ''the timeline order'' this is all because of artoria retarded opinion about her thinking that gil cannot be mad in FSN despite her LITERALLY never witnessing what the grail mud does to servants before becoming an alter combine that stupid opinion with gil statement about his behavior changing based on the era he is summoned to and you got a bunch of retards who believe in this nonsense problems: you may include caster gil to that as well since they are the same person. it was confirmed in strange fake that angra mudded his spiritron it was confirmed in the Ex series that ''gil's ego'' is not consistent. in CCC, he resists being deleted by the far side. but in Extella, he gets affected by it. being corrupted doesn't necessarily make you an alter. he was summoned in the ex universe where life is pretty much worse than mainline yet he's chill about it (hakunon, anyone) so yeah a lot of contradictions and more evidence to suggest that he was indeed corrupted |
Lel0uchZer0 said: Nilvius said: >This series kinda proves Gilgamesh right Counter point: Like Gil, he's a servant given a 2nd life. But where Gil concluded that modern world is shit, he walked the earth and came to the opposite conclusion. In fact, during the even Gil himself end up acknowledging that his view point in Fate wasn't entirely correct. Here's the real (meta) explanation: Nasu haven't really thought much about the characterization of Gil during FSN. It's only with Urobuchi's FZ and later on in CCC that Nasu decides to actually develop Gil has a more nuanced character that has some semblance of a depth. Yeah, Babylonia does affirm that Uruk was indeed a strong nation with citizens that all have value, but at the same time, FSN Gil's actions and attitude weren't seen as 'right' either. I did not say he was 100% right as a fact. I just said he is KINDA right. I mean in UBW almost everyone considered him a maniac with no point. Yes gil obviously acknowledged that he was too harsh but that does not mean he think he was necesarilly wrong . I think ubw did a very very poor job of actually showcasig his ideals (tho personally as a fan of his i spent more time exploring his character and seeing what he actually means but the anime still did a bad job in general) This series is perfect for that reason. Gives us the other side of the story in a way abd shows us that gil wasn't clueless at all dude can see the future. ask him what notes are and you got pretty much his motives. no need for grand order stuff |
| Oh God, please don't restart the whole "Gilgamesh is corrupted" argument. Please, I've been hearing it for ages. First of all, we have proof and official confirmations. This was NEVER an argument, it's just people who keep going back at it because they want to be right about their own vision of Gilgamesh or something, I don't know and I don't care. I read Strange Fake and I don't remember any mention nor confirmation of him being corrupted Being deleted in the Moon Cell equals being corrupted by all the evils of the world and being turned into a crazed Alter version since... when? "Being corrupted" when talking about Gilgamesh and the grail mud refers to being turned into an Alter. Let's not argue semantics here, that is and always will be the argument. "Quality of life" and "state of humanity" are different things, you're confused about thta. Heck, Gilgamesh himself explains all of this in CCC, about how he would turn into his stay night version, how being incarnated makes his human side "resonate" more with the era, etc. The Moon Cell is separated, he's not influenced by humanity in there, and that's why he's more chill. Again, this is all official stuff, in official titles, stated by Gilgamesh himself dear God please please please let's end this damn argument once and for all, I've seen it over and over again across the internet these past weeks. Just stop |
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| You know what makes all this shit pointless? WORD OF GOD Doesnt matter what you think if Nasu thinks otherwise. |
LeloTheUnamused said: Oh God, please don't restart the whole "Gilgamesh is corrupted" argument. Please, I've been hearing it for ages. First of all, we have proof and official confirmations. This was NEVER an argument, it's just people who keep going back at it because they want to be right about their own vision of Gilgamesh or something, I don't know and I don't care. I read Strange Fake and I don't remember any mention nor confirmation of him being corrupted Being deleted in the Moon Cell equals being corrupted by all the evils of the world and being turned into a crazed Alter version since... when? "Being corrupted" when talking about Gilgamesh and the grail mud refers to being turned into an Alter. Let's not argue semantics here, that is and always will be the argument. "Quality of life" and "state of humanity" are different things, you're confused about thta. Heck, Gilgamesh himself explains all of this in CCC, about how he would turn into his stay night version, how being incarnated makes his human side "resonate" more with the era, etc. The Moon Cell is separated, he's not influenced by humanity in there, and that's why he's more chill. Again, this is all official stuff, in official titles, stated by Gilgamesh himself dear God please please please let's end this damn argument once and for all, I've seen it over and over again across the internet these past weeks. Just stop I would ''hardly'' call a statement about behavior adjustment based on an era and someone's opinion a ''proving confirmation'' as dismissal for an overwhelming contradicting evidences as ''never an argument''. I read Strange Fake and I don't remember any mention nor confirmation of him being Nice way of twisting stuff, you know exactly that the ''mudd'' in his attempt to see the events in the 4th HGW is a reference and a hard core evidence to his spirit core being meddled by angra but live in denial, I guess Being deleted in the Moon Cell equals being corrupted by all the evils of the world doesn't refute that he was affected by it in Extella while not in CCC. < this is indeed a hard core evidence that Gilgamesh can be affected by angra whilst simultaneously proving that his ''ego'' (which what resists angra) is not consistent and being turned into a crazed Alter version since... when? ''corrupts the soul'', see that? he resisted that in CCC through his *ego*. but not in extella. what does this tell us? easy. gilgamesh is indeed corruptable "Being corrupted" when talking about Gilgamesh and the grail mud refers to being turned into an Alter. considering that ''uncorrupted grails now make people alters'' and ''angra corrupting souls'' in the far side of the mooncell does not alter you, then that would be a hard no. meddling spirit origins is the new definition Let's not argue semantics here, that is and always will be the argument. this is not 2004/5 anymore. Oji san Just stop No U. "Quality of life" and "state of humanity" are different things, you're confused about thta. Heck, Gilgamesh himself explains all of this in CCC, about how he would turn into his stay night version, how being incarnated makes his human side "resonate" more with the era, etc. I can assure you that the only thing confusing me here is your confusion about me being confused the statement about him *probably* dealing with moderan era if he were to be alive is nothing new, it's already in strange fake as well; him thinking the modern era is henious and overpopulated not a ''justification'' for someone suddenly wantin to summon a humanity ending death god as a suicidal wish (specifically related to the one that meddled him) when said person says he may destroy a town but doesn't out of the excuse of not being human despite him being able to become if he wants in strange fake The Moon Cell is separated, he's not influenced by humanity in there, and that's why he's more chill. technically it's seraph that's separated but you know what I mean;seraph provides the servants with all the knowledge they need and considering extra world is worse than FSN, X for doubt then, OP. they left seraph at the end of CCC. Again, this is all official stuff, in official titles, . and so are my points, why yours would be any different? stated by Gilgamesh himself dear God please please please let's end this damn argument once and for all, I've seen it over and over again across the internet these past weeks let's recheck your points versus mine Yours: -Gilgamesh stated that he may cule the population if he were to incarnate (strange fake) -Gilgamesh being stated to adjust his behavior based on the era he is summoned to (ccc/strange fake) -artoria's opinion about gilgamesh not becoming mad mine: -his spirit core getting meddled by angra and his FSF self being the same as the FSN one (narita stated it, don't you dare deny it) -his ego is not consistent and has shown to be affected by angra (Ex series) -being corrupted does not necessarily make you an alter as all it does is corrupts your soul whilst the alteration process being something that can be achievd through just normal grails with a lot of magical energy (grand order/ ex series) dunno chief, mine seems more believable since they have less contradictions. gonna take the occam razor route |
LelouchwakamsNov 17, 2019 7:09 PM
| Gilgamesh was a tyrant who destroyed his kingdom and was abandoned by his subjects. He matured, changed and had to rebuild it. The only person who tolerated and waited for him was Siduri, everyone else left. Gilgamesh in FZ and FSN, as Archer, is indeed an immature tyrant who destroyed his country and was abandoned by the survivors. Every single of the path of rulership has negative and positives sides. UBW didn't do him dirty as much as showing the extreme side of Gilgamesh's kingship path which is tyranny indeed. Even Caster Gilgamesh admits it, he just changed to see the people as a wealth he has to keep safe. IMO, Camelot Singularity, regardless of the circumstances of how Arturia becomes like this, shows the dark side of Arturia's kingship |
ThessNov 17, 2019 4:45 PM
Thess said: Gilgamesh was a tyrant who destroyed his kingdom and was abandoned by his subjects. He matured, changed and had to rebuild it. The only person who tolerated and waited for him was Siduri, everyone else left. Gilgamesh in FZ and FSN, as Archer, is indeed an immature tyrant who destroyed his country and was abandoned by the survivors. Every single of the path of rulership has negative and positives sides. UBW didn't do him dirty as much as showing the extreme side of Gilgamesh's kingship path which is tyranny indeed. Even Caster Gilgamesh admits it, he just changed to see the people as a wealth he has to keep safe. IMO, Camelot Singularity, regardless of the circumstances of how Arturia becomes like this, shows the dark side of Arturia's kingship the guy in F/Z and FSN is the same guy from babylonia, have you not played grand order yet? |
Lelouchwakams said: the guy in F/Z and FSN is the same guy from babylonia, have you not played grand order yet? He's not, though. Did you? The guy from F/Z and FSN is the same guy Merlin described as a warning, the same guy Roman looks down as a ruler (this was cut from the anime). That's like saying Kid Gil is the same as F/Z and FSN Gilgamesh. Nilvius said: >This series kinda proves Gilgamesh right Counter point: Like Gil, he's a servant given a 2nd life. But where Gil concluded that modern world is shit, he walked the earth and came to the opposite conclusion. In fact, during the even Gil himself end up acknowledging that his view point in Fate wasn't entirely correct. Here's the real (meta) explanation: Nasu haven't really thought much about the characterization of Gil during FSN. It's only with Urobuchi's FZ and later on in CCC that Nasu decides to actually develop Gil has a more nuanced character that has some semblance of a depth. Yeah, Babylonia does affirm that Uruk was indeed a strong nation with citizens that all have value, but at the same time, FSN Gil's actions and attitude weren't seen as 'right' either. Yeah. |
ThessNov 17, 2019 5:06 PM
Thess said: Lelouchwakams said: the guy in F/Z and FSN is the same guy from babylonia, have you not played grand order yet? He's not, though. Did you? The guy from F/Z and FSN is the same guy Merlin described as a warning, the same guy Roman looks down as a ruler (this was cut from the anime). That's like saying Kid Gil is the same as F/Z and FSN. indeed, lily versions are the same as their prime versions. |
LelouchwakamsNov 17, 2019 6:11 PM
Lelouchwakams said: Thess said: He's not, though. Did you? The guy from F/Z and FSN is the same guy Merlin described as a warning, the same guy Roman looks down as a ruler (this was cut from the anime). That's like saying Kid Gil is the same as F/Z and FSN. indeed, lily versions are the same as their prime versions. Servants have memories of their entire lives no matter when in their lives they are summoned but any memories they would have after the point in their lives they were summoned are more vague. Its more like they're told about the experience. That combined with their mindset still being the same as the age they were summoned at servants summoned at different points in their lives are very different. Gil in FSN and Zero hasn't gone on his humbling quest for immortality and is thus a massive dick. Its pretty clear that Kid Gil and Caster Gil have different attitudes Its been stated by the author that Gil wasn't corrupted by Angra. His experience in the modern world just made him despise it. |
Dai-Shouri said: Servants have memories of their entire lives no matter when in their lives they are summoned but any memories they would have after the point in their lives they were summoned are more vague. Its more like they're told about the experience. That combined with their mindset still being the same as the age they were summoned at servants summoned at different points in their lives are very different. Gil in FSN and Zero hasn't gone on his humbling quest for immortality and is thus a massive dick. Its pretty clear that Kid Gil and Caster Gil have different attitudes Its been stated by the author that Gil wasn't corrupted by Angra. His experience in the modern world just made him despise it. >says their entire lives >processed to contradict my guy, what. servants are summoned with all of their life memories intact. that's it, there is no if's about it. it's put on stone archer gil IS indeed the same gil who went for the quest. the memories, hello. he just has his arsenal that he had before donating it post-quest since he's an archer. ngl, I feel like i'm in a zero secondaries' thread Nasu statement about sakura eating goldie because he's resistent is not an ''author said'' my dude. |
Lelouchwakams said: Dai-Shouri said: Servants have memories of their entire lives no matter when in their lives they are summoned but any memories they would have after the point in their lives they were summoned are more vague. Its more like they're told about the experience. That combined with their mindset still being the same as the age they were summoned at servants summoned at different points in their lives are very different. Gil in FSN and Zero hasn't gone on his humbling quest for immortality and is thus a massive dick. Its pretty clear that Kid Gil and Caster Gil have different attitudes Its been stated by the author that Gil wasn't corrupted by Angra. His experience in the modern world just made him despise it. >says their entire lives >processed to contradict my guy, what. servants are summoned with all of their life memories intact. that's it, there is no if's about it. it's put on stone archer gil IS indeed the same gil who went for the quest. the memories, hello. he just has his arsenal that he had before donating it post-quest since he's an archer. ngl, I feel like i'm in a zero secondaries' thread Kinda shooting yourself in the foot by crying secondaries, what I just said is a pretty well established fact about servants. If it wasn't then why is Kid Gil not a monster. You're weirdly desperate to defend the point that Gil wasn't corrupted. |
Dai-Shouri said: Lelouchwakams said: >says their entire lives >processed to contradict my guy, what. servants are summoned with all of their life memories intact. that's it, there is no if's about it. it's put on stone archer gil IS indeed the same gil who went for the quest. the memories, hello. he just has his arsenal that he had before donating it post-quest since he's an archer. ngl, I feel like i'm in a zero secondaries' thread Kinda shooting yourself in the foot by crying secondaries, what I just said is a pretty well established fact about servants. If it wasn't then why is Kid Gil not a monster. You're weirdly desperate to defend the point that Gil wasn't corrupted. > calls me desperate > tries to mix two unrelated topics so he can find a way to grap for straws. remember kiddos, when you're losing an argument in the internet, just call them desperate instead of accepting being corrected because that's much better what the facts say: ''age won't alter your memories'' > what opinions say: why is kid gil not a monster then. I don't even understand what is that question suppose to mean fun fact my secondary dude: goldie already was being corrupted in the mooncell verse. |
LelouchwakamsNov 17, 2019 7:17 PM
Lelouchwakams said: Dai-Shouri said: Kinda shooting yourself in the foot by crying secondaries, what I just said is a pretty well established fact about servants. If it wasn't then why is Kid Gil not a monster. You're weirdly desperate to defend the point that Gil wasn't corrupted. > calls me desperate > tries to mix two unrelated topics so he can find a way to grap for straws. facts: ''age won't alter your memories'' > opinion: then why is kid gil not a monster it's called why would he be a monster. fun fact my secondary dude: goldie already was being corrupted in the mooncell verse. They are indeed related understanding why Gil is an ass in stay night is important to proving that he wasn't corrupted. I'm legitimately not sure what kind of point you're trying to make with that second thing. Kid Gil not being a monster is indeed a fact. He's not a perfect citizen but he's a hell of a lot better then the alternative. He is because despite having his memories he has his previous mindset. Just like Archer Gil having the memories of Gilgamesh's entire life is still an ass. Again not sure how this helps you at all but its usually called the extraverse for future reference. |
Lelouchwakams said: Thess said: He's not, though. Did you? The guy from F/Z and FSN is the same guy Merlin described as a warning, the same guy Roman looks down as a ruler (this was cut from the anime). That's like saying Kid Gil is the same as F/Z and FSN. indeed, lily versions are the same as their prime versions. No, they aren't. Having memories of an event doesn't make them the same person. Because they haven't reached that emotional mature personality. It's like being aware of events doesn't mean you lived through them. Think about those memories as someone watching a video of a future event, they don't affect how they are presently. The personality of the Servant matches the emotional maturity and disposition of the era they got materialized, regardless of the memories. That's how it works. They have different tastes too (please I invite you to read Fate/Hollow Ataraxia where Kid Gil dismisses Saber as an attractive girl because isn't his taste, his adult Self would like her, but he prefers a delicate flower to protect - also reinforced in CCC). The King of Heroes of Uruk. Mankind's oldest hero. His nature is cruel and heartless. Never hearing people's opinions, a tyrant who holds only his own standards as absolute-- such disposition is not applicable to him in this form. Fundamentally, a polite and modest boy. Kid Gil's profile. Mankind’s oldest King of Heroes, Gilgamesh himself. Differently from when he is an Archer, his way of being in this form is not of a hero that personifies raging power, but that of a wise king that governs the masses. Caster Gil's profile. It's not just his power, but his personality. His Archer Gilgamesh profile is described as "Cruel and heartless. Never hearing people's opinion, a tyrant who holds only his own standards as absolute" while Caster Gilgamesh (who is the Gilgamesh alive in Babylonia) is described in his profile as "the wise king who returned from the journey to achieve immortality." You're out of your mind they have the same personality and disposition. Plus Nasu calls him a new Gilgamesh: Nasu: October and November of 2015 might have been the busiest months of my entire life, but I was feeling confident enough to say that “I’m still really young! I can do this!” The one thing I was worried about before getting to work was whether I could write Gilgamesh’s character in Chapter 7 well. 4Gamer: You mean, as part of the game’s themes? Nasu: More like in terms of his appeal as a character. When I wrote Fate/Extra CCC, I felt like I had already exhausted everything there is to write about Gil as an ally. I was slightly worried about being able to surpass that. After thinking hard, I finally settled on “Gilgamesh after his search for immortality,” and a new side of him was born. I even surprised myself with the result. Just changing the very premise of his character led me to creating an entirely new image of him. Nasu calls him a new. Their official profiles describe Archer Gilgamesh as a cruel tyrant while Caster Gilgamesh as a wise king. I'm not certain why are you insisting to argue with their official description and against Nasu. But ok. Gil wasn't corrupted either, he was just a nice kid who turned into a huge bg as a teenager and college fratboy and then straightened his ways when he became an adult and started to take his daily job seriously. Archer one takes him in the asshole hormonal party days, even if he's aware of the future, he's not his more mature and overworked self. Him becoming better when he finally grows up, doesn't mean his attitude as Archer wasn't tyrannical and cruel. |
ThessNov 17, 2019 8:17 PM
Lelouchwakams said: that doesn't explain why lily medea follows jason even though f/sn medea would've incinerated him in a heartbeat. Thess said: He's not, though. Did you? The guy from F/Z and FSN is the same guy Merlin described as a warning, the same guy Roman looks down as a ruler (this was cut from the anime). That's like saying Kid Gil is the same as F/Z and FSN. indeed, lily versions are the same as their prime versions. okeanos by itself shows that a younger version isn't going to act the same as the older version even with access to the same memories since the younger version doesn't have as vivid memories. it's like remembering the actual experience of your life to a certain point and then reading a book about what you did for the rest of that life. if they did have the same access, kid gil would act arrogantly and young medea would be more assertive Lel0uchZer0 said: nasu is the guy who writes and owns fate, and he's written every form of gil that's been in an anime so farssjokg said: You know what makes all this shit pointless? WORD OF GOD Doesnt matter what you think if Nasu thinks otherwise. Who is nasu? Really need info on that |
Aure0linNov 17, 2019 10:24 PM
| "I like young-girl sexual creations, Lolicon is just one hobby of my many hobbies," he says. I ask what his wife, standing nearby, thinks of his "hobby". "She probably thinks no problem," he replies. "Because she loves young boys sexually interacting with each other." |
Aure0lin said: that doesn't explain why lily medea follows jason even though f/sn medea would've incinerated him in a heartbeat. okeanos by itself shows that a younger version isn't going to act the same as the older version even with access to the same memories since the younger version doesn't have as vivid memories. it's like remembering the actual experience of your life to a certain point and then reading a book about what you did for the rest of that life. if they did have the same access, kid gil would act arrogantly and young medea would be more assertive nasu is the guy who writes and owns fate, and he's written every form of gil that's been in an anime so far she pretty much did worse, so not sure what you're getting at, did you miss the ''i'm melting part'' and her saying he has no brain and the other creepy ''but I didn't say how I would protect you''? she was pretty much exploiting the fact that he thought she didn't remember what he did and his own stupidity for falling for it. context is important Thess said: No, they aren't. Having memories of an event doesn't make them the same person. Because they haven't reached that emotional mature personality. It's like being aware of events doesn't mean you lived through them. Think about those memories as someone watching a video of a future event, they don't affect how they are presently. The personality of the Servant matches the emotional maturity and disposition of the era they got materialized, regardless of the memories. That's how it works. They have different tastes too (please I invite you to read Fate/Hollow Ataraxia where Kid Gil dismisses Saber as an attractive girl because isn't his taste, his adult Self would like her, but he prefers a delicate flower to protect - also reinforced in CCC). The King of Heroes of Uruk. Mankind's oldest hero. His nature is cruel and heartless. Never hearing people's opinions, a tyrant who holds only his own standards as absolute-- such disposition is not applicable to him in this form. Fundamentally, a polite and modest boy. Kid Gil's profile. Mankind’s oldest King of Heroes, Gilgamesh himself. Differently from when he is an Archer, his way of being in this form is not of a hero that personifies raging power, but that of a wise king that governs the masses. Caster Gil's profile. It's not just his power, but his personality. His Archer Gilgamesh profile is described as "Cruel and heartless. Never hearing people's opinion, a tyrant who holds only his own standards as absolute" while Caster Gilgamesh (who is the Gilgamesh alive in Babylonia) is described in his profile as "the wise king who returned from the journey to achieve immortality." You're out of your mind they have the same personality and disposition. Plus Nasu calls him a new Gilgamesh: Nasu: October and November of 2015 might have been the busiest months of my entire life, but I was feeling confident enough to say that “I’m still really young! I can do this!” The one thing I was worried about before getting to work was whether I could write Gilgamesh’s character in Chapter 7 well. 4Gamer: You mean, as part of the game’s themes? Nasu: More like in terms of his appeal as a character. When I wrote Fate/Extra CCC, I felt like I had already exhausted everything there is to write about Gil as an ally. I was slightly worried about being able to surpass that. After thinking hard, I finally settled on “Gilgamesh after his search for immortality,” and a new side of him was born. I even surprised myself with the result. Just changing the very premise of his character led me to creating an entirely new image of him. Nasu calls him a new. Their official profiles describe Archer Gilgamesh as a cruel tyrant while Caster Gilgamesh as a wise king. I'm not certain why are you insisting to argue with their official description and against Nasu. But ok. Gil wasn't corrupted either, he was just a nice kid who turned into a huge bg as a teenager and college fratboy and then straightened his ways when he became an adult and started to take his daily job seriously. Archer one takes him in the asshole hormonal party days, even if he's aware of the future, he's not his more mature and overworked self. Him becoming better when he finally grows up, doesn't mean his attitude as Archer wasn't tyrannical and cruel. No, they aren't. Having memories of an event doesn't make them the same person. so me aging back makes me not me. got it Because they haven't reached that emotional mature personality. do you mean sexual developments or brain capacity? because neither really help your case. if you mean ''literal emotional maturity'' then I have bad news for you, those relay on experience and intelligence and guess where do those two come from: ''memory'' brain capacity is out since the subject is a servant, not biological. this leaves out sexual maturity, why would someone stop being themselve for not being sexually mature? that doesn't make sense doesn't make them different persons though and disposition of the era they got materialized, regardless of the memories. That's how it works wrong, the thing about changing according to era is a GILGAMESH THING only. They have different tastes too (please I invite you to read Fate/Hollow Ataraxia where Kid Gil dismisses Saber as an attractive girl because isn't his taste, his adult Self would like her, but he prefers a delicate flower to protect - also reinforced in CCC). frankly, I recommend you play CCC properly. what does Goldie like about hakunon? simple, her struggling < stated by the man himself. sounds similar...hmm, almost like other hero of knights if you are still referring to the sexual development thing then what gives Caster Gil's profile. It's not just his power, but his personality. His Archer Gilgamesh profile is described as "Cruel and heartless. Never hearing people's opinion, a tyrant who holds only his own standards as absolute" while Caster Gilgamesh (who is the Gilgamesh alive in Babylonia) is described in his profile as "the wise king who returned from the journey to achieve immortality." You're out of your mind they have the same personality and disposition. dude, how is this retarded misconception still going on? caster gil is not from babylonia singularity. he's a natural development stage that happens post quest. I'm 99% sure now that you have not played CCC. that happens naturally in his own era. Plus Nasu calls him a new Gilgamesh: yes, because caster gil was not a part of the franchise yet at that point, sherlock. Nasu calls him a new. Their official profiles describe Archer Gilgamesh as a cruel tyrant while Caster Gilgamesh as a wise king. I'm not certain why are you insisting to argue with their official description and against Nasu. But ok. >twist nasu words ignorantly >accuse me of arguing against it. dude, the only thing i'm arguing against here are your misconceptions, caster gil is not a result of babylonia singularity. that happens naturally in his world. done, case closed. dude, if you think class descriptions of the version of a servant they summoned is why they are not the same person then by that logic caster cu is a different person than lancer cu. that's not how it works, they are describing the lore behind that stage. if you think the opposite way, then this will go down as a meme across the moonrunners gil wasn't corrupted read strange fake my dude and play extella (and while you're at it, play CCC properly [if you did that is] make sure you finish it), clearly you lack the knowledge to make that statement. he was just a nice kid who turned into a huge bg as a teenager and college fratboy and then straightened his ways when he became an adult and started to take his daily job seriously. Archer one takes him in the asshole hormonal party days, even if he's aware of the future, he's not his more mature and overworked self. Him becoming better when he finally grows up, doesn't mean his attitude as Archer wasn't tyrannical and cruel. that's not how summoning works my dude, you don't become a different person just because you got summined in a different class. what classes do is only summon versions of you that fits their attributes. that's it, anything beyond this is a headcanon. I recommend you actually know what're you talking about before you spout this kind of stuff. |
LelouchwakamsNov 18, 2019 2:21 AM
Dai-Shouri said: Lelouchwakams said: > calls me desperate > tries to mix two unrelated topics so he can find a way to grap for straws. facts: ''age won't alter your memories'' > opinion: then why is kid gil not a monster it's called why would he be a monster. fun fact my secondary dude: goldie already was being corrupted in the mooncell verse. They are indeed related understanding why Gil is an ass in stay night is important to proving that he wasn't corrupted. I'm legitimately not sure what kind of point you're trying to make with that second thing. Kid Gil not being a monster is indeed a fact. He's not a perfect citizen but he's a hell of a lot better then the alternative. He is because despite having his memories he has his previous mindset. Just like Archer Gil having the memories of Gilgamesh's entire life is still an ass. Again not sure how this helps you at all but its usually called the extraverse for future reference. at least you are a person that realise that archer gil has his entire life memories. not to dish on someone or anything but the previous convo was concerning to say the least. the reason why kid gil is not a monster is the same reason strange fake gil is not a monster despite being the same gil from FSN and zero I prefer the way nasu calls it (ex series) instead of the way mainstream do. but thanks anyway |
| There were never doubts that Archer Gil has his entire life memories and nobody ever said something against that. It's just that memories are not enough to completely overturn his personality if summoned with his young, arrogant mindset. And this has nothing to do with the original point of being corrupted or not, the discussion is just derailing after already being derailed. |
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LeloTheUnamused said: There were never doubts that Archer Gil has his entire life memories and nobody ever said something against that. It's just that memories are not enough to completely overturn his personality if summoned with his young, arrogant mindset. And this has nothing to do with the original point of being corrupted or not, the discussion is just derailing after already being derailed. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Archer Gilgamesh is a cruel and heartless tyrant. This is his official description. Caster Gilgamesh and child Gilgamesh aren't. This is again official. It doesn't matter if they have memories or not (they do), the mindset and personality displayed are distinctive because they are summoned to be like that age period. Servants aren't people, they are manifested records. That Gilgamesh eventually became a mature and wise monarch doesn't mean he was "right" in FZ or FSN where he manifested on his worst and tyrannical days which drove his kingdom to ruin: he basically destroyed the place and the only subject who didn't abandon him was Siduri. After he returned a changed man, he and Siduri rebuilt it. Archer Gilgamesh kinda embodies the worst side of his way of kingship. I'm astonished anyone who wants to justify Archer Gilgamesh or even pretended he was 'right'. He was the villain in Fuyuki 4th and 5th War. You can argue he was a charismatic villain, but he was an antagonist whose viewpoints were proven wrong. Babylonia itself exists to prove his FSN self wrong: Uruk would have fallen and be crushed without modern humanity intervention. And it was modern humanity that carried out the operation to restore the human order. |
ThessNov 18, 2019 4:41 AM
Thess said: LeloTheUnamused said: There were never doubts that Archer Gil has his entire life memories and nobody ever said something against that. It's just that memories are not enough to completely overturn his personality if summoned with his young, arrogant mindset. And this has nothing to do with the original point of being corrupted or not, the discussion is just derailing after already being derailed. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Archer Gilgamesh is a cruel and heartless tyrant. This is his official description. Caster Gilgamesh and child Gilgamesh aren't. This is again official. It doesn't matter if they have memories or not (they do), the mindset and personality displayed are distinctive because they are summoned to be like that age period. Servants aren't people, they are manifested records. That Gilgamesh eventually became a mature and wise monarch doesn't mean he was "right" in FZ or FSN where he manifested on his worst and tyrannical days which drove his kingdom to ruin: he basically destroyed the place and the only subject who didn't abandon him was Siduri. After he returned a changed man, he and Siduri rebuilt it. Archer Gilgamesh kinda embodies the worst side of his way of kingship. I'm astonished anyone who wants to justify Archer Gilgamesh or even pretended he was 'right'. He was the villain in Fuyuki 4th and 5th War. You can argue he was a charismatic villain, but he was an antagonist whose viewpoints were proven wrong. Babylonia itself exists to prove his FSN self wrong: Uruk would have fallen and be crushed without modern humanity intervention. And it was modern humanity that carried out the operation to restore the human order. Exactly. I agree on all fronts. What I don't get it's trying to either find ways to semi-justify him or force your headcanon on why he is in certain ways and say that the official explanations are wrong. I mean... you can like a character even if they do terrible things. It's a character, liking them means accepting thay they do certain things and may have an antagonistic role. Gilgamesh is not my all times favourite Fate character, but I like him a lot, and more sides of him make me like him even more. He's cool as an antagonist, but seeing him as the hero and wise king he actually is complete him as a character. We can see what he really is like, what he's used to see and do, and what it takes to anger him and turn him into an "extremist" that wants to do what we see in FSN. I can't and I don't want to ignore his asshol-ish (and straight up evil) parts because they have context and we have multiple entries in the franchise that contextualize all of that. I'm really baffled by most of this thread, really. ---- And some of the arguments are... I really don't know, spinning in circles of misunderstanding and raising dust to confuse the argument just to prove a personal misconception as true. Like, regarding some absurd claims made in this thread (sorry if I address them while replying now to you, but I don't have much time and I want to avoid double posting): First of all, regarding Strange Fake. Saying that Gilgamesh being unable to see the 4th war due to the mud means that he's been corrupted is a leap of logic and not at all an objection to the fact that this doesn't prove anything. Especially if we look at the source itself and The King of Heroes stared confidently into empty space and endeavored to observe himself on a different phase, but... “Hm? ...’Splash’...? This can’t be right... Fishing...? No...” He appeared briefly troubled, then mystified. “How odd. As soon as I turn my gaze to the phases around when I was summoned to this ‘Fuyuki,’ the ‘mud’ I saw today clouds my eyes.” He seemed, however, not to particularly mind. After a sip of wine, he shrugged his shoulders. “Well, no matter. If this ‘Grail’ is genuine, I shall use the magical energy it contains to wash the ‘mud’ away. In exchange, I shall tell you the tale of how I built the walls of Uruk in full!” Not only it doesn't prove that he's permanently corrupted in FSN, it also straight up references the fishing scene in Hollow Ataraxia. And Gil in HA is the same incarnated Gil in FSN, so if he wasn't unable to see himself in the 4th war due to "being corrupted", he wouldn't be able to see himself in HA either. But he can. Because the whole point of "he can't see the 4th so it's proof he's corrupted" is wrong. And on the matter of Strange Fake, let's not forget that, after saying the same thing in CCC, he states again here that “Do not concern yourself. I would hardly go out of my way to clean up refuse.” Gilgamesh sounded bored as he surveyed the city. “Although if I were to incarnate and truly savor life’s pleasures, it would be another story. When that time comes I may consider culling the mongrels unworthy of life, but that has nothing to do with me now. If the mongrels choose a slow ruin, I shall simply watch their foolish end with a laugh.” (I'm tagging @Lel0uchZer0 here since this ^ quote may just be what he was looking for) Bringing out Strange Fake as proof and ignoring that it directly contradicts that "proof"? That's the true denial imho Also, on the matter of Gilgamesh in Extra, since no real point was made and it was all short throwaway sentences, I think a single sentence stating a simple fact is enough as a response: Far Side of the Moon ≠ Corruption by Angra Mainyu (again, sorry for posting all of this stuff into one single reply) ---- But yeah I mean, this whole thread is getting ridiculous at this point. |
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Lelouchwakams said: yes she betrayed him because she was always going to do that eventually, but you seem to be ignoring what the entire rest of the story had and focused on what happened at the end. f/sn medea would've never even pretended to serve jasonAure0lin said: that doesn't explain why lily medea follows jason even though f/sn medea would've incinerated him in a heartbeat. okeanos by itself shows that a younger version isn't going to act the same as the older version even with access to the same memories since the younger version doesn't have as vivid memories. it's like remembering the actual experience of your life to a certain point and then reading a book about what you did for the rest of that life. if they did have the same access, kid gil would act arrogantly and young medea would be more assertive nasu is the guy who writes and owns fate, and he's written every form of gil that's been in an anime so far she pretty much did worse, so not sure what you're getting at, did you miss the ''i'm melting part'' and her saying he has no brain and the other creepy ''but I didn't say how I would protect you''? she was pretty much exploiting the fact that he thought she didn't remember what he did and his own stupidity for falling for it. context is important |
| "I like young-girl sexual creations, Lolicon is just one hobby of my many hobbies," he says. I ask what his wife, standing nearby, thinks of his "hobby". "She probably thinks no problem," he replies. "Because she loves young boys sexually interacting with each other." |
| imagine calling people secondaries while simultaneously claiming Gilgamesh was corrupted by the grail, a (wrong) belief popular among actual Zero secondaries |
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| OP, we know how much of a man crush you have on goldy, but come on. |
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Aure0lin said: Lelouchwakams said: yes she betrayed him because she was always going to do that eventually, but you seem to be ignoring what the entire rest of the story had and focused on what happened at the end. f/sn medea would've never even pretended to serve jasonshe pretty much did worse, so not sure what you're getting at, did you miss the ''i'm melting part'' and her saying he has no brain and the other creepy ''but I didn't say how I would protect you''? she was pretty much exploiting the fact that he thought she didn't remember what he did and his own stupidity for falling for it. context is important yeah, because she's obviously was gonna summon the demon god pillar from herself and disobey her reason for being summoned LeloTheUnamused said: There were never doubts that Archer Gil has his entire life memories and nobody ever said something against that. It's just that memories are not enough to completely overturn his personality if summoned with his young, arrogant mindset. big brain right there, ''mindset =/= memories''. please show your PHD in neroscience. nuff with the pseudo intellectualsm. it's getting cringy. unless there is an ''artificial alteration to the personality''. say like how gilgamesh alter his personality through the potion of youth then no.. Thess said: LeloTheUnamused said: There were never doubts that Archer Gil has his entire life memories and nobody ever said something against that. It's just that memories are not enough to completely overturn his personality if summoned with his young, arrogant mindset. And this has nothing to do with the original point of being corrupted or not, the discussion is just derailing after already being derailed. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Archer Gilgamesh is a cruel and heartless tyrant. This is his official description. Caster Gilgamesh and child Gilgamesh aren't. This is again official. It doesn't matter if they have memories or not (they do), the mindset and personality displayed are distinctive because they are summoned to be like that age period. Servants aren't people, they are manifested records. That Gilgamesh eventually became a mature and wise monarch doesn't mean he was "right" in FZ or FSN where he manifested on his worst and tyrannical days which drove his kingdom to ruin: he basically destroyed the place and the only subject who didn't abandon him was Siduri. After he returned a changed man, he and Siduri rebuilt it. Archer Gilgamesh kinda embodies the worst side of his way of kingship. I'm astonished anyone who wants to justify Archer Gilgamesh or even pretended he was 'right'. He was the villain in Fuyuki 4th and 5th War. You can argue he was a charismatic villain, but he was an antagonist whose viewpoints were proven wrong. Babylonia itself exists to prove his FSN self wrong: Uruk would have fallen and be crushed without modern humanity intervention. And it was modern humanity that carried out the operation to restore the human order. I see you have chose to duck responding back. oh well, it's always easy to run away than accept being corrected. and no, your logic is stupid OP. and I already explained why as you end up with the retardation of people thinking cu lancer and cu caster are two different persons LeloTheUnamused said: Thess said: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Archer Gilgamesh is a cruel and heartless tyrant. This is his official description. Caster Gilgamesh and child Gilgamesh aren't. This is again official. It doesn't matter if they have memories or not (they do), the mindset and personality displayed are distinctive because they are summoned to be like that age period. Servants aren't people, they are manifested records. That Gilgamesh eventually became a mature and wise monarch doesn't mean he was "right" in FZ or FSN where he manifested on his worst and tyrannical days which drove his kingdom to ruin: he basically destroyed the place and the only subject who didn't abandon him was Siduri. After he returned a changed man, he and Siduri rebuilt it. Archer Gilgamesh kinda embodies the worst side of his way of kingship. I'm astonished anyone who wants to justify Archer Gilgamesh or even pretended he was 'right'. He was the villain in Fuyuki 4th and 5th War. You can argue he was a charismatic villain, but he was an antagonist whose viewpoints were proven wrong. Babylonia itself exists to prove his FSN self wrong: Uruk would have fallen and be crushed without modern humanity intervention. And it was modern humanity that carried out the operation to restore the human order. Exactly. I agree on all fronts. What I don't get it's trying to either find ways to semi-justify him or force your headcanon on why he is in certain ways and say that the official explanations are wrong. I mean... you can like a character even if they do terrible things. It's a character, liking them means accepting thay they do certain things and may have an antagonistic role. Gilgamesh is not my all times favourite Fate character, but I like him a lot, and more sides of him make me like him even more. He's cool as an antagonist, but seeing him as the hero and wise king he actually is complete him as a character. We can see what he really is like, what he's used to see and do, and what it takes to anger him and turn him into an "extremist" that wants to do what we see in FSN. I can't and I don't want to ignore his asshol-ish (and straight up evil) parts because they have context and we have multiple entries in the franchise that contextualize all of that. I'm really baffled by most of this thread, really. ---- And some of the arguments are... I really don't know, spinning in circles of misunderstanding and raising dust to confuse the argument just to prove a personal misconception as true. Like, regarding some absurd claims made in this thread (sorry if I address them while replying now to you, but I don't have much time and I want to avoid double posting): First of all, regarding Strange Fake. Saying that Gilgamesh being unable to see the 4th war due to the mud means that he's been corrupted is a leap of logic and not at all an objection to the fact that this doesn't prove anything. Especially if we look at the source itself and The King of Heroes stared confidently into empty space and endeavored to observe himself on a different phase, but... “Hm? ...’Splash’...? This can’t be right... Fishing...? No...” He appeared briefly troubled, then mystified. “How odd. As soon as I turn my gaze to the phases around when I was summoned to this ‘Fuyuki,’ the ‘mud’ I saw today clouds my eyes.” He seemed, however, not to particularly mind. After a sip of wine, he shrugged his shoulders. “Well, no matter. If this ‘Grail’ is genuine, I shall use the magical energy it contains to wash the ‘mud’ away. In exchange, I shall tell you the tale of how I built the walls of Uruk in full!” Not only it doesn't prove that he's permanently corrupted in FSN, it also straight up references the fishing scene in Hollow Ataraxia. And Gil in HA is the same incarnated Gil in FSN, so if he wasn't unable to see himself in the 4th war due to "being corrupted", he wouldn't be able to see himself in HA either. But he can. Because the whole point of "he can't see the 4th so it's proof he's corrupted" is wrong. And on the matter of Strange Fake, let's not forget that, after saying the same thing in CCC, he states again here that “Do not concern yourself. I would hardly go out of my way to clean up refuse.” Gilgamesh sounded bored as he surveyed the city. “Although if I were to incarnate and truly savor life’s pleasures, it would be another story. When that time comes I may consider culling the mongrels unworthy of life, but that has nothing to do with me now. If the mongrels choose a slow ruin, I shall simply watch their foolish end with a laugh.” (I'm tagging @Lel0uchZer0 here since this ^ quote may just be what he was looking for) Bringing out Strange Fake as proof and ignoring that it directly contradicts that "proof"? That's the true denial imho Also, on the matter of Gilgamesh in Extra, since no real point was made and it was all short throwaway sentences, I think a single sentence stating a simple fact is enough as a response: Far Side of the Moon ≠ Corruption by Angra Mainyu (again, sorry for posting all of this stuff into one single reply) ---- But yeah I mean, this whole thread is getting ridiculous at this point. What I don't get it's trying to either find ways to semi-justify him or force your headcanon on why he is in certain ways and say that the official explanations are wrong. twisting my words is not gonna get you nowhere, trust me. I can see through it like a mirror I mean... you can like a character even if they do terrible things. It's a character, liking them means accepting thay they do certain things and may have an antagonistic role. Gilgamesh is not my all times favourite Fate character, but I like him a lot, and more sides of him make me like him even more. He's cool as an antagonist, but seeing him as the hero and wise king he actually is complete him as a character. We can see what he really is like, what he's used to see and do, and what it takes to anger him and turn him into an "extremist" that wants to do what we see in FSN. >accusing others of aplogising. kek (gilgamesh is a SHIT CHARACTER) I can't and I don't want to ignore his asshol-ish (and straight up evil) parts because they have context and we have multiple entries in the franchise that contextualize all of that. indeed, yet you ignore them for a retconned mindset I'm really baffled by most of this thread, really. same and probably more than you Saying that Gilgamesh being unable to see the 4th war due to the mud means that he's been corrupted is a leap of logic it's a leap of logic because? and not at all an objection to the fact that this doesn't prove anything. Especially if we look at the source itself and The King of Heroes stared confidently into empty space and endeavored to observe himself on a different phase, but... “Hm? ...’Splash’...? This can’t be right... Fishing...? No...” He appeared briefly troubled, then mystified. “How odd. As soon as I turn my gaze to the phases around when I was summoned to this ‘Fuyuki,’ the ‘mud’ I saw today clouds my eyes.” He seemed, however, not to particularly mind. After a sip of wine, he shrugged his shoulders. “Well, no matter. If this ‘Grail’ is genuine, I shall use the magical energy it contains to wash the ‘mud’ away. In exchange, I shall tell you the tale of how I built the walls of Uruk in full!” Not only it doesn't prove that he's permanently corrupted in FSN, kid gil thing happens in HA (post-war), not FSN but nice try. and did you miss this or something: ''I shall use the magical energy it contains to wash the ‘mud’ away'' he does indeed indicate that his spiritcore is still contaminated thus permanent. it also straight up references the fishing scene in Hollow Ataraxia. exactly, and you're mixing FSN with HA. And Gil in HA is the same incarnated Gil in FSN, A) ''different personalities' B) youth of potion pretty much altered his saint graph so no so if he wasn't unable to see himself in the 4th war due to "being corrupted", he wouldn't be able to see himself in HA either. he literally says he can't: As soon as I turn my gaze to the phases around when I was summoned to this ‘Fuyuki,’ the ‘mud’ I saw today clouds my eyes.” you blind or something? it just means his memories as a child in HA-like events are accessible, while those before that aren't. and my response to that is: and? we are talking about psycho adult gil FSN in here with his post-zero personality. not not a one where his personality was ALTERED by a POTION Because the whole point of "he can't see the 4th so it's proof he's corrupted" is wrong. >stuff I don't like are wrong. it is indeed officially established that angra contiminated goldie. there is nothing to debate about it. And on the matter of Strange Fake, let's not forget that, after saying the same thing in *I may*. that could only take you so far my friend. considering the dude can revive himself if he wants to. i'm gonna say no Bringing out Strange Fake as proof and ignoring that it directly contradicts that "proof"? That's the true denial imho >OMG gil said he MAY do it even though he doesn't this show that he is EVIL and contradict numerous other evidences is this a jester festival or something? Far Side of the Moon ≠ Corruption by Angra Mainyu considering the contamination happened due to angra. i'm gonna say a HARD NO. But yeah I mean, this whole thread is getting ridiculous at this point. you're right, the clinging to a retconned mindset that much is quite concerning and unhealthy. |
LelouchwakamsNov 18, 2019 8:30 PM
Lelouchwakams said: that might very well have been what she would've done at the start before jason pushed her over the edge just like in the original mythAure0lin said: yes she betrayed him because she was always going to do that eventually, but you seem to be ignoring what the entire rest of the story had and focused on what happened at the end. f/sn medea would've never even pretended to serve jason yeah, because she's obviously was gonna summon the demon god pillar from herself and disobey her reason for being summoned |
| "I like young-girl sexual creations, Lolicon is just one hobby of my many hobbies," he says. I ask what his wife, standing nearby, thinks of his "hobby". "She probably thinks no problem," he replies. "Because she loves young boys sexually interacting with each other." |
Lel0uchZer0 said: LeloTheUnamused said: Exactly. I agree on all fronts. What I don't get it's trying to either find ways to semi-justify him or force your headcanon on why he is in certain ways and say that the official explanations are wrong. I mean... you can like a character even if they do terrible things. It's a character, liking them means accepting thay they do certain things and may have an antagonistic role. Gilgamesh is not my all times favourite Fate character, but I like him a lot, and more sides of him make me like him even more. He's cool as an antagonist, but seeing him as the hero and wise king he actually is complete him as a character. We can see what he really is like, what he's used to see and do, and what it takes to anger him and turn him into an "extremist" that wants to do what we see in FSN. I can't and I don't want to ignore his asshol-ish (and straight up evil) parts because they have context and we have multiple entries in the franchise that contextualize all of that. I'm really baffled by most of this thread, really. ---- And some of the arguments are... I really don't know, spinning in circles of misunderstanding and raising dust to confuse the argument just to prove a personal misconception as true. Like, regarding some absurd claims made in this thread (sorry if I address them while replying now to you, but I don't have much time and I want to avoid double posting): First of all, regarding Strange Fake. Saying that Gilgamesh being unable to see the 4th war due to the mud means that he's been corrupted is a leap of logic and not at all an objection to the fact that this doesn't prove anything. Especially if we look at the source itself and Not only it doesn't prove that he's permanently corrupted in FSN, it also straight up references the fishing scene in Hollow Ataraxia. And Gil in HA is the same incarnated Gil in FSN, so if he wasn't unable to see himself in the 4th war due to "being corrupted", he wouldn't be able to see himself in HA either. But he can. Because the whole point of "he can't see the 4th so it's proof he's corrupted" is wrong. And on the matter of Strange Fake, let's not forget that, after saying the same thing in CCC, he states again here that (I'm tagging @Lel0uchZer0 here since this ^ quote may just be what he was looking for) Bringing out Strange Fake as proof and ignoring that it directly contradicts that "proof"? That's the true denial imho Also, on the matter of Gilgamesh in Extra, since no real point was made and it was all short throwaway sentences, I think a single sentence stating a simple fact is enough as a response: Far Side of the Moon ≠ Corruption by Angra Mainyu (again, sorry for posting all of this stuff into one single reply) ---- But yeah I mean, this whole thread is getting ridiculous at this point. Let's just ignore the tryhards lol This thread was so chill until yesterday when everyone with 200 hours of fate go started tryharding Thanks for quoting btw Really apreciate it >says wants more than 1 perspective >process to call anything other than 1 perspective a tryhard what a joke of an OP |
LelouchwakamsNov 18, 2019 8:58 PM
Trojan_Invasion said: imagine calling people secondaries while simultaneously claiming Gilgamesh was corrupted by the grail, a (wrong) belief popular among actual Zero secondaries you know, i'm starting to think that the nasuverse holds a special breed of people who lack the brain capacitiy to understand what ''retcon'' means. secondaries are retards, they don't even get what we mean by ''corruption''. then again, I'm the kind of people every fandom hates, the one that recommends kizumonogatari as an entry point since nishio green lit that officially. so there is that |
LelouchwakamsNov 18, 2019 8:34 PM
Aure0lin said: Lelouchwakams said: that might very well have been what she would've done at the start before jason pushed her over the edge just like in the original mythyeah, because she's obviously was gonna summon the demon god pillar from herself and disobey her reason for being summoned  ..............................................................what |
Lelouchwakams said: "wow look at me using dead meme im so funny and random xD" Aure0lin said: that might very well have been what she would've done at the start before jason pushed her over the edge just like in the original myth ..............................................................what |
| "I like young-girl sexual creations, Lolicon is just one hobby of my many hobbies," he says. I ask what his wife, standing nearby, thinks of his "hobby". "She probably thinks no problem," he replies. "Because she loves young boys sexually interacting with each other." |
 If posting memes makes you right in an argument*, you're in a pretty bad spot my dude. Way more than two people can play this game. |
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| This is still going are we serious now? We are really doing this? And did this guy just claim that Gil being corrupted in Zero-FSN(just for the sake of argument) somehow makes every other Archer Gil, or all Gils, also corrupted? We are dealing with a very special breed indeed. Holy fuck, I dont care if you are a troll or genuinely retarded but all this shit managed to trigger me and I am not even the one dealing with you. Holy shit. |
Lelouchwakams said: Trojan_Invasion said: imagine calling people secondaries while simultaneously claiming Gilgamesh was corrupted by the grail, a (wrong) belief popular among actual Zero secondaries you know, i'm starting to think that the nasuverse holds a special breed of people who lack the brain capacitiy to understand what ''retcon'' means. secondaries are retards, they don't even get what we mean by ''corruption''. then again, I'm the kind of people every fandom hates, the one that recommends kizumonogatari as an entry point since nishio green lit that officially. so there is that Calling others secondaries is a bit rich when you clearly haven't read the Zero LN |
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Trojan_Invasion said: Lelouchwakams said: you know, i'm starting to think that the nasuverse holds a special breed of people who lack the brain capacitiy to understand what ''retcon'' means. secondaries are retards, they don't even get what we mean by ''corruption''. then again, I'm the kind of people every fandom hates, the one that recommends kizumonogatari as an entry point since nishio green lit that officially. so there is that Calling others secondaries is a bit rich when you clearly haven't read the Zero LN Or any other Fate tbh. |
Trojan_Invasion said: Lelouchwakams said: you know, i'm starting to think that the nasuverse holds a special breed of people who lack the brain capacitiy to understand what ''retcon'' means. secondaries are retards, they don't even get what we mean by ''corruption''. then again, I'm the kind of people every fandom hates, the one that recommends kizumonogatari as an entry point since nishio green lit that officially. so there is that Calling others secondaries is a bit rich when you clearly haven't read the Zero LN >I don't like you so i'm gonna call you an ignorant hypocrat. wanna have a public live contest to prove your position (about the nasuverse, any title, LITERALLY), anytime sweetie? oh wait, you would just chicken out ufotable adaptation is all just fancy animation, otherwise, it's shit. urobutcher all the way my guy ssjokg said: Trojan_Invasion said: Calling others secondaries is a bit rich when you clearly haven't read the Zero LN Or any other Fate tbh. so was said by mr ''i'm triggered and i'm not even gonna debate you about it and gonna assume stuff because that makes me feel better hurr durr''. same challenge posed above is open to you, hun. (don't chicken out, please) and I indeed know better than you, the people whom would be most probable candidate for a ''secondaries'', for I know beyond the depths of the moonruns. from TM mag to the voice of the angel to the ZERO backbone of the Ex series to the tower of the lost year to the coral to the ''notes.inc side'' works themselves well, unless you are familiar with the works, those references will fly over your head anyway. yet the plebs who read the materials through shitty english second source wise and only rarely read anything outside translated fate of the nasuverse dare to Oppose me ? How laughable, hilarious, funny indeed. ssjokg said: This is still going are we serious now? We are really doing this? And did this guy just claim that Gil being corrupted in Zero-FSN(just for the sake of argument) somehow makes every other Archer Gil, or all Gils, also corrupted? We are dealing with a very special breed indeed. Holy fuck, I dont care if you are a troll or genuinely retarded but all this shit managed to trigger me and I am not even the one dealing with you. Holy shit. And did this guy just claim that Gil being corrupted in Zero-FSN(just for the sake of argument) somehow makes every other Archer Gil, or all Gils, also corrupted? their spitircons are indeed summoned chronologially between timelines. and the ones summoned at the mainline show to be the earliest, so either prove it otherwise or just stop flooding this thread with ''I'm TRIGGEREDDDDDDD'' this shit managed to trigger me We are dealing with a very special breed indeed. thanks for backing up my hypothesis with your statements above LeloTheUnamused said: 'If posting memes makes you right in an argument*, you're in a pretty bad spot my dude. Way more than two people can play this game. ''If posting memes makes you right in an argument*'' is not an argument. >said by the guy whose argument is comaplaining about others posting memes alongside counter points whilst the sayer himself does worse. kek ''Way more than two people can play this game.'' sure, just bother to provide official valid counter points to the stuff I provided alongside my so called ''meme'' and you're ready to go....OH WAIT. it doesn't indeed, it's the counter points alongside that that does, thanks for pointing that out, now guess whose ranting ''doesn't''...that's right, it's the guy who post a meme without counter points at all sounds darn similar to someone I just talked to Lel0uchZer0 said: Lelouchwakams said: >says wants more than 1 perspective >process to call anything other than 1 perspective a tryhard what a joke of an OP No but you literally start bringing some hundred sequels i don't give a damn about and have some really stupid arguments about gilgamesh although you have no idea about him as a character overall 1. He was not corrupted by the grail. He just saw how something humanity created was such a disgrace and wanted to destroy humanity 2. Stop replying to this thread (you only spam stuff this thread is not made for) 3. Please don't use lelouch ever again as a pic or name ... you are unworthy 4. Have a good day (will not respond to you no longer) No but you literally start bringing some hundred sequels i don't give a damn about are you new to the internet or something? why should I care about what you care as an OP in a thread? OP stay neutral in the thread, sherlock. and have some really stupid arguments about gilgamesh although you have no idea about him as a character overall kek, mr ''who's nasu?'' He was not corrupted by the grail. He just saw how something humanity created was such a disgrace and wanted to destroy humanity cite your evidence Stop replying to this thread (you only spam stuff this thread is not made for) don't tell what to do OP, otherwise, the mods will scold you for that and then I would feel bad for you 3. Please don't use lelouch ever again as a pic or name ... you are unworthy is this preschool? 4. Have a good day (will not respond to you no longer) so you just wasted time for no reason. good to know Aure0lin said: "wow look at me using dead meme im so funny and random xD" if you have time to be so salty triggered then at least answer the question of whether you're serious or not. oh wait, no you can't because you don't want to |
LelouchwakamsNov 19, 2019 2:26 PM
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