Your stance on regressive/nasty masculine behavior?

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Apr 2019

1015

Some males grew up with a warped expectation of what a "true" male should be, and "toxic masculinity" is the result.
In short, I see them as males who try too hard to appear tough and masculine. These includes, but are not limited to

Being masculine is about being strong and dominant, yet gentle, loving and kind.
Not about being some toughshit who yells at everyone and head butts walls, that's what tryhards do.
It's actually pretty sad since that's what our current society is telling/showing how a man should act.

Also, showing emotions isn't weak. It's "showing too much" is what's considered weak.
You can cry if your mom dies, but if you cry because you spilled your milk, then it's pretty stupid.

tl;dr: Toxic masculinity is what I view as tryhard masculinity.
Just what the above user me said, Traditional masculinity isn't bad, but if you take it to the extremes then that's where the problems lies.

Oct 21, 2019 12:22 PM

#53

Oeufhbpi

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Oct 2018

1439

That it's regressive/nasty ............

--

Oct 21, 2019 12:34 PM

#54

Silverstorm

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Mar 2011

4390

Railey2 said:

Silverstorm said:

I too have wondered this. I think the term for it gets undermined by the research into it. Diet is the biggest example I can think of right now, but its not termed toxic--just an issue that is more so around women and applied differently to men.

now that I think about it, the largest instance of toxic femininity was probably women surrendering their independence to men and placing themselves in a position of inferiority where they often helplessly suffered abuse, which incidentally gets mostly dealt with through female empowerment. So maybe that's our toxic masculinity equivalent movement, it's just called feminism and encompasses a little more than toxic masculinity does?

I'm having a hard time thinking of widespread cultural, harmful female behaviors that aren't dealt with by feminists, so maybe it's really just that. It exists, but has a different name.

That's the same answer I run into also, a rose by any other name in a sense.

"In the end the World really doesn't need a Superman. Just a Brave one"

Oct 21, 2019 12:53 PM

#55

deg

Online

Jan 2009

92157

the psychological association says its harmful

Traditional Masculinity Can Hurt Boys, Say New A.P.A. Guidelines

The guidelines, 10 in all, posit that males who are socialized to conform to “traditional masculinity ideology” are often negatively affected in terms of mental and physical health.

They acknowledge that ideas about masculinity vary across cultures, age groups and ethnicities. But they point to common themes like “anti-femininity, achievement, eschewal of the appearance of weakness, and adventure, risk, and violence.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/10/science/apa-traditional-masculinity-harmful.html

Oct 21, 2019 12:58 PM

#56

YossaRedMage

Offline

Oct 2017

1556

The phrase has a semantic problem that I think comes from the use of the word "masculinity" so there are many people who will push back whenever they hear the phrase becuase they perceive it as attacking men as a whole.

I think it's too much of a buzzword, and it is more helpful to talk about specific instances.

For me, my biggest issue with toxic behaviour that is typically exhibited by men is the kind of laddish, shouty, drinking culture that is prevelent in my country (UK). I have this idea of going to a chill bar and enjoying a certain type of evening atmosphere which it seems only exists in very rare places, or just in the US, or just in American movies. Either way I've never found it in my country.

If I go out in the evening to a bar or club, I'm bombarded with loud, aggressive, drunken dudes and it's just not my thing. So I see that kind of boisterious, shouty, "lad" culture as a kind of "toxic masculinity" and I'd love to see it go away.

But that's just me. Frankly, I would never go on any kind of crusade to change other people because that's imposing my values on others.

And that's my big problem with much of the talk of "toxic masculinity". It's always, "we need to do something / fix something / change society". Let people live how they want. If you pisses you off then avoid the people or the areas of society that you don't like.

I think it's so arrogant how so many people think they have to try and change people. Let people be different. There will be differences you can enjoy and difference you won't. Avoid the latter.

“In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche
Aggregate scoring is bad for the anime fandom

Oct 21, 2019 2:34 PM

#57

_Nemrod_

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Apr 2014

407

The main problem of the masculinity of the Western man does not lie in his excess but in his lack. It is not the fight against toxic masculinity that really is forged in the West but the fight against masculinity itself.

Not being able to cry when it is reasonable to do so is a problem, but not defending the integrity of the girls (daughters) from our eyes because we are terrified of pain and death is a tragedy. What is the point of continuing to live if we lose our honor and dignity instead?Isn't it better to die with the taste of glory in our mouth?

If the castration of the Western man ends up being consummated, it will not be the afeminate culture who will have the last word in the Western Hemisphere, but the hypermasculine culture of Islam.

_Nemrod_Oct 21, 2019 4:27 PM

Oct 21, 2019 4:29 PM

#58

removed-user

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Jul 2018

564616

RicePounder said:
I agree with you @Maneki-Mew

Having the self-confidence to just do what you prefer to do is what is most important. With that said self-confident people are not immune to the effects of society and culture around them. There will always be pressure to conform to the ideas of the majority, which might have direct or indirect consequence for going against the grain of society.

I grew up without someone telling me what should or shouldn't be outwardly expressed as a guy. All my parents worried about was whether or not I was staying out of trouble and if I was doing okay with school and work - everything else will fall into place naturally over time.

The people who have most often caused conflict are the one's who can't accept that others do not want to follow the status quo image [the gender roles of a particular society] of what it means to be a guy vs a girl. That is not to say that the rebels of social thought are innocent of conflict; but rather that more often than not the status quo are the majority of people who seek to push the majority idea onto the minority thought process. No side is "right"...b/c what we do with ourselves is all subjective and we all possess a level of self-agency.
----------------

My personal though it this: "you do you and I do me" we each do what we want as long as we aren't hurting others in the process. It doesn't mean that everyone is forced to like the same things as everyone else...it just means being respectful of these differences and agreeing to disagree at times, without pushing it into a serious altercation.

Of course not, but if you don't tell kids all the time that something is wrong with the way they are (of course, if their behavior isn't hurting themselves or others), they grow up to be more self-confident people.

Tbh I also often have problems to express and speak about feelings and all. Since I'm a woman, it's not because society looks down on it, although there is this attitude that women with more masculine traits are better than very feminine women, since feminity = weekness. It's also not because my environment forbade me doing this indirectly, but yeah my childhood and family was fucked up in general in big parts, that's why.

I know how this feels like and you definitely shouldn't encourage in addition to that people to swallow feelings and dealing with struggles all alone. In the combination with the social desirability of strength and fulfilling provider roles, it gets much worse. Some of these men, if they can't fulfill their learnes roles, become very insecure about that.

Although it depends a lot on their social circle, ethnicity and education of their parents. It's worse in families with low education level and right-winged leaning worst in conservative muslim families from my experiences in school, university and work.
A friend from a ... typical-redneck austrian family was slapped as a boy, because he got hurt and cried and instead of comforting the kid, his mother thought it was a good idea to yell at him and slap him for "crying like a girl". He isn't too fond of his family needless to say and in general I wonder how he turned out so fine lol I mean, I don't actually wonder, he said he used to be more like that and also quite racist etc., until he said goodbye to his family and came into a better and more accepting friend circle.

Luchse said:

Maneki-Mew said:

Okay haha, enjoy!

Still don't get your way of thinking. According to your logic you should never change something. There is always the possibility that you could make something worse.

The boys and men I know tho, who weren't told or don't believe they never should feel sad etc., seem to be happier and more confident people to me at long term perspective.
Teaching kids some real self-confidence makes them stronger than this idea of fake-strength. If they come on good terms with themselves, it makes them a far more confident person than teaching boys they should be ashamed of their feelings and all.

Up above I said this:

Yes, my whole point is that some things are better left untouched because if we do take the road of tackling them we risk making it even worse.

I merely stated what "should" be done but that does not mean that I myself practice it so a possibility for a change is there. And it's not "you should never change something", it was "some things" minus the never part.

Not everyone can take that way of doing things because many will fail.

Of course, I guess many will fail, but it might be a good thing for many others.
You can't force anyone into changing their way of thinking anyway.

imeli said:
Toxic masculinity is a concept made up by people born in the past thirty years who are insecure about what it means to be masculine, mostly by boys who were raised without any real masculine influences and females who have been spoiled to death by their fathers, boyfriends, spouses, etc.

LOL... of course. Could you imagine that it mainly comes from women and other men, who experienced violence from men? Of course, women are violent too, but society backs up for the violent behavior of boys (and produces it in addition by making them oppressing feelings and give them a lot of pressure) and tries to encourage them to be sexually aggressive too. Especially if you experience sexual violence from men.

Oct 21, 2019 6:41 PM

#59

149597871

Cat Hater

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Feb 2017

8665

In psychology, toxic masculinity refers to traditional cultural masculine norms that can be harmful to men, women, and society overall; this concept of toxic masculinity is not intended to demonize men or male attributes, but rather to emphasize the harmful effects of conformity to certain traditional masculine ideal behaviors such as dominance, self-reliance, and competition.

Yea, self-reliance and competition have too much to do with evolution which is a huge no-no in 2019.

Of course for the most part, toxic masculinity has a negative effect on our society as nobody should be told how to live their life based on their biological sex. However the definition is far too vague and includes some patterns that aren't necessarily bad or harmful. A person should be strong, independent and seek ways to improve themselves in order to protect themselves and their family as well as to ensure the long-term survival of their species.

Also you shouldn't always suppress your emotions but you should learn how to control them as emotional incontinence is far worse.

As for using "boys will be boys" to excuse things such as physical violence, bullying or sexual harassment I think most people can agree that this is an absurd excuse.

Oct 22, 2019 8:51 AM

#60

Offline

Feb 2017

1594

Maneki-Mew said:

RicePounder said:
I agree with you @Maneki-Mew

Having the self-confidence to just do what you prefer to do is what is most important. With that said self-confident people are not immune to the effects of society and culture around them. There will always be pressure to conform to the ideas of the majority, which might have direct or indirect consequence for going against the grain of society.

I grew up without someone telling me what should or shouldn't be outwardly expressed as a guy. All my parents worried about was whether or not I was staying out of trouble and if I was doing okay with school and work - everything else will fall into place naturally over time.

The people who have most often caused conflict are the one's who can't accept that others do not want to follow the status quo image [the gender roles of a particular society] of what it means to be a guy vs a girl. That is not to say that the rebels of social thought are innocent of conflict; but rather that more often than not the status quo are the majority of people who seek to push the majority idea onto the minority thought process. No side is "right"...b/c what we do with ourselves is all subjective and we all possess a level of self-agency.
----------------

My personal though it this: "you do you and I do me" we each do what we want as long as we aren't hurting others in the process. It doesn't mean that everyone is forced to like the same things as everyone else...it just means being respectful of these differences and agreeing to disagree at times, without pushing it into a serious altercation.

Of course not, but if you don't tell kids all the time that something is wrong with the way they are (of course, if their behavior isn't hurting themselves or others), they grow up to be more self-confident people.

Tbh I also often have problems to express and speak about feelings and all. Since I'm a woman, it's not because society looks down on it, although there is this attitude that women with more masculine traits are better than very feminine women, since feminity = weekness. It's also not because my environment forbade me doing this indirectly, but yeah my childhood and family was fucked up in general in big parts, that's why.

I know how this feels like and you definitely shouldn't encourage in addition to that people to swallow feelings and dealing with struggles all alone. In the combination with the social desirability of strength and fulfilling provider roles, it gets much worse. Some of these men, if they can't fulfill their learnes roles, become very insecure about that.

Although it depends a lot on their social circle, ethnicity and education of their parents. It's worse in families with low education level and right-winged leaning worst in conservative muslim families from my experiences in school, university and work.
A friend from a ... typical-redneck austrian family was slapped as a boy, because he got hurt and cried and instead of comforting the kid, his mother thought it was a good idea to yell at him and slap him for "crying like a girl". He isn't too fond of his family needless to say and in general I wonder how he turned out so fine lol I mean, I don't actually wonder, he said he used to be more like that and also quite racist etc., until he said goodbye to his family and came into a better and more accepting friend circle.

Luchse said:

Up above I said this:

I merely stated what "should" be done but that does not mean that I myself practice it so a possibility for a change is there. And it's not "you should never change something", it was "some things" minus the never part.

Not everyone can take that way of doing things because many will fail.

Of course, I guess many will fail, but it might be a good thing for many others.
You can't force anyone into changing their way of thinking anyway.

imeli said:
Toxic masculinity is a concept made up by people born in the past thirty years who are insecure about what it means to be masculine, mostly by boys who were raised without any real masculine influences and females who have been spoiled to death by their fathers, boyfriends, spouses, etc.

LOL... of course. Could you imagine that it mainly comes from women and other men, who experienced violence from men? Of course, women are violent too, but society backs up for the violent behavior of boys (and produces it in addition by making them oppressing feelings and give them a lot of pressure) and tries to encourage them to be sexually aggressive too. Especially if you experience sexual violence from men.

I think you misunderstood my post. A female being spoiled doesn't have anything to do with receiving violence from men. It's actually quite the opposite.

Oct 22, 2019 9:03 AM

#61

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Feb 2017

1594

-Kookie- said:
@imeli,
Who coined the term (it was sociologists who did) and when is irrelevant.
And I don't see all normal masculine behaviors as toxic. It just matters which ones we're talking about.
For example, guys shouldn't be put down for wearing bright colors and shaving their arms.

Like I said before, everything you are describing is the result of a self-fulfilling prophecy that stems from your inability to understand what "masculinity" is.

I have NEVER seen the example you give take place out in the real world. You are just projecting insecurities by creating standards that don't exist. In fact, one of my good friends actually shaved his arms for a while, and nobody said a damn thing. Some of my shirts are bright neon colors or have those types of colors in them, and I have never been ridiculed in my life for wearing them.

I think you should clear your head of all this gender appropriation stuff and find a better topic to post about because you are going to get ran in circles here. If someone is making fun of you for shaving your arms or wearing neon, that is not a display of ANY kind of masculinity. That's called being an asshole and it's gender neutral.

Oct 22, 2019 9:21 AM

#62

removed-user

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Jul 2018

564616

imeli said:

Maneki-Mew said:

LOL... of course. Could you imagine that it mainly comes from women and other men, who experienced violence from men? Of course, women are violent too, but society backs up for the violent behavior of boys (and produces it in addition by making them oppressing feelings and give them a lot of pressure) and tries to encourage them to be sexually aggressive too. Especially if you experience sexual violence from men.

I think you misunderstood my post. A female being spoiled doesn't have anything to do with receiving violence from men. It's actually quite the opposite.

Of course, that's what I meant.
The term of toxic masculinity wasn't created by women, who were spoiled by their male relatives or spouses.
The term was created by women, who experienced violence from their male relatives or spouses or boss.

Oct 22, 2019 10:06 AM

#63

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Sep 2019

125

@imeli, any time someone is being an asshole in the context of seeming more "manly", that is what is called toxic masculinity. Sorry you're getting hung up on definitions bud.

Oct 22, 2019 10:32 AM

#64

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Feb 2017

1594

-Kookie- said:
@imeli, any time someone is being an asshole in the context of seeming more "manly", that is what is called toxic masculinity. Sorry you're getting hung up on definitions bud.

You are just appropriating asshole behaviors to males out of insecurity and some kind of necessity for reason. People don't act as assholes because they think it makes them more "manly". That's the dumbest shit I have read on this anime forum. Your "definition" is made up and is in fact, invalid.

Like I said before, toxic behavior is gender neutral and has nothing to do with "masculinity".

Oct 22, 2019 10:37 AM

#65

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Feb 2017

1594

Dakago said:
Picking on others is wrong no matter the reason, but I have trouble understanding what counts as toxic?

If you want to share OPs worldview, toxic is anything that makes you feel uncomfortable. If it's a man doing it, appropriate it to the fact that the person is male and blame "masculinity".

Oct 22, 2019 11:10 AM

#66

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Apr 2019

1015

Dakago said:
Picking on others is wrong no matter the reason, but I have trouble understanding what counts as toxic?

That's just being an ass.

imeli said:
Like I said before, toxic behavior is gender neutral and has nothing to do with "masculinity".

You're right, Toxic Masculinity is gender neutral because masculinity is not a gender but a quality or characteristic.
It's just males are naturally more masculine than females.

People seem to misunderstand that "Masculine" and "Feminine" energy are gender locked, but it's not
Toxic masculinity is about Masculinity taken to the extremes, becoming toxic, not the "gender" itself.
a man can have feminine energy just as a woman can be masculine.

"Masculine and Feminine energy doesn't exist."
Yes it does, it's been rooted into our genes since ancient times.

Oct 22, 2019 11:15 AM

#67

Railey2

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Jul 2015

2841

149597871 said:
In psychology, toxic masculinity refers to traditional cultural masculine norms that can be harmful to men, women, and society overall; this concept of toxic masculinity is not intended to demonize men or male attributes, but rather to emphasize the harmful effects of conformity to certain traditional masculine ideal behaviors such as dominance, self-reliance, and competition.

Yea, self-reliance and competition have too much to do with evolution which is a huge no-no in 2019.

You didn't even read the definition properly. Let me highlight something here:

"the concept of toxic masculinity is intended to emphasize the harmful effects of conformity to certain traditional masculine ideal behaviors such as dominance, self-reliance, and competition."

i.e. there are harmful components to masculine ideals, next to positive and neutral ones. Toxic Masculinity deals with the harmful effects.
This doesn't mean that masculine ideals are, as a whole, harmful.
OBVIOUSLY it doesn't mean that competition and self-reliance are, as a whole, harmful.

"my life at this state could be transposed into a pretty massive biography"

- Cneq, "the guy who was literally using BTC in 2012 to make deals in the first main instance of a digital itemized economy forming naturally in all human history (also the precursor of NFTs) and who had 20k+ total trades.", 23 years old

MAL's most prolific antivaxxer, Noboru.

Oct 22, 2019 11:22 AM

#68

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Apr 2019

1015

Dakago said:

I'm wondering, does toxic femininity exist? Why is it always about masculinity ... the battle seems so one sided.

I believe it does, it's just not frowned upon as much as masculinity since toxic femininity can only harm the person doing it
while toxic masculinity can not only harm other people, but also the society as whole

If you see the picture I posted above. Look at the "Wounded section" there you can see what toxic behavior each has.

> I wouldn't call toxic femininity, toxic though. I believe there's another word for that.

Oct 22, 2019 11:33 AM

#69

Venomous

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Oct 2014

329

No OP you're just soft, grow some dick hair and stop talking about shit that don't exist. If you're a man, and you cry over anything except stepping on leggos then you might as well have a sex change surgery

Oct 22, 2019 12:05 PM

#70

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Sep 2019

125

imeli said:

-Kookie- said:
@imeli, any time someone is being an asshole in the context of seeming more "manly", that is what is called toxic masculinity. Sorry you're getting hung up on definitions bud.

You are just appropriating asshole behaviors to males out of insecurity and some kind of necessity for reason. People don't act as assholes because they think it makes them more "manly". That's the dumbest shit I have read on this anime forum. Your "definition" is made up and is in fact, invalid.

Like I said before, toxic behavior is gender neutral and has nothing to do with "masculinity".

And thanks for assuming my intentions. I couldn't possibly be going based off what actual sociologists say.
Oh wait:
https://www.brown.edu/campus-life/health/services/promotion/general-health-social-wellbeing-sexual-assault-dating-violence-get-involved-prevention/unlearning

Certain (not all) masculine behaviors, not even necessarily asshole-ish ones can have a negative side-effect on men and other people. I didn't just pull this out of my ass.
Jesus, why don't you stop shitting your pants about definitions? We basically agree on the same stuff as far as I'm concerned.

And after all this, if you need an example of toxic masculinity, I've got one right here.

imeli said:

there's nothing more I enjoy than putting a female in her place when she tries to act like a man.

-Kookie-Oct 22, 2019 12:18 PM

Oct 22, 2019 12:30 PM

#71

Mimurona

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Dec 2017

420

Ofc those type of behaviors sucks but we meet those type of "nasty masculine behavior " that nowadays is normal to see those type of persons.

Best thing to do is ignore them,if they got business with you,ask for help,if it gets worse....y'know what to do.

Same thing goes for "bitchy feminine behavior" btw.

Oct 22, 2019 12:41 PM

#72

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Sep 2019

125

Venomous said:
No OP you're just soft, grow some dick hair and stop talking about shit that don't exist. If you're a man, and you cry over anything except stepping on leggos then you might as well have a sex change surgery

I like being a guy, so no can do on the sex surgery. And if you knew me in irl, you'd realize that being a more feminine male in certain areas only benefits me in the long run. lol

Oct 22, 2019 1:01 PM

#73

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Apr 2019

1015

-Kookie- said:
if you knew me in irl, you'd realize that being a more feminine male in certain areas only benefits me in the long run. lol

just call masculinity as "strength" and feminine as "warmth" because I know some people will mistaken those words again for gender-preference as suppsed to a characteristic.

Oct 22, 2019 1:04 PM

#74

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Sep 2019

125

-Shinzo said:

-Kookie- said:
if you knew me in irl, you'd realize that being a more feminine male in certain areas only benefits me in the long run. lol

just call masculinity as "strength" and feminine as "warmth" because I know some people will mistaken those words again for gender-preference as suppsed to a characteristic.

Yeah, but in terms of attracting a partner, at least for straight women and some gay men, the warmth of femininity can serve as a strength for attracting a partner.

Oct 22, 2019 1:34 PM

#75

GrimAtrament

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Feb 2010

11919

masculinity is not all bad

and femininity isn't all good

both have flaws and values in them,

instead of using a sweeping term people should limit it to

things like "men shouldn't cry." which is basically repressing emotions without release which can cause mental health issues. this is one of the root causes behind the high suicide and depression rates with men.

wallowing in depression isn't healthy, but nor is completely suppressing emotions.

men should never hit women is just a dumb phrase especially as it imply you should use self defense. i like to say people shouldn't hit each other in general, but you should be able to defend yourself.

and the obivious boys will be boys. (if people are fighting stop them stop aiding in bystander effect.)

now femininity has negative traits as well.

especially when it comes to the passive aggressive department.
hell hath no fury like some one talking behind your back and ruining your social life.

"among monsters and humans, there are only two types.
Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice
“Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume
“Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus

Oct 22, 2019 2:36 PM

#76

nep-nep

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Sep 2013

2420

Otaku culture is a response to toxic masculinity in Japan.

But anyways, the US (and japan even more so) could benefit from the reduction of values rooted in hyper masculinity. Like, depression is super common for older males who are ashamed of no longer being able to work since they were brought up to believe that the male MUST be the majority provider of the family. Or, the fact that the US does not believe dads have a right to paternity leave to spend time with their own children. Or, the fact that japan still thinks that it's standard for women to sacrifice their careers and men to sacrifice their lives to uphold gendered role expectations in the family.

Oct 22, 2019 9:11 PM

#77

149597871

Cat Hater

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Feb 2017

8665

Railey2 said:

149597871 said:
In psychology, toxic masculinity refers to traditional cultural masculine norms that can be harmful to men, women, and society overall; this concept of toxic masculinity is not intended to demonize men or male attributes, but rather to emphasize the harmful effects of conformity to certain traditional masculine ideal behaviors such as dominance, self-reliance, and competition.

Yea, self-reliance and competition have too much to do with evolution which is a huge no-no in 2019.

You didn't even read the definition properly. Let me highlight something here:

"the concept of toxic masculinity is intended to emphasize the harmful effects of conformity to certain traditional masculine ideal behaviors such as dominance, self-reliance, and competition."

i.e. there are harmful components to masculine ideals, next to positive and neutral ones. Toxic Masculinity deals with the harmful effects.
This doesn't mean that masculine ideals are, as a whole, harmful.
OBVIOUSLY it doesn't mean that competition and self-reliance are, as a whole, harmful.

Well, yes. Technically speaking even the most honorable and innocent virtues have at least some harmful effect. This is why I mentioned that the definition is vague.

The more I read certain articles the more I realize that some people are not fully able to tell the difference between what is necessary and what is excessive/redundant which often causes things that are more beneficial than harmful to be considered as toxic (masculinity).

It is also worth mentioning that sometimes you can't remove just the harmful components without messing up the whole thing. This is why in my opinion the approach should be more delicate, especially when it comes to things that are vital for a person's survival such as the aforementioned competition and self-reliance.

Oct 22, 2019 9:33 PM

#78

xMizu_

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May 2013

13104

So like when males enforce masculine statuses and standards onto others, preventing them from tapping into a more feminine sociocultural outlook?

Or when men actually denigrate and emasculate each other in overbearing 'hazing' efforts?

In either case, I don't much support it! But I do think this world makes it very difficult to be a truly nice person. You just have to keep trying at it or at least believing in it.

I CELEBRATE myself,
And what I assume you shall assume,
For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you.

Oct 22, 2019 10:31 PM

#79

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Mar 2019

4051

Luchse said:

Railey2 said:
@Luchse see, that's what I mean. You instinctively equate men showing emotions to men being weak.
And your idea of a solution is that men should just cry in private to their therapists.

I'm a man myself so a thing like this is to be expected.
This is my reasoning behind it. -if we allow men to express their feelings they "automatically" become weaker beings and we've no need for weak beings.
Society is a cruel environment so making men weaker than they are is failing the society as the whole.

But it doesn't have to be that way. Crying doesn't make men weaker any more than it makes women weaker. Crying is a sign of distress, and that distress can be fully justified, depending on the situation. There's no reason for it to not be socially acceptable. This is the toxic idea that needs to be eliminated, the idea that crying = weakness

it just isn't true.

Yes, it shows all that but it hurts our fragile egos which in return deals more damage to us than just hiding it does.
We would need to delve deeper into the subject to answer something like this. Throughout the history of humankind, men were forced into being what today is seen as toxic while women were left to being women. My point is that this is so deeply enrooted in the mind of man that making us do otherwise hurts us more.

and no it wasn't Ryuk. Honestly i've given up on talking to Ryuk, he's just awful through and through.

Ryuk lost me with that ghosts exist thread. Especially his argument "so many people have seen them so not all of them could be lying".

Lmao, talk about some boring friends and discussions you've had if belief in ghosts is that shocking to you.

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Oct 23, 2019 2:55 AM

#80

Luchse

Offline

Mar 2018

3772

Ryuk9428 said:

Luchse said:

I'm a man myself so a thing like this is to be expected.
This is my reasoning behind it. -if we allow men to express their feelings they "automatically" become weaker beings and we've no need for weak beings.
Society is a cruel environment so making men weaker than they are is failing the society as the whole.

Yes, it shows all that but it hurts our fragile egos which in return deals more damage to us than just hiding it does.
We would need to delve deeper into the subject to answer something like this. Throughout the history of humankind, men were forced into being what today is seen as toxic while women were left to being women. My point is that this is so deeply enrooted in the mind of man that making us do otherwise hurts us more.

Ryuk lost me with that ghosts exist thread. Especially his argument "so many people have seen them so not all of them could be lying".

Lmao, talk about some boring friends and discussions you've had if belief in ghosts is that shocking to you.

It's Not shocking but actually ridiculous.

“The most shameless thing in the world is political power that can be inherited regardless of ability or talent!”

Oct 23, 2019 2:57 AM

#81

Offline

Feb 2019

4373

Luchse said:

Ryuk9428 said:

Lmao, talk about some boring friends and discussions you've had if belief in ghosts is that shocking to you.

It's Not shocking but actually ridiculous.

What do you mean? Ghosts totally exist, bruh. How could all those people saying they saw a ghost be lying? You're just making a fool out of yourself, you should be ashamed!

Oct 23, 2019 3:03 AM

#82

Luchse

Offline

Mar 2018

3772

Kosmonaut said:

Luchse said:

It's Not shocking but actually ridiculous.

What do you mean? Ghosts totally exist, bruh. How could all those people saying they saw a ghost be lying? You're just making a fool out of yourself, you should be ashamed!

You will have to excuse me because that was my bourgeois nature seeing the light of day.

“The most shameless thing in the world is political power that can be inherited regardless of ability or talent!”

Oct 23, 2019 3:19 AM

#83

AnimeFeminist

Offline

Jul 2019

363

Toxic masculinity refers to harmful behaviour and attitudes commonly associated with some men, such as the need to repress emotions during stressful situations, and to act in an aggressively dominant way.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxic_masculinity

It is a real problem that feminist scholars were talking about for years in academic circles, but only recently it became mainstream.
The solution is to treat it from the young age with counseling and good parenting.

Never explain,
Never retract,
Never apologize
Just get the thing done
And let them howl

Oct 23, 2019 6:50 AM

#84

DateYutaka

Offline

Mar 2011

25073

if people new my past and links ot some group people would call me more than Toxic

"If you tremble with indignation at every injustice, then you are a comrade of mine"

When the union's inspiration through the workers' blood shall run
There can be no power greater anywhere beneath the sun
Yet what force on earth is weaker than the feeble strength of one
For the Union makes us strong

Oct 23, 2019 7:41 AM

#85

MiloD

Offline

Sep 2009

1346

Their existence allow others to self-reflect own standards...
But they are pain to handle...
Best keep a distance away from them...

Oct 23, 2019 7:56 AM

#86

Offline

Mar 2019

4051

Luchse said:

Ryuk9428 said:

Lmao, talk about some boring friends and discussions you've had if belief in ghosts is that shocking to you.

It's Not shocking but actually ridiculous.

I'll give you a little background on my dad and granddad. They're both mentally healthy, they're not superstitious individuals, and they refuse to lie, ever. Not only that but very stubborn about their convictions so they wouldn't lie over something silly like this.

One day they were driving and saw a truck in the road with an old man driving it. Didn't realize how slow it was going until they got very close. My dad panicked and my granddad slammed on the brakes. They didn't do it in time though and hit the car...

Except they didn't... They passed right through it. When they stopped and looked back, the truck had vanished. My dad asked my granddad to describe the truck and they both described the exact same thing.

Explain to me how that is possible? Two mentally healthy individuals saw the exact same thing and almost got into a car crash with a truck that vanished?

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Oct 23, 2019 8:01 AM

#87

Offline

Mar 2019

4051

Kosmonaut said:

Luchse said:

It's Not shocking but actually ridiculous.

What do you mean? Ghosts totally exist, bruh. How could all those people saying they saw a ghost be lying? You're just making a fool out of yourself, you should be ashamed!

If you are gonna make fun of someone you should at least try to be funny while you are doing it.

Ryuk9428Oct 23, 2019 8:08 AM

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Oct 23, 2019 8:04 AM

#88

Offline

Feb 2019

4373

Ryuk9428 said:

Kosmonaut said:

What do you mean? Ghosts totally exist, bruh. How could all those people saying they saw a ghost be lying? You're just making a fool out of yourself, you should be ashamed!

If you are gonna make fun of someone you should at least try to be funny while you are doing it.

C'mon, dude, don't be mean to me, I was standing up to you. This is why nice guys are giving up on being nice...

Oct 23, 2019 8:10 AM

#89

Offline

Mar 2019

4051

Kosmonaut said:

Ryuk9428 said:

If you are gonna make fun of someone you should at least try to be funny while you are doing it.

C'mon, dude, don't be mean to me, I was standing up to you. This is why nice guys are giving up on being nice...

Yeah you're still not there. Keep trying, I'm pretty easy to amuse, I'm sure you'll come up with a good one someday ;)

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Oct 23, 2019 8:11 AM

#90

Offline

Feb 2019

4373

Ryuk9428 said:

Kosmonaut said:

Ryuk9428 said:

Kosmonaut said:

Luchse said:

Ryuk9428 said:

Luchse said:

Railey2 said:
@Luchse see, that's what I mean. You instinctively equate men showing emotions to men being weak.
And your idea of a solution is that men should just cry in private to their therapists.

I'm a man myself so a thing like this is to be expected.
This is my reasoning behind it. -if we allow men to express their feelings they "automatically" become weaker beings and we've no need for weak beings.
Society is a cruel environment so making men weaker than they are is failing the society as the whole.

But it doesn't have to be that way. Crying doesn't make men weaker any more than it makes women weaker. Crying is a sign of distress, and that distress can be fully justified, depending on the situation. There's no reason for it to not be socially acceptable. This is the toxic idea that needs to be eliminated, the idea that crying = weakness

it just isn't true.

Yes, it shows all that but it hurts our fragile egos which in return deals more damage to us than just hiding it does.
We would need to delve deeper into the subject to answer something like this. Throughout the history of humankind, men were forced into being what today is seen as toxic while women were left to being women. My point is that this is so deeply enrooted in the mind of man that making us do otherwise hurts us more.

and no it wasn't Ryuk. Honestly i've given up on talking to Ryuk, he's just awful through and through.

Ryuk lost me with that ghosts exist thread. Especially his argument "so many people have seen them so not all of them could be lying".

Lmao, talk about some boring friends and discussions you've had if belief in ghosts is that shocking to you.

It's Not shocking but actually ridiculous.

What do you mean? Ghosts totally exist, bruh. How could all those people saying they saw a ghost be lying? You're just making a fool out of yourself, you should be ashamed!

If you are gonna make fun of someone you should at least try to be funny while you are doing it.

C'mon, dude, don't be mean to me, I was standing up to you. This is why nice guys are giving up on being nice...

Yeah you're still not there. Keep trying, I'm pretty easy to amuse, I'm sure you'll come up with a good one someday ;)

You should stop teasing me this much, Ryuk. I fall in love quite easily.

Oct 23, 2019 8:18 AM

#91

Offline

Mar 2019

4051

Kosmonaut said:

Ryuk9428 said:

Kosmonaut said:

Ryuk9428 said:

Kosmonaut said:

Luchse said:

Ryuk9428 said:

Luchse said:

Railey2 said:
@Luchse see, that's what I mean. You instinctively equate men showing emotions to men being weak.
And your idea of a solution is that men should just cry in private to their therapists.

I'm a man myself so a thing like this is to be expected.
This is my reasoning behind it. -if we allow men to express their feelings they "automatically" become weaker beings and we've no need for weak beings.
Society is a cruel environment so making men weaker than they are is failing the society as the whole.

But it doesn't have to be that way. Crying doesn't make men weaker any more than it makes women weaker. Crying is a sign of distress, and that distress can be fully justified, depending on the situation. There's no reason for it to not be socially acceptable. This is the toxic idea that needs to be eliminated, the idea that crying = weakness

it just isn't true.

Yes, it shows all that but it hurts our fragile egos which in return deals more damage to us than just hiding it does.
We would need to delve deeper into the subject to answer something like this. Throughout the history of humankind, men were forced into being what today is seen as toxic while women were left to being women. My point is that this is so deeply enrooted in the mind of man that making us do otherwise hurts us more.

and no it wasn't Ryuk. Honestly i've given up on talking to Ryuk, he's just awful through and through.

Ryuk lost me with that ghosts exist thread. Especially his argument "so many people have seen them so not all of them could be lying".

Lmao, talk about some boring friends and discussions you've had if belief in ghosts is that shocking to you.

It's Not shocking but actually ridiculous.

What do you mean? Ghosts totally exist, bruh. How could all those people saying they saw a ghost be lying? You're just making a fool out of yourself, you should be ashamed!

If you are gonna make fun of someone you should at least try to be funny while you are doing it.

C'mon, dude, don't be mean to me, I was standing up to you. This is why nice guys are giving up on being nice...

Yeah you're still not there. Keep trying, I'm pretty easy to amuse, I'm sure you'll come up with a good one someday ;)

You should stop teasing me this much, Ryuk. I fall in love quite easily.

There! You got it. You cracked a smile, congratulations

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Oct 23, 2019 8:23 AM

#92

Offline

Feb 2019

4373

Ryuk9428 said:

Kosmonaut said:

Ryuk9428 said:

Kosmonaut said:

Ryuk9428 said:

Kosmonaut said:

Luchse said:

Ryuk9428 said:

Luchse said:

Railey2 said:
@Luchse see, that's what I mean. You instinctively equate men showing emotions to men being weak.
And your idea of a solution is that men should just cry in private to their therapists.

I'm a man myself so a thing like this is to be expected.
This is my reasoning behind it. -if we allow men to express their feelings they "automatically" become weaker beings and we've no need for weak beings.
Society is a cruel environment so making men weaker than they are is failing the society as the whole.

But it doesn't have to be that way. Crying doesn't make men weaker any more than it makes women weaker. Crying is a sign of distress, and that distress can be fully justified, depending on the situation. There's no reason for it to not be socially acceptable. This is the toxic idea that needs to be eliminated, the idea that crying = weakness

it just isn't true.

Yes, it shows all that but it hurts our fragile egos which in return deals more damage to us than just hiding it does.
We would need to delve deeper into the subject to answer something like this. Throughout the history of humankind, men were forced into being what today is seen as toxic while women were left to being women. My point is that this is so deeply enrooted in the mind of man that making us do otherwise hurts us more.

and no it wasn't Ryuk. Honestly i've given up on talking to Ryuk, he's just awful through and through.

Ryuk lost me with that ghosts exist thread. Especially his argument "so many people have seen them so not all of them could be lying".

Lmao, talk about some boring friends and discussions you've had if belief in ghosts is that shocking to you.

It's Not shocking but actually ridiculous.

What do you mean? Ghosts totally exist, bruh. How could all those people saying they saw a ghost be lying? You're just making a fool out of yourself, you should be ashamed!

If you are gonna make fun of someone you should at least try to be funny while you are doing it.

C'mon, dude, don't be mean to me, I was standing up to you. This is why nice guys are giving up on being nice...

Yeah you're still not there. Keep trying, I'm pretty easy to amuse, I'm sure you'll come up with a good one someday ;)

You should stop teasing me this much, Ryuk. I fall in love quite easily.

There! You got it. You cracked a smile, congratulations

Now I'm no longer interested. I preferred it when you pretended to hate me and treated me like the filthy SJW I am.

Oct 23, 2019 8:25 AM

#93

Luchse

Offline

Mar 2018

3772

Ryuk9428 said:

Luchse said:

It's Not shocking but actually ridiculous.

I'll give you a little background on my dad and granddad. They're both mentally healthy, they're not superstitious individuals, and they refuse to lie, ever. Not only that but very stubborn about their convictions so they wouldn't lie over something silly like this.

One day they were driving and saw a truck in the road with an old man driving it. Didn't realize how slow it was going until they got very close. My dad panicked and my granddad slammed on the brakes. They didn't do it in time though and hit the car...

Except they didn't... They passed right through it. When they stopped and looked back, the truck had vanished. My dad asked my granddad to describe the truck and they both described the exact same thing.

Explain to me how that is possible? Two mentally healthy individuals saw the exact same thing and almost got into a car crash with a truck that vanished?

@Kosmonaut Here he goes about his family again lol

“The most shameless thing in the world is political power that can be inherited regardless of ability or talent!”

Oct 23, 2019 8:27 AM

#94

SpamuraiSensei

Offline

Nov 2016

3089

Masculinity like that is needed. The world can be a cruel teacher and getting hardened to it is important.

Oct 23, 2019 9:24 AM

#95

Offline

Mar 2019

4051

Kosmonaut said:

Ryuk9428 said:

Kosmonaut said:

Ryuk9428 said:

Kosmonaut said:

Ryuk9428 said:

Kosmonaut said:

Luchse said:

Ryuk9428 said:

Luchse said:

Railey2 said:
@Luchse see, that's what I mean. You instinctively equate men showing emotions to men being weak.
And your idea of a solution is that men should just cry in private to their therapists.

I'm a man myself so a thing like this is to be expected.
This is my reasoning behind it. -if we allow men to express their feelings they "automatically" become weaker beings and we've no need for weak beings.
Society is a cruel environment so making men weaker than they are is failing the society as the whole.

But it doesn't have to be that way. Crying doesn't make men weaker any more than it makes women weaker. Crying is a sign of distress, and that distress can be fully justified, depending on the situation. There's no reason for it to not be socially acceptable. This is the toxic idea that needs to be eliminated, the idea that crying = weakness

it just isn't true.

Yes, it shows all that but it hurts our fragile egos which in return deals more damage to us than just hiding it does.
We would need to delve deeper into the subject to answer something like this. Throughout the history of humankind, men were forced into being what today is seen as toxic while women were left to being women. My point is that this is so deeply enrooted in the mind of man that making us do otherwise hurts us more.

and no it wasn't Ryuk. Honestly i've given up on talking to Ryuk, he's just awful through and through.

Ryuk lost me with that ghosts exist thread. Especially his argument "so many people have seen them so not all of them could be lying".

Lmao, talk about some boring friends and discussions you've had if belief in ghosts is that shocking to you.

It's Not shocking but actually ridiculous.

What do you mean? Ghosts totally exist, bruh. How could all those people saying they saw a ghost be lying? You're just making a fool out of yourself, you should be ashamed!

If you are gonna make fun of someone you should at least try to be funny while you are doing it.

C'mon, dude, don't be mean to me, I was standing up to you. This is why nice guys are giving up on being nice...

Yeah you're still not there. Keep trying, I'm pretty easy to amuse, I'm sure you'll come up with a good one someday ;)

You should stop teasing me this much, Ryuk. I fall in love quite easily.

There! You got it. You cracked a smile, congratulations

Now I'm no longer interested. I preferred it when you pretended to hate me and treated me like the filthy SJW I am.

Well that would be consistent with your womanly nature (sarcasm).

Look man I don't hate anyone. Annoyed with? Sure. Frustrated with? Maybe. But did you dox me? Send me death threats? Try to hack my account? You're good man. You're just another dude on the internet I got into an argument with. A year from now I probably won't even be on this website or remember who you are if we're not friends.

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Oct 23, 2019 10:03 AM

#96

Starchaser

Offline

Nov 2017

4617

I'm just glad I don't subscribe to such ridiculousness. I'm assuming things like, Men aren't supposed to cry, Gay = effeminate, "You're a guy, you're supposed to figure it out on your own" (I've actually heard someone tell my friend that), etc.

Stuff like that is destructive and unhelpful

Oct 23, 2019 11:44 AM

#97

Oriionx

Offline

Mar 2018

276

just boys being boys
Hell yea brothers!!!

吃屁股

Oct 23, 2019 12:04 PM

#98