male suicide is it a problem today?
yes
71.2%
74
no
12.5%
13
neutral
16.3%
17
104 votes
Cneq said: Yeah, not what your post did, but thanks for contributing to the discussion. Keep the humor alive.Silverstorm said: "so you agreeing with it made me question if you were blindly agreeing or sincerely read the contents of the links and came with the same conclusion."No one put a spotlight on slavery until you made that the focus of replying to my post--which means the overall point of the post and its intent was lost on you most likely cause of the type of example used, but the example was to emphasize a point I was making but you didn't actually answer the question. So I guess the answer was no, cause ryuk's posted links discredited what the user says, so you agreeing with it made me question if you were blindly agreeing or sincerely read the contents of the links and came with the same conclusion. I agreed with a single sentence and therefore threw my personal opinion out there. It has nothing to do with any of the content mentioned before and doesn't need to either. |
| "In the end the World really doesn't need a Superman. Just a Brave one" |
Silverstorm said: Yeah being sarcastic won't get you anywhere bud lol. I had no intention of adding to the discussion, like I said I simply threw my opinion out there when I read that sentence, nothing more nothing less. Honestly sounds like you're upset about the contents of my comment instead of the relativity of it to the discussion with how you're carrying on about it. Cneq said: Yeah, not what your post did, but thanks for contributing to the discussion. Keep the humor alive."so you agreeing with it made me question if you were blindly agreeing or sincerely read the contents of the links and came with the same conclusion." I agreed with a single sentence and therefore threw my personal opinion out there. It has nothing to do with any of the content mentioned before and doesn't need to either. |
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AnimeFeminist said: Hoppy said: That would make things worse. What we do need is more awareness of male suicide and an opioid ban. Most of this problems would be solved if toxic masculinity is treated from the young age and men are thought that there is nothing wrong with being emotional. So yes I definitely think that feminism would help men in the long run. Yup that's pretty much it. I used to also be duped into thinking it was the other way around the last 2-3 years, like these some of the other guys. I think it's propaganda or/and stuff on youtube doing it. Opening up and changing culture is the only way to get happier. |
 妾はアステマ, 荒廃の天使 |
Ryuk9428 said: Reason I mentioned not using those link earlier is obvious if you read them--even cemented from your words "OCED only gives the results of their studies, they don't necessarily go into all the specific conclusions that can be drawn from it. The Family Institute concluded that traditional gender roles make women happier." If the OCED (pg74) you linked only gives results of their studies and don't go into all the specifics, the Guardian link you gave does. Further on Page 75 of that report the list the reasons for the disproportionat is due to the studies participant(teens) and the fact the female students are susceptible to social pressures that boys are not (body issues etc). The Guardian link went further by illustrating the grown adult women in the US are dissatisfied not because they have more economic freedom, but because they have to perform old traditional roles on top of that freedom, essentially giving credit to the idea of women performing double work cause of policies aimed at curbing feminist goals. The link also includes examples of policy decisions which have those traditional roles harder to perform, such as mass incarceration's effects on the institution of marriage for example, harming even women that don'twant feminist ideology. Its misleading to direct the evidence as women that are feminist or under feminist ideals are less happy, cause you didn't put the results into context with the data you provided--actually pinpoints as associated causes (not even going into how 2 users pointed out the OECD study doesn't mention the terms you mentioned 'roles' or how happiness is understood culturally). I haven't even touched on the validity part of applying those studies on specific groups to the global whole. That is why I had to ask originally why you used those links as counters to traed, cause they provided examples that aid traed's stance. I didn't want to get into a long winded discussion, but your links cut short the discussion by countering you and not others you used them against.Silverstorm said: No one put a spotlight on slavery until you made that the focus of replying to my post--which means the overall point of the post and its intent was lost on you most likely cause of the type of example used, but the example was to emphasize a point I was making but you didn't actually answer the question. So I guess the answer was no, cause ryuk's posted links discredited what the user says, so you agreeing with it made me question if you were blindly agreeing or sincerely read the contents of the links and came with the same conclusion. How are the links discrediting my claims? |
| "In the end the World really doesn't need a Superman. Just a Brave one" |
Cneq said: Alot of steamboating..must be something to it..Silverstorm said: Yeah being sarcastic won't get you anywhere bud lol. I had no intention of adding to the discussion, like I said I simply threw my opinion out there when I read that sentence, nothing more nothing less. Honestly sounds like you're upset about the contents of my comment instead of the relativity of it to the discussion with how you're carrying on about it. Yeah, not what your post did, but thanks for contributing to the discussion. Keep the humor alive. |
| "In the end the World really doesn't need a Superman. Just a Brave one" |
Silverstorm said: Yep guess sarcasm is all you have. Good luck with that.Cneq said: Alot of steamboating..must be something to it..Yeah being sarcastic won't get you anywhere bud lol. I had no intention of adding to the discussion, like I said I simply threw my opinion out there when I read that sentence, nothing more nothing less. Honestly sounds like you're upset about the contents of my comment instead of the relativity of it to the discussion with how you're carrying on about it. |
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Cneq said: Nothing I said is sarcasm, you posted in the thread..contributing to it. Your post is geared as humor and you were doing a communication tactic (not the best word but not able to thesaurus another) called steamboating..Silverstorm said: Yep guess sarcasm is all you have. Good luck with that.Alot of steamboating..must be something to it.. |
| "In the end the World really doesn't need a Superman. Just a Brave one" |
Silverstorm said: Ryuk9428 said: Reason I mentioned not using those link earlier is obvious if you read them--even cemented from your words "OCED only gives the results of their studies, they don't necessarily go into all the specific conclusions that can be drawn from it. The Family Institute concluded that traditional gender roles make women happier." If the OCED (pg74) you linked only gives results of their studies and don't go into all the specifics, the Guardian link you gave does. Further on Page 75 of that report the list the reasons for the disproportionat is due to the studies participant(teens) and the fact the female students are susceptible to social pressures that boys are not (body issues etc). The Guardian link went further by illustrating the grown adult women in the US are dissatisfied not because they have more economic freedom, but because they have to perform old traditional roles on top of that freedom, essentially giving credit to the idea of women performing double work cause of policies aimed at curbing feminist goals. The link also includes examples of policy decisions which have those traditional roles harder to perform, such as mass incarceration's effects on the institution of marriage for example, harming even women that don'twant feminist ideology. Its misleading to direct the evidence as women that are feminist or under feminist ideals are less happy, cause you didn't put the results into context with the data you provided--actually pinpoints as associated causes (not even going into how 2 users pointed out the OECD study doesn't mention the terms you mentioned 'roles' or how happiness is understood culturally). I haven't even touched on the validity part of applying those studies on specific groups to the global whole. That is why I had to ask originally why you used those links as counters to traed, cause they provided examples that aid traed's stance. I didn't want to get into a long winded discussion, but your links cut short the discussion by countering you and not others you used them against.How are the links discrediting my claims? Its common sense as to why they are having to do "double duty" though. Because women being pushed into the workforce has simply created more work for everybody. I was telling Sphinxter this in another thread that there's a certain amount of work involved with taking care of a child and household and somebody also has to work to pay the bills. Under traditional norms, the duty is split up. The man works and pays the bills. The child care and household duties are the woman's job. Child care and household duties are significantly less work than a full time job, but even in a completely egalitarian situation where both parents work a full time job and split up child care and household duties equally, both people are just going to be very stressed out by the end of the day. Full time work is stressful enough and adding anything on after that makes it worse. A traditional family format would eliminate the double duty part and split up the tasks so that its more manageable for both parties. Thus, it is no surprise at all that women are stressed out as a result of double duty. But they wouldn't have to do double duty in a truly traditional family format. |
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Ryuk9428 said: Women wanting to work and being told to stay home though would undermine that idea. And the amount of work isnt making women upset but men who are not finding jobs requiring manual skill is giving way to jobs traditionally believed to associated with women (making it the anti feminist unhappy as is the case now). Its misleading to suggest house work (something not even measured the way you posit) is less than a full time job--and is self evident cause one is a job with a set amount of hours and labor laws attached v a job that is perpetual cause you can not leave it.Silverstorm said: Reason I mentioned not using those link earlier is obvious if you read them--even cemented from your words "OCED only gives the results of their studies, they don't necessarily go into all the specific conclusions that can be drawn from it. The Family Institute concluded that traditional gender roles make women happier." If the OCED (pg74) you linked only gives results of their studies and don't go into all the specifics, the Guardian link you gave does. Further on Page 75 of that report the list the reasons for the disproportionat is due to the studies participant(teens) and the fact the female students are susceptible to social pressures that boys are not (body issues etc). The Guardian link went further by illustrating the grown adult women in the US are dissatisfied not because they have more economic freedom, but because they have to perform old traditional roles on top of that freedom, essentially giving credit to the idea of women performing double work cause of policies aimed at curbing feminist goals. The link also includes examples of policy decisions which have those traditional roles harder to perform, such as mass incarceration's effects on the institution of marriage for example, harming even women that don'twant feminist ideology. Its misleading to direct the evidence as women that are feminist or under feminist ideals are less happy, cause you didn't put the results into context with the data you provided--actually pinpoints as associated causes (not even going into how 2 users pointed out the OECD study doesn't mention the terms you mentioned 'roles' or how happiness is understood culturally). I haven't even touched on the validity part of applying those studies on specific groups to the global whole. That is why I had to ask originally why you used those links as counters to traed, cause they provided examples that aid traed's stance. I didn't want to get into a long winded discussion, but your links cut short the discussion by countering you and not others you used them against. Its common sense as to why they are having to do "double duty" though. Because women being pushed into the workforce has simply created more work for everybody. I was telling Sphinxter this in another thread that there's a certain amount of work involved with taking care of a child and household and somebody also has to work to pay the bills. Under traditional norms, the duty is split up. The man works and pays the bills. The child care and household duties are the woman's job. Child care and household duties are significantly less work than a full time job, but even in a completely egalitarian situation where both parents work a full time job and split up child care and household duties equally, both people are just going to be very stressed out by the end of the day. Full time work is stressful enough and adding anything on after that makes it worse. A traditional family format would eliminate the double duty part and split up the tasks so that its more manageable for both parties. Thus, it is no surprise at all that women are stressed out as a result of double duty. But they wouldn't have to do double duty in a truly traditional family format. |
| "In the end the World really doesn't need a Superman. Just a Brave one" |
Silverstorm said: Ryuk9428 said: Women wanting to work and being told to stay home though would undermine that idea. And the amount of work isnt making women upset but men who are not finding jobs requiring manual skill is giving way to jobs traditionally believed to associated with women (making it the anti feminist unhappy as is the case now). Its misleading to suggest house work (something not even measured the way you posit) is less than a full time job--and is self evident cause one is a job with a set amount of hours and labor laws attached v a job that is perpetual cause you can not leave it.Its common sense as to why they are having to do "double duty" though. Because women being pushed into the workforce has simply created more work for everybody. I was telling Sphinxter this in another thread that there's a certain amount of work involved with taking care of a child and household and somebody also has to work to pay the bills. Under traditional norms, the duty is split up. The man works and pays the bills. The child care and household duties are the woman's job. Child care and household duties are significantly less work than a full time job, but even in a completely egalitarian situation where both parents work a full time job and split up child care and household duties equally, both people are just going to be very stressed out by the end of the day. Full time work is stressful enough and adding anything on after that makes it worse. A traditional family format would eliminate the double duty part and split up the tasks so that its more manageable for both parties. Thus, it is no surprise at all that women are stressed out as a result of double duty. But they wouldn't have to do double duty in a truly traditional family format. Very few women honestly want to work full time. Housewife is about as popular of an option as full time work (https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://img.washingtonpost.com/news/rampage/wp-content/uploads/sites/27/2014/11/Screen-Shot-2014-11-06-at-9.56.20-AM-e1415285832310.png&w=1484). The most popular option is part time work. The problem is that a lot of jobs turn "part time work" into 34 hours a week because that's how much they can get away with assigning while still saying its "part time." 34 hours a week is only marginally better than full time. Quite frankly though, I think the percentage of women who wanted to be housewives would be higher. I think the statistics only show those numbers because feminism has taught a lot of women that it is anti-woman or exploitative for a woman to be a housewife. In Japan for example, where being a housewife is more respected, 34% of the female respondents wanted to be stay at home wives compared to 22% of American respondents. It did not say how many wanted to work full time vs part time, but surveys overwhelmingly show that most women prefer part time to full time. https://japantoday.com/category/national/1-in-3-japanese-women-want-to-be-housewives-poll My mom has been a housewife for almost two decades now. Growing up and seeing what a housewife's work is like in person, I can tell you that it is much much easier than a job. The vast majority of the day my mom is watching TV, going to coffee with her friends, playing video games, or reading books. The only thing my mom really has to do is cook some of our meals, which takes about an hour, and clean either once a week or a little bit at a time. I can tell you, based on what I see, that my mom probably only has somewhere between 5-10 hours of labor per week. |
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Macewindex said: Ay man suicide is just like life/comedy for dudes, we just do it better then girls darwinism award (comedy) or survival of the fittest (life) right? maybe i get the joke when it comes to strangers like those MAL anon on 4chan that did suicide few years ago but if the suicide is done by someone close to you or yourself then its no joke anymore |
| life is incredibly rigged against men who dont cut the mustard. its true that naturally, most men would die in wars every decade or some, and women would be polyamorous or take lovers from the conquerors, but male suicide is a serious problem. i think about suicide every day, every single goddamn damn day, because i know i dont have what it takes. most women are eugenicists and are biologically coded to only desire men who are a net positive to their lives, but it doesnt make it hurt any less. im ugly, im short, im an untermensch subhuman, i will suffer the same as anybody else... |
| Too much a mess going with this thread to keep up. I just want to point out suicide rates are generally higher in places the colder and darker their weather is. This either is directly due or because people in colder climates consume alcohol more which either is caused by the depression or as a way to try to feel warmer. In places of colder weather you also see more men which I assume is because only people who live in very cold climates mainly do so for work and much of this work is physical labour and also men tolerate cold weather slightly better although they are at a bigger risk of hypothermia. |
Ryuk9428 said: Yeah and that makes no sense to me. It seems far more plausible that people are depressed and killing themselves as a result of lifelong loneliness than because of "body image problems" which quite frankly sound related anyway. After-all, why do you want your body to be attractive? All of those suicide rates are very fucking high. Russia's suicide rate being terrifyingly high doesn't discount that all of those rates are very high. Greece's suicide rate is 3.8, Spain is at 6.1, and Italy's is 5.5. Northern countries being secluded is strongly related to what I was talking about. Lifelong loneliness as a result of the breakdown of family and marriage. I wouldn't be surprised if the dark seasons and cold climate contributes though. The UK, France, and Germany drink a lot but Sweden and Iceland are not particularly hard drinkers. Certainly not compared to the Spanish. The Finnish drink a good bit though. Except that survey is not a question how many 15 years olds are depressed, so you can't equal it to mean that and they even specified gender doesn't according to their survey from 2013 seem to have as important role when older people were asked to evaluate their life's satisfaction. Thinking your life could be better≠depressed. According to article in every country girls were more likely to report being not very satisfied in their life, reason why they brought possibility of self-image problems and growing up into adult causing that, their sources being Goldbeck et al. 2007 and voelker, reel and greenleaf 2015 reports you're free to read them. Second as we are focusing on male suicide with your logic women should be far more likely to kill themselves since depression is more common diagnose for women pretty much in every country. Sweden's, Norway's and Denmark's suicide rate are not special in general, same rates can be found in every region of the World. No it doesn't. Since I rather not go that deep into cultural differences, but the stereotypes of Southern Europeans being out going and talkative compared to Northern Europeans being reserved and bad company to talk to are not just from thin air. They pretty much reflect what those societies' preferred social customs are. Basically don't be baffled if you start small talk with someone from Nordic country and they look like you grew another head, changes are you're just bothering them. This of course changes how "extreme" it is from country to country. Being also independent is also very important in Nordic countries to not bother others because that's what expected. That isn't some brand new custom same way Southern Europeans throwing big family parties isn't, those have been present for ages. I'm not implying Northern Europeans are alcoholics but how their drinking culture differs from rest of Europe and only recently has started to change. Problem isn't in Russia to take shots of vodka with your quest and eating together, that's basically same like how it is with rest of Europe drinking wine while socializing. Problem rises when your drinking consist only of drinking to get shit-faced every week to socialize or drinking to numb your feelings you don't want to deal with. And no Finns don't drink any more than rest of Europe, our alcohol costs so much it's not even a joke. |
konkeloSep 20, 2019 2:37 AM
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konkelo said: Ryuk9428 said: Yeah and that makes no sense to me. It seems far more plausible that people are depressed and killing themselves as a result of lifelong loneliness than because of "body image problems" which quite frankly sound related anyway. After-all, why do you want your body to be attractive? All of those suicide rates are very fucking high. Russia's suicide rate being terrifyingly high doesn't discount that all of those rates are very high. Greece's suicide rate is 3.8, Spain is at 6.1, and Italy's is 5.5. Northern countries being secluded is strongly related to what I was talking about. Lifelong loneliness as a result of the breakdown of family and marriage. I wouldn't be surprised if the dark seasons and cold climate contributes though. The UK, France, and Germany drink a lot but Sweden and Iceland are not particularly hard drinkers. Certainly not compared to the Spanish. The Finnish drink a good bit though. Except that survey is not a question how many 15 years olds are depressed, so you can't equal it to mean that and they even specified gender doesn't according to their survey from 2013 seem to have as important role when older people were asked to evaluate their life's satisfaction. Thinking your life could be better≠depressed. According to article in every country girls were more likely to report being not very satisfied in their life, reason why they brought possibility of self-image problems and growing up into adult causing that, their sources being Goldbeck et al. 2007 and voelker, reel and greenleaf 2015 reports you're free to read them. Second as we are focusing on male suicide with your logic women should be far more likely to kill themselves since depression is more common diagnose for women pretty much in every country. Sweden's, Norway's and Denmark's suicide rate are not special in general, same rates can be found in every region of the World. No it doesn't. Since I rather not go that deep into cultural differences, but the stereotypes of Southern Europeans being out going and talkative compared to Northern Europeans being reserved and bad company to talk to are not just from thin air. They pretty much reflect what those societies' preferred social customs are. Basically don't be baffled if you start small talk with someone from Nordic country and they look like you grew another head, changes are you're just bothering them. This of course changes how "extreme" it is from country to country. Being also independent is also very important in Nordic countries to not bother others because that's what expected. That isn't some brand new custom same way Southern Europeans throwing big family parties isn't, those have been present for ages. I'm not implying Northern Europeans are alcoholics but how their drinking culture differs from rest of Europe and only recently has started to change. Problem isn't in Russia to take shots of vodka with your quest and eating together, that's basically same like how it is with rest of Europe drinking wine while socializing. Problem rises when your drinking consist only of drinking to get shit-faced every week to socialize or drinking to numb your feelings you don't want to deal with. And no Finns don't drink any more than rest of Europe, our alcohol costs so much it's not even a joke. I think male suicide rates are worse because females may be depressed at higher rates but male depression is more severe and hopeless when it does happen. Their suicide rates are higher than average. You don't find these kind of rates in most of Latin America, Middle Eastern, or African countries. See what you mention about Northern Europeans being less sociable, more of an expectation of independence, less emphasis on family all plays into my explanation that loneliness is the #1 cause of suicide and depression. Specifically I believe romantic loneliness to be the most severe kind. And I think that feminism fuels loneliness a lot through their message of women's independence. Compared to the Germans, Eastern Europeans, French, British and Irish? No Finland doesn't drink a lot. But it's higher than Sweden, Norway, and Iceland. |
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Ryuk9428 said: konkelo said: Except that survey is not a question how many 15 years olds are depressed, so you can't equal it to mean that and they even specified gender doesn't according to their survey from 2013 seem to have as important role when older people were asked to evaluate their life's satisfaction. Thinking your life could be better≠depressed. According to article in every country girls were more likely to report being not very satisfied in their life, reason why they brought possibility of self-image problems and growing up into adult causing that, their sources being Goldbeck et al. 2007 and voelker, reel and greenleaf 2015 reports you're free to read them. Second as we are focusing on male suicide with your logic women should be far more likely to kill themselves since depression is more common diagnose for women pretty much in every country. Sweden's, Norway's and Denmark's suicide rate are not special in general, same rates can be found in every region of the World. No it doesn't. Since I rather not go that deep into cultural differences, but the stereotypes of Southern Europeans being out going and talkative compared to Northern Europeans being reserved and bad company to talk to are not just from thin air. They pretty much reflect what those societies' preferred social customs are. Basically don't be baffled if you start small talk with someone from Nordic country and they look like you grew another head, changes are you're just bothering them. This of course changes how "extreme" it is from country to country. Being also independent is also very important in Nordic countries to not bother others because that's what expected. That isn't some brand new custom same way Southern Europeans throwing big family parties isn't, those have been present for ages. I'm not implying Northern Europeans are alcoholics but how their drinking culture differs from rest of Europe and only recently has started to change. Problem isn't in Russia to take shots of vodka with your quest and eating together, that's basically same like how it is with rest of Europe drinking wine while socializing. Problem rises when your drinking consist only of drinking to get shit-faced every week to socialize or drinking to numb your feelings you don't want to deal with. And no Finns don't drink any more than rest of Europe, our alcohol costs so much it's not even a joke. I think male suicide rates are worse because females may be depressed at higher rates but male depression is more severe and hopeless when it does happen. Their suicide rates are higher than average. You don't find these kind of rates in most of Latin America, Middle Eastern, or African countries. See what you mention about Northern Europeans being less sociable, more of an expectation of independence, less emphasis on family all plays into my explanation that loneliness is the #1 cause of suicide and depression. Specifically I believe romantic loneliness to be the most severe kind. And I think that feminism fuels loneliness a lot through their message of women's independence. Compared to the Germans, Eastern Europeans, French, British and Irish? No Finland doesn't drink a lot. But it's higher than Sweden, Norway, and Iceland. Or maybe males don't identify symptoms early on and instead try to handle it on their own? See for yourself then. Also there's a possibility that few doctors in varying African countries have mentioned not every suicide might be reported and in regions that are in War suicides may not be counted. You explained feminism is making women forget about marriage and family, using that what-ever-websites-name as a support, causing male loneliness and that "traditional" gender roles can fix that and when they existed there wasn't such problem, and this is forgetting any feminism movement before that highlighted motherhood as most important thing in the World. But if Nordic countries already favored independence and not emphasis on strong family bonds beyond close relatives (even if that) where is the time when we were happy and feminism came and destroyed it? This also applying to Eastern European countries of course, since despite there not having been second wave feminism present most women still work and get high education when they're able. Nah, I don't take that not having romantic relationship is the most important breaking point to everyone. Most isolated youths and older ones I have listened to explain their lack of friends, some even had/has a significant one but due to tiny social circles and usually mental health causing problems in everyday life. Because people are different and some have different needs and wishes. Our alcohol consumption is average and the difference between Sweden is pretty small tbh. |
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| this thread is attracting incels like flies there's a multitude of reasons for higher suicide rates in men- they often use more violent methods to complete the act, and the intent behind it is usually stronger. It’s too simplistic to say women are willing to share their problems and men tend to bottle them up, though, even though toxic masculinity does play a huge part in why men are expected to repress their emotions. its not the fault of women, its the fault of how we as a society perpetuate toxic masculinity. its really interesting how i'm seeing people in this thread do the exact same thing, though. calling men pussies and being like "oh grandpa went to war man up" is LITERALLY why its a problem. gender role bullshit and trying to fit people into "girl have baby is emotional and men go work and be tough" is part of the issue. to the incels: maybe stop blaming women for your mental health issues and go to therapy. |
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konkelo said: Ryuk9428 said: I think male suicide rates are worse because females may be depressed at higher rates but male depression is more severe and hopeless when it does happen. Their suicide rates are higher than average. You don't find these kind of rates in most of Latin America, Middle Eastern, or African countries. See what you mention about Northern Europeans being less sociable, more of an expectation of independence, less emphasis on family all plays into my explanation that loneliness is the #1 cause of suicide and depression. Specifically I believe romantic loneliness to be the most severe kind. And I think that feminism fuels loneliness a lot through their message of women's independence. Compared to the Germans, Eastern Europeans, French, British and Irish? No Finland doesn't drink a lot. But it's higher than Sweden, Norway, and Iceland. Or maybe males don't identify symptoms early on and instead try to handle it on their own? See for yourself then. Also there's a possibility that few doctors in varying African countries have mentioned not every suicide might be reported and in regions that are in War suicides may not be counted. You explained feminism is making women forget about marriage and family, using that what-ever-websites-name as a support, causing male loneliness and that "traditional" gender roles can fix that and when they existed there wasn't such problem, and this is forgetting any feminism movement before that highlighted motherhood as most important thing in the World. But if Nordic countries already favored independence and not emphasis on strong family bonds beyond close relatives (even if that) where is the time when we were happy and feminism came and destroyed it? This also applying to Eastern European countries of course, since despite there not having been second wave feminism present most women still work and get high education when they're able. Nah, I don't take that not having romantic relationship is the most important breaking point to everyone. Most isolated youths and older ones I have listened to explain their lack of friends, some even had/has a significant one but due to tiny social circles and usually mental health causing problems in everyday life. Because people are different and some have different needs and wishes. Our alcohol consumption is average and the difference between Sweden is pretty small tbh. I can't say when the time Northern Europeans was happy would be. And as I said, I also would think it foolish to say that loneliness and suicide can only be caused by feminism. At this current moment, however, in European and North American countries, I think feminism is the primary idea system that is fueling it due to its message of women's independence. Traditional gender roles help by emphasizing the importance of marriage as well as providing a much easier system of courtship that is designed to be polite and unobjectionable to both the man and the woman, that isn't riddled with metaphorical land mines the way our progressive system is. In order to answer how feminism has fueled the loneliness crisis, one has to look at the fact that both men and women in the US, Canada, Western and Northern Europe are giving up on marriage and romantic relationships in bizarrely high numbers. This is not natural. None of this is occurring in southern Europe or Latin America. Coincidentally, the countries where people are giving up on such things have high suicide rates. There is nothing normal about large numbers of people deciding they don't want to experience what many consider to be the best part of life. This tells me that there is something about the way our cultures are currently setup that is making trying to find a romantic partner such a difficult and painful task that many people simply don't want to put themselves through it. The reason is because progressive ethics in regards to sex and romance result in exponentially higher rejection rates than traditional ethics do. Under progressive ethics, everyone is responsible for finding their own sexual partner, anyone is allowed to leave their sexual partner at any time for any reason, the public space, however, has become largely closed off as a place to meet people because of harassment concerns, the workplace has also been closed off because of "harassment" concerns. Even in bars and nightclubs, it's becoming more and more taboo to approach girls. Nowadays lots of people try to claim that bars and nightclubs should just be for general socializing or dancing rather than finding a sexual/romantic partner. So that leaves the question of where the hell can you find somebody? It seems the only acceptable place according to progressive ethics is the internet. Online dating, however, is an utter disaster for men resulting in hundreds of rejections as women are now choosing from a pool of hundreds or even thousands of applicants. Harassment and generally creepy behavior is significantly worse online than in real life so women get scared and start losing hope in online dating sites. The reason why traditional societal norms could fix this is because the source of all these problems really comes down to expecting too much independence and worrying too much about having a solution where nobody gets bothered by unwanted attention ever. This has resulted in a huge backfiring on women as they have to deal with way more aggressive behavior now than before as a result of men getting thirstier and thirstier. Traditional norms will place friends and family in charge of helping facilitate romantic relationships, it will open up the public places for acceptable flirtation, it will emphasize the importance of marriage and encourage people to partner up young instead of waiting until they are 30. We have nothing to gain from progressive gender norms. The only people who gain are corporations who can demand more and more involvement in the lives of their employees as people become increasingly dependent on them. |
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Ryuk9428 said: I can't say when the time Northern Europeans was happy would be. And as I said, I also would think it foolish to say that loneliness and suicide can only be caused by feminism. At this current moment, however, in European and North American countries, I think feminism is the primary idea system that is fueling it due to its message of women's independence. And I have an idea you can't tell, since you don't have any knowledge of Northern European cultures. I mean beyond the stereotype Finns drink. Oh the horror, women being independent. Feminism must have been behind that altogether I'm sure. Traditional gender roles help by emphasizing the importance of marriage as well as providing a much easier system of courtship that is designed to be polite and unobjectionable to both the man and the woman, that isn't riddled with metaphorical land mines the way our progressive system is. At first I though you spoke of something regarding law, but you just mean landing a date and proposing? Ok In order to answer how feminism has fueled the loneliness crisis, one has to look at the fact that both men and women in the US, Canada, Western and Northern Europe are giving up on marriage and romantic relationships in bizarrely high numbers. This is not natural. None of this is occurring in southern Europe or Latin America. Coincidentally, the countries where people are giving up on such things have high suicide rates. Yeah and a lot more other stuff going on too beside some not getting a cute gf/bf. Beside you cherry pick countries for your own explanation. Reason why in Northern Europe people don't get officially married is due to church harboring marriage institution and some are not ok with church and just because monetarily it's easier to not to. Usually those people are like minded and neither one wants marriage. Blaming that on feminism is absurd. There is nothing normal about large numbers of people deciding they don't want to experience what many consider to be the best part of life. This tells me that there is something about the way our cultures are currently setup that is making trying to find a romantic partner such a difficult and painful task that many people simply don't want to put themselves through it. Normal or not does it matter what other people decide to do? I mean you speak "decide" so I take it is by their own chose, thus it is not due to them being isolated of society. Don't know about that, some find some don't, there might be other problems hindering the person from trying to find romantic relationship. I don't personally care. The reason is because progressive ethics in regards to sex and romance result in exponentially higher rejection rates than traditional ethics do. Under progressive ethics, everyone is responsible for finding their own sexual partner, anyone is allowed to leave their sexual partner at any time for any reason, the public space, however, has become largely closed off as a place to meet people because of harassment concerns, the workplace has also been closed off because of "harassment" concerns. Even in bars and nightclubs, it's becoming more and more taboo to approach girls. Nowadays lots of people try to claim that bars and nightclubs should just be for general socializing or dancing rather than finding a sexual/romantic partner I can give you a hint, don't ever say "progressive/traditional ethics of sex and romance" to a woman because that's second most unromantic thing I can think of. Man that "progressive" ethic sure sounds nice though... Imagine being able to choose your own partner and being able to leave them when your relationship just ain't working. Wild. On serious note, dude chill. Sounds more like you are always in "fight or run" mode with women. Tinder can work for some people in finding a romantic partner or one night thing, I at least know few couples in my circles who managed to meet each other trough that. What is stopping anyone getting romantic partner trough first just socializing anyway? So that leaves the question of where the hell can you find somebody? It seems the only acceptable place according to progressive ethics is the internet. Online dating, however, is an utter disaster for men resulting in hundreds of rejections as women are now choosing from a pool of hundreds or even thousands of applicants. Harassment and generally creepy behavior is significantly worse online than in real life so women get scared and start losing hope in online dating sites. Still same places like before plus internet? Seriously don't think every woman is out there "you spoke to me so you sexually assaulted me" or looking down at men. That's one big ass heterogeneous group to generalize. The reason why traditional societal norms could fix this is because the source of all these problems really comes down to expecting too much independence and worrying too much about having a solution where nobody gets bothered by unwanted attention ever. This has resulted in a huge backfiring on women as they have to deal with way more aggressive behavior now than before as a result of men getting thirstier and thirstier. Which culture's traditional norms? And are you suggesting you can just go to Spain or Japan and stare at some woman's breast like you wouldn't be a creep and she wouldn't feel bothered, since you said those countries follow traditional gender roles or some shit. Traditional norms will place friends and family in charge of helping facilitate romantic relationships, it will open up the public places for acceptable flirtation, it will emphasize the importance of marriage and encourage people to partner up young instead of waiting until they are 30. We have nothing to gain from progressive gender norms. The only people who gain are corporations who can demand more and more involvement in the lives of their employees as people become increasingly dependent on them. This discussion really ain't about those male suicides, rather sounds more like your frustration rant on not getting anyone. Keep up there dude, maybe someday you'll find your partner. What goddamn norms are stopping friends introducing to someone new they think you'd like, or dare I say even parents through their circles. What issue is there for waiting till you're thirty-something until you actually meet some one you wanna be with. I don't know and maybe I won't as we clearly look at this whole relationship thing differently. Hola at me when we're back on those suicides. |
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konkelo said: Ryuk9428 said: I can't say when the time Northern Europeans was happy would be. And as I said, I also would think it foolish to say that loneliness and suicide can only be caused by feminism. At this current moment, however, in European and North American countries, I think feminism is the primary idea system that is fueling it due to its message of women's independence. And I have an idea you can't tell, since you don't have any knowledge of Northern European cultures. I mean beyond the stereotype Finns drink. Oh the horror, women being independent. Feminism must have been behind that altogether I'm sure. Traditional gender roles help by emphasizing the importance of marriage as well as providing a much easier system of courtship that is designed to be polite and unobjectionable to both the man and the woman, that isn't riddled with metaphorical land mines the way our progressive system is. At first I though you spoke of something regarding law, but you just mean landing a date and proposing? Ok In order to answer how feminism has fueled the loneliness crisis, one has to look at the fact that both men and women in the US, Canada, Western and Northern Europe are giving up on marriage and romantic relationships in bizarrely high numbers. This is not natural. None of this is occurring in southern Europe or Latin America. Coincidentally, the countries where people are giving up on such things have high suicide rates. Yeah and a lot more other stuff going on too beside some not getting a cute gf/bf. Beside you cherry pick countries for your own explanation. Reason why in Northern Europe people don't get officially married is due to church harboring marriage institution and some are not ok with church and just because monetarily it's easier to not to. Usually those people are like minded and neither one wants marriage. Blaming that on feminism is absurd. There is nothing normal about large numbers of people deciding they don't want to experience what many consider to be the best part of life. This tells me that there is something about the way our cultures are currently setup that is making trying to find a romantic partner such a difficult and painful task that many people simply don't want to put themselves through it. Normal or not does it matter what other people decide to do? I mean you speak "decide" so I take it is by their own chose, thus it is not due to them being isolated of society. Don't know about that, some find some don't, there might be other problems hindering the person from trying to find romantic relationship. I don't personally care. The reason is because progressive ethics in regards to sex and romance result in exponentially higher rejection rates than traditional ethics do. Under progressive ethics, everyone is responsible for finding their own sexual partner, anyone is allowed to leave their sexual partner at any time for any reason, the public space, however, has become largely closed off as a place to meet people because of harassment concerns, the workplace has also been closed off because of "harassment" concerns. Even in bars and nightclubs, it's becoming more and more taboo to approach girls. Nowadays lots of people try to claim that bars and nightclubs should just be for general socializing or dancing rather than finding a sexual/romantic partner I can give you a hint, don't ever say "progressive/traditional ethics of sex and romance" to a woman because that's second most unromantic thing I can think of. Man that "progressive" ethic sure sounds nice though... Imagine being able to choose your own partner and being able to leave them when your relationship just ain't working. Wild. On serious note, dude chill. Sounds more like you are always in "fight or run" mode with women. Tinder can work for some people in finding a romantic partner or one night thing, I at least know few couples in my circles who managed to meet each other trough that. What is stopping anyone getting romantic partner trough first just socializing anyway? So that leaves the question of where the hell can you find somebody? It seems the only acceptable place according to progressive ethics is the internet. Online dating, however, is an utter disaster for men resulting in hundreds of rejections as women are now choosing from a pool of hundreds or even thousands of applicants. Harassment and generally creepy behavior is significantly worse online than in real life so women get scared and start losing hope in online dating sites. Still same places like before plus internet? Seriously don't think every woman is out there "you spoke to me so you sexually assaulted me" or looking down at men. That's one big ass heterogeneous group to generalize. The reason why traditional societal norms could fix this is because the source of all these problems really comes down to expecting too much independence and worrying too much about having a solution where nobody gets bothered by unwanted attention ever. This has resulted in a huge backfiring on women as they have to deal with way more aggressive behavior now than before as a result of men getting thirstier and thirstier. Which culture's traditional norms? And are you suggesting you can just go to Spain or Japan and stare at some woman's breast like you wouldn't be a creep and she wouldn't feel bothered, since you said those countries follow traditional gender roles or some shit. Traditional norms will place friends and family in charge of helping facilitate romantic relationships, it will open up the public places for acceptable flirtation, it will emphasize the importance of marriage and encourage people to partner up young instead of waiting until they are 30. We have nothing to gain from progressive gender norms. The only people who gain are corporations who can demand more and more involvement in the lives of their employees as people become increasingly dependent on them. This discussion really ain't about those male suicides, rather sounds more like your frustration rant on not getting anyone. Keep up there dude, maybe someday you'll find your partner. What goddamn norms are stopping friends introducing to someone new they think you'd like, or dare I say even parents through their circles. What issue is there for waiting till you're thirty-something until you actually meet some one you wanna be with. I don't know and maybe I won't as we clearly look at this whole relationship thing differently. Hola at me when we're back on those suicides. I wasn't even aware there was a stereotype that Finnish drink a lot. I looked at a list of European countries by drinking rates, y'all are above other Northern European countries but below countries like France, Spain, and the UK. I don't know why you're getting so upset about this. You want to say the US is one of the fattest countries on Earth go ahead, its simply a factual statement. Finnish drinking rates really aren't all that relevant though so I'd suggest we move on. No, there's large numbers of people giving up on romantic relationships to begin with. Overwhelmingly, I do not believe that anyone would give up on them just because they don't feel like it. People give up on such things because of severe anxiety related to the process of trying to find a romantic partner. The fact that so many people are dropping out is a strong indication that the process has become too painful and needs to be changed. The reason for advocating traditional gender roles is because people in countries with traditional gender roles are not dropping out of romantic relationships at anywhere near the rates that people in progressive countries are. I personally know of 8 separate individuals who have been falsely accused of either sexual harassment or sexual assault and a further 5 individuals, in addition to the 8 I mentioned who may or may not have also received such accusations, who were called creepy for completely unwarranted reasons. My friend was called creepy just because he was fucking standing against the wall at a party. The guy is one of the nicest most passive guys I know and he got called creepy by some stupid bitch that I suppose expected him to step away because another girl happened to be dancing kind of close? So basically unless my friend acts like a complete cuck and moves out of the position he's been in for the past 15 minutes because a girl is starting to dance closer, he's a creep? Refer back to the part where I said "a manner of courtship deemed unobjectionable to both the man and the woman." Traditional ethics result in much lower rates of aggressive behavior on men's parts. The problem with progressive ethics is that they tell everybody what they can't do but provide no instructions as to what they can do. Any instructions they do provide are something incredibly vague and unhelpful like "just be yourself" or "it should happen naturally." The only people who provide any answers in a country with progressive norms are PUA groups, the Red Pill, and other manosphere type movements. Usually the advice given is to be an "aggressive alpha male" type persona. So because we've got half the male population listening to this stuff, we've also got an actual, widespread harassment problem on our hands because feminists never bothered to tell men a method they can actually use to pickup girls in a polite and unobjectionable manner, that also in-fact actually works. Alright since I'm gonna have to baby you through why being unable to find romantic partners is relevant to male suicide. Guy wants girlfriend. Guy can't find girlfriend. Guy gets called creepy and perhaps falsely accused in attempting to pursue such goal of finding girlfriend. Guy loses hope and becomes depressed. Guy gives up on romantic relationships in belief that what he's looking for is impossible to get. Guy is aware of the fact that other people will make fun of him if he cannot get a girlfriend so he claims to "lack interest." Guy becomes more and more depressed as a result of no girlfriend. Guy eventually commits suicide. I don't want to share too much personal information, but I've known a couple people who were driven to the point of attempting suicide because of hopeless, crushing loneliness. Those people have platonic friends, but they don't have a girlfriend. They were older than me but still close. How it is so difficult for people to comprehend that male depression and suicide might be related to frustration about your inability to find a girlfriend simply astonishes me. The biggest category that is cited for male suicide is "relationship difficulties." That should be enough to warrant major attention. Romantic relationships are the biggest source of happiness in human's lives. Anyone in a successful romantic relationship can tell you that there's nothing on Earth that will make you even remotely as happy as one. Not being able to find that happiness is going to create an enormous amount of frustration. As for why its a problem to wait until 30, because by the time men are 30 years old, they are already psychologically damaged beyond repair after going through all that rejection and frustration in their teens and 20s. One night stands and hookups are not fulfilling. I've heard of some guys that are in their mid 20s who haven't dated a girl since high school and their experience is limited to one night hookups. The women's independence movement caused this by telling women they don't need a guy and that they should focus on their careers instead or only get a guy when they've "established their career first." Men are emotionally dependent on women. This is not a bad thing, its actually a good thing because it helps our relationships be more satisfying when we do find one. Women are not emotionally dependent on men because many women are bisexual and can have those needs satisfied by other girls. It might not be as good as with men but a lot of people are willing to settle for what they consider an easier option even if it provides less happiness. Women, historically, have been financially dependent on men though. Men's resources and women's emotional nurturing made for strong relationships in the 1950s and 60s. But now women are financially independent from men which means women are independent but men are not. This also leads to women initiating 70-80% of divorces because "they don't need a man" and also being responsible for the majority of breakups in general. I'm not suggesting a men's independence movement like MGTOW, that would be awful. I'm not looking to detach from women the way feminists have done to men. I'm suggesting that a system where women appreciate the man they are with more because men provide them something that nobody else can, a stress free life where they don't have to work nearly as much but can still buy plenty of things for themselves. This will make women appreciate men just as much as men appreciate women who fulfill their emotional needs. |
Ryuk9428Sep 20, 2019 4:05 PM
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| @traed Alcohol seems to be a large factor in most situations, as you've pointed out in an earlier page. Social influence and settings may be others to some extent. I was checking research that also agrees with you. @impfunny Yes, one in particular I noticed likes to derive their own take from data the researchers themselves didn't get from it nor mention. Found that discussion redundant if someone willingly ignores and decides what their supplied sources should mean instead of what it actually says. |
SilverstormSep 20, 2019 6:37 PM
| "In the end the World really doesn't need a Superman. Just a Brave one" |
| males succeed in more suicides than women, and it’s a fucking problem. they feel like their feelings don’t matter and they can’t be weak. fuck this toxic masculinity man, it’s costing people lives. have some respect for anyone going through anything, no matter who or what they are. this thread did go somewhere bad though, but i just thought i’d leave my two cents. it’s not hard to be nice to someone. |
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Silverstorm said: @traed Alcohol seems to be a large factor in most situations, as you've pointed out in an earlier page. Social influence and settings may be others to some extent. I was checking research that also agrees with you. @impfunny Yes, one in particular I noticed likes to derive their own take from data the researchers themselves didn't get from it nor mention. Found that discussion redundant if someone willingly ignores and decides what their supplied sources should mean instead of what it actually says. It's quite difficult to determine if alcohol increased likelihood of attempting or dying from suicide or if it's simply that people who want to commit suicide often drink beforehand to try to calm their nerves. |
| Throughout my life, I know 4 people who commited suicide, all male. The reason though? Girls 1 classmate from college, suicide because of his girlfriend 1 schoolmate from college, had a fight with his girl and they supposedly broke up 1 mutual friend, got rejected by a girl 1 regular customer from a place I worked, I didn't know the reason, but his friends gossipped because of a girl. This leads to what OP said : heg said: social expectations or stereotypes is one contributing factor like just man up bro! be strong if youre a man so never show weakness or dont be soft Females when in relationship problems tend to tell their friends about it and get support. Whilst most males tend to keep it bottled up in themselves until they finally crack. Edit: I'm not implying that it's girl's fault or a gender issue. I'm simply implying that men needs to be more open about their feelings and people should learn to love themselves first. |
-ShinzoSep 20, 2019 9:53 PM
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SpamuraiSensei said: Snowflakes melt under pressure. Your grandfathers that were storming the beaches of Normandy at age 20 are laughing their asses off. snowflakes don't just commit suicide because of pressure. snowflakes just complain and act like they have depression whenever life doesn't go their way. |
Ryuk9428 said: I'm suggesting that a system where women appreciate the man they are with more because men provide them something that nobody else can, a stress free life where they don't have to work nearly as much but can still buy plenty of things for themselves. This will make women appreciate men just as much as men appreciate women who fulfill their emotional needs. this has to be cultural and come from the " society " or from tradiations or w/e like how girls are supposed to ask the guy they like out in japan or give him chocolate (or at least in anime LOL) it's a tradition or was a tradition and it's stuff like this that can solve the problem, having a tradition or some excuse to approach people you like and making the girls do it so that it's not always the guys having to take the first step. That's why romance and shoujo animes are great and so are fairy tales and they are full of hope and how things should be if something like this became a thing in the west it would obviously be a great plus anyway i skimmed through most of the posts and for the most part you're right but really male suicide is a problem in the west and in more capitalistic countries and the reason for that is the system we live in and not our gender the system we live in is completely manipulated by people with agenda (click my signature) and they WANT this to happen and that's why its happening its NOT random, it's not by chance or by " multiple random factors " it's engineered and its INTENTIONAL  there are people waking up, there are videos analyzing these things, there is my signature and there are more information compilations. Everything is connected feminism/empowerment if women is connected to belittling men, to pushing SJW/PC culture so that it's hard to talk about issues (if you have a censorship on everything you can just leave what you like and take out what you dont and that's how moderation works basically), pushing careers for young people / colleges and universities (which are one of the biggest evils in the west right now as they are completely corrupted and basically brainwash machines) are preaching " no children " thing which makes young women not look for a serious relationship in their earlier ages while guys have a biological/psychological need so it results in them suffering and being depressed it's pretty connected  it's not something that just happened, it's been happening since media exists, it's been happening from before WW2 and was part of why even WW2 happened (there are speeches in which you can hear them talk about media control and propaganda and trying to turn people against their nation) people who think this is random or men should just " man up " are completely ignorant and incredibly short-sighted and not thinking straight or seeing the big picture, as a grown man when you see all this you think it's BS and it is but as a kid that's growing up stuff like this affects you GREATLY. I remember how i was in my teen years and even back then i saw something is happening and while i *now* have almost complete clarity with the world and with myself and with my feelings , i'm still impacted as it impacted my relationships with other people and in a sense got me to where i am now Never underestimate the effect misinformation and lies can have on kids or younger people. It might seem harmless and it might even be harmless at times because the truth can dispel it but at the same time it might change someone forever. The young mind is essentially being programmed for the life ahead of it and this programming is going to last until you get old and die so it's very important for this programming to be good. People can change and people can evolve but your early years are the most important years, and most mental disorders are also developed because of events at younger ages so there's that as well |
incisorrSep 20, 2019 9:24 PM
lots of music -  |
| @incisorr Man there are some bridges to connect here somewhere with that last post. Just cast aside the white women and let them ruin another race. A worthy female would not be so easily brainwashed in the first place, so they (whichever myriad group is out to get us) are doing us a favor genetically in the long run. |
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| @incisorr Interesting, you make a good case that this might be intentional. I've always thought of it as a collective effort by a horde of lunatics. I have suspected before that feminism was a corporate conspiracy to pay people less for more productivity. I've heard teachers say to my parents though that their bosses have told them to "make sure women and minorities succeed." The sheer desperation that the liberals had to take down Donald Trump was suspicious as well. They literally broke into Trump campaign member's houses with SWAT teams and threatened them, trying to find some kind of dirt that they could use to take down Trump. I completely agree with you that colleges have become total brainwashing facilities. A former roommate of mine took a class with a professor who literally didn't even teach the class, all he taught was SJW horseshit. The first day of class apparently he walked along the front row and starting pointing at each of the girls and said "you're safe," to 3 of them, stopped at the fourth one and said "you'll be raped." And went on about how girls can't trust any guys, and that we're all potential rapists. I made a blogpost recently, you might want to check it out, documenting all the PC propaganda I've seen just in three weeks of returning to college. I feel like SJWs are really sneaky prudes. They disguise their attempt to strangle our sex lives by pretending they're the ones for sexual openness but what they're really doing is destroying relationships and trying to make it too painful for anyone to pursue them. There's a lot of stuff about what the wrong thing to do is but progressives never give any instructions on how a guy should approach a girl. It would be very nice if girls could approach guys, or at least, we had a built in cultural excuse to approach girls in a way that cannot be seen as aggressive or creepy. The problem is that we've become so obsessed with independence and informality that we don't have any procedures anymore. We've been lied to and told we should appreciate this because we have so much "freedom" now when really we're fucking lost and don't know what to do. The freedom to have long dry spells doesn't sound like a very good freedom to me. I don't know who that Japanese woman is but give her a fucking medal. Her husband is a very lucky man. I'd love to find a woman like her. |
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| I feel the suiciside rate of a society is a pretty good measurer of that society's quality. Both from a systematic and cultural standpoint. Unlike Mr. Survival of the fittest here, I don't agree that suicide is a good thing but I do believe people have a right to commit it, as they do with anything solely involving their own bodies. |
HyperLSep 20, 2019 10:28 PM
| You are not your body, you are your brain, the "self" that emerges from within it. |
cipheron said: Gun availability is a definite factor--thats what most gun deaths are in the US (self-inflicted suicide) and alcohol as well in conjunction enables negative reactions with less feelings/and self control. They're not the causes but definitely make it more readily primed to occur and successful. Why some link it to violent ways men go about it is due to the "toxic ideas of masculinity" which promote gun use by men more so than women. That complex issue is still complex in academic circles--its not until general people hijack the meanings to something simple.traed said: It's quite difficult to determine if alcohol increased likelihood of attempting or dying from suicide or if it's simply that people who want to commit suicide often drink beforehand to try to calm their nerves. That could be testable. If you look at places where they had short-term alcohol bans and see if the suicide rate was impacted, you could be pretty certain of a causative connection. Of course, something like prohibition wouldn't be good data, because there was stuff like bootlegging and crime rising, but places with short-term bans on alcohol sales would be. EDIT: for the same reason, we know that gun availability is a big factor, despite some pro-gun arguments to the contrary. Israel used to let conscripts take guns home on the weekend. They stopped doing this around 2005. There was a 40% drop in *total* suicides, but entirely restricted to weekends. The weekday suicide rate didn't change. |
| "In the end the World really doesn't need a Superman. Just a Brave one" |
Ryuk9428 said: I don't know why you're getting so upset about this. So me pointing out alcohol consumption is average compared to European countries shows I'm upset? And drinking culture has as much relevance as you going on about progressive/traditional ethics here, since I brought up it as one possible reason why male suicide is high in Northern Europe. I only corrected you Finland's and Sweden's alcohol consumption doesn't have major difference. But if you mean my first remark "And I have an idea you can't tell, since you don't have any knowledge of Northern European cultures", there's a simple reason why I said that. You tried to reason your stand and "enemy" that you have made trough your own life experience using other countries as some example to verify it, but in truth you don't know anything about them. Not traditional roles nor history of feminism in those countries, which is quite obvious to someone who is from your feminist country. You dismissed my point entirely that same rates are not exclusive to Europe and other regions have suicide problems too. Then there's that trying to make your point more legit by miss interpreting a report to fit your needs. But when it was pointed to you you just simply brushed it off. Third probably being your view that all women in the World would rather be stay-at-home mothers and financially be dependent on their husband, reason why women are depressed. Only thing that actually stops women is feminism ideology pushed on them. Yeah, sure. Alright since I'm gonna have to baby you through why being unable to find romantic partners is relevant to male suicide. You don't need to. I didn't claim not having romantic relationship can't lead to loneliness and that way influence mental health. I simply disagree that would be the biggest and critical reason leading many dudes deciding to kill themselves. On that note even if we were trying to fix that lack of romantic relationships by bringing traditional roles back, or as you have explained women be emotional at home and men go to work, I disagree that would work. I don't want to share too much personal information Then don't. Honestly if we start to just bring up our own life stories and close people here to prove a point it won't lead to anything. Same way I can go and pick stories that have shaped my opinion for what reason? For other to dismiss it or regard it as "that's just exception to the rule". Anyway hope your friends are now days doing better. Depression is fucking awful and so are suicidal thoughts. Men are emotionally dependent on women. Maybe men should try to build meaningful emotional relationships with their friends to share their problems with each other. Women are not emotionally dependent on men because many women are bisexual and can have those needs satisfied by other girls. So now it's sexual thing if you tell how your day went or how bad was your break-up? |
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Ryuk9428 said: Quoted for truth with rare exceptions.Men are emotionally dependent on women. konkelo said: How do you build "meaningful emotional relationships" and even make "friends" when there is either a lack of mutual interest or you eventually get ditched?Maybe men should try to build meaningful emotional relationships with their friends to share their problems with each other. You can feel like you're best buddies with some girl/woman and still have the other person suddenly become more distanced towards you. Not sure who it was and where, but someone wrote that just with 20 minutes or so a day of their time, girls/women can easily add to the mental health of guys. impfunny said: The issue is not whether or not males "man up", the problem is that females don't "(wo)man up" and tell the guys right away and straightforwardly when there is something that makes them (feel) uncomfortable. They also tend to run away from conflict instead of facing the issues they have with others and in general. Though to be fair, that is a general problem that many people drop connections or even bonds just because of some argument or some other minor things.calling men pussies and being like "oh grandpa went to war man up" is LITERALLY why its a problem. gender role bullshit and trying to fit people into "girl have baby is emotional and men go work and be tough" is part of the issue. -Shinzo said: Even if they tell others about it, it doesn't amount to anything when they don't directly face their traumas/issues/whatever. Also, sympathy and empathy alone don't make for support. Besides, rather than talking to unrelated third parties about each other, people should talk directly to the other involved person. But girls/women tend to be too nice/polite and "keep it bottled up in themselves until they finally crack."Females when in relationship problems tend to tell their friends about it and get support. Whilst most males tend to keep it bottled up in themselves until they finally crack. |
NoboruSep 21, 2019 5:28 AM
Soverign said: @incisorr Man there are some bridges to connect here somewhere with that last post. Just cast aside the white women and let them ruin another race. A worthy female would not be so easily brainwashed in the first place, so they (whichever myriad group is out to get us) are doing us a favor genetically in the long run. i don't think women are entirely guilty, yes it is their fault but pointing fingers and blaming does no good for actually solving the problem and you just end up wasting your time- which is what i've learned over the years. If you want to make things succeed then you must learn to " forgive " people's mistakes but those mistakes must be understood and acknowledged at some time women are different biologically since they can go through motherhood and also women seem to have more empathy and are more gullible but the system is trying to corrupt their virtues into flaws, and is succeeding. It's hard to blame a kid and many girls are being brainwashed from an early age from tv and from pc and what not at the end of the day it's men that allowed this to happen in our earlier generations and now in our later generations our men have been raised differently and our men are essentially stripped of their "fangs" now. We don't have the same fight in us as previous generations did and all that was intentional and has been silently programmed on the background by everything you see in life, this whole " everybody is a winner " mentality is a good proof of that and this mentality might seem like something unrelated/random as well but it is not - my brother had a certificate for participating in some contest even tho he didn't win which was funny but they were trying to make him feel good about himself The only thing is that in today's day and age the internet is still not censored and if you want to you can find information and you can sort of open your mind so being ignorant is your fault and that's where most women stop. Most of them are too busy with real life to even question the system so they end up just living the life that seems to give them more attention than men and most of them don't even care about the truth and in this regard then yes they are guilty , and lastly, all girls have a father as well so the way a girl is raised is extremely important and teaching her about life from an early age is the parent's responsibility and that's why you can't fully blame women, cus there were men that let the ball slip as well and cus they didn't do their duty as leaders and as parents the thing is it's only the west that's corrupted like this and not other countries, not india or africa or some of the asian countries which aren't under influences as big as the west and that's because the people who have these agendas cannot sneak up in the governments and in positions of power and leadership in other countries as easily as they could here in the west, because they look physically different but they look closes to white people so they snuck in NA/EU leadership positions generations ago before the internet existed and before we could research people's background as easily btw since this is an anime site and we watch anime - if u guys have actually bothered watching some romance animes u might have seen how their approach is different and the stories they portray in here are different and i believe at least in the past in Japan they didn't have the problem we have now because their culture promoted women to seek and appreciate men but now Japan is trying to copy the west too hard (and they're not doing a good job at copying it so they emphasize on the bad things) so they are also falling into this massive problem konkelo said: I simply disagree that would be the biggest and critical reason leading many dudes deciding to kill themselves. you can disagree all you want but it's still the reason why and it's still the truth so i guess that makes you wrong even women are starting to acknowledge that this is the reason as you can literally see on the video |
| lots of music - |
incisorr said: You based your real life outlook on the dynamics from an anime--thats enough to question on it's own for validity but you also say something is the truth--but its not as simple as that or this would not be a thread. Soverign said: @incisorr Man there are some bridges to connect here somewhere with that last post. Just cast aside the white women and let them ruin another race. A worthy female would not be so easily brainwashed in the first place, so they (whichever myriad group is out to get us) are doing us a favor genetically in the long run. i don't think women are entirely guilty, yes it is their fault but pointing fingers and blaming does no good for actually solving the problem and you just end up wasting your time- which is what i've learned over the years. If you want to make things succeed then you must learn to " forgive " people's mistakes but those mistakes must be understood and acknowledged at some time women are different biologically since they can go through motherhood and also women seem to have more empathy and are more gullible but the system is trying to corrupt their virtues into flaws, and is succeeding. It's hard to blame a kid and many girls are being brainwashed from an early age from tv and from pc and what not at the end of the day it's men that allowed this to happen in our earlier generations and now in our later generations our men have been raised differently and our men are essentially stripped of their "fangs" now. We don't have the same fight in us as previous generations did and all that was intentional and has been silently programmed on the background by everything you see in life, this whole " everybody is a winner " mentality is a good proof of that and this mentality might seem like something unrelated/random as well but it is not - my brother had a certificate for participating in some contest even tho he didn't win which was funny but they were trying to make him feel good about himself The only thing is that in today's day and age the internet is still not censored and if you want to you can find information and you can sort of open your mind so being ignorant is your fault and that's where most women stop. Most of them are too busy with real life to even question the system so they end up just living the life that seems to give them more attention than men and most of them don't even care about the truth and in this regard then yes they are guilty konkelo said: I simply disagree that would be the biggest and critical reason leading many dudes deciding to kill themselves. you can disagree all you want but it's still the reason why and it's still the truth so i guess that makes you wrong Not to mention the "it's a west" thing is because those nations you referenced as not west, have historically and only recently started reporting (meaning they underreport suicide for various cultural/moral reasons) the majority of them--means they still dont take actual account of it. That alone is enough for anyone viewing your post to give pause in its consideration. Just pointing out how it could be seen as inaccurate |
SilverstormSep 21, 2019 7:45 AM
| "In the end the World really doesn't need a Superman. Just a Brave one" |
| @incisorr Dude... hypergamy is color blind. What incels and white nationalists fail to realise is something MGTOW figured out a long time ago. NAWALT (yes they are, your Japanese girl example is an appeal to white men and you even made the classic incel mistake of saying her husband is soooooo lucky, not she is lucky). Male and female hypergamy is different. Women always attempt to date up the social ladder snagging a charming rich doctor or prince or what have you. Men always try to date a female that is more attractive a supermodel or what have you. The problem is, white women have been so over valued and classed their value so high as literally only a Emperor is worthy of a four or five. An eight or nine? Is she going to marry Jesus because literally only mythological figures are in their range at this point, which is where the unhappiness thing and not being able to find a 'good'man comes from. |
|
| @Noboru It seems that you didn't get my point. Noboru said: Also, sympathy and empathy alone don't make for support. It's not about sympathy nor empathy. It's about someone being there to listen to you and letting it out. Trust me, that is enough support for someone who is in need to be heard. Be it friends, family or a relationship. Noboru said: If you understand what I said in my previous post, this applies to males as well. and tell right away and straightforwardly when there is something that makes them (feel) uncomfortable. They also tend to run away from conflict instead of facing the issues they have with others and in general Those who won't communicate in a relationship is a sign of a red flag. Having a relationship with someone who gets upset with you, but refuses to explain why they are upset in explicit detail to work things out is a big pain in the ass. Back to my previous post : Let yourself be heard, and have self-love. |
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| @-Shinzo Maybe not, but let me try ^^ Being there for someone to listen sounds like sympathy. And while conversation therapies are a thing, there is a difference between just being able to talk to unrelated people about things and being able to face the issues directly. Just because people can feel better when talking to others about it, it doesn't mean that their issues get magically solved. They won't for as long as they are not facing them. Or at most, talking to others and relating with their problems can make your own issues feel irrelevant so you simply stop caring. I don't deny that it applies to males as well, though it's more likely for females than for males to make hard cutoffs with their relations to others. Agreed. Communication (and more so: direct one) is the Alpha and Omega for every healthy relationship. You don't necessarily have to love yourself for others to love you, but you need to be receptive to the love if you want love. And being heard by the person directly or by a middle man/woman is way more effective than just talking to others about each other and not doing anything to resolve a potential argument. |
Noboru said: Being there for someone to listen sounds like sympathy. And while conversation therapies are a thing, there is a difference between just being able to talk to unrelated people about things and being able to face the issues directly. What I'm implying is that there doesn't always need to be a problem and it doesn't always need to be a relationship problem either. Your boss in work is an ass, you had an off day, your dog died, you just broke up with a lover, your father died. Can you solve these things? No right? If you ever had a girlfriend, I'm pretty sure she tells you all these things, even little things that upsets her. This is what I was implying about. Again, being heard is enough support for someone. I have a friend, he's like the bad boy of the group, but his girlfriend broke up with him years ago. Yet even to now, sometimes when we drink, he'll cry infront of us (yeah that's how close we friends are) telling us how much he misses her. Can he fix it? No. Did he just want to let his feelings out? Well, you decide. Do you know any other guy who cries infront of his friends about problems? Do you tell your friends about your problems? Now do you know any girls who does? Well, I'm pretty sure you know a lot of girls who does. Noboru said: You don't necessarily have to love yourself for others to love you, but you need to be receptive to the love if you want love. You are correct, you don't need to love yourself for others to love you. But loving yourself is the key to a successful relationship. Now again, I'm not saying that you should love yourself and be a selfish asshole, that's not what self-love means. Self-love means that you are a "Complete person" before entering a relationship. Meaning, you won't have the qualities of a co-dependent person, which many "nice guys" have. Now onto my first post again. Noboru said: Just because people can feel better when talking to others about it, it doesn't mean that their issues get magically solved. They won't for as long as they are not facing them. Edit : I'm not denying your statement, as it is correct and I agree. If a relationship has a problem, it should be fixed by communicating with the other person, not having other party's join the chaos. I'm only making my point clear about Being heard, someone being there to listen and self-love. |
-ShinzoSep 21, 2019 10:51 AM
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konkelo said: Ryuk9428 said: I don't know why you're getting so upset about this. So me pointing out alcohol consumption is average compared to European countries shows I'm upset? And drinking culture has as much relevance as you going on about progressive/traditional ethics here, since I brought up it as one possible reason why male suicide is high in Northern Europe. I only corrected you Finland's and Sweden's alcohol consumption doesn't have major difference. But if you mean my first remark "And I have an idea you can't tell, since you don't have any knowledge of Northern European cultures", there's a simple reason why I said that. You tried to reason your stand and "enemy" that you have made trough your own life experience using other countries as some example to verify it, but in truth you don't know anything about them. Not traditional roles nor history of feminism in those countries, which is quite obvious to someone who is from your feminist country. You dismissed my point entirely that same rates are not exclusive to Europe and other regions have suicide problems too. Then there's that trying to make your point more legit by miss interpreting a report to fit your needs. But when it was pointed to you you just simply brushed it off. Third probably being your view that all women in the World would rather be stay-at-home mothers and financially be dependent on their husband, reason why women are depressed. Only thing that actually stops women is feminism ideology pushed on them. Yeah, sure. Alright since I'm gonna have to baby you through why being unable to find romantic partners is relevant to male suicide. You don't need to. I didn't claim not having romantic relationship can't lead to loneliness and that way influence mental health. I simply disagree that would be the biggest and critical reason leading many dudes deciding to kill themselves. On that note even if we were trying to fix that lack of romantic relationships by bringing traditional roles back, or as you have explained women be emotional at home and men go to work, I disagree that would work. I don't want to share too much personal information Then don't. Honestly if we start to just bring up our own life stories and close people here to prove a point it won't lead to anything. Same way I can go and pick stories that have shaped my opinion for what reason? For other to dismiss it or regard it as "that's just exception to the rule". Anyway hope your friends are now days doing better. Depression is fucking awful and so are suicidal thoughts. Men are emotionally dependent on women. Maybe men should try to build meaningful emotional relationships with their friends to share their problems with each other. Women are not emotionally dependent on men because many women are bisexual and can have those needs satisfied by other girls. So now it's sexual thing if you tell how your day went or how bad was your break-up? Being friends with men isn't enough, its more of a cope really. Men need the sexual component of relationships with girls. A lot of girls turn their friendships into a sexual thing stemming from an emotional bond. A lot of girls first sexual experiences are with other girls these days. I'm sure you could talk to plenty of Americans that don't think feminism has been a bad thing for our country. One thing I've learned is that people have pretty different interpretations of how their country is going. Generally though, if one was raised in an environment where people were taught to believe something like feminism is a good thing, they will believe it is. In America, the same situation applies where most people cannot see the negative effects of it. |
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| this really turned into incels are suicidal huh, i was expecting economic factors more lol but a lot of incels are employed though so to me just get a 3rd world girlfriend or waifu, i see a lot of retired military white men here in the philippines doing just that and lol at the japanese woman comment on that screenshot when japanese women are also picky anyway just look at how japan have a sex crisis today or being single epidemic |
Yes, how dare we not do our roles as jobless mothers to single career seeking people, that's just awful. We shouldn't do that as, unlike men we can't function without a plethora of safety nets. I wonder if this was under a MGTOW comment section. |
heg said: Its probably cause incels are the ones in the thread buttressing this idea with wordings essentially cry-outs of "poor me".this really turned into incels are suicidal huh, i was expecting economic factors more lol but a lot of incels are employed though so to me just get a 3rd world girlfriend or waifu I know of more people that have been married w/families in occupations with access to firearms that killed themselves in a violent manner than the incel whose low self-esteem (caused by whatever societal factors they attribute to mythical gender/character traits) causes them to lash out at others instead of taking themselves out. The irony is impressive. |
| "In the end the World really doesn't need a Superman. Just a Brave one" |
| I figured this thread would turn into some lazy incel nonsense, as my initial post indicated, but I'm still disappointed. @Ryuk9428 you realize the person you agree with is a troll right? lol |
 I can see you |
Silverstorm said: heg said: Its probably cause incels are the ones in the thread buttressing this idea with wordings essentially cry-outs of "poor me".this really turned into incels are suicidal huh, i was expecting economic factors more lol but a lot of incels are employed though so to me just get a 3rd world girlfriend or waifu I know of more people that have been married w/families in occupations with access to firearms that killed themselves in a violent manner than the incel whose low self-esteem (caused by whatever societal factors they attribute to mythical gender/character traits) causes them to lash out at others instead of taking themselves out. The irony is impressive. thats a good point and like i said the incels are more angry than suicidal suicidal are more harming themselves first angry people are more harming others first Peaceful_Critic said: heg said: I don't think it's a real Japanese woman. Take note of how the introduction is one of the only things in broken English and how most of the comment has perfect English("Shame on all of you for creating such a toxic western enviorment..") with advanced words like "plethora" and "coddled" thrown in. The person who wrote this has great English skills on par with those at college or late high school level. That introduction is undoubtedly fake. this really turned into incels are suicidal huh, i was expecting economic factors more lol but a lot of incels are employed though so to me just get a 3rd world girlfriend or waifu, i see a lot of retired military white men here in the philippines doing just that and lol at the japanese woman comment on that screenshot when japanese women are also picky anyway just look at how japan have a sex crisis today or being single epidemic ye that could be it too although obviously there are japanese people that have very good english skills and japanese women being picky is just the side effect of a competitive environment that capitalism brings anyway |
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