Vinland Saga
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LalatinaDarkness said: KANLen09 said: FINALLY! THANK YOU HorribleSubs FOR PUTTING EXCLAMATION MARKS! Took you THIS long to exclaim in wording...what a wimp to those doing the subbing without it, not knowing how much impact it does. Anyways, we get to see a momentary flashback between Thors and Thorfinn, albeit a different moment in time, but with the same feelings and emotions in memory. Seems that Thorfinn just wanted to honour his dad's legacy. Plus, the rape scene in the manga is just the moment of accord, and I don't really think that this would transition well into the TV for more than just censoring reasons. May I know is the rape scene really necessary? I just read some manga readers (redditors for example) didn't like/was disappointed at the decision to remove the rape scene as it was an impactful moment that'll make thorfinn's character development more satisfying later on. Please enlighten me, what's your take on this? From a manga standpoint, it helps give more character to Thorfinn being illicit on his ignorance about the issues around him, even to someone being raped in front of his eyes. From an anime standpoint, more than just cutting that portion out due to TV censoring issues, I felt that it was a very brief moment of time (like say a good amount of 30 seconds will do if added into this episode). I too, understand that it is a very heavy (and disappointing) impact to fans of the manga, but anime isn't perfect, and some things, not just for the sake of content, had to be cut for legit reasons that I (or we) wouldn't know. Now having watched the anime (and hopefully read the manga), like to hear your views on this. |
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| Is that one crybaby still throwing a fit over the supposed "lack of realism" in this show? Like buddy, literally the first episode of this show started with Thorkell cutting clean through multiple men with one swing of an axe and don't even get me started on Thors. This seres both anime and manga never once presents itself as historically accurate so I'm not sure why you feel so betrayed over something that never was. What's even more amazing than superhuman vikings is him coming into a series that he apparently hates every week, spouting some "criticism" while acting like he's smart and then ignoring or moving goalposts when people actually shut his supposed criticisms down. This whole thing is beyond hilarious. |
| This episode felt a lot calmer and slower than previous episodes, but it captured the feeling of the calm before the storm, though. Thorfinn's dream sequence was rather nice, with all of his family and friends present. Even in a dream like this, hearing Thors saying to Thorfinn to stop his quest for revenge must've shook Thorfinn to the core, thus waking up from his dream while shouting "Father!". Thorkell, the madlad, is at it again, throwing sizeable rocks with relative ease while trying to bait the viking soldiers to resume battle against him. Just in case certain viewers start complaining about why he has five fingers again and blame it on an animation error, you can clearly see that Thorkell re-attached the two little fingers that were sliced off in his battle against Thorfinn. I'm surprised some people missed something that was easy to spot. =/ Either way, Thorkell was able to capture Canute and is now going after the main army, so Askeladd is now hyped up to stopping Thorkell and rescuing Canute, in his main goal of obtaining more money and treasure. I did like the whole scene with Askeladd talking to Thorfinn about the Roman empire and the Saxon, while also mentioning about the dawn of the twilight. Pretty good and motivational, if you ask me. =) |
GreenEmu said: Is that one crybaby still throwing a fit over the supposed "lack of realism" in this show? Like buddy, literally the first episode of this show started with Thorkell cutting clean through multiple men with one swing of an axe and don't even get me started on Thors. This seres both anime and manga never once presents itself as historically accurate so I'm not sure why you feel so betrayed over something that never was. What's even more amazing than superhuman vikings is him coming into a series that he apparently hates every week, spouting some "criticism" while acting like he's smart and then ignoring or moving goalposts when people actually shut his supposed criticisms down. This whole thing is beyond hilarious. I mean I'm an anime only and even I know this is titled as Vinland SAGA for that reason. Sagas are always exaggerated when it comes to their heroes' superhuman strengths. So I too, think the criticisms are ridiculous and the critics are smartass wannabes. |
AbsurdistOtaku said: I really forgot just how many quiet, emotional, moments there were in this arc in the manga. I absolutely love how this series can balance a dark, violent, gritty story about war, with these more emotional moments, without coming off as too dramatic. I'm gong to be honest: I feel like this anime has better drama than some of the full-blown drama I've watched (Angel Beats, Violet Evergarden especially). Askeladd's conversation with Thorfinn was pretty interesting: the subtext of what he was saying was that conquerors will be conquered just like the people they originally conquered; it's a never ending cycle. If this adaptation keeps things up this way, and if a 2nd season is guaranteed, then I think this anime may be my 2nd favorite, or even my #1 favorite anime of all time. Meta_Yoshi said: Thorfinn's dream sequence was rather nice, with all of his family and friends present. Even in a dream like this, hearing Thors saying to Thorfinn to stop his quest for revenge must've shook Thorfinn to the core, thus waking up from his dream while shouting "Father!". I can't help but feel that was a representation of Thorfinn's inner self having doubts about whether he should get revenge or not. I mean, dreams are pretty reflective of our inner desires. KANLen09 said: From a manga standpoint, it helps give more character to Thorfinn being illicit on his ignorance about the issues around him, even to someone being raped in front of his eyes. From an anime standpoint, more than just cutting that portion out due to TV censoring issues, I felt that it was a very brief moment of time (like say a good amount of 30 seconds will do if added into this episode). I too, understand that it is a very heavy (and disappointing) impact to fans of the manga, but anime isn't perfect, and some things, not just for the sake of content, had to be cut for legit reasons that I (or we) wouldn't know. Now having watched the anime (and hopefully read the manga), like to hear your views on this. I agree, the rape scene was great at establishing just how disconnected Thorfinn is from the atrocities around him, more than we already see him be. But as a manga reader, I don't mind that much that the rape scene wasn't shown in the anime, because we still have a great idea how disconnected Thorfinn's mind is from everything else. Oof @AbsurdistOtaku I hear your heart cries out for the minority, just like me. Like, I really understand that this series is long-awaited to be anime material, but even the greatest of greats can't have everything fit into the small screen, like for the love of God, "WHY you leave this out, blah blah blah blah blah..." And this speculation is what's bad about the anime community nowadays, fanboys and girls wanting adaptations proper and just to the origin sources. Even I have series that I desperately want specific scenes to be shown (and it didn't get shown), and I totally understand from the viewpoint of the production teams handling the various projects. It ain't a 100% adaptation (unless people call it out like the new Fruits Basket). This is just so uncalled for. |
KANLen09Sep 16, 2019 7:47 AM
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| @Daniel_Naumov I mean you've been repeating the same criticisms in regards to the combat in this series from episode 1 onwards so it most definitely is a coherent story lol. I looked up what a story needs to contain to be considered historical fiction and this has it all. Well thought-out battles is quality storytelling and this series doesn't have much of it, but I disagree that it's detracting from the rest of the story. Some of the characters being OP doesn't necessarily have a big impact on the story, there's always little bits of details explaining the loss or victory of a battle, they aren't decided by a singular character's presence (Like Thorkell having 500 of his own men with him). It's more a creative choice to showcase the difference in strength between the fodder and big dogs in an epic way. Well that's my view at least, while there are are some moments of superhuman strength, the outcome of battles are logical and there's nothing wrong with them. Kimurah said: Marrone said: None of your points are actual criticisms. Week in week out there are clowns on here making generic disses thinking its criticism. Go on sakugabooru to see the sakuga in this episode especially thorkell and his men. 'static shots' lol. And there's always fanboys crying and squealing "wah wah your complains aren't criticism, stop shitting on muh perfect animuh" Also funny that you claim that my complains are generic disses, yet you use a very by the book butthurt retort I've heard so many times in this site "none of your points are actual criticisms" go fetch a dictionary and look for the word "irony" before you use the word generic as a peyorative. Askeladd is a perfect example of a wannabe character, cool looking on the outside, but as deep as a puddle with his quotes out of a cheap self motivational book out of amazon. LOL, go on sakugabooru? get some new eyes and a functional brain, the most impactuful shots were still shots with speedlines, and you didn't even have a proper retort for me pointing out that they reused footage from previous episodes to pad out a flashback sequence. Nice try kiddo, go cry in a corner with all your butthurt But there was... the battle consisted of both static shots and animated sequences. Yet your critique is ''to make it look like it has movement'', you're not saying anything logical. Reusing footage for flashbacks is common in anime and pointing out that out isn't really impressive, nor does there exist or is there need for a justification other than that it made sense to show it again for like 10 seconds to complement the scene in question. Your criticism of Askeladd is even worse, you're basically insulting him and not really letting anyone know what your thought process is that makes you dislike him. You saying that his character only consists of pretentious quotes isn't constructive critique bro, but shallow slandering because you hate this series. Don't pretend you expect discussion to come forth when you yourself don't mind using generic insults to downplay the depth of a character. |
EsquirtitSep 16, 2019 8:56 AM
| poop |
| I love how cruel and evil the Vikings are. Humans are awful creatures no matter what times we have. |
| Man, this was probably the most beautiful episode yet. I could sit and watch these characters stare at landscapes for hours and not get bored. I don't know if it was just me being tired from my first day at uni, but I just kept on getting lost in it and losing track of time. If it can keep up this level of quality for the next cour (and then on and on forever), I'll be a happy ladd. EDIT: For a poor anime only boi like me, can someone please explain why people are complaining about sjw's again. Every time this happens it's always over something stupid |
ChilliePeppersSep 16, 2019 10:55 AM
A_Sad_Dust_Cloud said: Man, this was probably the most beautiful episode yet. I could sit and watch these characters stare at landscapes for hours and not get bored. I don't know if it was just me being tired from my first day at uni, but I just kept on getting lost in it and losing track of time. If it can keep up this level of quality for the last two episodes (and then on and on forever), I'll be a happy ladd. EDIT: For a poor anime only boi like me, can someone please explain why people are complaining about sjw's again. Every time this happens it's always over something stupid In this episode, you can see that Thorfinn wakes up and leaves the place he was sleeping att, because of a nightmare. In the manga the reason why he leaves is kinda darker. When he wakes up, he sees three guys from the Askelads group about to rape an english woman. They even asked if he also wants to do it too, but Thorfinn leaves. We don't see her getting raped, but there would be complains about it. |
NotFred said: A_Sad_Dust_Cloud said: Man, this was probably the most beautiful episode yet. I could sit and watch these characters stare at landscapes for hours and not get bored. I don't know if it was just me being tired from my first day at uni, but I just kept on getting lost in it and losing track of time. If it can keep up this level of quality for the last two episodes (and then on and on forever), I'll be a happy ladd. EDIT: For a poor anime only boi like me, can someone please explain why people are complaining about sjw's again. Every time this happens it's always over something stupid In this episode, you can see that Thorfinn wakes up and leaves the place he was sleeping att, because of a nightmare. In the manga the reason why he leaves is kinda darker. When he wakes up, he sees three guys from the Askelads group about to rape an english woman. They even asked if he also wants to do it too, but Thorfinn leaves. We don't see her getting raped, but there would be complains about it. That's what they're complaining about? That they didn't see a woman get raped? |
| Thorfinn's slowly getting over it I guess I wanna see he the ppl back in the village are doing :c The episode wasn't that action loaden but more of a informative episode. Don't dislike it |
 “I don’t like expending more effort than I have to.” – Ayanokouji Kiyotaka |
A_Sad_Dust_Cloud said: NotFred said: In this episode, you can see that Thorfinn wakes up and leaves the place he was sleeping att, because of a nightmare. In the manga the reason why he leaves is kinda darker. When he wakes up, he sees three guys from the Askelads group about to rape an english woman. They even asked if he also wants to do it too, but Thorfinn leaves. We don't see her getting raped, but there would be complains about it. That's what they're complaining about? That they didn't see a woman get raped? Not really. The reason why people are complaining about the cutted off scene, becuase it's a decent moment for Thorfinn. It shows how inhuman he is. He's only after Askeladds head, he doesn't care about anything else. If that scene was in the anime, it would make a controversy and Sjw's would be complaining about it. Kinda like with Goblin Slayer. Hopefully I explained it, better this time. |
A_Sad_Dust_Cloud said: NotFred said: In this episode, you can see that Thorfinn wakes up and leaves the place he was sleeping att, because of a nightmare. In the manga the reason why he leaves is kinda darker. When he wakes up, he sees three guys from the Askelads group about to rape an english woman. They even asked if he also wants to do it too, but Thorfinn leaves. We don't see her getting raped, but there would be complains about it. That's what they're complaining about? That they didn't see a woman get raped? They're complaining about obvious censorship... |
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NotFred said: A_Sad_Dust_Cloud said: That's what they're complaining about? That they didn't see a woman get raped? Not really. The reason why people are complaining about the cutted off scene, becuase it's a decent moment for Thorfinn. It shows how inhuman he is. He's only after Askeladds head, he doesn't care about anything else. If that scene was in the anime, it would make a controversy and Sjw's would be complaining about it. Kinda like with Goblin Slayer. Hopefully I explained it, better this time. tbh, I think it probably would've pulled me out of it had they kept it in. Since I didn't know it was even there in the manga, and I still enjoyed the scene in the anime fine, then I have to wonder if it really added all that much. We already know Thorfinn's obsessed with revenge, we've known this since the time-skip, it doesn't need that much re-enforcement.. The scene probably wouldn't have been very long anyway so I don't mind that it got cut. And in fairness, if someone's getting called an 'sjw' in an argument, I'm usually on their side, historically speaking. Wasn't a big fan of Goblin Slayer either. |
TsukuyomiREKT said: A_Sad_Dust_Cloud said: That's what they're complaining about? That they didn't see a woman get raped? They're complaining about obvious censorship... Who gives a shit? If an anime-only guy like me can enjoy that scene fine and didn't even know that it originally contained a rape, you have to ask what that missing bit really added in the first place. |
A_Sad_Dust_Cloud said: Who gives a shit? If an anime-only guy like me can enjoy that scene fine and didn't even know that it originally contained a rape, you have to ask what that missing bit really added in the first place. I mean, censorship is a bad thing almost 100% of the time, even if the scene is minor. I have no problem if things are removed for creative purposes, but if it's removed just because those making it know it will be controversial, then that's gonna bother me and a lot of other people. |
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A_Sad_Dust_Cloud said: And in fairness, if someone's getting called an 'sjw' in an argument, I'm usually on their side, historically speaking. Wasn't a big fan of Goblin Slayer either. I really hope you're not put off by people comparing this scene in vinland saga to garbage shows like Goblin Slayer. Vinland Saga could not be more different. As for what you missed, in all truth, is a nice, ironic juxtaposition between Thorfinn really REALLY caring about his dad, sister and mother who are in his dream, but then failing to extend that same empathy and feeling of "no, harming people is bad" to anyone who is not direct family. Which is a nice thematic/characterization moment. But it's not really -new- information. People who are complaining about Vinland Saga not having the rape scene in the anime, and believing that it would lead to similar situations like when people were taking issue with Goblin Slayer, are not capable of distinguishing between criticism of rape and the sexualisation of it. I hope this gives you enough context. |
| Slavery, mass killing of innocent and cutting finger and heads are ok But just a small rape scene is big issue ?? Rape happen so many time in wars (specially at that time period). There is no reason not include the rape scene in the anime. |
| I came to this thread to express my appreciation for this episode and all I see is people complaining about a rape scene not being included from the manga. I really do not understand why this is a big deal. With or without the rape scene everyone seems like they will get plenty of meaningful character development. I am really enjoying this series but it hasn't quite reached the heights that I was hoping for, at least not yet. |
| prior to that we saw cut down people in half and we saw Thors do all that superhuman stuff , so him throwing that wasn't out of place. We also saw thorfin leap 30 feet, so this isn't that out of place.[/quote] That's true. Thorfinn's leap also bugged me when I first saw it but then I overlooked it. As I said, I still love the series because the story has been very good so far (didn't read the manga). Those exaggerated things are just anime nature I guess. I just hope they don't overdo them. |
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MonkeyDHunter said: Thorfinn is still haunted by his father's death during his sleep. Loved the conversation or rather Askeladd's monologue. He is true that time is on Thorfinn's side as he growing old and even compared that to the fall of the Roman Empire to the Saxons and now the latter's fall by the Danish proving that even the strongest cannot stay at the top forever. Canute's army got slaughtered and now he is Thorkell's prisoner. Askeladd is going all out to get him so he can take advantage of him. Only problem with this episode was that they cut the r*pe scene when Thorfinn woke up. Here the panels for anime-onlies: Wow wtf! I really don't get Thorfinn's character. He cares about having a honored duel with a guy that killed his father by playing dirty, and he doesn't care how many people suffer and die so that Askeladd accepts a duel, despite showing his distaste for war in the previous episode. |
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| -It's been a while, Vinland Saga. -Thorfinn, you have some weird dreams. Don't listen to you dad. Kill Askeladd. -That conversation between Thorfinn and Askeladd was definitely a highlight. Askeladd knows he will eventually be overpowered. He just has come to accept all of this as the cycle of life. -I was not expecting Askeladd to cut that guys head off. I loved Thorfinn's reaction though. Definitely using that image in the future. Great episode. I wonder how Thorkell's regenerative abilities will play into the story. thepath said: AcceleratorAngel said: Sad that they cut put the r*pe the scene where thorfinn wakes up and see the vikings take a village girl and raping her, showing how little throfinn really cares abt heroic deeds and how far he is from his fathers ideals. Please tell me what chapter in manga !! shane_nichols said: With the sjws all over the media it's a smart move. I mean even Tanjirous earrings got criticized lmao SJW should be ignored. THey are just a noisy minority They won't stop until every piece of media is "safe" by their standards. Fuck censorship. That being said, I don't think they had any influence on this particular decision. nanimeanswhat said: Daniel_Naumov said: Okay I was critical. I was rash when talking about this series. But when Thorkell threw those stones like M&Ms I lost it. I lost all desire to keep going. As the series lost any desire to stay coherent. I will just... observe the drama, and try not to refer to this series as "historical" anymore. I agree with this one. For the past few episodes I watched everything with pure joy but when Thorkell threw those rocks like that I thought I was watching a fantastic shounen for a second. Totally disliked that part. I still love the series though. Yeah, that's really ruining a lot for me. I mean, if all these characters weren't based off real people and a real viking saga, it wouldn't bother me as much. It just feels comedic sometimes. It's definitely my biggest problem with the series so far. LalatinaDarkness said: KANLen09 said: FINALLY! THANK YOU HorribleSubs FOR PUTTING EXCLAMATION MARKS! Took you THIS long to exclaim in wording...what a wimp to those doing the subbing without it, not knowing how much impact it does. Anyways, we get to see a momentary flashback between Thors and Thorfinn, albeit a different moment in time, but with the same feelings and emotions in memory. Seems that Thorfinn just wanted to honour his dad's legacy. Plus, the rape scene in the manga is just the moment of accord, and I don't really think that this would transition well into the TV for more than just censoring reasons. May I know is the rape scene really necessary? I just read some manga readers (redditors for example) didn't like/was disappointed at the decision to remove the rape scene as it was an impactful moment that'll make thorfinn's character development more satisfying later on. Please enlighten me, what's your take on this? Really? I'm surprised Reddit wasn't praising this censorship. nanimeanswhat said: prior to that we saw cut down people in half and we saw Thors do all that superhuman stuff , so him throwing that wasn't out of place. We also saw thorfin leap 30 feet, so this isn't that out of place. That's true. Thorfinn's leap also bugged me when I first saw it but then I overlooked it. As I said, I still love the series because the story has been very good so far (didn't read the manga). Those exaggerated things are just anime nature I guess. I just hope they don't overdo them.[/quote] That Thorfinn thing bugged me too! The worst part is, everyone said "Well this episode was adapted from the pilot chapter which was more shoneny. It won't always be like this." And then Thorkell comes in with all this ridiculousness. I'm still enjoying the show, but that stuff is so annoying.  |
Pikslap said: -It's been a while, Vinland Saga. -Thorfinn, you have some weird dreams. Don't listen to you dad. Kill Askeladd. -That conversation between Thorfinn and Askeladd was definitely a highlight. Askeladd knows he will eventually be overpowered. He just has come to accept all of this as the cycle of life. -I was not expecting Askeladd to cut that guys head off. I loved Thorfinn's reaction though. Definitely using that image in the future. Great episode. I wonder how Thorkell's regenerative abilities will play into the story. thepath said: Please tell me what chapter in manga !! SJW should be ignored. THey are just a noisy minority They won't stop until every piece of media is "safe" by their standards. Fuck censorship. That being said, I don't think they had any influence on this particular decision. nanimeanswhat said: I agree with this one. For the past few episodes I watched everything with pure joy but when Thorkell threw those rocks like that I thought I was watching a fantastic shounen for a second. Totally disliked that part. I still love the series though. Yeah, that's really ruining a lot for me. I mean, if all these characters weren't based off real people and a real viking saga, it wouldn't bother me as much. It just feels comedic sometimes. It's definitely my biggest problem with the series so far. LalatinaDarkness said: May I know is the rape scene really necessary? I just read some manga readers (redditors for example) didn't like/was disappointed at the decision to remove the rape scene as it was an impactful moment that'll make thorfinn's character development more satisfying later on. Please enlighten me, what's your take on this? Really? I'm surprised Reddit wasn't praising this censorship. nanimeanswhat said: prior to that we saw cut down people in half and we saw Thors do all that superhuman stuff , so him throwing that wasn't out of place. We also saw thorfin leap 30 feet, so this isn't that out of place. That's true. Thorfinn's leap also bugged me when I first saw it but then I overlooked it. As I said, I still love the series because the story has been very good so far (didn't read the manga). Those exaggerated things are just anime nature I guess. I just hope they don't overdo them. That Thorfinn thing bugged me too! The worst part is, everyone said "Well this episode was adapted from the pilot chapter which was more shoneny. It won't always be like this." And then Thorkell comes in with all this ridiculousness. I'm still enjoying the show, but that stuff is so annoying. [/quote]It's very confusing to me as a manga reader in regards to anime only's perspective on the inhuman acts in this show. Not one of the people I know who have read the manga really care about the superhuman strengths and feats of the main characters, but people do care about it when it gets an anime adaptation. I have nothing against your opinion, I just found it quite odd. Perhaps a different audience means a different perspective? |
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| No rape scene but otherwise it was okay |
 "I want to show that woman the true Yoshikage Kira. I want her to hear how I feel deep inside. That I want to take your slender neck into these hands and strangle you to death." |
| nice setup episode Askeladd is one ambitious old man Can't wait to see Thorfinn vs Thorkell round 2 |
RainyShadow said: NotFred said: I don't understand the hype for Ylva, forgetable as hell. oh wait. Waifu's. Also we don't need an alternate story, since it is already great. Personally - it's not hype for Ylva, just hate for Thorfuckn... Also, the story is boring. I get it that some people hate Thorfin for not giving the hype shit they need, not being cold blood, or say rational and badass that allows them to project themselves, but that will be a different genre. It is like watching a kid streaming ur favourite game and u flame on every mistake he made, but this is really not neccesary, for the kid is only a 6-year-old and you might done worse at his age. It is boring to watch if you are expecting a lot of 'badass element' usually find in isekai genre, but that doesn't mean the story itself is boring. |
| Man didn't expected Askeladd to do that. It feels like he's really trying to go out with a bang her. Thorfinn is still edgy af. I thought after speaking with his father in his dream he may have reflected a little, but he was still raging at Askeladd during their conversation. |
olaoshabu said: RainyShadow said: Personally - it's not hype for Ylva, just hate for Thorfuckn... Also, the story is boring. I get it that some people hate Thorfin for not giving the hype shit they need, not being cold blood, or say rational and badass that allows them to project themselves, but that will be a different genre. It is like watching a kid streaming ur favourite game and u flame on every mistake he made, but this is really not neccesary, for the kid is only a 6-year-old and you might done worse at his age. It is boring to watch if you are expecting a lot of 'badass element' usually find in isekai genre, but that doesn't mean the story itself is boring. There is no need for him to be badass or whatever. He just need to be gone. The show can go on with Askelad (or anyone else) as a main lead. |
Elucid said: Pikslap said: -It's been a while, Vinland Saga. -Thorfinn, you have some weird dreams. Don't listen to you dad. Kill Askeladd. -That conversation between Thorfinn and Askeladd was definitely a highlight. Askeladd knows he will eventually be overpowered. He just has come to accept all of this as the cycle of life. -I was not expecting Askeladd to cut that guys head off. I loved Thorfinn's reaction though. Definitely using that image in the future. Great episode. I wonder how Thorkell's regenerative abilities will play into the story. They won't stop until every piece of media is "safe" by their standards. Fuck censorship. That being said, I don't think they had any influence on this particular decision. Yeah, that's really ruining a lot for me. I mean, if all these characters weren't based off real people and a real viking saga, it wouldn't bother me as much. It just feels comedic sometimes. It's definitely my biggest problem with the series so far. Really? I'm surprised Reddit wasn't praising this censorship. That's true. Thorfinn's leap also bugged me when I first saw it but then I overlooked it. As I said, I still love the series because the story has been very good so far (didn't read the manga). Those exaggerated things are just anime nature I guess. I just hope they don't overdo them. That Thorfinn thing bugged me too! The worst part is, everyone said "Well this episode was adapted from the pilot chapter which was more shoneny. It won't always be like this." And then Thorkell comes in with all this ridiculousness. I'm still enjoying the show, but that stuff is so annoying. It's very confusing to me as a manga reader in regards to anime only's perspective on the inhuman acts in this show. Not one of the people I know who have read the manga really care about the superhuman strengths and feats of the main characters, but people do care about it when it gets an anime adaptation. I have nothing against your opinion, I just found it quite odd. Perhaps a different audience means a different perspective?[/quote] I guess perhaps the animation is what's causing it. I like anime and manga, but anime is definitely the more lively of the two, and maybe to someone who hasn't read the manga, it makes things a lot more noticeable. I probably would brush a lot of the shoneny stuff off if I had read the manga first, even though it bothers me personally. This is because I can brush off a long jump as me seeing the jump wrong, or the inhuman rock throwing as me perceiving the length it was thrown incorrectly. But in an anime, especially one animated this well-detailed, there's no room for imagination. Though all this is theoretical, as I haven't read the manga. But yes, I agree that perspective and perception is probably the root in the difference. And to be honest, this wouldn't bother me if these were all fictional characters, because I actually am a big fan of shonen stuff, but the context of them being real people I have studied also makes the shonen scenes ridiculous to me. I'm still enjoying this anime though. It definitely does a lot more right than it does wrong. najumobi said: Pikslap said: That Thorfinn thing bugged me too! The worst part is, everyone said "Well this episode was adapted from the pilot chapter which was more shoneny. It won't always be like this." And then Thorkell comes in with all this ridiculousness. I'm still enjoying the show, but that stuff is so annoying. haha. To me the pilot chapter stands out cartoonish because the french commander looked and behaved more like a titan than an actaul person. True. My mom saw episode 4 of this with me and started from the beginning, so since episode 5, she has been watching it with me. When we got to that episode, that French commander guy had her so pissed for some reason. She has never once complained about any of the shoneny stuff, but every scene that little Frenchman was onscreen she started ranting. It was pretty funny.  |
DupeusT31 said: MonkeyDHunter said: Thorfinn is still haunted by his father's death during his sleep. Loved the conversation or rather Askeladd's monologue. He is true that time is on Thorfinn's side as he growing old and even compared that to the fall of the Roman Empire to the Saxons and now the latter's fall by the Danish proving that even the strongest cannot stay at the top forever. Canute's army got slaughtered and now he is Thorkell's prisoner. Askeladd is going all out to get him so he can take advantage of him. Only problem with this episode was that they cut the r*pe scene when Thorfinn woke up. Here the panels for anime-onlies: Wow wtf! I really don't get Thorfinn's character. He cares about having a honored duel with a guy that killed his father by playing dirty, and he doesn't care how many people suffer and die so that Askeladd accepts a duel, despite showing his distaste for war in the previous episode. He doesn't like war but he lacks any sort of empathy for other people who are not his family and only cares about his revenge. His father's words don't reach him and has developed the deluded belief that an honorable duel with Askeladd will avenge him. The only time he showed care about others was that English old woman because he saw his family in her after living with her for a bit but even then he shrugged off all those thoughts once the pillage started. Also, in the case with the woman who was about to be raped in the stables if Thorfinn intervened, this could create problems with the rest of Askeladd's band which would have stood in his way as well. So, ignoring and avoiding any sort of interacton with the other guys seems to be the best course of action for him. |
MonkeyDHunterSep 17, 2019 1:27 AM
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RainyShadow said: olaoshabu said: I get it that some people hate Thorfin for not giving the hype shit they need, not being cold blood, or say rational and badass that allows them to project themselves, but that will be a different genre. It is like watching a kid streaming ur favourite game and u flame on every mistake he made, but this is really not neccesary, for the kid is only a 6-year-old and you might done worse at his age. It is boring to watch if you are expecting a lot of 'badass element' usually find in isekai genre, but that doesn't mean the story itself is boring. There is no need for him to be badass or whatever. He just need to be gone. The show can go on with Askelad (or anyone else) as a main lead. That's a shitty excuse tbh. Luckily for you, Throfinn takes a backseat in the future episodes. |
Murasame-dono said: I love how cruel and evil the Vikings are. Humans are awful creatures no matter what times we have. You love how they are cruel. Ok. |
| I don't think including any rape scenes would be necessary (I haven't read the manga, just basing this on what people are talking about). We already see the vikings carrying women around, the implication is strong enough. Thorfinn has been around them for so long, so yeah, he would see it happen on a regular basis. It's hardly surprising that it wouldn't move him much since that is a normal part of pillaging. For now his focus is on revenge alone and that is that. At least, I as a viewer can see that without having the scenes explicitly play in front of me. -_o |
| This really just feels like a shonen with decent writing. Once I let go of the notion that this was supposed to be a true seinen I started enjoying it a lot more. |
TheCommoner said: This really just feels like a shonen with decent writing. Once I let go of the notion that this was supposed to be a true seinen I started enjoying it a lot more. - Corpse of a husband and wife holding hands on the ground - Brutal fight to the death between comrades over a mere insult - A man's head is decapitated without any warning - A village most slaughtered just for a mere Viking camp. - Historical dialogue regarding the Romans and the Saxons - All the other mature scenes that happened episodes before bUt nO, oVeR tHe tOP aCtIOn = sHoUneN No, I'll admit that this isn't true Seinen. True Seinen has been long gone for years, however that doesn't ignore the fact that this anime still covers heavy subjects. This ain't Shonen. |
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Elucid said: TheCommoner said: This really just feels like a shonen with decent writing. Once I let go of the notion that this was supposed to be a true seinen I started enjoying it a lot more. - Corpse of a husband and wife holding hands on the ground - Brutal fight to the death between comrades over a mere insult - A man's head is decapitated without any warning - A village most slaughtered just for a mere Viking camp. - Historical dialogue regarding the Romans and the Saxons - All the other mature scenes that happened episodes before bUt nO, oVeR tHe tOP aCtIOn = sHoUneN No, I'll admit that this isn't true Seinen. True Seinen has been long gone for years, however that doesn't ignore the fact that this anime still covers heavy subjects. This ain't Shonen. The only thing Shounen about the series is Thorkell probably. Thank the heavens there's no pigtailed tsundere blondie to wreck havoc. Gotta love Philosopher Askeladd moments tho. |
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| Didn't expect that the 4000 armies would be defeated by 500 armies of Thorkell, it was one sided too. I thought Prince Canute can fight back, but then he was captured by Thorkell, they just wasted thousands of armies. As well as when Askeladd killed the messenger of Prince Canute's army just because he don't want anyone to command him. |
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Elucid said: Attack on Titan has tons of terrible things happen in it and it is still labeled a shounen. Hunter X Hunter has some fantastically brutal scenes in it and it is still a shounen. Violence and depravity do not really define a seinen, rather it is a piece of the definition. The quality of the writing and the depth of philosophical musing is usually what separates the two genres. And you are right for the most part on seinen not really resembling the previous decades. You can clearly see how the genre has changed with the new adaption of Legend of the Galactic Hereos for example. I am not holding my breath for seinen to be like the past.TheCommoner said: This really just feels like a shonen with decent writing. Once I let go of the notion that this was supposed to be a true seinen I started enjoying it a lot more. - Corpse of a husband and wife holding hands on the ground - Brutal fight to the death between comrades over a mere insult - A man's head is decapitated without any warning - A village most slaughtered just for a mere Viking camp. - Historical dialogue regarding the Romans and the Saxons - All the other mature scenes that happened episodes before bUt nO, oVeR tHe tOP aCtIOn = sHoUneN No, I'll admit that this isn't true Seinen. True Seinen has been long gone for years, however that doesn't ignore the fact that this anime still covers heavy subjects. This ain't Shonen. That being said, Vinland Saga feels like it sits in this awkward middle ground of the two genres. We do have quite a few slower contemplative moments and episode. I don't think the philosophy presented here is all that ground breaking or deep but it is a breath of fresh air compared to other shows recently. I have not read the manga so I cannot comment on where the series is going but I am certainly enjoying it. |
Lawren222 said: Interesting. I definitely see it being about target demographics but it certainly cannot be the sole defining factor. Even if the differences between a shounen and seinen are often murky there are certainly clearer examples of seinen than Vinland Saga.You are right that there are plenty of violent shonen but your technically wrong on what defines rather something is a shonen or senien. Its not about the writing,Shonen and Senien are not genres, they are demographics. Weather a work is shonen or senien just depends on the magazine it's in( if said magazine is aimed at teens or adults and "adult" does not equal mature in all cases). There are work that get the senien label that are more childish then some work that get the shonen label. If the mangaka of Attack on Titan or HunterxHunter had wanted thier work to be senien, they could've chosen to do so( Attack on Titan was too dark for shonen jump ,when offered it they passed on it and the latest manga arc of HxH could definitely do fine in a senien magazine many adults have trouble following it let alone teens). Jo Jo Bizarre Adventure and Vindland Saga here both did began in a shonen magazine before switching to a senien one, for JoJo the switch wasn't tell part 7,HunterxHunter is "adult" enough now it could've made a similar switch if Togashi wanted but given his great deal with jump he of course does not. |
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