vhagar8 said: HopefulNihilist said: Exactly. If I can't find a professional source that explains what a deconstruction is, I can't confirm whether Re: Zero's a deconstruction or not. Then why did u say "re:zero isn't a deconstruction" in one of your first posts? Ur contradicting yourself "Alright, I just checked: tv tropes seems to be reliable, so I'l take you word: Re: Zero is a deconstruction" OP admitted that it was a mistake on his part |
bakkuretsu said: vhagar8 said: Then why did u say "re:zero isn't a deconstruction" in one of your first posts? Ur contradicting yourself "Alright, I just checked: tv tropes seems to be reliable, so I'l take you word: Re: Zero is a deconstruction" OP admitted that it was a mistake on his part And he then withdrew that statement 1 or 2 posts after because he apparently found out TV tropes isn't that reliable: "I take back me agreeing with you that Re: Zero is a deconstruction" |
| Made In Abyss, by the art style was a bit difficult to imagine how it would be. |
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HopefulNihilist said: vhagar8 said: Then why did u say "re:zero isn't a deconstruction" in one of your first posts? Ur contradicting yourself If I can't confirm what something is or not, then my default choice is that it's not. It's not that u can't confirm whenever re:zero is a deconstruction or not, it's that u don't know what a deconstruction is. U keep saying that other definitions aren't official or whatever, but you're yet to give your definition of deconstruction. Are u using a word u don't know even know the meaning of? |
| That contrast creates weirdness, i think that's something most of the anime ppl listed aim for: kawaii characters doing crazy s**t / suffering a lot. Scenes that bother me are ones like THAT one in the beginning of goblin slayer, where a rape that should show how horrible the goblins are, is framed like a fan service scene. |
I think I don't know wtf I'm doing. Maybe. Probably. |
jwinter01 said: OnionKnightRises said: I don't know what the general consensus is, and this might not even be fair because I've only seen the first two or three episodes, but for me, Fire Force. Because of the similar staff it's basically a watered down SHAFT anime, but with a lot of downtime, which isn't really ideal for a Shounen that isn't reliant on lengthy dialogue sequences. The 20%-30% of the show that's supposed to look good definitely looks amazing, but then the rest of it just does not feel like it's on the same wavelength as the source material and it feels like someone took a piece of work and redid it in their own style without permission. Probably an unpopular opinion, but it's the first thing I personally thought of when I read the title. For me the weirdest thing about Fire Force is the direction during the dialogue. Like, it fits an anime like monogatari, but it just feels awkward at times in this show. Especially when comparing to the anime from the other series by the same author (Soul Eater), the dialogue scenes just flow way better than in Fire Force and they should feel somewhat similar since the same author wrote them and the tone of both series isn't too different. Exactly, it works well with Monogatari, but there is no such thing as a style that works with all genres. For example I love Masaaki Yuasa, but if he directed a Shounen just like Fire Force or MHA it'd just be offputting and I'd skip it. The SHAFT style in particular is meant to emphasize the dialogue and make lengthy monologues feel a lot punchier and more interesting, but the dialogue in Fire Force isn't exactly something that should be emphasized, it's pretty barebones. |
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HopefulNihilist said: vhagar8 said: It's not that u can't confirm whenever re:zero is a deconstruction or not, it's that u don't know what a deconstruction is. U keep saying that other definitions aren't official or whatever, but you're yet to give your definition of deconstruction. Are u using a word u don't know even know the meaning of? I'm not using the word deconstruction to describe anything. I don't know what a deconstruction is, which is why I'm asking someone to cite a professional source that explains what it is, because I can't find one. This is like the third time I'm saying this, but in one of your first posts u literally said, "re:zero isn't a deconstruction". With this sentence u acknowledge the word deconstruction as a word with an actual meaning, if u didn't know what a deconstruction is, that's not the reply a normal person would give. The more u reply, the more u look desperate to trashtalk the show for no reason. First u said the anime wasn't a deconstruction just for the sake of it and when u've been asked to elaborate u completely changed your stance negating the existence of a word u used yourself. But u know what, say the word deconstruction doesn't exist because it's not on an official dictionary? (The same way half of the words we use in this community aren't btw) Ok fine, let's say re:zero is an anime that takes common tropes of the genre he belongs to, and plays them in a more realistic way, showing how flawed they are in a non idealized world. All these words should be on the dictionary, u can check if u don't trust me, in this sentence fine by you? Mod edit: removed abuse |
BrandonSep 12, 2019 9:03 AM
HopefulNihilist said: Why is it that your tone with me becomes confrontational whenever we debate about Re: Zero? Even though we all know you wouldn't dare use such a tone in real life? Is this how you approach every debate? "The other person I'm debating with doesn't agree with me, so surely they're just disagreeing with me for the sake of it!" There is no such thing as, "disagreeing for the sake of it"; people disagree for specific reasons. I've explained why I disagree with you, so I'm not, "disagreeing for the sake of it". I have no interest with debating with someone who can't even be polite. I'll tell you what I told @Mythologically: Have a good day. I don't know how this was confrontational ? My tone wasn't confrontational here at all nor was I being impolite. "The other person I'm debating with doesn't agree with me, so surely they're just disagreeing with me for the sake of it" If you are going to twist stuff here and there, have at it. You went with the premise of asking for examples where that the art style was going to (badly) contrast. I gave you one. However, with respect to the supporting examples you chose to use, I gave you reasons as to why they weren't contrasting to the point of being detrimental because they share similar characteristics (Higurashi/Re:zero). I didn't figure out what were you even disagreeing about because you quickly went with a dismissive tone but still went by the same message I provided. Your posts made it seem like you were looking for reasons to disagree even with the following replies. That is pretty much the reason why I raised what do you even mean by art style, since there are several things consisting of art style. The discussion had started singing between the tunes of whether art style is good for the longer/shorter runs, whether it should be grim dark or light... Be clear with the premise before you get started on debates and/or start with the agreeing/disagreeing with counterviews and points or be expected to clear up the premise when asked. Our past discussions were confrontational since you were looking for reasons to shit on Re:zero and immediately assumed a dismissive tone as if people like us are incapable of saying something worth of logic that we spent time writing into. It is no wonder that I grew condescending. Feel free to read your own post and comment history in the previous threads. If my most recent replies were somehow confrontational, I am not going to apologize for something I don't even see myself doing, but the former wasn't my intention. But good day to you. Don't just run amok with "Even though we all know you wouldn't dare use such a tone in real life". Why even use words like 'dare' as if it were a threat? And yes, this is how I debate in real life because I don't start speaking up then the premise of the debate never becomes clear. It is better to be pretty hard nosed about sticking and/or clearing up the main point at hand because nobody should tolerate sidestepping to tangents or examples that aren't clear to the debating audience. I am not even a good debate person nor public speaker by my own standards but if it ever gets towards providing examples, I even make it clear that my own examples may be disregarded if the audience has no knowledge of it. You may know of this if you have defended scientific theses or project presentations in front of audiences and how you can contain the discussion, but feel free to disregard this example if you haven't done anything similar to that yet. It is understandable that communicating purely through text carries a higher risk of information loss and words end up being given higher emphasis than they should or they end up being misinterpreted, since humans rely on several different informational cues when speaking in person (visual, aural, etc along with the conversation topic at hand). |
KreatorXSep 1, 2019 1:12 AM
 Truly a Divine Comedy  |
| I actually like shows that has contrasting art style, for me it's a good thing.. If the story is dark, and art style is dark, it's just dark.. Which is not bad in itself, but just not to my taste.. But if there is warmth among darkness, it is giving us hope, and makes me personally care for characters more, than if they're all portrayed tough.. Examples: Re:Zero, Gakkougurashi, Madoka Magica.. |
| Surprised The Promised Neverland hasn't been said yet. I've seen quite a few people say it's too cutesy. Made in Abyss probably fits that as well. |
| Kemono no Souja Erin, to a degree. The simplistic artstyle has its charm but sometimes it's inadequate bring out the weight of the situation, be it character expressions or events. |
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| I never felt this way. And Re:Zero, really? The artstyle is pretty typical for the medium, and the show isn't even that 'dark' anyway... I think it was a very good fit, even though I do not like the show. |
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| Well I don't think Re:zero's artstyle is bad. But I cannot say that about that god awful Danganronpa 3. The artsyle is so ugly there and the Directing is so bad that the show falls completely flat when it came to the Dark parts and light parts at the same time. The video games had the whole psycho pop style going with it, making it look so crazy and actually fun. But the biggest fail of all has to be the Junji Ito anime. The art style being so horrible that it looks Hilarious instead if actually being remotely scary. |
| Shikki is probably the only one that comes to mind. Calling Madoka or Made in Abyss is pretty dumb, its the whole point of the show to fuck up moe Characters with moe artstlye in a "dark" story. He put "badly" in the title for a reason. Re:zero is not that dark tho, i found the art style to be kinda fitting. |
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| i bit conficted on this but Now and Then, Here and There comes to mind i get why they picked that artstyle (back then they couldnt have gotten away with controversial subjects such as child explotation, rape, abortion, etc otherwise) but makes me wonder, a realistic artsyle d ve make it better? |
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| @HopefulNihilist Could you please explain how I wasn't being clear with the premise of the argument? Debates online tend to get very long, and as a result, they probably can become jumbled. Okay, I shall give you the explanation as requested. Refer to #1 and your own reply in #39. And then you can hopefully see why I asked you what did you mean by art style before you raised the question and got down to disagreeing or agreeing with things. You supported your initial argument calling Re:zero to be an 'extremely' dark show with a 'ridiculously light-hearted art style' (if you want, notice your choice of adverbs). You then pit that against Higurashi which employs the same formula for having a light-hearted art-style contrasting to the simply outright brutal scenes presented in that show (which I need not elaborate again), even more so if we start comparing the likes of a visibly higher production-quality anime like Re:zero. You then raise the counter view you would now like to disagree on the fact that Higurashi's art style wasn't a misdirection and that anybody watching was supposed to already know that shit was going to happen, to which I clarified why I didn't imply it the way you understood it. The you object to my clarification by means of saying that compared to Re:zero, Higurashi doesn't have a higher contrast because now it has a muted colour palette compared to the former (a side result of its low production values and not to mention that Higurashi's sequel adaptations progressively got a more polished art style...and a similar treatment was seen with its video game releases). Then the argument shifts to Re:zero's present art style not being good for the long run, to which I admitted only time can tell. So as a rhetoric, what is the premise and your opening argument concerning the (badly) contrasting nature? Do you see what I am getting at now or do I need to explain it in some other way? You admit that you don't know the technicalities in 'art styles' (which is what I believe you meant to say instead of 'good art') since it may not be your background but acknowledge it by reducing it to shapes and colours. Refer very clearly to my post in #52 for correspondence before you called out on me being impolite when I wasn't even being one. (it was a ':D' and not a curt ':)' , implies a friendly laugh but what do I know, we are conversing through text after all.) There isn't much to debates on the internet if the premise isn't clear and if one goes around assuming everyone comes from a condescending position. I don't become condescending just like that. You may proceed to develop all grand theories on how I debate. From my side, I gave you pretty much an honest answer on how I debate. It is no different online than it is in real life. The only difference is that we are exchanging information through digitized letters of the English alphabet. |
KreatorXSep 1, 2019 9:09 AM
| Truly a Divine Comedy |
| Just felt like the artstyle point in the slice of life direction where things are slow-paced while Asobi Asobase and Nichijou are in fact fast-paced filled with intense burlesque comedy. |
Includes depression, rape and suicide. +1 Now and Then Here and There |
| Goblin slayer in its use of color palette and how it sets tone. I prefer manga way more in that part. Lychee Light Club that weird omake series thing. Art style fits a humorous setting yes, but when our original story includes themes like what makes one human I don't even get why make such an "adaptation" in the first place. |
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| Fantastic Children was trying to go for the same kind of art style dissonance that Now and Then Here and There employed so masterfully, but the art director of the former wasn't nearly as skilled as the latter, so Fantastic Children just looks really, really bad instead. Which is a shame because, other than the artwork, Fantastic Children is a fucking masterpiece. |
 This glorious signature image was created by @Mayumi! I am the Arbiter of Absolute Truth, and here is my wisdom: "Anime was always influenced by the West. This is not news. Shoujo is the superior genre primarily aimed at young people. Harem/isekai are lazy genres that refuse any meaningful innovation. There is no 'Golden Age.' There will always be top-shelf anime. You should be watching Carole & Tuesday." |
| How about something where the lack of a deliberate art style dissonance is the problem? The original 2003 Kino's Journey anime, the early light novel illustrations, and the specials all have this round designs and an aesthetic reminiscent of a old timey story book, which contrasts with and yet compliments the bleak content of the series and gives the series a wonderful "twisted folk tale" sort of feel. The 2017 anime and some of the newer LN illustrations on the other hand... doesn't contrast with the tone or the story whatsoever and looks nearly indistinguishable from any other light novel illustrations... Actually, forget that about it not contrasting with the tone of the story, it absolutely contrasts with the tone of the story, but in a bad, unintentional way. The color palette is too bright for such a bleak setting and the designs make the series look like an action anime rather than the slow, contemplative series it actually is. A picture's worth a thousand words, so... |
removed-userSep 2, 2019 2:54 AM
KingShoter007 said: Everyone here missing the point. Made in Abyss, Madoka, Re:Zero, their tone is SUPPOSED tone clash with the art style. We expect one thing, but get another, which amplifies the shock. Especially in the first 2 - How many of you were expecting to see No one. Because it looks like a safe kids show. And when it happened, you were disgusted, astonished and invested more than you normally would be. Mission accomplished as far as the director is concerned. Meanwhile, according to this thread, every dark show should have an 80s lone detective vibe, and every happy show should be Yuri Yuri. You’re all so boring. You may want to put those in spoilers, the one concerning Madoka. |
| Truly a Divine Comedy |
| For me it's Darker Than Black. It's a rated R noir action thriller that looks like a shoujo series and unlike shows like Made In The Abyss or Hunter X Hunter where it does that on purpose to deceive the audience into thinking they're watching something they're not, DTB doesn't even try to do that so you just have a noir anime that looks like Ouran Highschool Host Club |
| Goblin Slayer definitely. I think it would been taken a 1000 times more seriously, if it had a different, darker, grittier serious art style. |
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| Rezero doesn’t deconstruct anything. People toss that word around on here way to much. |
| Lolicons are scum. BABYMETAL is more metal than Metallica. Naruto is objectively the best anime ever. HxH 99' is decent. HxH 11' is bad. |
Mythologically said: Hokage_Jason said: Rezero doesn’t deconstruct anything. People toss that word around on here way to much. insert baseless statement that is factually untrue and then make a generalization that is vaguely related to the baseless statement here Lol. You’re funny. Do what you gotta to make yourself feel sophisticated man. |
| Lolicons are scum. BABYMETAL is more metal than Metallica. Naruto is objectively the best anime ever. HxH 99' is decent. HxH 11' is bad. |
Mythologically said: HopefulNihilist said: NGE doesn't look that light-hearted. It's not THAT dark of an anime except for specific scenes. Madoka has an extremely dark color palette. The girls' large eyes and colorful hair simply exist to show their innocence. Now and Then, Here and There, Utena, I haven't seen. I did a bit more research, and tv tropes isn't seen as a very professional source, so I take back me agreeing with you that Re: Zero is a deconstruction: https://lifehacker.com/use-the-tv-tropes-site-the-same-way-you-would-wikipedia-1822930619 "Remember, this is a casual entertainment site, not an encyclopedia, so don’t trust it as an authoritative source." "But do use it when Wikipedia feels impenetrable, when you want opinions more than facts," I've found several sources online that also say not to rely on TV Tropes. Until I can find a professional source that explains what a deconstruction is, I cannot confirm that Re: Zero, or even the anime you listed, are deconstructions. I have to say, this must be the single funniest post I have seen in my three years of using this site. Good on you. Let me leave you off with some bullet points, because this must be just the most mind-bogglingly stupid response you could've possibly written. 1. "Deconstruction" is a term that is applied to shows that take tropes from their genre and use them with a realistic approach, often resulting in darker themes. If you disagree with that being the definition of "deconstruction", let's say that that is the definition of the word "ddjkhlbfjksadfjehwd". Whether that is the definition of "deconstruction" or "ddjkhlbfjksadfjehwd" doesn't matter whatsoever. 2. Shows in the "ddjkhlbfjksadfjehwd" genre mirror the art styles of the shows that they are deconstructing, or in this case, ddjkhlbfjksadfjehwd-ing. 3. Sure, Madoka only mirrors the character designs, while everything else is a bit darker than the average Mahou Shoujo show. Who cares? That's such an arbitrary line to draw. Only characters being brightly colored is completely fine, but having the setting also be brightly colored is terrible? Huh? 4. Go look up what genetic fallacies and ad hominem are. Can't tell which one you're using against the wonderful TV Tropes website in this case since they are fairly similar. 5. There's no way a real human, who just said that Re:Zero is a dark show, could say that NGE is not dark. Are you seriously claiming that Re:Zero is darker than NGE? I'm mindblown. Also, NGE has insanely bright color palettes, especially for something from that time period. What are you on about lol? Obviously it doesn't look as "light-hearted" as Re:Zero. Mecha shows from the 90s, which are what NGE is ddjkhlbfjksadfjehwd-ing, aren't as "light-hearted" as isekais from the 2010s. 6. In this whole time, I've still not seen you explain why Re:Zero's color palette contrasts badly with its tone. Your claim that the art style isn't used for any kind of effect is nuts. The vibrant colors in the show are mainly used during SoL scenes, while the darker scenes shift to a darker art style. Go watch the first few minutes of episode 6 and 7. See the difference there? I can't believe you just never...stop posting essay-like responses ripping into strangers on MAL forums. You must be exhausted. |
| Lady Jewelpet's adorable exterior hides an extremely dark and dramatic story. |
| Higurashi no Naku Koro ni : First episode you think you are in a moe school comedy, Second episode you think what the hell happen? Ima, Soko ni Iru Boku : Maybe the biggest "contrast" i had ever see Dai Mahou Touge & Dokura-chan : So cute it hurts lol. Kino no Tabi The Beautiful World : More for the tv serie, the oav design was less pronounced. |
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