Dororo Episode 23 Discussion

Comander-07 said:
doesnt it hurt being like this?

Daniel_Naumov said:

Can you then justify a continued mass-murdering and screeching like a demon Hyakkimaru has been going on about during the last episodes? Does him rightfully wanting his hands back makes him morally impervious to any kind of sin he will commit while on his crusade? That's not even my idea, all there in the episode.

yasuda1986 said:
If Hyakkimaru hadn’t killed the demons. How many more travelers would bandai have eaten? How many more Brides would the centipede demon eat? How long before the 12 demons requested another heir to devour? After all the moth demon was getting given more ofterings on a regular basics.

nightcrawlercyp said:
Mass murdering? You mean the soldiers? It was clearly established that they are as evil as demons by all their repeated abuses and by their mentality. It is also not clear if tgey died or just got wounded and fled. If you mean tge two retainers they are demons at this point. Also their mind is so gone killing them is more a mercy kill. About being impervious to every sin I never said that. If he kills NPCs he will commit a sin he will have to repent for later. But now destroying the demons and freeing the people from the rule of Daigo must take priority. The people can never be happy as long as Daimyo and his samurai are alive. Unless they repent all those must die.Killing demons is not a sin.

ArcturusMi said:

I'm referring to that comment who thinks Hyakkimaru is just a victim. And Taho is unjustified in his actions.

ArcturusMi said:

... Do you even understand the contract Daigo made? It's not loan lmao

He asked the demons to take "anything from me [Daigo]" in exchange of the prosperity of The Land of Daigo. That's it. He's willing to sacrifice himself.

But the demon loves their wordplay and took his firstborn (since Hyakkimaru "belongs" to Daigo Kagemitsu).

Daniel_Naumov said:

And you understood absolutely nothing from this series. You accuse samurais, humans, of being evil and agree to their merciless erradication. You are a samurai yourself, if you believe in what you say. Saddening, but you are a great example of why Dororo is a needed series even today - when picking sides means you automatically consider the other side as an utter evil that must be eliminated no matter the cost and moral implications.

I was also referring to the commentary you were referring to, but could not find it to properly quote it, to be honest...

nightcrawlercyp said:
I understood the series including the ambiguous bs they tried to put forth from ep1, but I also know the original manga and the original anime.
Also you insult me. I believe that officials should be executed if they abuse their position and that soldier's purpose is to defend the people. In army if you do actions like those the soldiers did in the anime you face a shooting squad. Yes I know it was not the way things were back then but there is a good reason for it. I remember Vlad impaling corrupted officials and that was a good thing.
Also according to you a samurai should have the right to rape steal and kill the people they are trying to protect?
Neither Daigo Tahomaru or the samurai care at all for the people. Yes they do say this to make themselves feel better but their actions do jack shit to help them. What is good are fertile plains if the samurai class take everything they produce from the pov of the peasant? You clear do not understand the pain of serfdom in feudal society.

operationvalkyri said:
I gasped so many times during this episode, I lost count.
Exactly how I feel. This has been an amazing ride!

fukumenkei said:

come on, he is alive, but it's not like anyone would let him live anyway. tahoumaru is trying to kill him. they need him dead, for the demons to keep eating him forever so the land can have peace.

and him getting what's his is not gonna kill thousands, it'll make their lives more difficult, just as it was supposed to be from the beginning.

it's difficult to accept being sacrificed for something you've never chosen. it's not fair. they call him a monster and want him dead, the deal his father made took everything away from him. i wouldn't say that's self interest, it's survival instinct. the worst person in a this is definitely his father. if he wanted to save his land so desperately, he should have given his own body to the demons.

Daniel_Naumov said:

And you insult the whole history of your own species, foundations of humanism, fundamental ideas presented in this series and sound extremely pretentious when talking about the motivations of the characters. As if you understood them. But the bloodthirst will not get you anywhere, closer to us. Always staying behind because of anger and enemy-making. You will see what happens to Hyakkimaru, and hopefully you will see the parallels in the mirror.

Zilch_216 said:


Just a reminder that this is an old japan. In those times first born will always be the heir. They will just be considered not if they are dead. And fortunately Hyakkimaru is still alive.

Also, do you think the demon cared about human system like heir by selection. Tahoumaru is a heir by selection. He was a replacement for Hyakkimaru. A replacement has no value for demons. For them Hyakkimaru has way more value as he is born as a heir.

Also in episode 12. Tahoumaru and his group tried to do something to the hall of hell to stop the curse and also help Hyakkimaru (maybe). But what happened? They we're push back by the demons.

It is good to say your thoughts and things. But it is bad to forget that this show is not your typical modern era anime. Old era's are way complicated with their hierarchy system and stuff.

Daniel_Naumov said:

Again, you lack knowledge. This was addressed a thousand time through and through during each episode discussion - demons did not give him a choice of what to give them, they merely took what they wanted when Daigo drew the pact. Also, contemporary demons take first-borns as sacrifices for about a thousand years now. This is not about what Daigo wanted. This is about what demons wanted.

fukumenkei said:

come on, he is alive, but it's not like anyone would let him live anyway. tahoumaru is trying to kill him. they need him dead, for the demons to keep eating him forever so the land can have peace.

and him getting what's his is not gonna kill thousands, it'll make their lives more difficult, just as it was supposed to be from the beginning.

it's difficult to accept being sacrificed for something you've never chosen. it's not fair. they call him a monster and want him dead, the deal his father made took everything away from him. i wouldn't say that's self interest, it's survival instinct. the worst person in a this is definitely his father. if he wanted to save his land so desperately, he should have given his own body to the demons.

Jaslen said:
Some of you seem to think Daigo offered himself because of the English translation of " Take anything of mine." It's clear in Japanese though. "Wa ga te ni hairu mono" Literally, " what come into my hand". So, it's actually what he would obtain , not what he already had at the time of the deal. After all, as he clearly stated, It was all for his dream of ruling over a prosperous land. Can't rule if he is dead.

I am not here to debate about which side is more right. Just pointing out Daigo was never willing to sacrifice himself. He actually worded it, so the sacrifice would come from elsewhere.

Elena-chan21 said:
@_MushiRock11_ I agree with this I also believe that hyakkimaru and the tahoumaru will die.I want a happy end with hyakkimaru & dororo, I ask a lot? xD

yasuda1986 said:
Does anyone think this force moral dillema is dragging the show down a bit. The story of Daigo wishing for power was just fine. The point of a villain isn't to be a central focus but too drive the plot and themes. So why do we need to contrive a way to make the villan kind of have a point. And this need in recent works to make the Hero seem grey is basically a cliche at this point.

The moral Dillema for me is making the show less enjoyable.

NV_ said:


Did you even watch the series or are you arguing from the synopsis?

1. Tahomaru is trying to kill him to stop him hurting his land and people more, if Hyakkimaru swore to not pursue his arms and eyes and moved far away, then he would literally never be bothered by Daigo's land ever again. Perhaps they'd prefer for him to be dead and save more of their people, but that's never been portrayed as their objective.

2. No, it is killing people. We've literally seen disease and famine killing people on screen, and it's been made very clear that the reason their land is falling under these disasters is because the pact with the demons is being broken by Hyakkimaru. Sure you could argue this is just the way things should have been, it's a fair point of view, but why would they not save lives when they have the power.

3. There is no survival instinct here, he is actively pursuing battle and danger to have a better body and quality of life. It's certainly not fair on him, but a lot of things in life (more so in their world) are unfair. Thousands of people dying to natural disasters is unfair. Thousands of people dying to preventable natural disasters is unfair.

4. Daigo offered his body to the demons. As he quite openly and literally said, he was willing to offer them anything of his. His life, his body, his soul. I still wouldn't describe Daigo as a good person, he seems too stubborn and unsympathetic to Hyakkimaru, and he seems to be creating war out of ego and securing his position more than what's best for his people. But at least he's not killing innocents to secure his position. Like some people are.

yasuda1986 said:
"1. Tahomaru is trying to kill him to stop him hurting his land and people more, if Hyakkimaru swore to not pursue his arms and eyes and moved far away, then he would literally never be bothered by Daigo's land ever again. Perhaps they'd prefer for him to be dead and save more of their people, but that's never been portrayed as their objective.

2. No, it is killing people. We've literally seen disease and famine killing people on screen, and it's been made very clear that the reason their land is falling under these disasters is because the pact with the demons is being broken by Hyakkimaru. Sure you could argue this is just the way things should have been, it's a fair point of view, but why would they not save lives when they have the power.

3. There is no survival instinct here, he is actively pursuing battle and danger to have a better body and quality of life. It's certainly not fair on him, but a lot of things in life (more so in their world) are unfair. Thousands of people dying to natural disasters is unfair. Thousands of people dying to preventable natural disasters is unfair.

4. Daigo offered his body to the demons. As he quite openly and literally said, he was willing to offer them anything of his. His life, his body, his soul. I still wouldn't describe Daigo as a good person, he seems too stubborn and unsympathetic to Hyakkimaru, and he seems to be creating war out of ego and securing his position more than what's best for his people. But at least he's not killing innocents to secure his position. Like some people are."

Tahomaru made an enemy of Hyakkimaru right away. When your opponent is kill first talk later, trying to come to an agreement is impossible. Tahomaru was the one with the chance to offer that possibly.

NV_ said:


Did you even watch the series or are you arguing from the synopsis?

1. Tahomaru is trying to kill him to stop him hurting his land and people more, if Hyakkimaru swore to not pursue his arms and eyes and moved far away, then he would literally never be bothered by Daigo's land ever again. Perhaps they'd prefer for him to be dead and save more of their people, but that's never been portrayed as their objective.

2. No, it is killing people. We've literally seen disease and famine killing people on screen, and it's been made very clear that the reason their land is falling under these disasters is because the pact with the demons is being broken by Hyakkimaru. Sure you could argue this is just the way things should have been, it's a fair point of view, but why would they not save lives when they have the power.

3. There is no survival instinct here, he is actively pursuing battle and danger to have a better body and quality of life. It's certainly not fair on him, but a lot of things in life (more so in their world) are unfair. Thousands of people dying to natural disasters is unfair. Thousands of people dying to preventable natural disasters is unfair.

4. Daigo offered his body to the demons. As he quite openly and literally said, he was willing to offer them anything of his. His life, his body, his soul. I still wouldn't describe Daigo as a good person, he seems too stubborn and unsympathetic to Hyakkimaru, and he seems to be creating war out of ego and securing his position more than what's best for his people. But at least he's not killing innocents to secure his position. Like some people are.

NV_ said:


What?? The whole reason he's being attacked is because he continues to pursue his body, they don't need to spell it out to each other that the fighting would cease if Hyakkimaru stopped because there wouldn't even be a reason to fight at all if he stopped.

Daniel_Naumov said:
And you understood absolutely nothing from this series. You accuse samurais, humans, of being evil and agree to their merciless erradication. You are a samurai yourself, if you believe in what you say. Saddening, but you are a great example of why Dororo is a needed series even today - when picking sides means you automatically consider the other side as an utter evil that must be eliminated no matter the cost and moral implications.

fukumenkei said:


the thing is, it didn't start like this. hyakkimaru killed a demon and got a body part. then he did it again and got another. he learned that if he went after the demons he would have his body back, so he did. he didn't know about a pact, he didn't even know about daigo's land until he came across them. you're arguing about him fighting merely for a better quality of life but when it all began, he had nothing, he couldn't feel, see, talk, hear, he didn't even had a face. the trigger that set him out of control these last episodes for his arms and eyes wasn't -his- quality of life, he realized he couldn't protect what he cared about - dororo - properly without his body. would you rather fight to be able to protect someone you care about and cares for you or give it up for the sake of a land of people who call him a demon and are trying to kill him? both are fighting for what they want to protect in a way. and it's not like tahoumaru and daigo would stop trying to kill him even if he went away and tried to live in peace with what he already has. he already took stuff from the demons, the land is already perishing, even without his arms and eyes. tahoumaru explicitly said this episode, and in the last ones too, that he's going after hyakkimaru to give his body back to the demons. his objective had been killing hyakkimaru ever since they met in banmon.
you see, it's not that black and white, i wouldn't side and agree with hyakkimaru's fight if he was actively killing all those innocent people by his sword, but the famine and diseases aren't really his fault. i stand by hyakkimaru on this because it wasn't his choice, it's too heavy of a burden for a boy to carry on his back. can't hold it against him if he's trying to end the pact.
to me, natural disasters, pests and all that is falling on the land, those are all natural. it's devastating and hard, yes, but it is natural. no one's fault but of nature itself. daigo tried to interfere in that trying to make a pact with demons but it would never last. what would have happened after the demons finished consuming hyakkimaru's body? they would have to give another sacrifice? would him give tahoumaru in his place, or tahoumaru's first born? does that make it okay?
i actually see where you're coming from, but the only character i can't sympathize with in all this is daigo himself. the hall of evil is called of evil for a reason after all. demons are never good or fair. he knew what he was getting into. and I don't buy his talk of "for the prosperity of the land", what daigo wants is power, he fights for himself.

ttcchen said:
this country can go to shit for all i care. everyone in it are total selfish assholes who lost their humanity a long time ago. Fighting a blind person when you got three eyes and you still think you're not doing anything wrong?? Robbing him of everything and then calling him a monster for trying to take it back!?? I'm so glad they died and I can't wait for Tahomaru to die a miserable death and for this country to rot in hell. I've never hated an anime character so much since that hypocrite Suzaku from Code Geass.



I wouldn't call Hyakkimaru a mass murderer. All he did in the beginning was kill demons. It's Daigo and Tahomaru and their soldiers who attacked him first. So he fought back, and what if he killed them in return? It's only in self-defense. And when they become demons themselves, would it really be a sin for Hyakkimaru to kill them? Would you really call a human with three eyes, two of them were given to him by the demon, robbed from another human, a human?? To me, Hyakkimaru has more humanity than Tahomaru would ever have. No matter what Hyakkimaru turns into in the end, be it a human or a demon, I'll still be on his side. There's nothing wrong with taking back what you owned that were robbed from you. If anything, it's those robbers who justified their actions by using their country as an excuse who are in the wrong.