| after watch the evangelion 1990's anime and the EoE movie, i wanted to read the manga. honestly now that i read 8 chapters, i feel i should have read the manga first. but then the manga is supposed to be read after watching the anime because the manga was written in a way you understand some stuff from the anime, i think? my reason for saying this is that i feel i like the anime is better. i always thought or believed that watching a less good thing then watching a better thing is a superior watching experience than doing the opposite. what matters is the end. one of the disney movies creators once said , (and i am paraphrasing here), children can handle preatty sad stuff in the middle of a movie if the ending is a happy and good one. i think this can be somewhat true for adults as well. so how shall i deal with this? i will treat or tries to treat the evangelion manga as if it is its own entity with different story and characters. maybe this will help my autistic brain a bit. |
| the manga puts more emphasis into rei, has a kaji backstory, VERY different ending n overall just has a lot of stuff changed and added |
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| The manga is better than the Anime series, the characters are handled better and it has some cool twists of it's own. |
OptigisaJun 14, 2019 8:03 AM
| "The artwork is better" Of course, it was drawn only by the chara-designer himself over as much time as he wanted and there is no need to simplify the designs enough to be easy to reproduce and animate. Exact same story than The Origin (Gundam manga by the original chara-designer). |
Optigisa said: The manga is better than the Anime series, the artwork and the characters are better. No, the characters in the manga doesn't develop that deep human drawn the anime has, it is focused on a more shonenesque way. It is not bad, but what you say is not true. Well ofc the artwork is better, it is a manga, you don't have animation, you can not compare a manga with an anime in that way (and is pretty much the same drawing, made bv Yoshiyuki Sadamoto). |
PentagramShogoki said: Optigisa said: The manga is better than the Anime series, the artwork and the characters are better. No, the characters in the manga doesn't develop that deep human drawn the anime has, it is focused on a more shonenesque way. It is not bad, but what you say is not true. Well ofc the artwork is better, it is a manga, you don't have animation, you can not compare a manga with an anime in that way (and is pretty much the same drawing, made bv Yoshiyuki Sadamoto). Shinji's character was handled better here, he wasn't irrationally depressed like his Anime counterpart. Asuka had cooler moments to shine (Especially her introduction in the arcade store and how her breakdown at the end was handled). Kaiji has a backstory here. At the end of the day, it is my opinion, and there isn't anything false about a subjective opinion. I edited my comment and removed the artwork part. |
OptigisaJun 14, 2019 7:59 AM
Optigisa said: PentagramShogoki said: No, the characters in the manga doesn't develop that deep human drawn the anime has, it is focused on a more shonenesque way. It is not bad, but what you say is not true. Well ofc the artwork is better, it is a manga, you don't have animation, you can not compare a manga with an anime in that way (and is pretty much the same drawing, made bv Yoshiyuki Sadamoto). Shinji's character was handled better here, he wasn't irrationally depressed like his Anime counterpart. Asuka had cooler moments to shine (Especially her introduction in the arcade store and how her breakdown at the end was handled). Kaiji has a backstory here. At the end of the day, it is my opinion, and there isn't anything false about a subjective opinion. I edited my comment and removed the artwork part. Yeah well you're true about Kaji and I think Kaworu was better handled there (and yes that is a subjective opinion but it sounded like it wasn't at first). Wouldn't say Shinji is irrationally depressed, he's in charge of saving the world without having any kind of reason for it. People around him doesn't help him because they are equally mental instable and the relationships he has (especially with his father) make him being guilty and have fear of being abandoned if he does not pilot the Evangelion. Plus, he was alone for his whole childhood, and from some studios I've read (regarding this subject) people that grow up without a parental care have serious self esteem problems in their adolescence / adult. As from Asuka, I also prefer the anime counterpart because how strong she really is, trying to live by herself, only to realise she can not do that. Do not like Asuka like a human being but I found her brilliantly made as a character. Sadamoto managed to make Kaji's backstory interesting (he deserved it, was a great dude) and also Kaworu's. In the anime he's introduced as the 'perfect' companion for Shinji, but without any kind of development. In the manga, Kaworu grew to be a senseless human to a fully built person, and that was great. I consider the Eva manga to be really good (in some terms, maybe better than the anime), but regarding the characters, I couldn't emphatyse that good with them as the anime made me do. But, as you well said, this is a subject of perspective, and every one has its own. |
PentagramShogoki said: Optigisa said: Shinji's character was handled better here, he wasn't irrationally depressed like his Anime counterpart. Asuka had cooler moments to shine (Especially her introduction in the arcade store and how her breakdown at the end was handled). Kaiji has a backstory here. At the end of the day, it is my opinion, and there isn't anything false about a subjective opinion. I edited my comment and removed the artwork part. Yeah well you're true about Kaji and I think Kaworu was better handled there (and yes that is a subjective opinion but it sounded like it wasn't at first). Wouldn't say Shinji is irrationally depressed, he's in charge of saving the world without having any kind of reason for it. People around him doesn't help him because they are equally mental instable and the relationships he has (especially with his father) make him being guilty and have fear of being abandoned if he does not pilot the Evangelion. Plus, he was alone for his whole childhood, and from some studios I've read (regarding this subject) people that grow up without a parental care have serious self esteem problems in their adolescence / adult. As from Asuka, I also prefer the anime counterpart because how strong she really is, trying to live by herself, only to realise she can not do that. Do not like Asuka like a human being but I found her brilliantly made as a character. Sadamoto managed to make Kaji's backstory interesting (he deserved it, was a great dude) and also Kaworu's. In the anime he's introduced as the 'perfect' companion for Shinji, but without any kind of development. In the manga, Kaworu grew to be a senseless human to a fully built person, and that was great. I consider the Eva manga to be really good (in some terms, maybe better than the anime), but regarding the characters, I couldn't emphatyse that good with them as the anime made me do. But, as you well said, this is a subject of perspective, and every one has its own. Evangelion's manga wrote Shinji to have a sense of responsibility, without having to shove the idea of him being depressed constantly in the viewer's face, which got a bit repetitious in the Anime series. While I consider End of Evangelion to be the best out of all Eva works, the wanking off scene was very unnecessary and only served as shock factor to the audience. Instead of that, the manga gave us more characterization to Asuka as she went ham on Shinji in that scene, which added more to her character of " being angry at everyone around her". Shinji is depressed in both works, yes, but he is handled better in the manga version, because the manga manages to make him stand out a bit rather than to be so depressed all the time. Really, if you read the forum comments on every Eva chapter, you will see some comments saying they like the Shinji of the manga better than his Anime counterpart, because he is less depressed and handled better there. As for Asuka, I like her EoE personality the best, but the scene where she remembers her mother is best handled in the manga (The movie barely showed her backstory when she was battling the final angels, if I remember correctly) Things I also liked in the manga better: The fights - Which flowed more smoothly in my opinion. Toji's relationship with the class rep The faster pacing - The Anime had pacing issues, the manga was faster at telling the story The manga also explained things in a clearer fashion. The only gripe I had with the manga was that I did not like the happy ending, I like the soup ending in the movie much more. |
OptigisaJun 14, 2019 11:30 AM
Optigisa said: PentagramShogoki said: Yeah well you're true about Kaji and I think Kaworu was better handled there (and yes that is a subjective opinion but it sounded like it wasn't at first). Wouldn't say Shinji is irrationally depressed, he's in charge of saving the world without having any kind of reason for it. People around him doesn't help him because they are equally mental instable and the relationships he has (especially with his father) make him being guilty and have fear of being abandoned if he does not pilot the Evangelion. Plus, he was alone for his whole childhood, and from some studios I've read (regarding this subject) people that grow up without a parental care have serious self esteem problems in their adolescence / adult. As from Asuka, I also prefer the anime counterpart because how strong she really is, trying to live by herself, only to realise she can not do that. Do not like Asuka like a human being but I found her brilliantly made as a character. Sadamoto managed to make Kaji's backstory interesting (he deserved it, was a great dude) and also Kaworu's. In the anime he's introduced as the 'perfect' companion for Shinji, but without any kind of development. In the manga, Kaworu grew to be a senseless human to a fully built person, and that was great. I consider the Eva manga to be really good (in some terms, maybe better than the anime), but regarding the characters, I couldn't emphatyse that good with them as the anime made me do. But, as you well said, this is a subject of perspective, and every one has its own. Evangelion's manga wrote Shinji to have a sense of responsibility, without having to shove the idea of him being depressed constantly in the viewer's face, which got a bit repetitious in the Anime series. While I consider End of Evangelion to be the best out of all Eva works, the wanking off scene was very unnecessary and only served as shock factor to the audience. Instead of that, the manga gave us more characterization to Asuka as she went ham on Shinji in that scene, which added more to her character of " being angry at everyone around her". Shinji is depressed in both works, yes, but he is handled better in the manga version, because the manga manages to make him stand out a bit rather than to be so depressed all the time. Really, if you read the forum comments on every Eva chapter, you will see some comments saying they like the Shinji of the manga better than his Anime counterpart, because he is less depressed and handled better there. As for Asuka, I like her EoE personality the best, but the scene where she remembers her mother is best handled in the manga (The movie barely showed her backstory when she was battling the final angels, if I remember correctly) Things I also liked in the manga better: The fights - Which flowed more smoothly in my opinion. Toji's relationship with the class rep The faster pacing - The Anime had pacing issues, the manga was faster at telling the story The manga also explained things in a clearer fashion. The only gripe I had with the manga was that I did not like the happy ending, I like the soup ending in the movie much more. Shinji has a sense of responsability, but at what cost? In the anime, at cost of his mental stability and personal sanity, and in the manga, that road to madness isn't developed in the same way. Eva's anime tried to show us the reality of depression, which the media has been treating like a minor problem or a lack of braveness. No it is not a lack of being brave enough to fight, it is a serious mental disorder and grave disease. The manga treates the characters different in order to create a more stable story that was "tumbling down" in the anime. What I consider to be better in the manga is the strong story telling and background creation for each character. They do not have to be antagonic works. Wanking off scene was unnecesary? Don't think so. It is like in Berserk, when Guts . That wasn't unnecesary, was to show how fucked up Guts really was and how strong his inner-hate had become at the moment. With Shinji, I think it is a similar case but trying to show the spectators how little bit of a person he was at the moment. Shinji anime and Shinji manga are really different characters despite being in the same work, one is the reflex of a destroyed human, the other is a more optimistic person (scenes that happen in the same way mean to have different reactions from Shinji). What made Asuka that GREAT in the anime, his broken mind and aggresive character trying to focus some attention on her in order to have some relief for not being alone are gone in the manga. Yeah the backstory might be better told but what marked Asuka as a character was replaced with a more stable and calmed personality. Asuka is not just a Tsundere, she's human, and that is what I think Eva's anime tried so hard to say. As for people, I do not really think that if they say it, it has to be true. I've heard the exact same thing but backwards, saying Shinji anime is more realistic and human than in the manga. |
PentagramShogoki said: Optigisa said: Evangelion's manga wrote Shinji to have a sense of responsibility, without having to shove the idea of him being depressed constantly in the viewer's face, which got a bit repetitious in the Anime series. While I consider End of Evangelion to be the best out of all Eva works, the wanking off scene was very unnecessary and only served as shock factor to the audience. Instead of that, the manga gave us more characterization to Asuka as she went ham on Shinji in that scene, which added more to her character of " being angry at everyone around her". Shinji is depressed in both works, yes, but he is handled better in the manga version, because the manga manages to make him stand out a bit rather than to be so depressed all the time. Really, if you read the forum comments on every Eva chapter, you will see some comments saying they like the Shinji of the manga better than his Anime counterpart, because he is less depressed and handled better there. As for Asuka, I like her EoE personality the best, but the scene where she remembers her mother is best handled in the manga (The movie barely showed her backstory when she was battling the final angels, if I remember correctly) Things I also liked in the manga better: The fights - Which flowed more smoothly in my opinion. Toji's relationship with the class rep The faster pacing - The Anime had pacing issues, the manga was faster at telling the story The manga also explained things in a clearer fashion. The only gripe I had with the manga was that I did not like the happy ending, I like the soup ending in the movie much more. Shinji has a sense of responsability, but at what cost? In the anime, at cost of his mental stability and personal sanity, and in the manga, that road to madness isn't developed in the same way. Eva's anime tried to show us the reality of depression, which the media has been treating like a minor problem or a lack of braveness. No it is not a lack of being brave enough to fight, it is a serious mental disorder and grave disease. The manga treates the characters different in order to create a more stable story that was "tumbling down" in the anime. What I consider to be better in the manga is the strong story telling and background creation for each character. They do not have to be antagonic works. Wanking off scene was unnecesary? Don't think so. It is like in Berserk, when Guts . That wasn't unnecesary, was to show how fucked up Guts really was and how strong his inner-hate had become at the moment. With Shinji, I think it is a similar case but trying to show the spectators how little bit of a person he was at the moment. Shinji anime and Shinji manga are really different characters despite being in the same work, one is the reflex of a destroyed human, the other is a more optimistic person (scenes that happen in the same way mean to have different reactions from Shinji). What made Asuka that GREAT in the anime, his broken mind and aggresive character trying to focus some attention on her in order to have some relief for not being alone are gone in the manga. Yeah the backstory might be better told but what marked Asuka as a character was replaced with a more stable and calmed personality. Asuka is not just a Tsundere, she's human, and that is what I think Eva's anime tried so hard to say. As for people, I do not really think that if they say it, it has to be true. I've heard the exact same thing but backwards, saying Shinji anime is more realistic and human than in the manga. Eva's Anime did not develop Shinji as well as the manga. The manga showed his inner monologues with himself at the beginning of the first chapter, which made us, the viewer, empathize more with him and his character. During the beginning of the Evangelion Anime, we are not shown anything about Shinji, which makes it harder to familiarize with him. The manga succeeds at characterizing Shinji better from the very first chapter. Also, how does the manga treat the characters differently in order to avoid the "tumbling down" ending you speak of? The manga's ending is literally as crazy as the End of Evangelion, everything happens exactly the same as what happened in EoE, excluding the wacking off scene and the happy conclusion of course. The only difference here is that the manga just characterized Shinji in a better fashion, it gave him more monologues so that the audience can familiarize and relate with him more, and it made him more rational in his decision making skills, rather than being mentally messed up and irrational at all times. With Shinji, I think it is a similar case but trying to show the spectators how little bit of a person he was at the moment. I disagree. No, a depressed person would not do such a thing, the hospital scene is shock factor for the sake of being shock factor. An actual good example of Shinji becoming crazy and messed up, without it feeling forced, is when Shinji goes crazy at the sight of Rei becoming Lilith during EoE. In that scene, we could understand why Shinji was acting the way he was acting, why he became insane and broken. Both the movie and the manga handled that scene well, the only difference is that the manga trimmed out the unnecessary shock factor scenes. Also, correct me if I am wrong (haven't read the Berserk manga), but didn't Guts become insane in that particular scene because a demon (the beast of darkness) was possessing him due to Griffith's cursed mark? Not because he was actually broken? That comparison between Shinji and Guts does not hold up because Shinji does not have a demon possessing him, and it barely makes sense regarding his character. With Guts, it does make sense, since he was being controlled by the beast of darkness at that time. The beast of darkness keeps on coaxing Guts into giving into his inner darkness, while Shinji has no super natural being to persuade him into doing what he did. If Evangelion had introduced the possibility of angels controlling humans and Evas, then that scene would have been understandable, because Shinji does something out of the blue in that hospital scene. Shinji anime and Shinji manga are really different characters despite being in the same work, one is the reflex of a destroyed human, the other is a more optimistic person The Shinji in the manga is not optimistic except for some scenes, and the Shinji in the Anime has his optimistic moments as well. The manga Shinji is messed up, but still rational. People can be more depressed and still think more rationally than others. It is just a different take regarding his character. He is not really "more optimistic" What made Asuka that GREAT in the anime, his broken mind and aggresive character trying to focus some attention on her in order to have some relief for not being alone are gone in the manga Again, I disagree. Asuka is still the same as she was in the Anime, the only things that were changed about her are her introduction (which showed off her arrogant character in a better way), her backstory (which was better executed in the manga) and her hospital scene (which made sense considering she was going insane at that time, and was not being rational at all.) Aside from that, her character was pretty much the same narcissistic and arrogant girl who just wanted to be loved. https://s3.mkklcdnv3.com/mangakakalot/n1/neon_genesis_evangelion/vol4_chapter_25_shall_we_dance/11.jpg https://s3.mkklcdnv3.com/mangakakalot/n1/neon_genesis_evangelion/vol4_chapter_25_shall_we_dance/13.jpg https://s3.mkklcdnv3.com/mangakakalot/n1/neon_genesis_evangelion/vol4_chapter_25_shall_we_dance/15.jpg https://s3.mkklcdnv3.com/mangakakalot/n1/neon_genesis_evangelion/vol8_chapter_56_jealousy/28.jpg These are just some examples of Asuka acting the same way she did in the Anime, I wish I could find more. As you can see, her character has not changed at all from her Anime counterpart, except for some minor (and better) changes. As for people, I do not really think that if they say it, it has to be true. I've heard the exact same thing but backwards, saying Shinji anime is more realistic and human than in the manga. It was just an example to show how people have different opinions. |
| Think of them as 2 different universes, honestly The original Eva anime is amazing. Visually, story-wise, music-wise, cinematography-wise, everything. It is definitely an essential watch before the manga. The manga, though, corrects the small number of problems there was with the anime, handles the characters better, and overall is a better story all together, I'd say. |
Optigisa said: PentagramShogoki said: Shinji has a sense of responsability, but at what cost? In the anime, at cost of his mental stability and personal sanity, and in the manga, that road to madness isn't developed in the same way. Eva's anime tried to show us the reality of depression, which the media has been treating like a minor problem or a lack of braveness. No it is not a lack of being brave enough to fight, it is a serious mental disorder and grave disease. The manga treates the characters different in order to create a more stable story that was "tumbling down" in the anime. What I consider to be better in the manga is the strong story telling and background creation for each character. They do not have to be antagonic works. Wanking off scene was unnecesary? Don't think so. It is like in Berserk, when Guts . That wasn't unnecesary, was to show how fucked up Guts really was and how strong his inner-hate had become at the moment. With Shinji, I think it is a similar case but trying to show the spectators how little bit of a person he was at the moment. Shinji anime and Shinji manga are really different characters despite being in the same work, one is the reflex of a destroyed human, the other is a more optimistic person (scenes that happen in the same way mean to have different reactions from Shinji). What made Asuka that GREAT in the anime, his broken mind and aggresive character trying to focus some attention on her in order to have some relief for not being alone are gone in the manga. Yeah the backstory might be better told but what marked Asuka as a character was replaced with a more stable and calmed personality. Asuka is not just a Tsundere, she's human, and that is what I think Eva's anime tried so hard to say. As for people, I do not really think that if they say it, it has to be true. I've heard the exact same thing but backwards, saying Shinji anime is more realistic and human than in the manga. Eva's Anime did not develop Shinji as well as the manga. The manga showed his inner monologues with himself at the beginning of the first chapter, which made us, the viewer, empathize more with him and his character. During the beginning of the Evangelion Anime, we are not shown anything about Shinji, which makes it harder to familiarize with him. The manga succeeds at characterizing Shinji better from the very first chapter. Also, how does the manga treat the characters differently in order to avoid the "tumbling down" ending you speak of? The manga's ending is literally as crazy as the End of Evangelion, everything happens exactly the same as what happened in EoE, excluding the wacking off scene and the happy conclusion of course. The only difference here is that the manga just characterized Shinji in a better fashion, it gave him more monologues so that the audience can familiarize and relate with him more, and it made him more rational in his decision making skills, rather than being mentally messed up and irrational at all times. With Shinji, I think it is a similar case but trying to show the spectators how little bit of a person he was at the moment. I disagree. No, a depressed person would not do such a thing, the hospital scene is shock factor for the sake of being shock factor. An actual good example of Shinji becoming crazy and messed up, without it feeling forced, is when Shinji goes crazy at the sight of Rei becoming Lilith during EoE. In that scene, we could understand why Shinji was acting the way he was acting, why he became insane and broken. Both the movie and the manga handled that scene well, the only difference is that the manga trimmed out the unnecessary shock factor scenes. Also, correct me if I am wrong (haven't read the Berserk manga), but didn't Guts become insane in that particular scene because a demon (the beast of darkness) was possessing him due to Griffith's cursed mark? Not because he was actually broken? That comparison between Shinji and Guts does not hold up because Shinji does not have a demon possessing him, and it barely makes sense regarding his character. With Guts, it does make sense, since he was being controlled by the beast of darkness at that time. The beast of darkness keeps on coaxing Guts into giving into his inner darkness, while Shinji has no super natural being to persuade him into doing what he did. If Evangelion had introduced the possibility of angels controlling humans and Evas, then that scene would have been understandable, because Shinji does something out of the blue in that hospital scene. Shinji anime and Shinji manga are really different characters despite being in the same work, one is the reflex of a destroyed human, the other is a more optimistic person The Shinji in the manga is not optimistic except for some scenes, and the Shinji in the Anime has his optimistic moments as well. The manga Shinji is messed up, but still rational. People can be more depressed and still think more rationally than others. It is just a different take regarding his character. He is not really "more optimistic" What made Asuka that GREAT in the anime, his broken mind and aggresive character trying to focus some attention on her in order to have some relief for not being alone are gone in the manga Again, I disagree. Asuka is still the same as she was in the Anime, the only things that were changed about her are her introduction (which showed off her arrogant character in a better way), her backstory (which was better executed in the manga) and her hospital scene (which made sense considering she was going insane at that time, and was not being rational at all.) Aside from that, her character was pretty much the same narcissistic and arrogant girl who just wanted to be loved. https://s3.mkklcdnv3.com/mangakakalot/n1/neon_genesis_evangelion/vol4_chapter_25_shall_we_dance/11.jpg https://s3.mkklcdnv3.com/mangakakalot/n1/neon_genesis_evangelion/vol4_chapter_25_shall_we_dance/13.jpg https://s3.mkklcdnv3.com/mangakakalot/n1/neon_genesis_evangelion/vol4_chapter_25_shall_we_dance/15.jpg https://s3.mkklcdnv3.com/mangakakalot/n1/neon_genesis_evangelion/vol8_chapter_56_jealousy/28.jpg These are just some examples of Asuka acting the same way she did in the Anime, I wish I could find more. As you can see, her character has not changed at all from her Anime counterpart, except for some minor (and better) changes. As for people, I do not really think that if they say it, it has to be true. I've heard the exact same thing but backwards, saying Shinji anime is more realistic and human than in the manga. It was just an example to show how people have different opinions. Words and thoughts aren't all you need to understand a character's behavior. As I previously said, Shinji has a more strong backstory (like the story of the bike and the fights with his uncles) but it is the exact same way that the anime portrays Shinji's mental disorder: being alone and not having a parental support when he needed it. Most of the things Shinji does in the anime are done in the manga as well, with the exception he may has some more inwarn thoughts. Looking at the ceiling, listening to music lost in his thoughts, those are ways to say something without really telling them, and the manga may have those, but it does not make Shinji a more developed character or to understand better why he does behave like he does because it is exactly the same as the anime shown. During the first Eva chapter, he have Shinji being treated as shit and only getting in the Eva when Rei was used to manipulate him, exactly like the manga did, but adding more depth in the story. The manga treats Shinji as a shonen character most of the times. He is more violent, reacts different to things (in EoE, he did not call the Eva and it came by itself but in the manga he wrathly called for his help and went to help Asuka) and is clearly more positive towards negative experiences, such as Kaworu's death. It is true that this was because how Kaworu's character changed between manga / anime but in the end he was different than in EoE and the anime itself)... Why is it being irrational something bad? Shinji is just a 14yo kid with mental disorder. It is not like he can not make any kind of mistake. In fact, something that makes Shinji such a great character is how himself can not differenciate between good and evil and he's always selfish, trying to find the meaning for his life. Why a depressed person wouldn't act like that? Depressed people are not rational, they can not think correctly, their mind is blind and vague, only suffering. There is not a "unique way" a person can behave in such a difficult circunstance, and since Shinji was clearly looking for Asuka's support, he found in that scene some relief (obviously not defending it, but it is just another way to portrait how broken Shinji was at the moment). Shinji killed Kaworu and become crazy, that is why in EoE he is like that all the time. The Beast of Darkness is in fact Guts's own wrath and fury emboded. He is not "possessed" at all because it is a part of Guts, created by his hate against Griffith and the demonkind. It is a mental state that grew THAT big it became Guts itself. So it would apply to something similar since Guts experienced something that made the Beast of Darkness grew inside him, similar to Shinji (in an obvious minor level). Shinji in the manga does not think that much about things. When killing the Fifth Angel after ignoring Misato's orders, he behave different when she talks to him (do not remember the great difference, I have to reread Eva's manga soon, I really liked it). Asuka in the manga is clonic similar to how it behaves with Shinji and all stuff, but she do not suffer the same. After being defeated by Arael in episode 22, she broke herself to pieces because her objective for being the best in what his mother wanted her to be failed because of Shinji (as she says). She understood how she can't live without others help and understanding and finally his character grew to accept Shinji's existence in the infamous beach scene in End of Evangelion. I really do not have a canon understanding for "best", because what you might find better, for me can be the opposite way, so I think we are discussing totally subjective matters, so it is impossible for us to get any kind of conclussion since technically we are not wrong. That said, I LOVE Eva's manga: I love the story, I love the different approach it had towards some things like characters and details, I love the drawing and I pretty much read it in a single day. Not saying it is "bad" with this argue, I say I enjoyed more the anime since I found it to be better in the things I said before. Again, "better" is a matter of own understanding, so it does not mean it is better. |
PentagramShogoki said: Optigisa said: Eva's Anime did not develop Shinji as well as the manga. The manga showed his inner monologues with himself at the beginning of the first chapter, which made us, the viewer, empathize more with him and his character. During the beginning of the Evangelion Anime, we are not shown anything about Shinji, which makes it harder to familiarize with him. The manga succeeds at characterizing Shinji better from the very first chapter. Also, how does the manga treat the characters differently in order to avoid the "tumbling down" ending you speak of? The manga's ending is literally as crazy as the End of Evangelion, everything happens exactly the same as what happened in EoE, excluding the wacking off scene and the happy conclusion of course. The only difference here is that the manga just characterized Shinji in a better fashion, it gave him more monologues so that the audience can familiarize and relate with him more, and it made him more rational in his decision making skills, rather than being mentally messed up and irrational at all times. I disagree. No, a depressed person would not do such a thing, the hospital scene is shock factor for the sake of being shock factor. An actual good example of Shinji becoming crazy and messed up, without it feeling forced, is when Shinji goes crazy at the sight of Rei becoming Lilith during EoE. In that scene, we could understand why Shinji was acting the way he was acting, why he became insane and broken. Both the movie and the manga handled that scene well, the only difference is that the manga trimmed out the unnecessary shock factor scenes. Also, correct me if I am wrong (haven't read the Berserk manga), but didn't Guts become insane in that particular scene because a demon (the beast of darkness) was possessing him due to Griffith's cursed mark? Not because he was actually broken? That comparison between Shinji and Guts does not hold up because Shinji does not have a demon possessing him, and it barely makes sense regarding his character. With Guts, it does make sense, since he was being controlled by the beast of darkness at that time. The beast of darkness keeps on coaxing Guts into giving into his inner darkness, while Shinji has no super natural being to persuade him into doing what he did. If Evangelion had introduced the possibility of angels controlling humans and Evas, then that scene would have been understandable, because Shinji does something out of the blue in that hospital scene. The Shinji in the manga is not optimistic except for some scenes, and the Shinji in the Anime has his optimistic moments as well. The manga Shinji is messed up, but still rational. People can be more depressed and still think more rationally than others. It is just a different take regarding his character. He is not really "more optimistic" Again, I disagree. Asuka is still the same as she was in the Anime, the only things that were changed about her are her introduction (which showed off her arrogant character in a better way), her backstory (which was better executed in the manga) and her hospital scene (which made sense considering she was going insane at that time, and was not being rational at all.) Aside from that, her character was pretty much the same narcissistic and arrogant girl who just wanted to be loved. https://s3.mkklcdnv3.com/mangakakalot/n1/neon_genesis_evangelion/vol4_chapter_25_shall_we_dance/11.jpg https://s3.mkklcdnv3.com/mangakakalot/n1/neon_genesis_evangelion/vol4_chapter_25_shall_we_dance/13.jpg https://s3.mkklcdnv3.com/mangakakalot/n1/neon_genesis_evangelion/vol4_chapter_25_shall_we_dance/15.jpg https://s3.mkklcdnv3.com/mangakakalot/n1/neon_genesis_evangelion/vol8_chapter_56_jealousy/28.jpg These are just some examples of Asuka acting the same way she did in the Anime, I wish I could find more. As you can see, her character has not changed at all from her Anime counterpart, except for some minor (and better) changes. It was just an example to show how people have different opinions. Words and thoughts aren't all you need to understand a character's behavior. As I previously said, Shinji has a more strong backstory (like the story of the bike and the fights with his uncles) but it is the exact same way that the anime portrays Shinji's mental disorder: being alone and not having a parental support when he needed it. Most of the things Shinji does in the anime are done in the manga as well, with the exception he may has some more inwarn thoughts. Looking at the ceiling, listening to music lost in his thoughts, those are ways to say something without really telling them, and the manga may have those, but it does not make Shinji a more developed character or to understand better why he does behave like he does because it is exactly the same as the anime shown. During the first Eva chapter, he have Shinji being treated as shit and only getting in the Eva when Rei was used to manipulate him, exactly like the manga did, but adding more depth in the story. The manga treats Shinji as a shonen character most of the times. He is more violent, reacts different to things (in EoE, he did not call the Eva and it came by itself but in the manga he wrathly called for his help and went to help Asuka) and is clearly more positive towards negative experiences, such as Kaworu's death. It is true that this was because how Kaworu's character changed between manga / anime but in the end he was different than in EoE and the anime itself)... Why is it being irrational something bad? Shinji is just a 14yo kid with mental disorder. It is not like he can not make any kind of mistake. In fact, something that makes Shinji such a great character is how himself can not differenciate between good and evil and he's always selfish, trying to find the meaning for his life. Why a depressed person wouldn't act like that? Depressed people are not rational, they can not think correctly, their mind is blind and vague, only suffering. There is not a "unique way" a person can behave in such a difficult circunstance, and since Shinji was clearly looking for Asuka's support, he found in that scene some relief (obviously not defending it, but it is just another way to portrait how broken Shinji was at the moment). Shinji killed Kaworu and become crazy, that is why in EoE he is like that all the time. The Beast of Darkness is in fact Guts's own wrath and fury emboded. He is not "possessed" at all because it is a part of Guts, created by his hate against Griffith and the demonkind. It is a mental state that grew THAT big it became Guts itself. So it would apply to something similar since Guts experienced something that made the Beast of Darkness grew inside him, similar to Shinji (in an obvious minor level). Shinji in the manga does not think that much about things. When killing the Fifth Angel after ignoring Misato's orders, he behave different when she talks to him (do not remember the great difference, I have to reread Eva's manga soon, I really liked it). Asuka in the manga is clonic similar to how it behaves with Shinji and all stuff, but she do not suffer the same. After being defeated by Arael in episode 22, she broke herself to pieces because her objective for being the best in what his mother wanted her to be failed because of Shinji (as she says). She understood how she can't live without others help and understanding and finally his character grew to accept Shinji's existence in the infamous beach scene in End of Evangelion. I really do not have a canon understanding for "best", because what you might find better, for me can be the opposite way, so I think we are discussing totally subjective matters, so it is impossible for us to get any kind of conclussion since technically we are not wrong. That said, I LOVE Eva's manga: I love the story, I love the different approach it had towards some things like characters and details, I love the drawing and I pretty much read it in a single day. Not saying it is "bad" with this argue, I say I enjoyed more the anime since I found it to be better in the things I said before. Again, "better" is a matter of own understanding, so it does not mean it is better. The manga treats Shinji as a shonen character most of the times. Again, I disagree. In the manga, Shinji shows clear signs of severe depression and loneliness, just like his Anime counterpart. A shonen character does not tend to show those emotions unless the plot demands it. While yes, you provided examples of scenes portraying Shinji's depression differently in the Anime, you cannot undermine the manga's take on Shinji's depression and say that the manga does not do him justice. I can just say that the Anime did not do Shinji's depression justice simply because it did not give him a good backstory/inner monologues like the manga did. Would that make it's portrayal of Shinji's depression bad/worse? No. Just that I thought the manga's take on his psyche was the better one. Also, Shinji was treated like shit in the first chapter of the manga as well. https://s3.mkklcdnv3.com/mangakakalot/n1/neon_genesis_evangelion/vol1_chapter_2_reunion/19.jpg https://s3.mkklcdnv3.com/mangakakalot/n1/neon_genesis_evangelion/vol1_chapter_2_reunion/21.jpg And he reacted in the same fashion he did in the first episode. In fact, I would argue that the manga treated Shinji much worse than the Anime because He is more violent By that logic, wouldn't Guts be a shonen MC as well? Being violent does not equate to being a shonen MC. You can have a messed up seinen character who is very violent, even more violent than any shonen MC. Would that make them a shonen MC by default? No. Shinji acted violently in the first couple of episodes in the Anime, just like he did in the first couple of chapters in the manga (During his first fight, when he saved Toji and Kensuke). In the end of Evangelion, he acts more violently. reacts different to things (in EoE, he did not call the Eva and it came by itself but in the manga he wrathly called for his help and went to help Asuka) That is just a different take on his character, like I said above. In fact, this take on his character is actually better and more logical, since it is clearly the end of the world and Asuka is the only person he can cling on to for hope, considering his mother is dead and his father could not bring himself to love him. The only ones who showed any emotions to him were Asuka, Misato and Rei. Misato is dead and Rei is Lilith/not human anymore, so the only person he can save is Asuka. Plus, Misato motivated him in the manga as well, so it would make sense for him to call the Eva in order to save one of the few people who loved him (Misato). Again, it is just a different take on his character. You could just assume that Misato's speech was not motivational enough to push Shinji to his limits during the movie, whereas it did work on Shinji in the manga. Why is it being irrational something bad? Shinji is just a 14yo kid with mental disorder. It is not like he can not make any kind of mistake. In fact, something that makes Shinji such a great character is how himself can not differenciate between good and evil and he's always selfish, trying to find the meaning for his life. I never said that being irrational is something bad. I am just saying that Shinji's character is more rational and that it is a different take. I clearly said that in the above statement: "The manga Shinji is messed up, but still rational. People can be more depressed and still think more rationally than others. It is just a different take regarding his character." Why a depressed person wouldn't act like that? Depressed people are not rational, they can not think correctly, their mind is blind and vague, only suffering. You are confusing depression with insanity. Depressed people are not insane lunatics. Sure, there might be some problems and they may need help, but to say that depressed people cannot think rationally is just wrong. Some people are very good at hiding their depression and can think more rationally than others. Depression is not the loss of being grounded in reality. Shinji never went insane until the very moment he saw transformed Rei in front of him, until then he was only depressed and it would make sense for him to think rationally. Shinji killed Kaworu and become crazy, that is why in EoE he is like that all the time. By that logic, wouldn't Shinji have already become insane in the Anime because Toji got severely injured, blaming himself for Toji's severe injury? The Beast of Darkness is in fact Guts's own wrath and fury emboded. He is not "possessed" at all because it is a part of Guts, created by his hate against Griffith and the demonkind. It is a mental state that grew THAT big it became Guts itself. So it would apply to something similar since Guts experienced something that made the Beast of Darkness grew inside him, similar to Shinji (in an obvious minor level). I have not read Berserk, so I wouldn't know, but I have already provided an example where Shinji's insanity did not feel forced. Asuka in the manga is clonic similar to how it behaves with Shinji and all stuff, but she do not suffer the same. After being defeated by Arael in episode 22, she broke herself to pieces because her objective for being the best in what his mother wanted her to be failed because of Shinji (as she says). She understood how she can't live without others help and understanding and finally his character grew to accept Shinji's existence in the infamous beach scene in End of Evangelion. I really do not have a canon understanding for "best", because what you might find better, for me can be the opposite way, so I think we are discussing totally subjective matters, so it is impossible for us to get any kind of conclussion since technically we are not wrong. Sure, for the record, I did not like the manga's ending. I also have other reasons for why I liked the manga more. |
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