For everyone new to Shield Hero.

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Aug 2018

43

I'm so proud my 4 am rant has created such a debate. Thank you this made my day

Yotus Yeetus commit self-deletus

Jan 8, 2019 3:29 AM

#22

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Aug 2018

43

But contrary to what many are saying, the point I wanted to make was that this isn't what it is at first glance.

For example, just looking at characters and artwork you see-
-OP MC
-Harem of 2(+) waits
-generic baddies

But the MC has to fight for power, the harem is nearly nonexistent, and the fellow heroes aren't your run of the line "aha you're bad I fight and now I dead" antagonists.

I'm by no means saying that Shield Hero is a masterpiece, I just want to state the FACT that this is aces higher than arguably any isekai anime we've had. From what I've read from the source material, I wholeheartedly believe that this could be the best isekai we've had so far.

Another point, what I'm getting from ap1001 is that nothing can be good. From what I've read it leads me to think that in your opinion, nothing can be good and it's gotten to a point where even being unique is mainstream. Also (this could easily be wrong since I don't read many light novels, but enjoy manga) the 3 "revenge isekai" that you've named are 3 out of the 4 slightly popular revenge manga, dungeon seeker included, and only shield hero and arifureta are mainstream IMO.

Also I don't bbelieve you can critique a show because it has a device to push the plot forward. Without the shield, you don't have a story, so critiquing the FACT that Shield Hero uses the idea that he is a shield hero as a plot point is kind of odd.

Yotus Yeetus commit self-deletus

Jan 8, 2019 3:31 AM

#23

lawina

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Jun 2011

42

I tried reading the manga and it was AWFUL, and I mean really juvenile, cringy dialogue and just trying to be funny, but falling flat every single time. I assume the anime is no different, so no thanks.

I would recommend Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken instead, for those looking for isekai. The story is much more unique, and gives a few chuckles here and there.

Jan 8, 2019 4:38 AM

#24

ap1001

Offline

Apr 2014

306

Pontic said:
But contrary to what many are saying, the point I wanted to make was that this isn't what it is at first glance.

For example, just looking at characters and artwork you see-
-OP MC
-Harem of 2(+) waits
-generic baddies

But the MC has to fight for power, the harem is nearly nonexistent, and the fellow heroes aren't your run of the line "aha you're bad I fight and now I dead" antagonists.

I'm by no means saying that Shield Hero is a masterpiece, I just want to state the FACT that this is aces higher than arguably any isekai anime we've had. From what I've read from the source material, I wholeheartedly believe that this could be the best isekai we've had so far.

Another point, what I'm getting from ap1001 is that nothing can be good. From what I've read it leads me to think that in your opinion, nothing can be good and it's gotten to a point where even being unique is mainstream. Also (this could easily be wrong since I don't read many light novels, but enjoy manga) the 3 "revenge isekai" that you've named are 3 out of the 4 slightly popular revenge manga, dungeon seeker included, and only shield hero and arifureta are mainstream IMO.

Also I don't bbelieve you can critique a show because it has a device to push the plot forward. Without the shield, you don't have a story, so critiquing the FACT that Shield Hero uses the idea that he is a shield hero as a plot point is kind of odd.

The first 3 are idiots, and using idiots as antagonist (cause they are) is an example of lazy and shallow. Idiots instantly ruined any suspension of disbelief, since their stupidity defy comprehension, and don't gave me the "there are dumb people in reality as well", the dumb people in reality aren't plot points that eat screen-time.

The later heroes, are literally meh, so meh, I only remembered the whip guys face, and they come way to late to salvage the story.

And no I mean the revenge Isekai trend is not unique in the slightest for WN. But its okay to use template if you know what you are doing, shield doesn't, take the first arc as example, we got dumb villains who got humiliated, and idiot antagonist who also got humiliated, and a power that have no clear limitation that seem to can do a bit of everything.

Let me make this clear, you DO NOT gave your MC an all-purpose superpower UNLESS you are a comedy/SOL, since that takes ALL pretense of threat out of the story.

Monkey D. Luffy's devil fruit is gum-gum fruit, it turns him into rubber, nothing else.
Kamijou Touma's IB negates supernatural powers, nothing else.
What's Naofumi's shield's hard limit? No attack power? It can turn into an cursed shield and do it, and later on he becomes a super DPS. it also can be used as a tamogatchi thingy that trains pets, and other random assortment of stuffs, he NEVER suffered a downside due to it.

Because the power is so random and cheap, it takes one out of the story as you know the next enemy that come up would be defeated by another power-up that comes out cheaply. You want to have a device to push the plot? Fine, but the plot device cannot also be the MC's all purpose superpower, same as you cannot breed rabbits and velociraptors in the same pen, your "serious" story falls apart.

Also I don't gave a shit about whether a story have a harem or not, you are still not deviating from romance, besides you think that other stories don't choose a girl? Getting all the girls, now that there is the one that is chosen less, true harems are a rarity now days. But honestly none of it matters if the story is engaging enough to take one's mind off the romance (which is no deeper than any other LN/WN), but it isn't, so there's that.

ap1001Jan 8, 2019 4:42 AM

"You had no free will, you chased your vices along the same path as all of the others." - Shikieiki Yamaxanadu, Diamond in the rough

Jan 8, 2019 5:15 AM

#25

logopolis

Offline

Apr 2012

2847

It doesn't sound like a "fanservice slave harem" to me, it looks like a misogynistic and somewhat misanthropic persecution complex fantasy to me, which just happens to contain something like a fanservice slave harem because of course it does. Can't trust women you don't have power over.

Jan 8, 2019 6:04 AM

#26

Cabron

Offline

Jan 2013

5351

ap1001 said:

Pontic said:
But contrary to what many are saying, the point I wanted to make was that this isn't what it is at first glance.

For example, just looking at characters and artwork you see-
-OP MC
-Harem of 2(+) waits
-generic baddies

But the MC has to fight for power, the harem is nearly nonexistent, and the fellow heroes aren't your run of the line "aha you're bad I fight and now I dead" antagonists.

I'm by no means saying that Shield Hero is a masterpiece, I just want to state the FACT that this is aces higher than arguably any isekai anime we've had. From what I've read from the source material, I wholeheartedly believe that this could be the best isekai we've had so far.

Another point, what I'm getting from ap1001 is that nothing can be good. From what I've read it leads me to think that in your opinion, nothing can be good and it's gotten to a point where even being unique is mainstream. Also (this could easily be wrong since I don't read many light novels, but enjoy manga) the 3 "revenge isekai" that you've named are 3 out of the 4 slightly popular revenge manga, dungeon seeker included, and only shield hero and arifureta are mainstream IMO.

Also I don't bbelieve you can critique a show because it has a device to push the plot forward. Without the shield, you don't have a story, so critiquing the FACT that Shield Hero uses the idea that he is a shield hero as a plot point is kind of odd.

The first 3 are idiots, and using idiots as antagonist (cause they are) is an example of lazy and shallow. Idiots instantly ruined any suspension of disbelief, since their stupidity defy comprehension, and don't gave me the "there are dumb people in reality as well", the dumb people in reality aren't plot points that eat screen-time.

The later heroes, are literally meh, so meh, I only remembered the whip guys face, and they come way to late to salvage the story.

And no I mean the revenge Isekai trend is not unique in the slightest for WN. But its okay to use template if you know what you are doing, shield doesn't, take the first arc as example, we got dumb villains who got humiliated, and idiot antagonist who also got humiliated, and a power that have no clear limitation that seem to can do a bit of everything.

Let me make this clear, you DO NOT gave your MC an all-purpose superpower UNLESS you are a comedy/SOL, since that takes ALL pretense of threat out of the story.

Monkey D. Luffy's devil fruit is gum-gum fruit, it turns him into rubber, nothing else.
Kamijou Touma's IB negates supernatural powers, nothing else.
What's Naofumi's shield's hard limit? No attack power? It can turn into an cursed shield and do it, and later on he becomes a super DPS. it also can be used as a tamogatchi thingy that trains pets, and other random assortment of stuffs, he NEVER suffered a downside due to it.

Because the power is so random and cheap, it takes one out of the story as you know the next enemy that come up would be defeated by another power-up that comes out cheaply. You want to have a device to push the plot? Fine, but the plot device cannot also be the MC's all purpose superpower, same as you cannot breed rabbits and velociraptors in the same pen, your "serious" story falls apart.

Also I don't gave a shit about whether a story have a harem or not, you are still not deviating from romance, besides you think that other stories don't choose a girl? Getting all the girls, now that there is the one that is chosen less, true harems are a rarity now days. But honestly none of it matters if the story is engaging enough to take one's mind off the romance (which is no deeper than any other LN/WN), but it isn't, so there's that.

Well no, is there a rulebook for that?
Because otherwise there's nothing wrong with that if you know how to pull it off.

Please learn about cel animation and its technical process.
Learn how special effects and backlighting were done without computers.

Jan 8, 2019 6:27 AM

#27

Offline

Aug 2018

43

logopolis said:
It doesn't sound like a "fanservice slave harem" to me, it looks like a misogynistic and somewhat misanthropic persecution complex fantasy to me, which just happens to contain something like a fanservice slave harem because of course it does. Can't trust women you don't have power over.

It has nothing to do with gender. At least in the Manga, MC doesn't care about gender. All he knows is that someone stabbed him in the back and as a result people don't trust him so why should he trust them back?

ap1001 said:

Pontic said:
But contrary to what many are saying, the point I wanted to make was that this isn't what it is at first glance.

For example, just looking at characters and artwork you see-
-OP MC
-Harem of 2(+) waits
-generic baddies

But the MC has to fight for power, the harem is nearly nonexistent, and the fellow heroes aren't your run of the line "aha you're bad I fight and now I dead" antagonists.

I'm by no means saying that Shield Hero is a masterpiece, I just want to state the FACT that this is aces higher than arguably any isekai anime we've had. From what I've read from the source material, I wholeheartedly believe that this could be the best isekai we've had so far.

Another point, what I'm getting from ap1001 is that nothing can be good. From what I've read it leads me to think that in your opinion, nothing can be good and it's gotten to a point where even being unique is mainstream. Also (this could easily be wrong since I don't read many light novels, but enjoy manga) the 3 "revenge isekai" that you've named are 3 out of the 4 slightly popular revenge manga, dungeon seeker included, and only shield hero and arifureta are mainstream IMO.

Also I don't bbelieve you can critique a show because it has a device to push the plot forward. Without the shield, you don't have a story, so critiquing the FACT that Shield Hero uses the idea that he is a shield hero as a plot point is kind of odd.

The first 3 are idiots, and using idiots as antagonist (cause they are) is an example of lazy and shallow. Idiots instantly ruined any suspension of disbelief, since their stupidity defy comprehension, and don't gave me the "there are dumb people in reality as well", the dumb people in reality aren't plot points that eat screen-time.

The later heroes, are literally meh, so meh, I only remembered the whip guys face, and they come way to late to salvage the story.

And no I mean the revenge Isekai trend is not unique in the slightest for WN. But its okay to use template if you know what you are doing, shield doesn't, take the first arc as example, we got dumb villains who got humiliated, and idiot antagonist who also got humiliated, and a power that have no clear limitation that seem to can do a bit of everything.

Let me make this clear, you DO NOT gave your MC an all-purpose superpower UNLESS you are a comedy/SOL, since that takes ALL pretense of threat out of the story.

Monkey D. Luffy's devil fruit is gum-gum fruit, it turns him into rubber, nothing else.
Kamijou Touma's IB negates supernatural powers, nothing else.
What's Naofumi's shield's hard limit? No attack power? It can turn into an cursed shield and do it, and later on he becomes a super DPS. it also can be used as a tamogatchi thingy that trains pets, and other random assortment of stuffs, he NEVER suffered a downside due to it.

Because the power is so random and cheap, it takes one out of the story as you know the next enemy that come up would be defeated by another power-up that comes out cheaply. You want to have a device to push the plot? Fine, but the plot device cannot also be the MC's all purpose superpower, same as you cannot breed rabbits and velociraptors in the same pen, your "serious" story falls apart.

Also I don't gave a shit about whether a story have a harem or not, you are still not deviating from romance, besides you think that other stories don't choose a girl? Getting all the girls, now that there is the one that is chosen less, true harems are a rarity now days. But honestly none of it matters if the story is engaging enough to take one's mind off the romance (which is no deeper than any other LN/WN), but it isn't, so there's that.

While I guess you are right about the later arcs, I feel that the first 20 or so chapters of manga before the queen business were good because he's got to solve stuff on his own and he discovers his power on his own, but later on it does become a bit OP. oh well, I like it, you don't have to, but my point remains that this is great, for an isekai.

Yotus Yeetus commit self-deletus

Jan 8, 2019 6:39 AM

#28

Offline

Apr 2018

614

ap1001 said:

Dhyan_manu said:

I bet you only read volume 1 or 2 since victimization gets cleared in volume 4 and then onwards main issues comes to picture like the waves and other characters. It is clear you haven't read much of the LN when you said there is no character progression. I can clearly remember the grinding scenes and experimentation by absorbing different materials, monster bodies unlocking exhaust able number of shields which are more than 30 to 40 if I remember correctly from LN it's not in manga though.

Ugh, yeah I did mention that, do you not see the Doraemon power-up, the queen and all the other shit I mentioned?

And wow, grinding and eating to gain power, gee, what a hard working and hard to get power-up, wait didn't I see this before? Yes, in EVERY GODDAMN ISEKAI, you gain power-up by eating (or something similar) and infinitely power-up.

Gee, that is some hard effort there. The LN and WN's downfall was not there was no character progression, its the fact, that the beginning cast consists of Idiots and MC (and his slave waifu, bird daughter), and later change to every isekai ever, go to places punches villains with no ideals (and most are even weak), fighting fights with no ideals, and getting new power-ups.

Character progression is literally just new power-ups, and maybe romantically. Kid if I want to watch power-ups, I watch every other shounen, which are all infinitely better, and yes, I am including fairy tail. And at least shounen's have the intelligence to have a strict power system (chakra, zanpakuto, devil fruits), this is just random power as plot demand. Like the egg shield, or the later turtle shield, and let's not forget, the cursed shield, which gives attacking power (and looks super edgy).

The shield is a plot power, it can do whatever the plot needed power up at the moment, it have no strict limits. Video game power up and eating gain power (or combining to gain power) is the most asspull way to gain it. There is no ideal, no theme, not even goddamn "friendship power", at least "friendship power" promotes positive messages, what does this promote? That I am so smart, that I figured out I can toss something into something, and gain limitless possibility like Doraemon's pocket?

Why the fuck are u assuming a show needs to have a positive message? It's a fucking piece of entertainment, it has literally no reason to be more than that, if some shows want to go in that direction, good for them, but assuming a show MUST go in that direction is probably one of the dumbest argument I've ever read, and trust me, I've read a lot of bad arguments.
You're so egocentric you assume you're point of view is right and argue like that's a given fact.
Your arguments should prove your point, your point isn't a fucking argument goddammit.

vhagar8Jan 8, 2019 6:56 AM

Jan 8, 2019 6:47 AM

#29

Vecko

Offline

Mar 2016

243

Why do you want other people to watch what you like anyway?

NANACHO FOR PRESIDENT

Jan 8, 2019 9:01 AM

#30

Offline

Aug 2018

43

Vecko said:
Why do you want other people to watch what you like anyway?

I'm not trying to force people to watch it, I just don't like it when people glance at it and talk shit because it's an isekai.

Yotus Yeetus commit self-deletus

Jan 8, 2019 9:47 AM

#31

logopolis

Offline

Apr 2012

2847

Pontic said:
It has nothing to do with gender. At least in the Manga, MC doesn't care about gender. All he knows is that someone stabbed him in the back and as a result people don't trust him so why should he trust them back?

It's the narrative which has that attitude, not the character.

Jan 8, 2019 1:57 PM

#32

Cabron

Offline

Jan 2013

5351

Pontic said:

Vecko said:
Why do you want other people to watch what you like anyway?

I'm not trying to force people to watch it, I just don't like it when people glance at it and talk shit because it's an isekai.

Sadly that's modern isekai for you.

Please learn about cel animation and its technical process.
Learn how special effects and backlighting were done without computers.

Jan 8, 2019 2:21 PM

#33

Offline

Aug 2018

43

Cabron said:

Pontic said:

I'm not trying to force people to watch it, I just don't like it when people glance at it and talk shit because it's an isekai.

Sadly that's modern isekai for you.

Yea man, it sucks that a genre that has potential was propelled into the mainstream audience by a show like sword art online and even now has at least one typical shit isekai every season. This oversaturation of shitty isekai has altered the way people look at isekai.

Even if the people who watch and like isekai preach how this is different, we'll still have truck-kun's loads of in another world with my smartphone, master of ragnarock, and death marches.

The only thing worse than shit isekai and fantasy anime, which are so filled with basic harem fanservice and stereotypical overpowered main characters is the fact that

THERE

IS

SO

MUCH

MORE

SOURCE

MATERIAL

Thank you Japan, for providing the basis for there to be 3 shitty fantasy anime a year.

PonticJan 8, 2019 3:07 PM

Yotus Yeetus commit self-deletus

Jan 8, 2019 2:37 PM

#34

Offline

Apr 2018

614

Cabron said:

Pontic said:

I'm not trying to force people to watch it, I just don't like it when people glance at it and talk shit because it's an isekai.

Sadly that's modern isekai for you.

I'd rather say "sadly that's modern anime fans for you"

Jan 8, 2019 2:42 PM

#35

Offline

Dec 2013

2104

Just here to show my support to ap1001. I wholeheartedly agree about the persecution complex. By now everyone probably already knows I hate the story :D

I've read up to vol 7 of the LNs.

Jan 8, 2019 2:43 PM

#36

Offline

Apr 2018

614

Pontic said:

Cabron said:

Sadly that's modern isekai for you.

Yea man, it sucks that a genre that has potential was propelled into the mainstream audience by a show like sword art online and even now has at least one typical shit isekai every season. This oversaturation of shitty isekai has altered the way people look at isekai.

Even if the people who watch and like isekai preach how this is different, we'll still have truck-kun's loads of in another world with my smartphone, master of ragnarock, and death marches.

The only thing worse than shit isekai and fantasy anime, which are so filled with basic harem fanservice and stereotypical overpowered main characters is the fact that

THERE

IS

SO

MUCH

MORE

SOURCE

MATERIAL

Thank you Japan, for providing the basis for there to be 3 shorty fantasy anime a year.

I mean, I don't want to say every isekai out there is good, because it's cleary not the case, as for any genre.
But still, is shitting on other isekai really the best way to complain about the shit-talking on the ones that you like?

Jan 8, 2019 2:50 PM

#37

Offline

Apr 2018

614

NthDegree said:
Just here to show my support to ap1001. I wholeheartedly agree about the persecution complex. By now everyone probably already knows I hate the story :D

I've read up to vol 7 of the LNs.

I feel like the persucution complex is more than fair if the show has such dedicated persecutors lol
Anyway if you hated the show that much, how did you make it that far in the LN? I mean, you're free to use your time as u pref, but still, do you hate yourself as much as you hate the show to force yourself that far?

Jan 8, 2019 2:58 PM

#38

Offline

Dec 2013

2104

vhagar8 said:

NthDegree said:
Just here to show my support to ap1001. I wholeheartedly agree about the persecution complex. By now everyone probably already knows I hate the story :D

I've read up to vol 7 of the LNs.

I feel like the persucution complex is more than fair if the show has such dedicated persecutors lol
Anyway if you hated the show that much, how did you make it that far in the LN? I mean, you're free to use your time as u pref, but still, do you hate yourself as much as you hate the show to force yourself that far?

Hey, everyone is bored sometimes. Like when I'm arguing on these threads lol.

Anyway, as for the persecution complex... The thing is that none of the characters in the first ep even have any reason to hate the MC nor does the woman who scammed him have any need for money (believe me, she's loaded as it is). The best motivation we get is just that vague legend... but even then the other heroes are also kinda jerks to the MC even though they don't believe in this world's religion or legends. So my point is: everyone is nasty to the MC for no other reason than... apparently every single important character who isn't a waifu is an evil jerk? It just says a lot about the author's attitude about other people... And even if it didn't, it's both lazy writing and unpleasant to read.

Jan 8, 2019 3:13 PM

#39

Offline

Aug 2018

43

NthDegree said:

vhagar8 said:

I feel like the persucution complex is more than fair if the show has such dedicated persecutors lol
Anyway if you hated the show that much, how did you make it that far in the LN? I mean, you're free to use your time as u pref, but still, do you hate yourself as much as you hate the show to force yourself that far?

Hey, everyone is bored sometimes. Like when I'm arguing on these threads lol.

Anyway, as for the persecution complex... The thing is that none of the characters in the first ep even have any reason to hate the MC nor does the woman who scammed him have any need for money (believe me, she's loaded as it is). The best motivation we get is just that vague legend... but even then the other heroes are also kinda jerks to the MC even though they don't believe in this world's religion or legends. So my point is: everyone is nasty to the MC for no other reason than... apparently every single important character who isn't a waifu is an evil jerk? It just says a lot about the author's attitude about other people... And even if it didn't, it's both lazy writing and unpleasant to read.

If your saying that the persecution is without reason, that's simply not true. The kingdom they are summoned to is ruled by the religion of the three heroes and actively preaches that the shield hero is a degenerate who is below human because he helped demi-humans during his original lifespan. This fusing with the modern world hatred towards rapists. Think of it like this, if a beautiful, charming, and well-off woman accused a random man of rape and her lingerie was found with the man, who would you believe?

While it isn't the most rock solid reason for hatred, and is there not to be a solid idea but rather a plot point that passes, it still provides a decent explanation in my opinion.

Yotus Yeetus commit self-deletus

Jan 8, 2019 3:17 PM

#40

Anowser

Offline

Oct 2015

310

Does the MC gets OP though ? I really like OP characters but I dislike what has become isekai animes nowadays

Jan 8, 2019 3:27 PM

#41

Offline

Apr 2018

614

NthDegree said:

vhagar8 said:

I feel like the persucution complex is more than fair if the show has such dedicated persecutors lol
Anyway if you hated the show that much, how did you make it that far in the LN? I mean, you're free to use your time as u pref, but still, do you hate yourself as much as you hate the show to force yourself that far?

Hey, everyone is bored sometimes. Like when I'm arguing on these threads lol.

Anyway, as for the persecution complex... The thing is that none of the characters in the first ep even have any reason to hate the MC nor does the woman who scammed him have any need for money (believe me, she's loaded as it is). The best motivation we get is just that vague legend... but even then the other heroes are also kinda jerks to the MC even though they don't believe in this world's religion or legends. So my point is: everyone is nasty to the MC for no other reason than... apparently every single important character who isn't a waifu is an evil jerk? It just says a lot about the author's attitude about other people... And even if it didn't, it's both lazy writing and unpleasant to read.

It was a joke lol
I see what you mean with the whole persecution complex thing and I can agree to an extent on that. But honestly, saying that "it says a lot about the author's attitude toward other people" sounds a little too much to me, I'd rather just say that the characterization of most of the characters isn't that great.
Anyway it doesn't bother me as much as it seems to bother u, especially beacuase I find the story fairy entertaing so I don't really care if it has some flaws here and there

Jan 8, 2019 3:28 PM

#42

Offline

Dec 2013

2104

Pontic said:

NthDegree said:

Hey, everyone is bored sometimes. Like when I'm arguing on these threads lol.

Anyway, as for the persecution complex... The thing is that none of the characters in the first ep even have any reason to hate the MC nor does the woman who scammed him have any need for money (believe me, she's loaded as it is). The best motivation we get is just that vague legend... but even then the other heroes are also kinda jerks to the MC even though they don't believe in this world's religion or legends. So my point is: everyone is nasty to the MC for no other reason than... apparently every single important character who isn't a waifu is an evil jerk? It just says a lot about the author's attitude about other people... And even if it didn't, it's both lazy writing and unpleasant to read.

If your saying that the persecution is without reason, that's simply not true. The kingdom they are summoned to is ruled by the religion of the three heroes and actively preaches that the shield hero is a degenerate who is below human because he helped demi-humans during his original lifespan. This fusing with the modern world hatred towards rapists. Think of it like this, if a beautiful, charming, and well-off woman accused a random man of rape and her lingerie was found with the man, who would you believe?

While it isn't the most rock solid reason for hatred, and is there not to be a solid idea but rather a plot point that passes, it still provides a decent explanation in my opinion.

So what would you say was the woman's motivation for doing any of this? Other than the author wanting to prove that women are harlots and to get everyone hate the MC. I hope you like waiting for explanations because you won't even get an excuse of a motivation before the final stretch.

The problem is, a lot of people find the explanations extremely contrived, which is why you get so many people complaining about a persecution complex. Additionally, it's also the fact that the whole cast seems to be completely unanimous with hate, not a single person being skeptical. Especially about something like rape when IRL victim blaming is so much more common? It all seems very contrived to make the MC the perfect martyr.

Btw this is unrelated, but the flanderization of the other heroes later on also gets quite ridiculous. Like wow, does the author really hate humanity this much?

@vhagar8 That's fine. My beef is with the show and its author, not the people who enjoy it. Basically I just want people to see the points I'm making, not to make them hate it.

Jan 8, 2019 3:38 PM

#43

Offline

Aug 2018

43

NthDegree said:

Pontic said:

If your saying that the persecution is without reason, that's simply not true. The kingdom they are summoned to is ruled by the religion of the three heroes and actively preaches that the shield hero is a degenerate who is below human because he helped demi-humans during his original lifespan. This fusing with the modern world hatred towards rapists. Think of it like this, if a beautiful, charming, and well-off woman accused a random man of rape and her lingerie was found with the man, who would you believe?

While it isn't the most rock solid reason for hatred, and is there not to be a solid idea but rather a plot point that passes, it still provides a decent explanation in my opinion.

So what would you say was the woman's motivation for doing any of this? Other than the author wanting to prove that women are harlots and to get everyone hate the MC. I hope you like waiting for explanations because you won't even get an excuse of a motivation before the final stretch.

The problem is, a lot of people find the explanations extremely contrived, which is why you get so many people complaining about a persecution complex. Additionally, it's also the fact that the whole cast seems to be completely unanimous with hate, not a single person being skeptical. Especially about something like rape when IRL victim blaming is so much more common? It all seems very contrived to make the MC the perfect martyr.

Btw this is unrelated, but the flanderization of the other heroes later on also gets quite ridiculous. Like wow, does the author really hate humanity this much?

@vhagar8 That's fine. My beef is with the show and its author, not the people who enjoy it. Basically I just want people to see the points I'm making, not to make them hate it.

Well, I guess I can't really refute that. I guess the princess is really just a bitch. My friends and I dont even remember her name we just call her bitch princess. Nonetheless, we're both entitled to our opinions and the bleak outlook followed by somewhat of an emotional redemption arc was the type of story I and many others enjoyed.

Another point, I don't really get where the "all women are harlots/bitches" argument is from. I've seen it allot in other people's critiques of this show, but from the Manga so far I haven't really seen any theme of horrible women other than the princess. In fact most women are portrayed in a good way, with the queen and many of the people Naogumi meets on his adventure. While the people in the kingdom harbor animosity toward the shield hero because of the national religion, it is not women who are portrayed as antagonist, but rather people in general.

PonticJan 8, 2019 3:41 PM

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Jan 8, 2019 3:42 PM

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@Pontic Naturally, everyone has their own opinion. I'm just here to provide an alternative viewpoint (or well, originally it was just to support ap1001, who I agree with) to show that not everyone enjoyed it and possible reasons why.

EDIT: It's because the MC's first reaction to seeing even a vague drawing of a princess in a book was literally "she looks too slutty to be a princess". It kinda implies he hates women, if that's your first reaction someone you don't even know. Not to mention the author chose to combo that with false-rape accusation to make the point pretty clear.

NthDegreeJan 8, 2019 3:46 PM

Jan 8, 2019 3:50 PM

#45

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NthDegree said:
@Pontic Naturally, everyone has their own opinion. I'm just here to provide an alternative viewpoint (or well, originally it was just to support ap1001, who I agree with) to show that not everyone enjoyed it and possible reasons why.

EDIT: It's because the MC's first reaction to seeing even a vague drawing of a princess in a book was literally "she looks too slutty to be a princess". It kinda implies he hates women, if that's your first reaction someone you don't even know. Not to mention the author chose to combo that with false-rape accusation to make the point pretty clear.

Imo it's less to slander women, but to just make the point that the princess looks like and is a bitch, as to further antagonize the antagonist.

I don't know if the "she looks a bit like a slut" bit is from the light novels, but it wasn't in the Manga so I didn't really pay attention to that line.

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Jan 8, 2019 3:52 PM

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NthDegree said:

Pontic said:

If your saying that the persecution is without reason, that's simply not true. The kingdom they are summoned to is ruled by the religion of the three heroes and actively preaches that the shield hero is a degenerate who is below human because he helped demi-humans during his original lifespan. This fusing with the modern world hatred towards rapists. Think of it like this, if a beautiful, charming, and well-off woman accused a random man of rape and her lingerie was found with the man, who would you believe?

While it isn't the most rock solid reason for hatred, and is there not to be a solid idea but rather a plot point that passes, it still provides a decent explanation in my opinion.

So what would you say was the woman's motivation for doing any of this? Other than the author wanting to prove that women are harlots and to get everyone hate the MC. I hope you like waiting for explanations because you won't even get an excuse of a motivation before the final stretch.

The problem is, a lot of people find the explanations extremely contrived, which is why you get so many people complaining about a persecution complex. Additionally, it's also the fact that the whole cast seems to be completely unanimous with hate, not a single person being skeptical. Especially about something like rape when IRL victim blaming is so much more common? It all seems very contrived to make the MC the perfect martyr.

Btw this is unrelated, but the flanderization of the other heroes later on also gets quite ridiculous. Like wow, does the author really hate humanity this much?

@vhagar8 That's fine. My beef is with the show and its author, not the people who enjoy it. Basically I just want people to see the points I'm making, not to make them hate it.

I think you're really exagerating there.
"Other than the author wanting to prove that women are harlots"; not every woman in the story is a cunt and, as you said yourself, the other heroes themselves are pretty bad too. The story is fairy filled with "good" and "evil" characters that belongs to both genders so I really don't see where this is coming from.
I personally think that the author isn't just that good at charactering, especially when we're talking about the villains (which btw is perfectly fine since the story started as an amateur work). But saying she is a misogynist because the main villain happens to be a chick just does not make sense to me.

Jan 8, 2019 3:52 PM

#47

VeryLTTP

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NthDegree said:
@Pontic Naturally, everyone has their own opinion. I'm just here to provide an alternative viewpoint (or well, originally it was just to support ap1001, who I agree with) to show that not everyone enjoyed it and possible reasons why.

EDIT: It's because the MC's first reaction to seeing even a vague drawing of a princess in a book was literally "she looks too slutty to be a princess". It kinda implies he hates women, if that's your first reaction someone you don't even know. Not to mention the author chose to combo that with false-rape accusation to make the point pretty clear.

You'd have to prove that he sees the princess as someone representative of all women, which you have not. His comment about Malty's illustration was specifically pointed towards an individual person, not at women as a collective.

Jan 8, 2019 4:12 PM

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@Pontic It doesn't matter whether she actually is antagonistic, because the MC did not know about yet. Because there was no other information to go by, I'm forced to assume that's how he makes judgements on women in general.

@vhagar8 I was speaking in hypothetical, but combining his first reaction at her image ("slut") with the false rape accusation kinda makes it seem that way. I'm geniunely curious on who is a good male character that a) has a major role b) is not a villain?

@VeryLTTP I said it implies that s/he hates women. Surely you are not going to suggest that calling women sluts at first glance does not suggest negative feelings towards them? And I'm talking in plural, because he literally did not know anything about her except for her looks. Considering there was nothing else to judge her by, yes, that does also imply that this is how he makes judgements on women in general.

Jan 8, 2019 4:17 PM

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VeryLTTP

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NthDegree said:
@@VeryLTTP I said it implies that s/he hates women.

Then you need to further understand what imply means. To imply means to suggest. Just because the character the MC judged happened to be a woman, it doesn't mean he was calling all women sluts.

Surely you are not going to suggest that calling women sluts at first glance does not suggest negative feelings towards them?

Women or a woman? I didn't know the princess is actually more than one person.

And I'm talking in plural, because he literally did not know anything about her except for her looks.

Non sequitor. The princess is one woman. Just because the MC did not know anything about her as a person, it does not mean he knows nothing about women.

Considering there was nothing else to judge her by, yes, that does also imply that this is how he makes judgements on women or people in general.

He misjudged one person. That is not indicative of his judgment of all women or people.

Jan 8, 2019 4:21 PM

#50