jarring said: NthDegree said: @jarring Oh and by the way, were you aware that western studios also outsource their animation jobs to Japanese animators? And yes, this includes Disney that you previously said shouldn't be on MAL. Well, turns out you're too late. https://myanimelist.net/anime/5027/Stitch Because this is anime and shows like Avatar and RWBY are not. well as i said before it's because it is distributed in Japan with Japanese dubs. it might be a different thing if it was also distributed in America, but i don't think that was. Roosterteeth, etc are American production companies, and they didn't make those cartoons to be distributed in Japan specifically. I'm not sure if it was distributed in America, but according to ANN, it has been shown at least in Germany and Spain. Unless you want to count those countries to be 'Asia' as well? And as a counter-agrument I might also note that RWBY has also been distributed in Japan and dubbed in Japanese. Heck, when I was in Japan, they were literally broadcasting it on Japanese TV. If you want more examples of western companies outsourcing to Japan while catering to western market, there are also such examples as Linkin Park's Breaking the Habit (animated by Studio Gonzo) and Kill Bill's animated sections (animated by Production IG). Meanwhile something like Neo Yokio is not listed on MAL even though it was animated as a collab between Production IG and Studio DEEN and tries to be anime in style. Really, the only reason I can think of why it isn't there with other western co-productions like aforementioned Shelter (which was also mainly made for Americans to my knowledge, the artist just happened to be really into anime) is because it was bad. In short, with all these co-productions, some of which are listed on MAL and some are not, you cannot claim that MAL listings are not subjective already. Really, it would not be such a big change. |
| @jarring Anyway, as stated before my point here was simply to prove the subjectivity of the current listings. This is why I feel like changing the listing conditions to also allow similarly styled works from other countries would simply reflect the audience experience better than the current methods and would be more sustainable criteria as globalization keeps marching on. Sure, it is subjective, but as we have shown, so are the current listings. Heck, simply the fact that we're having this conversation at all is a proof of that. |
| It should be separated but not removed. Inb4 If dong hua and Korean animation are in MAL, why are not cartoons like Avatar and old Teen Titans in there? |
| Cuteness > Everything else Cuteness is Love, Cuteness is Life |
| I am pro adding significantly outsorced to Japan works. And I have no problem with outsourced anime being around, if Japan can outsource to Korea heavily and still have it called anime.... It would certainly make studios like Topcraft look better. It is annoying to me and I feel works like Mushishi don't fit in with their stance against outsourced works. And it isn't like american works don't have an audience in Japan. Especially Disney works. (Disney these days is made for a worldwide audience not just an american one) Expanding the scope rather than narrowing it feels like a better answer. |
Energetic-NovaSep 27, 2018 11:34 PM
The anime community in a nutshell.  |
jarring said: NthDegree said: I'm not sure if it was distributed in America, but according to ANN, it has been shown at least in Germany and Spain. Unless you want to count those countries to be 'Asia' as well? And as a counter-agrument I might also note that RWBY has also been distributed in Japan and dubbed in Japanese. Heck, when I was in Japan, they were literally broadcasting it on Japanese TV. If you want more examples of western companies outsourcing to Japan while catering to western market, there are also such examples as Linkin Park's Breaking the Habit (animated by Studio Gonzo) and Kill Bill's animated sections (animated by Production IG). Meanwhile something like Neo Yokio is not listed on MAL even though it was animated as a collab between Production IG and Studio DEEN and tries to be anime in style. Really, the only reason I can think of why it isn't there with other western co-productions like aforementioned Shelter (which was also mainly made for Americans to my knowledge, the artist just happened to be really into anime) is because it was bad. In short, with all these co-productions, some of which are listed on MAL and some are not, you cannot claim that MAL listings are not subjective already. Really, it would not be such a big change. No, i would call Germany and Spain Europe. I think what matters is its intended demographic though. It's clear that the original intended demographic for Stitch was Japanese. And yeah, I wouldn't doubt that about RWBY. I'm saying that the distribution rights are most likely what they base what is allowed on MAL. It definitely seems to be the case anyways. It's interesting that Neo Yokio isn't listed here. There is something about it that makes it look distinctly American though, despite its anime influences. I can't quite put my finger on it lol. and yeah I said before, i wouldn't mind if they allowed all the co-productions... Just not stuff like RWBY, Avatar, etc. that just looks like anime. I don't need examples of outsourcing, i know they did that. I gave example of Thundercats, and the reason why they didn't have it on here. IDK why shelter is on here considering it's just a music video... ME!ME!ME! isn't even on here. Seems kinda dumb to have Shelter. I was just defending "western music" in that it should be allowed in anime before. https://myanimelist.net/anime/28149/Nihon_Animator_Mihonichi?q=nihon It is because ME Me Me is apart of this shorts series by Khara. Glad to have helped. Also there are a crapton of music videos including https://myanimelist.net/anime/8626/Good_Morning Which is a Kanye west video. XD Neo Yokio should be here honestly. Just as much as Afro Samurai is here. |
Energetic-NovaSep 27, 2018 11:43 PM
| The anime community in a nutshell. |
I know for sure you're the first one to get blocked by me. Maybe try to tell me which part of your life I should appreciate. |
| Why not make an extension site called MyAnimeCartoonList where you can add all animations and you classify them by country. This way MAL will be for purist japanese animation and dena will score big money. Regarding chinese stuff, I don't watch them, too communist for me, if it were the 80s maybe. |
    |
| They are fine just the way they are. So no. |
 |
| @jarring Okay this is kind of unrelated but... Just that this quote is funny. jarring said: talking about the "globalization of anime" is kind of silly to begin with...especially in regards to what is allowed to be listed as "anime" on a website. Real globalization is a much bigger deal and makes a huge impact on the entire world. Especially when it comes to actual intelligence, industry, technology and weapons I hope that you do realize that the reason globalization is so powerful is because it affects everything. Saying anime is not influenced by it is underestimating it, especially straight after being presented with a ton of co-productions as evidence. Calling just the perceived 'important things' the "real globalization" makes me wonder if you actually even know what the term actually means. Not that I mean to attack you or anything. I just suggest maybe familiarizing yourself with the concept before using it in an argument. |
Catalano said: there already is http://bcdb.com/ (big cartoon database) but the site kinda sucksWhy not make an extension site called MyAnimeCartoonList where you can add all animations and you classify them by country. This way MAL will be for purist japanese animation and dena will score big money. jarring said: if you're feeling frisky you can try to add it and see if it gets accepted or refused; many of my anime entries are music videos xdI mean..i doubt they'd add every music video or piece of film that has some sort of japanese animation in it on this site... seems like it would be a bit much. i just saw a new japanese music video with anime in it.. are they gonna add it too? no right? they shouldn't right? it's just because of the studio right? http://myanimelist.net/panel.php?go=anime_series&do=add there are entries with some live action content out there like twilight of cockroaches also remember, "they" who add anime are normal users like you and me; the mods job is to approve or deny them, and edit information as needed, more than to add them |
 |
| @jarring If you have known for the co-productions for such a long time, then you surely know how much more common they are now than in the past. That is globalization. And if you indeed know about the increase in foreign co-productions, yet still claim that anime is somehow exempt from 'real globalization' that just shows you don't understand what the term means. Well, now you know. By the way, when have I said it 'changes the world'? Or something similar to that? I've only said it is becoming more international, more global, hence globalization. The trend is simply a statistical fact, if you look at the amount of anime that involve foreign creators or co-productions. Oh, and male assumption much, dude? I'm a woman. |
jarring said: the dub seems to be documented to some extent (it has ADR Director credit) , but not even ANN has info on the voice actors@romagia btw, i found an old dvd of a really shitty dub of a really shitty anime that's ON here.. but the dub isn't listed.. like there are no english voice actors listed.. it's nowhere to be found on the internet either. what should i do? i just found the cassette though, I didn't look too hard for the box/sleeve, but i'm sure it's around somewhere in storage or something idk. just don't feel like looking for it right now. just wondering if it would be worth it to do anything with it. I mean it's fucking garbage so i assume it's pointless https://myanimelist.net/anime/3968/Dragoon?q=dragoon if you have voice actor names (like from credits or such), you could go to the english voice actor pages and click "Add a Voice Acting Role" |
|
jarring said: ADR comes from automated dialogue replacement romagia said: the dub seems to be documented to some extent (it has ADR Director credit) , but not even ANN has info on the voice actors if you have voice actor names (like from credits or such), you could go to the english voice actor pages and click "Add a Voice Acting Role" what is ADR Director credit? lol.. I'm not sure if it shows VAs in the credits or not...i'd have to pull out my vhs from storage if i wanted to watch it -_-; IDK where my mom even found this relic.. she just came home with it one day back in the 90s and gave it to me. the cassette is fucking white, only vhs cassette i ever owned that was white. blew my mind. says it was released by ADV.. "In Japanese with English dubbed" lol guess the animation is "in Japanese" im not entirely sure that is either, but it's a process in dubbing i think evangelion was released in white vhs too |
|
| @jarring As I previously stated, I find it amusing more than anything. I see, you're straw manning me pretty hard there. And then comboing it with an ad hominem. Truly spectacular arguing skills there. To put it simply, you first accuse me of believing something I have not stated and then assume things about me that not only you have no way of knowing but are also completely irrelevant to the argument. My personal history or attributes are no concern of yours. As your argument is nothing more than straw men and ad hominem, there is nothing worthwhile for me to reply to aside from calling you out on your fallacies. The only thing it shows is your lack of argumentative skills. |
| @jarring I agree this argument is pointless, so I'll make this my final reply. Oh, so you were offended? In that case let me clarify that I never insulted your intelligence. I simply pointed out that your argument was inconsistent with the definition of the word and that your previous post was riddled with fallacies. You not understanding the terms and lacking argumentative skills are not insults, but simply logical conclusions from those facts. |
jarring said: the second credits reel is suprisingly common nowdays too, especially with all those netflix rips floating aroundromagia said: ADR comes from automated dialogue replacement im not entirely sure that is either, but it's a process in dubbing i think evangelion was released in white vhs too huh.. weird. didn't know about eva being white. i got it on dvd.. :| @romagia actually i've gotten pretty good at identifying voice actors.. maybe i'll dig out my VCR sometime and watch it just for fuks sake and see if I can identify some VAs... maybe even get lucky and get the entire cast during the credits...sometimes they'll have a second credits reel for the english cast behind a black wall after the ED theme ends. |
|
| Nah, Chinese cartoons shouldn't be removed on MAL tho tbh. |
 |
| Anime are listed here when they're linked to Japanese market. So Chinese and Korean can be if they're diffused / linked to Japanese studios. |
 |
cipheron said: ThatRazorGuy said: I'm fine with them staying provided Western anime-esque stuff like Avatar and Castlevania gets added too. Sorry but that idea isn't practical. Why Avatar and Castlevania in particular. Is it because Avatar is "like" a shonen anime? Then, plenty of other cartoons YOU wouldn't consider "anime" are also "like" different types of anime. For example, episodic slice of life animes set at schools MASSIVELY outnumber those Avatar-like shonen adventure animes. So, should all episodic slice of life cartoons set at schools also be added as "anime"? I'm simply pointing out that that's the precedent having "anime" from China and South Korea sets. |
Take care of yourself |
hazecloud said: I know for sure you're the first one to get blocked by me. Maybe try to tell me which part of your life I should appreciate. lol. Dunno why you just got so butthurt. I was just asking why you said tencent was a bad company. |
| Sort of. I have watched King's Avatar and it's sequel OVA. The first season felt really off for me, since it wasn't mainly directed or made by a Japanese staff. I could feel the difference through direction and animation. Oh, and language of course. The OVA, however, felt more akin to a typical anime. It was more simplistic too, so that may have helped. But yeah, I still define anime as Japanese animation exclusively. What is defined as Japanese animation is a whole other argument in itself. Much like Anime is called Anime because it literally means animation in Japanese, Chinese animation should be called Donghua by westerners, animation in Chinese. |
| Welcome to club: Anime that Should Continue http://myanimelist.net/clubs.php?cid=37045 |
| this shouldnt even matter to us, and it is not for us to decide |
| Sonic X is basically an isekai |
| I dont think it should be removed from MAL, but listed seperately from anime. You can add cartoon to if you want, just be sure to give it a seperate list. |
| "This emotion is mine alone. It is for Madoka alone." - Homura or how I would descripe Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica. |
guulaash said: this shouldnt even matter to us, and it is not for us to decide As a consumer of this site it should matter to us and the users should have some say. I just wanted to get a good feel of how many people actually agree with MAL's guidelines. Comander-07 said: I dont think it should be removed from MAL, but listed seperately from anime. You can add cartoon to if you want, just be sure to give it a seperate list. Wouldn't that defeat the whole purpose of the website being called "My Anime List" |
 |
-SP- said: guulaash said: this shouldnt even matter to us, and it is not for us to decide As a consumer of this site it should matter to us and the users should have some say. I just wanted to get a good feel of how many people actually agree with MAL's guidelines. Comander-07 said: I dont think it should be removed from MAL, but listed seperately from anime. You can add cartoon to if you want, just be sure to give it a seperate list. Wouldn't that defeat the whole purpose of the website being called "My Anime List" yes, but since I think the overall site is great for episodic stuff and as a database, might as well expand it. Not that I would benefit from it in any way. But we also have manga, LNs and even music videos here. We could obviously just say anime is animated (duh) with original japanese dub, this would allow outsourced animation from china/korea but set clear borders for original chinese cartoons. |
| "This emotion is mine alone. It is for Madoka alone." - Homura or how I would descripe Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica. |
| first animated feature film in asia was chinese, when occupied by japan. that has earned its place in japanese and chinese media history as well as mal. cant have that deleted. plus most of early anime was based off chinese folktales anyway |
 |
changelog said: However, China and Japan share much closer links with each other than Japan and the West (culturally speaking). Chinese anime's art-style show much more resemblance to Japanese anime and many of them consistently have tropes that are present in many Japanese anime. That's a result of imitation. It's painfully obvious that these Chinese shows try to mimic anime in terms story and animation. There are examples of the west to in regards to this, Neo Yokio was made in partnership with Japanese studios so it also shares common link to Japanese anime, thereby invalidating your argument. |
|
| Honestly, the only thing I care about is adding Thunderbolt Fantasy. |
 |
| Chinesse shows are really similar to anime, they tend to have the same kind of animation, art, culture and stereotypes. They belong here for me. Some of them have great animation and they are improving really fast. I don't like the VAs tho, but some of them are good like in To Be Heroine/Hero 2, great show. |
 |
MohAngelo said: In my opinion, any Animation which isn't made in Japan is an abomination I guess you haven't seen the King's Avatar then. -SP- said: Platypus7 said: The definition saying it refers to only Japanese animation is outdated, or soon to be, because less and less people are using it to mean that. Maybe less and less people in the Anime community are using it to reference Japanese animation, but regular people who don't watch Anime still typically associate Anime with Japan. I think it should stay this way, other countries should find their own style and come up with their own terms. Seiya said: Yes. If Chinese/Korean Animation isn't initially geared towards a Japanese audience, it cannot be called "Anime." They removed the 1994 Mega Man series, so Chinese/Korean animation should be removed as well, because it's not Anime. Quanzhi Fashi isn't on ANN, so why should it be on MAL? I agree with this, it should be strictly Japanese Anime only, not rip-offs from other countries. As someone that prefers to only watch quality anime, and not care so much about the country of origin...I'd have to respectfully disagree. Amazing series are few enough as it is, I'd rather not lose out on more. If Quanzhi Gaoshou wasn't on MAL I would never have known about it and missed one such an amazing series. |
| “Ha ha, the synergy between my left and right hand made them feel scared.” Ye Xiu said. |
-Funland- said: hazecloud said: I know for sure you're the first one to get blocked by me. Maybe try to tell me which part of your life I should appreciate. lol. Dunno why you just got so butthurt. I was just asking why you said tencent was a bad company. I don't like you, so maybe try to make me to accept your existence first. |
More topics from this board
» Do you drop shows?EverRealm - 46 minutes ago |
10 |
by PostMahouShoujo
»»
15 seconds ago |
|
Poll: » So, is anime male or female?Tirinchas - Yesterday |
24 |
by Styx_Thistle
»»
4 minutes ago |
|
Poll: » do you consider hate on your favorites an attack on you personally?deg - 3 hours ago |
10 |
by Citrone39
»»
11 minutes ago |
|
» Favorite Spring 2024 OP/ED?Serafos - Apr 15 |
19 |
by IKKIsama
»»
20 minutes ago |
|
» Does being an anime fan make you proud or embarassed?BuddhaIsBetter - 5 hours ago |
19 |
by Zakception
»»
47 minutes ago |