| So, I just finished Made in Abyss, and honestly it was astonishing. Either way, as I was reading reviews all over the internet, an opinion got my attention: " I don't like when the autor uses cheap tricks to make the viewer emotional, as using children or animals( dogs, cats whatever ) to appel. " I never thought much about it, but I do know that there are tons of anime, manga, LN, books, movies, that uses this, and I would like to know what do you think about it, and why it's really effective sometimes. If you could give some examples about, that would be nice as well. I personally don't really care about it, I have times where animals or children being * insert doing bad thing here *, don't bother me at all, like the famous NINA event in FMA, but there are other moments where it gets me a lot. That's why I don't agree with it as it is a 'cheap trick', since, for me it works sometimes or is not effective at all. |
| Using lolis makes some people emotional for sure |
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IdleSolution said: Using lolis makes some people emotional for sure cof cof, black bullet, cof cof SupremeEdgelord said: The only time i felt like the show was telling me "you are supposed to feel bad" was Elfen Lied. yeah, it was one of the first animes I've watched, so now that I think about it everysingle character in that show has a fckd up background story that screams "feel bad for it " |
| Or a cheap way would be to kill every single interesting character... Akame Ga Kill |
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| It never really hits me and usually just finds it unpleasant except animals specialyl dogs ;-;, I prefer when I do care for the characters, to be emotionally attached, though, such that is a subjective thing, some people get attached rather easily. Although, I give props to Mushishi for giving a hidden sadness to its story, which was genuinely saddening even for the likes of me. But the only show that got me depressed because how I cared for the characters is Ashita no Joe well, Jojo Part 7 and Oyasumi Punpun if manga counts |
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| "i-it's not like i am emotional because of you, anime... it's because you used such cheap tricks.. b-baka" - that reviewer |
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| It's stupid to say every scenario includin X is cheap. That's just putting narrow-minded limitations on what authors should or shouldn't include in their writing. More than the elements used, it depends on the context and execution. And at the end of the day, if it's effective and works, that's all that matters. I wouldn't call that cheap. It's the whole purpose of a lot of fiction to evoke emotions and when it is successful at doing that it's a good thing. Only really nitpicky people eager to complain or set themselves apart by disliking something popular on purpose would take issue with that. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| It might be part of the melodrama, but if there's enough justification and logical reason for it (character don't act simply retarded) and there was some foreshadowing, I don't see it as a problem. I think MiA did it fine with all the warnings about how bad the bottom layers would be. But you have garbage like le deep mawaru penguindrum with the cat and the sign "no pets allowed" when they fucking put it back there and the truck took it away LMAO... |
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| its only cheap if the anime source is a key vn |
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romagia said: "i-it's not like i am emotional because of you, anime... it's because you used such cheap tricks.. b-baka" - that reviewer Your post honestly made me laugh out loud. Good one :-D |
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| Sad scenes are stupid when they involve characters who I have no reason to care about. I'm also not fond of ones the lack proper foreshadowing/buildup and just seem like a last minute add on. |
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| I think a "cheap trick" would be to use a dark sad backstory, even if it doesn't explain anything about the character or even contradicts it. Basically, like in Elfen Lied. You can feel bad for a character even with the happiest backstory but seems like there are so writers that doesn't know that, geez... K-On! made me cry much more than Elfen Lied and nothing bad even happens in it, just light-hearted music stuff... |
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| I don't consider it a cheap tactic but simply a common tactic now if its lazy or repetitive is what will cause dislike. Repetitiveness depends on who you ask but what I personally consider lazy and not lazy can be show cased with Parasite and Crybaby So yeah in both shows the MC sees their dead parent and have to fight against a monster using their mother's face which causes them emotional pain at that moment in time What the difference is that Shinichi is showed to have a bond with his mom which was showed to the audience before hand and he is effect by her death during the whole series afterwards As for Akira's bond with his mom. Lol what bond? They talked like once on the phone and he forgets about her and his dad like right after killing the demon that killed them. He wasn't even effected by it afterwards. Not in a way that I could see at least Thats what Id consider kind of lazy |
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even though I love akame ga kill, I agree completely. Some of the death seemed meaningless or emotionless. -Lofn- said: It never really hits me and usually just finds it unpleasant except animals specialyl dogs ;-;, I prefer when I do care for the characters, to be emotionally attached, though, such that is a subjective thing, some people get attached rather easily. Although, I give props to Mushishi for giving a hidden sadness to its story, which was genuinely saddening even for the likes of me. But the only show that got me depressed because how I cared for the characters is Ashita no Joe well, Jojo Part 7 and Oyasumi Punpun if manga counts That's basically the diference between the 2 examples I gave, attachment, but yeah it is really subjective. SuzuMine-chan said: You can feel bad for a character even with the happiest backstory but seems like there are so writers that doesn't know that, geez... K-On! made me cry much more than Elfen Lied and nothing bad even happens in it, just light-hearted music stuff... Yeah! I personally got really emotional more over happy backstories than sad backstories Deknijff said: I don't consider it a cheap tactic but simply a common tactic now if its lazy or repetitive is what will cause dislike. Repetitiveness depends on who you ask but what I personally consider lazy and not lazy can be show cased with Parasite and Crybaby So yeah in both shows the MC sees their dead parent and have to fight against a monster using their mother's face which causes them emotional pain at that moment in time What the difference is that Shinichi is showed to have a bond with his mom which was showed to the audience before hand and he is effect by her death during the whole series afterwards As for Akira's bond with his mom. Lol what bond? They talked like once on the phone and he forgets about her and his dad like right after killing the demon that killed them. He wasn't even effected by it afterwards. Not in a way that I could see at least Thats what Id consider kind of lazy that's basically the reason why I have an unpopular opinion about anohana, I found it really appealing and boring, it felt like it was lazy to produce some kind of emotion inside me, so it used children to make it sadder. |
| Speaking of cheap attempts to make audience emotional, Clannad: After Story is the champion of that shit. In fact, as far as I can remember, Clannad: After Story is pretty much the worst anime I have seen so far. There too many examples, but I will give you one. The author intentionally kept the audience without the important information about the main character's father, and only feed us with selective information that portrayed him as an excessively bad parent, when in fact he was not. The author made the main character act badly toward the father based on that limited information, like as if the main character did not know all the facts. Then in the end, the author reveals all the facts about the father and therefore suddenly completely changing the perspective of the audience, when the audience should be given the same information the main character had from the beginning in order to realistically see/judge the situation. |
| Haven't watched Made in Abyss but I despise how explicit some anime are in dictating the audience's emotions. I'll echo the poster above about Clannad: After Story, and I'll also throw in Attack on Titan S2, Bleach, and their ilk. |
man_of_culture said: I agree with that same example but everything else Clannad does isn't just easy tears. I personally found Clannad to be one of the best anime in this aspect, using foreshadowing, character development, mood changes in order to achieve its emotional parts.Speaking of cheap attempts to make audience emotional, Clannad: After Story is the champion of that shit. In fact, as far as I can remember, Clannad: After Story is pretty much the worst anime I have seen so far. There too many examples, but I will give you one. The author intentionally kept the audience without the important information about the main character's father, and only feed us with selective information that portrayed him as an excessively bad parent, when in fact he was not. The author made the main character act badly toward the father based on that limited information, like as if the main character did not know all the facts. Then in the end, the author reveals all the facts about the father and therefore suddenly completely changing the perspective of the audience, when the audience should be given the same information the main character had from the beginning in order to realistically see/judge the situation. For an anime of "cheap tricks", I would say Anohana. That thing thinks that by having an emo depressing atmosphere it's deep or something. I haven't continued it yet because the drama is so f**king forced when 100% of the time they are talking about ONE SINGLE "SAD" SUBJECT (Menma). |
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| Well if it's a "cheap" tactic then it shouldn't work anyway, right? :P But yeah, a properly emotional thing does need setup work and the time to make that impact set in and become meaningful. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
| The I don't like something because it is using a cheap trick is pretty much a stereotype in itself right now. Same reason people use melodrama as an insult to a show. Stories are made to invoke emotion. Anime uses sound effects to try and make you laugh. It uses sad music to make you said. It uses cool animation in fight scenes to hype you up. You don't have to like any of these things but to call any of them cheap tricks probably shows how limited your mindset is and how close minded you really are. |
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| its weird when people call something sad a cheap tactic, or when people say stuff like "omg theyre manipulating your emotions" im just like all right well i mean media will make people feel stuff....i agree its done badly sometimes but i cant really tell these things well the only time i felt that it was forced was probably when i was watching colorful. i get sad easily but damn i felt like it was too shoved in my face for some reason |
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| I don't mind if people call an emotional moment "cheap" but there needs to be a justification, and one that makes sense and takes the structure of the narrative and the specific moment into account. The complaint you quoted about Made in Abyss is a terrible one because it is completely oblivious to context and buildup, to the very reason the characters were in the Abyss to start with, the additional circumstances that helped create the drama, and to many other narrative reasons. The characters don't exist just to make the emotional moment feel more disturbing. To say that is terrible criticism and an automatic call to not take that opinion seriously. |
| So basically we're talking about Key here? |
| I dislike the term "cheap" and prefer "forced". greymood said: So basically we're talking about Key here? No, Key actually lets you get to know their characters before ending them. Anohana also lets you get to know its main character. Grave of the Fireflies does not, however. I don't care how many critics praise this movie; the tragedy is REALLY manipulative and forced. You could replace the brother and sister with any other kids and it would make no difference. Neither one really has a personality; it's just tragedy porn for the sake of being tragedy porn "kids dying is sad because they're just kids and death is horrible". That's the kind of film it is. And yes, I know it's based on a true story....but the execution is still poor. |
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| I wouldn't say that it's a cheap trick... Like in Made in Abyss when the mc was gonna die I didn't give a crap just wanted her to die because I didn't like her When a character I feel somewhat attached to dies, then I kinda feel emotional lol like Akame ga kill.... Mine's death was emotional af... It's neither cheap nor forced rather it's a common tactic..but again it depends upon the show... Like in Made in Abyss, I felt it was forced... And why would someone be emotional over a "cheap/forced" tactic? |
KatsutoSakiMar 11, 2018 8:42 PM
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| Cheap tricks don't work. If you get emotional it means you got invested in the story and started to care about the characters. |
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| he only called it cheap trick because it did not work for him that his suspension of disbelief did not work |
| Cheap is subjective, what may work for you may not have worked for him. But true, him generalizing that what was in that anime is 'cheap tricks' is kinda... Eh. |
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Deknijff said: I don't consider it a cheap tactic but simply a common tactic now if its lazy or repetitive is what will cause dislike. Repetitiveness depends on who you ask but what I personally consider lazy and not lazy can be show cased with Parasite and Crybaby So yeah in both shows the MC sees their dead parent and have to fight against a monster using their mother's face which causes them emotional pain at that moment in time What the difference is that Shinichi is showed to have a bond with his mom which was showed to the audience before hand and he is effect by her death during the whole series afterwards As for Akira's bond with his mom. Lol what bond? They talked like once on the phone and he forgets about her and his dad like right after killing the demon that killed them. He wasn't even effected by it afterwards. Not in a way that I could see at least Thats what Id consider kind of lazy @Deknijff The problem I have with this, is that all the characters in Parasyte are so atrocious that I ended up hating most of them before they died, resulting in a sigh of relief from me. Would have been better to just dump them without any background as far as I'm concerned (^': And speaking of cheap tricks and Parasyte... Isn't that show the one that overuses its only sad piano track ad nauseam? I remember wanting to punch things when that obvious track played. About Devilman... It's way too rushed to pay hommage to the source material, but tbh Devilman is the wrong place to look for a plot that makes sense. The manga has other strengths. |
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| You know you watch too much when you are going to consider it as cheap tactics. I let my emotions carrying me on to get a feels ride. |
Clebardman said: Ah ok I see @Deknijff The problem I have with this, is that all the characters in Parasyte are so atrocious that I ended up hating most of them before they died, resulting in a sigh of relief from me. Would have been better to just dump them without any background as far as I'm concerned (^':  Clebardman said: I wouldn't know honestly Cleb And speaking of cheap tricks and Parasyte... Isn't that show the one that overuses its only sad piano track ad nauseam? I remember wanting to punch things when that obvious track played.  you asking a guy who doesn't think Lilium is overused after all |
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Clebardman said: And speaking of cheap tricks and Parasyte... Isn't that show the one that overuses its only sad piano track ad nauseam? I remember wanting to punch things when that obvious track played. Almost every anime uses their tracks over and over.. Dunno ....why you're pointing that out..... |
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@Clebardman well if that would mean more stolen art work taken from Gustav Klimt there is no reason to complain am I right ? |
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ZSTGL_IMA said: Clebardman said: And speaking of cheap tricks and Parasyte... Isn't that show the one that overuses its only sad piano track ad nauseam? I remember wanting to punch things when that obvious track played. Almost every anime uses their tracks over and over.. Dunno ....why you're pointing that out..... There are ways to use a soundtrack, and some are dumber and more telegraphed than others. Playing a shitty sad piano track everytime the watcher is supposed to be sad is a good way to take him by the hand and insult his intelligence. There's a reason why Komm Susser Todd (End of Evangelion) is generally considered an interesting pick for an apocalypse scene. What I'm saying is, Parasyte uses its soundtrack like a chimpanzee would. |
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SupremeEdgelord said: The only time i felt like the show was telling me "you are supposed to feel bad" was Elfen Lied. This. But then again the entire thing was just edgelord moment after edgelord moment. |
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| @Clebardman I find it very funny this is a complaint when you have Utena in favs but hey let me guess dude. Its commentary on how repetitive other magical girl shows are or something  or do you have something to say I'm not thinking of? |
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| I think it depends. Anyone can get hurt, but whether the circumstances are convincing or not is another matter. Most of the time drama anime failed to impress me on the latter. |
Turtles_Hunter said: Your lie in april is exactly that. They find a stupid reason for the two main character not to be together when they are obviously in love, the guy that is supposed to be in couple with the girl is on of the MC bestfriend, but still, he does not say anything, so at the end they can go "Oh my god, she loved him all along, it's even more sad". Duh! Stupidest goddamn idea ever. That anime has a lot of qualities, but that annoyed me far more that it should have. Apparently you've never been in the situation of the MC. Good for you, because for people who have been, that show was PTSD inducing. |
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| Why is using kids in a violent or dark setting cheap inherently? I mean I think that was kind of the point of Made I'm Abyss. It's a subversion on a typical adventure story. It starts out seemingly more light hearted and generic but when it gets dark, the point is to add a genuine feeling of danger to the world. Would that world have felt as brutal if you know what didn't happen? Would it have felt as real? Course not. I think that reviwer completely missed the point. |
| These "cheap tricks" don't appeal to me anyways and there are rarely things in fiction that have an imotional impact on me so it doesn't really bother me as much if they are used. But ofc I prefere emotional moments with well written characters witch feel natural. |
simonephone said: Why is using kids in a violent or dark setting cheap inherently? I mean I think that was kind of the point of Made I'm Abyss. It's a subversion on a typical adventure story. It starts out seemingly more light hearted and generic but when it gets dark, the point is to add a genuine feeling of danger to the world. Would that world have felt as brutal if you know what didn't happen? Would it have felt as real? Course not. I think that reviwer completely missed the point. Look, we still have people knocking Your Lie and April and White Album 2 as forced teenage melodramas, when they're anything but. And people that hate Ergo Proxy because it's "edgy" or "slow", IE, they didn't get it. People have to be spoonfed themes and narratives with today's anime. |
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| I only get emotional while watching an anime (or reading manga or watching or reading anything at all) if the theme and events in it are something I can emotionally relate to. It might be something that I personally long for or something that has happened to me, if not exactly then at least close enough, that has had an emotional impact on me. But killing off children, animals, people in general or just other disastrous events in a series. Nope. So I've never even thought those things as being "cheap tricks" lol. |
Eight-Man said: Remember, be an artist, not an autist. "If anything simply cannot go wrong it will anyway." ~ Murphy's 5th law |
Vorpality said: simonephone said: Why is using kids in a violent or dark setting cheap inherently? I mean I think that was kind of the point of Made I'm Abyss. It's a subversion on a typical adventure story. It starts out seemingly more light hearted and generic but when it gets dark, the point is to add a genuine feeling of danger to the world. Would that world have felt as brutal if you know what didn't happen? Would it have felt as real? Course not. I think that reviwer completely missed the point. Look, we still have people knocking Your Lie and April and White Album 2 as forced teenage melodramas, when they're anything but. And people that hate Ergo Proxy because it's "edgy" or "slow", IE, they didn't get it. People have to be spoonfed themes and narratives with today's anime. People call any show that expresses any kind of anger or sadness edgy these days. It's a super lame criticism. Sort of like how everything was "for hipsters" a couple years ago. |
| Me : "I present you the fucking overrated Kimi no Nawa" |
| It all comes down to the execution. If these shows are good and effective in making me emotional and feeling sympathy for the characters, who care whatever 'cheap' tactics they used. |
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