Manaban said: Yeah, no, what's distasteful or not is entirely rooted in an individual's tolerance of whatever is being drawn into question - things aren't inherently offensive to everybody, or inherently unpleasant to everybody, a threshold is just a line drawn to indicate that anything past a certain point is a truth and anything below a certain point is false. Having a very low tolerance level of something before it crosses that threshold over into the "true" territory, in this case being distasteful, is not having no threshold. It is having a very low one. You stated earlier that it isn't a matter of possessing a threshold. So, basically, because it's something that's operating on the parameters an individual is setting before they determine it crosses the line over into distasteful territory (i.e. before it crosses the threshold indicating that you believe "distasteful = true,") said individual's tolerance is entirely relevant to the discussion itself. Tolerance is the upper ceiling of something one can accept, meanwhile, something can be distasteful without hitting the upper limit. No need to over-complicate things. The only way it wouldn't be related to your own tolerance level would be if the parameters for what's offensive or unpleasant were static and universal, which they very much are not. Tolerance and what one finds distasteful is relative only from person to person. However, the conditions to meet the 'distasteful' for an individual are static unless a certain catalyst is applied. These things, as is, are subjective. Please. You're the one who started talking about extreme levels of fanservice, to which you replied to Dekn's response indicating a low tolerance level which started this discussion between you and me now. If you're going to act like the ecchi tag isn't most often applied to shows that tend to feature similar veins of fanservice you can find in any non-ecchi show but more prominently, then all I can do is assume that you haven't watched a lot of shows that are considered ecchi to begin with. My wording was probably a bit too vague in this case. By extreme level, I mean high in quantity and consistently occurring without the need to, be it vague or flashy in nature. I don't go out of my way to watch shows that are heavy on ecchi, so you're right. |
Suddenly, someone slaps you with a brick wall. |
Anatithe said: Tolerance is the upper ceiling of something one can accept, meanwhile, something can be distasteful without hitting the upper limit. No need to over-complicate things. The argument I'm making is that tolerance level is related to the threshold that must be crossed before something can become distasteful. If you're finding something distasteful, then you're not really tolerating it much. I wouldn't exactly say it's tolerating something if it passes a level where it's detrimental to the product in question for any given individual, in the context of anime. If they were tolerating it, they wouldn't need to complain about it being distasteful to begin with because they're no longer really enduring it without any sort of issue. It broke their capacity for them to be able to withstand it, so therefore they write it off as a negative. Anatithe said: Tolerance and what one finds distasteful is relative only from person to person. However, the conditions to meet the 'distasteful' for an individual are static unless a certain catalyst is applied. These things, as is, are subjective. They're only static if you remove every other variable that can be taken into consideration from the equation - things like mood and the individual's current mindset tend to play a major factor in how tolerant they're willing to be of something that causes them discomfort. Given those variables are going to be constantly in play unless we're talking about an emotionless entity, then it's pretty hard to argue that it's a static entity even on an individual basis. Anatithe said: My wording was probably a bit too vague in this case. By extreme level, I mean high in quantity and consistently occurring without the need to, be it vague or flashy in nature. I don't go out of my way to watch shows that are heavy on ecchi, so you're right. Ah, so you meant ecchi. Cool. |
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Manaban said: The argument I'm making is that tolerance level is related to the threshold that must be crossed before something can become distasteful. If you're finding something distasteful, then you're not really tolerating it much. I wouldn't exactly say it's tolerating something if it passes a level where it's detrimental to the product in question for any given individual, in the context of anime. When it's beyond toleration, it has passed the limit, thus abandonment follows. If they were tolerating it, they wouldn't need to complain about it being distasteful to begin with because they're no longer really enduring it without any sort of issue. It broke their capacity for them to be able to withstand it, so therefore they write it off as a negative. It's my opinion that I was willing to give when it was asked. I don't pause after a fan service scene and randomly go tell people that it wasn't appealing. They're only static if you remove every other variable that can be taken into consideration from the equation - things like mood and the individual's current mindset tend to play a major factor in how tolerant they're willing to be of something that causes them discomfort. Given those variables are going to be constantly in play unless we're talking about an emotionless entity, then it's pretty hard to argue that it's a static entity even on an individual basis. Thus the catalyst part... Ah, so you meant ecchi. Cool. We're not in Japan, nor all fan service classifies as ecchi. |
Suddenly, someone slaps you with a brick wall. |
| I love sexy women but when a female character for no reason is sexualized (or constantly moe-ified) it breaks my immersion into the story. |
 ☆ My Anime Challenges ☆ My List ☆ |
Ardania22 said: We, the female end of the fandom have a love/hate relationship with Asuka probably the same way men do with Shinji. Women tend to love Shinji, literally having him in thier faves. Most who love Shinji will of course love Kaworu,Yui, and Rei. In that order. Lol. Misato and/ or Kaji are loved. Kaji only gets love from women if they saw the series more than once. First time, I, like most misread his character. It is strange, Misato actually angers me as much as Asuka. I think being 27 myself now... I have some perspective on her actions more now than I did at 18. So irresponsible. Rei was a character I didn't like until I rewatched. Yui is still #bestgirlEnergetic-Nova said: Shortlist of shows which have sexuality and they were integrated into the plot. (also if you are a girl too, funny thing about Evangelion, I noticed it is on most ladies favorites on this website, especially those who have seen a lot of anime. Be prepared for it to never really be surpassed) Kids on the Slope (and most anything else labeled Josei) Keijo (stupid physics but fits with the plot of the show. They also have women of many body types.) Gunbuster- because you like Evangelion, will throw this gem out there. Oniisama e Revolutionary Girl Utena Chu Bra- I only rec this to women because men only notice the loli pantsu rather than story, which though about pantsu and bras, more about coming of age. Panty Stocking + Garterbelt (another gainax one) But funny thing, a lot of shows were inspired by Go-Nagai. And if you wish to get to the source of all these shinanigans read (though you could watch some of the OVAs I guess but the manga is better as they say): Devilman and Cutey Honey. If not uncle Go, they feel like Rumiko works but not as good like: Urusei Yatsura, Ranma 1/2, Inuyasha. Thanks for the shortlist! Might check those shows out. And I'm a guy, just to clarify. Not surprised that Eva's so high on a lot of girl's lists, though. It has a lot of really interesting female characters who aren't just used as cheap fanservice (Asuka's probably my favorite anime character of all time). And yeah, until the rebuilds I definitely felt that. But then the rebuilds happen. XD And obvoiusly all of us girls pretty much feel the only good thing about them is Shinji and Kaworu. XD (and the animation being top notch) |
Energetic-NovaDec 27, 2017 10:44 PM
The anime community in a nutshell.  |
| Oh no, a lot of anime has sexy characters? The humanity! Just watch something else. |
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| Most customers are males and they need boobs, asses ... etc. Wasn't that obvious ? |
  "elles sont bien noires les pensées des nuits blanches"  |
This answers it. It can be a plus to make the anime popular. |
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You... DO know that the majority of people in the world are female, right? |
This may seem surprising, but the entire population of the world aren't anime fans Here's a snippet of some relevant info from the site itself that it provides publicly for potential advertisers to use  |
ManabanDec 28, 2017 9:58 AM
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But not the majority of people who watch anime. |
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| first of all, Lolis are the best thing to ever have existed in anime so dont u go calling them disgusting. 2nd of all who doesnt like fanservice? I mean, i dont mind seeing girls' boobs bouncing around unrealistically and any other dude i bet would agree with me...unless ur gay. Therefore why would they not have all that good stuff people enjoy? |
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Millireena said: Granted, not all anime feature these kind of characters but a lot do. This was exactly the reason why I hesitated to start watching Anime, because there was always this female character (be it young or old etc, and may I add, it's disgusting to sexualize young girls) that was sexualized in a way, or whom would have this moment where their breasts would unrealistically bounce. I honestly don't want to start any arguments (and if you want to start one then make it logical, don't just rear off to using foul language just because you disagree with me. And tell me the reason why you disagree with me and not just because you may be a pervert/don't care how women are portrayed) But alas, everyone is allowed to have their own opinion. And before anything happens, don't go calling me a feminist just because I find something wrong in the way women are portrayed. I just want to know if anyone shares this frustration with me because how you always tend to see female characters in anime with exaggerated sized breasts, underwear shots, wears stuff that show a ton of cleavage etc, or those eyeroll moments when a girl falls on top of a guy and her chest is in his face or something. It makes me wonder if some people actually only see them good to be featured for only these reasons? It's honestly discouraging. But at the same time, some women are to blame for this, constantly flaunting their bodies and such. But I will say, It makes me very happy whenever I see a woman who aren't displayed like this. I like seeing strong, smart, cool, modest etc female MCs/side characters. I want people to like female anime characters for other reasons besides the fact that they shove their chests in your face. I apologize for the rant. I'm glad I was able to steam and let out my frustrations. D: Thanks for actually reading this far! The targeted demographic are horny males.That is why anime females tend to be sexualized/have exaggerated features. |
| I could talk about this all day, but I'm too tired, so I will make it short and easy. Do you know an anime called Kaleido Star? If not, watch it. You will not regret. (Also watch Inazuma Eleven and Danball Senki). And about the entire breast size thing: there are women in real life with breasts as large as the ones you see in anime, sometimes even larger (Norma Stitz, Penny Underbust, Hitomi Tanaka, Fuko etc). And not all anime have women with exaggerated bodies (or that wear too few clothes), you are just watching anime made by people who feel attracted by this type of woman. And if you are looking for examples of anime with a more diverse female cast, what about watch the ones I mentioned in this post? |
And don't you think that the prevalence of female characters designed to be wank fantasies juuust might be the reason why more women don't get in to anime? I mean, if every anime guy was treated like the guys in Free, I might not have gotten into anime myself. |
| Ohh will you look at that, another "fuck ecchi/famservice/isekai/Moe/CGDCG anime that ruins the lives of all people and the community itself and even the industry! I must preach why it is bad so they have to wake up" Anyway, now I'm wonder why are you watch seires with "sexualizes features", do you not know how to filter your own shit? |
| try not to go full retard there buddy |
Ardania22 said: even if that was the case is that even really a problem. Women have shows that cater to them that several men don't watch. Things can't appeal to everyone Swagernator said: And don't you think that the prevalence of female characters designed to be wank fantasies juuust might be the reason why more women don't get in to anime? I mean, if every anime guy was treated like the guys in Free, I might not have gotten into anime myself.But not the majority of people who watch anime. whats wrong with how the dudes in Free are treated? |
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| That's what we call fanservice, but still, there are some anime where we can find fanservice but it's good, like K-project for exemple, (overdose of fanservice but still a good anime) ! |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
Deknijff said: Ardania22 said: even if that was the case is that even really a problem. Women have shows that cater to them that several men don't watch. Things can't appeal to everyone And don't you think that the prevalence of female characters designed to be wank fantasies juuust might be the reason why more women don't get in to anime? I mean, if every anime guy was treated like the guys in Free, I might not have gotten into anime myself. whats wrong with how the dudes in Free are treated? Nothing's wrong with how the dudes in Free are treated in isolation. But imagine that EVERY show, or at least the vast majority of popular ones, had manservice like that. Wouldn't that be even the slightest bit off-putting to guys? Because that's the state of female characters in anime right now. And that's a problem, because it's a massive barrier to millions of potential fans. |
_Ako_ said: Ako, I can filter my shit easily. But the problem is that it's EVERYWHERE. If I filtered out all shows that had exessive, unnecessary fanservice, I would limit myself to about 5% of anime and about 1% of popular, well-received anime. Even shows I really like, like My Hero Academia, struggle with this. The "Just don't watch it" argument doesn't work when it's this prevalent.Ohh will you look at that, another "fuck ecchi/famservice/isekai/Moe/CGDCG anime that ruins the lives of all people and the community itself and even the industry! I must preach why it is bad so they have to wake up" Anyway, now I'm wonder why are you watch seires with "sexualizes features", do you not know how to filter your own shit? |
Ardania22 said: Nothing's wrong with how the dudes in Free are treated in isolation. But imagine that EVERY show, or at least the vast majority of popular ones, had manservice like that. Wouldn't that be even the slightest bit off-putting to guys? Because that's the state of female characters in anime right now. And that's a problem, because it's a massive barrier to millions of potential fans. Idk, do they? A lot of shows that get popular aren't exactly laden with fanservice, and while people have called it a sizeable niche in the past, the fact of the matter is that ecchi is still a niche type of appeal in anime. Also, if people are going to be put off by what can often amount to a single shot or two in non-ecchi shows, then so be it, that seems rather squeamish and irrational. Also I kind of feel you're greatly overstating the "millions of potential fans" that it could be blocking off for the sake of building a narrative, but w/e. Sure, it blocks off some, but anime has been growing significantly outside of Japan in recent years and isn't exactly showing signs of slowing down. |
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Exten37 said: Oh joy, we're throwing names around now. Glad to see you're mature, buddy.try not to go full retard there buddy |
Ardania22 said: I guess it would be off putting for some but I don't understand why. If said character looks hot or attractive its nice to look at and Im pretty sure most would agree if it came between a ugly mother fucker and sexy mother fucker they'd prefer the person to be attractive even if they aren't gay or bi Deknijff said: Nothing's wrong with how the dudes in Free are treated in isolation. But imagine that EVERY show, or at least the vast majority of popular ones, had manservice like that. Wouldn't that be even the slightest bit off-putting to guys?even if that was the case is that even really a problem. Women have shows that cater to them that several men don't watch. Things can't appeal to everyone whats wrong with how the dudes in Free are treated? Because that's the state of female characters in anime right now. And that's a problem, because it's a massive barrier to millions of potential fans. |
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Manaban said: Gurren Lagann, My Hero Academia, Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, and Sword Art Online, to name a few. All super popular within the anime community, all with a fair amount of unnecessary fanservice.Ardania22 said: Nothing's wrong with how the dudes in Free are treated in isolation. But imagine that EVERY show, or at least the vast majority of popular ones, had manservice like that. Wouldn't that be even the slightest bit off-putting to guys? Because that's the state of female characters in anime right now. And that's a problem, because it's a massive barrier to millions of potential fans. Idk, do they? A lot of shows that get popular aren't exactly laden with fanservice, and while people have called it a sizeable niche in the past, the fact of the matter is that ecchi is still a niche type of appeal in anime. Also, if people are going to be put off by what can often amount to a single shot or two in non-ecchi shows, then so be it, that seems rather squeamish and irrational. Also I kind of feel you're greatly overstating the "millions of potential fans" that it could be blocking off for the sake of building a narrative, but w/e. Sure, it blocks off some, but anime has been growing significantly outside of Japan in recent years and isn't exactly showing signs of slowing down. And yes, anime is growing in popularity constantly, but that fanservice is still a limiting factor to a lot of people. |
Deknijff said: No arguments there, but there's a big difference between just having attractive characters and using them for unnecessary fanservice, and most anime opt for the latter. As an example of the former, look at FMA Brotherhood. All the characters are drop-dead gorgeous, but outside of a small handful of out-of-place fanservice moments in the back half, the only female character who gets regularly sexualized by the camera/characters is Lust. Which makes sense, because how do you now be sexual with a character who's the literal embodiment of sexual desire?Ardania22 said: I guess it would be off putting for some but I don't understand why. If said character looks hot or attractive its nice to look at and Im pretty sure most would agree if it came between a ugly mother fucker and sexy mother fucker they'd prefer the person to be attractive even if they aren't gay or bi Nothing's wrong with how the dudes in Free are treated in isolation. But imagine that EVERY show, or at least the vast majority of popular ones, had manservice like that. Wouldn't that be even the slightest bit off-putting to guys? Because that's the state of female characters in anime right now. And that's a problem, because it's a massive barrier to millions of potential fans. Attractive characters aren't off-putting. Focusing on said characters' attractiveness to the detriment of tone and story is. |
| Cash. Getting viewers is the top priority of any Anime Studio, doesn't matter if they have to make crap, if that crap is attractive. |
| Around the gif~ "It's a big mistake to think you're the only one who can turn into a car" - Shiori Takatsuki |
Ardania22 said: Manaban said: Gurren Lagann, My Hero Academia, Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, and Sword Art Online, to name a few. All super popular within the anime community, all with a fair amount of unnecessary fanservice.Idk, do they? A lot of shows that get popular aren't exactly laden with fanservice, and while people have called it a sizeable niche in the past, the fact of the matter is that ecchi is still a niche type of appeal in anime. Also, if people are going to be put off by what can often amount to a single shot or two in non-ecchi shows, then so be it, that seems rather squeamish and irrational. Also I kind of feel you're greatly overstating the "millions of potential fans" that it could be blocking off for the sake of building a narrative, but w/e. Sure, it blocks off some, but anime has been growing significantly outside of Japan in recent years and isn't exactly showing signs of slowing down. And yes, anime is growing in popularity constantly, but that fanservice is still a limiting factor to a lot of people. One having a notable amount of sexualization yet still serves as a gateway anime to many, the next having it in one or two scenes with one character at best, after that one being probably even less than the one that came before it, largely being relegated to bunny costumes and swimsuits (those two things are all over other types of media as well so idk how it could even pose the slightest barrier to an individual unless they were using it to justify a prejiduce rather than serve as a legitimate barrier) and the latter still being a huge cause for an explosive boom and is generally considered as being one of the two forerunners of the current generational growth of the media in the west alongside AoT, controversy over quality aside (a controversy significantly more rooted in perceived quality of writing and characterization as opposed to just having some fanservice scenes) so...yeah. I don't think it's nearly as widespread as you're treating it when you're acting as if it's to blame for all of your problems about not enough people being into anime to begin with like you were saying earlier in this thread. I am not at all convinced you aren't greatly overstating the reach of this in particular, especially since when I combine it with earlier things you said in this thread it's hard not to have the impression you're trying to build a narrative against it in order to scapegoat it due to anime's popularity not being as mainstream as you'd like. I'm sorry, but it's difficult to view you as behaving in a way that's even remotely trying to take a rational or balanced assessment on this topic and are just blaming this as the only reason the world over isn't into anime already. You want to talk about it with your friends like you do superhero movies, you cannot, so clearly millions of people are being prevented and sexualization is the root of why anime isn't a totally globalized medium by now. And obviously there are no people who are getting into anime because of how prevalent these aspects are, because this huge bulk of growth is clearly a unanimous consumerbase who would love anime if not for there being sexy things in it sometimes. Obviously. |
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Manaban said: Well, if you're convinced I'm some scapegoating idiot, there's no point in me trying to convince you further. I'm sorry you couldn't take my arguments seriously.Ardania22 said: Gurren Lagann, My Hero Academia, Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, and Sword Art Online, to name a few. All super popular within the anime community, all with a fair amount of unnecessary fanservice. And yes, anime is growing in popularity constantly, but that fanservice is still a limiting factor to a lot of people. One having a notable amount of sexualization yet still serves as a gateway anime to many, the next having it in one or two scenes with one character at best, after that one being probably even less than the one that came before it, largely being relegated to bunny costumes and swimsuits (those two things are all over other types of media as well so idk how it could even pose the slightest barrier to an individual unless they were using it to justify a prejiduce rather than serve as a legitimate barrier) and the latter still being a huge cause for an explosive boom and is generally considered as being one of the two forerunners of the current generational growth of the media in the west alongside AoT, controversy over quality aside (a controversy significantly more rooted in perceived quality of writing and characterization as opposed to just having some fanservice scenes) so...yeah. I don't think it's nearly as widespread as you're treating it when you're acting as if it's to blame for all of your problems about not enough people being into anime to begin with like you were saying earlier in this thread. I am not at all convinced you aren't greatly overstating the reach of this in particular, especially since when I combine it with earlier things you said in this thread it's hard not to have the impression you're trying to build a narrative against it in order to scapegoat it due to anime's popularity not being as mainstream as you'd like. I'm sorry, but it's difficult to view you as behaving in a way that's even remotely trying to take a rational or balanced assessment on this topic and are just blaming this as the only reason the world over isn't into anime already. |
Ardania22 said: Well, if you're convinced I'm some scapegoating idiot, there's no point in me trying to convince you further. I'm sorry you couldn't take my arguments seriously. Well, you could alway substantiate them in a meaningful way rather than doing the equivalent of saying "THERE ARE MILLLLLIONS OF FANS NOT GETTING INTO ANIME AND THIS IS THE REASON WHY" after saying "i just want to talk to my friends about anime like i would the movies i talk to them about ;_;" prior, since that's all you've really done so far in this regard. Especially when you're talking about it being absolutely everywhere and totally unavoidable, which, frankly, it absolutely isn't and that claim has always just been histrionics at best. It's hard to take anything trustworthy away in what's still currently just claims on your end if that's going to be the case, hence why it seems like you're more interested in just trying to build a narrative against something you feel is causing you a personal inconvenience, rather than an argument rooted in rationality and substantiation. Rhetoric as opposed to reason. I probably wouldn't like you proving yourself correct in the slightest, make no mistake, but that doesn't mean that your claims can't be proven in a way that's actually meaningful and provides credibility to your arguments, and basic integrity would more or less obligate me to hear you out on that because I don't want to be a dickhead who plugs my ears to everything I hear that I don't like all you have to do is provide the basis of a claim that's basically "How is fanservice serving as a widespread detriment to the growth of the anime industry?" and we can have an actual discussion over this, but that is the opposite of what you're doing now |
ManabanDec 28, 2017 1:35 PM
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Ardania22 said: _Ako_ said: Ako, I can filter my shit easily. But the problem is that it's EVERYWHERE. If I filtered out all shows that had exessive, unnecessary fanservice, I would limit myself to about 5% of anime and about 1% of popular, well-received anime. Even shows I really like, like My Hero Academia, struggle with this. The "Just don't watch it" argument doesn't work when it's this prevalent.Ohh will you look at that, another "fuck ecchi/famservice/isekai/Moe/CGDCG anime that ruins the lives of all people and the community itself and even the industry! I must preach why it is bad so they have to wake up" Anyway, now I'm wonder why are you watch seires with "sexualizes features", do you not know how to filter your own shit? There's hardly any fan-service in BnHA, so honestly, idk. There are plenty of good anime that have very little fanservice, probably 400 days worth at the minimum, and you're only at 6.4 days. I'm saying this as a guy that hates ecchi and fan service myself. |
Ardania22 said: If a girl isn't going to watch anime because of fanservice then too bad for them. It appeals to most guys and guys are the majority by far. I don't know why you have such an issue with it, are you gay or something?Manaban said: Gurren Lagann, My Hero Academia, Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, and Sword Art Online, to name a few. All super popular within the anime community, all with a fair amount of unnecessary fanservice.Idk, do they? A lot of shows that get popular aren't exactly laden with fanservice, and while people have called it a sizeable niche in the past, the fact of the matter is that ecchi is still a niche type of appeal in anime. Also, if people are going to be put off by what can often amount to a single shot or two in non-ecchi shows, then so be it, that seems rather squeamish and irrational. Also I kind of feel you're greatly overstating the "millions of potential fans" that it could be blocking off for the sake of building a narrative, but w/e. Sure, it blocks off some, but anime has been growing significantly outside of Japan in recent years and isn't exactly showing signs of slowing down. And yes, anime is growing in popularity constantly, but that fanservice is still a limiting factor to a lot of people. |
| Why must hentai protagonist always have 12 inchers? |
fruits_punch95 said: Why must hentai protagonist always have 12 inchers? that's how it is in 3D porn too have you ever seen a male porn star like Ron Jeremy's dick? that thing is absolutely massive |
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Ardania22 said: Well not everything has to be necessary Id say honestly. If there is room to add things that people like and it doesn't get in the way of character development or plot progression its all good. You can find these things in several shows. So I would even say your complaint at the end isn't a matter of fan service being a problem. But a problem of story structure of which isn't limited towards fan service and can be found in shows that doesn't have ecchi if one would look. No arguments there, but there's a big difference between just having attractive characters and using them for unnecessary fanservice, and most anime opt for the latter. As an example of the former, look at FMA Brotherhood. All the characters are drop-dead gorgeous, but outside of a small handful of out-of-place fanservice moments in the back half, the only female character who gets regularly sexualized by the camera/characters is Lust. Which makes sense, because how do you now be sexual with a character who's the literal embodiment of sexual desire? Attractive characters aren't off-putting. Focusing on said characters' attractiveness to the detriment of tone and story is. All female characters in FMA Brotherhood look like body builders or look chunky to me. Lust is the only attractive character but she dies like in the beginning of the show even so I feel disappointed Ardania22 said: I mean..... And yes, anime is growing in popularity constantly, but that fan service is still a limiting factor to a lot of people. there is always going to be some stupid shit people say makes it off putting. My boss said the Death Note series he borrowed from me was better than the Netflix live action movie yet he said he could take the movie more seriously because it wasn't animated and dropped the anime simply because it was animated |
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Deknijff said: I mean..... there is always going to be some stupid shit people say makes it off putting. My boss said the Death Note series he borrowed from me was better than the Netflix live action movie yet he said he could take the movie more seriously because it wasn't animated and dropped the anime simply because it was animated I'm reminded of that BobSamurai video a while back, where he polled people asking "What do you think is the biggest reason people aren't getting into anime" or "What is the biggest problem you have run into as an anime fan with non-anime fans" or something along these lines basically tried to place it all on fanservice, just having a poll with three options, one being fanservice at the very top, the other being that people think animation is for children, and the last being a complete non-contender in every way to the point where i don't remember it off of the top of my head because of how vague of a problem it seemed and people thinking that animation in general was for children won by over 50% and of course, he still made most of the video as a response to that poll he tried to make saying that it's fanservice causing all of the problems for anime fans ever pretty much, because the poll wasn't pretty much just a farce at all |
ManabanDec 28, 2017 1:51 PM
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| Tch, it sucks even characters with NORMAL features are sometimes still sexualized to the max. When I try to find some INNOCENT merchandise of Misaka Mikoto, let's say I'm just disturbed by what I see. She's 14 man... (LOOK AT THIS GARBAGE XD https://www.amazon.com/FREEing-Certain-Scientific-Railgun-Version/dp/B00AYSO9LY/ref=sr_1_44?ie=UTF8&qid=1514498445&sr=8-44&keywords=Misaka+mikoto ) |
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Jersie said: (LOOK AT THIS GARBAGE XD https://www.amazon.com/FREEing-Certain-Scientific-Railgun-Version/dp/B00AYSO9LY/ref=sr_1_44?ie=UTF8&qid=1514498445&sr=8-44&keywords=Misaka+mikoto ) Misaka isn't even my favorite Index girl but damn, would buy |
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149597871 said: You know the answer. I can't even think of a proper reply right now... Fanservice? Sex sells? Blame the patriarchy? Rant about how misogynistic the anime industry is? There is no point in that - all this should be quite obvious by now. What really annoys me is that exaggerating characters features is not even a bad thing if done properly but after some point it just becomes unappealing and sometimes even repulsive. (Besides I do not even understand what's the point in female characters having giant breasts or wearing super short skirts - like it doesn't even look that attractive to me but hey, it doesn't matter.) Not to mention that most of them are usually one-dimensional with no actual personality. I just don't get it... some girls even enjoy these shows. Would you feel comfortable watching an anime where all female characters are portrayed as half-naked sex objects who helplessly wait for the opposite (and apparently superior) gender to save them? It may surprise you, but those things you don't like, actually can be liked by other people. |
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AnimeAdamOP said: Problem is, it isn't isolated to ecchi stuff. It gets into shows that I otherwise really like as well. Like, Steins;Gate has a scene where the main character violently gropes one of his female colleagues, with her crying and begging him to stop, and it's played off as a joke. And that's the friggin 4th highest rated anime on this site. I really wish I could just avoid it and stick to the stuff I like, but I'd have to give up a lot of shows I otherwise enjoy.Ardania22 said: Ako, I can filter my shit easily. But the problem is that it's EVERYWHERE. If I filtered out all shows that had exessive, unnecessary fanservice, I would limit myself to about 5% of anime and about 1% of popular, well-received anime. Even shows I really like, like My Hero Academia, struggle with this. The "Just don't watch it" argument doesn't work when it's this prevalent. There's hardly any fan-service in BnHA, so honestly, idk. There are plenty of good anime that have very little fanservice, probably 400 days worth at the minimum, and you're only at 6.4 days. I'm saying this as a guy that hates ecchi and fan service myself. |
Exten37 said: Not gay, no, and it's kinda weird that you think I must be gay to have a problem with fanservice.Ardania22 said: If a girl isn't going to watch anime because of fanservice then too bad for them. It appeals to most guys and guys are the majority by far. I don't know why you have such an issue with it, are you gay or something?Gurren Lagann, My Hero Academia, Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, and Sword Art Online, to name a few. All super popular within the anime community, all with a fair amount of unnecessary fanservice. And yes, anime is growing in popularity constantly, but that fanservice is still a limiting factor to a lot of people. Look, the reason guys are the majority is likely BECAUSE so much anime has fanservice. I know a lot of my female friends stay away from anime because of this. And that sucks, because anime has the potential to tell some of the most interesting, original stories out there, but this bad habit turns off a lot of people who might otherwise really get into it. |
| from this point forward i will no longer write properly punctuated english in this thread because i see no longer see any reason to put forth the effort Ardania22 said: AnimeAdamOP said: Problem is, it isn't isolated to ecchi stuff. It gets into shows that I otherwise really like as well. Like, Steins;Gate has a scene where the main character violently gropes one of his female colleagues, with her crying and begging him to stop, and it's played off as a joke. And that's the friggin 4th highest rated anime on this site. I really wish I could just avoid it and stick to the stuff I like, but I'd have to give up a lot of shows I otherwise enjoy.There's hardly any fan-service in BnHA, so honestly, idk. There are plenty of good anime that have very little fanservice, probably 400 days worth at the minimum, and you're only at 6.4 days. I'm saying this as a guy that hates ecchi and fan service myself. because most people aren't as irrational to completely be offput by an entire show because of a scene they may have found one uncomfortable, which is a point going as far as giving you the benefit of the doubt in assuming you are in a majority of users who found that disgusting there's also the fact that there is still a such thing as values dissonance between people so therefore what you see as a major problem won't apply to other people in their approach to a product, which is something that applies to @149597871 as well believe you're correct in your sense of morality as much as you two want, i really hate discussions about these topics so i will probably not pay attention, but i really kind of see it as common sense that one individual's values aren't static amongst the entire collective, and i find it somewhat asinine that a major aspect of both of your posts is essentially just asking why doesn't everybody has the exact same set of values and interpretation of certain scenes or elements to a product as the two of you are having when it comes to these matters of interpretation in application to certain anime |
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Deknijff said: Oh, I know story structure issues aren't inherent to ecchi, but neither is fanservice itself. The problem is that anime has a really bad tendency to prioritize fanservice over good storytelling. It's just one possible storytelling flaw among many, but it's this particular flaw I see pop up over and over again in anime.Ardania22 said: Well not everything has to be necessary Id say honestly. If there is room to add things that people like and it doesn't get in the way of character development or plot progression its all good. You can find these things in several shows. So I would even say your complaint at the end isn't a matter of fan service being a problem. But a problem of story structure of which isn't limited towards fan service and can be found in shows that doesn't have ecchi if one would look. No arguments there, but there's a big difference between just having attractive characters and using them for unnecessary fanservice, and most anime opt for the latter. As an example of the former, look at FMA Brotherhood. All the characters are drop-dead gorgeous, but outside of a small handful of out-of-place fanservice moments in the back half, the only female character who gets regularly sexualized by the camera/characters is Lust. Which makes sense, because how do you now be sexual with a character who's the literal embodiment of sexual desire? Attractive characters aren't off-putting. Focusing on said characters' attractiveness to the detriment of tone and story is. All female characters in FMA Brotherhood look like body builders or look chunky to me. Lust is the only attractive character but she dies like in the beginning of the show even so I feel disappointed |
| Why the fuck do people respond to shit posts like this 1+ To depression Every time I look at which posts got popular I'm god damn disappointed on you people, why the fuck do you make shit like this popular? I don't care at this point since it's already popular as shit, but whoever even responds at the start... Please don't, these are garbage posts and threads, and they spawn fucking cancer in the form of replies Mods should instantly lock shit posts like these after OP has gotten ONE good response... Max, a few responses, but not fucking 100+ like every time I see one You block meme posts in general discussion/spam but you let this shit through mods? Fuck the rules of this garbage site It's sad how I've literally developed a new sense that instantly detects trash tier posts by just looking at the titles.... I can already feel the cancer just by looking at it I must have become a god damn MAL Newtype, ready to pilot the cancer machine |
Ardania22 said: Deknijff said: Oh, I know story structure issues aren't inherent to ecchi, but neither is fanservice itself. The problem is that anime has a really bad tendency to prioritize fanservice over good storytelling. It's just one possible storytelling flaw among many, but it's this particular flaw I see pop up over and over again in anime.Well not everything has to be necessary Id say honestly. If there is room to add things that people like and it doesn't get in the way of character development or plot progression its all good. You can find these things in several shows. So I would even say your complaint at the end isn't a matter of fan service being a problem. But a problem of story structure of which isn't limited towards fan service and can be found in shows that doesn't have ecchi if one would look. All female characters in FMA Brotherhood look like body builders or look chunky to me. Lust is the only attractive character but she dies like in the beginning of the show even so I feel disappointed like what ttgl, bnha, haruhi and sao didn't, with the amount of screentime distributed to fanservice in those series it'd be basically impossible to argue otherwise and those are the only shows you've brought up in this discussion so far Soriki said: Why the fuck do people respond to shit posts like this 1+ To depression Every time I look at which posts got popular I'm god damn disappointed on you people, why the fuck do you make shit like this popular? I don't care at this point since it's already popular as shit, but whoever even responds at the start... Please don't, these are garbage posts and threads, and they spawn fucking cancer in the form of replies Mods should instantly lock shit posts like these after OP has gotten ONE good response... Max, a few responses, but not fucking 100+ like every time I see one You block meme posts in general discussion/spam but you let this shit through mods? Fuck the rules of this garbage site you are the most rational user in this thread currently and i applaud you |
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Manaban said: I never said I was completely put off Steins;Gate by that one scene. I LOVE Steins;Gate. But that one scene was unnecessary, ugly, and left a bad taste in my mouth for a few minutes afterward. It didn't NEED that scene, and it pisses me off that it exists. When I talk about how pervasive I feel this problem is, that's a perfect example of why. Steins;Gate is a really good anime that thrives on the strength of its characters, theme, etc, and it STILL thought it needed an unfunny groping scene.from this point forward i will no longer write proper english in this thread because i see no longer see any reason to put forth the effort Ardania22 said: Problem is, it isn't isolated to ecchi stuff. It gets into shows that I otherwise really like as well. Like, Steins;Gate has a scene where the main character violently gropes one of his female colleagues, with her crying and begging him to stop, and it's played off as a joke. And that's the friggin 4th highest rated anime on this site. I really wish I could just avoid it and stick to the stuff I like, but I'd have to give up a lot of shows I otherwise enjoy. because most people aren't as irrational to completely be offput by an entire show because of a scene they may have found one uncomfortable, which is a point going as far as giving you the benefit of the doubt in assuming you are in a majority of users who found that disgusting there's also the fact that there is still a such thing as values dissonance between people so therefore what you see as a major problem won't apply to other people in their approach to a product, which is something that applies to @149597871 as well believe you're correct in your sense of morality as much as you two want, i really hate discussions about these topics so i will probably not pay attention, but i really kind of see it as common sense that one individual's values aren't static amongst the entire collective, and i find it somewhat asinine that you're both questioning why not everybody has the exact same set of values and interpretation of certain scenes or elements to a product as the two of you are having when it comes to these matters of interpretation in application to certain anime |
Ardania22 said: Manaban said: I never said I was completely put off Steins;Gate by that one scene. I LOVE Steins;Gate. But that one scene was unnecessary, ugly, and left a bad taste in my mouth for a few minutes afterward. It didn't NEED that scene, and it pisses me off that it exists. When I talk about how pervasive I feel this problem is, that's a perfect example of why. Steins;Gate is a really good anime that thrives on the strength of its characters, theme, etc, and it STILL thought it needed an unfunny groping scene.from this point forward i will no longer write proper english in this thread because i see no longer see any reason to put forth the effort because most people aren't as irrational to completely be offput by an entire show because of a scene they may have found one uncomfortable, which is a point going as far as giving you the benefit of the doubt in assuming you are in a majority of users who found that disgusting there's also the fact that there is still a such thing as values dissonance between people so therefore what you see as a major problem won't apply to other people in their approach to a product, which is something that applies to @149597871 as well believe you're correct in your sense of morality as much as you two want, i really hate discussions about these topics so i will probably not pay attention, but i really kind of see it as common sense that one individual's values aren't static amongst the entire collective, and i find it somewhat asinine that you're both questioning why not everybody has the exact same set of values and interpretation of certain scenes or elements to a product as the two of you are having when it comes to these matters of interpretation in application to certain anime ok but you were saying that in spite of that scene it was still the #4 ranked anime on this site currently Ardania22 said: Like, Steins;Gate has a scene where the main character violently gropes one of his female colleagues, with her crying and begging him to stop, and it's played off as a joke. And that's the friggin 4th highest rated anime on this site. so all i did was bring up the potential that people weren't as bothered by that scene as you were because your sense of what you find problematic isn't a set value that applies to every single person |
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Manaban said: Um... what do you mean, those shows didn't? There are clear instances in each of those shows where the camera focuses on t&a gratuitously, at the expense of everything else.Ardania22 said: Oh, I know story structure issues aren't inherent to ecchi, but neither is fanservice itself. The problem is that anime has a really bad tendency to prioritize fanservice over good storytelling. It's just one possible storytelling flaw among many, but it's this particular flaw I see pop up over and over again in anime. like what ttgl, bnha, haruhi and sao didn't, with the amount of screentime distributed to fanservice in those series it'd be basically impossible to argue otherwise and those are the only shows you've brought up in this discussion so far TTGL: Everything about Yoko BNHA: Everything about Mineta Haruhi: Whenever Haruhi sexually assaults the future girl (I'm terrible with names) SAO: Random ass shots even when the scene isn't about said ass shots, tentacle groping, attempted rape, etc, etc... |
SeidouTZ said: A character can be smart, strong, cool or any other feature you may find appealing and at the same time be displayed in a sexy manner. One does not condition the other. You are free to find it unappealing sure, but dont go on to put all your apples in one basket. There is more to a character then just its sex appeal, so don't take things at face value. don't worry, you can say this as much as you want and people will still operate in the surface level extremity of ruined4ever once a character has a panty shot have tried, have been trying for months now, the only thing i look forward to when i wake up in the morning is that the sweet release of death is a day closer Ardania22 said: Manaban said: Um... what do you mean, those shows didn't? There are clear instances in each of those shows where the camera focuses on t&a gratuitously, at the expense of everything else.like what ttgl, bnha, haruhi and sao didn't, with the amount of screentime distributed to fanservice in those series it'd be basically impossible to argue otherwise and those are the only shows you've brought up in this discussion so far TTGL: Everything about Yoko BNHA: Everything about Mineta Haruhi: Whenever Haruhi sexually assaults the future girl (I'm terrible with names) SAO: Random ass shots even when the scene isn't about said ass shots, tentacle groping, attempted rape, etc, etc... i'm talking about viewing this on a holistic level taking the entire product into question rather than a few isolated scenes, hence why i was talking about the amount of screentime allotted to these elements as opposed to just "not having these scenes" as you are trying to argue for how did they impact the narrative on a broader scale is what i am asking you |
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