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| The soundtrack this episode was fucking on point. All of that music fit the scenes like a glove. Was funny watching every other contender just sit there and watch the fight. I didn't know that he couldn't form a spirit bomb in super saiyan because that form naturally generates malice? Guess you learn something new everyday. Guess the Kid Buu fight didn't count because he already had it formed before he transformed. And I guess when he turned super saiyan 3 and absorbed it for an attack didn't count either. Kind of ridiculous watching how new forms don't even matter anymore. I was always under the impression that SS God was stronger than Blue which is why Goku uses it sparingly, but Blue allows for better Ki management. Apparently not because Jiren made SS God look like pussy shit and Blue+ Kaioken nudged him. Not only that, but this new Ultra Instinct mode took everything just to land two actual hits on Jiren, yet you can see in the preview for next week that Hit, who should be way weaker than UI mode, manages to go toe to toe with Jiren and land multiple hits. If we're gonna hand out powerups like candy that work for 5 minutes and then are invalidated right afterwards, then it would at least be great to give Vegeta and Gohan some love. I highly doubt Frieza is plotting to kill Goku right there either. When Frieza mentions the nostalgia of the scene on Namek, he's probably referring to when Frieza was on his death bed and Goku gave him energy. |
Jigokou said: Jonesy974 said: Not only that, but this new Ultra Instinct mode took everything just to land two actual hits on Jiren, yet you can see in the preview for next week that Hit, who should be way weaker than UI mode, manages to go toe to toe with Jiren and land multiple hits. Oh, I didn't even see that. Turned the video off the moment the Episode ended. Wonder how they are going to explain that. It took Ultra Instinct Goku to fight on par with Jiren. And even then it looked like Jiren was holding back, because until Goku performed his final attack, I don't think we ever saw Jiren's aura. So while all the God's of Destruction were crapping their pants at Goku's new found power, Jiren was still holding back. Hit should be curb stomped immediately. Exactly. I mean it looks like Hit gets absolutely rocked for the majority of it, butt he definitely lands actual hits, plural. And knocks Jiren back in the preview. Wouldn't be surprised if Hit gets eliminated next week though. |
| Wow, Jiren is on sooo another level. He's clearly above Goku, but what 'bout GODs? Is he the One stronger that the hakaishin? I know a lot of You are in dispute of power levels. Is it worth trying to bring it back into Super? We may not hear officially about exact power, but we can estimate it by ourselves. First of all, You have to understand that they tend to show most important transformations/fights with extra distinction. Second thing, the fights are going at super speed, and sometimes when they go Blue, God or even SSJ, they do it just for miliseconds. No fireworks needed. We can't be sure of the differences between GODs, Jiren and Goku, as well as exact Blue and KK multiplier. I didn't want to go into millions or higher, so I just assumed that average Hakaishin has power lvl around 950 and thus the following: Hakaishins: 900-1000 Jiren: 800 Goku SSJB KKx20: 400 (he struggled a lot even in this form, so let's say Gokue is 2times weaker) Goku SSJB: 20 (just logic if you consider previous statement) Goku SSJG: 15 (just my speculation with benefits for God) Goku SSJ3: 5 (another speculation) Goku SSJ2: 2,5 Goku SSJ1: 1,25 Goku base form: 0.025 (considering SSJ3 is x200) So yeah...good luck with that. If we want to go further and assume that blue for God is what SSJ is for base, then It becomes even more sick. But as I said earlier, we can't be sure. Jiren being 800 and toying with Goku could mean he's just slightly stronger with Goku's power at 600-700, or is eveng more times powerful. Aaaand my estimation for angels: Angels: 1200-1500 Grand Priest: 3000-5000 |
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Jonesy974 said: Not only that, but this new Ultra Instinct mode took everything just to land two actual hits on Jiren, yet you can see in the preview for next week that Hit, who should be way weaker than UI mode, manages to go toe to toe with Jiren and land multiple hits. After watching the clip again, Hit only landed one attack on him, and every one of his time skips were being countered, as well as his invisible energy attack. The one attack he did land didn't look effectual, at least from the preview. Also he may not have been taking it that serious since he didn't immediately destroy SSB. |
blade81tabris said: Wow, Jiren is on sooo another level. He's clearly above Goku, but what 'bout GODs? Is he the One stronger that the hakaishin? It's been said in the episode that Jiren IS Hakaishin level, and possibly stronger. |
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MyKamiList said: blade81tabris said: Wow, Jiren is on sooo another level. He's clearly above Goku, but what 'bout GODs? Is he the One stronger that the hakaishin? It's been said in the episode that Jiren IS Hakaishin level, and possibly stronger. And what does it mean? To be on Hakaishin level? He may be close, but not stronger. There could be still someone at least as strong as him. Although personally I'm sure for 90% this "mortal stronger than god" is reffered to Jiren. But what I meat when mentioning gods, was: is he stronger than any Hakaishin? Is Beerus weaker, equal or above Jiren? |
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blade81tabris said: MyKamiList said: It's been said in the episode that Jiren IS Hakaishin level, and possibly stronger. And what does it mean? To be on Hakaishin level? He may be close, but not stronger. There could be still someone at least as strong as him. Although personally I'm sure for 90% this "mortal stronger than god" is reffered to Jiren. But what I meat when mentioning gods, was: is he stronger than any Hakaishin? Is Beerus weaker, equal or above Jiren? The show pretty much implies that he is stronger. |
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| Haha, they made Frieza from a evil becomes a good guy. |
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The_Nut_Cracker said: Yay another new uninspired boring saiyan transformation to add to the mix(they really should have stopped at super saiyan 3). 2/5 Actually you are quite wrong. First of all the last New Saiyan Transformation was the SSJ3. Super Saiyan God is not a new Form and neither is blue. SSJG is just Base Goku but with God KI and Blue is just the normal Super Saiyan with God Ki, these are not new forms, Just Base form and ssj form with God Ki instead. and this Ultra Thing isnt a new form either since its just a state any race can obtain by the looks of it. Really amazing episode, loved it. |
Jonesy974 said: The soundtrack this episode was fucking on point. All of that music fit the scenes like a glove. Was funny watching every other contender just sit there and watch the fight. I didn't know that he couldn't form a spirit bomb in super saiyan because that form naturally generates malice? Guess you learn something new everyday. Guess the Kid Buu fight didn't count because he already had it formed before he transformed. And I guess when he turned super saiyan 3 and absorbed it for an attack didn't count either. Kind of ridiculous watching how new forms don't even matter anymore. I was always under the impression that SS God was stronger than Blue which is why Goku uses it sparingly, but Blue allows for better Ki management. Apparently not because Jiren made SS God look like pussy shit and Blue+ Kaioken nudged him. Not only that, but this new Ultra Instinct mode took everything just to land two actual hits on Jiren, yet you can see in the preview for next week that Hit, who should be way weaker than UI mode, manages to go toe to toe with Jiren and land multiple hits. If we're gonna hand out powerups like candy that work for 5 minutes and then are invalidated right afterwards, then it would at least be great to give Vegeta and Gohan some love. I highly doubt Frieza is plotting to kill Goku right there either. When Frieza mentions the nostalgia of the scene on Namek, he's probably referring to when Frieza was on his death bed and Goku gave him energy. You got that wrong because UI mode didnt start off that powerful. It was growing stronger every second, the first time Goku Managed to Hit Jiren followed by a Ki blasts, he started giving Jiren Trouble and if Goku UI Mode didnt go off Jiren Would Have lost the battle. |
Maitoz said: Jonesy974 said: The soundtrack this episode was fucking on point. All of that music fit the scenes like a glove. Was funny watching every other contender just sit there and watch the fight. I didn't know that he couldn't form a spirit bomb in super saiyan because that form naturally generates malice? Guess you learn something new everyday. Guess the Kid Buu fight didn't count because he already had it formed before he transformed. And I guess when he turned super saiyan 3 and absorbed it for an attack didn't count either. Kind of ridiculous watching how new forms don't even matter anymore. I was always under the impression that SS God was stronger than Blue which is why Goku uses it sparingly, but Blue allows for better Ki management. Apparently not because Jiren made SS God look like pussy shit and Blue+ Kaioken nudged him. Not only that, but this new Ultra Instinct mode took everything just to land two actual hits on Jiren, yet you can see in the preview for next week that Hit, who should be way weaker than UI mode, manages to go toe to toe with Jiren and land multiple hits. If we're gonna hand out powerups like candy that work for 5 minutes and then are invalidated right afterwards, then it would at least be great to give Vegeta and Gohan some love. I highly doubt Frieza is plotting to kill Goku right there either. When Frieza mentions the nostalgia of the scene on Namek, he's probably referring to when Frieza was on his death bed and Goku gave him energy. You got that wrong because UI mode didnt start off that powerful. It was growing stronger every second, the first time Goku Managed to Hit Jiren followed by a Ki blasts, he started giving Jiren Trouble and if Goku UI Mode didnt go off Jiren Would Have lost the battle. Nah, Goku would've had to been in UI mode WAYYY longer for him to stand a chance. Even throughout that entire fight Jiren wasn't even trying, he was nowhere near using his real strength. He didn't even bother generating any kind of aura until he felt like blowing Goku away. |
Jonesy974 said: Maitoz said: You got that wrong because UI mode didnt start off that powerful. It was growing stronger every second, the first time Goku Managed to Hit Jiren followed by a Ki blasts, he started giving Jiren Trouble and if Goku UI Mode didnt go off Jiren Would Have lost the battle. Nah, Goku would've had to been in UI mode WAYYY longer for him to stand a chance. Even throughout that entire fight Jiren wasn't even trying, he was nowhere near using his real strength. He didn't even bother generating any kind of aura until he felt like blowing Goku away. Still the Main point was that Goku was going to beat Jiren if the State didnt Go off, if you watch the fight it didnt Seem that Jiren was gonna end it anytime soon so Goku was going to end up winning the battle. Jiren Didnt even touch hit him a single time. |
| This Jiren guy is just on a whole other level. Not even a literal deus ex machina did shit to him, I'm not even upset anymore, just fucking impressed on just how overpowered this motherfucker really is even for Dragon Ball standards. Again, said deus ex machina could be slightly foreshadowed not to be one if only they follow the freaking rules for the Genkidama (only pure heart people are unaffected and can create it iirc, thus Goku wouldn't take the damage for it ever anyway, giving room for thought about what would happen if he did got hit by it). About people in here talking down the Mafuba attributes for good people as well, Vegeta did had malice in his heart in a given point. I would argue the God Super Sayan thing at the beginning was bullshit, but not this. |
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Danpmss said: This Jiren guy is just on a whole other level. Not even a literal deus ex machina did shit to him, I'm not even upset anymore, just fucking impressed on just how overpowered this motherfucker really is even for Dragon Ball standards. Again, said deus ex machina could be slightly foreshadowed not to be one if only they follow the freaking rules for the Genkidama (only pure heart people are unaffected and can create it iirc, thus Goku wouldn't take the damage for it ever anyway, giving room for thought about what would happen if he did got hit by it). About people in here talking down the Mafuba attributes for good people as well, Vegeta did had malice in his heart in a given point. I would argue the God Super Sayan thing at the beginning was bullshit, but not this. I dont remember being said in the Dragon Ball Manga that the Spirit bomb cannot hurt Good hearted beings, I only remember that the Good people can deflect it easier and things like that. Its a Ball of Energy after all but since its energy is pure it can only be made by the pure of heart like Goku And I guess that the Good hearted people can deflect it easier because the Pure Energy is really light for the good hearted beings. |
IcyGlacier said: Danpmss said: This Jiren guy is just on a whole other level. Not even a literal deus ex machina did shit to him, I'm not even upset anymore, just fucking impressed on just how overpowered this motherfucker really is even for Dragon Ball standards. Again, said deus ex machina could be slightly foreshadowed not to be one if only they follow the freaking rules for the Genkidama (only pure heart people are unaffected and can create it iirc, thus Goku wouldn't take the damage for it ever anyway, giving room for thought about what would happen if he did got hit by it). About people in here talking down the Mafuba attributes for good people as well, Vegeta did had malice in his heart in a given point. I would argue the God Super Sayan thing at the beginning was bullshit, but not this. I dont remember being said in the Dragon Ball Manga that the Spirit bomb cannot hurt Good hearted beings, I only remember that the Good people can deflect it easier and things like that. Its a Ball of Energy after all but since its energy is pure it can only be made by the pure of heart like Goku And I guess that the Good hearted people can deflect it easier because the Pure Energy is really light for the good hearted beings. I may need to reread the manga in that case. Maybe the translation was off in my mother language (I could swear they mentioned that at some point). In each case, this was something that came with zero foreshadowing whatsoever, which would be quite an asspull overall (though at least that whole "Ultra Instinct" thing was mentioned/hinted at to be a big deal like, during the first 18 episodes or so (iirc, that was the whole point of Goku, Vegeta and even Beerus training under Whis guidance, right?). In the end, this power-up was actually expected at some point, but the whole build-up for it falls flat without a proper take in the Genkidama thing (what they made it be was like... genkidama absorption paired with UI being triggered, and it wasn't exactly that well executed). Again, there's always the manga to look forward to, as the whole power scheme and rules are way better handled in it. |
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IcyGlacier said: i think he said it once and only one when krillin's spirit bomb to vegeta went towards gohan insteadDanpmss said: This Jiren guy is just on a whole other level. Not even a literal deus ex machina did shit to him, I'm not even upset anymore, just fucking impressed on just how overpowered this motherfucker really is even for Dragon Ball standards. Again, said deus ex machina could be slightly foreshadowed not to be one if only they follow the freaking rules for the Genkidama (only pure heart people are unaffected and can create it iirc, thus Goku wouldn't take the damage for it ever anyway, giving room for thought about what would happen if he did got hit by it). About people in here talking down the Mafuba attributes for good people as well, Vegeta did had malice in his heart in a given point. I would argue the God Super Sayan thing at the beginning was bullshit, but not this. I dont remember being said in the Dragon Ball Manga that the Spirit bomb cannot hurt Good hearted beings, I only remember that the Good people can deflect it easier and things like that. Its a Ball of Energy after all but since its energy is pure it can only be made by the pure of heart like Goku And I guess that the Good hearted people can deflect it easier because the Pure Energy is really light for the good hearted beings. |
Cross  AngeHey guys check my profile for current airing season anime recommendation (guaranteed best taste) |
Danpmss said: IcyGlacier said: I dont remember being said in the Dragon Ball Manga that the Spirit bomb cannot hurt Good hearted beings, I only remember that the Good people can deflect it easier and things like that. Its a Ball of Energy after all but since its energy is pure it can only be made by the pure of heart like Goku And I guess that the Good hearted people can deflect it easier because the Pure Energy is really light for the good hearted beings. I may need to reread the manga in that case. Maybe the translation was off in my mother language (I could swear they mentioned that at some point). In each case, this was something that came with zero foreshadowing whatsoever, which would be quite an asspull overall (though at least that whole "Ultra Instinct" thing was mentioned/hinted at to be a big deal like, during the first 18 episodes or so (iirc, that was the whole point of Goku, Vegeta and even Beerus training under Whis guidance, right?). In the end, this power-up was actually expected at some point, but the whole build-up for it falls flat without a proper take in the Genkidama thing (what they made it be was like... genkidama absorption paired with UI being triggered, and it wasn't exactly that well executed). Again, there's always the manga to look forward to, as the whole power scheme and rules are way better handled in it. Not sure, I read it in Spanish not english so maybe It was different in there. I think it was in the Ress of F saga that Whis was trying to teach Goku and Vegeta the Ultra Instinct which beerus controls a bit of (In the Manga it seems that they showed beerus using it a bit vs the other Gods to test the ring). But yeah as always the manga explains everything in more detail so its better to just enjoy the anime while waiting for a better explanation from the manga. |
ultra instinct explanation basically |
Cross AngeHey guys check my profile for current airing season anime recommendation (guaranteed best taste) |
Maitoz said: Jonesy974 said: Nah, Goku would've had to been in UI mode WAYYY longer for him to stand a chance. Even throughout that entire fight Jiren wasn't even trying, he was nowhere near using his real strength. He didn't even bother generating any kind of aura until he felt like blowing Goku away. Still the Main point was that Goku was going to beat Jiren if the State didnt Go off, if you watch the fight it didnt Seem that Jiren was gonna end it anytime soon so Goku was going to end up winning the battle. Jiren Didnt even touch hit him a single time. I'm pretty sure that Jiren was just testing out Goku's newfound strength at the time if he didn't even bother powering up enough to fight back seriously. He even makes a passing remark after Goku's UI mode ends saying "Saiyans are interesting, but this is your limit". Implying Jiren probably knew that Goku wouldn't be able to maintain it long enough to pose a threat. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree lol. |
| Was cool in animation and sound track, Though full of plot holes and plot armour. But I would give credits as it is only episode beside 105 of this arc that I actually enjoyed. The greatest problem here is Jiren being to blank of a character, I mean make it at least as interesting as Androids if not better |
Nagato-Uzumaki13Oct 11, 2017 10:48 PM
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| This episode was amazing 10/10, can not wait for Hit vs Jiren. |
| I love the episode but the thing is, aren't you guys fed up of these transformations? there's too many of it. Can't just Goku get stronger without even have to transform? Seems like Akira Toriyama is obsessed with hair dye. |
 She got him back. If you understand the characters well enough, you'd know she did! |
| So I am pretty sure one of the rules of this tournament was that they were not allowed to fly unless they had something like wings? They sure did not have a problem with Jiren and Goku floating in the air and fighting during the second half of the fight. |
| Othinus Touma Pairing http://hestia.dance/ |
QueenBulma said: I love the episode but the thing is, aren't you guys fed up of these transformations? there's too many of it. Can't just Goku get stronger without even have to transform? Seems like Akira Toriyama is obsessed with hair dye. If you really think about it we only have 3 different transformations which are SSJ1 SSJ2 And SSJ3. God forms are not really anything new, Saiyan God is just Base Goku with Godly KI instead of Normal Ki and Blue is just normal SSJ1 with God KI instead of Normal one. And Ultra Instinc is not a new form either. Just some state that give certain abilities. DragoonDeus said: So I am pretty sure one of the rules of this tournament was that they were not allowed to fly unless they had something like wings? They sure did not have a problem with Jiren and Goku floating in the air and fighting during the second half of the fight. I think it all happened to fast and it looks like they are flying to us Watchers. And you can kinda see in the background that it seems that they are failling or something |
| I thought that the spirit bomb is an accumulation of good energies so can't affect some characters and technically defeated Goku. Goku can't lose so power up and let the show continue. |
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| Damn i am flashed on so many levels |
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DocCgill said: That episode... Oh my god I felt like a little kid watch dbz again. Thank you so much Dragon Ball Super!! You got the point man |
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| Please let my vegi-san kick frieza's butt to help goku!! |
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| Goku can see the matrix now cool |
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Axelucard said: Goku can see the matrix now cool That was my first thought too. He behaved like Neo at the end of the first movie hehehe |
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| Nice Frieza moments. He's so cute helping Goku (twice). As for the "new form", the only advantage it has was to have Goku without his SSJ hair cut. The second advantage I was expecting from it, an actual hand-to-hand fight (that we can see) made of several pictures didn't happen. I should have learned not to expect that kind of thing anymore after the Mutenroshi episode. And of course, a typical DB animation stupidity: Genkidama absorption... Hey, since Bejita is notoriously able to survive a genkidama hit, we know what needs to be done! (though, he should already have awakened when he came to Earth xD) 1/5 Great to have them insert songs again, though it wasn't exciting, unlike in the 21st tournament or the Androids saga. |
Rei_IIINov 4, 2017 8:30 AM
| Damn, Goku got outclassed before his upgrade. I wonder how many Gods are going to let the Saiyan as a race get stronger… maybe we are going to see a new purge of the race in the near future…? |
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| They talked too much |
| That was really epic, one of the best moments in the Dragon Ball history. Now Hit vs Jiren. I don't think that Hit has much chance of winning, but at least will be nice to watch. |
| THIS IS WHAT I CALL DRAGON BALL! THAT WAS SOOOOOOOOO EPIC! THE LAST SCENE WITH FRIEZA! OH GODDDD I'M BEING LIKE A LITTLE KID! 10/5 |
| Great Freiya face a few seconds before to kill Goku, or not? kekeke Well, it was a strange evolution but i suppose that he is away of the "Diamond-God Mode" lol |
| The Genki Dama. Goku is pushing it back. Jiren is doing it arms free. Just his eyes. Jiren is within the realm of being a Hakaishin. Jiren is stronger than his Hakaishin? The Genki Dama shrinks. Goku is falling into it. Jiren wins? Goku is gone? Zen-chan is going to press on hist best friend Goku. Dat rumble. Here it comes. Dat light. Jiren walks closer. WTF! Goku has a new form? Zen-chan is happy Goku is alive. WTF! He went by Jiren in an instant. OH SHIT! DAT INSERT SONG! OH SHIT! Goku blocks Top and Beer's cousin attack. OH SHIT! Goku is walking away from Top's Justic Flash. Oh snap! They used the Goku vs Jiren scene at the beginning of the OP. Zen-chan is excited by his bets friend Goku. Something extremely wonderful is happening to Goku? Beers is sweating. Migatte no Gokui? What an episode. A form stronger than SSGSS itself and Jiren is still stronger than it. Did Toriyama even come up with this form? With that said... GA GA GA GA GACHI DAZE! Note: Migatte no Gokui translates to Secret of Selfishness or Mastery of Self-Movement. Ultra Instinct is an English original term they decided on. |
RobJun 22, 2020 3:00 PM
| If you see that my post is exactly 1 month old (or more) from when it was posted... Don't waste your time, especially when you want to reply with something petty & insignificant. Assume that I've moved on (because I have). |
| Goku went Ultra Instinct which terrified even the gods. Great Job. |
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| ABSOLUTELY LOVED IT! Ultra Instinct looks so badass, Goku's calm demeanor during all of it added even more. So this is basically what Whis was talking about during their early sparring with him, body reacting without having to think, automatically doing what it needs to, it seems he finally was able to reach that state. Now for Goku to reach it again and be able to use it for longer. This basically makes Goku stronger than most gods, whereas before he could go on par with Beerus it seems he's gone beyond Beerus' power now seeing as Beerus can't use this Ultra Instinct way of fighting, at least not entirely. Wonder what Frieza is up to though, not sure how Goku just disappeared like that. |
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| I've tried to avoid thinking about it, but are the Zenos just audience surrogates? They thrive on being entertained, they hold the power to support or instantly erase content as they see fit, and their reactions are just so...stereotypically childish? Is this what the show's creators see in its audience? Also, it's a personal pet peeve not specific to Dragon Ball, but seeing the power of gods be treated as more of a threshold to reach is always worrisome. Once you become god, what's next? Where does a series go from there? It's a way to drive up hype for a series, but upon hitting that level of escalation, what else can a series do? |
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