Seikaisuru Kado Episode 5 Discussion

Vinyet said:


As the scientist said, it's not about the material, but the shape. The Wam are higher dimension shapes, like the tesseract: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbprfcSVcyQ

This also makes Shindo's origami hobby relevant.

Vinyet said:


As the scientist said, it's not about the material, but the shape. The Wam are higher dimension shapes, like the tesseract: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbprfcSVcyQ

This also makes Shindo's origami hobby relevant.

m-i-c-h-a-e-l said:


But still, the problem is a normal human shouldn't be able to fold paper into those higher dimensions.

MegaBlasta said:


This.
I would have understood if the anisotropic pulled the paper through his dimension to do it, but it makes no sense for humans to be able to make infinite power through origami. A real sharp, uninteresting curve for this plot.

I've seen this pattern happen when writers create really interesting ideas and then all of a sudden the plot flops face first...*coughgargantiacough*....seems like this is one of em. I'll still be looking forward to seeing what happens next so far, but I am definitely disappointed in this current direction.

MegaBlasta said:


This.
I would have understood if the anisotropic pulled the paper through his dimension to do it, but it makes no sense for humans to be able to make infinite power through origami. A real sharp, uninteresting curve for this plot.

I've seen this pattern happen when writers create really interesting ideas and then all of a sudden the plot flops face first...*coughgargantiacough*....seems like this is one of em. I'll still be looking forward to seeing what happens next so far, but I am definitely disappointed in this current direction.

SalemWitch said:

My guess is that anyone being able to fold Wams into existence has something to do with the arrival of zaShunina and Kado, or them introducing an element to humanity we still don't know of... though I'm no scientist and this is just a wild guess. I hope they come up with a plausible pseudo explanation next episode for how it's possible for an origami to turn into a Wam lol :D

Anathor said:

She did say that there was a trick to it and once you understand that you can create Wam.
However she didn't say what that trick was, so next week should probably explain it better.

RainbowIslands said:


Wams are only the portals towards energy, they aren't generating anything. They are doors to allow infinite energy from the 4th+ dimensions to flow into our 3D world.

This is how I think it works: Think of a cubic room as our 3D world, all six sides solid walls, and the outside of the cube the other dimensions. If we create a hole on one of the walls, then the air (the energy) from outside can flow in. The Scientist girl (Shinawa Kanata) was able to create/mimic a specific shape that "pokes" a hole within our 3D world, and thus allow that energy to flow in. Once there is a connection between inside and out, Kado (the computing cube thing) can route the energy through it. Energy, unlike matter, has no specific shape, so thus do not require any special calculations or medium. Thus the material of the wam doesn't matter, because it is routing shapeless things into our world. This obvious requires help from the 4th+ dimension, so thus never worked until zaShunina arrived. If this is the case, then why does it take Kado so long to make 200 of them? Maybe there is an efficiency disparity between those colored ones vs. DIY ones.

Also thinking about the plane:
Now that I think about it, I think I understand why it takes like <1 minute for the airplane to enter Kado, and more time to release everyone out. Bringing a lower dimension to the higher dimension is easy: Lift a piece of paper up from the corners, tada, your drawing (on the paper) is now in a 3D-space. You augmented the existing spatial data with extra information. However, when putting it back, we need to angle it parallel to the surface and project it down, if we want it to be back to original position. Obviously at 4th+ dimension, there are more potential projections and thus require calculations. By projecting from 4+ to 3 dimensions, we need to limit the information loss from projecting to the extraneous "extra dimensions", or else we will end up with parts lost. (like how zaShunina's arms are floating around him. His anatomy might allow disconnects, but humans might not) Thus the time required to calculate.

This episode/series is pretty interesting. Obviously fictional, but with enough scientific/logical basis that it might work.

DmonHiro said:
One one had, yes, you can use the Wam for terrorism. On the other, if you literally have infinite power, why do you even need to resort to terrorism? In it's simplest form terrorism wants to take things from other. The poorest countries are more prone to that because they are poor. But what if they weren't poor?

MegaBlasta said:


One: I would like to point out that being able to create WAM yourself has not been specified as a result to zaShunina's arrival, or KADO's involvement of rerouting the energy of WAM into our world. Kado has been explained as being able to turn things from our 3rd dimension into his dimension and vice versa, but nothing has been said at all that his arrival to that universe had any worldwide affects, so I do not see why you would say that would be the case.

Two: We could talk about actual dimensions and how her being able to punch through the time dimension with a piece of paper is utter BS, but that's not the problem.
The problem is not the faulty reality of the situation, but the faulty of the reality within the world of this story. It would be more plausible if his solution was to ACTUALLY create some form of higher dimensional bomb that creates a chain reaction which that would FORCE a ton of wam into their world, because the solution would still be shrouded in the mystery of the higher plane which we are unable to fully understand. But now the solution was grounded into our world, where simply folding things into certain shapes to represent "funnels" which pour the energy from Za's world into ours when we were - and still are - never able to access and/or perceive ourselves. They started this story as something so close to realism with their accuracy of the concept of dimensions and processing of information, but then is stripped of that realism with this concept.

Three: As someone who knows Japanese, I can confirm that the trick she is referring to is the actual remembering the shape/making of the wam. To reword what she meant: "Well, there's a bit of a trick to doing it, but once you remember it, you'll be able to make it easy!"

dark-chaos said:


actually it's wrong logic
because the existence of poverty is what makes humanity evolve

for example imagine that everyone in the world have millions dollars, who would do haircut for you ?
and that what called "Devaluation"
when some country print more money then official lowering of the value of a country's currency
for example if everyone have millions then 1 million dollars will equal 5 dollars now

Now let's take another field, imagine you have medication treats all diseases why we will need doctors or evolve in medical field? simply no more evolve

and the energy not different if everyone have endless energy then the value of energy will decrease

last thing read the history I can't recall any war start because of Need for energy it's always about "ideology "

Hitler believed Germans must rule the world
The Mongols believed they must rule the world
...... etc , all biggest wars in history it's just about "ideology " someone who believe in something

give energy for everyone it's just like give everyone the opportunity to start ِwar

RainbowIslands said:


>> https://youtu.be/C6kn6nXMWF0?t=3m07s
Explains how 4D objects might look like if they pass through 3D space. This is inline with Za's shrinking detachable hand, which does not literally disappear in a split second.

1. The alternate idea of creating DIY wam was suggested by Za himself last episode, so it's definitely his idea. It's (probably) just that he didn't have a good grasp of 3D spatial geometry so he required a specialist (the girl scientist) to test it.
- Kado (which is basically a high-tech computer) + zaShunina's arrival didn't change anything about our world. That's because the 4th and onwards spatial dimensions (ones that zaShunina came from) is always there. As orthogonal objects, it's possible for them to "be there" and not interact with us. It's just that as 3D objects we have no way of perceiving it.

2. I'm speaking about spatial dimensions, not temporal dimensions. It is possible that the fractal shape creates a natural difference in potential energy, causing the shape to roll across a orthogonal 4D plane, and thus generating(transferring) energy into our world. As it is doing it across orthogonal plane, it would look like it's rotating across its own center, just like what is shown on screen.

- If you are not convinced, just replace this "wam infinite energy" with dark energy. We have no idea what it is, we can't detect it, but it is said to accelerate the expansion of our universe because we have evidence that our universe is expanding (and by elimination it must be it). Wam just allows us to access that energy. Since we have no idea what this kind of energy is, why must we be so certain that paper cannot be affected by it?

3. I can understand Japanese too. That's why I'm suggesting a metaphor towards how they're tapping into an different spatial dimension.

4. fregonics: Wasn't there a scene where they were attacking and testing it this episode? It's not being written off yet.

EDIT: I also forgot to mention that the shape of the DIY Wam also has a relationship with the arrangement of the original Wams. Maybe by lining up certain way allows her to see different cross-sections of its shape?

I'm sure they'll explain it somehow. I'm just saying it's plausible based on what I know about math and science. They did their research, and it shows.

MegaBlasta said:


??? Sorry I don't understand what the video was for. What point were you trying to make with that? I'm not trying to be smart, I just don't understand how that correlated to the point you were trying to make. Regardless, yes, I understand those concepts.

1- I never said it wasn't his idea, I said his arrival. What does it having to be his idea have anything to do with what I said?I said kado didn't changed anything about the world, and I understand why. You're misconstruing what I'm saying.
You said yourself " Once there is a connection between inside and out, Kado (the computing cube thing) can route the energy through it." Which would require kado to be calculating ALL the wam that people "create" and route that energy through, thus affecting the entire world. Why are you going back on your word?

2- To get to higher dimensions we would have to punch through our temporal dimension, thus creating the 4th and higher spatial dimensions. The change and/or fold the "duration" of any one dimension to a different point or in this case, the possibility in our temporal space (time traveling/warm holing) is the higher dimension. So for us to get to any higher dimensions, we would have to punch through our own temporal dimensions to reach the 4th spacial dimension.

I suggest you watch this to get a better understanding on higher dimensions in relation to lower ones: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gg85IH3vghA&t=968s
but I digress.

My problem isn't that paper cannot be affected by WAM energy, it is that simply folding a 3d shape in a 3d dimension could make it so you can access a higher plane. A 2 dimensional being can only fold and two dimensions, and will never be able to access the third dimension no matter how hard they tried. why does that work here? As Za said, he lives in a world that is adjacent to our world. So unless we are able to "bend" or "fold" in that spacial dimension at all, there is no way we can create a slope to access that plane. It always being there doesn't mean we're able to suddenly affect things in that dimension. it's a top down hierarchy.


3. Well for one, that had nothing to do with my bullet. I mean, that's cool that you understand it, but I was talking clearing up what she meant at the end when she said there's a trick to it.

What metaphor? I think everyone understood from episode 3 that they're tapping into the energy into Za's dimension. They've said it multiple times in the show so there's no "suggesting".


4. I'm talking about the fregonics when she created a shape that somehow accesses a higher dimensional plane. Za said he can access it himself, but the friction/distortion of the dimensions between makes the fregonics. I guess we will understand next episode, but why does it not appear when she so suddenly creates a shape that can interact with the 4th dimension.


You're explaining a lot of obvious aspects about the show, but not addressing my problem. Yes I understand how real dimensions work, but this story takes a realistic understanding of dimensions, and then says that I can fold my toilet paper to access infinite energy to power this infinitely powerful shit I'm going to take on this anime.
I kid of course.

I mean, shit dude, I didn't know this show had you using math and shit man I've been watching this show all wrong; maybe I should go back to grade school so I can be as smart as you.
(this time im being smart :p)

kuro123qwer said:
The paper Wam's are probably weaker versions of original Wam's, generating only enough energy for each person.

juui said:


That's what I thought too. And I guess, the better the material, the more efficient they'll be able to charge? Otherwise the original 197 Wam that were created would be a waste of time making..