Lord_Sithis said: Yes, I know but why do you need to point that out?Frag- said: I don't care about that. What I don't know if why you care about what I care for, since you quoted me in the first place, but oh well... I know they're treated as disorders, they're just not an infection or a broken ribcage, it's mental.Chemical imbalances is the reason of some mental disorder, it's a bad function in your brain causing them, near logic could go to any other illness. You can't generelize things. And yes, they ARE treated as disorders, wether you like it or not. I don't really know why you care about that, lol Illness just implies it's a health problem, not just a "infection or a broken ribcage". By that logic diabets is not a illness either. |
| Today they say you're crazy, tomorrow they will say you're a genious. |
Lord_Sithis said: Dieabets is a cause of chemical imbalance in the pancreas, not making it produce insuline. Chemical imbalances in your brain can cause disorders. (Brain is physical if I know it)Frag- said: Diabetes affects your physical body. And yes, mental illnesses are illnesses, just not physical ones.Yes, I know but why do you need to point that out? Illness just implies it's a health problem, not just a "infection or a broken ribcage". By that logic diabets is not a illness either. And wrong, mental disorders can affect your body, not directly, but they can. |
| Today they say you're crazy, tomorrow they will say you're a genious. |
Lord_Sithis said: No you don't.Frag- said: I know they can affect your body.Dieabets is a cause of chemical imbalance in the pancreas, not making it produce insuline. Chemical imbalances in your brain can cause disorders. (Brain is physical if I know it) And wrong, mental disorders can affect your body, not directly, but they can. Do I seriously need to explain to you the definition of mental illness and thus why is it different to the rest? You are just wrong in saying that they "aren't reall illness", because they ARE real illness. |
| Today they say you're crazy, tomorrow they will say you're a genious. |
TheBrainintheJar said: I'm outlining the difference between the general definition of mental illness, and what you count as suffering. Notice how you focus on empirical things, yet not all suffering is this empirical. Some of it is deeply personal, a thing of perception, of identity, of worldview. Not all suffering is directly physical. I picked simple examples, based on my own experiences considering how I felt at -that- time.. And you are right, not all suffering follows some basic and generic guideline. Just like depression, the cause, effect and solution are not straight forward. One person may get crippling depression from being dumped, and requires medication to get beyond it, another person cries for an hour, is sad for a week, then slowly moves on. There are so many factors that affect our mental health, and yes, many of them are -in our control-. Stress management. Exercise. Vitamin D. Balanced Diet. There is a huge list. When you see someone complain that they are out of shape, you tell them to go exercise, not direct them to the local steriod dealer. When -many- people complain about depression, we don't need to dismiss them as being babies, or start panicking that are suddenly going to off themselves. We should be supportive, and one -aspect- of it, would be to recommend things that help our mental health, and tell them, hey, maybe you should check in with a psychologist. I might the rarity, in that when I see 'mental illness', I automatically place that into the serious category of beyond self-help, but I suspect I am not. There's a range.. and alot of variables. It really isn't simply defined, easy to diagnose, or always easy to treat. Telling someone to get their asses out of the house and go for a walk is no -worse- then putting them on a suicide watch. Follow up, monitor, even suggest professional help, but for the love of god, keep encouraging them to maintain their mental health. TheBrainintheJar said: See PTSD. A man with PTSD, on the outside, looks fun. Due to the events causing PTSD, it affects their whole experience of being. I am well aware of what PTSD is, and depression in someone with PTSD is not what I am discussing. Worst case, special case, compounded cases are no what I am discussing. I am simply discussing depression in a general case. Although, since you brought it up, avoiding a PTSD trigger, would eating healthy and going on walks (or just being outside, say gardening) would be beneficial, harmful or completely irrelevant for someone with PTSD? Generally. And no, I won't discuss triggers. It's impossible to have any general discussion otherwise. Lets pretend for the sake of argument that the given tasks are already adjusted for particular cases. |
Lord_Sithis said: Funny cause you literally said that lol: Frag- said: I never said they aren't real.No you don't. You are just wrong in saying that they "aren't reall illness", because they ARE real illness. MAL, when do you plan to get rid of the character limit? Lord_Sithis said: And you're wrong saying it.They aren't "real" illnesses, even though they affect you. |
| Today they say you're crazy, tomorrow they will say you're a genious. |
| I can sympathize with people who have it, but I feel as though many people like to self diagnose themselves. For example, someone might say they have ocd because they hate germs or like to keep things tidy, but in actual truth this is common for a lot of people, it doesn't mean you have ocd. If it's not really impacting your life then you should reconsider. I also think people like to spout all these mental illneses they have to appear as though they have cool complex personalities or something. Most people who do, don't go around talking about it heaps because having it isn't exactly a good thing, and is not something you'd want to be identified by. |
| I think everybody has suffer with mental illness. It's just that we can control and take care of it. |
I feel so blue ... you are my world ... but you are not mine ♫    |
Lord_Sithis said: That "quotation mark" doesn't do too much, if a "real" illness in your vocabulary is pretty much physical illness, then it's wrong. Update your dictionary.Frag- said: I was expecting you to quote that. You purposely ignored the quotation marks and my immediately following post in which I explain that what I meant with that is that they're not really physical. But oh well, what would I expect from you tbh?Funny cause you literally said that lol: And you're wrong saying it. |
| Today they say you're crazy, tomorrow they will say you're a genious. |
Lord_Sithis said: I'm saying that the quotaiton mark doesn't make sense there, and nobody would think that. Illness just implies health problem.Frag- said: The "real" means that they're (mostly) not physical. Also, you changed the theme from mental illnesses to my dictionary. Nicely done.That "quotation mark" doesn't do too much, if a "real" illness in your vocabulary is pretty much physical illness, then it's wrong. Update your dictionary. I don't what change you're talking about. |
| Today they say you're crazy, tomorrow they will say you're a genious. |
Lord_Sithis said: As an outsider looking at your first post, it just seems you misused the word real. If you really meant physical, just use the word physical; ie "they aren't physical illnesses", they'd be 0 misunderstanding.Frag- said: I know they can affect your body.Dieabets is a cause of chemical imbalance in the pancreas, not making it produce insuline. Chemical imbalances in your brain can cause disorders. (Brain is physical if I know it) And wrong, mental disorders can affect your body, not directly, but they can. Do I seriously need to explain to you the definition of mental illness and thus why is it different to the rest? The word real can refer to other things, such as existence. "Mental illnesses don't exist" would sound very incorrect, for example. |
| @Lord_Sithis Tachii already cleafied it a bit. Thanks @Tachii |
| Today they say you're crazy, tomorrow they will say you're a genious. |
Lord_Sithis said: The usage of the quotation mark there didn't make sense and it's not refutable. It would mean that "real" was not reall "real". And I don't think that it was your intetion.Tachii said: Yeah, I explained that on my next post.As an outsider looking at your first post, it just seems you misused the word real. If you really meant physical, just use the word physical; ie "they aren't physical illnesses", they'd be 0 misunderstanding. Please, just accept you mistake... |
| Today they say you're crazy, tomorrow they will say you're a genious. |
Lord_Sithis said: I'm just pointing out that your first post is wrong the way it was built, even if it wasn't your intetion. Just accept it.Frag- said: What mistake? I said "real" meaning that they're just in the person's mind (most of the time anyways). If you think that's a mistake, good. Now we can stop talking about my word choice and start talking about mental illnesses right?The usage of the quotation mark there didn't make sense and it's not refutable. It would mean that "real" was not reall "real". And I don't think that it was your intetion. Please, just accept you mistake... I'm already gave my opnion on the OP, duh. |
| Today they say you're crazy, tomorrow they will say you're a genious. |
Lord_Sithis said: Uhh, then just stop quoting me, just say that you accept it, don't expect me to stop if you don't stop as well. We started the convo on thread, I will finish it on the thread.Frag- said: Then you could've posted a comment on my profile instead of 6 posts here talking about my mistake.I'm just pointing out that your first post is wrong the way it was built, even if it wasn't your intetion. Just accept it. I'm already gave my opnion on the OP, duh. I won't contribute to make OP's thread shitty by arguing about word choice instead of mental illness, so I'll just stop replying to the first ones. I hope you understand. Lol, I didn't even read the OP, I just answered the question on the title. If OP says it's a choice then he/she is wrong either. |
| Today they say you're crazy, tomorrow they will say you're a genious. |
Regnent said: TheBrainintheJar said: I'm outlining the difference between the general definition of mental illness, and what you count as suffering. Notice how you focus on empirical things, yet not all suffering is this empirical. Some of it is deeply personal, a thing of perception, of identity, of worldview. Not all suffering is directly physical. I picked simple examples, based on my own experiences considering how I felt at -that- time.. And you are right, not all suffering follows some basic and generic guideline. Just like depression, the cause, effect and solution are not straight forward. One person may get crippling depression from being dumped, and requires medication to get beyond it, another person cries for an hour, is sad for a week, then slowly moves on. There are so many factors that affect our mental health, and yes, many of them are -in our control-. Stress management. Exercise. Vitamin D. Balanced Diet. There is a huge list. When you see someone complain that they are out of shape, you tell them to go exercise, not direct them to the local steriod dealer. When -many- people complain about depression, we don't need to dismiss them as being babies, or start panicking that are suddenly going to off themselves. We should be supportive, and one -aspect- of it, would be to recommend things that help our mental health, and tell them, hey, maybe you should check in with a psychologist. I might the rarity, in that when I see 'mental illness', I automatically place that into the serious category of beyond self-help, but I suspect I am not. There's a range.. and alot of variables. It really isn't simply defined, easy to diagnose, or always easy to treat. Telling someone to get their asses out of the house and go for a walk is no -worse- then putting them on a suicide watch. Follow up, monitor, even suggest professional help, but for the love of god, keep encouraging them to maintain their mental health. TheBrainintheJar said: See PTSD. A man with PTSD, on the outside, looks fun. Due to the events causing PTSD, it affects their whole experience of being. I am well aware of what PTSD is, and depression in someone with PTSD is not what I am discussing. Worst case, special case, compounded cases are no what I am discussing. I am simply discussing depression in a general case. Although, since you brought it up, avoiding a PTSD trigger, would eating healthy and going on walks (or just being outside, say gardening) would be beneficial, harmful or completely irrelevant for someone with PTSD? Generally. And no, I won't discuss triggers. It's impossible to have any general discussion otherwise. Lets pretend for the sake of argument that the given tasks are already adjusted for particular cases. Suicide watch is an abuse of human rights. Suicide is a basic human right. Don't want people to die of their own will? Don't force them to live in the first place. I don't think you said that 'mental illness=beyond help'. Rather, it was implied that you can always get over it and that it's easy. You used your own story, which isn't about mental illness but specific problems we can all see from outside. What I meant was, depression is different than having no money. Both suck - but both require vastly different solutions. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
TheBrainintheJar said: I don't think you said that 'mental illness=beyond help'. Rather, it was implied that you can always get over it and that it's easy. You used your own story, which isn't about mental illness but specific problems we can all see from outside. What I meant was, depression is different than having no money. Both suck - but both require vastly different solutions. I said my opinion on the term of mental illness is beyond self help. My own personal severity of the term. Oh, so had I not adjusted to my issues, then I would be mentally ill? I was depressed. Several times. By your definition, it fell under mental illness. The fact that I did, or may not have adapted, is irrelevant according to your arguments. You avoid the questions concerning maintaining ones mental health, do you not consider them important or relevant? |
spuukiebuugi said: j0x said: a lot of people claim that mentally sick people are just weak and/or lazy the lazy part has some truth to it and scientists calls it this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avolition Well, it's still an imbalance in brain chemistry or improper brain wiring. In some cases, mental illness doesn't guarantee decreased productivity in every aspect either, maybe functionality, but some can feign normalcy well enough to be, or at least appear, productive. To act as if there's no biological or sociological foundation and that a significant portion of it is laziness is bullshit. considering that mental illness often manifests in childhood, and continues to grow, recede, or stay stagnant with time, especially. ye i agree its not totally laziness thats why i linked that technical word avolition and yep avolition is not seen on all mentally sick people, especially those with neurosis (mild mental illness) can be normally productive/functional in life |
Symphyon said: It is basically real though, in all honesty. I have depression (partially) and well Aspergers (a type of autism). Have you undergone professional advice to attend these findings? |
Regnent said: TheBrainintheJar said: I don't think you said that 'mental illness=beyond help'. Rather, it was implied that you can always get over it and that it's easy. You used your own story, which isn't about mental illness but specific problems we can all see from outside. What I meant was, depression is different than having no money. Both suck - but both require vastly different solutions. I said my opinion on the term of mental illness is beyond self help. My own personal severity of the term. Oh, so had I not adjusted to my issues, then I would be mentally ill? I was depressed. Several times. By your definition, it fell under mental illness. The fact that I did, or may not have adapted, is irrelevant according to your arguments. You avoid the questions concerning maintaining ones mental health, do you not consider them important or relevant? I'm not a big fan of the term 'mental health'. I'm using the common definitions used by the DSM and all the other fellows there. As a philosophical pessimist, I'm all for suicide and extinction. So I'd rather not judge what is 'mentally healthy' but yes, people should work on that. In general, 'mental illness' doesn't contain in its definition the inability to recover. There are arguments about that, but it's not inside the word itself. You can be mentally ill and recover. My main point was that suffering because of mental illness is a different kind than physical suffering. It's something more abstract, harder to describe that affects your whole experience of being. So telling people to just get up and do something isn't exactly helpful. It's not like when you're poor, where you need help in how to make money. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
Ichilicious said: I speak for myself when I say this. But I believe mental illness is real. Whether or not it's science, spiritual, or philosophical is another matter entirely. How can mental illness be a philosophical thing? |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
| People likes to exaggerate. That's what i think. |
 |
Psajdak said: I don't know if it is mental illness, but my memory is really, really bad, as well as spatial awareness. And it makes my life harder than it is. That's more of a disability. Mental illness refers less to specific skills, and more to general problems with the whole experience of being. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
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