| You know those characters who are perfect are everything they do, are insanely attractive, are badass and cool as F*** and have everyone flocking to their knees in love and appreciation and are in general PERFECT in every way. For me it was cool at first to see such amazing characters being badasses and owning everything and all. but after a while of constant animes after animes of the same perfect mc's that makes you feel inadequate, I am getting tired of over-the-top op characters. It would be soo refreshing for a character to have a few flaws ( still competent ) and isn't too perfect all the time so more people could relate. . Do you agree? what are your thoughts? |
TeyzoneApr 22, 2017 9:13 AM
| im more tired of those retard brainless mcs who can't chose the best girl |
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| Surely... That OP.. Shitty Gary Stu.. Kirito with zero yet NEGATIVE DEVELOPMENT fits here.. Getting sicked of this crappy character already.. But some casuals Love it.. Blah Blah blah.. Le'ts just say that Sandwich-kun.. is the victor he're xD |
-HippySnob-Apr 21, 2017 9:46 AM
 "Think about that glowing dust That destroys the night sky's dream of Just being nothing"--  -- |
| not really.. both because they are not that common, and because i'm ok with this trope my initial thought when reading the title was Special A, which i think did the perfect character thing very nicely or Sakamoto kun who is really cool :D wish you'd give some examples too though maybe you should avoid action genre in the future.. |
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tragedydesu said: This guy knows what he's talking about. The latest example of a dumbass like this would be Masamune's Revenge. Neko is clearly top waifu material.im more tired of those retard brainless mcs who can't chose the best girl |
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| What? Is this even this common? I see such MCs very rarely. Watch better anime or sth. |
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| I do agree that flawless MC are boring, I'll always prefer some bratty teen to the ones like Jesus Onii-sama Tatsuya. |
| You're talking about Gary Stus/Mary Sues and yes, plenty of us are sick of them. They are a major point of poor writing. The self-insert aspect of these characters appeal to a lot of people who watch anime. The anime fan base has no shortage of the quiet and socially awkward types (a Japanese archetype in the 21st century), so here anime comes along and these people get to become badasses by living vicariously through the protagonist. |
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| By what seems to be the current definition, every MC who isn't glaringly incompetent or doesn't suffer to absurd lengths is just called a perfect MC and has all of the traits listed in the first sentence of the OP wrongfully ascribed to them, so I don't really give a shit one way or the other. But even brushing that aside, I'd rather have somebody who's hypercompetent and beloved by all, i.e. a Tatsuya Shiba type MC, over some whiny twat like Subaru. So meh. |
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if you mean characters like Sakamoto  then no not really considering I don't really watch shows like that |
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| yeah fuck those characters, wimpy whiny MCs are the best |
| So, most trashy light novels really. Most MCs there are just stupid self inserts for fourteen-year-olds who want to be super cool and perfect |
| As long as the character isn't a degenerate I'm fine with it. Though I don't think that trope is very common it seems a lot of popular anime have a character like that so I can see why you would think it's common. |
when ur about to have a refreshing sip of earl grey tea and someone says "traps are gay" |
fuyuki said: What? Is this even this common? I see such MCs very rarely. Watch better anime or sth. They are really common and annoying. The best way to avoid that bs is CGDCT in an all girl universe :3 |
| I don't know, apart of Kirito and Onii-sama, I haven't watched those much series with Gary Stu MC. |
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| A week ago people where complaining about those so called 'beta' MCs and that anime has way too many of them. Now this. Anime community is a very awesome community. |
| They suck unless that's somehow part of a joke. |
| No. If the staff knows how to create interesting battles from overpowered MCs, I strongly promote the idea actually. |
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zumac said: DAE le anime community is a single person? xD xD fuk this "people" person amiriteA week ago people where complaining about those so called 'beta' MCs and that anime has way too many of them. Now this. Anime community is a very awesome community. |
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| Still better than very oblivious MC who is allergic to the body of girl |
 (っ◔◡◔)っ 𝓘 𝔀𝓲𝓼𝓱 𝔂𝓸𝓾 𝓪𝓵𝓵 𝓱𝓪𝓿𝓮 𝓪 𝔀𝓸𝓷𝓭𝓮𝓻𝓯𝓾𝓵 𝓭𝓪𝔂 ♥ |
| tbh even more mainstream are the mc that can't do a thing. I guess both are okay as long as there's proper development. I mean: they don't completely stay the way they were. |
OneNaughtyBear said: tragedydesu said: This guy knows what he's talking about. The latest example of a dumbass like this would be Masamune's Revenge. Neko is clearly top waifu material.im more tired of those retard brainless mcs who can't chose the best girl true , she was the best waifu in this serie  |
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| This wave of nigh-flawless male LN protags feels like a response to the old prototypical "wimpy-loser-MC surrounded by hot woman" cliche that was once popular. Honestly, both extremes are fucking stupid and offputting. Is it that hard for authors to write good characters without resorting to some form of pandering? |
romagia said: zumac said: DAE le anime community is a single person? xD xD fuk this "people" person amiriteA week ago people where complaining about those so called 'beta' MCs and that anime has way too many of them. Now this. Anime community is a very awesome community. Alot of them were complaining, not just a single person. Writing like an idiot doesn't make you cooler, sorry fam. |
| I dislike beta male characters that cries over everything (unless they have a decent back story and great development, for example Simon, from Gurren lagann, he was a bit coward at first, but then he becomes a complete badass) about perfect characters, if they act like they are gods or feel superior over everything I tend to hate them. But if they are perfect, but complains to be perfect (Like Saiki Kunio) then that's completely different |
| "We could make the world better, but it's easier to just shut our eyes." ~Blackwall |
| Next week: "Is anyone else getting tired of beta male MCs?" |
zumac said: cant tell how deliberate it was, butromagia said: DAE le anime community is a single person? xD xD fuk this "people" person amirite Alot of them were complaining, not just a single person. Writing like an idiot doesn't make you cooler, sorry fam.  |
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Cirno9 said: fuyuki said: What? Is this even this common? I see such MCs very rarely. Watch better anime or sth. They are really common and annoying. The best way to avoid that bs is CGDCT in an all girl universe :3 This guy knows what he's talking about. |
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| I wonder where op noticed this Gary Stu epidemic. Apart from Kirito and Onii sama, there is hardly any. And no, comedy anime doesn't count. |
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| Next week you will see someone whining about weak ass useless mc's, circle of life. |
 |
Sakamoto is about to school you on the art of super perfect mc's |
No drop crew, Loyal husband, sadomasochist, H&E bully, AWC fan. Click sig for n00dz!  |
| Then Re:Zero is the perfect anime for you. |
Deknijff said: if you mean characters like Sakamoto then no not really considering I don't really watch shows like that shit you beat me to it xD guess i should have checked comments before making my comment |
No drop crew, Loyal husband, sadomasochist, H&E bully, AWC fan. Click sig for n00dz! |
antonn said: Next week: "Is anyone else getting tired of beta male MCs?" You have missed it already. Probably gonna be a thread like this anyway again. |
| I can't think of an anime with perfect mc from the recent ones i watched. Are they so popular? |
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tragedydesu said: OneNaughtyBear said: This guy knows what he's talking about. The latest example of a dumbass like this would be Masamune's Revenge. Neko is clearly top waifu material. true , she was the best waifu in this serie tbh I think Neko is the real winner so I don't mind at all I mean she didn't end up with Masamune that's the real victory in this particular case |
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antonn said: Next week: "Is anyone else getting tired of beta male MCs?" So something like this? You know those characters who are hopeless at everything they do; are very unpopular, wimpy and useless as F*** and is totally dependent on another character. For me it was cool at first to see such hopeless characters flounder through a series with their copious amounts of character flaws, but after a while of constant anime after anime of the same hopeless mc's that makes you cringe, I am getting tired of beta male MCs. It would be soo refreshing for a character to have less flaws so more people could relate. Do you agree? what are your thoughts? |
SomeEdgeLord said: I WILL report you from this forum if this continues. In real life, I am one of the coldest, unsympathetic, people you'll ever know, who's grown up in an even colder household, you really don't want me to break my persona, I know how to make people feel bad. YearnsforAttention said: hm who has 1656 friends on MAL that's right me bye bye YearnsforAttention said: I don't want your approval how many damn times do I need to say it I enjoy irritating you I am gonna do things MY way |
| @Manaban i appreciate that the author tried to give him a different personality from your typical beta mcs but he failed that mc have a shitty personality ,also his motivation to get revenge is so stupid even that he is a bad mc , i wanted to see neko happy with the one she loves :/ |
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NoobAsian said: antonn said: Next week: "Is anyone else getting tired of beta male MCs?" So something like this? You know those characters who are hopeless at everything they do; are very unpopular, wimpy and useless as F*** and is totally dependent on another character. For me it was cool at first to see such hopeless characters flounder through a series with their copious amounts of character flaws, but after a while of constant anime after anime of the same hopeless mc's that makes you cringe, I am getting tired of beta male MCs. It would be soo refreshing for a character to have less flaws so more people could relate. Do you agree? what are your thoughts? Well who/what else are loser beta ass otaku males in Japan are going to relate to then? |
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Manaban said: By what seems to be the current definition, every MC who isn't glaringly incompetent or doesn't suffer to absurd lengths is just called a perfect MC and has all of the traits listed in the first sentence of the OP wrongfully ascribed to them, so I don't really give a shit one way or the other. But even brushing that aside, I'd rather have somebody who's hypercompetent and beloved by all, i.e. a Tatsuya Shiba type MC, over some whiny twat like Subaru. So meh. Interesting... The assumption in the community is that any competent character gets immediate flak. Just purely out of curiosity, has these two ever received a lot of flak?   The anime they are in (Log Horizon and Hibike! Euphonium, respectively) are fairly recent and popular. And they are more than competent. |
 You gave up your freedom of speech when you clicked Agree to the User Agreement This is not a public platform. My gaze is the measure of all things: I stopped considering "anime" a helpful tag Recommended Essays Exploring Actually Excellent World-Building |
le_halfhand_easy said: Manaban said: By what seems to be the current definition, every MC who isn't glaringly incompetent or doesn't suffer to absurd lengths is just called a perfect MC and has all of the traits listed in the first sentence of the OP wrongfully ascribed to them, so I don't really give a shit one way or the other. But even brushing that aside, I'd rather have somebody who's hypercompetent and beloved by all, i.e. a Tatsuya Shiba type MC, over some whiny twat like Subaru. So meh. Interesting... The assumption in the community is that any competent character gets immediate flak. Just purely out of curiosity, has these two ever received a lot of flak? The anime they are in (Log Horizon and Hibike! Euphonium, respectively) are fairly recent and popular. And they are more than competent. Mm, not that I'm aware of. The derision of the complaint in general, at least on my end, is under the impression that many people merely apply it to stuff they dislike while willfully ignoring it in cases like Log Horizon - I can't speak for Hibeki Euphonium or the example you brought up simply because I haven't seen it and therefore know nothing about it, but if I were to attempt to enter the mindset of what I perceive to be the twisted definition of Mary Sue/Gary Stu, then I have little doubt that Shiro could be called a Gary Stu, and this is exactly the sort of thing I'm trying to poke at. Just as a disclaimer, I personally find the standards I'm applying to Shiroe here to label him a Gary Stu to be a stretch, but just thinking about it from the perspective of a Gary Stu being this unbeatable, flawless individual who has girls falling all over him and all of that, he does kind of fall into that category. He's got a calculating and calm demeanor and plans things out to absurd degrees that seem unfeasible for the average person his age and is able to kickstart a government and an economy all by himself, he's got more than one girl with romantic interest in him, and I cannot think of a single moment where he had a significant shortcoming he wasn't able to overcome or any sort of struggle or character flaw explored in a way that felt geniune and took away from the idea that he's this undefeatable strategist. And despite being this nice guy who does little wrong and helps people in that world more than anyone else, he's still said to be viewed in a negative light by many as this demonic logical strategist or something. That's just coming from somebody who's only seen the first season of the anime and hasn't looked into the source material at all, so keep that in mind and anything that happened past the end of S1 is currently unknown to me. But yeah. If I look at it from that lens, how come there aren't more complaints about Shiroe being a Gary Stu? He fits the checklist people seem to like to apply, yet you're not wrong at all when you say that people don't complain about him nearly to the extent of others that fit the same criteria, more or less. Stuff exactly like this is why it feels incredibly inconsistent in application to me. People like Log Horizon and it underplays these themes compared to something like SAO I do feel like, but...they're still present. Maybe that makes it easier for people to forgive in this case, idk. I don't really understand it much and I wouldn't be opposed at all to a counter-argument here. |
ManabanApr 21, 2017 1:39 PM
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Manaban said: Mm, not that I'm aware of. The derision of the complaint in general, at least on my end, is under the impression that many people merely apply it to stuff they dislike while willfully ignoring it in cases like Log Horizon - I can't speak for Hibeki Euphonium because I haven't seen it, but if I were to attempt to enter the mindset of what I perceive to be the twisted definition of Mary Sue/Gary Stu, then I have little doubt that Shiro could be called a Gary Stu, and this is exactly the sort of thing I'm trying to poke at. Just as a disclaimer, I personally do not find it to be the case and I do like the character, but just think about it: He's got a calculating and calm demeanor and plans things out to absurd degrees that seem unfeasible for the average person his age, he's got more than one girl with romantic interest in him, and I cannot think of a single moment where he had a significant shortcoming he wasn't able to overcome or any sort of struggle or character flaw explored in a way that felt geniune and took away from the idea that he's this undefeatable strategist. That's just coming from somebody who's only seen the first season of the anime and hasn't looked into the source material at all, so keep that in mind and anything that happened past the end of S1 is currently unknown to me. But yeah. If I look at it from that lens, how come there aren't more complaints about Shiroe being a Gary Stu? He fits the checklist people seem to like to apply, yet you're not wrong at all when you say that people don't complain about him. Stuff exactly like this is why it feels incredibly inconsistent in application to me. People like Log Horizon and it underplays these themes compared to something like SAO I do feel like, but...they're still present. Maybe that makes it easier for people to forgive in this case, idk. Shiroe has a fairly obvious nuanced flaw actually, exploited in Season 2. He lacks communication skills. Often he makes plans and expects others to follow it through without telling them more on the what, how, and why. He often unknowingly keeps his allies on the dark which leads to problems since he doesn't know everything and when something goes wrong they have to constantly turn to him. They can't help him even when they know how to because he keeps them at bay. |
You gave up your freedom of speech when you clicked Agree to the User Agreement This is not a public platform. My gaze is the measure of all things: I stopped considering "anime" a helpful tag Recommended Essays Exploring Actually Excellent World-Building |
le_halfhand_easy said: Manaban said: Mm, not that I'm aware of. The derision of the complaint in general, at least on my end, is under the impression that many people merely apply it to stuff they dislike while willfully ignoring it in cases like Log Horizon - I can't speak for Hibeki Euphonium because I haven't seen it, but if I were to attempt to enter the mindset of what I perceive to be the twisted definition of Mary Sue/Gary Stu, then I have little doubt that Shiro could be called a Gary Stu, and this is exactly the sort of thing I'm trying to poke at. Just as a disclaimer, I personally do not find it to be the case and I do like the character, but just think about it: He's got a calculating and calm demeanor and plans things out to absurd degrees that seem unfeasible for the average person his age, he's got more than one girl with romantic interest in him, and I cannot think of a single moment where he had a significant shortcoming he wasn't able to overcome or any sort of struggle or character flaw explored in a way that felt geniune and took away from the idea that he's this undefeatable strategist. That's just coming from somebody who's only seen the first season of the anime and hasn't looked into the source material at all, so keep that in mind and anything that happened past the end of S1 is currently unknown to me. But yeah. If I look at it from that lens, how come there aren't more complaints about Shiroe being a Gary Stu? He fits the checklist people seem to like to apply, yet you're not wrong at all when you say that people don't complain about him. Stuff exactly like this is why it feels incredibly inconsistent in application to me. People like Log Horizon and it underplays these themes compared to something like SAO I do feel like, but...they're still present. Maybe that makes it easier for people to forgive in this case, idk. Shiroe has a fairly obvious nuanced flaw actually, exploited in Season 2. He lacks communication skills. Often he makes plans and expects others to follow it through without telling them more on the what, how, and why. He often unknowingly keeps his allies on the dark which leads to problems since he doesn't know everything and when something goes wrong they have to constantly turn to him. Taking this into consideration, then, what about Tatsuya Shiba? He's presented as somebody with generally poor communication skills as well. Robotic, incredibly logical and unfeeling towards anybody except his younger sister - or so it attempts to convey to the audience at isolated instances, rather, but that is the flaw it tries to play up for him on numerous occasions, but when it comes to being put into question of how he interacts with the characters around him it never comes into fruition, or at least it never felt that way to me. Unless it goes into absolute spoiler territory - at which point I won't want to hear it simply because I do want to look into the 2nd season at some point, so if you want to argue that point and it requires being spoiler-y put it in spoilers for me or something xD - if Tatsuya Shiba's ascribed flaw of being robotic and poor at communication fails in application, what does LH make it do to not fail in Shiro's case? Anything can state something, but what can be a make-or-break factor is how it goes in application. And I'll be honest, I'm just rolling with the flow here and giving you the benefit of the doubt because you brought it up as an S2 thing here, and I can't think of any instances where it seemed like he had communication issues in S1. |
ManabanApr 21, 2017 1:49 PM
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antonn said: Next week: "Is anyone else getting tired of beta male MCs?" Let me correct you antonn "Is anyone else getting tired of oblivious male MCS" |
 |
| @Manaban I think it's fairly interwoven with the events of the final episode and going into the 2nd season. I think during the burger arc it also played a part during his maneuvers against the crafting guilds. Not a very big one, I'm afraid. |
You gave up your freedom of speech when you clicked Agree to the User Agreement This is not a public platform. My gaze is the measure of all things: I stopped considering "anime" a helpful tag Recommended Essays Exploring Actually Excellent World-Building |
| Meh. I more tried super generic looking MC who gets the most or even the entire female cast to fall madly in love with him. |
| Well, if the show is written in a way, where it makes sense for the MC to be perfect, it's all fine by me... |
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