Anime Studios Financial Data

Isterio said:


While that´s true it doesn´t come close to the atrocities that Toei pulls off with One Piece and Dragon Ball just because while not delivering any quality animation for One Piece since a decade and only occasionally for DBS and nothing that can live up to the best Dragon Ball Z has delivered.

You can put up the best momments of DBZ with the best momments of Naruto from an animation standpoint alone, alongside each other and be impressed, wether or not you know about animation or not.

Modern Toei on the other hand, managed to perfect the art of bad animation. Still frames, with terrible line work, non existant, washed out backrounds and botched character designs that´d make Pain blush. No matter how you put it, from an artistic standpoint, Toei is just lazy and greedy. And I understand that they put their talented animators to work on the OVAs and Movies. which do look gorgeous with a few screuwups, but there are still better looking Movies out there and they haven´t delivered anything yet to reach certain flight Animations Dragon Ball Z shit out during it´s regular run.

HamburgerSpike said:

Inexperience and arrogance.

@bigivelfhq if this amv is the best you can get from a 73 episodes show, thats just sad. Its mostly really mediocre quality, try watching any random OPM or Mob related vid and youll see. As for examples like I said earlier there are thousands of compilations showing just how bad Toei's animation is, im not gonna link them all since thats common knowledge.
I guess youre the kinda guy who wouldnt agree with me without a gun next to his head. Have a nice day believing the Earth is flat.

Z4k said:

Could you post an example of those horrible close ups? It can't have been worse than what Toei does with DBS or the entire Dressrosa arc in One Piece.

Also about Naruto, I'm honestly baffled you think the direction and cinematography is worse than DBS and One Piece there. There's so many well directed episodes there that if you'd want, I could make a huge list out of them while I couldn't say the same for DBS or One Piece even though it has their fair share of good moments.

bigivelfhq said:

Still frames is a cinematorgraphic technique, are you telling that is worse than what I'm telling here? Are you saying that a simple shortcut that is easily processed by your brain and understood is worse than something that can possible hurt you in a physical way?

The rest is something that shouldn't be discussed here!

Isterio said:


It´s no secret that Toei doesn´t care about their animation quality anymore. If you want to see actuall good animation from Toei. Watch some of DBZ Movies or go rewatch DBZ. You´ll be surprised what it had in store during it´s best momments.

The openings speak for themselves. Nonetheless according to rumors I don´t remember who said it here on the forums Toei is the best paying animation Studio in Japan which is commendable and they mainly struggle with their animation because no sane person wants to enter that industry anymore.
Which is why you´re mostly left with Otaku as animators with the urge of drawing cute girls and nothing else to hire.

There are a few documanteries on the subject. But basicly when Miyazaki said Anime was a mistake he meant because of those people.

Isterio said:


From an artistic standpoint yes. If getting hurt is a requirement for the Art to be delivered in the way the artist created it to be it´s better than the missusage of a cinematographic tool.

For example, if you´re watching a stand up comedian and one of his skits involves an audience member getting slapped to the face, the comedy was delivered by inflicting physical pain to the specific audience member, while making him and everyone observing it laugh!
Wether or not it was funny is subjective and to be decided by the individual.

On the other hand openly misshandling an established artistic tool because you´re too cheap or too lazy is a crime against the arts.

What Toei does is equivalent to replacing a prop in a theatre play with an mundane item.
Why build a papier mâché sword and paint it if you can just use a stick of wood.

This is what Toei does! Toei´s animation is garbage, definately worse than Pierrot by today´s standards and if you say otherwise you´re lying to yourself and everyone you´re trying to convince.

Yes Disney is the best for a good reason and Animation isn´t about consistent movement, but about anything involved. Creativity, coloring, complexity of design and how natural the movement is all play a role.

There is a reason hentai artists do their research by watching porn and Tetsuya Nomura watched Disney Movies for a year before creating Kingdom hearts 1.

bigivelfhq said:

So much misinformation!

It is not rumours, it was me and it had trustworthy sources, that talked in detail about various companies average salaries, with Toei Animation being the best one!

The Miyazaki and Otaku animators surge drawing cute girls hasn't to do with Toei Animation, because Toei Animation doesn't do stuff for Otakus, excepting some infrequent occasions.

The closest people to be related to that phenomenon of Otakus drawing to Otakus in Toei Animation is Izumi Todo, that is the collective pseudonym of workers in Toei that does Original Girl Anime works.

bigivelfhq said:
Disney, again, talked a lot about how the illusion of life and movement, is not achieved by providing how things are seen in nature, but by exaggeration. And it was in that way that the "Squash and stretch" turned into a major principle of animation. One that is rarely used well, purposely, in anime.

I recommend you to go read the book, by one of the great animators of Disney, "The Animator's Survival Kit - Richard Williams " -> Here is the site: http://www.theanimatorssurvivalkit.com/

Isterio said:


1. Good for you on that one and probs for Toei for being at least decent to their workers. I heard Pierrot pays decent too, though decent is a stretch since animators get paid terrible wage no matter where they work, if they aren´t big names in the industry.

2. I am aware of Toei not producing inherently Otaku pandering material, nonetheless I´m also aware of Robin´s and Namis changing bust sizes and no this is not parallel to the Manga. In the Anime they go through way more transformations back and forth and I´m also aware of where the focus in the animation goes whenever there is a Rebecca scene ,who also had a severe case of breast implants being shoved in an out of her chest.

Don´t lie, if you know half as much about animation as you pretend you noticed too! The scene where Luffy lies on top of Rebecca and pins her down became infamous among the community for a while.

So please, don´t come at me with all that bullshit about being missinformed. Furthermore, I´m not saying that Toei is an Otaku pandering company like Gainax or Kyoto Animation, but the industry as a whole is plagued by an overabundance of Otaku with onesided ambitions and interests which Toei has to deal with as well.

ichii_1 said:


If you want to intimidate life you don't take inspiration from life? that's contradictory and everything not based on reality already involves exaggeration.

Most of those aren't animation either, that's directing.

bigivelfhq said:


Wow, such authoritative and absolutist way or argument! It totally makes your argument valid and correct ... it doesn't! And not to talk about how little justifications and evidences you provided within your arguments, making them literally useless.

LOL, are you really saying that Pierrot directing decision in those cases was an artistic decision with the purpose of inflicting physical harm to the audience? LOL, they are such great artists! Though it didn't worked as well as OLM with their Pokemon antic. So I would say that due to the effect it did it was just mediocre xD

"Toei's animation is garbage"
"If you say otherwise than your ..." such great argumentation, you totally convinced me and anybody reading your argument. Such excellent eloquence. You earned a devoted fan!

Nope, animation is not about anything involved!
- Animation is not Creativity(Though Animation can be creative).
- Animation is not the Coloring.
- Animation is not the Complexity of design. And what are you talking about "complexity" of design? What? Complexity of something is not a good thing. And specially of Design. Where simple is the best. Do you know who were the people that focused in simple designs, and talking a lot about characters being able to be recognizable just by their silhouettes? You guessed it right, Disney!
- Animation is not about how natural the movement is. Disney, again, talked a lot about how the illusion of life and movement, is not achieved by providing how things are seen in nature, but by exaggeration. And it was in that way that the "Squash and stretch" turned into a major principle of animation. One that is rarely used well, purposely, in anime.

I recommend you to go read the book, by one of the great animators of Disney, "The Animator's Survival Kit - Richard Williams " -> Here is the site: http://www.theanimatorssurvivalkit.com/

bigivelfhq said:


Yep, cute girls/Moe is totally the same thing as Big Boobs, Ecchi and Fanservice(ecchi oriented). They are totally the same thing.

Isterio said:
stuff

Isterio said:


http://www.dictionary.com/browse/cute

bigivelfhq said:


Now you're just embarrassing yourself!

HamburgerSpike said:

I havent said a single word about my subjective believes. Im just stating facts about studios and their works by production value. Pierrot did Bleach which was far less popular but far better animated than both DBS and One Piece. Naruto also has better animation for the most part. Comparing them with something like Bones is just intimidating. Their shows look thousand times better and they are an ant compared to Toei.
The fact that people buy it just shows how good the source material was and how low their standards are.

bigivelfhq said:


"i too still outraged on how they handle world triger animation which is lot worse than DBS and OP combined..."

Kuma said:

if we are focusing on sakuga, WT is one of best... i heard they even hired wepon expert to help them give realistic weapon effect... the problem is that other than sakuga, this series animation does worse than DBS and OP... expecially when they are on dialogue and daily life which unlike most battle shounen, it has lot portion in WT...

bigivelfhq said:


I wasn't focusing in Sakuga. Not all of that video is sakuga. I would as far to say that most of it, isn't, in fact.

When they are in dialogue and daily life the series normally uses the level of limited animation shortcuts of Neon Genesis Evangelion. In Fact I say that Evangelion does certainly worse.
You probably are talking of art, not animation. Probably, talking of the not aesthetically pleasing faces and other drawings. That though is not animation! And World Trigger varied greatly.
There was certainly someone that didn't know how to draw correctly Osamu's face, it like he was using a ruler for it, and someone that knew to draw it amazingly well, so good that was better than in the manga.





Instead of calling animation to drawing/art, it would be cool to talk about art in a specific topic. Create a thread about that and I we can talk about that.